Guild Wars 2

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Vayne.8563:

NNYinsanenature.5684:

Sogradde.8016:

Anecdotes are no evidence.
Vayne if you really want to shill so bad, you gotta try harder!
:^)

I don’t think he can help but make things up at this point.

Or you can listen to what devs have said for years from game to game, including some of the Guild Wars 1 devs and make an educated decision based on that information.

This game isn’t the only MMORPG in existence and for years devs have been saying how few people run the hardest content.

Most recently it was a dev from Lotro who said less than 10% of the population raids or did PvP…and that wasn’t recently that was consistently from launch.

You think Guild Wars 1 was any different?

Other devs have said similar things through the years MMOs have been a thing. Some of us ignore what devs say, some of us pay attention.

10% of your 7 million people that bought the game would 700,000. Even though its a small portion of the game its still a very large amount of people. I think all it could do by giving some of these players what they want is help the game. The majority of the things people want (like more dungeons, weapons, and classes) would not hurt anyone that does not want them. Just like how all the people that hate the LS do not have to do it and it does not hurt them. I’m so tired of people fighting against getting more new content. I honestly can not understand why anyone can attack every single idea for new content unless they are paid to do so because anet does not want to and will not do anything except for LS. Because there honestly is no down side to adding more stuff for people to do. Yes not every one is going to be pleased with everything but spreading the new content around more areas of the game (not just LS)so that each area keeps growing is your best chance of pleasing everyone at least a little bit.

7 million people brought Guild Wars 1. Do you really really believe that?

Let’s break it down. Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies. Not Prophecies. Not Factions. Not Nightfall. Not Eye of the North. I believe most players had all four games. Do that 7 million becomes a whole lot closer to 2 million.

Just about everyone I knew in my guild had multiple accounts. Between my wife and I we have five accounts.

What makes you think 7 million copies of Guild Wars 1 sold means anywhere near 7 million people buying it?

I think he was referring to your post on page 2 where you say 7 million people bought gw2. In the context, it appears you meant gw1. Pretty sure gw2 hasn’t hit 7 million either.

We do know that the 7 million was not the amount . Of people though. Just by myself I count towards over 8 of those 7 million sales.

I’d have to see the post. I certainly don’t believe 7 million copies of Guild Wars 2 have been sold. If the search function worked, I’d look for it, but it’s just not worth it at this point.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Vayne.8563:

NNYinsanenature.5684:

Sogradde.8016:

Anecdotes are no evidence.
Vayne if you really want to shill so bad, you gotta try harder!
:^)

I don’t think he can help but make things up at this point.

Or you can listen to what devs have said for years from game to game, including some of the Guild Wars 1 devs and make an educated decision based on that information.

This game isn’t the only MMORPG in existence and for years devs have been saying how few people run the hardest content.

Most recently it was a dev from Lotro who said less than 10% of the population raids or did PvP…and that wasn’t recently that was consistently from launch.

You think Guild Wars 1 was any different?

Other devs have said similar things through the years MMOs have been a thing. Some of us ignore what devs say, some of us pay attention.

10% of your 7 million people that bought the game would 700,000. Even though its a small portion of the game its still a very large amount of people. I think all it could do by giving some of these players what they want is help the game. The majority of the things people want (like more dungeons, weapons, and classes) would not hurt anyone that does not want them. Just like how all the people that hate the LS do not have to do it and it does not hurt them. I’m so tired of people fighting against getting more new content. I honestly can not understand why anyone can attack every single idea for new content unless they are paid to do so because anet does not want to and will not do anything except for LS. Because there honestly is no down side to adding more stuff for people to do. Yes not every one is going to be pleased with everything but spreading the new content around more areas of the game (not just LS)so that each area keeps growing is your best chance of pleasing everyone at least a little bit.

7 million people brought Guild Wars 1. Do you really really believe that?

Let’s break it down. Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies. Not Prophecies. Not Factions. Not Nightfall. Not Eye of the North. I believe most players had all four games. Do that 7 million becomes a whole lot closer to 2 million.

Just about everyone I knew in my guild had multiple accounts. Between my wife and I we have five accounts.

What makes you think 7 million copies of Guild Wars 1 sold means anywhere near 7 million people buying it?

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

How do you know an overwhelming amount of players used them in Guild Wars 1?

Alright then lets apply the same logic to truly universal elements in GW1.

100% of all players in GW1 had a fully customizable skill bar…and yet that is not present in GW2.

Every single player who played beyond the tutorial in GW1 had both a primary and secondary profession on their character.

So 100% of all players used those and yet Anet chose not to include them in GW2. Not being included in GW2 is not at all an indication that something was unused by the majority of players in GW1.

Yes 100% of players had a fully customizable skill bar, that doesn’t mean most players actually customized their skill bar. I’d wager most players never customized anything, people being what they are..

Everyone had a primary and secondary profession. 100% true. However, that become one of the huge problems in Guild Wars 1. You think that’s a benefit but from a game creation point of view it was impossible to balance. Why do you think Anet made some of the changes they made to this game. It’s from lessons they learned.

There’s nothing in Guild Wars 2 like a permasin or kitten monk, or an imbagon paragon. There are reasons why some changes are made. Did it occur to you that more people left the game because they couldn’t figure out builds than stayed with the game because they loved making builds. Guild Wars 1 was a niche game for a reason.

Anet chose not to make big end game areas that most people didn’t need, because it made for more players having content they like. They didn’t waste resources on it. That’s my theory.

They took away the complexity of the build system because it was harder to balance, which drove some people away and it was too confusing which drove other people away, which is good for business. It’s the exact same theory.

Whether or not the skill bar could be customized is going to cost you a huge number of players is debatable but it would undoubtedly cost you some.

By the same token, having everything laid out in the same way makes it easy to come back to the came and play different characters. Someone posted about that on these forums not long ago.

