Guild Wars 2

TSquiggles.2169:

Cyninja.2954:

Aerlen.5326:

I’m level 30. I have 50 levels until then. I do not power level or insta-80 with tomes because I prefer to enjoy the game via map completion. I’m real sure I had no points in Earth, my other ele didn’t either. He’s level 27 and fully specced to Earth. Other eles I asked were also autoed to Earth.

Being able to unlock everything at 80 doesn’t matter. I’m not 80. I have to play her until then with a handicap I didn’t even give her. Not my accident or mistake =/

Then go and play the game and do some hero point challenges. They are specifically for giving players the opportunity to unlock more skills/traits during the leveling process. No need to “rush” to 80 or grind since those are part of the leveling process anyway.

There, problem solved.

I just don’t understand why they would spend my points for me though, defense was literally the last tree I wanted

They had to balance the decision. There are definitely people who want to control their build, and who are into builds. However, I believe there are far, far more people who don’t look at builds at all, hardly ever. I have a guild full of them.

Half my guild is probaby wandering around with no build anyway.

Then there’s someone like me, who has 27 characters. I’m not going to rebuild all of them right away. Resetting trait points would mean my characters have no build. They wrote software that tried to guess.

Since it doesn’t affect characters below level 12 and it doesn’t affect 80th level characters, it’s only leveling characters that are affected and of those, only the ones who don’t like or notice their builds are different. Most people probably don’t.

Plus new characters lower than level 30, don’t have traits unlocked yet anyway. Seems to me, that it doesn’t affect nearly as many people badly as it might seem.

Flatley.1620:

I’m just wondering what all those folk who pre-purchase find out that the expansion actually sucks. Not saying it will, just saying…

They’ll do the same thing that anyone that prepurchases a game does, when it doesn’t work out. They’ll be annoyed.

That said, prepurchasing an expansion for an MMO is a bit different than prepurchasing a game. If you already like the game, and know the direction it’s heading in (I’m pretty sure I do), the chances of me not liking the expansion are fairly remote.

In a worst case scenario, if I add that $50 to the total money I’ve spent on Guild Wars 2 and divide that by the hours I’ve spent enjoy it, I’m still down to only pennies an hour.

Flakkx.2607:

Oddly enough, when I search the forums for “fps” or “frame rate” only my post shows up. That is strange.

Would be much stranger if the search function wasn’t so broken. lol

Kite.2510:

The good!
The City is bright and beautiful.
Lots of hidden stuff to discover.
Troll’s End changed to something equally frustrating, but for good JP reasons this time!
Glad to see a dedicated BL and Guild Building.

The Bad!
While the destroyed LA had 3 city centers, (one for PVPers, one for Dungeoneers and one near the Mystic Toilet) this one for some reason has only one again!
It seems A-net is struggling to make bankers useful (despite crafting stations including a bank) and that’s more visible now as a bank is the closest thing to the Mystic Toilet.
Mystic Toilet Being away from the crafting stations, and so is the tradepost, that takes a few more steps that I would bother to take.
This looks less like a Pirate City and more like a Water Theme park!

The Ugly!
The biggest WOW moments with the old LA where:

• The moment I found the hidden Wispers base inside the rock behind a hidden passage.
• The tents that looked like Waves.
• The Ship turned into a bar/hotel being the tallest building there.

None of them Remained! Not even the Wispers Hideout that was spared from the destruction!
I would like to visit those again, even if it’s just as an instanced area during the old Personal Story.

The old personal story stuff is still the same in the personal story. Any new characters coming through will see the old areas.

Aerlen.5326:

You can’t refund the traits though. I’ve tried. Over and over.

You can’t refund them, because you’re only paying to unlock them now, like skills. Once they’re unlocked they can be changed freely. Once you reach level 80 you’ll have enough points, even doing no skill challenges, to unlock every skill and every trait.

If you want to go faster, find and do skill point challenges to unlock the traits you need.

Shadow.3671:

I don’t get any of this. There’s no tutorial, no instructions, nothing. Everything in the panel is confusing. What was so wrong with my old build that Anet slapped me with this? Looks like I can’t play anymore! Goodbye!

Bye. Shrugs.

I’m enjoying the new system. It’s actually much easier than the old system and all my 80th level characters have everything unlocked with hero points to spare.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Relshdan.6854:

Seera.5916:

Here’s a post by Jon Peters that describes the reasoning behind their decision to apply hero points for you:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first#post5199666

they chose the worst option (because it required the least work/ gave players the least choice…that’s the new motto….remove choices)…..but meh…its kinda nitpicking. all my 80’s had tons of HP’s left over (i think the lowest had 120-ish left)….and most people will want everything for at least one alt of each class for experimenting.

