@DeceiverX.8361
What I mean to get at is that the current format for living world doesn’t seem to include a lot of the big things that expansions have, like new races, classes, skills, weapons, maps, dungeons, end game, etc. The format has been far simpler.
Each episode consists of:
- one section of a new map
- a small handful of story instances totaling 1-3 hours tops
- an armor piece OR backpack OR weapon skin
- a new type of enemy
- some dynamic events
- some achievements
I talked about this with Vayne the other day, but I don’t see things like races, classes, or dungeons fitting in to the scope of this format. I can MAYBE see a single new skill OR weapon being added through this format, but it’s unlikely because everyone is just terrified of possible balance issues. It’s sad that everyone ignores the fact that balance can be addressed with further patching.
Races are even less likely because they would need a whole story arc (multiple episodes) dedicated to them, and new animations, and a laundry list of new armor skins to fit their body, etc, etc. These are things that are beyond the scope of a single episode of the current format, and it would simply make more sense to do a whole expansion to accommodate all of it as a cohesive package instead of a hodge-podge of separate episodes.
Only a small team is working on the current season. And we see the maximum of content it can provide. Assumed much bigger teams are working on the big projects – let us call them season 3 and 4 – it is easily possible to deliver larger quantities of content: bigger maps, skills, new weapons etc.
If Arenanet fear balance issues caused by new skills we will never see them – not via LW and not via X-pac. If it is too much work to design gear and animations for a new race the reace will never be released.
There’s absolutely no reason to believe Anet has a secret team working on an expansion in the background. And you have no idea how big the living world team is. Maybe you’re right, but maybe you’re wrong. All we know is there is no official statement on an expansion, and they seem to be going ahead with the current living world model full steam.
Anet said there are 20 people on the living world team now and they said the rest of the team is working on longer term bigger projects. They even said as one big project gets launch they work on the next ones.
Where did they say that?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Enough-of-your-GMPC-please/page/3#post4193277
Here. If it is really true that only ~ twenty people works on the living story releases that , including the maps & dynamic events that would mean most of anet’s resources is spent on something else, however the twenty people on the LS team could mean only the story part of the releases…. also they mentioned “Big background projects” numerous times, but we don’t know what they meant, perhaps we already got them with the new zones, megaservers or china release.
That’s very interesting. I was under the impression that they had far more than 20 people. I mean during season 1 they said they had 4 different living world teams, each with around 20 people, which would bring it to about 80 people in total working on living world. That still leaves over 200 people, around 300 total working at Anet. But I still feel like Anet’s idea of “big background project” is something like the wardrobe or the NPE, not a full blown expansion.
Maybe I’ll be wrong. Maybe the reason Anet has been so quiet and slow to talk about an expansion is because they are working on a stand alone GW2 side-quel just like they made Factions and Nightfall. Maybe its taking them longer than a usual expansion because it needs to be a full stand alone game.
If they do anything they’ll do an expansion. They wont’ be doing a stand alone game. They said it a long time ago, but the logic that works against them doing a traditional expansion works against that too. They don’t want to divide the player base.
If this is all you can bring up for spotty honesty then Anet is more honest than most companies.
I’ll give you a better example.
“We think everyone, including casual players, should have the best gear by the time they hit level 80.” vs “We didn’t expect players to get the best gear so quickly.”
There are other, equally egregious examples, but I think the point is made.
Now when the game launched that was true. The situation changed when they saw people getting exotic gear and leaving the game. So were they dishonest, or did they change their mind. There is such a huge difference in this.
Years ago, due to doctors advice, everyone gave up butter to eat margerine. The doctors believed at the time that it was healtier. Now they tell you margerine is a killer and you’re better off with butter. Did the doctors lie? Were they dishonest.
The first paragraph says “we believe” and I’m sure when they said that that’s exactly what they did believe.
Only the least forgiving person could call that a lie, unless you have proof that when they said it they didn’t believe it. Things change in my life all the time and I make statements based on now. I’m not lying if the situation changes.
@DeceiverX.8361
What I mean to get at is that the current format for living world doesn’t seem to include a lot of the big things that expansions have, like new races, classes, skills, weapons, maps, dungeons, end game, etc. The format has been far simpler.
Each episode consists of:
- one section of a new map
- a small handful of story instances totaling 1-3 hours tops
- an armor piece OR backpack OR weapon skin
- a new type of enemy
- some dynamic events
- some achievements
I talked about this with Vayne the other day, but I don’t see things like races, classes, or dungeons fitting in to the scope of this format. I can MAYBE see a single new skill OR weapon being added through this format, but it’s unlikely because everyone is just terrified of possible balance issues. It’s sad that everyone ignores the fact that balance can be addressed with further patching.
Races are even less likely because they would need a whole story arc (multiple episodes) dedicated to them, and new animations, and a laundry list of new armor skins to fit their body, etc, etc. These are things that are beyond the scope of a single episode of the current format, and it would simply make more sense to do a whole expansion to accommodate all of it as a cohesive package instead of a hodge-podge of separate episodes.
Only a small team is working on the current season. And we see the maximum of content it can provide. Assumed much bigger teams are working on the big projects – let us call them season 3 and 4 – it is easily possible to deliver larger quantities of content: bigger maps, skills, new weapons etc.
If Arenanet fear balance issues caused by new skills we will never see them – not via LW and not via X-pac. If it is too much work to design gear and animations for a new race the reace will never be released.
There’s absolutely no reason to believe Anet has a secret team working on an expansion in the background. And you have no idea how big the living world team is. Maybe you’re right, but maybe you’re wrong. All we know is there is no official statement on an expansion, and they seem to be going ahead with the current living world model full steam.
Anet said there are 20 people on the living world team now and they said the rest of the team is working on longer term bigger projects. They even said as one big project gets launch they work on the next ones.
I think that the entire dungeon reward system needs to be overhauled. I don’t get why you get 1.5 gold from AC Path 3, but 1 Gold from paths in dungeons that take much longer to run.
They had planned to rebalance/overhaul all dungeon explorables and adjust rewards properly as part of their initiative(of the beginning of 2013) to curb dominance of power specs back during the mid of 2013.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/dungeon-rewards/
Ascalonian Catacombs was the only dungeon since then to receive the rebalance, hence why it has a higher gold reward. Arah did not receive a rebalance but still received a “hot change” in its reward structure.
What I have quoted from you is a small piece of what I have been waiting on for a very long time now.
Oh yeah, I forgot all about that. It’s something that needs to be looked at. I can see why dungeon runners would be disgruntled.
