I’ve been playing engineer since beta. I’ve seen all the ups and downs of the class. This last patch has honestly been the worst for engineers that I can recall. Our trait lines have been gutted, our new traits were nerfed before they were even released, and we didn’t receive many of the promised baseline traits outlined in the livestreams.
Celestial engineer is mediocre at best now and really doesn’t have a place anymore in my opinion. Condition engineer can stack some good burns and is decent, but it really isn’t a solid build considering burn guard can do it better with stronger team utility and a necromancer completely counters you worse than ever.
The final option is to use an all in berserker build. I have seen many people complaining about the grenades piercing targets. However, this is the only shining light we have left. After the 33% damage nerf to grenades, the multiple nerfs to the durations of conditions applied by them, the range reduction, and the removal of the poison field I feel like this throwback to 100nades is the best thing we have. If this is changed I really don’t see what place the engineer will have in this game.
It is early I admit and I may be wrong or missing something, but this is how I feel currently after the testing I have done since the patch.
For the record I think static discharge is a useless build as half of the toolbelt skills don’t even work with the trait in case anyone was going to suggest that as a viable alternative.
Feel free to quit Engi and find something “better” to play, and then you’d realize how strong Engi always have been. Engi, along with ranger, are 2 of my mains across all 8 professions that I have (I do have numerous experience on all of them), and I always find Engi the strongest among all of them in my PVP game-play.
For all we know it could be working as intended and ANet simply missed adding a tooltip saying grenades pierce on hit with no limit. Kinda ridiculous idea, but it still could be the case. While nade barrage one-shots low health pools it also requires the engi to sacrifice almost all survivability (through heals at least). Comparatively Mes and Thief can one shot the same health pools and has lots of survivability. So I wouldn’t say it’s way too op, I killed lots of nade engis on ele, mes, necro, thief, and war. 1v1 they aren’t very good. In a team fight you just focus them down before they do too much damage.
Stop talking none-sense
It can one shot 20k hp foes.
we know you’re defending it ONLY because you’re using it.
Also you’re OUTRIGHT LYING to say Engi sacrifices survival for that damage. All engi need to take is 1 utility slot and 2 very useful traitlines. You can even pick a defensive trait line for the 3rd spared traitline. You have 2 more utility slots to grab elixir s and tool kit as survival mehtods. It has much better sustain than most zerkers.
The new PU gave 2 additional seconds of stealth on Torch and Decoy and 4 seconds on the elite. It does not suddenly make them completely OP, it does not give any sort of damage boost. It is a solid grand master now that encourages using multiple stealth skills to change your playstyle. Nerfing PU will not suddenly stop mesmers from stealthing and hitting hard.
Can you do math?
It gives 3 additional seconds to all the 3 secs stealth and 5 additional seconds to mass invisibility.
I seriously think the trait should just add 25% to stealth duration, so 3 secs → 4 secs, and 5 secs → 6.66 secs. More in line with thieves. The boons kinda pulse too much also.
All I’m hearing is, “my positioning is bad and I waste my stun breaks.”
LMAO. With Mesmer 10~20 secs of stealth, they can stealth in places that you can’t see and come near you and spike you. There’s no “positioning” in it at all. How can you prevent something you can’t even see on your screen? Also their burst damage is so high since they did all the preparation while in steath, so you’d eat a full combo if you don’t have invulnerable skills.
Ranger and Warrior have no “invulnerable” whatsoever.
They don’t even have block that can dish out damage while blocking.
The only 2 classes that can do that are Guardian and Mesmer.
What are you smoking? You’re not making any sense. For damage mitigation, Mesmer and Guardian do this the best with most form of complete invulnerable.
And none of these are invulnerable. It doesn’t prevent hard cc/soft cc/ and any damaging condition. They’re hardly invulnerable.
Also Warrior is the bigger abuser of damage mitigation since 99% of them have it. There’s nothing else to choose from the master tier other than endure pain, so all Warrior who picked Defense Line always proc endure pain whether they like it or not. (Oh, and almost all Warriors pick defense line in pvp)
Ranger and Warrior have no “invulnerable” whatsoever.