Because it also affects the least amount of people for the least amount of time. New characters won’t have this problem. 80s won’t have htis problem. Characters under level 11 won’t have this problem either.

It’s not really that big a deal, but yes, it is inconvenient. Anet should have definitely spent lots more time to deal with a problem that would work itself out fairly quickly anyway.

Actually, a reset of everyone’s skills and traits to nothing should have been simpler than a system to detect an existing build, allocate Hero Points and choose traits.

I have no idea how long it’s going to take me to earn back the 60 Hero points they shoved into a line I have no desire to level with in the new system because in the old system I’d slotted the only trait I’d unlocked. I enjoy leveling, but part of that is leveling with choices I’ve made, not choices made by an automated system based on choices I made because of the limitations of the prior system. I was looking forward to getting back on that character, now I’m likely to delete and not bother playing.

I’m aware that not-yet-createds and 80’s with a large complement of Hero points are unaffected, but for someone for whom build matters on a leveling character, giving me choice and then taking it away before I even see it is beyond inconvenient. It’s infuriating and unnecessary. I’d prefer that ANet stop treating its players like morons who cannot figure out anything on their own.

If they were going to shove their automated choices down our throats, they should have told us when they first announced the system, “Hey, we’re going to make choices on spending Hero Points for you based on which trait lines you’ve put points in.” Then I might have looked at my L36 and put my two whole trait points (2014 system) into a line I might actually like to have maxed. But no, that would be communicating and that kitten is not allowed.

Defend ANet’s high-handedness in this matter if you want. I’d prefer, though, that you try to walk a mile in my Chain Boots before you do.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. I have multiple 80s. Anet tried to approximate the build we had, somehow, and unlocked those specific traits. As far as I know, they only spent the points for the traits they unlocked. I don’t believe anyone lost any points. I didn’t seem to have lost points. It just looks like you have.

I’ve been on every character and I’ve unlocked every skill and trait line and I have a lot of characters.

What it seems like Anet did is refund all the skill points you would have gotten from leveling and the skill points you got, which is to say the new 398 points for leveling which is enough to unlock ALL traits and ALL skills.

They wrote automated software which tried to approximate your build, so some traits and skills came unlocked and were paid for from the poll of hero points you had after the conversion. I don’t believe you’re buying those skills again, or at least, you’re not paying for them twice.

You’re simply having to unlock them again with refunded points. That’s how I see it. Keep in mind I’ve done it on 27 characters and all of them were able to unlock all the skills and traits, without hero points left over.

Leon Heart XIII.4609:

Even after that blog post I still don’t feel too hot(pun intended) about the expansion pack. Form what we’ve seen and hear so far from anet it doesn’t seem like much content yet it has a 50.00 base price, unless this expansion is up to caliber with expansions like WoW and FF14 then it’s not even worth it tbh. We need Anet to reveal more about the content coming to HoT so I can finally set my mind at ease(or disappointment).

I disagree with this. I think that it doesn’t have to be as much content as a WoW expansion because for the last content free year in WoW, people are paying $15 a month for nothing, and then paying $50 for an expansion that people were done with in a couple of months anyway. This to me is not really a good value.

By contrast, people bought Guild Wars 2 for $60 and got hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands) of hours out of it without paying more.

HoT is the entry gate to the new area. You can wait until more content comes out that feeds off HoT if you like until it becomes worth it, but I’ll be there from the beginning, gaining the new currencies, working on the new legendaries, unlocking my guild hall, leveling my masteries, so when stuff is added, I’m not hopelessly backlogged.

Devata.6589:

I find it amazing how now so many people spend 1/8th of the price of the expansion on some wings, but complain about kitten,- expansion not being worth the price. Sure the two might be related, if you buy those wings you don’t expect kitten,- expansion and if you get kitten,- expansion you expect such wings in the game itself, but it still amazes me… Or do most people simply grind gold for the gems? (But do they then enjoy the game?)

Income usually spikes around an expansion so the people spending money on these things are just a smaller group but can you (if you are one of them) please explain to me why you complain about the $50,- not being worth the content (what might be a valid reason.. I mean for that price I do in fact expect those wings to be a reward in game) but then are fine with such a price for those wings.. how is that worth the price?

But wings are cool! lol

scerevisiae.1972:

of course. but where is the detailed info on what you get for $50? currently it’s a PVE zone , 1 class, and the elite specs, most of which haven’t even been announced. That’s it. That doesn’t seem like $50 of content to me at this point.

