Condi – highest DPS support
Power – best utility support
Here’s the thing. If you’re going Power (cleric / zealot / magi / berserker…) than your group will definitely have much easier time beating the content. If your group is made of pure elitists than going power is a waste of time since they don’t need heals.
If you’re playing condi – you’ll fail the difficult content 90% of the time, but you can boast to people that you were playing meta and they suck (so much win, right… ?).
The honest truth is that pugs are bad. They really are. Most of the time they’ll just come without a slightest clue expecting to beat Sebetha (3rd boss of 1st raid wing) with a power of friendship alone.
Meta is a lie. While condi is better for elite content, it’s far worse at casual pugging. Power is much more versatile and can adapt to a lot more situations.
So the answer for the end of the day?
Stick to whatever makes your game enjoyable (be it condi or power) but adapt your traits and utilities according to your party and always bring Frost Spotter to your party alongside with Grace of the land (druid) trait.
That’s it. Druid is not brought into content for personal DPS but for solely for these buffs.
Sorry, this is not how advertising works.
I doubt you’ll get viewers like this.
I don’t stream myself, but out of curiosity, what would you do if you had a stream you wanted to ‘advertise’?
1st of all, I’d think twice about what do I offer.
IF it really is something that hasn’t been here before – then I’d come here and write a short description of what I do – so people interested in it could come and entertain themselves.
An impulsive headline that forces you into something with 3 exclamation marks with nothing but a link as comment …
I don’t know. Am I the only one who knew this looks exactly like a virus or thrash-video ever since I installed Windows XP?
Condis were only really coming from the traps…but this guy wa sin and out of stealth a LOT…i mean like every 5 seconds he was poofin away…and when we would get him close to down, out comes the staff and he goes from almost no health up to 3/4 full in like 2 skills…i just can’t figure it out.
I personally dislike the idea of that concept strictly because a mechanic similar to this has been present in a different game and it has never been used for anything but fooling around.
It would never have any real use and would require tons and tons of work to make it worthwhile… All while still sacrificing something you have (ranger spells) for something … you already have.
For scouting we have thieves. For deception and escape … We have thieves. Or Mesmers. And this idea is vastly subpar to any of those.
That is exactly what is happening to me. I am testing his build, which is pretty solid btw, but when facing meta builds the stability spam is too strong. If i don’t have my team to back me up i am pretty sure dead. And i don’t know if its only me but its harder to solo defend your home point in this build, ofc we must take in consideration that i only played it for a couple hours, so not that used to the build yet.
Gratz on Legendary, OP!
OP stated that the build is different to be played.
I, especially, had lots of trouble playing this sort of builds. My playstyle was much more passive. I always knew what and when to counter/evade but I was bad at pressuring the “open-windows” and hitting during them.
This build rewards you greatly for hitting at the right time but if you miss the windows – you’ll get punished. You’ll technically run out of cooldowns and that’s it.
The build looks interesting and very few people would expect it. I’m not sure if Power Shatter mesmer couldn’t take up on it’s role while providing more utility, though. Mesmer’s burst is also ten times more difficult to notice.
Also, congratz on the Legendary, OP.
If you go for something as … LB+Staff; Power, Preci, Healing, Vita stats, you should get what you are looking for.
I’d like someone else to second me on this or prove it wrong since I have never really played WvW much…
Could something like this do ? Technically a mid-range poker with on demand AoE stun+stun-break that can stealth his allies with Celestial Shadow and Staff#3 + Smokescale combo?
I’d think this would be fine if you’re fighting backline as a “sniper”. There used to be sniper duties in zerg- and blob-fights, where snipers were ordered to snipe down the commander or other key figures.
Wouldn’t Marksmanship for Lead the Wind be needed in that case?
Instead of Nature Magic, I guess.
Condi was a way to go for non-HoT. It was some time ago but I remember my guildies play core stealth trapper all the time even if they could have played druid.
He is easy to play but maybe hard to master in PvE. The thing is you don’t need to pay attention to any rotations. You always just adapt.
Your personal DPS is garbage in party content but you are very efficient in the open roaming and events.
Yes, Ranger is a good class for PvE. You might end up being just a support (both offensive and defensive) in party content, but it’s definitely a powerful asset for the party.
It works for me this particular season and has proved more useful than some of the other builds I’ve played this season. It stands in my list of top builds.
But we all know that a cloud thrown by a master can beat a knife thrown by a newbie. If no one else, You should be aware that nothing improves performance as much as preference.
That particular build provides zero burst damage, worse CC and utility than a LB build, it is dead meat against conditions or any pressure of that sort and cannot even decap.