They don’t even have block that can dish out damage while blocking.
The only 2 classes that can do that are Guardian and Mesmer.
What are you smoking? You’re not making any sense. For damage mitigation, Mesmer and Guardian do this the best with most form of complete invulnerable.
I stealthed from the gate of foefire all the way to the point at mine. There was an ele at the point. I decided to simply stand there. Breathing down its neck. I then went for the burst and wiped out 75% of its HP with just mirror blade spike. Then I went back into stealth for about 15 seconds. The ele got bored of being there and left the point. When he did, I capped the point and he had to come back. I then got back into stealth, went mid and blew up some thief.
Long story short: You don’t.
Mesmer is completely broken now. There is absolutely 0 counterplay with blind on shatter going through evade, a guaranteed stun whenever you want to burst (which 100-0’s almost anything), PU making mesmers godmode, and a whole bunch of other things I can go on about. Pretty much this tells the story lol.
I will lay out some things: Inspiration tree: Way too much heals support condi remove. A decent inspiration mesmer is at the moment fairly unbeatable in duels. (Except with some cheese builds). I good way to nerf it for shatter builds without breaking it for support/healer mesmer (which isnt op) could be to make the shatter heal scale more from healing power. At the moment it heals 1,5k or something from shatters on zerk build. Confounding suggesions Instant hard CC is incredibly strong and very probably OP. In combination with daze mantra it is way too strong. Its hard to say if it is the trait or the mantra that needs a nerf. PU Boring and cheesy to play against, similar to shadow arts thief. Stealth and oneshot with little to no counterplay. Will probably need to be nerfed to at least 50% or something. Personally i would replace it with a more fun trait.
Also, at the moment sword mes seems stronger than staff mesmer. This is because of blurred frenzy countering oneshots and the prestige allowing more stealth oneshots.
This is coming from someone who plays mesmer exclusively. Mesmer is absolutely broken at the moment.
Finally some solid arguments.
Wish these panic Mesmer folks address this post with solid counter-arguments instead of “you xx class troll, go back to your forum!” or “stop asking for nerf! Weh~~~~”
If you can’t form any decent argument backing up by facts and opinions, then your argument is very weak and has no merit whatsoever.
Last note, I multi-class all classes for a long long time. Really doesn’t matter which one get nerfed or buffed the most. Just stating what’s broken right now.
Told ya. They buffed us to make us happy and go preorder HoT. Give them 1-2 weeks and we’ll be back to … well yeah.
Like someone else said, lucky for me, I didn’t pre-order HoT.
I can do without Chronomancer if this is the balancing experience I have to look forward to.
I told you so Anet. You should have tested your stuffs before you give-out candies to greedy folks. They would have pre-order HoT if you do the balance right at launch, not giving too much, so no need to nerf any of them either, and they’d be as happy as when you released the OP version of it.
Human are born greedy, so if you let them expose to wealth, there’s no turning back anymore. They would not be able to endure poverty anymore after they taste the wealth first. You shouldn’t have spoiled them in the first place. Bad move Anet!
There’s nothing greedy about wanting fairness in the grand scheme of “balancing”. You sound utterly ridiculous. #shill
It sounds ridiculous to you because it hurts your ego. But it is truth.
It’s all to do with expectation.
If they releases a “reasonable change” at launch with just minor buff (it just has to be OBVIOUS that’s it’s a buff, but doesn’t need to be too big), people would have the same impression when they receive some OP changes.
But then when you kick in a nerf, people’s will suddenly have negative impression regardless of whether it’s a nerf to the “reasonable version” or “op version”.
It is much better to have minor buff with no nerf, keeping a positive impression, than to have a OP buff and slight nerf (doesn’t has to be big nerf, ANY nerf will get people upset no matter how small it is) People just don’t want their things being taken away. It’s a “greed and attitude issue” of human being, and it’s the truth.
As consequences, now people refuse to buy HoT because they’re “emotionally hurt”.
If Anet gives out a mediocre changes that requires no nerf to begin with, that person who doesn’t get “emotionally hurt” by it would have bought HoT. Human is emotional creature who often makes irrational decision base on impulse.
