Guild Wars 2

kitten .9460:

Vayne.8563:

I’d rather play this for 100 years with no new content than a new WoW expansion.

So you like to play dead stagnant games indefinitely, cool, I very much doubt most players think like you (mindless fanboy)

No, I’d rather play content I enjoy than content I don’t. Reading comprehension for the win.

Obviously I’d rather have new content I enjoy. But to like something more than another thing is not being a fan boy. That’s a completely different story. And certainly I’m not mindless.

Put it another way. If you don’t like country music, and there’s no new rock coming out, you listen to the rock you like rather than country music, just because there’s a new song. This is the same thing.

How is having a preference for a certain type of content being a mindless fan boy?

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

I’d rather play this for 100 years with no new content than a new WoW expansion.

And you have every right to feel that way:)
But I think a majority wouldn’t stick to this game so long if no new content came out and all kinds of other MMO’s come with big content patches that introduce new classes, new races, new zones, new story quests etc.

I don’t really know. I haven’t called the majority on the phone to ask them.

But also, it’s not like there’s been no new content, even if the content isn’t necessarily content everyone likes and wants. And we don’t know what we’ll get in the next six months to a year.

Because that’s really the problem…we don’t know.

Illuminati.2431:

kta.6502:

GW2 has its flaws which have been mentioned zillions of times on this forum. I get that. This game is the best non-subscription game on the market. At least you’re not wasting $12 a month on this game!

Have you seen the patch notes for 2.4?
That’s more new content in 1 patch than Guildwars has ever had + everything from next year if they keep going down the same road. I would be so happy if I had to pay GW2 a couple of bucks a month and they would pump out this kind of patches with this kind of content.

Oh and btw, housing is not only for guilds anymore, they introduced personal housing in the latest patch, which added tons of other stuff too.

All the content in the world doesn’t matter if you don’t like the content. WoW has entire expansions that for all I want to play them might as well not exist. I can’t talk about FF, specifically, but from what I know, it’s more or less a traditional MMO. I’m here, as a lot of people are, because they don’t like traditional MMOs.

I’d rather play this for 100 years with no new content than a new WoW expansion.

There’s so much misinformation in this thread, it’s not even funny.

SundayTrash.9562:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Vayne.8563:

SundayTrash.9562:

Created my first character

Why should anyone care? And why are you even posting that here?

To be fair why do you care he has posted it.. its not like its in any way shape or form affecting your own experience.. every game whether MMO or Single Player has its joiners and leavers, but one thing remains constant.. every person has an opinion and like to voice it in their own way.. the OP has put his over, he hasn’t resorted to profanity and he hasn’t gone for the “oh I am so full of sadness” approach either, he just put it out there.
So he created a new character in a new game to show us all he has jumped ship.. big deal, have fun in your new land of coloured pixels… there was that so hard to do Vayne?

yup, just showing I already left GW2

First of all, anyone can create a character in another game and still be playing this game, particularly because there’s no subscription fee.

Secondly, again who cares? Is your leaving this game somehow constructive? Is your making a character in another game somehow constructive?

Purple Miku.7032:

I just wish they’d let me trade my gold for the amount of gems that I want to buy so that I can get the noble outfit without wasting an excessive amount of extra money for no reason.

They are changing it back.

You know you don’t have to participate in the whole event right. You just have to answer do a single emote to get credit.

No matter what’s going on in my life, Christmas always comes on December 25th. Doesn’t matter if there’s a death in the family or a car accident or I got a raise or I fought off muggers. Christmas always comes.

Ever year, Christmas is pretty much the same. Some food. Same traditions. Same stupid family jokes. Every year.

Not sure why you think holiday events would be new every year. That’s said, they could have advanced the storyline. I’m guessing that because it is a story line and because there are probably as many new players as vets right now, they decided to replay it. Just a guess though.

Most games replay holiday events.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Vukorep.3081:

meanwhile players that missed the last years haloween and a bunch of new players that never even heard of it fully enjoy todays content and are not making posts like this one about how “LS” and non permanent content is unfair

I have to guess this is the biggest reason for the repeat. With China now playing, if we include them in the equation. Still, if that’s the case, why didn’t they repeat the first year instead? Too hard to solo?

Maybe it’s just the developers are busy with Living Story.

Hope so.

Maybe you answered your own question. With so many new people they don’t want to continue the story this year. Next year will continue it after people see the beginning.

Only 6k hours. What a slacker!