Again, it’s all about keeping the majority of the customers…that’s the theory.

If it makes you feel better I’m not in the majority either.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

snip

So, as I always ask, what percentage of the playerbase ever did those things, or did them regularly.

I played Guild Wars 1 for well over five years. During that time, I did all of the end game instances once. That’s it. Once. It wasn’t fun for me. It wasn’t entertaining. It was annoying. It’s not why I play this game. I assume I’m not alone. Well I know I’m not because I play with other people like me.

The traditional thought of many players who like that sort of thing is that most people like that sort of thing…but I’m not sure it’s true.

I think if a lot of people by percentage did run DOA or The Underworld or FoW, then Anet would have put more of it in Guild Wars 2. They didn’t.

Maybe there’s a reason for that.

And maybe you’re skewing facts.

We didn’t have Guild Halls in GW2 – yet an overwhelming majority of players used them in GW1.

We don’t have build templates in GW2 yet an overwhelming majority of players used them in GW1.

And the list could go on.
There are a lot of things they had in GW1 which a lot of players used and liked and somehow these things never made it into GW2.

I think there’s a reason for that too but not the one you’re cleverly implying. It’s just bad game design.

How do you know an overwhelming amount of players used them in Guild Wars 1? I’m curious. Because most players I know never did. Maybe you’re skewing the facts.

Bottom line is you think you know what most Guild Wars 1 players liked or did, but there’s no real way to prove it. You obviously would have hung out with people who played your game.

Since a huge number of people soloed Guild Wars 1, and many of those people never joined a Guild, it stands to reason a pretty large percentage of people never used Guild Halls.

Obviously, most of the people who solo didn’t run dungeons or elite content either. And there are always more of them than we think. It’s been said again and again by lots of people. In fact, it was such an important question that pre-launch, Can I solo Guild Wars 2 was on the FAQ.

Aside from the Guild Halls are not “playable content”. I’m not sure that anyone doesn’t play or plays a game strictly because it does or doesn’t have guild halls.

You can argue against it but honestly I almost never saw players outside guilds. Also build templates were used since almost every player I came across had to ping his bar and save different bars at some point.

You can argue against it – but it’s common sense to realize these were very commonly used in GW1 and it would be a safe bet to say the majority of players used them.

If you want to argue against everything just for the sake of arguing – then you don’t know that what different devs have said about hardcore content applies to this game.
You can speculate – but don’t have any hard facts or numbers.

So on the one hand it’s ok for you to do speculative thinking – but not for me?

Really clever Vayne.
You’re always using the “we can’t know for sure” argument when it suits you – but then go around and post stuff like :

I’ve never heard any MMO dev anywhere saying most people play through the hardest content. But I haven’t heard MMO devs quite a few times say the opposite.
We know from dev quotes that more people solo than you’d think and more people just bang about in the open world. It doesn’t matter what I like or don’t like at all.

You don’t know that for sure either – you don’t know if it even applies to this game – but you’re throwing it around as if we should accept it as a sensible premise.
So please – if you can speculate about what’s probably the case than so can I.

We can’t know for sure. It’s true. But there is annecdotal evidence, actual quotes from actual devs that talk about how few players do the hardest content. The only one I could probably find now is the newest. Would you like me to dig up that quote for you? It’s from a Lotro dev.

Then tell me that Guild Wars 1 was so different from other games that the rules that applied to virtually MMO we’ve heard of doesn’t apply to it.

Astralporing.1957:

Sogradde.8016:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not that I didn’t care about high end elite instances. It’s that a percentage of the playerbase didn’t care about elite instances. Not one or two people….a significant percentage.

I guess you can back your claim? Or are you speaking for everyone else again?

Well, that was the main reason why DoA normal mode got a nerf, and access scrolls to UW/FoW/Kanaxai/The Deep/Urgoz Warren were introduced. And why buying access to black widow/Eternal forgemaster was a quite lucrative business. It was also a common knowledge on forums, referenced often by both devs and players alike. I’m surprised you didn’t know that (maybe you weren’t that active then).

It was relatively common knowledge. There were surely guilds that specialized in DOA, as there are guilds in GW 2 that specialize in Tequatl, but there are still plenty of people in the game who’ve never beaten Tequatl and don’t care to try.

Nor do I see tons of Liadri minis running around.

A handful of people in my guild did beat Liadri, but it’s far less than 10%.

calyx.9086:

Vayne.8563:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

It’s beyond time.

It’s probably 18 months past when veteran content should have been added.

Unfortunately Anet won’t implement it because we’re not worthy.

So two new zones aren’t veteran content? Or are you thinking veteran content is only dungeons?

The problem is there are people assuming all veterans want the same stuff…I see no evidence of that.

Umm, if the average player can complete it with a mindless blob, then it’s not the “veteran” content that people are referring to. People want stuff they actually have to work at, mobs or bosses that they might have to spend hour and hours and weeks and weeks of time trying to complete and beat, which would require proper knowledge of builds, weapon sets, and combat mechanics. Content that would be frustratingly difficult for the most experienced dungeon runners in the game, and which most of the GW2 playerbase would not be able to complete due to their stubborn playhowiwant attitudes rather than actually adapting themselves to the challenge.

You still haven’t answered me? “People” want stuff…what people? How many? What percentage?

If 20% of the population of the game wanted difficult content, would that justify producing it. (Yes I pulled that number out of my kitten, it’s just a hypothetical question).

I’m pretty sure there are some veteran players, may even a big percentage of them that don’t play games to be challenged. Some people play games to relax.

And we don’t really know those percentages. But I suspect that there are more people who want something to do that isn’t particularly challenging. That’s my guess.

Anet knows how many people attempted and beat Liadri for example. It based on that, they decided not to put a huge amount of that content in the game. That’s my guess.

