Guild Wars 2

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Toxsa.2701:

Justine.6351:

Read the Wind does NOT affect longbow max range. Go test it.

And btw ele 1500 range projectiles do not even come close to the rangers 1500 longbow skills.

But this is ranger forum so lols expect to get shutdown when you try speaking these things.

I can confirm that, tested it in the mist awhile ago. RtW does not increase the range a single bit.
Also people saying those magic 2100~2300 range is outright lying too lol..

lol never staid RtW increases range , its the combination of Height+Velocity that increases Range and the Height being the bigger Benifactor , the velocity is only 25% of the total sum .

i can’t be bothered with Defined specs though it is bigger the drop the further the arrow falls increasing its distance between the firer and the range the projectile travels.

the only thing the Velocity does is push the drop off point further away and without the height it will go no further than 1725yards.

I’m not talking about you, just saying those ranger haters always lie about the range stuff, exaggerating things like 2100~2300 range, and lying about RtW makes the arrow flys even further.

Gryph.8237:

Toxsa.2701:

Gryph.8237:

I play a necro and I admit that I hate rangers in Wvw, because I can simply do nothing against a well played power necro, when I cannot close the distance, especially if I have low life force. That said, who saw a lot of rangers on winning teams in the tournament? no? why is that? please tell me…

likely its the same thing for necros, we simply are not viable at high ranks of play, because its target the necro/ranger and watch them die.

Well, at least in group fight, you do insane AOE damages that a ranger can NEVER EVER IMAGINE, like 25~35k damage per seconds (5 targets). Don’t always look at the down side, necro is pretty good in WvW.

Also your condition dire spec is one of the strongest duelers out there (with full death shroud), that even 2 of the strongest roaming classes (condition engi and condition thief) fears to fight you up front. My power ranger really really fear condition necro in WvW because just if I fail to dodge one combo, I’m a goner, yet you guys are so tanky that it takes quite abit of time to chip down that death shroud.

I feel you man, I play a condi dire necro, because i got bored of being a power necro in the zerg. its boring, so i went back to condi roaming. That said, i am a decent condi necro, and pretty tough in a 1 v 1. that said, there are some power rangers that just owen me if they get the drop on me, i don’t have full life force, or i miss my dodges as you said. I have never had anything against rangers, as they are good at what they do in wvw. I was saying that in pvp, they are limited because like the necro, they don’t have that get out of dodge free card which is the block, invuln, stealth, combo that most of the meta high level pvp classes bring to the game. our classes don’t have that, so we don’t see it in high level pvp play.

I kinda edited my earlier posts abit so it makes more sense XD. Necro lacks the “oh kitten” bottom like stealth or invulnerable or movement skills, so they either have to win the fight or face the consequence XD.

Gryph.8237:

I play a necro and I admit that I hate rangers in Wvw, because I can simply do nothing against a well played power necro, when I cannot close the distance, especially if I have low life force. That said, who saw a lot of rangers on winning teams in the tournament? no? why is that? please tell me…

likely its the same thing for necros, we simply are not viable at high ranks of play, because its target the necro/ranger and watch them die.

Well, at least in group fight, you do insane AOE damages that a ranger can NEVER EVER IMAGINE, like 25~35k damage per seconds (5 targets). Don’t always look at the down side, necro is pretty good in WvW.

Also your condition dire spec is one of the strongest duelers out there (with full death shroud), that even 2 of the strongest roaming classes (condition engi and condition thief) fears to fight you up front. My power ranger really really fear condition necro in WvW because just if I fail to dodge one combo, I’m a goner, yet you guys are so tanky that it takes quite abit of time to chip down that death shroud. The only down side of condition necro is that it’s very vulnerable against outnumber fights, and don’t have many ways to escape. (like stealth, movement skill), that’s why not many people like to roam with necro. It’s either “I win 1 v 1” or “I can’t escape 2+ v 1”

Jim Hunter.6821:

Spirigo.2897:

They provide AoE cripple, lots of damage and knock backs from hard to reach locations while more resilient members of their team prevent the point from being taken by the enemy.

I thought they only pressed 1 & 2…

Don’t bother talking to him. He’s just some random thief who got owned by rapid fire and come here to cry how brainless and powerful power ranger is., yet he refuses to use this “so OP and easy spec” because he knows it’s not good, yet he wants his thief to have some easy time against rangers.

Spirigo.2897:

^ Whataboutism intensifies.

Because I can take ranger and destroy decently skilled people playing meta builds by pressing 2 buttons or just from auto.

Yes I’d rather have no Rangers than 2300 range botting simulator that we have now. In fact, I’d just remove the current conquest crap with its idiotic meta from the game and replace it with something similar to GvG or HA from the old game.

No point arguing with the likes of you. You basically discredit everything that you mentioned, with full of lies and exaggeration about rangers, even though you don’t really play PVP at all.

Spirigo.2897:

They provide AoE cripple, lots of damage and knock backs from hard to reach locations while more resilient members of their team prevent the point from being taken by the enemy.

Necros can do that too but slower and from a shorter range. Lack of mobility and stealth means they will fall to pressure rather easily and Engineers are better off in the thick of things tbh.

With ranger, just stand back, pewpew and win. If you can’t do that… Well, it’s a l2p™ issue lol.

Good that you’re comparing to a least played profession in tournament. Yeah ranger is not the worst, but not in top 5 either. Donnu why Ele, Guardian, Warrior, Elementalist, Thief are off your list of “to nerf” even though they’re more popular and defines the meta. Even with all the “OP stuffs” you mentioned, ranger still doesn’t come close to any of the 5 meta professions. So I seriously don’t know what’s so OP about ranger when there’re 5 more OP professions ahead of it. If all professions are OP, then no professions are OP.