You can’t expect everyone to be on your level. If you were to determine which is the strong part of the build… It has none. Having the bunker Sword+Dagger/Staff would do the exact same thing as a shortbow. Not only it has better DPS, it even has more evades. With Quick Draw twice the amount.
If you go for something as … LB+Staff; Power, Preci, Healing, Vita stats, you should get what you are looking for.
I’d like someone else to second me on this or prove it wrong since I have never really played WvW much…
Could something like this do ? Technically a mid-range poker with on demand AoE stun+stun-break that can stealth his allies with Celestial Shadow and Staff#3 + Smokescale combo?
I’m feeling doubtful upon seeing a sbow in a pvp build
The power shortbow build with no stun breaks and healing spring as the condi removal?
No…… no I have not tried that…..
Doubling this. With Light on your Feet instead of Quick Draw. And no Druidic Clarity … There seems to be way too much wrong in the build. Meta or not, I wouldn’t try the build. Ever.
It might seem short-sighted as I don’t play anymore and only check forums every now and then – but the build doesn’t have any of the strengths that Ranger ever had.
Yep, excellent damage, considering the speed, the piercing, being unreflectable ragne attack(beam). When you see this weapon being used as the main dmg dealer weapon for most roaming builds, it should light a bulb for you.
This can come from only as a response from a Ranger player that has not been thought over enough.
You can compare this weapon to other Ranger weapons and say the damage is okay. But if you say the damage is excellent even compared to other classes – you’ll come out of this thread as a clown. Bulb or not.
The whole staff idea is nothing more than a CAF filler and roaming stick. Nothing more. (Notice how neither support or rooting is present in the use of staff. Yep, it needs a huge buff)
If nothing changed since I played, having
2x: Spotter, Frost Spirit, Glyph of Empowerment
1x: Sun spirit (condi subgroup)
Was the highest DPS you could squeeze. Don’t forget Vipers deal a nice chunk of Direct damage, as well. Ranger is the only class that deals vast majority of Viper damage in condi. The other classes are more hybrid.
Moreover, Even if the Frost Spirit was to be excessive – it would affect pets as well. When DPS comes to mind – there is no other utility to be able to compete with Frost Spirit.
Naturally, other utilities are sometimes more valuable. Depends on skill-cap of your squad and encounter. Sometimes you don’t need the DPS.
Because no matter how badly you trash talk us, no matter how much you despise us, no matter how much you don’t want us in Dungeons, Fractals, or PvP …. we still care enough about you to scrape you off the floor.
This one, Sir, deserves a legendary medal…
It has moved my heart and driven it into tears.
So maybe this is already known to ppl but i was playing around and noticed with smokescale that i can use F2 when the skill is at cooldown.
Its on 20 sec cooldown (not traited) and i can use it again when it still on 7 seconds cooldown.
When traited its 15 sec cooldown and i can use it again when its on 5 sec cooldown.
I tested it also with bristleback and some none HoT pets and the same bug happens.
I can use wolf fear about 15 seconds before the cooldown is ready
i dont mind lower cooldowns, but should get fixed
edit : the bug does not seem to happen in pvp, but does so in wvw
edit 2 : holy smokes, i cant seem to recreate the bug anymore, am i going crazy?
There used to be a bug when a swapped pet kept a “chilled” debuff even if none was applied. Naturally – this was visual only and never had any real effect on game-play apart from F2 CD lie.
You could use any skill when a real CD passed regardless of what the F2 indicator said. Could it have been this one?
@Diak Atoli
I’m pretty sure Bountiful Hunter doesn’t increase condition damage. Your poison damage can naturally be increased by taking the Poison Master trait instead of Wilderness Knowledge.
And with this setup, you should definitely consider Sun and Frost spirit instead of Zephyr and Signet. Quick Draw as a replacement of Light on Your Feet is advised.
Your DPS will never be top noch so your contribution comes from supporting your group. Since you didn’t take druid – your only choice comes from spirits.
Oh, also, getting We Heal as One instead of Troll Unguent is a very solid pick. It’s a burst heal and keeps you mighted (Companion’s Might synergy), just like it can be paired with Zephyr’s Speed trait for prolonging the Quickness by a bit. That heal boosts the DPS by a lot if you’re not constantly 25 mighted.
Sure u wont have any problems with this but u wont be as useful as other builds. Axe/dagger is a condi focused weaponset and with the bounce-nerf on axe (only 1 bounce now) it isnt useful on a power build. The gear will give u a lot of tankyness but i dont need it. With this gear u r a tanky ranger who deals no dmg and have a little bit of heal. Not useful. Totally uneffective. Only viable if u are the tank of the group.