NNYinsanenature.5684:

Sogradde.8016:

Anecdotes are no evidence.
Vayne if you really want to shill so bad, you gotta try harder!
:^)

I don’t think he can help but make things up at this point.

Or you can listen to what devs have said for years from game to game, including some of the Guild Wars 1 devs and make an educated decision based on that information.

This game isn’t the only MMORPG in existence and for years devs have been saying how few people run the hardest content.

Most recently it was a dev from Lotro who said less than 10% of the population raids or did PvP…and that wasn’t recently that was consistently from launch.

You think Guild Wars 1 was any different?

Other devs have said similar things through the years MMOs have been a thing. Some of us ignore what devs say, some of us pay attention.

NNYinsanenature.5684:

I’m just gonna go ahead and call BS. I know LOTS of people that beat DOA so you can’t say very few. Would have made more sense if you said a small percent instead. Seems like a lot of what you say is contrived lol.

It’s very few people by percentage. 7 million people bought Guild Wars 2. I’m pretty sure a million didn’t finish DOA.

The spirit of what I’m saying you’re completely ignoring. In every single game we’ve heard devs talk about this, devs have always said only a small percentage of people ever finish the hardest content. The WoW devs said it. Guild Wars 1 devs said something similar, I wish I had the quote.

But it’s been repeated enough times over the years where only someone not paying attention wouldn’t have heard something to that effect.

By the same token I’ve never heard a dev come out and say that most people finish the hardest content.

RoseofGilead.8907:

emikochan.8504:

So glad I have an 80 of each weight class so I don’t have to pay 1k crests each time

You still have to pay for the other two glove skins (or do pvp or get luck with the greater nightmare chest).

They also drop from bandit chests.

Sogradde.8016:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not that I didn’t care about high end elite instances. It’s that a percentage of the playerbase didn’t care about elite instances. Not one or two people….a significant percentage.

I guess you can back your claim? Or are you speaking for everyone else again?

Anet devs have said so in the past. Asking me to find a Guild Wars 1 quote at this point is pointless, because it was a long time ago. But by percentage, very few people who ever played Guild Wars 1 beat DOA.

And I’m not speaking for everyone. I was in an alliance with well over 500 people at one point and most of them didn’t run elite content. It was hard to find groups for elite content, because the alliance was more casual.

Healix.5819:

CJames.2354:

I have a feeling they made leveling from 1 to 30 slower because of the Black Lion Key farming.

The key is at the end of the level 20 personal story chapter.

Leveling from 1-15 was made much faster. From there however, leveling returns to the way it was originally. The problem with that however is that from 1-15 you can basically level by only running from heart to heart whereas after that, you must explore or run around to various zones.

The game was not intended to be played like every other quest based MMO. Originally for example, hearts did not exist. You’re meant to explore the map and by 100%’ing it, you should easily be able to keep up in levels.

Tere.4759:

Honestly, at this stage, I would not recommend this game to someone who solos a lot.

I’ve never played SWToR, I heard it had a decent personal/solo story, but as a soloist, GW2 is the most solo friendly MMO I’ve played due to the lack of forced group content. Unlike other MMOs, GW2 isn’t focused on endgame dungeon/raid/group-only content.

When complaining about traits, keep in mind that the way you unlock individual traits was not a part of the NPE. Only the level at which you first unlock the tier was a part of it. Also keep in mind that leveling from 1 to 15 takes roughly 90 minutes compared to the several hours it used to take, so overall, the changes to when traits, utilities and elites are unlocked isn’t as big as a difference as it first looks.

The key is at the end of the level 10 personal story chapter.

I have 22 80s and consider myself casual as well.

Swish.2463:

Lets to a thought process for the Average consumer of something.

In this case lets say its Gw2.

You as a person decide to pay for Gw2.

You are now a part of a category between those who do and do not own Gw2.

You have just added to the Gw2 revenue for the year.

No you, as an average casual player, log in and play about lets say…

3 hours a week.

Time passes and you will fall into another category depending on your level of investment.

Someone who sets aside a specific amount of time to Play or someone who will play when they feel up to it and have some time.

If you fall into the first category you are MORE LIKELY to spend money beyond the original purchase as you are showing Investment into the game.

If its the second, you are LESS LIKELY to spend money beyond original purchase, you show little to no investment and are unlikely to care about extra trinkets or “keeping up” with other players.

Yes there are deviations from this when you find the hardcore players that get off on earning everything by only grinding. But for every one of these there is many more adult players more inclined to spend a small amount of money to reap the same rewards. Those players may have less time and play casually but the majority of them Will fall into the Hardcore or Core sub category of players.

This is basic economics and business…

Just because you personally may not fall into these or even notice others that do, doesn’t mean its not the wide spread norm.

Not every hardcore gamer is a 15 year old with no income, and many older gamers that are invested in a game are more inclined to spend a little extra money to skip through things they deem less worthy of their time. Time they would rather spend with rewards or with their family after dinner.

Casual Ted, the 45 year old that barely plays probably isn’t spending his extra money on a game he barely plays to keep up with all the hardcore players..

It is almost ALWAYS the HARDCORE players that PAY the bills for the developers. they are the TARGET audience and as prideful as they want to seem…

Candy Crush makes over 70% of its cash off of less than 7% of its players. I seriously doubt those 7% are just casually playing the game for less than 15 minutes a week..

Farmville is exactly the same.

It may not be you. but its your Group, the hardcore and the Veteran, that complains the loudest while throwing the most cash all at the same time.

kittenumption is bad, because you’re confusing casual with people who don’t play a lot. Casual doesn’t have to mean that.

I can guarantee I’ve played more hours than most players, but I consider myself casual. The stuff “hard core players” ask for doesn’t interest me at all. And I spend money. A lot of money because I like the game and I have a lot of money. I don’t need have the crap I get, but I still like to support Anet.

