In all fairness though there are a few points to be seen there; maybe just not elaborated enough.
Personally I hate the fact that I can be finished while someone is in stealth because 1) I can’t see them and 2) I can’t defend myself :/
I also don’t like the fact that I can be in WvW on a Warrior (no stealth), be just there for mapping purposes, and then just get steam rolled by an entire zerg hidden in stealth.
Stealth is maybe a bit OP because it can be maintained. If there was a short 3 second cool down before you could re-enter stealth regardless of being revealed or not; the problem would be solved.
There are many things that can be improved. Whether or not anyone cares to do anything about it is another thing.
You can get steamrolled by a zerg regardless of wheter he is hidden or not and every skill that allows multiple players to stealth has a high cd.
i understand what you mean there but wouldnt Coverage v Coverage make it alot more interesting? As far as i know “the best coverage wins” and matches liek that would be really close
And this dear sir looks balanced to you? 2v1ing necros….killing guardians in 4 hits….being able to come out of tons of situations because of your many survivability tools.
Keep it up though. Nothing like your videos to prove my point.
Let assume every stun would only last 1 second and the healing was cut by half.
I am pretty sure he would have still won every fight except against the guardian.
And killing a Guardian who apparently wears full zerker gear with four hits isn´t really surprising.
Only those invaders weapons available for karma can be used in the mystic forge.
I think its a mistake on side of the wiki as rare and exotic weapons share the same name.
@Lighter
He says condition warriors are easy to beat for him despite the fact he uses no condition cleanse on his mesmer.
Therefore his question why we use such a apparently weak build.
Yea, i stopped reading here, you basically saying that you are getting owned by conditions without spec ing any in condition defense. that’s like saying i keep getting killed by enemy attacks because i don’t use my heal, my enemy must be easy mode.
don’t know if you are trolling or just being an idiot.
I beg your pardon?
I’ve clearly stated that I have 0 condition cleanse on MY mesmer; tell me where I said mesmers have no access to condition defense, please.
Seriously, people on the Warrior forums really need to improve their reading abilities, out of 3 replies I had 2 were totally out of place.
Guys, what I am asking is the purpose of a condi warrior. Granted, maybe the opponents I met were not so skilled, but I really had no problems against them, both as a thief and as a mesmer. I would include as an Elementalist too, since it is by far the class which has the best condi cleanse at my disposal.
What classes/combinations should be afraid of LB/S+S condi warriors? Guardians maybe?
Read again. He says that he can beat them easily with his mesmer.
How do you kite a Warrior (or any other class) with such a build layout? Exactly what was said; use Veggie Pizza, condition duration Runes/Sigils, and/or even trait into the line giving condition duration.
the center of the aoe ring on the first picture isnt visible from the gate gap though (is it possible to aim through that gap? o.o, wouldnt it have to be right up next to the gate?)?
From that position I could have destroyed your ACs. I don´t know if the area would be exactly the same as in your pic but it comes very close.
I don´t know if it is possible to do with a AC that stands farther away from the gate.
Now that (almost) every warrior is using this build, and the fact that warriors are the most played class, I and many other people on the forums in different professions have had to make builds just to find how to counter all these stuns.
I’m not saying stunlock, unlimited healing warriors are OP but when every single class has to change traits and runes just to counter one class, it becomes OP.
(not replying to anything replying to this post, warriors are impossible to argue with)
Maybe someone else can answer my question.
Was heavy cc ever a problem before those changes?
Edit:
Do you need to post the same text in three threads?
That if the problem about Mace/shield + GS build is being unreadable because of mace, that is also my problem.
You can get the same CC out of hammer the issue is hammer animation are slow and punish those not paying attention. This makes sense. The problem is mace shield has quick animations and some of the hardest to spot in the game. What compounds this issue is recent healing changes the capability to block something hammer inherently does not have. So countering hammer while simple can still challenging. Ranged DPS is a flat out counter so are blinds and evade. If you get caught it is your fault and its all over. Mace shield on the other hand is defensive enough to mitigate much of the damage in pursuit of the target and still pack out CC quicker on a single target. There is very little counter play because the animations are so fast.
There is more to this but I outlined it yesterday and before that and have no need to again. Factually in terms of access to blocks CC mobility and the traits being too good for adept the build is factually OP.
I believe you misunderstood him. He uses M/S + H.
M/S for the stun and the hammer for dps.
With this he has the ranged block, the quick animations and apparently the same dps as with the GS build.
I think you should drop both traps and change Trap Potency to Quick Draw if you are facing a warrior. Since you are using + condi duration food the cripple will not instantly vanish and every second the warrior is crippled helps you.
Stay at distance and apply conditions with the shortbow.