Must not play ranger. It is top build for ranger.
You poor thing, I’m so sorry.
I think we need a Tragic Positive intervention here.
It is definitely plenty far from being top … But it might not be critically bad, either.
A lot depends on the traits he uses. For example, if he runs the perma-lock Fractal babysitter I used or any of it’s variation – it doesn’t really matter what stats does he use. That build negates damage income by 70% (doesn’t work on bosses).
P/V/T is far from being optimal but if he used something with healing power instead (Cleric is my personal favorite) – he’d be a much welcome member of the party. Naturally, it’s far from “being best” but given the fact we bring low DMG regardless – it’s fine as long as he knows his stuff and brings what Rangers are for – support.
I could “intervene” only if I knew anything about his traits. I might be strict and straightforward but I never point people out without a reason or proof. Plus – he said he doesn’t have any problem, which implies he has the skills and can make up for his stats. So where’s the harm? Just like you said – he might as well be the tank of the group. I’d definitely prefer Cleric, but one strategy of fast clear involves a tank.
Naturally, his setup is inferior to lots of others I can come up with right here and now … But if he can afford role-playing … Why shouldn’t he? Highest fractals are a nightmare without any druid of kind. Tank druid is helpful, Healer druid is helpful, for experienced runs the Viper is helpful… You just need to know what you are doing.
It’s always about that “Enjoy and let others enjoy” unlisted rule. Meta is a lie and applies to roughly 15% of the whole game. The real game is completely different.
Was your description of GotL 5 stacks 17% including the Gylph of Empowerment and Frost spirit?
These numbers are always only for demonstration. Every class has at least some mixed damage in specific ratio that varies from class to build which makes Spotter, Frost Spirit and GoEmpowerment impossible to mathematically count.
But:
-GotL gives 15% DPS but is not constant and drops. Rough uptime may be around 5-10% overall DPS.
-Frost Spirit gives 7,5% Direct Damage. None for Condi.
-Spotter gives 7,14% crit. Varies from class to class (roughly 8% Power DPS; 1% Condi traits)
GoEmpowerment gives 3,5% Direct Damage. None for Condi.
If we take into consideration that boosts multiply, not add – we might end up at around 38% peak moments, but realistic overall DPS increase is roughly around exactly those 20% or less.
I had a great success with Clerics.
You should never go for too much toughness as I believe you are already aware, though.
You have to think for yourself when comes to gearing. Because for every single kind of squad/party you need something different.
Zealot: Elitist Healing setup (expansive)
Magi: Casual Healing setup (cheap)
Cleric: Most efficient for babysitting but might cause aggro management problems
I was fine in almost any raid with Cleric gear only, paired with Zerk jewellery. I also used Zealot Staff.
Don’t worry about healing power that much. If people die – they die to instant kills or cannot dodge stuff – meaning they’ll later again even if you heal them once.
I don’t remember going anywhere near 1000. Ever.
I usually ended up around 700. With food and modifiers that should be just enough.
Having tried it in scrims, the survivability you loose from dagger seems to not be worth it. But time will tell, people may be too used to the survivability they could rely on from dagger OH still.
I used warhorn as a very powerful stealth tool paired with SmokeScale. Stealth can be taken as a defensive variation.
WS/NM/DR by playing LB+S/Wh. I had more than enough means to get to CAF, had a surprising nuke (WH#4+LB#2+Smoke Assault) and my team loved that I could constantly Stealth the downed for double revive (with pet from NM).
But what’s the most important – it had way too much stealth. By the rule “you can’t hit what you don’t see” – I could play full berserker and just dance around in stealth, constantly forcing 1-3 people to track me down off points and yet I mostly survived and rotated elsewhere → repeat.
The alternative is, if it were to revert back to an auto-target, the projectile must be changed to a free-air projectile rather than traveling on the ground. In trade for losing directional control, the gain would be doing things such as pulling enemies from the top of keeps and cliffs.
I like the change. Its a good step forward in my opinion. I like the warhorn as a weapon in general, but as said: the buff is not large enough to make it meta-ish.
It’s actually now an incredible and awesome weapon for non-meta runs.
Imagine your party is not might stacked and you don’t have an Engie. You can provide 15 permanent might to whole party and lots of vulnerability, just like perma fury and swiftness.
Ever since you are to be the support, you might as well squeeze the most of it.
Naturally – the weapon is useless in meta scenario where targets are 25 vuln capped and PS warrior rolls his head on the keyboard.
If you really want to see SotW’s true power play a berserker or marauder pet boon share build, get yourself 25 might stacks, pop SotW, PBS, rapid fire, and CAF #5… Toss in a pet taunt & protect me taunt as needed to hold them down and they are dunzo…
This didn’t work anywhere outside of aluminum foil league.