They used a token system in dungeons because there are 8 of them or 28 explorable paths. There’s one fractals.
And dungeons are fast enough to run for profit…fractals not so much. People FARM dungeons. Most people don’t farm fractals.
1. I am unofficially vetoing your argument here. I have seen you argue in other threads (threads about lack of content added to the game) that fractals is more than one dungeon because it’s broken into different paths. Now in this case, it’s “only one”? Your argument is therefore invalid.
2. Your second point again tells me the rewards are broken in the game and rather than solve that problem they lather on more RNG.
Yes, Fractals are technically a dungeon, that’s what I’ve argued in other threads. However there are rewards and achievements you can only get from doing Fractals. I argued Fractals were a dungeon because they were including under the dungeon label of achievements. But that’s completely out of context for this article.
I make the same arguments of dungeons like TA Aetherpath. If a dungeon is not rewarding enough, even if it’s challenging, people won’t do it.
Putting those skins in gets people to run it. That’s one of the things people do it for. Ascended rings are another, but you get those rather fast and end up with too many of them.
By the way you can’t officially veto anything, since you’re not an official. At least not here.
I never EVER said the rewards in the Fractals were good enough. Not once, not ever. The Fractal rewards are pretty bad.
Which doesn’t equate to the rewards being broken “in the game”. It equates to rewards being broken in the Fractals. And even broken is a bad word. I’d use underwhelming.
I think that the entire dungeon reward system needs to be overhauled. I don’t get why you get 1.5 gold from AC Path 3, but 1 Gold from paths in dungeons that take much longer to run.
Okay, so let’s recap.
Let’s pretend it took 4 hours to finish Sorrow’s Embrace instead of 3. And Sorrow’s Embrace was the dungeon. The dungeon was the new area. The quests all led into the dungeon. So saying it’s a new area and a dungeon is quite disingenuous since they’re one and the same thing.
Now, Anet sold Factions which is a whole game onto itself. That game could be finished in a week, even when it came out. People finished it staggeringly fast and people complained about finishing it fast. The DOA came out, the first Guild Wars 2 product that had no Elite area. DOA was added, but in my opinion it was always meant to be in the game. With DOA, Nightfall had really nothing because it didn’t offer any new PvP stuff either, like Factions did. So Anet charged for an entire game with no dungeons, no elite areas, and then added the elite area after launch.
In the mean time, Fractals is a dungeon, which was added to Guild Wars 2. But we didn’t buy a new game either. And Guild Missions (which most people seem to forget about), was something added to Guild Wars 2 including 3 guild puzzles. Not so Secret and Deidre’s Steppes were added. Southsun, the Karka Queen and Triple Thread were added. Tequatl might as well have been added since the new fight is much more involved than the old one. And yes, I’d definitely count the new TA path as added since it’s longer and probably better designed than most of the other dungeons. Fractals wasn’t only added once. We had 9 fractals originally and 5 more fractals were added. Sanctum Sprint, Southsun Survival were added.
There were also a bevy of things I played and experienced that are no longer in game, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t there. Most notably of these was the Nightmare Tower, the Marionette Fight and Escape from LA.
The new zones that were added for free aren’t just new zones. They’re new zones with dynamic events and some of the bosses have unique attack and the AI for the creatures your fight are both better and harder.
I should also say SAB came out too, even though it’s not in the game right now, but I had a couple of months playing around in there.
This isn’t a full expansion worth of content, that’s 100% true. However, not everyone is a dungeon runner or a PvPer and for my money, the stuff I’ve played is better than any of the stuff added to Guild Wars 1.
Sorrow’s embrace was six quests, then, which took you through a dungeon. What it wasn’t was an entire new zone with a couple of dozen quests and new achievements and a new JP with new hard to get goggles.
It was a dungeon, and the quests took you through it.
I don’t quite understand this wall of text here , I’ve just corrected the mistakes you made … you’re welcome. But you’ve made a few this time too. Firstly I take you’re talking about Sorrow’s furnace, not embrace. Secondly, it was a new area AND a dungeon, unless you count GW1 areas as dungeons which would be a fair point.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Grenth%27s_Footprint
but in that case it was two new dungeon. Also you first said it can be completed in two hours, not three.“The DOA came out, the first Guild Wars 2 product that had no Elite area. "
This is where I would like to raise a point. I suppose you meant NF. It did not have an elite area at release, like you said, but you often say something like this: “It’s understandable they don’t work on hard content since such a low percentage of player bothers with it anyway.” If this is true, why did anet feel the need to add an elite area even though they didn’t start with one? Also “Nightfall had really nothing because it didn’t offer any new PvP stuff either” is not true either. Heroes changed the meta for a quite long time and Hero Battle was quite popular .
They added an elite area because they really believed that the health of the game depended on it, like Trion believed that the health of the game depended on raids, like Wildstar wanted to make a hard core game.
There’s no real evidence that hard core players exist in enough numbers to support a triple A MMO. There’s plenty of evidence that causal players exist in those numbers.
My guess is DOA was meant to be included in the release, but NF was released so close to Factions that they didn’t have time to include it, so they added it when it was done.
I have the same feeling about fractals in Guild Wars 2. I don’t believe they programmed Fractals in a couple of months.
They never said SAB wouldn’t be back. So it’s not a lie. They never said when it would be back.
So when they say nothing is off the table, it is meant to be understood as everything is coming, we just don’t want to say when.
To a new player, the fact that SAB has been in game in the past is no different than a new class/race not being in the game now. New player can’t access either. Those who had priviledge of playing SAB in the past can remember how it was, and some unfortune individuals can still stare their infinite continue coin in the bank.
OT: everything indicates strongly that there will not be a “boxed” expansion. Not next year, nor next, nor ever. The medium of delivering content is LS. It has improved from Season 1 – story is still same kitten, but at least content is nearly permanent – but it still has miles and miles to go before it can be said to be a good medium.
First of all, Colin said that SAB will definitely be back. It was said by someone or other that it wouldn’t be back during this season of the Living Story. It’s not a lie no matter how you slice it.
Someone brought it up as an example of a lie. If so, what was the lie?
I’m fairly certain Colin said the opposite of that… do you have a link?
The whole expansion argument is identical to the people who believe in big foot. You have one set of people who say that there is nothing to indicate that big foot is real, the past has shown that he probably isn’t real, and you just need to accept that. The other side is saying, you can’t prove that big foot isn’t real, and as technology gets better we will eventually see big foot “sometime” in the future. They pretend to be rational by saying things like “well one of us will be proven right eventually”. Well obviously… but only one of those positions is rational.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Super-Adventure-Box-merged-1/page/14#post4456748
Edit: By the way comparing believing that expansion content is coming and believing in big foot is not really the same thing. Even trying to compare that is disingenuous.