Guess people seriously hold grudge for ranger and expect it to be trash tier. They only want 6 professions to exist, while other 2 (ranger and necro) should just go into toilet and be useless.

Justine.6351:

Read the Wind does NOT affect longbow max range. Go test it.

And btw ele 1500 range projectiles do not even come close to the rangers 1500 longbow skills.

But this is ranger forum so lols expect to get shutdown when you try speaking these things.

I can confirm that, tested it in the mist awhile ago. RtW does not increase the range a single bit.
Also people saying those magic 2100~2300 range is outright lying too lol..

Naix.8156:

I agree with OP here, this skill should be doing more damage and also have a trait that provides an untelegraphed proc to it as well. I’m thinking something fun with zero counter play; something like Chill of Death.

TBH power ranger needs to be in pvp as its too difficult for new players to do this type of damage in melee range where its dangerous. No sense getting in close to land that backstab when you can do it safely from orbit. Keep pew pew my friends.

That’s exactly why newcomers often ruin the match, because all they do is use range off node point, dragging the fight forever while foes contesting the node lol…

Spirigo.2897:

Compare how easy it is to play pewpew Ranger and how effective it is at what it does to any other build. Just do it.

Without range defense or gapclosers you are basically kittened. You need to close the gap and pressure them out of their escapes.

Again, start queing up already and make a video about it and we’ll believe you. Using Hot-Join as an example is poor excuse. I can 100% guaranteed shout-bow War and Engineer, are way easier to play to be effective, even to a relatively new people.

Spirigo.2897:

Because that weak build is annoying as hell to play against, and is not the only such build that sees the light of day frequently. Coupled with the fact that Conquest is a kitten game mode and that some maps like Suckhammer make it even more kitten leads to people leaving. The PvP community that surged into this game at the start expecting greatness left with the words “It’s imbalanced skillspam” for the greener pastures as a result.

It’s not uncommon to see balance patches applied to characters in LoL or Dota2 that make no sense when applied solely to competetive play, but have to be done because the said character can abuse certain pub nuances.

And for the record, yes a power Ranger pewpewing from high ground with no regard for objectives or team mates is also extremely annoying to have on your team. I don’t see how it redeems that build in any way.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Spirigo.2897:

None of the above changes the fact that it’s broken when coupled with easy of play, damage and escape tools.

A build doesn’t have to be good in competetive play or win 1v1 against comp meta to be toxic. Power Rangers abuse lack of organization in soloq too well, at minimal risk and requiring minimal skill.

But you are right saying that in some aspect, every build is toxic and annoying in some way or another, which is one of the reasons why GW2 never took of as esports.

Funny to see Ranger mains trying to prove their easy mode button is alright.

^says ranger’s are easy to kill, still calls rangers easy mode….

Sounds to me like you are getting your kitten handed to you by rangers but you are to embarrassed to admit it.

I can get more out of spamming two buttons than any other class so in that sense of course it’s easy mode. If you dont know what to do against one or get caught out, it’s annoying. If you do know what to do and don’t get caught out, it’s a matter of them delaying the inevitable in the most annoying ways possible.

Yeah, everyone can click 2 bottoms, just like playing a Warrior, Guardian, thief and so on. But clicking 2 bottoms doesn’t make you successful, and same goes with power ranger. Clicking more bottom also doesn’t make a class “difficult to play”, for example, engineer is one of the easiest classes to play in PVP. It clicks alot of bottoms but it doesn’t make it any more difficult to be successful. Clicking 2 bottoms are just one perspective of the game-play, because you completely ignore how people try using CC, good positioning, accurate dodges to survive all attacks, so that they can stay on field to dish this “2 bottoms” damage.

Stop making excuses and start queing up already. Show us a video of you doing well in rank que as power ranger then we’ll believe you.

Spirigo.2897:

None of the above changes the fact that it’s broken when coupled with easy of play, damage and escape tools.

A build doesn’t have to be good in competetive play or win 1v1 against comp meta to be toxic. Power Rangers abuse lack of organization in soloq too well, at minimal risk and requiring minimal skill.

But you are right saying that in some aspect, every build is toxic and annoying in some way or another, which is one of the reasons why GW2 never took of as esports.

Funny to see Ranger mains trying to prove their easy mode button is alright.

GW2 never make it to E-sport because many people will QQ about a weak build and leave the 10 times stronger one alone. Also please start queing up already as power ranger in rank que and see how “easy and no skill” it is to be successful. When you lose as a power ranger, I hope you don’t start blaming your teammates for being useless, because you’re probably the reason for the lost because you’re playing a power ranger.

Even melee weapons go beyond their tooltip range lol.
It shows red, but you can actually hit targets if you just manually swing it.
Also Warrior LB, thief SB, all hit further than tooltip. Donnu why people always ignore that fact and only pin-point on ranger.

Simple solution, revert immobolize so it’s unstackable..
Now it’s the most broken condition, and some classes are absolutely broken because they have access to permanent immobolize stacking..

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

I play ranger, but its not my main class.
I don’t see how you can all defend this longbow spec so much.

Because it’s relatively weak, and miles away from meta builds like celestial ele, shoutbow, mediation Guardian, engineers, zerk mesmer, thieves and so on?

I seriously don’t get how can people QQ about such a weak spec, yet leaving those 10 times stronger “meta builds” alone. Are we playing the same game? Do you guys only play Hot Join or something?