I would suggest that you use Runes of the Afflicted which will give you additional poison duration.
I don´t know if it works but can´t you use the evades on your meele weapons if the enemy for example uses Bull’s Charge?
I was never talking from a thief’s perspective, How would a ranger or D/D ele deal with it? oh right, still stay at range and try to CC an un-CCable build, gotcha.
Stop trying to come up with excuses, you know the build is OP. And at this point no one has commented on why a single build has high DPS, high sustain, high mobility, CC immunity, condition immunity and 50% stun uptime potential AT THE SAME TIME
I’m sure you’re talking about those unrootable and uncrippable Skull Crack Warriors that 100B kill you in a stun… in that case, play extremely aggresive at first and force their stability and condition cleanses as soon as you can. Remember, he has more burst but you have more sustain. Always break only his Mace stun, ignore his shield and other sources of control. If you manage to waste their stability soon, try to kite him or control him while applying pressure. If you run out of stunbreakers and he’s still alive, try to predict his next Skull Crack and do a wolf fear or precast Troll’s Unguent, you can actually survive a Skull Crack+100B combo that way. You have a 15 second window when TU is down, which you can cover by using your own stability or control/kiting skills. You know a SC is coming if you see he’s staying long enough on Mace/Shield or is chaining Mace daze+shield stun to make you waste stability or a stun braker soon.
Some clever Warriors will try to disengage from you with Greatsword when you used your stun breakers, and will come back for a second round while your CDs are down… don’t let him do that, you have as much mobility as him, always keep appying pressure on him, don’t let him catch you on that position with a Bow (or low mobility weapon) on you and your weapon swap on CD.
Basically, if you manage your CDs better and force his soon enough, you should have the advantage.
Honestly, as a trap Ranger, Beastmaster Bunker ranger, spirit Bunker ranger or even Signet power Ranger, you shouldn’t have problems with other kinds of Warriors.
I think you are missing the bigger picture. The stun is too long with too short a CD. It really isn’t more complex than this. There is not strong tell and there are other stuns in the common Mc/SH + GS build to dodge. Its hard to keep direct damage going as there is 2 ranged blocks in the build and closing the gap in most cases equal losing.
I understand what you are trying to say but from a practical stand point you can not apply sustained DPs to that build in most cases and the mobility is high enough to make kiting a job (nigh impossible while damaging) rather than a tactic.
Lets break it down. to what the build really is. Due to WvW food buffs, melandru, and dogged march CC skills that aid in kiting are nigh useless. Due to those same food buffs, melandru, and the buff to healing signet sustained is high enough to negate most condition builds 1v1. Due to the stun being 3.45 seconds long with a cd as low as 7 seconds swap on 5 seconds and 100B being a multi hit channel at 3.5 seconds. It is completely possible that if the target does survive the initial volley to repeat the process in 3.55 seconds (dependent on traits).
This is the definition of OP. I do not care if I play the class or build OP is OP and this is OP.
Skull Crack’s stun should be reduced (For comparisons sake longest duration stun in the game shortest CD among non initiative based skills). Unsuspecting Foe should be moved up a tier (for comparison sake Only +50% or more not at master tier). Healing signet isn’t so much OP as it is OP when applied to this build.
On a personal note you guys are starting to sound like the thief community. If its OP its OP but suck it up and admit it is. Stop trying to be like what you kittened about for months. I thought this community was better but I seem to have been mistaken.
Regarding WvW you could use + condition duration food. Or you could use food that gives -40% stun duration and wear melandru runes.
I don’t get why people complain about this build when I have runned a sword/shield hammer build and have totally wrecked classes with that cc. Also before the mace it use to be the hammer burst then switch to gs concept has been around forever why cry now
because now it’s overpowered, whereas before it wasn’t.
I already showed why your opinion isn’t valid on the end of page two. Please leave our forums and stop trying to start arguments here.
Why is it not valid? I killed pretty much all warriors prior to this patch, and after patch I lost to quite a few warriors, don’t you think this is strange and suggest that they were overbuffed?
Not really. It could just mean that you haven´t adapted to the new build.
Gaurdians/Rangers/Engineers/Thieves all have higher sustain.
I wasn’t sure if you were trolling or serious until this post.
Thanks for the confirmation. Grats on all the attention you’re getting with your troll post.
Healing signet outsustains every class in the game with zero thought or skill. Equip signet on bar, get best sustain in the game by far. No need for specialized traits, runes, sigils, nada.
Not sure what ANet was thinking.
Do you think sustain is only about the hps you have?
I am not seeing the heal sig as OP, 400 HP per second only equates to 8000hp in 20 sec.
ONLY 8000hp in 20 sec? ONLY? REALLY?
