….is pretty fine to me.
Look at all the things we are getting with HoT.
- Elite Specializations
- New weapon for each class
- New post level 80 leveling system
- Rumored 5 new zones with 3 “sub-sections”
- 2 Zones dedicated to Guild Halls
- Guild Halls
- New Class
- New WvW Map
- Various new WvW mechanics
- New sPvP Map
- New sPvP Mode
- New Confirmed Challenging ContentThen later on down the road….you’ll get Living World Season 3 and 4, if we assume that it’ll be 2 season between each expac. You also get more feature packs, and more balance patches. You could sink hours upon hours into this expansion.
That is awesome for just 50.00
Does it suck that only new players really get a bonus item? Sure, but that doesn’t mean the price of the expac should change for us veteran players.
I do think a character slot would be a reasonable bonus to veteran players though.
Let me reiterate here: I did not get the core game for free. New players get the core game for free. Can you attempt a better explanation at why I should be okay with this? I might be a little less miffed if I actually thought I was getting some kind of value for my money. Instead, it looks like Anet expects me to forget that I ever spent money to purchase their software in the first place!
Where you mad when the core game was on sale for $10?
So with this new expansion it includes the core game as well as the expansion? So in other words i just paid $60 for GW2 when i could have gotten it AND the expansion for $50 if i had just waited? or is the expansion JUST the expansion and not include the core game?
Per Regina The expansion costs $50. The core game is included as a free gift to new players.
“Just paid $60” how recent is “just paid”
…I’m pretty sure core hasn’t cost $60 within the last year, could be wrong though…
Either way, looks like if you contact support they will refund you up to 30 days(and completely close your account, including the gw1 link of applied); at which point you can pre-purchase HoT, which includes core.Per arenanet/staff/knights, you would not be buying core at this point, but getting it included with your HoT purchase. It is very important to remember this fact, that core will be given to you, free of charge, valued at $0. Otherwise, you may get upset.
That sounds like semantic corporate mumbo jumbo-babble to me.
sigh
But it’s not corporate mumbo jumbo. If you’ve bought the expansion recently ask for a refund. If you haven’t bought it recently you’ve had time to play it and you’ve gotten money out of it.
I once bought a TV and six months later it was $100 less. Sure, but I was using it for six months.
Welcome to the real world.
So people who paid full price got an extra 15-16 days more than people who got in on $10 sale who now can’t refund and that justifies a sufficient gap that we got our “moneys worth”.
People who paid full prices thirty days prior to the preorder date are entitled to a refund, which means they paid NOTHING.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.
Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.
Listening means taking data, having meetings, discussing things and making decisions on a company level. Your analogy is an unfair one. Getting a supervisor takes one person to get one person.
And even then, if you had a supervisor who had nothing to say because this affects company wide policy this supervisor wouldn’t be able to help you anyway.
Patience is a virtue. Governements and companies don’t work on the same time scale individuals do.
Mate, Colin could have said a number of things to calm things down like ’we’re looking into this’. He was on the forums commenting on ascended changes while completely ignoring their forum in an uproar.
Even Gaile could have returned with a status update. This isn’t the 19th century. We can communicate from pretty much everywhere. Saying they’re too busy to even acknowledge from someone with some clout, or keep us up to date simply holds no water.
There’s no status update until they make a decision. If they decide to do nothing, Colin’s reassurance would add fuel to the fire. This isn’t the 19th century. We live in an age of instant gratification. That’s not Anet’s fault.
If Anet doesn’t know they’re going to do something, they can’t say anything. And they don’t know before those meetings.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
If you think about it, many of us spend a good $50 heck, even $60 on a new game. Take Fallout 4 for example. If they had announced Fallout 4 a day before it released, no one would need to know ANY details about the game because players know Bethesda and they know that they truly deliver on their games. Players trust Bethesda which in turn makes them LOTS of money.
Please don’t speak for me. I need to know what I’m getting when I give a company my hard earned money. I don’t blindly give anyone money.
And you shouldn’t give money to any company blindly, who’s asking you to? I don’t think you should preorder the game if you’re not satisfied with it’s value. But there’s enough info, obviously, for some people to have made up their mind. If you’re not one of them, you’re entitled to wait and make a judgement as more info gets released. So what’s the problem?
So with this new expansion it includes the core game as well as the expansion? So in other words i just paid $60 for GW2 when i could have gotten it AND the expansion for $50 if i had just waited? or is the expansion JUST the expansion and not include the core game?
Per Regina The expansion costs $50. The core game is included as a free gift to new players.
“Just paid $60” how recent is “just paid”
…I’m pretty sure core hasn’t cost $60 within the last year, could be wrong though…
Either way, looks like if you contact support they will refund you up to 30 days(and completely close your account, including the gw1 link of applied); at which point you can pre-purchase HoT, which includes core.Per arenanet/staff/knights, you would not be buying core at this point, but getting it included with your HoT purchase. It is very important to remember this fact, that core will be given to you, free of charge, valued at $0. Otherwise, you may get upset.