When people say Xfire’s most popular game means nothing, they’re right. When people say Raptr’s most played games means nothing. they’re right. When they say Overwolf’s most popular games mean nothing, they’re right. Individually they mean nothing. However, one thing these sites have is their own tracking based on their own statistics.

Sure any one of them is going to be biased to the players that play them. But here we have three different sites, not depending on common tracking but their own tracking, each providing relatively similar results.

This is how historians piece together history. It’s how people solve crimes. No two witness statements ever really agree. But if you get enough people basically saying the same thing, you can get some evidence from that…even though it’s not cut and dried evidence.

You start taking into account google trends and reddit figures, and you’ll find a lot of people are still into this game, or at least are still playing it.

You might argue they’re playing it because there’s nothing else better and I’d agree. If there was something better they might be playing that. If there were something better, I might be playing it too. But it doesn’t change anything. It means people are still playing this game. Quite a few people from the looks of it.

It’s easy to say that Raptr statistically means nothing, because it’s correct. But three independent trackers, each tracking their own players (and not each others) are more likely right than wrong.

I can’t imagine how anyone would think otherwise.

juno.1840:

Wow this topic is of no value — other than a soap box for Vayne (not that he needs any more of those, you’d think his feet are getting tired by now).

I think GW2 is doing fine. It’s not nearly as busy as when it launched two years ago. You can argue that’s expected.

So If the point of this thread is to say “GW2 is not dead”, then sure, I agree. However I wouldn’t try and say it’s doing better than it was two years, or even just one year ago.

But again, who cares — it’s not important, other than for kitten satisfaction at who can craft the best argument in a useless topic.

Except that people are saying it’s dying and that it will be dead in a year. No one is arguing it has more people than launch. That’s a fool’s errand.

But since people do seem to be saying the game is actually dying and won’t be here in a year, I think it’s worth pointing out the counterpoint.

How come when people repeatedly say the game is dying or going to die, you don’t say they’re on a soap box. Sounds remarkably like bias to me.

Illuminati.2431:

wasted.6817:

I’am surprised mod haven’t locked this thread yet. It completely derailed since yday.

Since this is a whiteknight thread they won’t lock it so many people can see how great everything is. Threads that say bad things about the game, even though it is well argumented etc. etc. will get locked really quick(I’m pointing at a lot of threads in the past that just said some things about the game they don’t like to hear, but are really facts), or they will just get piled up in a huge merge thread(look at the traits thread).

That’s just the sad reality about mod’s and devs thats going on on these forums.

They haven’t locked it because it’s a weekend, and I’m sure when they come back they will. It happens every weekend it seems.

maha.7902:

Vayne.8563:

Jacobbs.9468:

Vayne.8563:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good Evening,

A couple of things.

1: The next phase of the CDI will be delayed until this weekend or Monday due lack of available time on my part.
2: whilst I am very much looking forward to the raid discussion and chatting with you all about it I do want to make it clear that this last CDI has been excellent, with maturity and collaboration throughout. So to be clear unnecessary comments about ‘True Gamers’, ‘Elitists’ and ‘Dress Up Players’ won’t be tolerated.

I just want to make this clear so we can all have a healthy discussion and design out a Raid System proposal that is born out of GW2’s core mechanics, personality and community passion.

Looking forward to having a great discussion with you all.

Chris

Thanks for this. I really can’t stand people judging other people as “real” gamers, or carebears because they prefer one aspect of games to others. It’s demeaning and unnecessary.

Glad to see it won’t be tolerated in the raiding thread.

I strongly believe that the respect you speak of runs both ways. There are players that want some challenging, instanced raid content, but we just get called elitists and that’s that.

I’m in TTS, and we’ve been called elitists despite our open recruiting policy. We have a few simple rules to abide by: 1) rep when you do world events with us, 2) we ask that you get on TeamSpeak for Triple Trouble because of the nature of the fight (and we always explain everything for those that are joining us who are new – TS makes this much faster and easier) and 3) be nice to people. I don’t see how these rules make us elitist, but haters gunna hate.

Bottom line: the want for challenging content does not automatically mean that we want to exclude people from content in the game.

No one said you did. But elitism is a problem with a certain percentage of people who like hard content, not all people who like hard content. There are people out there who pretty much live to insult and put down other people.

It’s like PvPers. There are a lot of really nice PvPers. I know some of them. But there’s also a very vocal element of PvPers who will trash anyone who enters a match and does something wrong.