Saying a casual players is only someone who plays X hours a week is missing the point, because I have a guild full of people like me who don’t really do “hard” content, or PvP…except very casually, and many of us spend money in the gem store.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

I’m talking about end-game content, such as revisited version/iterations of Fissure of Woe, Underworld, Urgoz’s Warren, The Deep, etc. That was end-game content. It required skill, knowledge and a good cooperative team to execute successfully.

What we have right now is fractals (which some people get bored of very easily) and not even a hard mode for dungeons. Just because you have two new L80 zones which are getting thinner by the day (yes I’ve seen it happen for myself) which are LS-invoked hardly qualifies it as veteran content.

Obviously the game needs more challenging content in ALL modes of gameplay, but our voices aren’t being heard… and even if they are, there’s no way they’ll respond back with “yes we can implement this”… why is that? (besides being mentioned in a CDI) Oh that’s right, the policy, again.

So, as I always ask, what percentage of the playerbase ever did those things, or did them regularly.

I played Guild Wars 1 for well over five years. During that time, I did all of the end game instances once. That’s it. Once. It wasn’t fun for me. It wasn’t entertaining. It was annoying. It’s not why I play this game. I assume I’m not alone. Well I know I’m not because I play with other people like me.

The traditional thought of many players who like that sort of thing is that most people like that sort of thing…but I’m not sure it’s true.

I think if a lot of people by percentage did run DOA or The Underworld or FoW, then Anet would have put more of it in Guild Wars 2. They didn’t.

Maybe there’s a reason for that.

And maybe you’re skewing facts.

We didn’t have Guild Halls in GW2 – yet an overwhelming majority of players used them in GW1.

We don’t have build templates in GW2 yet an overwhelming majority of players used them in GW1.

And the list could go on.
There are a lot of things they had in GW1 which a lot of players used and liked and somehow these things never made it into GW2.

I think there’s a reason for that too but not the one you’re cleverly implying. It’s just bad game design.

How do you know an overwhelming amount of players used them in Guild Wars 1? I’m curious. Because most players I know never did. Maybe you’re skewing the facts.

Bottom line is you think you know what most Guild Wars 1 players liked or did, but there’s no real way to prove it. You obviously would have hung out with people who played your game.

Since a huge number of people soloed Guild Wars 1, and many of those people never joined a Guild, it stands to reason a pretty large percentage of people never used Guild Halls.

Obviously, most of the people who solo didn’t run dungeons or elite content either. And there are always more of them than we think. It’s been said again and again by lots of people. In fact, it was such an important question that pre-launch, Can I solo Guild Wars 2 was on the FAQ.

Aside from the Guild Halls are not “playable content”. I’m not sure that anyone doesn’t play or plays a game strictly because it does or doesn’t have guild halls.

There are people who dislike the new leveling experience intensely. There are people who like it better than it used to be.

One thing you should realize is that the NPE isn’t the trait revamp which happened many months before that.

I like the NPE but strongly dislike the trait revamp. They’re different animals.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Vayne.8563:

So, as I always ask, what percentage of the playerbase ever did those things, or did them regularly.

I played Guild Wars 1 for well over five years. During that time, I did all of the end game instances once. That’s it. Once. It wasn’t fun for me. It wasn’t entertaining. It was annoying. It’s not why I play this game. I assume I’m not alone. Well I know I’m not because I play with other people like me.

The traditional thought of many players who like that sort of thing is that most people like that sort of thing…but I’m not sure it’s true.

I think if a lot of people by percentage did run DOA or The Underworld or FoW, then Anet would have put more of it in Guild Wars 2. They didn’t.

Maybe there’s a reason for that.

The reason they didn’t is because they took it into an entirely different direction. It was not merely a simple follow-on from GW1, there was a 250-year hiatus. Obviously with different writers in the game the story is going to go in different directions as well. It’s our job as players to influence the writers/designers/implementers of the game that we want this kind of content back in GW2.

Whose problem is it that you didn’t llike GW1 content? Anyone’s here? Certainly not. But that’s what I see people looking for when asked about new content, I mean the elite areas weren’t exactly pleasant; they were designed to be testing to a good team. I had as much exposure to GW1 as you did, and I managed to clock in 3 GWAMM’s. Yay me, right? Nope. Clearly I enjoyed the game a fair bit more than you did, as well as the challenge the game offered as end-game content.

So, at the risk of going off-topic, if you played GW1 for all of 5 years and only did the content once over, what the hell else did you do in the game? Maybe what you meant to say was that you owned GW1 for 5 years, played the content once, didn’t like it and moved onto something else. That stops you big-noting yourself.

Even in the middle of 2012 before GW2 was released, when Zaishen quests took people to elite areas, I found no shortage of people LFP. Get a team going, execute the content, cash in at the NPC. Simple enough in design and execution. The hard bit would be getting a team together, but like I said, there was plenty of people partying up.

See that’s the bit you don’t get. You think repeating the elite zones over and over again is content and I think being out in the world and experiencing the story, lore, on different characters with different builds is open content. Vanquishing was fun for me…and that wasn’t done in UW or Slaver’s Exile.

The point is…you’ve missed the point.

It’s not that I didn’t care about high end elite instances. It’s that a percentage of the playerbase didn’t care about elite instances. Not one or two people….a significant percentage.

Now you may doubt that, but logically if everyone ran elite instances all the time, then logically Anet would have put more of them in Guild Wars 2. That they didn’t probably says something.

I’ve never heard any MMO dev anywhere saying most people play through the hardest content. But I haven’t heard MMO devs quite a few times say the opposite.

We know from dev quotes that more people solo than you’d think and more people just bang about in the open world. It doesn’t matter what I like or don’t like at all.