That sounds like semantic corporate mumbo jumbo-babble to me.
sigh
But it’s not corporate mumbo jumbo. If you’ve bought the expansion recently ask for a refund. If you haven’t bought it recently you’ve had time to play it and you’ve gotten money out of it.
I once bought a TV and six months later it was $100 less. Sure, but I was using it for six months.
Welcome to the real world.
See my issue isn’t that you decide to buy or not to buy a game. My issue is so many people telling others not to buy it, or that it’s not worth it as if that’s a fact.
It’s a preorder. If you like the game, and you don’t have the money now, start saving money slowly but don’t preorder. Don’t drop money on the game until they’ve revealed more and they’re sure it’s for you.
I’d never have said anything if people weren’t telling other people not to buy. Your opinion is your opinion. Trying to tell others what to do is a different story.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.
Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.
Listening means taking data, having meetings, discussing things and making decisions on a company level. Your analogy is an unfair one. Getting a supervisor takes one person to get one person.
And even then, if you had a supervisor who had nothing to say because this affects company wide policy this supervisor wouldn’t be able to help you anyway.
Patience is a virtue. Governements and companies don’t work on the same time scale individuals do.
If you think Guild Wars 2 is dying you should check out Massively’s list of the top ten MMOs. Guild Wars 2 is #2. The criteria for selection is listed on the page. You can also check out the quarterly reports.
OP, while I disagree with your interpretation with what entitlement means, I absolutely agree no one should use the word. By the token people should stop using blind and fanboy and white knight too, because it’s used only to discredit and has no bearing on the conversation. Both sides are guilty of hyperbole and name calling and it should stop.
Thanks for the replies, appreciate you guys clearing it up.
Hopefully the offer the expansion without the original game. Sounds great for new customers, but it’s a slap in the face for someone who spent money already on the original game.
I feel kind of indifferent right now lol… maybe I shouldn’t invite him to play
I can’t understand this attitude and I’ve heard it a dozen times or more. The original game is being offered for free, to encourage new people to get the game. It’s not a slap in the face to new players. This isn’t the only MMO to do this. It’s nothing new.
Basically, they were selling the old game on sale for $10 anyway. They made the decision to include it in the new package for free.
So if they’re charging $50 for the expansion anyway, and that was always their plan, why is this a slap in the face?
I think the OP needs to go get a law degree before making claims like this. This would never go to court. Anet is offering refunds to people, and a FAQ for an unreleased game wouldn’t be considered advertising anyway.
I wish people would stop talking for ALL current players or all veteran players, because you’re not talking for all of us and all of us don’t agree. Thanks.
Two Months Old Customer Felt Betrayed Already
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
Within 30 days you can be refunded..
Well, yeah, they are obligated by consumer law to allow this. It doesn’t mean that they will make it easy, though. In fact, they don’t make it easy.
Specifically a thread on reddit, who posted that originally they told him that they’d have to close his account, but he updated his post to say that now they’ve given him a refund and he’s kept his account.
I don’t have the URL offhand.
They actually are making it easy, now. What you’re saying is old info. If people had a problem they need to try again.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
Two Months Old Customer Felt Betrayed Already
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
Mods please merge this.
You really want to be a mod don’t you.
OT, yeah the Ninja edit of the FAQ is bad. I’m sure a lot of people saw the sale as a good time to get the game ready for the Xpac, hell I even convinced a friend to get the game as it was so cheap. An I told him there is an xpac coming out. It says you need the base game to play it. So he got it there an then. He was planning on waiting till the Xpac came out to see if there was a deal.on the base game and Xpac.
LOL, I like how you rant over a simple sentence. There’s a mega thread go post there.
Sure like you post in every thread that has nothing to do with that thread you ask a mod to merge it. The mega thread is about price + vets not getting the core game for free as they are paying the same price. This is about the Ninja edit of the FAQ that miss lead people in to getting the core game sooner who thought they where getting the better deal. If you read a thread or two, you might see the difference.
You know that ‘simple sentence’ is part of their contract agreement, right? You bet people ranted. Ghost editing after someone signs and agrees to buy something tends to kitten people off.
People use words like ghost editing so glibly.
Things in games change. FAQs are changed when they change. That’s how the world works.
Clearly the original plan was to make it two sales. There were probably people in the management for and against the plan and they discussed it. They made a decision. As time went on, one side gathers more backers and they decide to make the change.
When the change is made, the FAQ has to be changed.
You can call that a Ghost Change, but in reality it’s just changing the FAQ to fit the facts.
Anet needs to refund people for the entire period of time since that first fact went up, but editing a fact to make it accurate?
Call it what you want, but it’s done all the time and the only time anyone has a problem with is is when it changes to something they don’t want to hear.
So you think.telling.people.right up till the day after pre drops that they need to buy GW2 to play HoT is fine? Have 2 sales with in a few month of each other to get people.in to the game, who may or may not have waited for HoT to come out before spending there money on GW2. You think this is fine and ANet as a company have done nothing wrong? I know you normally defend ANet, but surely this must even seem a bit off to you.