It is way too situational and requires way too much presetting and is easily countered, as well.
SotW has incredibly long Cooldown. It matches the CD of an Elite and is our 2nd only way to get stability. All our stability sources can actually get interrupted which is not fine. Either SotP or SotW should be instant. CAF #5 procs stability instantly but is short-lasting and makes you stationary.
the only thing, that i would change with druid is astral force gain through dolyak runes
its to much in my opinion
It’s quite weak if you ask me. It takes more than a minute to build 100% CAF. 67 seconds to be precise. That’s an awful lot.
Resounding Timbre does the job.
I on the other hand am disappointed at how little we get by dealing damage. If our damage filled 2,5% of our CAF up from 0,75%
(40% from Warhorn #4; 25% from Rapid Fire, Full from Barrage on 4 targets – static on 30 sec CD = balanced; CAF would fill in 20 seconds by staff #1 on 3 targets without any heal done, ), lowering income from periodic healing ticks (Regen, Staff #1, SotW and Dolyak Rune) to 0,75% from 1,5%
would be totally amazing (increased time needed to go from 0 to 100% to 27 seconds up from 14 seconds from 5-men AoE regen).
PvE, got better for pulling mobs in since you can target behind them faster instead of just aiming for the guy in the back.
Don’t forget you don’t have to worry it will blast off into the void just like Team Rocket used to when facing a wall or a cliff. You’ll now always get both hits off if you don’t mess up and your target doesn’t move too fast. That – you couldn’t do on a lot of occasions before.
I still think the change to sword was an improvement by far.
… But of course they couldn’t just avoid nerfing us in the process. That’s what I hated.
Hundreds of player complained about it. We got what we asked for and a lot of players are thankful for that. I haven’t seen many of you to go against the proposal when forums were flooded with demanding this sword change.
The only good thing about their changes, Sharpening Stone included, is that we are finally getting some attention.
The changes still mostly have absolutely nothing in common with balance but now, at least, we feel like our recreational play got some important QoL updates.
@Bast Bow
Well, let me demonstrate how “Class was nerfed” works.
We couldn’t compete with other classes at most of roles. The only we were viable at was small-scale skirmishing. That could be rated at areas like Mobility, Sustain, Damage, Utility, Disruption…
And our top build tried to go for as much rating for the least sacrifice as it could. Other builds have worse overall rating. And even if our subpar areas were buffed – they wouldn’t ever come anywhere near close to other classes there.
There’s no point in buffing areas where different classes dominate by far. Our reason to be picked was nerfed. Role-playing was buffed. And with all due respect – a lot of bearbows already give us a headache with role-playing.
If our top and most used build with a rating of (let’s say) 7 is nerfed to 6, while builds that go with rating of 4 are buffed to 5 at a role where other classes that go with 8 – that’s something that just tells they don’t go the right direction with balance.
And how that helps developers?
We were one of the very few who actually believed the developers and always tried to work around the nerfs they threw at us, while other classes (warriors and eles, mostly) kept craving their insults and complaints at almost every buff they got. And the fun fact was that they were buffed again.
To be frank – a company wants money as every adult man. And a satisfied customer is not their target. The customer who still might buy the product is. And what will probably sell the product ? A positive reference they certainly won’t get from upset customers who regret their purchase.
The most efficient build we got was nerfed, while stuff that no one used and probably no one will for e-sports were buffed.
We were nerfed in the actual picture.
Actually,
It’s a nice place to vent. That’s about it. If you come and vent here, you are less likely to actually stop playing the game lowering their future income. It’s technically genius, isn’t —-it?
Applying aoe bleed with this skill would be too much. It is fine as-is.
You mean like being actually viable in comparison to Spike Trap ? Especially when Spike Trap in synergy with Ancient Seeds goes way beyond Sharpening Stone even on single target?
Well … Yea. It is fine as it is. Because we’ll endure it like we have for 4 years, soon. “It’s fine” is what we tell ourselves every single time we go out with subpar changes or nerfs.
Entangle is a survival skill, so not a trap. I hope Anet will someday give us some new elites, seeing as most of the rangers take RaO or Entangle. (Anyone that takes Nature Spirit?)
I sometimes took it for Raids when I knew my squad was bad.
A revive on 4 second cast time is still a revive.
Sure, knockbacks can potentially cause problems, but I rarely see this happening in practice. In fractals and raids big foes have break bars and can’t be knocked back so there is no issue here. Little foes die so fast to sword auto attack/off hand axe who cares, right?