Not a PvE zone. A PvE area, which contains more than one zone. We don’t know how many yet. Some people are claiming 3. There may or may not be more than that. And those zones have multiple biomes, making them richer maps than other flat maps. There’s also masteries and guild halls, one of which gives level 80 horizontal progression and can be built upon (which people asked for). Guild Hall, of course, people have been asking for since launch.

And legendary precursor crafting plus new legendaries. Also a continuation of the living story.

There’s far more here than just a new class and specializations.

As the game progresses, it does get better. And it keeps getting better. So many people seem to not realize how much work has gone into making this game better. There are still a lot of people who believe/say it was better at launch…but I don’t think it was. Hell we couldn’t even preview items in the trading post at launch.

With the addition of masteries in HoT, the game will get even better, adding horizontal progression to the end game.

I object to your post, OP. Not because of your opinion, but because of you directing hate at something because of your specific definition of art. I much prefer this look to the original Lion’s Arch and it’s ALL art.

I can’t imagine someone looking at this LA and not seeing something artistic, but I sure wouldn’t use the language you did to try to get your point across. Because it seems most people in this thread aren’t actually agreeing with you. Seems most people think the new LA is beautiful.

Also I don’t believe any city in the game looks even remotely like it. It doesn’t look like Rata Sum. It doesn’t look like the Grove. It sure don’t look like Hoelbrak. Nor does it look like the Black Citadel.

So if you’re talking about Divinities Reach…I can assure you it looks nothing like that either.

To me it looks like an island fortress. It reminds me of settings from Conan. While the ship architecture was certainly original, I don’t see it as more artistic than this, and I don’t see it as more beautiful.

Frankly, I never really loved the original Lion’s Arch, even though I did get used to it. I never really liked the nautical theme.

MMOs are about changed. It changed. Part of playing MMOs is dealing with change. Every change will have positives and negatives. In my mind, decoupling stats from traits was a very good move, even if specific setups are less powerful than the were.

Relshdan.6854:

Seera.5916:

Here’s a post by Jon Peters that describes the reasoning behind their decision to apply hero points for you:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first#post5199666

they chose the worst option (because it required the least work/ gave players the least choice…that’s the new motto….remove choices)…..but meh…its kinda nitpicking. all my 80’s had tons of HP’s left over (i think the lowest had 120-ish left)….and most people will want everything for at least one alt of each class for experimenting.

Because it also affects the least amount of people for the least amount of time. New characters won’t have this problem. 80s won’t have htis problem. Characters under level 11 won’t have this problem either.

It’s not really that big a deal, but yes, it is inconvenient. Anet should have definitely spent lots more time to deal with a problem that would work itself out fairly quickly anyway.

Fester.9328:

Yea, been doing the karka and helping other guildies do it as well, everytime we get one or 2 done, 2 or 3 more show up and away we go again!

Sounds like a lot of work. Glad I’m not in your guild. lol

It’s a transitional problem that probably won’t be fixed, because by the time they fix it, everyone should be past the problem. That’s my guess anyway.

New characters won’t have the problem and 80s won’t either.

Anet just came out with a huge patch. It has a number of bugs. This ZOMG I can’t finish the scavenger hunt on day 1 thing, because I don’t want to use LFG to get to a zone where it’s working is a request that is probably wishful thinking.

Anet was working on getting whispers working and getting other stuff fixed as well. It’s not just a door. This is something that will be around forever. It really doesn’t have to be done on day 1.

Every MMO has priority targets for bugs. Pretty sure this isn’t their highest priority. Especially because there’s an easy workaround.

I’ve been here most of the time too.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Vayne.8563:

Angelica Dream.7103:

I actually was looking at playing other games if Anet was not not going to look after the Veteran’s. But since they reconsidered I am staying and going to pre-order.
I like the game and the $50 will not only give us some new maps ( which I don;t care about) but pay for the new content.

My only concern is after reading the Business Model we will be doing this again in 2-3 years.

Vayne.8563
But they’ve told you, from now on, everyone who buys the expansion is going to get all the previous versions. There’s no reason for you to play the game now and protest in 3 years time. Anet was completely transparent about this.

Fare enough. And when the time comes, if new players get a better deal then the people that made them successful I will have no no problem is moving to a new game.

Note: All the major magazines and independent media blogs support my view.