Thanks for the link, I missed that post.
I literally just took the arguments I’ve seen in this thread and replaced the word expansion with big foot. People keep asking to prove that there is no expansion coming. You simply can’t prove something that doesn’t exist.
Except that in two years if no expansion arrives, those of us who believe in it were wrong. In my mind anyway. I believe we’ll see an expansion annoucment the beginning of next year. At the very least, I believe we will see new professions, skills and possibly a race next year.
I’m surprised that Eve is winning in every single category it’s in.
I’m not. I’m sure it’s become a community project for them. They love stuff like this.
You’re a riot. I’ve said this before. Do you realize how much I play? No matter how good a game is, you can’t play it 24 hours a day. It’s not reasonable.
My guild is on US times and I’m in Australia. I almost never post during the day when they’re on. When they go to sleep, I’ve usually been playing anywhere between four hours and eight. That’s a LOT of time to play a game daily no matter what the game. And I do prefer to play with my guild.
At night sometimes, I’ll level a lowbie to relax or farm some mats in low level areas, but I take frequent breaks to come to the forums to respond to posts, because being part of the community is part of my game.
However, I can promise you, I didn’t get 21,414 achievement points by sitting on the forums. And you know, there’s plenty of downtime to peruse the forums. I can look at forums while I’m on mumble, waiting for a group of people to do a dungeon that aren’t quite ready. Or before guild missions while we’re gathering. You make it sound like I spend hours on the forums every day. In fact, I’m only actually posting for an hour or two a day. The rest of the time, I’m doing other stuff.
Edit: As an example today I finished the last three achievements I needed for Twilight Abor Aetherpath and got my mini clockheart. If you want to meet up in game I can show it to you for proof lol).
That’s fine, i’m not trying to accuse you of anything. I know i spend far more time on these forums than playing, as well as any other games forums for that matter. I actually don’t even think i’ve ever really used any other games forums at all, i’m usually just playing the game. I guess it’s just surprising how many posts you answer in comparison to me, who spends more time here than in game.
Sure but I answer them in my evening, when the guild is sound asleep and no one (or hardly anyone) is online. Tons of hours in a day if you’re retired.
If I had a silver for every time Vayne mentioned his guild and the people in it as a “healthy” example of the player base.
@Vanive- I do realize that only a few people do post on the forums but there are solutions that are clearly better than the current system and wouldn’t alienate the player base.
See for example the over-suggested idea that FOTM skins should be obtainable through a token system.
How would that be bad?You might have 20 silver. Whee! lol
If FoTM skins were attainable through a token system, a lot of people would get their skins and never do fractals again. I really believe this is true.
You’d end up making it harder and harder to find people running fractals, because dungeons are faster/more money.
You’d have to redesign fractals to give them a new reason to enter them by upping the rewards, and that’s a whole different can of worms.
You do realize that a lot of people don’t get their weapon and never do fractals again.
Or that they decided to never do it after they get their third weapon of the same kind and not the one they want.They used a token system in Dungeons. Why? Because it’s better and it works.
Else why not use RNG based rewards there too?No matter how you look at it FOTM rewards are just broken. Up till a month ago you had a higher chance to get a skin in lower than 50 FOTM runs ( 30-39).
People who run fractals don’t do it for the skins – they do it because they like FOTM. The chances of a skin are so low you shouldn’t even bother to hope you’re going to get it. Research into it – you’ll find it to be true.
I farmed FOTM for 8 months or more to get my skin – I still do FOTM now – but there are many that won’t even touch it because they know the RNG is so bad it’s not worth it.
There are also many that gave up along the way because it’s too much of a grind.
They used a token system in dungeons because there are 8 of them or 28 explorable paths. There’s one fractals.
And dungeons are fast enough to run for profit…fractals not so much. People FARM dungeons. Most people don’t farm fractals.
They never said SAB wouldn’t be back. So it’s not a lie. They never said when it would be back.
So when they say nothing is off the table, it is meant to be understood as everything is coming, we just don’t want to say when.
To a new player, the fact that SAB has been in game in the past is no different than a new class/race not being in the game now. New player can’t access either. Those who had priviledge of playing SAB in the past can remember how it was, and some unfortune individuals can still stare their infinite continue coin in the bank.
OT: everything indicates strongly that there will not be a “boxed” expansion. Not next year, nor next, nor ever. The medium of delivering content is LS. It has improved from Season 1 – story is still same kitten, but at least content is nearly permanent – but it still has miles and miles to go before it can be said to be a good medium.
First of all, Colin said that SAB will definitely be back. It was said by someone or other that it wouldn’t be back during this season of the Living Story. It’s not a lie no matter how you slice it.
Someone brought it up as an example of a lie. If so, what was the lie?
I’m fairly certain Colin said the opposite of that… do you have a link?
The whole expansion argument is identical to the people who believe in big foot. You have one set of people who say that there is nothing to indicate that big foot is real, the past has shown that he probably isn’t real, and you just need to accept that. The other side is saying, you can’t prove that big foot isn’t real, and as technology gets better we will eventually see big foot “sometime” in the future. They pretend to be rational by saying things like “well one of us will be proven right eventually”. Well obviously… but only one of those positions is rational.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Super-Adventure-Box-merged-1/page/14#post4456748
Edit: By the way comparing believing that expansion content is coming and believing in big foot is not really the same thing. Even trying to compare that is disingenuous.
I do think an MMO’s start can be indicative of its success, or rather lack thereof. A bad start can kill an MMO. This is especially true in the WoW emulation era. Many MMO’s have launched with grand expectations and fallen flat on their faces. Some have salvaged a fraction of their aspirations with a revamp and/or Freemium conversion. AoC and SWtOR come to mind. While each is a relative success after conversion, they will never reach the heights their publishers aspired to originally.
Not really the start I was talking about though. It’s like Rift. As much as I don’t like the rest of the game, at least in the beginning, you were in the middle of a war zone. Stuff was blowing up around you. You were struggling to survive. You were in the moment. It carried me through the entire leveling process.
I liked also the rest of the open world in Rift .. what i don’t liked was that it was in the
end again all again just dungeons / raids if you wanted to have better stuff.
These massive zone events there were really fun for me ..
See I liked it to a point, until I completely maxed out my planarite and couldn’t gain any more. That was the issue for me. Imagine doing events and not accumulating any more karma because you’d hit the cap. That was infurating.