I never said it was fine. Anet is offering refunds to people who bought it recently though. One guy on reddit got a refund on the core game (or upgrade to HoT for the difference in price) and didn’t lose his progress in the process. Customer service helped him out.
Now if Anet weren’t willing to help people out, you’d definitely have a point. But have you noticed since March, they haven’t offered the $10 sale. That’s probably because they were deciding that to do.
If that’s what you want to think fine. I won’t tell you to think otherwise, but I do not have that blind faith in a company.
I don’t have BLIND faith in the company. My eyes are wide open I assure you. I’m an intelligent guy, with many years of business behind me. I’m not calling anyone blind for not buying it and I’d appreciate you not calling me blind for buying it. Logically speaking, everyone values things differently. Calling someone blind because they have different values than you devalues your opinion.
My problem isn’t people who are saying we don’t know enough yet to justify the expansion or people who are complaining about not getting a character slot. My problem is the vitriol and disrespect, not to mention outright accusations of wrongdoing.
It’s pretty clear Anet changed direction late in the game with how they were going to offer the original game with HoT. Companies do it all the time.
Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.
Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.
Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.
The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.
You don’t define what is and is not fact. You’re stating things as fact that you could only know are fact if in fact you work for Anet. When I state fact I provide proof, which you never do.
Every fact in my post was a fact. It’s a fact that Guild Wars 2 is sold as a buy to play game. How is that not a fact.
Nothing I said required inside information for it to be a fact.
Actually GW2 is a hybrid B2P cash shop game. GW1 was a far different model and though it has a cash shop it’s nearly a pure B2P. If it can be argued it isn’t fact.
It being B2P is a fact. You buy it, you can play it, you don’t have to spend a dime in the store and most people probably don’t. Some have said so.
Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.
Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.
Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.
The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.
You don’t define what is and is not fact. You’re stating things as fact that you could only know are fact if in fact you work for Anet. When I state fact I provide proof, which you never do.
Every fact in my post was a fact. It’s a fact that Guild Wars 2 is sold as a buy to play game. How is that not a fact.
Nothing I said required inside information for it to be a fact.
When my missis texted me that the HoT is in the gem store I drove my car like Schumacher to get home from work. I sat down with my bankcard in my hand and a 100 pounds smile on my face…
…and than I saw the price and the content…
I said something like:
“$ß÷פ;>í]€Í€Í??*¤!!!! You kittened piece of kittened kitty!!!”(closest translation I can make…)
No I won’t buy the HoT for our accounts! If it stays like this 90% of my guild going to play something else… So there is no point for me to play this game any more…
Actually it’s the other way around. It’s the people who are angry here who are seeing things in black and white.
For example, I believe Anet should give a free characters lot with the free version and that’s not what I’m arguing about at all.
But I’m not the one saying Anet is lying or shady or covering up stuff. One of us is giving the benefit of the doubt, and one of us is making assumptions.
Therefore one of us is seeing things in black and white and I don’t think it’s the Knights.
Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.
Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.
Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.
The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.
Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.
Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.
Time is money and in this case silence is not gold.
You know less about business than you think you do. Haste makes waste. See we can all quote proverbs.
Yes I would agree 100% with what you said if history was not repeating it self, as I mentioned above, they ALWAYS go in hiding mode when they need to address something and wait for the tornado to pass before coming back like it never happened
Maybe because they’re ALWAYS a multi-million dollar company that ALWAYS had to discuss stuff before reacting too quickly?
The same thing that makes them delay now, is the same thing that makes them delay the rest of the time, added to in this case by the fact that a lot of the top guys were at E3.
So don’t order it? lol
Two Months Old Customer Felt Betrayed Already
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
Mods please merge this.
You really want to be a mod don’t you.
OT, yeah the Ninja edit of the FAQ is bad. I’m sure a lot of people saw the sale as a good time to get the game ready for the Xpac, hell I even convinced a friend to get the game as it was so cheap. An I told him there is an xpac coming out. It says you need the base game to play it. So he got it there an then. He was planning on waiting till the Xpac came out to see if there was a deal.on the base game and Xpac.
LOL, I like how you rant over a simple sentence. There’s a mega thread go post there.
Sure like you post in every thread that has nothing to do with that thread you ask a mod to merge it. The mega thread is about price + vets not getting the core game for free as they are paying the same price. This is about the Ninja edit of the FAQ that miss lead people in to getting the core game sooner who thought they where getting the better deal. If you read a thread or two, you might see the difference.
You know that ‘simple sentence’ is part of their contract agreement, right? You bet people ranted. Ghost editing after someone signs and agrees to buy something tends to kitten people off.
People use words like ghost editing so glibly.
Things in games change. FAQs are changed when they change. That’s how the world works.
Clearly the original plan was to make it two sales. There were probably people in the management for and against the plan and they discussed it. They made a decision. As time went on, one side gathers more backers and they decide to make the change.
When the change is made, the FAQ has to be changed.
You can call that a Ghost Change, but in reality it’s just changing the FAQ to fit the facts.
Anet needs to refund people for the entire period of time since that first fact went up, but editing a fact to make it accurate?