Rezzet.3614:

Toxsa.2701:

Rezzet.3614:

thats the beauty of what i say its all accomplished by simply traiting 4/6/x/x/x

the wolf fear maybe telegraphed but its a garanteed hit if the wolf doesnt fear the target it ll knock it and if it doesnt the ranger will or the ranger will knock the target then have the wolf unleash its fear and knock and how exactly do you apply blind to a target 2000 range away while his pets cc you and all skills in game except a select few have a max of 1200 range , entangle damage isnt what makes it insanely strong is that its a 10s immobilize elite with 60s cooldown most elites ingame have 2 minute cooldowns and dont do anything nearly kitten effective maybe mesmer moa morph and thats about it .

the so perfect build you think i described is nothing more than longbow and 1 signet and the elite so theres clearly lots of room for variation

It’s not so perfect lol. You seem to be lack quite alot of knowledge regarding to rangers.
If you trait for just 4/6 and take 300+range without read the wind, you literally cannot hit anyone at 1000+ range. If you go for 6/6, you only have 2 points left, and there’s not many useful traits for ranger with 2 points investment only. Protection on dodge is 3 points in survival, and the only 2 condition removal traits need 6 points to work. If you do this supposedly “perfect” 6/6 build, you basically has 0 method to deal with condition. If you take healing spring to counter condition, you’d have very little sustain because the healing is just not enough, CD too long, and you’re stuck inside that small circle. If you take signet of restoration, you sacrifice one precious utility like lightning reflex, signet of hunt and so on. If you take survival the fittest as cleanse, you basically sacrifices the whole utility bars for the cleanse. If you trait for any sort of cleanse like empathetic bond or survival the fittest, you not only sacrifices numerous dps, but also sacrifices the quickdraw or read the wind. (Pick one to sacrifice). Wolves are also one of the most fragile pets out there, that Aoe field classes like Meta celestial shoutbow, D/D ele, staff ele, engi can easily kill them with the AOE spam.

One additional note, entangle is one of the most telegraphic elites too, that almost no veterans will be hit by it in dueling. Immobolize usually would be cleanse in first second if you don’t have another 4 condition covering it, which a power ranger cannot easily do. That skill is not as good as you think, and people pick that mostly to synergize with Survival the Fittest because there’re not much other options of cleansing. Honestly, condition rangers are much stronger than power rangers in conquest.

Rezzet.3614:

while they can be easy to kill with the right builds it has to be admitted that rangers are getting a bit too much damage with their longbows as well as too much range

rangers max actual range is 1900-2000 this alone is unfair
too much cc access that makes even engies pitiful
wolf fear wolf knockdown and cripple ontop of that wolves have 1/4 attack rate , 2 spider immobilizes then theres the best elite ingame an aoe reaplying bleed and immobilize up to 9s without condi dure traits or runes or sigils as well as the long range knockdown longbow skill

then theres the trait that grants opening strike with 5s cooldown after interrupting foe

rangers get 50% damage just by being 1000 range away opening strike gives them 150% more then 25% more plus stability and movement speed with signet of the wild

then if you add sigil of air and fire you cant argue with there being any imbalance when you can get sniped from 2000 range away while a pet cc spams you .

yes you can counter rangers but you’re as good as dead if you blew your cd while ranger will still take pot shots at you from far away they got a stealth skill just in case you get close enough .

then theres the ridiculously short cooldowns
8s on what basically equates to a long range mobile hundred blades
10 seconds on stealth
12 seconds long range knockback

You talk as if we’re using a magic build of 6/6/6/6/6 with 4 pets on our disposal.
Also entangle has little damage on power ranger, you kind of mix up the stronger version of ranger: condition ranger, to power ranger.
CC-wise it’s miles away from engineer and necro. Wolf fear is terribly telegraphic and long CD, spider can be a pain but has low ai too, and sacrifices hard CC if you pick spiders. Also aside from Foefire, there’s not much chance you can just safely pew pew from 1000+ range, and many times you need to help defend nodes too. Stealth requires you to hit the target to trigger, so any blind, block, reflect or LoS abuse can counter that. RF can easily be canceled if fight at melee range and wasted their CD. Condition removal is terrible if run full glass, and sacrifices alot of utilities and damage just to pick up Survival the fittest.

Again you’re making it sound like we’re using a 6/6/6/6/6 perfect build.

Dawdler.8521:

Hexalot.8194:

nightblood.7910:

This is a great thing, power creep roaming has been out of control in WvW. Honestly if they removed food, utility buffs and stacking sigils, it would get even better and likely you would see less people staying in the safety of the zerg.

I jumped from WvW to PvP and PvP is so much more balanced and a real challenge.

You just described perfectly why there is a game mode called PVP and one called WvW. You want a game mode where everyone is standardized, “balanced” with virtually no advantage whatsoever with everyone using virtually the same thing ?

Go to PVP.

But… why does that matter when NO ONE has applied fortitude and strength? It still becomes the same thing. Sure you have less vitality and less power – the enemy got less vitality and less power as well. Equal terms. But its still PvE gear, with all its options and diversity, far more than PvP setups.

We managed to do WvW just fine before the WvW skill system was even thought of. No bonuses to siege (remember when arrowcarts did no damage?), no player buffs, no borderlands buff etc.

This is also a good buff to guild fights in open WvW. No more one side killing everyone and them wanting to have a second go at each other, but now its completely loopsided because one side has buffs and the other dont. Isnt this what we want? This change will be great for balancing small scale and roamers. No more coming fresh out of spawn and meeting that 1 thief that’s so buffed he can barely walk right. Again, isnt this what we want?