Not that there was anything useful to spend planarite on anyway.
They never said SAB wouldn’t be back. So it’s not a lie. They never said when it would be back.
So when they say nothing is off the table, it is meant to be understood as everything is coming, we just don’t want to say when.
To a new player, the fact that SAB has been in game in the past is no different than a new class/race not being in the game now. New player can’t access either. Those who had priviledge of playing SAB in the past can remember how it was, and some unfortune individuals can still stare their infinite continue coin in the bank.
OT: everything indicates strongly that there will not be a “boxed” expansion. Not next year, nor next, nor ever. The medium of delivering content is LS. It has improved from Season 1 – story is still same kitten, but at least content is nearly permanent – but it still has miles and miles to go before it can be said to be a good medium.
First of all, Colin said that SAB will definitely be back. It was said by someone or other that it wouldn’t be back during this season of the Living Story. It’s not a lie no matter how you slice it.
Someone brought it up as an example of a lie. If so, what was the lie?
Okay, so let’s recap.
Let’s pretend it took 4 hours to finish Sorrow’s Embrace instead of 3. And Sorrow’s Embrace was the dungeon. The dungeon was the new area. The quests all led into the dungeon. So saying it’s a new area and a dungeon is quite disingenuous since they’re one and the same thing.
Now, Anet sold Factions which is a whole game onto itself. That game could be finished in a week, even when it came out. People finished it staggeringly fast and people complained about finishing it fast. The DOA came out, the first Guild Wars 2 product that had no Elite area. DOA was added, but in my opinion it was always meant to be in the game. With DOA, Nightfall had really nothing because it didn’t offer any new PvP stuff either, like Factions did. So Anet charged for an entire game with no dungeons, no elite areas, and then added the elite area after launch.
In the mean time, Fractals is a dungeon, which was added to Guild Wars 2. But we didn’t buy a new game either. And Guild Missions (which most people seem to forget about), was something added to Guild Wars 2 including 3 guild puzzles. Not so Secret and Deidre’s Steppes were added. Southsun, the Karka Queen and Triple Thread were added. Tequatl might as well have been added since the new fight is much more involved than the old one. And yes, I’d definitely count the new TA path as added since it’s longer and probably better designed than most of the other dungeons. Fractals wasn’t only added once. We had 9 fractals originally and 5 more fractals were added. Sanctum Sprint, Southsun Survival were added.
There were also a bevy of things I played and experienced that are no longer in game, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t there. Most notably of these was the Nightmare Tower, the Marionette Fight and Escape from LA.
The new zones that were added for free aren’t just new zones. They’re new zones with dynamic events and some of the bosses have unique attack and the AI for the creatures your fight are both better and harder.
I should also say SAB came out too, even though it’s not in the game right now, but I had a couple of months playing around in there.
This isn’t a full expansion worth of content, that’s 100% true. However, not everyone is a dungeon runner or a PvPer and for my money, the stuff I’ve played is better than any of the stuff added to Guild Wars 1.
Sorrow’s embrace was six quests, then, which took you through a dungeon. What it wasn’t was an entire new zone with a couple of dozen quests and new achievements and a new JP with new hard to get goggles.
It was a dungeon, and the quests took you through it.
The big difference for me is back then they built a game they wanted to play, and for better or worse, many people enjoyed it for 7 years. It didn’t feel like they broke the game while starring at metrics and spreadsheets at any given point either.
Most regular long term players i know personally, play for WvW anymore and find LS lackluster. I literally log in for the story releases and i have a good deal invested in the game. Basically this game just isn’t as fun/challenging/rewarding as the original. Unfortunately, that’s not just my opinion either.
As an observation, you Vayne, seem to play forum wars 2 just as much as the game itself (maybe more). If i was as enticed to play as you seem to be, i wouldn’t be here posting nearly as much, i’d be playing.
You’re a riot. I’ve said this before. Do you realize how much I play? No matter how good a game is, you can’t play it 24 hours a day. It’s not reasonable.
My guild is on US times and I’m in Australia. I almost never post during the day when they’re on. When they go to sleep, I’ve usually been playing anywhere between four hours and eight. That’s a LOT of time to play a game daily no matter what the game. And I do prefer to play with my guild.
At night sometimes, I’ll level a lowbie to relax or farm some mats in low level areas, but I take frequent breaks to come to the forums to respond to posts, because being part of the community is part of my game.
However, I can promise you, I didn’t get 21,414 achievement points by sitting on the forums. And you know, there’s plenty of downtime to peruse the forums. I can look at forums while I’m on mumble, waiting for a group of people to do a dungeon that aren’t quite ready. Or before guild missions while we’re gathering. You make it sound like I spend hours on the forums every day. In fact, I’m only actually posting for an hour or two a day. The rest of the time, I’m doing other stuff.
Edit: As an example today I finished the last three achievements I needed for Twilight Abor Aetherpath and got my mini clockheart. If you want to meet up in game I can show it to you for proof lol).
I do think an MMO’s start can be indicative of its success, or rather lack thereof. A bad start can kill an MMO. This is especially true in the WoW emulation era. Many MMO’s have launched with grand expectations and fallen flat on their faces. Some have salvaged a fraction of their aspirations with a revamp and/or Freemium conversion. AoC and SWtOR come to mind. While each is a relative success after conversion, they will never reach the heights their publishers aspired to originally.
Not really the start I was talking about though. It’s like Rift. As much as I don’t like the rest of the game, at least in the beginning, you were in the middle of a war zone. Stuff was blowing up around you. You were struggling to survive. You were in the moment. It carried me through the entire leveling process.
Voted World Of Warcraft even though I’ve never played it.
There must be a reason why it’s still going even after 10 years, they must be doing something right even with all the complaints you here on GW2 forums.
I don’t see GW2 lasting that long.
McDonalds is going for a long time too. It must be the best restaurant. lol
People don’t read books that start badly…not often. They put the book down. People don’t watch movies that are boring for the first half hour. That’s not just my opinion. Most people don’t.
Most MMOs are slow to begin with because that’s when you have the least things to play around with. That’s not just my opinion. That’s something anybody who’s played multiple MMOs can tell you. If people didn’t buy a game that started off slow, then WoW wouldn’t have become successful.
GW2, unfortunately, doesn’t give you a whole heck of a lot to play with, keeps it slow the entire time thanks to the NPE and trait changes, and then bottoms out into no end game short of doing random events in random places and a slow, uninspired story.
I don’t have to justify my choice to you or anyone else.