No, when playing PS you camp the GS. If you are not playing PS then sure, you go disc.
If you pick Disp, you get:
2. Free cleanse on swap
3. Quickness on a 15 CD
4. Permanent 25% Walk-speed+2 immobilize break
5. Free Cleanse on Swap
6. Better Synergy with LB F1 fire field since you have Fast-Hand
Ele can stack 25 vulnerability with a single click on a boss. And for all practical purposes its perma because the boss dies in 5 seconds. Furthermore, the 3 main classes have gotten major dps buffs.
Warrior which got for its basic PS build:
-10% GS damage
-10% up from 3% extra damage when endurance not full
-20% extra damage when hitting a burst skill
-baseline vulnerability on crit
The only nerf was 5% down from 10% damage on bleeding foes. But overall its a net extra 35% damage on the base values, values without any modifiers, which makes PS the stuff of dreams.
Thief…. O M G. And else is just overall much better too.
Seriously there’s no reason to pick Arm anymore. If you pick Discipline, you’d get that OP quickness on 15 cd base for a HUGE dps buff.
nice try to hide this as a advice seeking post, we all know you are trying bring more attention to nerf Mesmers (which we already received while other classes got none).
Just remember what comes around goes around, Ele is doing tons of damages too. I hope your class get nerfs as well.
If you’re SO SENSITIVE about this, it means you’re the one who’s hiding something. We all know your intention of hiding the broken stuffs anyway. If you’re worrying nothing, you wouldn’t be so aggressive in the first place. Actually you KNEW what is wrong, you just pretend that you don’t and hope everyone will overlook it.
Told ya. They buffed us to make us happy and go preorder HoT. Give them 1-2 weeks and we’ll be back to … well yeah.
Like someone else said, lucky for me, I didn’t pre-order HoT.
I can do without Chronomancer if this is the balancing experience I have to look forward to.
I told you so Anet. You should have tested your stuffs before you give-out candies to greedy folks. They would have pre-order HoT if you do the balance right at launch, not giving too much, so no need to nerf any of them either, and they’d be as happy as when you released the OP version of it.
Human are born greedy, so if you let them expose to wealth, there’s no turning back anymore. They would not be able to endure poverty anymore after they taste the wealth first. You shouldn’t have spoiled them in the first place. Bad move Anet!
I really hate all the QQ over mesmer right now. It’s been 2 days and its already time to play whack-a-mole with balance. Did any of the other classes think to open their trait panel and maybe try to CHANGE their build to address mesmer instead of demanding sweeping nerfs?
This exactly. I didn’t see any change to the once patched OP pew pew’s… No we had to find a new build to counter it (how it should be).
Haha, OP huh? Coming from the greatest Ranger’s counter currently (chuckle). Having the easiest access of reflect of all classes is not enough huh?
Anet, any idea why you give Mesmer Perma Stealth in the first place?
100% stealth duration increase + pulsing boons every second is way too much. It is even worse than thief because they can set up a 15k burst right beside you and you can’t see it coming.
Honestly, instead of kittening people up later with all the nerf, how about do some real testing before you release something. Yknow these guys are greedy folks that don’t care about balance a single bit. If you take away something from them after you given them something first, they’d refuse to buy your expansion! Totally bad move!
I don’t know if this post is supporting us or calling for more nerfs. Please go back to the Ranger forums and stop posting all these nerf this/nerf that posts on the mesmer forums. I can’t speak for other classes but mesmers as a whole police ourselves and know when something is out of whack and deservedly need to be adjusted.
Hey! I play all classes and have them lv80, and pvp 150 games a long time ago!
I have the right to care about Mesmer! I post in all threads cuz I play all of them.
Anyway, any sane person can tell 40 secs of stealth is abit out of control.
Power Block had its damage unintentionally increased with the 6/23 release. The reduction wasn’t a “nerf” – it was a bug fix. It still does the same damage it did before the 6/23 release.
As for Maimed, we wanted to address it before the build went out but we ran out of time. I agree that it would have been better to have adjusted it before you guys got your hands on the new build, but there just wasn’t time. Sorry about this.