All major magazines and media blogs do not support your view. But that’s okay. Believe what you want. If WoW and EQ and GW 2 are doing in, in 3 years it’’ll be the norm. Not because you’re getting less, but because there’s no practical way for an MMO to function in this competitive marketplace.

It’ll change as soon as HoT comes out anyway.

I like the patch. There are inevitable bugs. I’m not sure why anyone would expect differently. This is probably the biggest patch we’ve had to date.

The new LA is amazing looking. I like being able to have a build in WvW that remains and resets automatically when I enter WvW. I like that you can lock out your ground targeted spells from going out of bounds now. I like the extra from in my bank from bandit credits and geodes. I like the ability to change ascended armor and wewapons to other stat sets. I love that I can finally use a condition damage build in PvE if I like, and not feel punished by it.

And I love that there’s a new jumping puzzle.

I think this comes from the attempt to put a build in. I don’t think this will be the case on new characters created. It looks like it’s a transitional thing to me.

OP, while it might seem overwhelming, it’s actually a pretty kitten ed good update. Maybe you should join a guild and people can help you through the changes.

Dean Calaway.9718:

I don’t like it how ANet handled this.

They were basically bullied, yet again, into giving out refunds and MORE free stuff… They do this way too often about everything regarding the game.

Before I make the point of the thread, another thing regarding this is refunds for recently bought games. If you bought the game recently, you’re already playing and enjoying it and you will keep playing until HoT gets out.
Why on earth would someone in that position feel entitled for a refund? I would only refund that money if those people got their recently created accounts deleted, and when HoT gets out they can start over again from scratch. You think anyone in that position would take that deal? Probably not, because given that choice they would sure as hell rather shell out that little money so they could keep playing RIGHT NOW.

Now, the argument that “they’re giving us a new profession and no new char slot” was always weak at best, it’s one of those things someone thought about saying and everyone else started repeating.
The game released with 8 professions and only 5 character slots, they didn’t “make” us buy another 3 slots, did they?
How many players today play ALL the professions REGULARLY? Personally I even have repeated professions amongst my characters while other professions in game right now are no where to be found.
Why are people under the impression they HAVE to play a Revenant? I’ve heard the most absurd comments about this, some people are threating this new profession as if it’s going to be over-powered and it’s gonna be a go-Revenant-or-go-home deal.

ANet is really setting a bad example here, give a mice a cookie and he’s gonna want a glass of milk, I honestly don’t see why would anyone think they have the right to make a fuzz about this.

As for pre-purchase, use common sense, my rule is NEVER pre-purchase a game.
For the people that do it then worry if they’re gonna get their moneys worth, here’s an idea, how about you wait and see? What do you think you’ll miss out if you buy it a few days after it’s out?

I’ve been on since the start and I play most days, I’ve got more than my moneys worth several times already I don’t need and incentive, I’ll most likely buy HoT even if it’s slim.

The reason for the refund is because of deceptive wording in the HoT FAQ. It was absolutely appropriate for Anet to at least offer a refund to people who read an ambiguous FAQ and made a bad decision because of it.

As for the character slot, I think if you offer a new profession, it makes sense to offer a new character slot, particularly if you don’t have oodles of content other than that new profession to show off just yet. It’s a logical decision.

I said that Anet would offer the refunds before they posted and I said they should offer a character slot, before they posted, even though I’d already preordered the Ultimate Edition and had nothing to gain from it.

Angelica Dream.7103:

I actually was looking at playing other games if Anet was not not going to look after the Veteran’s. But since they reconsidered I am staying and going to pre-order.
I like the game and the $50 will not only give us some new maps ( which I don;t care about) but pay for the new content.

My only concern is after reading the Business Model we will be doing this again in 2-3 years.

But they’ve told you, from now on, everyone who buys the expansion is going to get all the previous versions. There’s no reason for you to play the game now and protest in 3 years time. Anet was completely transparent about this.

Ricky.4706:

but that means this is a different game , different genre.
It went from hard core team strategy, to casual kite flyers ? there was a formula.

First of all, a lot of it depended on how you played Guild Wars 1. I don’t really play Guild Wars 2 very differently.

Now, Guild Wars 1 had a lot of things I really liked, and a lot of things I really disliked. Still thought it was a great game. But some of the strengths of that game were also the weaknesses.

I enjoyed making builds, but I didn’t like build wars. I didn’t like pathing. I didn’t like no jumping/z axis. I didn’t like no TP. There are strengths and weaknesses in both games.

I knew from following the game before it launched that it was going to be a very different game, and I knew even more from playing the betas. Yes, it’s a different game.

In a lot of ways, I like this game MORE.