Well you’re certainly trying. And failing because you’re relying on lies, but trying nonetheless.
First I’m not failing because I’m not trying.
Second an MMO can start out slow and still be interesting. AoC did it. Rift did it. Even Guild Wars 2 still does it. It’s not an excuse to suck.
If we go back through Anet’s track record their honesty is pretty spotty:
- Precursor crafting
- Super Adventure Box returning
- Listening to player feedback
- “All the things you love from Guild Wars 1” … (Would that include expansions?)If this is all you can bring up for spotty honesty then Anet is more honest than most companies. It’s been 2 years and literally thousands of things have been said. Less than a dozen don’t ring true. One of the things you quoted was said ONCE, 2 years before the game launched. Good memory.
They never said SAB wouldn’t be back. So it’s not a lie. They never said when it would be back.
They’ve have listened to player feedback. Maybe not yours. The question is did they ever say they would do everything players asked for?
Actually they did mention after launch that they had plans to release precursor crafting “by the end of the year” as well as other things such as “new types of legendaries.” And “by the end of the year” meant the end of last year. I believe it was in their big blog post about how far GW2 had come since launch.
I know and they later said that it had to be pushed back. Saying something and saying it has to be pushed back is not dishonesty.
If we go back through Anet’s track record their honesty is pretty spotty:
- Precursor crafting
- Super Adventure Box returning
- Listening to player feedback
- “All the things you love from Guild Wars 1” … (Would that include expansions?)
If this is all you can bring up for spotty honesty then Anet is more honest than most companies. It’s been 2 years and literally thousands of things have been said. Less than a dozen don’t ring true. One of the things you quoted was said ONCE, 2 years before the game launched. Good memory.
They never said SAB wouldn’t be back. So it’s not a lie. They never said when it would be back.
They’ve have listened to player feedback. Maybe not yours. The question is did they ever say they would do everything players asked for?
Yes the NEW version of the game has been out for 2 years.
ARR has been out for 1 year.
The rest is just you asserting your own opinions and assumptions without any evidence, probably out of blind devotion to Anet or maybe a last ditch effort to justify your game choice. I don’t need to argue it, because you need to provide evidence of your assertions before it’s worth saying anything.
Also, your numbers are wrong.
Edit: Although your “Any game is only as good as how it opens” line really tells a lot about you. Namely that you don’t know how the MMO genre works. A game that opens with high numbers and then falls to pieces was not successful.
People don’t read books that start badly…not often. They put the book down. People don’t watch movies that are boring for the first half hour. That’s not just my opinion. Most people don’t.
If you don’t find the opening of that game boring as hell, I don’t know what to say.
I don’t have to justify my choice to you or anyone else. I like TSW and I like EvE online. I think Final Fantasy XIV has a bad start.
I wonder if people would have claimed how meaningless it was if GW2 was not in the lead.
Yep. I always point out that internet polls (and internet petitions) are meaningless.
Vote goes to FF14.
I like developers that respect their customers.Yes, like the first game they put out had to be completely revamped because it sucked so bad. It’s so funny how people forget stuff.
Which is both irrelevant to the new version and irrelevant to what Mavis said.
If anything, it makes SE look even better because they respected their customers enough to go “Hey, y’know what? We screwed up. Give us another chance to make it right.”
Unlike some people who will screw up, get a bunch of complaints, tell them they’ll get back to them about it on Monday, and then not say a thing for 2 months.
I would say that ANet devs are respectful to their customers.
See the above-mentioned example.
It’s not respectful at all to tell your customers you’ll give them a response and then just try to shove it aside and hope it goes away.
When I started it only recently, the server seemed quite underpopulated. At one point I died and waited for someone to come by for a rez, just to see how long it would take. Eventually I gave up after about half an hour.
This is what you base your opinion on the size of their player base on? On whether or not somebody revived you on a single map on a single server? Which is probably a starter map that people obviously were less likely to be on?
Whether I believe this even happened or not, I also highly doubt you asked in chat for a revive, which means that you’d be literally just sitting there waiting for someone to happen to come across you, and not only somebody, but one of the classes with (or someone who took) a revive.
To counter your example, yesterday I died while doing a map. Within a minute, somebody had randomly come across me and revived me.
If Gw2 and FF14 population size is nearly to 1:1 ratio, then I wonder which one is “crap”.
GW2’s been out for 2 years.
A Realm Reborn has been out for 1.Clearly the crap one would be the one that’s had more time to gather customers but hasn’t.
No?
LMAO! Yes the NEW version of the game has been out for 2 years. I don’t know why you think most people or anyone playing it didn’t buy their accounts before that. The thing is that was 1.8 million accounts created total. But that doesn’t say 1.8 million sales. That’s the funny bit. Everyone who downloads the free trial is an account created. Wonder why they phrased it that way.
Guild Wars 2 had more sales than that pre-launch. Not when it was out for two years after having to completely rebuild itself because the game was so bad as to be virtually unplayable. So this is how you think a company respects it’s players.
Launch a really really bad game. A year later relaunch a better game. Charge a monthly fee for it. And even after an entire year of it being out it still doesn’t have the same number of sales Guild Wars 2 had before it launched.
I’m sure there are people who like Final Fantasy and think it’s a fantastic game. There are people who like Pizza Hut too and think it’s fine dining.
Any game is only as good as how it opens. People on these forums are complaining about stuff like the NPE and how fast you get skills. And how boring it is.
We should send them all to Final Fantasy. The complaints would stop.
Sorrow’s embrace is not worth more than the entire Living Story and anyone who says so doesn’t remember it. It was four big quest chains and yes, they were good, but… that’s what they were. Four big quest chains.
And that’s most of what Anet gave away for free, until Guild Wars 2 was announced and they started the War in Kryta many years later.
Sorrow’s Embrace I could do a couple of times and it was nice….but Drytop and Silverwastes are free zones (and so is Southsun).
Stuff like Triple Threat, the Karka Queen, The New Jumping Puzzles are all free too. SAB was free. I’m not sure everyone would agree Sorrow’s Embrace was better than SAB even if it’s not in game now.
Picking the one example of content Anet gave for free until it stopped selling new content for Guild Wars 1 is just a bit disingenuous.
Edit: And you could probably finish Sorrow’s Embrace in 2 hours.
There is so much misinformation here…. firstly , SF update wasn’t just four big quests, there was a new area + outpost with a dungeon and not only four quests. 2 Main and 4 “sidequest”. The first is to help four dwarfs and the second is to defeat the forgeman. Also people played this new dungeon not for the sake of completing quests, but to get the new unique items. Also that 2 hour doesn’t sound right to me either, I challenge you to try and complete it in two hours using only what was available that time. (No heroes, only proph skills).