But it does matter what the biggest percentage of the playerbase likes. We mostly have no idea of what that is…but I can pretty much guarantee that Anet knows better than we do.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

I’m talking about end-game content, such as revisited version/iterations of Fissure of Woe, Underworld, Urgoz’s Warren, The Deep, etc. That was end-game content. It required skill, knowledge and a good cooperative team to execute successfully.

What we have right now is fractals (which some people get bored of very easily) and not even a hard mode for dungeons. Just because you have two new L80 zones which are getting thinner by the day (yes I’ve seen it happen for myself) which are LS-invoked hardly qualifies it as veteran content.

Obviously the game needs more challenging content in ALL modes of gameplay, but our voices aren’t being heard… and even if they are, there’s no way they’ll respond back with “yes we can implement this”… why is that? (besides being mentioned in a CDI) Oh that’s right, the policy, again.

So, as I always ask, what percentage of the playerbase ever did those things, or did them regularly.

I played Guild Wars 1 for well over five years. During that time, I did all of the end game instances once. That’s it. Once. It wasn’t fun for me. It wasn’t entertaining. It was annoying. It’s not why I play this game. I assume I’m not alone. Well I know I’m not because I play with other people like me.

The traditional thought of many players who like that sort of thing is that most people like that sort of thing…but I’m not sure it’s true.

I think if a lot of people by percentage did run DOA or The Underworld or FoW, then Anet would have put more of it in Guild Wars 2. They didn’t.

Maybe there’s a reason for that.

The thing is, gear with higher stats doesn’t thrill or interest me and never did. Getting a cool looking skin is more exciting to me.

That’s what this game is about. If you’re not into it, there are many games with gear grind.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

It’s beyond time.

It’s probably 18 months past when veteran content should have been added.

Unfortunately Anet won’t implement it because we’re not worthy.

So two new zones aren’t veteran content? Or are you thinking veteran content is only dungeons?

The problem is there are people assuming all veterans want the same stuff…I see no evidence of that.

When they introduced the new modrem part extractor it guaranteed you could get the first parts you missed, the shoulder parts.

One can only assume there’ll be a new mordrem extractor with the new update that provides you with what you need to get the parts you need.

Which means you don’t have to farm it now, you can just wait and play what you want.

Colin said something for altoholics is in the works, so I’m cautiously optimistic. I play a bit less than I used to, but not significantly less. After all, the guild is still pretty busy for a good portion of the day.

I once bought the wrong precusor from the trading post. lol

My wife’s birthday was coming up and I was going to surprise here with the precursor. Fortunately it wasn’t one of the more expensive ones, and I ended up keeping it and making my fourth legendary, but man, I was bummed.

I actually sent in through in game mail, the wrong precursor on her birthday. And I’m watching her face when she opened her mail. As soon as she saw it, I knew it was the wrong one. She was all thankful but you don’t live with someone this long without knowing.

So I bought the right one (thus bankrupting myself completely) and sent it to her and told her to send me that one back.

Stupid mistake. lol

As a PvE player, I feel pretty bad for PvPers and WvWer’s. I think they really got the short end of the stick. I may not love everything that comes down the pike, but at least I have stuff to do. New zones are fun to explore. New achievements are fun for me.

My only real complaint is that due to the changes in the trait system, I don’t really level alts like I used to, which I really enjoyed. However I like to play those alts at max level and it’s too expensive to buy traits for tons of alts, and it’s too much repetitive work to get the traits unlocked the free way on every alt.

So that part of my game has been taken away. That used to fill a lot of time while I was waiting for new content. Now it doesn’t.

McSlappy.1372:

Vayne.8563:

Part of the current population might like having their own farm to grow things. And part won’t.

This is what I talk about all the time. Everyone thinks that they have some idea of what the current population wants. What we have here is a whole bunch of micropopulations with some crossover.

I do believe, however, that anything Anet implements will kitten off someone.

LOL WoW had that two years ago. Some were like Wtf. Basically those that liked it used it those that didn’t didn’t no big deal. Now two years later Blizz introduced Garrisons which is turning out to be near unanimously considered to be fairly awesome. So far this has been the largest single expansion of content ever released in that game. Having looked at a few of the Living Story content. Personal observations way more content then all the trickle GW2 content. And there are the content release patches coming out every couple months that are by themselves generally bigger then the LS patches.

So if GW2 wants to survive they better come out with something that can compete with that. Because for at least the next year or so till the next inter expansion lul happens pulling people off real content for freebie content is gonna be difficult. I think it was GameBreaker that had an article about NCsoft financial calls with GW2 in decline.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-02-14-guild-wars-2-in-steep-decline-in-weak-q4-for-ncsoft

25% of previous year? OUCH. Well that’s what the big company direction is. Server and staff consolidation.

Before one comments on markets, one should understand how markets work. The guy who wrote that article apparently doesn’t have a clue either. To simplify…

Almost every single game drops significantly over time. Only a tiny percent of games make as much two years after launch than 1 year after launch and, get this, these falls are figured into the business plan. Guild Wars 2 is meeting the business plan, the expected profits, or NCsoft would have laid off workers when they laid off the other workers associated with NCsoft Northwest.

More important is that the profits of the game/company are quote in Korean currency because it’s a Korean company. Now, money a game makes in US and EU currency, which is most of the money of Guild Wars 2, has to go through changes to get to the currency of the game. A year ago, Won was weaker against the US dollar so the exchange rate was smaller. Now the Won is stronger and so the exchange rate is weaker…and yes that figures heavily into profit.

Which means even if there was a 25% decreased year on year (there wasn’t, it was less than that) almost half that decrease comes down to global exchange rates, rather than how much the game was taking in.

There are many people here who will never play WoW or will never play WoW again. I’m pretty sure there are more people who will never go back to WoW than there are those who actively play the game.