For staff cd trait – conditional recharge is something new we’re trying out. The high cd reduction uptime that we were seeing right out of the gate wasn’t something we felt comfortable with. If it feels really weak after this we’ll come back to it and look at it again.
Anyways, as Peters said, we’re keeping a really close eye on everything right now and things will definitely continue to shift as we discover and evaluate how things take shape across the game.
Hope that addresses a few of your questions.
Night!
Anet, any idea why you give Mesmer Perma Stealth in the first place?
100% stealth duration increase + pulsing boons every second is way too much. It is even worse than thief because they can set up a 15k burst right beside you and you can’t see it coming.
Honestly, instead of kittening people up later with all the nerf, how about do some real testing before you release something. Yknow these guys are greedy folks that don’t care about balance a single bit. If you take away something from them after you given them something first, they’d refuse to buy your expansion! Totally bad move!
I think they’ll just rework burning damage formula all again. Be patient dude, cuz burning issue is not just one profession problem, but like 4 of them.
My guess is burning will have diminishing return if applied multiple stacks in a short period of time.
If you think Anet nerf things because they see our posts, then you’re naive lol.
They check the in-game matches and statistic, then they decide. Arguing here is pointless lol. Enjoy your OP stuffs while it lasts. Anet already said it’s better to start strong and nerf it later instead of starting weak. They’re intentionally making it strong at first, so seriously no reason to QQ about it when they nerf it because that’s their original goal anyway.
Btw, I find it funny the heavily biased and blinded crowds in the forum keep on insulting people for being a “troll of other classes who try to destroy their lala-land”. Guess what, people in Warrior, Thief, Ele, all said the exact same thing like you guys did lol.. The favorism and blindness is strong, and I’m glad Anet doesn’t listen to any of them.
Other classes, like thieves, not only get WAY MORE DAMAGE MODIFIER, but also has new tool like CONVERT PRECISION TO FEROCITY (it literally increases crit damage by 13%!).
Try again plz.
The beat on the street is power rangers got hugely buffed. I don’t play ranger, so can’t comment, but people who main it and do it well seem to disagree with you….
To them I say, good luck, enjoy, and hopefully the nerf bat doesn’t hit you (unless you have it coming).
I did not say ranger get nerfed, I said they lost their damage modifier, meaning the damage of is actually lower than before, just way more tools/utilities to use at our advantages now. That guy is arguing about the damage modifier thingy, so I’m just using the same damage modifier thing to refute him. But this is getting off-topic though so I’ll leave it at that.
Mesmer build options and effectiveness have been so consistently kitten for so long that when they’re suddenly something else…you have no idea how to react.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but Mesmer requiring 10x more effort to accomplish what everyone else could do didn’t make it better or more fun…it just made it non-meta and aggravating to play. Now we’re getting a reward more appropriate to the effort we put in, and some deluded mesmers are asking for nerfs. It boggles the mind.
You can’t scream for buffs all the time and then turn around and ask for nerfs after you get buffed. Stupid threads like this are one of the reasons mesmers never get nice things.
^ This, after facing unneeded nerf after nerf, we are finally back where we should be, no other class has face the level of single minded persecution that Mesmer has. What should happen is that all loyal Mesmer players should take a leaf out of the whingers here, go to another classes forums and all make post after post, bleat after bleat, thread after thread about that class and cry for nerfs… Pathetic really, a lot of the people who cry here are all recent Mesmer players who have no idea about the struggle and skill it took to excel at Mesmer, and have enjoyed the face roll of classes such as Thief, guess what, not once have the majority of loyal Mesmers calls for nerfs, we just adapted, improvised and overcame, not because it was fair, but because we just manned up and did it. I for one hope there are no nerfs, and everyone dries their princes eyes and cry yourselves to sleep on your kitten shaped pillows.