Secondly SF wasn’t the only thing anet added before the release of EN for free. Tomb of primeval kings (PvE) , DoA wasn’t available at release of NF either if my memory is correct, introduction of HM etc.
Okay, so let’s recap.
Let’s pretend it took 4 hours to finish Sorrow’s Embrace instead of 3. And Sorrow’s Embrace was the dungeon. The dungeon was the new area. The quests all led into the dungeon. So saying it’s a new area and a dungeon is quite disingenuous since they’re one and the same thing.
Now, Anet sold Factions which is a whole game onto itself. That game could be finished in a week, even when it came out. People finished it staggeringly fast and people complained about finishing it fast. The DOA came out, the first Guild Wars 2 product that had no Elite area. DOA was added, but in my opinion it was always meant to be in the game. With DOA, Nightfall had really nothing because it didn’t offer any new PvP stuff either, like Factions did. So Anet charged for an entire game with no dungeons, no elite areas, and then added the elite area after launch.
In the mean time, Fractals is a dungeon, which was added to Guild Wars 2. But we didn’t buy a new game either. And Guild Missions (which most people seem to forget about), was something added to Guild Wars 2 including 3 guild puzzles. Not so Secret and Deidre’s Steppes were added. Southsun, the Karka Queen and Triple Thread were added. Tequatl might as well have been added since the new fight is much more involved than the old one. And yes, I’d definitely count the new TA path as added since it’s longer and probably better designed than most of the other dungeons. Fractals wasn’t only added once. We had 9 fractals originally and 5 more fractals were added. Sanctum Sprint, Southsun Survival were added.
There were also a bevy of things I played and experienced that are no longer in game, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t there. Most notably of these was the Nightmare Tower, the Marionette Fight and Escape from LA.
The new zones that were added for free aren’t just new zones. They’re new zones with dynamic events and some of the bosses have unique attack and the AI for the creatures your fight are both better and harder.
I should also say SAB came out too, even though it’s not in the game right now, but I had a couple of months playing around in there.
This isn’t a full expansion worth of content, that’s 100% true. However, not everyone is a dungeon runner or a PvPer and for my money, the stuff I’ve played is better than any of the stuff added to Guild Wars 1.
Sorrow’s embrace was six quests, then, which took you through a dungeon. What it wasn’t was an entire new zone with a couple of dozen quests and new achievements and a new JP with new hard to get goggles.
It was a dungeon, and the quests took you through it.
I wouldn’t mind if Eve won. It’s a great game. It’s not a great game for me…but it’s a great game.
If FoTM skins were attainable through a token system, a lot of people would get their skins and never do fractals again. I really believe this is true.
The opposite is also true. With RNG that could take years of daily attempts, I’m simply not going to bother in the first place. There are plenty of other ways ArenaNet could encourage people to play. Forced RNG only leads to burnout.
Then the question becomes which is more effective.
So, what’s your point here Vayne?
You think game designers should create content locked behind RNG that causes player burnout rather than creating content that is rewarded properly so that players want to play it more? Every other dungeon in the game allows you to buy skins with tokens, why not fractals?
I don’t see how burning players out of any aspect of the game is a good idea.
My point is there are no easy answers. That’s my point. Everything seems good on paper. Make champions more rewarding, gave birth to the Queen’s deal champ train, which caused quite a few people problems.
Every change that seems easy and reasonable may very well have other consequences. That’s my point. People who program for a living probably know better, which is why so many “good” suggestions aren’t leapt upon.
If that’s what happened, I’d contact support. No reason for you to be out those gems.
I think she’s saying that lore shouldn’t be told to players…they should get it organically through play.
If FoTM skins were attainable through a token system, a lot of people would get their skins and never do fractals again. I really believe this is true.
The opposite is also true. With RNG that could take years of daily attempts, I’m simply not going to bother in the first place. There are plenty of other ways ArenaNet could encourage people to play. Forced RNG only leads to burnout.
Then the question becomes which is more effective.
If I had a silver for every time Vayne mentioned his guild and the people in it as a “healthy” example of the player base.
@Vanive- I do realize that only a few people do post on the forums but there are solutions that are clearly better than the current system and wouldn’t alienate the player base.
See for example the over-suggested idea that FOTM skins should be obtainable through a token system.
How would that be bad?
You might have 20 silver. Whee! lol
If FoTM skins were attainable through a token system, a lot of people would get their skins and never do fractals again. I really believe this is true.
You’d end up making it harder and harder to find people running fractals, because dungeons are faster/more money.
You’d have to redesign fractals to give them a new reason to enter them by upping the rewards, and that’s a whole different can of worms.
That’s a lot of processor power I think, though I’d love a hard mode vanquish instance. I just don’t see it happening.
You’re taking something literally that I in no way see is literal. There’s a difference between a scene and a lore dump. It’s like in the old days of scifi when writers would write stuff like.
“Of course you know, the ray gun works by means of channeling and magnifying energy and then forcing it into a dedicated stream.”
You don’t really need to know how a ray gun works for a ray gun to be used in scifi. You just have to point it and watch a beam of light come out of it and destroy something.
One is a lore dump the other is a scene.
In my opinion, the trait system change is by far the worst thing Anet has done to the game. It has limited my enjoyment of the game, but I still play because I enjoy things other than leveling new toons.
But that one thing I used to enjoy most, that’s not here anymore.
Most people know me as a support of Anet but this is one change that I’m having a tough time swallowing.
1. There are a lot of little changes, but the major changes are that rank points are now account bound and each character can be set up differently. Commander tags are now color coded and account bound. Tons of little changes too, including traps that shut down siege.
2. Crafting is a gold sink but if you want to craft Ascended gear, you pretty much need to do it. At least the weapons if not the armor are probably worth it. There are plenty of guides to crafting on the net.
3. Daily quests reward you with both achievement points and laurels. Laurels can be used to purchase ascended trinkets. Guild missions are really good for this too. Guild missions are the cheapest way to get ascended earrings.
4. Fractals are a specific type of dungeon. You’ll make more money running fast regular dungeons, but if you run fractals you’ll eventually have ascended rings for your character without paying for them.
If people want to get hyped up, they will get hyped up… honestly, it’s probably better for the playerbase to believe that an expansion is on its way eventually than for them to think that no expansion will ever happen.
That’s only true if the expansion will eventually come, and if it will happen within a reasonable frametime (and not, for example, 5 years from now). Playerbase waiting for the things that won’t come is good only for Anet. Not for players.