Call it what you want, but it’s done all the time and the only time anyone has a problem with is is when it changes to something they don’t want to hear.
So you think.telling.people.right up till the day after pre drops that they need to buy GW2 to play HoT is fine? Have 2 sales with in a few month of each other to get people.in to the game, who may or may not have waited for HoT to come out before spending there money on GW2. You think this is fine and ANet as a company have done nothing wrong? I know you normally defend ANet, but surely this must even seem a bit off to you.
I never said it was fine. Anet is offering refunds to people who bought it recently though. One guy on reddit got a refund on the core game (or upgrade to HoT for the difference in price) and didn’t lose his progress in the process. Customer service helped him out.
Now if Anet weren’t willing to help people out, you’d definitely have a point. But have you noticed since March, they haven’t offered the $10 sale. That’s probably because they were deciding that to do.
According to Colin it’s coming soon.
So you get offer in your local cinema to watch movie for full price,but first 30min are removed and u must pay extra 10$ if u want to see beginning of movie,instead they give u bonus,extra ticket for another good movie but only if u are from another state and u never seen any movie in that cinema before….and u call person who refuse such a deal a greedy one?
Bad analogy is bad.
So . . . we’re paying fifty dollars or more for guild halls, vanity items, and other nonsense? Even you don’t believe that. Can we please get some information about the actual content instead? You know, the stuff that we will be spending the majority of our time on?
You will get the information. It’s not like you won’t. That the beauty of a preorder. You don’t have to order it now, it makes no difference. The information will come.
But those of us who want to but basic edition and don’t want to delete a character DO have to pay extra!
We shouldn’t be forced to forego all the time and effort we have spent on our chars.
We shouldn’t be forced to spend MORE than pre purchase price of basic to play the new class.
Funny with all the posts about how much content we have had over the past years and all the events we got to do that we are now expected to delete one of the chars we levelled to 80 in festivals, mapped with, and maxed out a crafting discipline with!!!
If someone has maxed a crafting discipline on each of their chars why would they want to delete it and then have to spend 200g + on having to do it again?
Think people, think!!!
I believe you’re right. It should come with a character slot. But there are many people who are arguing something completely different. Those are the people I have a disagreement with. I think Anet should include a character slot in the base package. Of course then they probably have to add something to the two higher packages to balance it out.
@Vayne that’s not why I’m not buying it. I’m not paying the same and getting what I consider less value for my money. I do feel $50 for LS S3 is overpriced and that is a factor as well, but I’ve been exceptionally calm about my reasons on the forums.
I’m perfectly happy to keep playing the game I paid for forever without touching the xpac and you can’t seem to figure out why. Read my posts, they’re fairly enlightening.
I can figure out why. But as they add content and more content and more content that you can’t access, that’ll be your loss. I’ll be playing it.
You have to own HoT to have a guild hall. Non HoT players will not be able to enter the guild hall.
I remenber (maybe I am wrong) that someone from A-net said, that there will be a button in the guild menue, so that every guild member can travel from all maps to the guild hall. I concluded from that, that a player without HoT can travel to the guild hall, after the guild hall was claimed from players with HoT.
Did A-Net explicitly say that only players with HoT can enter the guild hall?
I could be wrong on this, actually. So I should probably edit my original post to reflect uncertainty.
It’s not their responsibility it’s their option. And you know, it’s my option to convince a bigot that he’s wrong, but that doesn’t mean all the trying in the world is going to make a difference. If you have your mind up that you’re paying extra for it, there’s no way anyone can convince you otherwise and if I were Anet, I wouldn’t waste my time trying.
If Anet came out with a direct statement that said, we were always going to sell the expansion for $50 and we decided after that to include the core game for new users after the fact, would you believe them?
You realize you sound as if you called me a bigot? I’d edit that if that wasn’t your intention. If it was then our exchanges will sound less formal from here on.
Of course it wasn’t my intention. It’s not even remotely implying that. I’m simply pointing out that if someone has made up their mind, then no amount of trying to convince them is going to work. I could have used a religious person and trying to argue them out of god, or a liberal or conservative, trying to change their mind. Once someone makes up their mind, it’s not always so easy to change it.
You’re saying it’s Anet’s responsibility to convince you. How would you suggest they do that. If they had always intended the price to be $50 and they didn’t raise it when they decided to include the base game for new purchasers, how could they convince you.
Assuming they didn’t tape that meeting. Would telling you that convince you? Would having sworn, notorized statements convince you? Would having everyone who was at the meeting confirm it convince you.
It’s obvious to me, that one decision was made at one point and it was rethought, which happens in business all the time. I don’t see anything startling or underhanded about it.
The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.
It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.
The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.
We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.
So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?
Wow bundles all expansions except the most current one together. In order to play their most recent expansion WoD you have to buy the base game, which includes vanilla up to mop. So $19.99 + $49.99 for a brand new player. Buying warlords of draenor without the base game doesn’t do anything for you. Of course a new player could just buy the base game, but they would only be able to access content up to level 90 where the new level cap is 100.