So yeah, before commenting on finances, you might want to do some research.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

First of all, I would expect them to deliver an expansion very close in style to the game we all purchased, why wouldn’t they?
As far as who holds the reigns I’m sure it is NCSoft and not Anet, and if they could answer one thing it would be this “who’s policy is this, Anet’s or NCSofts?” At least then we would know who to direct our frustration towards and know if there is any way to have it changed.

I think it’s pretty foolish to answer that question. I mean it would be like me as a manager, telling customers that sorry about this policy it’s the owner and I can’t do anything about it…but doing it publicly where the owner can see it.

I wouldn’t think it would help my status in the company. I mean in a more casual environment, you might get away with saying it to a customer here and there, but posting it publicly on a forum for everyone to see is probably not going to endear you to management.

I think OP, you’ll find that in most games that offer both open world PvP servers and PvE servers, the bulk of the population ends up on PvE servers.

That’s how it was in both WoW and Rift when I played and there’s a reason for it.

Not everyone wants to be competitive all the time. Not everyone wants to have to deal with getting ganked while doing something completely unrelated.

And in a game like this, which has no factions, it would make less than no sense.

Edit: As an example, Rift currently has 7 servers in the US server pool and only 1 of them is a PvP server. The other six are PvE servers (one if which is an RP server).

misterman.1530:

Vayne.8563:

However this topic really isn’t about whether the game is good or bad, or well or dying. It’s about Anet clarifying their direction for the game.

I’ve met very very few people who think it’s a bad idea.

It’s not whether it’s a bad idea or not…they can’t clarify their direction for the game because they don’t have one that will satisfy the current population. Here’s what I think they are working on:

1. Tyria Farms[sup]™[/sup] - where you have your own instanced farm. You can get “friends” to help plant things in your farm. You can send constant in game mail to the accounts of anyone you want, begging for help, or spend gems to get more exotic plants. “Tyria Farms[sup]™[/sup] - nothing like Farmville, no sir”

2. Fashion Designer – where you can buy patterns, mix-and-match, and design your own clothing! Patterns available in the gem store if you don’t want to wait for the RNG to kick in.

3. Miss/Mr Tyria – where the style-conscious can gather to vote on their favorite outfit. It’s like Barbie, but with Charr!

Then NCSoft and Anet can claim to have created a new style MMO…not an MMORPG, but MMOCGPE (Massive, Multiplayer, Casual Game Play Experience)!

How do you know they won’t have one that will satisfy the “current” population. First of all no one knows what they have planned, so you’re guessing. But even if you did, my guess is what they have planned, almost whatever it is, will satisfy a portion of the “current population”.

Part of the current population might like having their own farm to grow things. And part won’t.

This is what I talk about all the time. Everyone thinks that they have some idea of what the current population wants. What we have here is a whole bunch of micropopulations with some crossover.

I do believe, however, that anything Anet implements will kitten off someone.

I agree there are some glaring issues with the game, but I think all MMORPGs have glaring issues. If you think these forums are bad, take a read of the Archeage forums.

However this topic really isn’t about whether the game is good or bad, or well or dying. It’s about Anet clarifying their direction for the game.

I’ve met very very few people who think it’s a bad idea.

You know, the OP is beautifully written. I love the way it’s worded. The problem with beautifully written text is that it can make things seem obvious that might not be true. It’s what good writers do all the time.

For example, I don’t know that this “baby” would die without PvP. It would lose some people for sure, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it would die. In the long run, it might even attract more people who just don’t like PvP and still see this game as a PvP game. I know people who didn’t even try the game because they associate Guild Wars as a franchise with PvP.

Lines like the game will die without players, that’s true, but it implies that if you don’t follow the rest of the formula, you won’t have the players, and that’s not necessarily a given.

The reason why a game isn’t like a baby is because a game needs players and income, but it really doesn’t need anything else. Games like candy cane crush just need a lot of people addicted to candy cane crush….and nothing else.

There are plenty of games that focus on one thing or another, that run for a very long time. Sometimes, focusing on your strengths in a game, and cutting away the dead weight is good for business.

Open world PvP is probably one of the few things that could drive me from this game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Possibly. But we know the Tengu were there and closed their doors. What if the Tengu were simply attacked and our response, in spite of their past refusal to side with us, is to help rescue them.

It really could be that easy. It doesn’t require a big build up. You can have a big build up, or you can simply use the shock of something unexpected. Both are valid dramatic tools.

I could see it both ways, such as after we kill Mordremoth (it’s coming soon and you know it) Primordius is the next to step up to the plate and invades the Dominion of Winds . . . forcing the Tengu out, and the Pact has to push back in to destroy the beachhead of the Destroyers coming to the surface en masse.

Afterwards, the Tengu grudgingly side with the races of Tyria during the first break of LS3 and everyone gets a new character slot free and access to Tengu as a new race. They also bring with them new training methods which produce new skills which can be learned through Skill Challenges inside the Dominion of Winds and the tengu lands.

Boom. There you go, new race, new skills, and the break can be used for players to adjust to the new offerings before going back to the story.

But even if it’s possible, I still believe they’re working on an actual expansion. I’ll take it either way.

Goliath.7546:

The thing that gets me is the first 30 levels before the first dungeon. They are so painfully boring and slow. I hate running around doing heart quests I’ve already done and I find to be awfully tedious. Wish there was a minigame/dungeon sort of way to level at the start that was viable.

What about EoTM?

Xenon.4537:

Vayne.8563:

I can honestly see a new race being added through the living story. Hell Edge of the Mists was added through a living story so why not a new race?

Well I got halfway through a rebuttal before changing my mind. I do have some reservations though. I don’t personally believe Anet has any plans in the near or far future to add a new race via the living world, and here’s why.