It has been officially said that expansion type content is on the work, hasn’kitten
Well, yeah. At the beginning of 2013. And we were to get it through that year’s Living Story content.
Hope you liked it.They’ve been expanding the game almost monthly. Why do you need a big dropship dump of an expansion all at once just because it’s how people have done it before?
Because there are things that simply can’t be done piecemeal. And others that would suffer degradation of quality.
If they can’t introduce more than one zone at a time (and need several months at least between such introductions), then things like Cantha or Elona are simply not possible for them to make. Trying to do that one piece at a time would not only take ages, but also result in something that would be just a collection of individual pieces, not a single bigger whole.
Each part of Drytop was was introduced separately but they work together as a single piece. Any design can work like that if that’s your intent.
I can’t see anything preventing Anet from releasing Elona one map at a time.
Let’s say it takes them a year to release the entire map. That’s how long WoW players waited for an expansion with no new content at all.
You’re trying to convince me because you don’t like the game the game is somehow in trouble. I’d almost wager at this point that Guild Wars 2 is still the second more successful MMORPG next to WoW, which no one has come close to.
lmao
WoW has 10 million players, son, GW2 isn’t and will never be anywhere near WoW and if FF14 is doing better than GW2 in terms of players and money, then chances are GW2 doesn’t have more than 200,000/100,000 players. No small amount, but like I said ArenaNet isn’t exactly rolling in cash, otherwise they wouldn’t be so cautious with their communication policy.
But hey, whatever, we can dismiss any argument with “lol opinions”, because discussion if for losers, right?
Yes, NO ONE can compare with WoW. That’s why I said it’s the second or #2 MMO.
Do you see ANY other MMO comparing with WoW in money? It’s an older game, based on a popular franchise, with a lot of money behind it for advertising. In the early days they made enough money to keep the machine rolling. And that doesn’t contradict ANYTHING I said. You just read it wrong.
If WoW is the #1 MMORPG right now and no one is ANYWHERE NEAR IT, you take it out of the equation, because no one has ever been anywhere near it in eight years and people keep trying.
Of ALL THE OTHER MMOS THAT HAVE COME OUT AFTER WOW, I’m thinking Guild Wars is near the very top. Probably number 2 to WoW itself.
I hope that clarifies it for you.
I don’t know how you got that from what she said.
Just looked it up. As of February this year 1.8 million people have created accounts on FFXIV. I’m sure not everyone that’s started that game is still there. When I started it only recently, the server seemed quite underpopulated. At one point I died and waited for someone to come by for a rez, just to see how long it would take. Eventually I gave up after about half an hour.
So people touting this game as some great thing don’t even really know if it has as many players as Guild Wars 2. Of course if there are a million players still playing that’s still 15 million dollars a month income. That’s a fact. I don’t think there are likely a million people still playing but it’s possible. Subscription games do have more income.
However I’m not sure those updates aren’t far easier to create being how primitive the system actually is (and it is primitive).
If I wanted to go backwards, I could go play AoC.
As for NcSoft taking all the money and giving Anet an allowance, I’m pretty sure that’s now how businesses owned by other businesses work.
You really are adamant about defending GW2, huh.
I’m getting tired of this game, in which you always fail to address my argument and I have to state it once again.
Just so you know, having mega-servers isn’t a sign of a bustling player population, it’s a fancy word for server merges aka one nail on the coffin.
FF14 has more players, it’s a fact, whether you joined a low pop server isn’t my issue.
Also, GW2’s combat isn’t exactly the innovation of the decade, it’s still a tab-targetting MMO with a dodge mechanic, that’s it, really. FF14’s gameplay isn’t primitive but rather a more traditional approach. However, gameplay being “primitive” has no bearing in the quality or quantity of the updates, WoW’s gameplay set the standard for many MMOs and it doesn’t get updates that often.I think at this point you’re just refusing to acknowledge the fact that ArenaNet hasn’t provided the best service, in comparison to its competition. If so, I’d rather not continue this, since it’s obvious you’re biased.
I think you’re refusing to acknowledge the fact that how any individual feels about a game is pure opinion and not everyone shares mine and not everyone shares yours. One of us is being reasonable.
You’re trying to convince me because you don’t like the game the game is somehow in trouble. I’d almost wager at this point that Guild Wars 2 is still the second more successful MMORPG next to WoW, which no one has come close to.
Every single time a new MMO comes out, people are on the forums saying how much Anet has to be worried. Well, so far that hasn’t really been the case. Maybe it will be with the next game, or the next, or the next.
All I’ve ever said is this game is doing fine, with or without people who don’t like it. That’s all. And since it’s making a reasonable amount of money and people haven’t been laid off, I’d say the odds are I’m probably correct in saying this.
Does this game have issues. Oh hell yes. I’m particularly annoyed at the new trait system and the mangling of the end of the personal story. Those are both problems.
But you not liking the game, or any individual not liking it. That happens all the time in all sorts of games.
I wonder how many people who left this game to play Archeage have already come back.
200 people in my guild, about 100 regulars and I think three of us post here, and only me regularly. Most of us are relatively happy.
Just keep in mind there are some options and seeing certain stories don’t mean you’ll see all of them, even if you make three humans.
if you replay S2 from start to when it finally finishes and if we ever get to be able to replay S1 that is an expansion pack worth of content
No.. Not at all. Remember when ANet actually handed out large chunks of content for free? Remember the Sorrow’s Furnace update from GW1, that alone was worth more content than an entire Living Story season in GW2.
And don’t even try to compare the Living Story to one of the real expansions… Living Story is a failed experiment but ANet loves to hang onto stupid stuff because it’s oh so innovative and new, instead of accepting how it drives away their playerbase.Inb4 “don’t speak for me bla bla”.
Sorrow’s embrace is not worth more than the entire Living Story and anyone who says so doesn’t remember it. It was four big quest chains and yes, they were good, but… that’s what they were. Four big quest chains.
And that’s most of what Anet gave away for free, until Guild Wars 2 was announced and they started the War in Kryta many years later.
Sorrow’s Embrace I could do a couple of times and it was nice….but Drytop and Silverwastes are free zones (and so is Southsun).
Stuff like Triple Threat, the Karka Queen, The New Jumping Puzzles are all free too. SAB was free. I’m not sure everyone would agree Sorrow’s Embrace was better than SAB even if it’s not in game now.
Picking the one example of content Anet gave for free until it stopped selling new content for Guild Wars 1 is just a bit disingenuous.