Fun facts:
1. Before the patch the most common candidate of people crying for nerf is toward ranger and thief.
2. Ranger and Necro suffers WAY WAY WAY more than Mesmer ever could have imagined, like more than 2 years of being literally unviable, proven by statistic in almost all game modes. (Well, at least Necro is good at WvW, but Ranger is bad at ALL game modes. PVE Meta= Ele, Thief, War, Guardian, Mesmer. WVW Meta = GWEN and “sometimes” Mesmer. PVP Meta = WEETG and “sometimes” Mesmer)
3. If you test at something and find anything OP of other classes, feel free to post there instead of trying to justify the currently OP build. It is a very VERY weak argument.
What’s the problem then? Compare to insane burning spike from Ele, this is really nothing special.
Massive amounts of condi clear, insane amount of evades, huge toughness buff, pet buffs, quickness and stacking 30+ bleeds etc etc etc. It’s the old build on steroids. Try it for yourself
What’s the problem then? Compare to insane burning spike from Ele, this is really nothing special. It’s funny that the thief you fought didn’t even use retreat after immobilize.
Oh of course they nerfed wars already. As a point if note, rangers get +20% if a target is bleeding with no icd and they bleed on crit (both traited). So permanent 20% bonus, and 1500 range with the ability to do back to back rapid fire. Balance.
I can safely tell you that Ranger is the only class that loses MOST OF THE DAMAGE MODIFIER post patch.
Other classes, like thieves, not only get WAY MORE DAMAGE MODIFIER, but also has new tool like CONVERT PRECISION TO FEROCITY (it literally increases crit damage by 13%!).
Sounds like a serious case of the whines to me. As I’ve said several times today; crying for nerfs and claiming the class isn’t “skilled” enough doesn’t make you cool.
If you don’t feel challenged please go away. I’ve waited years to be able to play shatter effectively. It’s idiotic to encourage ANET to nerf Mesmer when we have seen they are likely to trash anything we find effective anyway.
Please just leave and play something else.
No, you merely waited years for your shatter build to be OP.
It WAS effective all along, and was used by high-level competitors ALL THE TIME (Some teams even utilize TWO of them). You didn’t care about Mesmer, you care about having an easy time of being OP.
Keep crying and mocking everyone here for “destroying your good time of being OP”. The nerf is inevitable if most people agrees it’s OP. Also, everyone has the right to post as long as it doesn’t break the forum roles. You have no right to ask people to leave.
This is sad. We have what we asked for!!! Why complain. Checking on golems!!! What can a warrior do with a golem. The golem doesn’t move dodge anything.
Pretty sure no-one ask for PU buff… And then they went all the way to give it 100% more duration.
Also most mesmers were asking more survival options and diversity, not insane burst damage and infinite lock-down.
Funny when I pointed out the GS bug/perma invi/insane burst, and Mesmer becoming quite out of hand, someone suddenly refers me as “thief/ranger troll” , and then this post comes out and people are agreeing with him. Hypocrisy is real.
I agree that its too early to tell if DPS is too high. People are used to running glass builds and will either need to adapt to stay glassy or will need to sacrifice some of their glassiness for more sustain. As the meta shifts, you’ll be able to gauge better if its going in the right direction or the wrong direction.
You need time to figure out not just your own builds but the builds that other classes are using. Once you gain more experience figuring out what you need to watch out for from other classes, incoming DPS will naturally decrease from what you’re experiencing now.
I used to run a berserker glass build pre-patch and noticed that I was having trouble staying alive after the patch with DPS so high. This is not necessarily a bad thing as I’m trying out different builds now that I would not have considered in the past (e.g., more defensive amulets and traits). Also, I’m enjoying the playstyle for what it is as its a change of pace from the past and we may not see it again once balancing occurs.
If you set the bar high, then there’s that much more you can strive for and part of the fun of playing is seeing how far you can push yourself.
Must be fun that when capping a node, a perma invisible mesmer come out of stealth right beside you and burst you down with shatter f1 f2 f3 f4 spam directly from 17k hp → down. Watch for what? Can I see invisible things?
Vit may have some usage, but toughness is near useless now.
I play an rabid engi and still got instant gab from 16k -> 2k by a scepter ele in less than 2 seconds, as if my toughness is not there to begin with.