Now, it’s far less likely that that will happen with casual players in game. The calls of elitist tend to be a response to people who are telling us how bad we are.

But I don’t believe people who want hard content are elitists and I don’t think casual people can’t play the game.

And because of this miniscule minority of scumbags (for the record, it’s the actual elite in video games who despise the “elitist” tryhard zerk only ping gear cof p1 tryhards) we have this massive brick wall of opposition to raids.

I don’t see why the tryhards upset people so much, it’s actual comical and you should laugh in their face if they’re being kitteny to you because it’s hilarious and sad because actual good players generally don’t care who they party up with since they know they can massively pull their weight if need be and clear the content (if you’ve ever had someone who complained about player X in their group getting them killed I guarantee you there was a decision they could have made at that moment to keep themselves alive, absolutely 100% guarantee it).

Different people have different levels of sensitivity. A guy like me? I don’t care what anyone says. I have to like/respect someone before their opinion actually means something to me.

But people have all sorts of reactions to personal attacks…and there are reasons people have those reactions.

When raiding comes into a game, because it is supposed to be harder and more competitive, it brings out the worst in a percentage of the playerbase…probably a small percentage, but definite a vocal one.

If you’ve experienced personal attacks from that sector, of course you’re not going to want to see it in the game.

Blude.6812:

Meglobob.8620:

From a dev point of view….

Copy/paste from last year…good to go!

+1 and likely what we we will see even though I would really like to see brand new achievements/activities/skins(not gem shop)etc. Nothing recycled from previous years.

I don’t think this is a reasonable request. Something will have to be recycled. For example I really like the Winterwonderland jumping puzzle. I’d hate to see it not in the mix. Taking it out would serve no purpose but to kitten people off.

But new achievements and skins, those would be quite nice.

People complained quite strenuously against taking content out of the game. So if Anet is going to add something, let them add it, but don’t take away the recycled content people have been looking forward to for an entire year.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Why the hell are so many people against having more options when it comes to modifying the ui?

This is why we can’t have nice things.

Nothing is wrong with asking or UI modification. How you ask, though, will influence the response you get.

I don’t really see much wrong with the list the OP created, however, I dislike immensely the way he phrased the question.

I could definitely go for housing and unique bosses, and I wouldn’t mind the solo dungeons.

The skill stuff, however, I’m not so sure it would even be possible to balance what you’re suggesting.

BlueZone.4236:

You mislead people with your Reddit “stats”. That’s a big no, no to anybody who’s a real researcher.
I’m just here to make sure people are informed.
You’re welcome, by the way.

I don’t think people are misled. The game is doing fine. It’s what I came here to say. But thanks for coming by and setting the record straight.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I did a spot check on stats as I’ve done many times. Since this research wasn’t the main thrust of my original post, I didn’t go for that, that’s true. That’s because I was simply responding to a casual post in the middle of a thread. You obviously know nothing about “real researchers”. There’s stuff you research over long periods of time and there’s casual stuff that comes up that you answer quickly. Happens all the time.

But your continued attempts to try to malign me just make you look desperate. Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

Lol, understandable. It’s easier to be sloppy to spread misinformation like you did rather than to do real research and post facts.

I posted lots of facts you’ve completely ignored. Why ignore them?

If the game is doing so badly, why did NcSoft sack a bunch of people from NCsoft west but leave Anet untouched by the layoffs?

Why does the quarterly report still show a profitable game?

These are things you can ignore all you want, but they won’t go away.

None of these had anything to do with you being wrong about the Reddit “stats”.
You can try to put words in my mouth and character assassination, but the fact remains: You were wrong to include Reddit “stats”. Research 101. No need to be so salty, buddy.

What I wrote in the reddit stats was absolutely 100% true at the time I wrote them. I never made any claim except these are the stats at this moment. I didn’t look further, because it’s not the main thrust or even purpose of the thread.

It’s strictly a side issue for me.

I have a bunch of people saying something and I responded to it.

I don’t really CARE about the reddit stats. If 400 plus people are posting on the Guild Wars 2 site even at off hours that only supports what I’ve been saying anyway. It’s not a trivial amount of people.

So yeah, if FF has more posters on than Guild Wars 2 most of the time, that’s fine. Doesn’t change what I’ve said one wit, as I’ve said before.

If you can’t see what the thread is about, that’s okay. It’s about deducing the health of the game from available information.

It doesn’t matter if it’s 2 or 3 or 4. It’s in the ballpark of the most popular MMOs except for WoW. It’s not dying. It’s not in danger of dying (in spite of what people have implied in other threads).