I really dont understand why people are so negative. The added buff was meaningless to begin with. It didnt make WvW better.

Guard killing buffs are always easy to obtain. The only tedious on is the 25 stack bloodlust thingy. It’s a pain to build these, that’s why I do not like to go down.

We lack any forms of decent AOE damage. Hope Druid will be an offensive AOE spammer, not defensive Guardian staff playstyle.

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

No one said anything about balancing around hotjoin, you’re the one who keeps talking about it, maybe you should get out of hotjoin for once and try to queue.

Hey, you’re the one who refused to que up in Rank que as ranger lol.. Ik the reason already, because they’re not good enough.

Spirigo.2897:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Nice try, but no.

The pro scene is tiny, it’s not an indication. Only a small handful of people bother with PvP long enough to play at that level, which is an indication enough that something is seriously off with how PvP is designed and balanced.

At entry level it makes absolutely no sense. Few people bother to take the time to understand the clusterkitten that is GW2 PvP as a result of this.

It’s not deep or complex like Dota2, just so badly designed that it only makes sense to a select few hardheaded fools who bother to play it long enough.

If you want to balance anything around Hot-Join, then any build will be OP.
My condition engi is insanely OP in hot-join, and can 1 v 2 most of the time lol.. I really don’t need to use ranger at all.
It’s pointless to argue with blind people.

TyPin.9860:

Toxsa.2701:

Hexalot.8194:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

Due to granting the powerful Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects, the Defense Against Guards and Guard Killer lines needed to be extremely expensive, but that meant players often felt obligated to spend their first 230 points on these lines before they could begin branching out into other ability lines. Also, those two lines—along with the Siege Might, Siege Bunker, and Mercenary’s Bane lines that simply granted single percentage increases per ability rank—felt very weak. This drove our decision to shorten the Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards lines to five, removing Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude.

Enjoy it while it lasts folks…

Edit.. LOL, didn’t mean to post as a question. :-D

Bleh, another “noob-firendly” patch. All veterans should have grabbed everything useful already.. Losing that 100 power and 250 vit is going to hurt so much as a zerker class They really want those worthless newbies who almost never play wvw to be happy huh. They should be rank 500+ already at this point.

Exactly this kind of elitist entitlement approach is the thing that hurts WvW more than anything ANet can do.

After Account Bound Wxp, there’re really no more excuse for lack of rank points.
Seriously, the only possibility for lack of rank points is that you never play WvW at all…

Kaos.9162:

First, we wanted to reduce the costs of ability lines to make them feel more attainable, even to the majority of WvW players with a world ranking under 300

Glad to see they’re catering to the casual player base again, because ranks are too hard to get, apparently.

I lol at this… You probably don’t play more than 30 minutes per day right? To say the rank is hard to get… Maybe GW2 players are abit “too casual” that they can’t stand for any effort? According to Anet, “majority of players are under rank 300”. Umm… do they really play, like at all? It seems like they don’t like to play that game-mode at all.

Hexalot.8194:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/

Due to granting the powerful Applied Fortitude and Applied Strength effects, the Defense Against Guards and Guard Killer lines needed to be extremely expensive, but that meant players often felt obligated to spend their first 230 points on these lines before they could begin branching out into other ability lines. Also, those two lines—along with the Siege Might, Siege Bunker, and Mercenary’s Bane lines that simply granted single percentage increases per ability rank—felt very weak. This drove our decision to shorten the Guard Killer and Defense Against Guards lines to five, removing Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude.

Enjoy it while it lasts folks…

Edit.. LOL, didn’t mean to post as a question. :-D

Bleh, another “noob-firendly” patch. All veterans should have grabbed everything useful already.. Losing that 100 power and 250 vit is going to hurt so much as a zerker class They really want those worthless newbies who almost never play wvw to be happy huh. They should be rank 500+ already at this point.

Jelzouki.4128:

The the traited range at almost 2000 needs to be nerfed. And power ranger can indeed be a good addition to a team. Eurantien is a power ranger for one of the NA teams that went to the wts. If you’re a ranger all you need to do is position yourself in the right spot where your enemy will have a hassle trying to get you. In this case your COUNTERS such as condi classes or porting classes should go after you. Every class has counters, but when we’re talking about balance, close to 2000 range hits are absurd.

And I lol’d at the comparison to life blast. Life blast does not home (someone said it did wtf, I think you’re thinking of DS #2) and it has 1200 range, you need to trait for it to pierce so it doesn’t get obstructed, it has the most obvious animation in the world (big dark energy ball charging up in front of the necro) and its cast time is brutal. You most certainly cannot state lifeblast is on the same level as longbow ranger.

Unless it’s on Foefire, almost all maps have location to counter projectiles. Also please, just go play one Power Ranger in ranked Que, RIGHT NOW, and see how “easy” your job is as a Power Ranger, and how “useful” you can be to your team. You probably will be shocked by the result. Just go for it please, now. If power ranger is as easy as you claimed, their shouldn’t only be one of them in the entire tournament. Those people are not stupid yknow.

Muchacho.2390:

Toxsa.2701:

Life blasts hit for about 4.5k “regardless the range”, pierces, with almost 100%crit rate.
Long range shot maximum damage at 1000+ range is like 3.3k (1500 if no crit), 2.5K crit at 500- range, with around 50% crit rate only.