Ricky.4706:

how many old players would come back if it were the case ?

I’m confident of my position no matter how many agree with you

Gw2 is build on the passion we had in Gw1 – the loot was so easy to get that it didn’t matter , what mattered was skill, teamwork and tactics. Good old fashioned pride!!

The Guild Wars 1 players that like this game, and it is very different, are mostly still here. The ones that don’t like the game aren’t going to come back for a cool skin, no matter how cool it is.

Plenty of Guild Wars 1 players left this game a long time ago, but judging from the number of GWAMM titles I see floating around, plenty are still playing.

Forum users have been misled by the title of this thread. Misleading usually means that someone is saying something that isn’t what you think it means. Anet is telling us directly what they’re giving us and what’ they’re not giving us.

BladeBraverBureba.1052:

Vayne.8563:

Pickles.9436:

Its a win now, and to cover their butts later.

Basically, “oops, we werent expecting this reaction, give them the character slot.”
Yay win! I’m happy with this change even!

final paragraph: “We are going to give away previous needed content for free to new players from now on when a new xpac comes out. This is a heads up so you can’t yell at us for doing this again.”

aka: You get a free character slot now, but the future looks doubtful.

Nope the future doesn’t look doubtful. This is what most MMOs do now. It’s NORMAL. If you buy WoW now and you have the core game you get every expansion they ever offered free. EQ is doing. There’s no reason for a company not to do it. Who the hell is going to buy four, five six games just to play your MMO.

The future is bright because they’re doing this.

The issue is not even remotely that new purchasers get it for free. It’s how it screws over older players, who are paying more for supporting the product earlier

Who is going to buy 4-6 games for an MMO? Ask anyone who’s played WoW from core to current. Ask anyone who played Guild Wars from Prophecies to Eye of the North. And unless Guild Wars 2 has no more expansions, ask anyone who’s still around from core to the next expansion or two.

Which is less and less people which is why WoW changed it. They were getting less new people and now if you own the base game and the newest expansion you get every other expansion free, and there are a few of them. Since you’re using WOW as an example, why did WoW start doing it too?

Ricky.4706:

i disagree,

The right thing to do would have been to make those hall of monuments prerequisites for special legendaries.

1 – legendaries and titles should mean something, not just bought

2 – these new players are green behind the gills because they have NO idea how the real gw tactics work….now we just have a bunch of people running around in circles, healing and screaming for more loot. Honor should be more valuable than loot!

You can disagree all you want, but I was there on guru long before this game launched, and the community was actually saying the opposite of what you’re saying. They were plenty of fan comments asking for that not to happen. Because that, in and of itself, becomes a entry barrier. Anet would have been stupid to do it.

And you know, over the years, we’ve had very very few complaints about the HoM. In case you noticed, this is not a bashful community. If that was really a big deal, it would have been outed before now.

I didn’t realize that the conspiracy theorist’s convention was still in town.

Veterans haven’t been misled. Make no mistake. People who like the game are likely going to buy the expansion to get, not only the new content in the box, but everything they follow it up with. They’re going to want to continue the story. They’re going to want to get guild halls. They’re going to want to play the new profession. They’re going to want to glide.

Those that aren’t really fans of the game and maybe they will and maybe they won’t and Anet should bribe me with more stuff, frankly I’m not so sure why those guys should be rewarded. For sitting on the fence?

There are enough people who enjoy the game who are going to buy the expansion with or without you guys. Anet has fixed the problem for most people. The small percentage of you that still feel hard done by…if you like the game, you’re still going to by HoT.

And if you don’t…shrugs.

Do you realize how many times people have said they were leaving this game for other games. Do you remember all the ESO people who said that this game would die. Or all the Wildstar people. Or funniest of all, all the Archeage people.

Not to mention the EQ Next fans who said it’ll be the next big thing, and then Sony sold Sony Online Entertainment to an investment bank.

Anet handled the issue for most people. There’s a huge update coming today that I didn’t pay for. I’ll be online enjoying it, and proudly wearing my Maguuma Trailblazer title.

The information won’t come because we ask for it. It’ll come on the Anet information release schedule. Information schedules are part and parcel of product promotion.

Every time Anet released information about something, every MMO website covers it, which gives Anet exposure. If all that stuff is released now, those gaming websites will cover it all at once and Anet gets less exposure.

That’s one reason that the schedule is created the way it is. There are others as well.

Yeah veterans are already complaining, it would probably be an error for Anet to give Season 2 away at this point.