Let’s use Tengu as an example. If Anet were to somehow introduce them as a playable race, they would have to draw them in to the story in a huge way. It would probably require an entire arc, if not an entire season to do it justice. Here’s how I see it happening:

Pre- Season X
- Tengu are mentioned more and more
- the story hints at Tengu involvement in the future

Season X
- episode 1: something big happens causing Tengu to be dragged in to the fight against the elder dragons, the become a playable race. This opens a starter zone for players to bring their Tengu in to the world in the proper context of the story having Zhaitan and Scarlet defeated, etc etc.
- episode 2: The Tengu are still new to the alliance against the dragons and political drama ensues. New content is added/revamped to a low-mid level zone allowing for intermediate Tengus to progress as characters.
- episode 3, 4, 5, 6, 7: Tengu continue to develop as a race in the story and establish their place among the other races. New content is added for every 10 or so levels up to 80 to allow fresh Tengu players to progress through a story similar to the personal story.
- episode 8: Season finale. The Tengu as a race establish their roll alongside the other races as a powerful force to fight the dragons. Tengu players are expected to be 80 by the time they play this episode.

The reason I see it happening this way is because it would make little sense to just throw Tengu into the old personal story. Releasing them via the living world means they should take center stage in the story. What kind of story would the Tengu have, and how could it possibly be condensed into anything less than a whole season with multiple episodes? Or at least one very big episode? But then it might as well be an actual expansion.

Anyway, I would love to see it happen, but chances are Anet is going to just keep churning out the same thing they have since season 2 started: ~2 hour story bites with a nifty new map and some armor/weapon skins to work towards.

Possibly. But we know the Tengu were there and closed their doors. What if the Tengu were simply attacked and our response, in spite of their past refusal to side with us, is to help rescue them.

It really could be that easy. It doesn’t require a big build up. You can have a big build up, or you can simply use the shock of something unexpected. Both are valid dramatic tools.

Csele.1647:

Ykfox.3825:

So, I’m curious… why exactly is everyone assuming there won’t be a new dungeon/raid/etc. introduced via Living World?

I mean, they’re clearly moving us towards a confrontation with Mordremoth, and assuming they follow the method they used for Zhaitan, there will eventually be a new dungeon.

Because they fired their dungeon team more than a year ago .

They didn’t fire the dungeon team. One guy left the company, the rest of the team is still working there, but they’re no longer a dungeon team.

Since the dungeon team has been disbanded, dungeons have been added to this game.

Let’s keep the misinformation at a minimum.

Xenon.4537:

Ykfox.3825:

So, I’m curious… why exactly is everyone assuming there won’t be a new dungeon/raid/etc. introduced via Living World?

I mean, they’re clearly moving us towards a confrontation with Mordremoth, and assuming they follow the method they used for Zhaitan, there will eventually be a new dungeon.

I think a lot of people are rather cynical about the direction of this game nowadays. A lot of glass half empty. From the player perspective, the game moves at a snails pace, and the communication is just not there.

- Raids might be a pipe dream
- Zhaitan was a terrible fight that no one wants to see repeated
- thus far the story has only come in ~2 hour bite sized pieces
- each episode feels like a promotional release alongside gem store items
- the cool new maps seem to be the one most redeeming element in GW2’s future

People are starved for some kind of really big, amazing thing that (from past experience with other games) only an expansion would bring. Can you honestly see an entire new profession, continent, or playable race added through the living story? The scope of each episode is much too small to accommodate those things.

Speaking of new continents, at the rate Anet is releasing new maps, it will be 2035 by the time we make it to Elona or Cantha.

I can honestly see a new race being added through the living story. Hell Edge of the Mists was added through a living story so why not a new race?

szygum.2607:

The simpliest answer is always the best answer.
They aren’t annoucing anything because there is nothing to announce. Simple.

The simplest answer is that business announce things like expansions when it’s profitable to do so. When SWToR came out, Trion went completely silent about Rift and stayed silent for three months. It wasn’t that they had nothing in the works. It was that they didn’t want to waste advertising dollars, because they knew they couldn’t compete with SWToR.

The WoW expansion has been hyped for months and it’s just come out. Which means that spending time hyping or even mentioning something that would get lost would be a waste of opportunity.

Watching the industry is how you find out what’s going on. Not by guessing.

Any game that focuses on gear progression isn’t for me… I don’t really care what else the game has or doesn’t.

Nokaru.7831:

Vayne.8563:

In any event why should two vendors sell the exact same item for such a huge difference in price?

The 16 copper price is probably a bug.

16 copper is the standard price across the game for 2 point alcohol. 1 silver 20 copper is the standard price throughout the game for 16 point alcohol.

Here’s the wiki page.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alcohol

Elestian.6134:

Sure, having the points gained per consumption more readily displayed would be fine, and having gold prices standardized would bring it in line with karma (7 karma/point for all drinks, no exceptions), but…

I guess I don’t understand why you would invest a sum of gold that you consider “a lot… to waste” in these drinks without even first confirming their points per consumption through the achievement panel? Is using wiki any different in outcome than personally checking these values? And considering there’s no reasonable expectation that such values are standardized in the first place, would you not still want to compare these points/price among vendors across all explorable regions?

In instances like this, it seems to me that the advantages of using wiki as an additional resource are obvious. Even if the points per consumption were added to the items’ description (an agreeable improvement), you should still find yourself using wiki’s comprehensive information to maximize efficiency in whatever you do, such that you spare yourself the labor of needlessly researching these things in game.

I spent the gold first, because merchants who offer high tier alcohol don’t hang around for that long, and since I didn’t know how long the vendor would be there for, he could have easily disappeared by the time I went to check it out.

Edit: In addition, having brought alcohol in many many places in the game, the game taught me to understand that the more you spend on alcohol the more it gives you toward your achievement, which makes a certain sense, since that’s all it’s good for.

Every time I’ve bought cheap alcohol it provided few points. Every time I’ve bought expensive alcohol it’s provided more points. It’s logical to assume that this was set up in the same way that alcohol is set up in the rest of the game.