This is actually only half true.
The damage coeffecents per second are (the numbers are taken from the wiki):
Lifeblast:
0-600 range: 1.4/1.4=1
600-1200 range 1/1.4=0.71

Long Range Shot:
+1000 range: 0.9
500-1000 range: 0.8
0-500 range: 0.7

So past 600 range Longrange shot does more damage (not counting any traits for ether). Only in 0-600 range Lifeblast does more damage and considering that weapons wiht small range tend to do more damage, i dont think it is unfair.

Now if we include the 50% crit chance in DS trait Lifeblast will most likely get higher dps but the potential burst of Long Range Shot past the 600 range is still higher, e.g. if you are lucky and crit a few times in a row, which is not unlikely with zerker gear and fury boon.

So i would conclude that at the 600+ range Long Range Shot is more dangerous then Lifeblast.

Also Lifeblast only pieces if traited and Long Range Shot can also pierce if traited.

LB makes hard choice if they want to pierce. You either have to sacrifice 1500 range and damage, or make your LB unable to hit anyone (no RtW) if you want to make LB pierces.

Jim Hunter.6821:

If they nerfed channeled skills ability to track through stealth what chance would a longbow ranger have against a thief? You can’t properly aim projectiles where you think a stealthed thief might be. A rangers melee weapons on their own don’t have the damage to take out a decent player running full SA or condi. Rangers would be forced into playing condi which is a much stronger spec against a thief.

Every profession has either channeled projectiles or a ton of aoe to keep stealth from becoming brokenly OP. You keep saying we should have to explain to you why rapid fire should track through stealth. Well the reason is because the game was designed that way so that stealth has counters. If they removed that counter they would have to introduce different limitations on stealth like you’ve seen in other games such as you can’t stealth in combat, 50% speed reduction while stealthed, any damage taken breaks stealth, etc.

And going off your argument of what “makes sense” to you, and how you “feel” things should work, it would make much more sense if they did implement these limitations because it is stealth, not invisibility. Do you really think thieves would be in a better place at that point?

No need to argue with those thieves. They’re spoiled children who’d rage and cry for nerf whenever someone beats their “supposedly invincible build”. Seriously, they’re used to winning and getting away in all situation in WvW, so whenever someone violates their moto (by using RF and sic-em to kill them), they’d say: “OMG SO BROKENLY OP , NEED TO NERF!”, instead of improving their own skills.

aspirine.6852:

Toxsa.2701:

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

Arkitech.9158:

problems tend to happen when programming. you have NO IDEA how many issues we would face without EXTENSIVE QA testing they do internally. Trust me you don’t know the half of it.

Extensive QA? Really? I have never seen so many bugs in any top game ever. This is embarresing to say the least. It’s almost amateur like.

You either chose to remember selectively, or have played very very few games then.

Or perhaps I played good ones…?

For example?
Please list them.

Why dont you list the top AAA games with gamebreaking bugs. Most releases have bugs, like my last fav. game Diablo 3 had plenty, and still has. I cant remember any real gamebreaking bug even for D3. Or guild wars 1, had way less bugs than gw2 and cant remember at all any gamebreaking bugs.

LOL Diablo 3 did have game-breaking bugs since launch, that many people can’t even log-in and play. Many also experience constant crashing/ dcing. It lasts for at least a month or two. GW2 serious bugs usually resolved rather quickly.

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

I was pointing out why your reply to mine was irrelevant. That’s great for you, power ranger takes hardly any skill and is nowhere near to being as squishy as thief or zerker ele while having a good amount of cc and longest range in game.

Go try one in tournament, you hot-join heroes. Just go try it and see how successful and easy you can be.

Also no Ele run zerker in PVP. Nice try bro, way to show how new you are.
Now I can safely reply you: L2P.

Zephyra.4709:

Condi P/D thief if they’re not running much condi cleanse/-40 condi food.

No joke I’ve literally danced around these guys pressing #2 immobilize and they have 1 min 30 secs of poison with a vomitfull of other condis on them all the while I’m fluttering about with those 2 circus clown elite thieves guild NPCs and it’s hilarious. They have no range weapon? GG. Immobilize them. They get close? Skill #3 which applies torment or CnD on them to set up.. Oh look another face full of bleed stacks.

If they’re running -40 condi food then yes, it’s a lot harder and I’ve failed many times with those types.

Other than that – full zerk LB pew pew ranger. Yes. I’ve killed a tiny handful of these guys; just pop stability (RaO) and even that signet and GG if I’m a tad but lucky. It’s mostly the animations you need to be aware of (the big tells) when they swing that hammer coz they WILL immobilize you if they’re traited and no stab = you’re dead.

Hope that helps.

I play Power ranger for WvW roaming forever, and I can confirm, aside from dire perplex thieves and condition necro with full death shroud, GS/H is one of the toughest match-up for my power ranger.

Even if I do run empathetic Bond and -40% condition food to begin with, I still couldn’t escape all his constant cripple (the duration is quite long), and he’s too mobile that I’d pretty much ended up trading blows with him when I trying to pew pew him. Just that he has way higher armors than me, so my LB wouldn’t kill him before he kills me if I just stand there shooting, and I’m forced to retreat through hunter shot + GS leap. Usually full RF will only do around 5~6k damage to them at max, which they can easily heal up my being aggressive and force me to switch to GS. Worst case scenario is they pop Rampage while my HP has already been chipped down abit. It’s a constant stability with almost immunity to soft CC and EXTREMELY TANKY (there’s a damage reduction during that time). Snaring/ KB/ KD/ Fear, none works on him during that time, and he actually runs way faster than me even if I run Pack Rune so I have constant swiftness on me, and hits very hard.