Ricky.4706:

nah vayne, i’m not buying it, i’m still upset that legendaries glow prettier than the hall of monuments stuff from gw1 – how many years and how many hidden areas did i have to grind to get it ????!

I’m a fan , but i aint rolling like that ….i should have been glowing with particle effects coming out my ears from beta….

It would have been the absolute wrong thing to do. Hall of Monuments weapons were never meant to be better than any other skin in the game. They were meant to be souvenirs.

Because if you make them better, then everyone who’s new to the game will feel obligated to get and play a different game in order to get those skins, and that was never the intention of HoM rewards. I have them all and I’m happy with them. They weren’t meant to be end game weapons that we’d have forever. If that were the case, we’d never have to go for a weapon skin again. We were done before the game launched. That would have been bad planning.

I submit that your expectations for what HoM weapons were supposed to be is probably off kilter.

adormtil.1605:

Yes let them fall or else they are gonna keep thinking that they can make less content and of less quality for the same price of the base game. They will reach a point where they will sell us a expansion 1/3 the size of HOT at same price with even less features.

Depends on how much content they give us included in that price after the fact though.

@starlinvf.1358:]

This is a well written passage that has nothing to do with what I said, Whether you liked every reward, didn’t like every reward, liked every chapter, didn’t like every chapter, liked some chapters, didn’t like some chapters, there was stuff given to Vets that new players don’t get. Some of my favorite experiences were in Living World Season 1, which I got to play…the Marionette, the Nightmare Tower, Escape from Lion’s Arch. Even stuff like the Bazaar of the Four Winds, which lots of people did like, is not likely to return.

So while much of what you say is true, it still changes nothing I’ve said.

OP, just because someone is getting the game for free, doesn’t mean you’re buying it again.

And you know, if you don’t like that they’re giving away games for free, you’ll eventually not have any MMOs to play at all, because it’s already started. WoW is doing it. EQ is doing it. It removes a barrier for entry to new players. That’s business and it’s logical.

If you don’t like it, don’t buy the game, but it will never change. Because the number of new players that companies gain is far higher than the tiny percentage of people who don’t get it who are actually not going to buy it. The problem is, soon you won’t be able to buy any MMO.

imsoenthused.1634:

Vayne.8563:

The core game has zero cost, which can be different from zero value. Because value and cost have very little to do with each other.

Value is what someone puts on something, cost is what someone pays for it. I’ve gotten stuff for free that has value to me in the past.

If it has value, then part of that value is in fact “costing” you a portion of the price tag of the expansion. They’re just not giving vets the ability to opt out as a way of subsidizing new players purchases. If other MMOs are doing it, then they are doing a bad thing as well. Value and cost have everything to do with each other.

No, they don’t. There are times I’ve given something away that has value at no cost to customers. I’ve done it personally. The value of the object had nothing to do with the cost of the object.

There are a number of reasons why people give away things below cost or even free. That’s the real world.

imsoenthused.1634:

Lambo.1405:

I’m not sure I fully follow you on this. They are not asking you to pay for the core game again. They are charging 50 bucks for HoT and are also bundling the core game for new players to ease the transition into the game. I’m pretty certain that their goals are to remove hurdles and barriers for new folks to step in and play. I think that’s good for everyone! For example, I’ve never played WoW but I did have an interest, but when I browsed the site and saw soooo many expansions I decided not to bother. As a new scrub, I didn’t know what I needed to buy (at the time) to get a good start, so I didn’t bother getting started at all!

I’m all for bringing new players in because ultimately it’s better for everyone. Just my opinion.

The only way this argument makes sense is if you are saying that the core game has zero value. Otherwise, you are paying for that core game. Part of that $50 price tag is based on the valuation of that core game. As a result, any existing players making that purchase are paying some unknown portion of that cost for content they already own.

I understand some people don’t see it that way, especially people who game from terribad monthly fee games and the laughable idea that they are paying AHEAD for future expansion. Those of us who gave five or so years of our lives to the original Guild Wars expect for developers to make expansions and then charge us fairly for the content they have created. None of my money is being paid for pipe dreams.

The core game has zero cost, which can be different from zero value. Because value and cost have very little to do with each other.

Value is what someone puts on something, cost is what someone pays for it. I’ve gotten stuff for free that has value to me in the past.

BladeBraverBureba.1052:

Vayne.8563:

Most MMOs are doing this. Not to screw over loyal players. Here’s your options. You can wait 8-10 years till there are no more expansions, buy the last expansion and start playing the game 10 years from now, or you can buy the games when they come out and enjoy them from the beginning, during which time you can accumulate wealth, among other things.