WoD by itself doesn’t include any precious expansions or vanilla.I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it is, a person who was there all along, who bought each expansion at the time didn’t get that deal. New players got a better deal. Because it becomes harder and harder as time goes on to attract new players.
Yeah but the old players in that WoW scenario also aren’t being given bundle options that only sell the new expansion with all previous expansions + vanilla right? They can just purchase the newest expansion released without also including the price of previous releases in the cost, correct? I’m honestly not sure, as I stated earlier I don’t anything about WoW’s business model at the moment. But if my assumptions are correct it’s not the same as what Anet’s marketing is doing right now and is actually healthier for both old and new players alike for them.
But they did pay for something other people are getting for free, which is just like this. It’s just how it’s packaged. It’s not that big a mental leap to see how it’s the same. The decide was made for the same reason at WoW. The reasoning behind the decision lends credence to the idea that maybe, just maybe, we’re not paying extra.
A WoW player who bought every expansion would have spent well over a hundred dollars that a new player isn’t going to have to spend.
The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.
It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.
The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.
We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.
So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?
Wow bundles all expansions except the most current one together. In order to play their most recent expansion WoD you have to buy the base game, which includes vanilla up to mop. So $19.99 + $49.99 for a brand new player. Buying warlords of draenor without the base game doesn’t do anything for you. Of course a new player could just buy the base game, but they would only be able to access content up to level 90 where the new level cap is 100.
WoD by itself doesn’t include any precious expansions or vanilla.
I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it is, a person who was there all along, who bought each expansion at the time didn’t get that deal. New players got a better deal. Because it becomes harder and harder as time goes on to attract new players.
I agree with you. The consumer decides what they will and won’t pay for. And that means the consumer, before they say they will or won’t pay for it, should actually know what it is.
Without knowing how much content is in HoT, there’s no way to know if it’s worth it at this point but I’ve seen people say it’s not worth it. All they can really say is it’s not worth it from what I’ve seen so far, but it may become worth it next month. They don’t really know.
It’s Anet’s responsibility to either convince or adjust not the buyer’s to bend or understand. Anet can’t convince me to buy HoT I’ve already decided these packages aren’t worth my money. Either they decide they don’t need my money or they adjust the offering.
It’s not their responsibility it’s their option. And you know, it’s my option to convince a creationist that he’s wrong, but that doesn’t mean all the trying in the world is going to make a difference. If you have your mind up that you’re paying extra for it, there’s no way anyone can convince you otherwise and if I were Anet, I wouldn’t waste my time trying.
If Anet came out with a direct statement that said, we were always going to sell the expansion for $50 and we decided after that to include the core game for new users after the fact, would you believe them?
Edited by request
(edited by Vayne.8563)
Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?
I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.
I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)
I think we’ve reached the point in the argument where people are trotting out terms like white knights because they have zero facts or evidence and so have to try to discredit people personally because they have no facts.
No, you can’t download Guild Wars 2 for free. Because maybe Anet doesn’t want the bad community that comes from completely free to play games. Maybe it’s harder to control gold sellers that way. Maybe there’s a reason why they decided to include it in HoT.
Fact, Guild Wars 2 is a buy to play game. That means you can’t just allow people to download the base game for free because they could play that for a year, two years and spend NO money. They can play the new WvW and new PvP even without buying the expansion so that would be a bad move.
Fact. Many companies have issues with upselling their expansion because new players have to make multiple purchases to catch up which is a barrier to entry. WoW stopped making people buy old expansions to be current, because it’s a good business move.
Fact. There’s zero evidence that Anet wasn’t going to charge $50 with or without giving away the core game. No evidence at all.
Those are the facts. If you want to call me a white knight for pointing out facts, go right head. I, on the other hand, refuse to resort to using labels to undermine your position because I just don’t think that’s right.
Your facts are in error. The game was on sale post announcement of the expansion and the wiki stated until very recently that it was required to play the expansion, Fact.
That is what a fact looks like.
A logical inference based on that fact is that the game until very recently was not meant to have been included in the expansion.
Arguing these points is fun maybe but it won’t make someone open their wallets, you have zero influence on that, Fact.
I’m sorry can you quote specifically which if my facts were in error. Because saying there’s an error isn’t the same thing as pointing it out. Specifically quote the error thanks.
I highlighted the error.
You highlighted something that was in no way in error. My comment translates to there’s no evidence that $50 wasn’t always going to be the price of the game with or without the expansion. No evidence at all.
So if Anet already decided the price of the base game was $50 and AFTER THAT decided they didn’t want to sell the base game separately, then you’re not paying extra for it.
The precedent being set is every 3 years you pay 50-ish bucks to play gw2. I see no problem with that.
It’s more along the lines of, every 3 years abandon your primary account if you want to get the same value out of the package as a new customer. Once again, I’m glad customers get the opportunity to take advantage of these types of bundles. The lower the barrier for entry to them, the better. However, I cannot, currently, purchase a product of equal value to them at this time. I have already purchased vanilla in the past, I have no use for it now, so there is no logical reason for me, and a surprisingly large number of other customers, to purchase a current bundle.