But there’re only a handful of good Warriors play like that. Most of them either run too tanky with almost 0 damage, or too glassy and can’t live through my arrows. Just because you kill the weak ones out there doesn’t mean the build is weak. You should always use the strongest foes you encountered as the example when examining these builds. In my opinion it’s much stronger than any LB variant of the Warrior when I’m playing power ranger. If they actually use LB, I’d have a much easier time pew pew them to death because they make range for us to do higher damage, and couldn’t hit us when we enter stealth XD.

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Laraley.7695:

I know that recognizing someone is exaggerating from a written text can be difficult, but I imagined this was an easy one.

I don’t need exaggeration. My point is I have a much much easier time playing as an Engi or Warrior, and be successful than playing a power ranger. Almost any competent conditions/ celestial spec can eat my power ranger alive if I make one mistake.

Laraley.7695:

Shadelang.3012:

Im gonna go on a limb and guess.
One. Your naked or a light armor in zerk
Two. Your opponent. was a 66 longbow build with every available damage multiplier working as well as a good amount of might. (He has 100% endurance. And your being hit from behind=20% damage boost + multiple other damage modifiers)
Three. Your opponent was also complete glass.

What that means is he was running a built fairly similar to the old maul builds that used to be more common. Pop multiple damage modifiers (10% damage from endurance. 10% damage from flanking. 25% from SotW. As well as the signet of the hunt proc all at once) and make sure that one attack hits.

Which means you got wrecked by someone in a literally perfect situation. Im assuming he ganked you. Your probably died at about the same speed you would have if a good thief had ganked you.

That’s not the point. The point is you can do this as a ranger while sitting on the other side of map.

Realisticly it’d only happen in Hot Join zzz.
If a ranger just sit on the other side of map doing his stuffs, he either is a bad ranger, or your team suck and couldn’t force ranger to stand on cap point because all your nodes are being taken by enemies.

Julie Yann.5379:

Lots of chill and cripples and immo will shut down pretty much any GS build. Freeze him and watch Usain Bolt turn into Simon Pegg in “Run fatboy Run”. Don’t stay in melee range while he is chilled/crippled/ or immobilized cause if he whirlwinds you will be taking a ton of damage.

As for tips on GS/H in particular, learn to recognize and dodge Earthshaker and Backbreaker skills or eat 100blades. The build is just another one trick pony similar to skullcrack. Once you learn what damage you should take and what you should evade/block it becomes fairly easy to beat for most classes.

-40% condition duration food, dodged march -33%, Holbrek rune -20%pretty much would be on those Warrior all times. Gl Chilling/Crippling/immobilizing them. Also it’s not one trick pony because it actually has good sustain against direct damage. Their strength come from consistent snaring/ mobility/ CC/ burst and sustainability.

Seriously, if a GS/H Warrior doesn’t use those -condition duration stuffs I mentioned, and toughness not at least 3k, they’re pretty much inexperienced Warrior roamers and shouldn’t take it seriously.

DaShi.1368:

??? I’ve found lb/gs power ranger to be one of the easiest builds on spvp. Incredible ranged damage, lot’s of defense, and lots of cc. I can take down players in seconds from 1500+ range. It has everything a berserker build could want. It’s rather vulnerable to conditions though, but because of its range and evasive skills, condition heavy builds can still be outplayed.

Are you playing hot join?

Cynz.9437:

Tman.6349:

Well, at least it’s a good thing those Rangers don’t have AoE snares, fears, immobiles and knockdowns on short cooldowns.

…and invuls..<_<

i don’t think rangers are that OP but i don’t think that pressing 1 and 2 and eat entire HP bar from enemy could really motivate newer players to get better at game :P

i do wish the effective range wasn’t almost 2000~

Not really. Power ranger requires immense skills than condition ranger. Usually condition ranger eats power ranger alive easily. I’m not even kidding. In conquest, power ranger needs immense skill just to stay alive. The real easy mode out there is Shoutbow Warrior and condition Engi.

WOW.9653:

Atherakhia.4086:

Elegant Avenger.8042:

tom.7468:

Thats why i play ranger in pvp
I also love how players say haha noob ranger go play a meta build 1 minute later they are dead on the ground and say omfg your build is no skill.

Still doesn’t change the fact its a no skill build LOL.

lol, and you play what exactly?

And after LRS is nerfed, I guess life blast will be the next target?

Life Blast requires DS, has much longer cast time and moves slowly, deals less damage overall, much shorter range.
YE son your point isn’t valid and you should feel bad for saying it

Less damage lol..
Go test on dummy you ignorant folks.
Life blasts hit for about 4.5k “regardless the range”, pierces, with almost 100%crit rate.
Long range shot maximum damage at 1000+ range is like 3.3k (1500 if no crit), 2.5K crit at 500- range, with around 50% crit rate only.

Lich Form doubles that damage, dealing 8k damage per crit, firing at a faster rate than LB auto. Rapid fire hit like 8~9k on “zerker medium or light classes”, and only when all the channel lands. (only kitten will take full damage from RF, it’s a 2.5 seconds channel skills, if your reaction is this slow, you need to go see a doctor.) By the time Rapid Fire finishes, Lich Form already deals 17k damage, while most people dodged half of the damage of RF, making it hit like 4~5k only.

tom.7468:

Thats why i play ranger in pvp
I also love how players say haha noob ranger go play a meta build 1 minute later they are dead on the ground and say omfg your build is no skill.