Now unless you’re prepared to say I’m lying about the stats that I checked when I checked them, I’d say we’re done here.

phys.7689:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Scryeless.1924:

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Shhh! Vayne doesn’t tolerate objections. You should know that after reading through his posting history :P

I guess personal attacks are all you can do when you have nothing left to say that’s actually on topic or accurate.

People have been telling you since page one that those numbers are not representative. You chose to ignore it. I told you that the game feels more empty and tried to make the point that even if what you are saying is right, for me and the people I play with the game feels mor empty. You tried to prove a subjective opinion wrong.

That alone shows what kind of person you are Not that anyone who frequents the forums doesn’t already know that.
Instead of attacking anyone who isn’t of your opinion, try a middle ground: You think that the number you give show a trend. Other people don’t. Accept that.

you guys dont get statistics, you dont actually need to take all statistics to find out what the truth is. If you look at a representive sample, you do generally find useful information.
The only one that specifically bothers me, is overwolf, and thats because they entered a partnership with anet, and because they decide activity based on having logged in while using an overwolf app (like teamspeak) within the last month.

Point is, he is right, you dont need to poll everyone at a pretty good idea whats going on. Perfect example is exit polls for elections, which usually give a pretty good idea whats going on (not always perfect but good enough) Quality control also tends to use representive samples.

lets say rapter tracked 10,000 people who randomly use their app, 2000 bought guild wars, later you see 500 people still playing it.
No it doesnt mean GW lost 75% of its population, but it does tell you there was a signifigant drop off. lets say it climbs back up to 2100, it tells you that GW is trending upward.

The only time the info gets messed up, is when for some reason the people they track no longer become a random sampling, lets say rapt bashes anet every day, or the rapt app starts causing gw to crash.

anyhow, i dont agree with everything vayne says, but studying the trends here is not wrong, and likely his statements regarding how comparitively successful is accurate. I would not be surprised if FF is only doing a little better (in pure logins) than gw2, or if archeage is fairly popular right now.

Also, if it were only one place that said this stuff, you’d really have to suspect it, but it’s three and they largely parallel each other.

Guild Wars 2 seems to generally move in the same direction on all of them…up or down. Individually each might be circumspect, but three different sources…that’s good enough for me.

Edgar, I never claimed people don’t leave this game. All I’ve said is that people start playing and people come back to make up for it. It’s a bit of a revolving door. But some people who come back like it better then second time (and obviously some don’t).

As with my of my posts, I’m not trying to convince the people convinced of something. That, I agree with you, is pointless.

I’m counterpointing those posts for people who lurk who may not have seen the other side of the story.

Those are the people I’m targeting. And I’ve had people thank me for it in the past. People do lurk and they need to see both sides of the story.

Then they can make up their own minds.

Just tested it. Your Halloween dailies do indeed count to your 10,000 daily points. I went from 8001 to 8002 by doing the costume brawl.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I did a spot check on stats as I’ve done many times. Since this research wasn’t the main thrust of my original post, I didn’t go for that, that’s true. That’s because I was simply responding to a casual post in the middle of a thread. You obviously know nothing about “real researchers”. There’s stuff you research over long periods of time and there’s casual stuff that comes up that you answer quickly. Happens all the time.

But your continued attempts to try to malign me just make you look desperate. Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

Lol, understandable. It’s easier to be sloppy to spread misinformation like you did rather than to do real research and post facts.

I posted lots of facts you’ve completely ignored. Why ignore them?

If the game is doing so badly, why did NcSoft sack a bunch of people from NCsoft west but leave Anet untouched by the layoffs?

Why does the quarterly report still show a profitable game?

These are things you can ignore all you want, but they won’t go away.

@Crovax.7854

I have a lot of experience you don’t have, such as personal mails from people who don’t post in threads. There are plenty of people on these forums who support me, who don’t want to expose themselves to the types of attacks I get. And that’s okay. They don’t have to.

Now you did call me a white knight, but if I’m not saying the game is great, maybe I’m not the white knight you think I am. I’m pointing out that there’s no real credible source to say the game is doing badly not even from the quarterly report or the fact that NCsoft laid off a bunch of people from the West but didn’t touch Anet. That’s fact.

That you think there’s something white knightish about believing something simple and logical shows that you’ve already judged the argument without looking.

There’s enough minor evidence here to make a major point.