Noobs care because their “hard hitting” attacks miss. Their group dps is so low they really need those “hard hitting” attacks to hit. I mean seriously, for every misplaced Mesmer knockback I have path of scars, or arrows to mop up misplaced foe in fractions of a second.
These trolls complaining about the skill has nothing to do with PvE.
I believe we are both on the right track talking about the same thing.
The issue is always the player, not the class.
Ranger is unfortunately the class player pick up on when then don’t want to learn since a lot does AI by itself. You can’t deny this. A lot of baddies play this class. More than other classes from my experience.
…
… Okay, I remember having awful expectations of guardians as well, but that’s about it.
At pro play, you can technically evade one more time every 10 seconds thanks to vigor.
Which is the same cooldown as the Purity trait.
And with the evade you can evade 7 stacks of burning and 14K damage, while you can burn the whole cooldown for nothing but a cleansed cripple.
The scenario is exaggerated but demonstrates how it works.
Not to mention that the Vigor goes for 5 people, you included.
No, no, no. I am a Ranger and I am in here. I am saying if knockback bothers you, you are most likely a noob using an inferior build and play-style. Just to be clear…
Cleave is one of the most efficient ways to handle any situation, be it PvP or PvE. Knockback at a wrong situation can potentially end up in unnecessary 4 gap closer CDs of your team.
There are times where knockbacks are a harm to you and your party. This cannot be denied. If you cannot understand this simple fact – I wouldn’t dare pointing fingers at other people.
You don’t get it too? I would welcome buffs but in a more spread out and synergistic way than dumping everything into one single utility skill. Is that so hard to comprehend? The first page listed many great ideas already then I suggested a breakstun + stab on lower cooldown then came this guy with this kittened idea that no we suck we need everything concentrated into one utility skill so we can leave all the dumb traits untouched. So smart.
The thing is that there’s more than a ton of ideas about how our abilities AND traits can be improved or simply straight buffed …
And your idea literally torn several builds that people play apart. Your suggestion was not an improvement – it was technically a rework for players who never used it at a cost of gameplay of people who use it today.
He wasn’t technically gluing everything into one ability. He just improved the one we already have in a specific way. You, on the other hand, forced people into 2 signets instead of one in case they want to keep their former SotW builds.
I am not really that shocked he called you clueless – because in this point of view – you were. I don’t mean it as an offense. It’s perfectly natural not to know something you haven’t thought of before. But even if it doesn’t feel friendly – people who tell you straight are the ones that you can learn from.
I am sorry for his behavior, but I believe you understand me and his position when I tell you we both have suffered from conversations, forum trolls and plain kittens who just came here to get us nerfed … and it became exhausting after a time. It also gets frustrating to explain the same things over over and over again.
If I were to change the signets – I’d definitely try to keep the use of SotW. When it comes to SotH – that is a signet you can brainstorm around. That is a signet that literally no one uses or ever will and makes a perfect subject for rework or change of mechanics.
I feel like the share amount of Immob that a Druid can pump out is a little bit asinine, Immob on so many things, procing so many times, it’s annoying.
I both agree and disagree here.
The mathematical duration is indeed way too long. But the practical duration is almost non-existent.
The duration can be blown off by simply dealing damage to the roots, or having any means of reducing condition duration. That way – you’ll only be rooted for less than a second and you’ll be free to move out of roots and ignore the whole skill.
Our elite and our Grandmaster trait are the most powerful, yet the easiest to play against means of immobilize.
If they become reliable (roots cannot be destroyed and proc every 0,5 seconds instead of every second), I’d be all in for having the durations nerfed.
Holy kitten i just want breakstun with stab don’t fill me in with your nonsensical rants tyvm i know what other classes can do, but you don’t even think what happens when your suggestion get adopted, how many QQ thieves, mes, necs, ele would come to this forum. we’ll direct them to you when that happens.
Ignorant. I’m done with you.
We’d actually get on par with other classes when it comes to personal performance. That would happen. Of course other classes want us to stay bad. No one wants to lose to a class that has been considered one of the most awful ones for almost 4 years.
If we become at least as powerful as other meta classes, I can get over all the cries and tears of baddies and newbs. That’s a price we all can pay.
Now that we all know that you just want rangers to suck, shall we call it a day and ask you to ignore this thread so other possible ideas how to improve ranger are shared?
It makes a bit of sense. I still think that Druids are one of the most vulnerable to focus fire which makes them a very debatable pick for games where stacking is allowed …
…
But I think you guyz have a point. In the end, it seems like none of us was wrong.
knockback I have path of scars, or arrows to mop up misplaced foe in fractions of a second.