The easiest solution to this would honestly be for Anet to just separate the bundle into two codes, one for vanilla, one for HoT, as this makes no difference for new players, and gives the exact same product value of the bundle into the hands of old players. There are simple solutions to this “problem” that would appease those who are hesitant to purchase the expansion at the moment. The marketing team just needs to design logical bundles of new players and old players, and then the criticism for all of this will die down significantly. Of course it’s important to realize that even if they Anet does change something with their current bundles, it will take some time for them to do so. Change doesn’t happen overnight, if it happens at all. That being said, for those that share my opinion on the matter, we need to be patient, but at the same time not be afraid to continue voicing our opinion. Likewise, those who think the bundles are fair are free to do so as well.
We can have both “White Knights” and “Entitled Crybabies” (like me!) on this forum debating. It’s what a forum is for after all: exchanging ideas and views on relevant issues.
So how do you answer the fact that WoW is doing this very thing now? That it makes sense for a company to do. That by not doing it they’re hurting their own game, they’re hurting their bottom line and yes, they’d be hurting their veteran players?
I believe that you have to own HoT to have a guild hall. I was sure when I originally wrote this, but after thinking about it, I’m not.
Edited
(edited by Vayne.8563)
@Vayne of course they can. Something is only worth what it can be sold for.
At $50 Anet will sell X of the expansion
At $30 Anet will sell Y of the expansionThe market determines which is is a greater return X or Y
That has nothing to do with what I said. What I said was no one can say, at this point, without knowing everything we’re getting, that something won’t be worth it to them. They can GUESS that it won’t be worth it. They won’t know until they have more info. There isn’t enough info out.
Saying something isn’t worth it to me without having the info is more silly to me than anything is worth it. As the game adds more info, we know more and more and some people will see something that absolutely makes it worth it. But those that haven’t seen everything, who don’t know what else is coming, can’t yet say it’s not worth it.
If you told people tomorrow it had 10,000 hours of playtime in it, some people who said it wasn’t worth it today would say it was worth it.
That’s not to say that more people won’t buy it at $30 than $50. That’s a no brainer. But that has nothing to do with that I’ve said.
My point is that a consumer decides what they will and won’t pay for. That is attributing value to something, it’s done with every purchase. At $50 some will decide it’s worth it some won’t neither is wrong.
I agree with you. The consumer decides what they will and won’t pay for. And that means the consumer, before they say they will or won’t pay for it, should actually know what it is.
Without knowing how much content is in HoT, there’s no way to know if it’s worth it at this point but I’ve seen people say it’s not worth it. All they can really say is it’s not worth it from what I’ve seen so far, but it may become worth it next month. They don’t really know.
Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?
I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.
I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)
I think we’ve reached the point in the argument where people are trotting out terms like white knights because they have zero facts or evidence and so have to try to discredit people personally because they have no facts.
No, you can’t download Guild Wars 2 for free. Because maybe Anet doesn’t want the bad community that comes from completely free to play games. Maybe it’s harder to control gold sellers that way. Maybe there’s a reason why they decided to include it in HoT.
Fact, Guild Wars 2 is a buy to play game. That means you can’t just allow people to download the base game for free because they could play that for a year, two years and spend NO money. They can play the new WvW and new PvP even without buying the expansion so that would be a bad move.
Fact. Many companies have issues with upselling their expansion because new players have to make multiple purchases to catch up which is a barrier to entry. WoW stopped making people buy old expansions to be current, because it’s a good business move.
Fact. There’s zero evidence that Anet wasn’t going to charge $50 with or without giving away the core game. No evidence at all.
Those are the facts. If you want to call me a white knight for pointing out facts, go right head. I, on the other hand, refuse to resort to using labels to undermine your position because I just don’t think that’s right.
Your facts are in error. The game was on sale post announcement of the expansion and the wiki stated until very recently that it was required to play the expansion, Fact.
That is what a fact looks like.
A logical inference based on that fact is that the game until very recently was not meant to have been included in the expansion.
Arguing these points is fun maybe but it won’t make someone open their wallets, you have zero influence on that, Fact.
I’m sorry can you quote specifically which if my facts were in error. Because saying there’s an error isn’t the same thing as pointing it out. Specifically quote the error thanks.
@Vayne of course they can. Something is only worth what it can be sold for.
At $50 Anet will sell X of the expansion
At $30 Anet will sell Y of the expansionThe market determines which is is a greater return X or Y
That has nothing to do with what I said. What I said was no one can say, at this point, without knowing everything we’re getting, that something won’t be worth it to them. They can GUESS that it won’t be worth it. They won’t know until they have more info. There isn’t enough info out.
Saying something isn’t worth it to me without having the info is more silly to me than anything is worth it. As the game adds more info, we know more and more and some people will see something that absolutely makes it worth it. But those that haven’t seen everything, who don’t know what else is coming, can’t yet say it’s not worth it.
If you told people tomorrow it had 10,000 hours of playtime in it, some people who said it wasn’t worth it today would say it was worth it.