Show me another heal in this game that does 8k every 20 seconds.
You can’t because there isn’t one. Healing signet has the highest HPS of any heal in the game and you don’t even have to use it. Completely broken and overpowered.
Warriors are overtuned for 1v1; they need to be brought down a notch or two, if they can do fine vs 2 or even 3 people.
It’s the combination of stun, mobility, and sustain that makes them a problem. Nerf either 1 of those 3 significantly or all 3 slightly and warrior will be balanced again.
They can do fine against 2 bad players. As any other class can I would presume.
Several counters to this build exists and they are described in this thread. If you don´t use them it is your own fault.
It is really quite obvious that there is an astronomical difference between “farming” and “flipping”.
To demonstrate, let’s take a look at (the soon to be killed) CoF1 farm and compare it to flipping.
If you have 10 players running CoF1 ad nauseum, then each players potential earnings might be 10g per hour (that figure is merely an arbitrary number used as an example). So the amount of gold being added to the economy is 100g per hour.
Now the issue here is that as more and more players cotton onto the fact that CoF1 earns a large amount per hour, they also pile in on the action. Now we have 100 players running CoF1, each earning 10g per hour because they are drawing from an infinitely large resource pool. So now we have 1000g flooding into the economy every hour.
COMPLETELY FALSE!
Those 1000G ends up in a legendary and possibly a good part of it sinks in NPC shops.
Thus 100% vanishes from the game
Soulbound
Taxes and stuff are to combat inflation.
the market parasites instead reinvest…..
Keeping more gold on the market.
A great part of the 1000G ends in the hands of other players because you will most likely buy the necessary mats.
Every time the flipper reinvests 15% of the gold vanish.
What are the other problems?
We still have low damage.
We still have poor sustain (can be easilly kited/killed.)
We are still one of the hardest classes to play.
This is lulzy coming from the highest damage, and one of the highest sustain class. It’s also the class that is widely considered to be ez-mode and faceroll.
Gaurdians/Rangers/Engineers/Thieves all have higher sustain.
Rangers have higher sustained damage, Guardians have higher Sustained Damage, Thieves have higher burst damage.
Please go back to your own forums.
I’ve given you the math on guardians already and proved you wrong. If you want I can do it with other professions. You seem to not have the grace to admit when you’ve been proven wrong though. Should I do it again?
The only things that currently make warriors “op” are that other classes are fairly weak in the stun department. Once more classes get reliable stuns people will hopefully quiet down.
Sustain isn´t only about the healing you have but also the access to boons like protection and vigor.
Sorrow’s Embrace
P1: As Dolan has said projectile reflection is not really necessary. If you can´t do it without it there are other classes who have access to it too.
Mesmer with Feedback, Temporal Curtain and thieves with Smoke Screen.
P2: It is longer yes but that also means that the reward will be higher. There are also several champions which will give you additional loot.
Ascalon Catacombs
P1: I have done it several times without an ele in the group. One player guards Hodgins and the others destroy the burrows. As a warrior with gs or lb I never had any problems with hitting the burrows.
Kohler is already a bonus event. He can be skipped without problems.
Arah
Length: If you don´t have the time do another dungeon.
Giganticus Lupicus is fine in my opinion.
Path 4 is long but otherwise it isn´t so difficult.
AC is so buggy full of stupid events and tons of mobs there will 1 shot you regardless of Dodge or shields.
CM exploration was the worst expierience i have ever had since the dungeon is setup for a TRINITY mmo but there is no kittening way to do that in GW2 making that dungeon allmost imposseble for even full cordinated Groups. lots of AOE packs that deal about 1000 dmg per shot and there is about 5-30 each pack so there is no other way to deal with it but to run pass it and hope you wont get stunlocked to death.
I have done each path of CM several times with pug groups. There isn´t anything you would need coordination for. The only important thing is that you have people with skills that block or reflect projectiles and condition removal.
If there are really enemies in AC that can oneshot you it might be better to change your build.
If somebody wonders what happened to KODA and TLA 5 vs 5. I got invited to a party by Koda member. All I could write was “Hallo” to party chat. Then I was killed by 5 of them. Oh well, 5 vs 1 is almost same as: 5 vs 5.
Can someone smarter then I explain why a simple system of 1st goes up 3rd goes down wouldn’t work? I’m really getting a sense of over complication here…
Every week will have a T1 server playing a T2 and T3 server, no matter what.. this pattern continues all the way down the ladder. IE T2 server will be playing a T3 and T4 server..
No one in T3 will want to win because they’ll get smashed by whatever monster from T1 loses and no one in T2 will want to win because they’ll get thrown in with 2 T1 monsters.