As for proving people wrong…I actually say people are wrong very rarely. But then, I made the post here and people are saying I’m wrong…and you think I should just accept it. So noted.

BlueZone.4236:

A real researcher would have gotten the real Reddit stats…
Reminds me of a time when a researcher said that Michael Morhaime said WoW was bleeding…lol.

I did a spot check on stats as I’ve done many times. Since this research wasn’t the main thrust of my original post, I didn’t go for that, that’s true. That’s because I was simply responding to a casual post in the middle of a thread. You obviously know nothing about “real researchers”. There’s stuff you research over long periods of time and there’s casual stuff that comes up that you answer quickly. Happens all the time.

But your continued attempts to try to malign me just make you look desperate. Do you think most people don’t see it? I get far more sympathy than hate from these types of posts.

Oxidia.8103:

I see a lot of people thinks quantaty means quality which i’m sorry to read. Nicky minaj has about 300 milion views on her music videos, does that make her a quality musician? Nope.

Absolutely 100% true.

But it has nothing to do with what I’ve been saying.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

I’m a researcher by profession. It’s part of what I did. Fact checking. I go around a look for facts.

People have certainly been saying that this data means nothing since page 1. So what? People say lots of things…many of which are incorrect.

I take it you think of yourself as the exception based on how you talk/write.

I’ve followed this stuff for years, people are coming and saying…I never heard of it, so it must be wrong.

If you don’t want to accept that this is an indication of something that’s well within your rights.

I choose to think those numbers are representative but accept that others aren’t necessarily of the same opinion. That’s how life works; there will always be people who believe different things and maybe people were more receptive to what you have to say were you not always so adamant about being right and tried an actual dialogue.

You agree with those people so what they tell me seems right to you and you believe I should just accept it.

No, quite the contrary. That’s just a result of my ego not being as big and thinking I know everything better than everyone else. I simply accept that different people choose to believe different things. Now as I see it, people know that statistically the game is doing alright, however based on people I talk to from the WvW and SPvP community as well as my guild members (the new ones who joined after the old brigade left) who play more PvE the overall enjoyment has gone down.

People I talk to are displeased with the direction the game is going so they fear that Anet chooses to persue said path based on their numbers. People are just afraid the game they loved turned into something they don’t like – perfectly understandable if you ask me.
The world isn’t always black and white but a good researcher would know that.

Yes, the world isn’t always black and white and I’m well aware of that. In case you haven’t noticed, I’ve never once said this was a great game. Not once. But I have said people who are saying this game is dead are wrong. Mistaken or providing misinformation deliberately.

It’s funny that you can’t differentiate between what I’ve said and what you think I’m saying.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Scryeless.1924:

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Shhh! Vayne doesn’t tolerate objections. You should know that after reading through his posting history :P

I guess personal attacks are all you can do when you have nothing left to say that’s actually on topic or accurate.

People have been telling you since page one that those numbers are not representative. You chose to ignore it. I told you that the game feels more empty and tried to make the point that even if what you are saying is right, for me and the people I play with the game feels mor empty. You tried to prove a subjective opinion wrong.

That alone shows what kind of person you are Not that anyone who frequents the forums doesn’t already know that.

I’m a researcher by profession. It’s part of what I did. Fact checking. I go around a look for facts.

People have certainly been saying that this data means nothing since page 1. So what? People say lots of things…many of which are incorrect. I’ve followed this stuff for years, people are coming and saying…I never heard of it, so it must be wrong.

If you don’t want to accept that this is an indication of something that’s well within your rights. Trying to ridicule me, however is not in your rights.

You agree with those people so what they tell me seems right to you and you believe I should just accept it.

Well that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Scryeless.1924:

Using these items as a method for measuring trends of any sort will only show you a small trend of a small population that use these items. It doesn’t represent a trend of any kind for the games they are playing.

Here is the difference. A: Anet, using actual numbers from server data, releasing a statement on trends of players. -is different from- B: The developers of these items, using numbers from their server data, release a statement on the trends of users of their software.

This is like a journalist writing a story about the overall health of the education system in Country XXX using the truancy data from one school instead of going to the Country’s School Truancy Data Collection point and using all of the numbers.

Okay, let’s try this one more time.

I’ve been following Raptr for a long, long time and that site, though it may not contain zillions of users, it does in fact reflect what you can see and read elsewhere.

I knew Wildstar was doing bad from Raptr before I found it out anywhere else. I tracked the decline of ESO on Raptr as well.