Sogradde.8016:

Vayne.8563:

This is the kind of thing that annoys the hell out of me. I don’t play games to go backwards.

Exactly, you don’t like it. It doesn’t bother me though, I like the current system.
Stop trying to speak for all of us, Vayne!!!1111

Which is what I’m not doing. I simply said it annoys the hell out of me. I said why I don’t play games.

What I’m not saying is the “community” doesn’t like this. But thanks for stopping by.

Ohoni.6057:

The metrics on GW2 are NOT to be relied upon. As already explained, my guild is proof of that.

Thanks for the offtopic again. /smh

No, Vayne’s right here. He wasn’t just going by the “how many people have logged in” metric, which as you noted is flawed (I also have a personal guild), he’s going by the full roster, and checking to see how many people on that list, individually, had logged in within the last week. That doesn’t mean they participated in the guild, but it should accurately reflect whether they logged into the game or not.

Yeah I’m sure some of those people only join us occassionally for guild missions, but I see them in all the time. Out of those 98 people, I’m sure more than 90 of them actively play.

Danikat.8537:

I agree it would be helpful for it to show how many points alcohol gives you. It would also be helpful if the price per point was standardised.

Thanks for the reasonable response. It may not seem like a lot to people but 4 gold is a lot of money for me to waste.

I don’t know, Necros, to me anyway, are a lot better than they used to be.

I usually do that. That’s where I buy almost all my alcohol. And if there was a way to click without breaking my hand, that would be an acceptable alternative, but having to buy one at a time and then drink them is more than my hand is willing to take. That’s why I thought I’d go for higher tier alcohol. Less clicking. For that it was worth the gold.

What I ended up with was more clicking for gold instead of karma.

Careful mate, I posted that very same thing in response to a similar type thread and got an infraction for it.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Vayne.8563:

Well I’m sure there are more than just hundreds considering in my guild alone 98 people logged in and played last week. And we’re not a huge guild.

Interesting point – to show just how flawed the metrics in this game are, did you know that 16 people logged in last week from my guild? I find that kind of interesting, since I’m the only one in it.

I don’t put too much stock into the figures/metrics this game possesses, and neither should anyone else. And it’s no surprise that I and others are trying to redirect the topic of the thread back on course from another Vayne segué.

On topic, I like the idea of getting more constructive and somewhat definitive information in the form of updates on the game’s direction. If we can be told what to expect in some more defined type of outlook (stuff that we know will be happening, not could be happening, as clarified by Gaile) it would go a long way to appeasing the ‘angry mobs’ here, helping the dev’s focus on certain points of the game and giving the players something to look forward to.

Umm hate to break it to you but my metrics are different. I actually went down the guild roster and looked at last log in date.

Why doesn’t alcohol in this game tell you how many points it will give you before you buy it?

Today I was in Bloodtide Coast and came across Donalla in Whisperwill bogs, selling alcohol for 1 silver 20 copper. It’s like like 3 gold per stack.

In other places in the game, alcohol that costs this gives you like 16 or 17 points on your title track. I bought like a stack and a half, only to find out the alcohol I was buying was only giving me 2 points each. So I went to the wiki:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flask_of_Special_Reserve_Blood_Whiskey

Appparently there’s another NPC elsewhere selling this SAME alcohol for 16 copper. Okay it’s my own fault for not checking but…I don’t really want to have to look in the wiki to find out what I’m buying from a vendor. It’s like this one transaction basically cancels out the dungeon runs I did today.

This is the kind of thing that annoys the hell out of me. I don’t play games to go backwards.

I’d like to see alcohol show how much it counts to the title track when you mouse over it. Every single time I have to go to a wiki to check something, it takes me out of the game.

In any event why should two vendors sell the exact same item for such a huge difference in price?

Vix.6730:

Sytherek.7689:

Gaile,

Don’t let the obsessives and forum warriors get you down. There are millions of people enjoying the game and playing. Happy players are playing, not posting.

Sucking up the community reps will not get you a LinkedIn invite. There’s hasn’t been “millions of players” in GW2 since launch. For NA we’re looking at thousands, if not hundreds. While we do appreciate Gaile’s efforts in calming the angry mob that has become the forum, nothing in this medium will change the direction of GW2 aside from bug fixes. You’re so called “forum warriors” are long standing patrons that have more than likely invested thousands of hours in a world they have come to love and appreciate – show them some respect.

Well I’m sure there are more than just hundreds considering in my guild alone 98 people logged in and played last week. And we’re not a huge guild.

If one small guild on one server had 98 people log in, it’s reasonably certain that we don’t merely have hundreds of players.

The truth is you have no real clue how many players there are, so you should probably stop guessing.

Nokaru.7831:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve spoken out about the changes to the later chapters.

You sure did.

Vayne.8563:

It was a good change because of the situation in Orr.

I love this. First of all you left off the part where I said it was bad because of this and good because of that. So you’re immediately proving yourself to be disingenuous. Here’s a quote from a previous thread Harry Potter and the NPC…from me.

“No question at all, the changes to the end of the Personal story was bad. Not only no argument from me, but I’ve already said it elsewhere. They’re very bad.”

Unless you want to try to take that quote out of context too.

Nokaru.7831:

Vayne.8563:

(snip) irrelevant stuff (snip)

You backtrack at least three times with the first chapter of the Personal Story 2.0. There’s nothing more unnatural than that with regards to map flow. Queensdale is very poorly designed from a leveling perspective without the Personal story guiding the player around it the way it used to. It’s backtrack city now.

I don’t expect to convince someone (you) who is defending the butchering of the later chapters of the Personal Story, and then says the old way was more “unnatural.” Laughable.

See this is where you lose credibility. I’ve spoken out about the changes to the later chapters.

But the rest of what was said makes no sense.

What I said wasn’t irrelevant. You’re just prejudice to ALL the changes because you don’t like some.