That’s not to say that more people won’t buy it at $30 than $50. That’s a no brainer. But that has nothing to do with that I’ve said.
Two Months Old Customer Felt Betrayed Already
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
You know that ‘simple sentence’ is part of their contract agreement, right? You bet people ranted. Ghost editing after someone signs and agrees to buy something tends to kitten people off.
People use words like ghost editing so glibly.
Things in games change. FAQs are changed when they change. That’s how the world works.
Clearly the original plan was to make it two sales. There were probably people in the management for and against the plan and they discussed it. They made a decision. As time went on, one side gathers more backers and they decide to make the change.
When the change is made, the FAQ has to be changed.
You can call that a Ghost Change, but in reality it’s just changing the FAQ to fit the facts.
Anet needs to refund people for the entire period of time since that first fact went up, but editing a fact to make it accurate?
Call it what you want, but it’s done all the time and the only time anyone has a problem with is is when it changes to something they don’t want to hear.
I’m really amused over people complaining over $10 USD
please tell me what you’re going to do with that $10?Going to go on Steam and buy 2-3 games that you will only play for a week before forgetting about them?
Going to go to starbucks and buy 2 cups of coffee?
Going to the movies and only have 1 lrg popcorn?
You buy games on Steam for value and worth: correct?
You go to the movies and have 1 large popcorn for value and worth: correct?This is not about pricing, this is about value and worth
You’re absolutely right. It comes down to value and worth. 100 true. Value and worth.
And so far, Anet has not shown that the game is worth $50 to a lot of people, which is absolutely not the same as showing the game is not worth $50. It’s just that there’s so much info we don’t yet have.
No one, not one single person, can honestly say the game isn’t worth $50. All anyone can honestly say is that we don’t have enough information to know.
Which means, for some people they’ve seen enough of value, like me and for some people they haven’t seen enough of value…yet.
That means those people are not obligated to preorder the game and they can wait for more information. What those people can’t say is the game isn’t worth it, because they don’t know.
Someone else want to explain how charging for the expansion, that includes the base game, is part of the package to him?
I’m convinced we’ve reached the point in this “debate” where the “Anet whiteknights” refuse to think as honest and responsible consumers and ignore logical observations.
I mean it’s fairly obvious just at initial glance that the base game is being sold as part of a bundle now, even if marketing says it’s for free. (Btw here’s a hint to determine if it is really being offered for free: Can you download GW2 base right now without purchasing an HoT bundle? No? Hmmm…)
I think we’ve reached the point in the argument where people are trotting out terms like white knights because they have zero facts or evidence and so have to try to discredit people personally because they have no facts.
No, you can’t download Guild Wars 2 for free. Because maybe Anet doesn’t want the bad community that comes from completely free to play games. Maybe it’s harder to control gold sellers that way. Maybe there’s a reason why they decided to include it in HoT.
Fact, Guild Wars 2 is a buy to play game. That means you can’t just allow people to download the base game for free because they could play that for a year, two years and spend NO money. They can play the new WvW and new PvP even without buying the expansion so that would be a bad move.
Fact. Many companies have issues with upselling their expansion because new players have to make multiple purchases to catch up which is a barrier to entry. WoW stopped making people buy old expansions to be current, because it’s a good business move.
Fact. There’s zero evidence that Anet wasn’t going to charge $50 with or without giving away the core game. No evidence at all.
Those are the facts. If you want to call me a white knight for pointing out facts, go right head. I, on the other hand, refuse to resort to using labels to undermine your position because I just don’t think that’s right.
To those who are saying they are buying the base game again, what evidence do you actually have for this. If Anet already decided to sell the expansion for $50 and included the base game in the package, you are buying nothing.
Suppose that instead of “including” it in the price of HoT, Anet just said the base game is now free. That’s it. Suppose Anet give a $10 coupon to everyone to bought hot for the base game, and permanently set the price of the base game to $10.
You’re making an assumption that you’re paying extra for something…but you have no evidence for it. Three times already, Anet has sold the base game for $10. For years they’ve been talking about not dividing the playerbase. Why do you you believe this isn’t just another attempt to keep the playerbase together?
The only way you can say you’re paying for the base game again, is if you can prove somehow that Anet is actually charging for it. All you really have is your own belief, because there’s no evidence for it.
Anet is removing the barrier to entry many games suffer. Do you know if you buy the current WoW expansion you get all the previous expansions without paying for them…as long as you pony up $15 a month.
This is a much better deal. But again, what evidence do you have that you’re paying extra for something, rather than it’s just being included for free?
Who is selling this to you? Anet or NCSoft? Who is paying Anet employees who moderate this forum?
Who tells Anet what they can or cannot release as information on the upcomming expansion?
There could be many reasons Anet hasent replied to any of this, not least of which is the possibility that they might even agree with some of it.
If you want to demand a response, demand it from NCsoft, not Anet.
I’m not so sure NcSoft if behind all the issues with Anet communication. NcSoft also owns Wildstar and they’re far more communicative. No, I think the Anet choice to talk less comes from Anet, having to deal with this particular community.