Before the patch, medi guardians (gs / s-f) were the bane of rangers, and thieves were just so-so counters. After the patch, rangers got a huge buff to their damage but they have not realized it yet. Nobody I have seen is using the dangerous traits “yet”.
As a ranged weapon fan in other games, I think the Ranger in GW2 is not broken, but boring. I love my Ranger but can not stand to play with it too much. It is very easy to counter, and provides little support for the party. If you have a problem with the ranger, ask a mesmer, necro, guardian, thief, or ele to deal with it. It will be easy for them.
Beast-Master Line is pretty much the most dangerous trait-line ranger has to offer, and I’m using it right now cuz it’s so good. Quick Draw is just so-so cuz the duration is so short (4s), and only triggers when the channel ends. So for RF, you have to use it in 1.5 second after you swap weapon.
Like:
1. Lead the Wind (for obvious reason)
2. Refine Toxin (That extra poison is gold when sniping afar, it basically directly hitting ele and War hard before even engaging. Makes me able to drop spider )
3. Whole BM line (Never know I’d like the new BM so much. Weakness and CC spam to mess up foe’s rotation is so useful)
4. Quicken zephyr (Super Speed + Quickness is such a great combination. It almost ensures the foes can’t escape!)
5. Survival Knowledge (obvious reason)
Things that I’m disappointed:
1. Quick Draw (4 secs is really too short. It forces me to use up RF quickly, making foes easier to counter me. It’s even harder to use with Barrage. You have to finish channeling b4 Quick Draw expires)
2. Off-hand (radius..)
3. Spirits (active skills are slow as hell, radius super small w/o trait, immobile, worthless in PVP/WVW. What’s your promise Anet!?)
The new Beastmaster is just too good not to pick. It makes you a CC bot that screw over people’s defensive measure. On the contrary, I’m abit disappointed about the Quick Draw which only lasts for 4 seconds. The impact is not as big as having free cc + weakness bots.
For that single trait it’s really abit too much. I don’t even use boon duration stuff and still 12 stacks of might by spamming 1. On the other hand, there’re traits that trigger at 50% health and only grant 1 might per second for 8 seconds, resulting in 8 stacks of might from staying at <50% health and it’s a GM trait with no additional effect..
Nice balance.
Yeah mesmers have tons of skills that can basically oneshot a squishy target from 1500 range in 2.5 seconds (or less with quickening zephyr). Nice balance!
Thankfully, the game isn’t balanced around single skills or traits.
Have you not seen a Mesmer post patch dishing out 16k damage in one combo (less than 1.5 second), and the downed 3 phatasm dealing 6.5k damage? You can play blind idc, but I’m testing it right now. I’ll test and report what I see and experience instead of hiding it like you guys, fearing for a nerf despite you knew it’s OP.
Scary community. Now reporting bug causing me to get flamed.
For that single trait it’s really abit too much. I don’t even use boon duration stuff and still 12 stacks of might by spamming 1. On the other hand, there’re traits that trigger at 50% health and only grant 1 might per second for 8 seconds, resulting in 8 stacks of might from staying at <50% health and it’s a GM trait with no additional effect..
Nice balance.
So instead of “clones using auto attack grant might”, it actually works with the normal auto attack, even when out of combat. I can literally pre-stack up to 12 stacks of might by just blindly clicking auto-attack on GS.
Anyway, Mesmer is really becoming extremely OP post patch. Shatter spam, insane spike damage, perma cripple, lots of lock down, perma invisible, etc. GJ with the balance.
Yeah.. the damage going out from every single class is insane.. There’s no skilled play going on at all whatsoever, people are just mashing buttons and people are melting.
An engineer literally threw Shrapnel grenade on me on it’s own, and with all the procs that went with it, it was enough to get my health down to around 35%.. how the kitten is this balanced?
Go check mesmer… 16K -> 0 in 1.5 second is not a dream anymore. On top of that he’s coming out from stealth thanks to OP stealth buff. Phantasm from down skill dealing 6.5k damage in pvp is LOL too. Oh, and that nice GS trait bug, spamming auto-attack grant you like 14 stacks of might, on top of permanent cripple from 2345. Nice changes Anet.