This is especially true when fighting a thief as ranger.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Toxsa.2701:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Toxsa.2701:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

never once in all my roaming have i been jumped by thieves that i did not see on my screen. are you telling me that you roam blind and deaf, so you cant see them pop shadow refuge or hear them blast the smoke field? sorry but just no. unless you are day dreaming and did not see any red names in the far distance then there is no reason for thieves to randomly pop stealth unless they see an enemy too which in that case you see them too – then they will stealth up, you should respond to that, not blindly carry on foreword or what ever you do.

Which tier are you on?
Also I think you’re outright lying/exaggerating, or not roam enough to claim you never get jumped by thieves before. I even roll my screen to the farthest all the time, and still occasionally get jumped by thief/thieves from behind because they can gap close you out from screen on your left, right and backs side of screen within 0.5 second.

Where did he say he has never been jumped by thieves before? I mean you quoted his post and still went and disingenuously put words in his mouth he did not say.

“never once in all my roaming have i been jumped by thieves that i did not see on my screen. are you telling me that you roam blind and deaf, so you cant see them pop shadow refuge or hear them blast the smoke field?”
Learn to Read?

Are you suggesting I cannot read, because I didn’t chose to ignore the same qualifiers you ignored? That doesn’t strike me as very logical, but to each their own I guess.

Not only can I read, I can speak braille in 7 different languages.

He specifically stated that
" never once in all my roaming have i been jumped by thieves that i did not see on my screen. "

Are you claiming thieves cannot be seen on screens now?

Aware players will generally see them coming. Stealth has a duration limit. If you not aware of your surrounding, that does not mean you can assume everyone else is not as well. Once they hit you once, they lose stealth. At that point all stealth did was gem them the opening attack. Aware players with then counter in some way, At one of those two points in the encounter, you will have seen the thief. Other wise their is a problem, such as having out dated PC equipment that misses graphics it should have displayed, poor game play on your part, a simple lack of awareness, or a failure to react.

Then you simply don’t understand what “jumped by thieves” means.
It means you’re caught off-guard, unaware of he’s coming.
He simply claimed he never got caught off-guard by thieves a single time, always see them coming in any situation because those thieves always leave a smoke field for him to see.

Like I said, good D/P thieves always pre-stack stealth before he moves to anywhere.
They can stack up to 15+ seconds, and keep on stacking up stealth if they want to. Good ones will start leaping through smoke field from afar before any engagement.
Too bad many veteran thieves in WvW are long gone. Most now don’t even know how to leap through smoke field with the short version of heart-seeker, and only start stealthing when in like 1500 range. At that point foes are totally aware of thieve’s incoming spike. But for dire perplex thieves, it really doesn’t matter when they stealth though because they’ll eventually win. Even if they can’t win, there’s not many things you can do to stop him from escaping. Despite all the advantages, bad thieves still QQ like no tomorrow when someone outplays him, and always demand a nerf when they’re fighting you with the most broken mechanic in WvW. Sad really.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Toxsa.2701:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

never once in all my roaming have i been jumped by thieves that i did not see on my screen. are you telling me that you roam blind and deaf, so you cant see them pop shadow refuge or hear them blast the smoke field? sorry but just no. unless you are day dreaming and did not see any red names in the far distance then there is no reason for thieves to randomly pop stealth unless they see an enemy too which in that case you see them too – then they will stealth up, you should respond to that, not blindly carry on foreword or what ever you do.

Which tier are you on?
Also I think you’re outright lying/exaggerating, or not roam enough to claim you never get jumped by thieves before. I even roll my screen to the farthest all the time, and still occasionally get jumped by thief/thieves from behind because they can gap close you out from screen on your left, right and backs side of screen within 0.5 second.

Where did he say he has never been jumped by thieves before? I mean you quoted his post and still went and disingenuously put words in his mouth he did not say.

“never once in all my roaming have i been jumped by thieves that i did not see on my screen. are you telling me that you roam blind and deaf, so you cant see them pop shadow refuge or hear them blast the smoke field?”
Learn to Read?

Good D/P thieves pre-stack stealth 24/7 before engaging in any battle. If you see them coming, they’re not good thieves. Those are ones that don’t even know how to use the shorten version of heart-seeker to spam leap finisher on smoke field. Unfortunately most thieves are that bad.

Mattmatt.4962:

Toxsa.2701:

Good that ele finally has counters

Yeah, cause auto spinal shiver necro – 6K AA isnt a counter, SD thief doesnt have to spamm 2 to rip appart all your boon while evading everything, ranger cant kite you to death with trap and high chill uptime ,etc.
;)

Some people should just never talk XD
By the way, rock paper scissor is the worst way to balance a game … just saying.

About reaper:
I think it will be a nice counter but not an heavy one.

Lol, surprised someone saying ranger/ necro/ thief is actually celestial Ele’s “counters”
Good one.

aspirine.6852:

coglin.1867:

aspirine.6852:

Arkitech.9158:

problems tend to happen when programming. you have NO IDEA how many issues we would face without EXTENSIVE QA testing they do internally. Trust me you don’t know the half of it.

Extensive QA? Really? I have never seen so many bugs in any top game ever. This is embarresing to say the least. It’s almost amateur like.

You either chose to remember selectively, or have played very very few games then.

Or perhaps I played good ones…?

For example?
Please list them.

Best “patch” ever in WvW history.
Hope it lasts

Sagat.3285:

Toxsa.2701:

Considering how much they’d buff SA post next skill balance change, I think this bug is more than speculation, but a hindsight of future stealth change. Now you’re revealed regardless of whether you hit a foe or not after you exit stealth.