Just for logging in, I got all of Living Story Season 2 unlocked. I got to see all of the living World Season 1 which can’t even be experienced by new players. I was at the Southsun Karka event. I’ve played a PvP map that doesn’t exist anymore. I was there for orbs in WvW. There are a ton of experiences I’ve had new players will never have. There’s a boatload of wealth I’ve gotten new players won’t have. Hell I have six legendaries.

Most MMOs are going this route, because imagine, 8 years from now, if a new player had to buy four or five games just to play with everyone in the new content. It’s a barrier to entry that’s bad for the company. But it’s not just bad for the company. It’s bad for veterans, because due to natural attrition in all games, we NEED new players.

WoW is doing this. EQ is doing this. It’s becoming normal for a company to remove barriers to get new players into their game.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Because if they actually cared about attracting new players AND retaining vets, everyone would get the same deal: pay for the core, get added content at no change.

Instead, loyal longtime players get double charged, which would do nothing but accelerate that “natural attrition” you mentioned.

No one is getting double charged. At very least, the price of the new game would have come down to $10 anyway, so that’s the most you’d be overcharged, except that no one is raising their price to give the game away. You’re not being overcharged. You’ve paid for a game and you’ve played it. They can play it much much later and miss stuff. You can too, that’s your choice.

Saying you’re being overcharged because an older version of the game is no longer being sold is a very narrow and selective view of reality.

The new patch is more than a balance patch. It’s one of the biggest patches in the game’s history. Traits will be replaced by core specializations. The skill point changes have been reversed. Traits and skills are changing. There’s updates to the account wallet, and Lion’s Arch will finally be rebuilt.

I don’t know, most players seem okay with this. Sorry you’re not.

But I don’t believe this six unhappy guys left are going to affect sales one way or another. You see, no matter what Anet does, people are unhappy. It doesn’t matter what it is.

You can always wait till the last minute to buy the prepurchase and get a refund in the 30 days if you decide you don’t like it I suppose.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

The OP’s point is quite valid. Any veteran player that buys and links HoT to his old account should get something.

It’s simple matter of fairness. New players get core game + HoT rolled into one for price of x-pac alone. Old players who do not choose to make new account (taking up server space and other resources), but instead link HoT to their old account, should get something too. Like that extra character slot.

Still at least A-net moved a bit torwards us veterans (and it’s own interest along the way). For me personally now it’s more of an “50$ is ten bucks too much for me”, rather then “I won’t support this sleeze”.

You mean playing the game for as long as you did, got you nothing? You mean you weren’t around to unlock every episode of the Living Story Season 2 for free. Maybe you played none of season 1.

You get something. You get to play the game which you bought. Since we now know that all the prior games will be included in each expansion, I suggest you wait 10 years till the last expansion, but it and get all the expansions free, except for that last one.

The rest of us will be here, playing the game and having a good time.

I’ll say what I said elsewhere. This is what all major MMOs are doing now, or will be doing in the near future. There’s a reason for it.

The more expansions that come over time, the harder and harder it gets to have a new person come into the game, which is bad for the game and bad for veterans too.

If you buy the base WoW game and the current expansion you like like four, five expansions for free that others paid for. So all you have to do is wait about ten years, get the last expansion they come out with and you get them all.

I’ll buy them as they come out and play them when they’re new and exciting, thanks. WoW is doing it. EQ is doing it. Guild Wars 2 is now doing it because it makes sense. It’s what they should be doing.

And if you don’t think getting new blood into the game helps veterans, I don’t know what to tell you.

This isn’t a slap in the face to you. You, like everyone else, has a choice. Play the game when its’ new, or wait until it’s on sale much much more cheaply. I bought games for $60 on launch that were later $5 on steam. Those guys don’t care about us veterans.

It’s always been the option to wait until it’s cheaper and many people do. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter that you won’t buy it because new players are getting it included. It’s becoming the standard.

Why did they take 6 soul crushing days. I don’t know, maybe because when it started half the brass was still at E3 doing like that stuff. And because a HUGE update, possibly the largest in the history of the game is coming tomorrow. And maybe because they wanted to make sure that got it right and, with the community particularly, wanted to make sure they were getting the wording just right.

And maybe people have families and go home on weekends, because waiting six days made no difference to anything, really. Anyone who expected it sooner probably has never run a big business before.

Most MMOs are doing this. Not to screw over loyal players. Here’s your options. You can wait 8-10 years till there are no more expansions, buy the last expansion and start playing the game 10 years from now, or you can buy the games when they come out and enjoy them from the beginning, during which time you can accumulate wealth, among other things.