In some ways we have a very nice community, one of the nicest. But I’ve never seen a gaming community hang on every syllable of every word either. Someone says one thing once, and that’s it. It’s imprinted on the collect fan hive mind for eternity.
An extra character slot would be nice. But I seriously don’t care.
I can’t believe how much people will complain about 10-20 bucks.
I love this sort of opinion, it shows how companies get away with overpricing products that people like this comment then buy, regardless of what others perceive as proper value.
I’ll happily sell you a gobstopper for $24.99 instead of $0.99. After all, what’s 10 or 20 bucks, right? PM your address, I’ll happily sell you and all the others who have that opinion anything you want at 10-20 bucks over what I can get it delivered to you for.
This is pretty good hyperbole you have here.
Ten bucks on a 1 dollar sale is a 1000% increase. Ten bucks on a four dollar sale is 20 percent. But people are still being taken on a ride, because they’re looking at an expansion for an MMO is a boxed game that you pay one price for what’s in the box. And as long as people look at that, well.
I bought the original Guild Wars 2 box. I bought it for $200 because that’s what the collectors edition sells for in Australia. For that price, if Anet had added nothing, fixed nothing, changed nothing…I’d have been done with the game a year ago, maybe more. That means for my 200 dollars, I’d have played the game for a year, which isn’t really that bad anyway if you enjoy it.
However, Anet DID add things. They added Fractals. They added EoTM. They added 3 zones. They added the Living Story Season 1 (which they took away). They added certain mini games. They added jumping puzzles. And that was all still for that same $200.
People are so worried about spending an extra $10 on a box for a game based only on what they’re buying at launch. But when you’re buying an MMO you’re not really buying a product, you’re buying access to an amusement park.
I’m confident Anet is going to keep adding things over the next year or two, adding more and more value to my purchase. Unlike WoW and Final Fantasy, the other two largest MMOs out there, they’re not charging me $15 a month for that privilege. They’re just giving it to me.
So then I ask myself, if the price of Guild Wars 2 was raised by $10 originally, would I still have gotten my money’s worth. The answer is yes. Yes, even at 10% more I’d have gotten my money’s worth.
I see no reason to believe that won’t happen again.
Posting these posts accomplishes nothing honestly.
Do you think someone will read this and find perceived value that wasn’t there before?Your willingness to pay, does nothing for other people. Your value in the game does not effect anyone else. These posts are very pointless.
Lots of MMOs are f2p and Wow charges a fee. So the value is completely based on people’s perceived value. Which for the money a lot of people don’t think its worth it.
I have to disagree with this, because posting this sort of thing accomplishes something, even if it doesn’t change anyone’s mind. However, you’re making an assumption that all people are free thinkers, and everyone is a critical mind. Not everyone does. Which explains disco and bell bottoms. Sometimes, the peer pressure is real.
Maybe there are people out there who actually don’t think it’s so bad, but they see all this bad press and they second guess themselves. You think that doesn’t happen? I see it all the time. I have people in my guild who said, I didn’t think it was a big deal but I see all these comments. They gain doubt. They’re not so sure.
Then they see a good post, someone that has a reaction, who thought it through and reinforces the fact that they’re not alone. Some people really do need to hear that.
I’m not saying ANet did a great job of pricing or marketing (I don’t think they did). I am saying that reasonable people can disagree about what is fair.
That is so true.
But there is an old saying that “The customer is always right.”This board has gone viral. Which should at least give them pause for thought. Since so many people disagree, the right marking move might be to toss the players a bone.
All the bad press can not he;p new players want to play.Though my real point is Anet’s silence on this topic. For some reason they will not explain their side. Hence many players view it as a move to just ride it out. It looks like they do not care about us loyal players.
The customer isn’t always right though. I’ve been in business for a long long time, and sometimes, the customer is wrong.
But in this case, the customer doesn’t actually agree.
I think, for example, including the core game for free is good strategy and best for the game. I also think that people should get a character slot for their $50. But I don’t believe that the expansion is too expensive.
You don’t have one group of people here. You have the character slot crowd, the free game crowd, the it’s too expensive anyway crowd. You have people that are fine with it.
You also have accountants and a balance sheet with predictions on what you need to sell it for. And investors, in their own way are customers too. They have to be answered to.
You say Anet hasn’t said anything. Big companies don’t say things fast, because big companies aren’t run by a single person. This thing happened while Anet was still recovering from E3, not on a normal work week. People are out of place. It caught them off guard. They have one of the biggest updates of the year coming out on Tuesday and none of that stops.
So you say, because the customer is always right, they need to drop everything, make a snap decision, and say something. What if by speaking too fast they say the wrong thing? What if what they say appeases player A and kittenes off player B. What if they added a character slot to the base version and now the people who preordered at $75 are kittened off. Aren’t they customers too?
The real answer is that Anet DID say something. Gaile is collecting reactions, they are being forwarded to relevant people. That’s saying something. It’s not ignoring things.
What you want is an answer. The answer is sometimes things in business take time.
Why do you think the new LA will be on Tuesday?