What buffs?

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-thief-shadow-arts-specialziation1.jpg

Considering how much they’d buff SA post next skill balance change, I think this bug is more than speculation, but a hindsight of future stealth change. Now you’re revealed regardless of whether you hit a foe or not after you exit stealth.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

never once in all my roaming have i been jumped by thieves that i did not see on my screen. are you telling me that you roam blind and deaf, so you cant see them pop shadow refuge or hear them blast the smoke field? sorry but just no. unless you are day dreaming and did not see any red names in the far distance then there is no reason for thieves to randomly pop stealth unless they see an enemy too which in that case you see them too – then they will stealth up, you should respond to that, not blindly carry on foreword or what ever you do.

Which tier are you on?
Also I think you’re outright lying/exaggerating, or not roam enough to claim you never get jumped by thieves before. I even roll my screen to the farthest all the time, and still occasionally get jumped by thief/thieves from behind because they can gap close you out from screen on your left, right and backs side of screen within 0.5 second.

T raw.4658:

Toxsa.2701:

T raw.4658:

Funny thread.

1. OP has to learn to dodge.
2. The ranger defense brigade needs to stop defending the most brain dead low risk high reward class in the game.
3. D/D thief takes infinitely more skill to pull off that a LB ranger.

Either way it’s good to see the posters who rage about thieves scrambling to defend their class lol

If only there’s no wall for D/D to infinitely stack up stealth when near a keep…
This should be fixed already…

Oh, btw, if ranger is so low risk high reward, they should be in the tournaments and WvW already lol… But guess which classes are the most plenty?
Thieves. Engineers. Warriors. Elementalists. Guardians.

And for WvW roaming, thieves number are like 5 times more than other classes. Pretty obvious that which class is the most low risk high reward in WvW lol.. Yet you and that Archon guy is defending the most broken class and crying about ranger because that “Sick-em” and “Rapid Fire”may screw you low risks folks up many times.

Your ignorance on thieves becomes more apparent with each post you make on said subject.

1. Thieves can’t stack stealth on a wall. Used to be but that was removed.
2. You like to cherry pick between WvW and PvP on your rants. There are tons of rangers in PvP. There are zero thief teams out there as well. Funny though is your main problem with thief is in WvW. Stick to 1 aspect b/c in PvP thieves are FAR from OP.
3. Provide hard data or stop guesstimating.

Here’s a lil fun test for anyone to try. Log onto WvW and stand out in the middle of EBG. Don’t attack anyone, /wave a lot, invite/join enemy parties to chat, and take note which people attack you.

It’ll always be a ranger, and if its not a ranger its a ranger playing his alt.

truth

LMFAO. When I roam in EBG, always thieves (yes, usually 2 or more) attack me first, coming from nowhere. You can’t even see it’s coming because they’re sharing stealth. Worse yet, they’ll jump/ dance around your body after they successfully annihilated you after ganking you to down state coming from nowhere.

Don’t know what tier you’re roaming, but your bias toward rangers are beyond words.

Last word, you’re asking people to provide data to proof their statistic, yet you give such highly subjective and bias data without any support at all. What a double standard guy. Sad really.

And yeah, please go roam in EBG in T1. You’ll see way more thieves as roamers than rangers. You’d only see alot of rangers in places like EotM. That’s a fact.

Josh Davis.6015:

I don’t think this is intended, but I’ll need to follow-up with the skills team in the morning to be sure. Either way, I started an email chain about this. Thanks for the reports.

Too good if it’s intended
Probably this change will launch at HoT with an official announcement.
I suddenly don’t mind the SA buff in HoT anymore if the new stealth mechanic works like that.

Good that ele finally has counters
But probably only works on D/D because they’re mostly melee.

Adean.3702:

Again i dont really have trouble with Power necros if they use lich form its to my advantage i use signet of stone and i can just burst him cause he wont have the life form to shield him and his dmg wont touch me

And again I said zerg fight. L2Read….
Power Ele and Necro are much more impactful than ranger in a group fight because they do way higher AOE damage.

Adean.3702:

Yeah i realize i back up ur point if u look up my post u can see how much dmg i do to different armor types saying that aint OP would be stupid but every class needs their bonuses i know alot of skills that can make my skills useless, Cele Ele i have very much trouble vs but im learning to deal with them, Engineers with shield abit trouble also, warriors with endure pain, guardians with renewed focus and after that they can leap me and use hammer skill 5 to keep me in close combat its so easy to kill a ranger.

Go try a power necro and power ele in zerg. Seriously, go try it. You’d laugh at ranger’s AOE damage once you see what Ele and Necro can do, ticking 5~8k damage per seconds to a whole group of enemies, netting 25~40k damage per second for like 10~15seconds.

Jana.6831:

Adean.3702:

I always use knockback as my first skill before fight and then rapid fire cause i use quickening zephyr i wanna finish my rapid while the enemy is knock backed so they wont be able to stealth or dodge it

And that’s exactly what I meant.

Oh and btw: Please get rid of sic em or don’t allow rangers and engis to stealth, or give thieves the ability to destroy the healing, burst and defense of rangers and engis.

And that is all. Just wanted to back up the OP and have said all I’ve said now in other threads as well- I hope anet will listen some day.

LOL, please get rid of stealth and shadow-step, so other classes can actually catch thieves when they make a dumb mistake, and get out of almost all situations no matter how bad they play.

See the logic here?
Selfish thieves keep up the QQ plz.