Edit: And you could probably finish Sorrow’s Embrace in 2 hours.
Interesting post that illustrates many of the problems I’ve talked about personally.
Point 1. Not everyone that disagrees with a complaint is wrong.
Point 2. Not everything that one person or even many people see as a good solution necessarily is one.
Point 3. There are many negative posts a day that get no “fan boy” interference. There are certain posts that almost always do.
But part of the problem comes from an adversarial environment. If people don’t agree with those suggesting changes they become “mindless” fan boys. If people want changes to the game they become haters. The problem exists on both sides of the divide.
There’s plenty of rude behavior on both sides. Those who want certain changes think those changes are better for the game. Those who don’t want certain changes, however, many think it’s better for the game not to have them.
Just because someone proposes a solution doesn’t mean it’s going to be universally loved or accepted, even if you personally think it’s a good solution. It doesn’t work that way.
People make comments and people respond. We’re all giving feedback. You may not like my feedback and I might not like yours but we all have the right to leave it.
It would be nice if people weren’t quite as antagonistic in their attacks, but what can you do. It’s the Internet.
Skippable cutscenes would be the best solution.
Just looked it up. As of February this year 1.8 million people have created accounts on FFXIV. I’m sure not everyone that’s started that game is still there. When I started it only recently, the server seemed quite underpopulated. At one point I died and waited for someone to come by for a rez, just to see how long it would take. Eventually I gave up after about half an hour.
So people touting this game as some great thing don’t even really know if it has as many players as Guild Wars 2. Of course if there are a million players still playing that’s still 15 million dollars a month income. That’s a fact. I don’t think there are likely a million people still playing but it’s possible. Subscription games do have more income.
However I’m not sure those updates aren’t far easier to create being how primitive the system actually is (and it is primitive).
If I wanted to go backwards, I could go play AoC.
As for NcSoft taking all the money and giving Anet an allowance, I’m pretty sure that’s now how businesses owned by other businesses work.
He has as much evidence for believing there won’t be as I have for believing their will be. Over time, one of us will be proved right.
Also, way to miss the point. I originally mentioned how FF14’s devs were respectful of their customers, which is true.
So, what does that look like?
I would say that ANet devs are respectful to their customers. To me, that would mean that they respond diplomatically when they respond, and that they make changes to the game based on what people ask for. ANet devs have made a lot of changes to the game in response to things posters asked for. They certainly use diplomatic language when addressing us.
So, since you seem to be implying that ANet is lacking where Square Enix isn’t, how about telling us why? And five times the content? They’ve had four patches since relaunch. A bunch of quests which I would have to buy/sub to actually be able to evaluate, since the patch notes don’t say how involved they are. A few dungeons, a couple or so classes. It might be more than ANet has patched, but five times is nothing but a WKG (Wild Kittened Guess).
My point still stands, they’ve released more content than arenanet, DESPITE a relaunch
And what I meant by respecting their customers is that ArenaNet’s communication policies are a huge insult to players that have invested 2 or more years in this game.
That’s another fact you can’t deny, ArenaNet refuses to communicate and talk about their projects, it’s their policy and they’ve made it clear they’re not interested in dialog.
CDDs or whatever they’re called were a step in the right direction, but we only get those once every 50 years, when a lamb is sacrificed during a full moon and even then, they’re just a nice way of saying “We may or may not ever work on this”.edit: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/special/patchnote_log/
Feel free to take a look. There’s a total of 4 expansion-like content updates.
Sure, they have the console market and at $15 a month, I’m sure they make a ton of money being the only halfway decent MMO out on console. A lot of money, a lot of updates. However…
Since I think the game sucks completely, they can add all the new content in the world. It doesn’t change anything I’ve said in the past.
Vote goes to FF14.
I like developers that respect their customers.Yes, like the first game they put out had to be completely revamped because it sucked so bad. It’s so funny how people forget stuff.
To be honest, Final Fantasy 14 isn’t too bad of an MMO. It starts out painfully slow but it at least plays well. Though a part of me thinks it’s more like a remake of Final Fantasy 11, than a completely different game just from the races alone. And I will at least commend them for actually going back to the drawing board and do it all over again.
It’s one starting area, isn’kitten With boring linear questing that makes me want to kill myself. If you’re interested in raids it’s probably okay, but I’m all about the living world thing and that linear thing just kills it for me.
lmao, are you implying GW2 isn’t linear?
You can go back and forth in dynamic events, that’s it, and the personal story quests are predetermined, your past choices stop mattering once you join and order, and even that becomes irrelevant as well.Also, way to miss the point. I originally mentioned how FF14’s devs were respectful of their customers, which is true. If it makes you want to snuff yourself, be my guest.
You see company policy as disrespectful. That’s just an opinion. I don’t think not talking about upcoming stuff is disrespectful.
I certainly find the fan base far more disrepectful than the devs here.
As for the game itself, I wouldn’t play it if it was free to play and maybe not even if they paid me.
Vote goes to FF14.
I like developers that respect their customers.Yes, like the first game they put out had to be completely revamped because it sucked so bad. It’s so funny how people forget stuff.
To be honest, Final Fantasy 14 isn’t too bad of an MMO. It starts out painfully slow but it at least plays well. Though a part of me thinks it’s more like a remake of Final Fantasy 11, than a completely different game just from the races alone. And I will at least commend them for actually going back to the drawing board and do it all over again.
It’s one starting area, isn’kitten With boring linear questing that makes me want to kill myself. If you’re interested in raids it’s probably okay, but I’m all about the living world thing and that linear thing just kills it for me.
Vote goes to FF14.
I like developers that respect their customers.
Yes, like the first game they put out had to be completely revamped because it sucked so bad. It’s so funny how people forget stuff.
Whether it’s an actual expansion or new races and classes and weapons and skills, I don’t know. But I do believe all that stuff IS being worked on.
I don’t care if it’s an expansion if I get the content.
ArcheAge Best MMO!
I heard everyone was leaving this game to play Archeage. It must be true. I read it on the forums.
I know both my sons stopped playing already and requested refunds. lol
Black Desert will be even better … and Lineage 3 will beat them all .. at least before
Aion 2 … and of course every other asian game with open PvP, since they always
have been the most successful games in the west ^^Not sure you are being Ironic or not.
Cause most Open world pvp games do not work well in the west.
There are way too many grievers in the west compare to the east ,
not sure if it’s the cultural thing tho.
Most of open world pvp games end up destroying themselves.PS: Archeage has like the most toxic community I have ever seen.
Yes he was being sarcastic.