Just for logging in, I got all of Living Story Season 2 unlocked. I got to see all of the living World Season 1 which can’t even be experienced by new players. I was at the Southsun Karka event. I’ve played a PvP map that doesn’t exist anymore. I was there for orbs in WvW. There are a ton of experiences I’ve had new players will never have. There’s a boatload of wealth I’ve gotten new players won’t have. Hell I have six legendaries.

Most MMOs are going this route, because imagine, 8 years from now, if a new player had to buy four or five games just to play with everyone in the new content. It’s a barrier to entry that’s bad for the company. But it’s not just bad for the company. It’s bad for veterans, because due to natural attrition in all games, we NEED new players.

WoW is doing this. EQ is doing this. It’s becoming normal for a company to remove barriers to get new players into their game.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

fellyn.5083:

Majic.4801:

fellyn.5083:

I’m honestly not sure why people feel compelled to thank anet for doing something that should have been done in the first place and shouldn’t have required a massive protest from it’s community.

Whether or not it should have been done in the first place is a matter of opinion, and clearly ArenaNet’s original opinion was that it didn’t need to be.

When players objected, they moved quickly to accommodate them and changed their policy the very next business day.

When someone does something nice, it is customary to thank them. That’s why people are thanking them.

It’s not a big mystery.

They didn’t do it to be nice no matter what words they chose to use.

They did it because they were getting a lot of negative press and pre order numbers weren’t hittng the numbers they want.

That’s the only reason they did it and it’s the only reason they caved and changed things in the past.

Notice how NPE and the redone trait unlock system stayed in place? Because no major game news sites call them out on how bad they were.

Unlike the flame kissed armor shenanigans and the changes they were going to make to the gem sore.

Major gaming sites jumped all over them for those things and what do you know? They got changed.

We as a community apparently have very short term memories.

They didn’t do it to be nice. That’s 100% true. They didn’t sit there and think, I’ll be nice today.

On the other hand, they didn’t make the first deal in order to be mean. See that’s the corollary. Companies don’t do things to be mean and don’t do things to be nice. That’s because they’re in business to make money. And they make money in a number of ways.

Logically, though, being nice is going to make you more money than being mean.

The public does have a short memory. They forget the content they got for free just by logging in for Season 2, when all new players have to pay for that. Seems all those players who got that content for free seems to have forgotten about it completely when they say Anet doesn’t think about veteran players.

Of course, there’s the other side of the coin. Just as companies are in business to make money, consumers are trying to get the best deal for their dollar all the time, even when it’s neither fair nor reasonable.

There’s a thread on these forums right now about a guy complaining that everyone should get the game refunded, because new purchasers are.

The public has a short memory. Time after time I’ve seen this community attack Anet mercilessly and time after time, it’s either blow over or changed and people have thanked them.

That’s why I was sure this would be taken care of, while some of you were still screaming.

The reason they people are getting the refund is because they paid for the game due to wording in a FAQ that was easily misintpreted. In other words, some of them wouldn’t have bought the game when they did if they knew that the expansion would include the original.

I, on the other hand, 2.5 years ago, bought this game. And even if I was told back then that future expansions would include the original I’d have still bought the game. Because I’ve been having 2.5 years of enjoyment, except when I log into the forum. lol

The OP thinks that everyone should a game they’ve been playing for years for free. My only hope is that the OP never goes into business.

To all those who said this was some master plan of the sinister Anet to defraud people out of their hard earned money to get them to buy the base game, how does that automatic refunds to people who bought the game during the enter time that FAQ was up look now.

Honestly, after all this time, you’d at least have to believe Anet was well intentioned if not always on the ball with this stuff.

I’m happy for the solution, but I’m also glad to say I didn’t slide into the automatic suspicion camp.

Pickles.9436:

Its a win now, and to cover their butts later.

Basically, “oops, we werent expecting this reaction, give them the character slot.”
Yay win! I’m happy with this change even!

final paragraph: “We are going to give away previous needed content for free to new players from now on when a new xpac comes out. This is a heads up so you can’t yell at us for doing this again.”

aka: You get a free character slot now, but the future looks doubtful.

Nope the future doesn’t look doubtful. This is what most MMOs do now. It’s NORMAL. If you buy WoW now and you have the core game you get every expansion they ever offered free. EQ is doing. There’s no reason for a company not to do it. Who the hell is going to buy four, five six games just to play your MMO.

The future is bright because they’re doing this.