It’s like saying polling doesn’t mean anything, which is patently untrue. It’s not a 100% gospel thing, but it certainly does show trends, which is all I’m talking about.

Now, you may not agree, but that doesn’t make it less true. And since you obviously haven’t been following Raptr for any length of time, you’re just talking out of what you consider to be logical.

I’m talking about my experience of following it. Do it yourself. It’s easy enough to go back and look at how games track and look how the games that become unpopular fall off the top 20 and the games that are fairly popular stay there.

You seem to think I’m trying to track exact numbers of some kind. These sites are useless for that. But they’re absolutely not useless for tracking trends.

Jacobbs.9468:

Vayne.8563:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good Evening,

A couple of things.

1: The next phase of the CDI will be delayed until this weekend or Monday due lack of available time on my part.
2: whilst I am very much looking forward to the raid discussion and chatting with you all about it I do want to make it clear that this last CDI has been excellent, with maturity and collaboration throughout. So to be clear unnecessary comments about ‘True Gamers’, ‘Elitists’ and ‘Dress Up Players’ won’t be tolerated.

I just want to make this clear so we can all have a healthy discussion and design out a Raid System proposal that is born out of GW2’s core mechanics, personality and community passion.

Looking forward to having a great discussion with you all.

Chris

Thanks for this. I really can’t stand people judging other people as “real” gamers, or carebears because they prefer one aspect of games to others. It’s demeaning and unnecessary.

Glad to see it won’t be tolerated in the raiding thread.

I strongly believe that the respect you speak of runs both ways. There are players that want some challenging, instanced raid content, but we just get called elitists and that’s that.

I’m in TTS, and we’ve been called elitists despite our open recruiting policy. We have a few simple rules to abide by: 1) rep when you do world events with us, 2) we ask that you get on TeamSpeak for Triple Trouble because of the nature of the fight (and we always explain everything for those that are joining us who are new – TS makes this much faster and easier) and 3) be nice to people. I don’t see how these rules make us elitist, but haters gunna hate.

Bottom line: the want for challenging content does not automatically mean that we want to exclude people from content in the game.

No one said you did. But elitism is a problem with a certain percentage of people who like hard content, not all people who like hard content. There are people out there who pretty much live to insult and put down other people.

It’s like PvPers. There are a lot of really nice PvPers. I know some of them. But there’s also a very vocal element of PvPers who will trash anyone who enters a match and does something wrong.

Now, it’s far less likely that that will happen with casual players in game. The calls of elitist tend to be a response to people who are telling us how bad we are.

But I don’t believe people who want hard content are elitists and I don’t think casual people can’t play the game.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Since the program tracks player hours…

One more. I don’t know whether it’s good to measure player population in GW2 that way as many players just afk in the capitals. Even back in the day when LA wasn’t destroyed
it was quite apparent that a ton of players just stand in LA while doing something else.
I’m sure a lot of my ingame lifetime was accumulated by tabbing out while standing in LA or DR.

Look, I get it. You dislike all the doomsaying on the forums and wanted to provide ‘objective’ evidence to show that GW2 isn’t dying.
It’s just that those numbers don’t really help the players. For example when I have to wait 15 minutes for a pvp match to open only to get a 4v5, that’s not fun, no matter how many players are ingame.

When I can’t, for the life of me, find a populated lab map to farm and all 3-4 taxis I was trying to take were just based on my current map, it doesn’t help me when xfire or whatever says that the game is alive. (I ended up commanding the seemingly only map during friday 6-10pm CET – primetime)
When raptr lists GW2 in the top 10, that’s great, but it won’t bring all my guildies back who played since prophecies but left a few months ago (around 40 people if I recall correctly).

The game isn’t dying. That’s great to hear because as someone who wants to see GW2 doing well, more players are always good but it feels that way.
I know it’s not an indicator for player activity but as someone said, mad king says used to be bustling with players. Now it’s maybe 10-20 even with megaservers (during primetime). PvP queues are much longer than they used to be. Chat in LA and DR is practically dead. If you have a different experience, great. However that’s how it’s been for me (EU servercluster, playtime between 5-7pm CET)

Numbers are great but what I want is a fun game.

Funny, because it doesn’t feel that way to me. It doesn’t feel that way to me when the zerg numbers in WvW are so large you can’t go anywhere without serious risk (tier 1 servers at least).

I’m relatively sure Anet lowered the server caps on the Mad King’s Labyrinth this year so you can’t zerg. I know this because the small zerg we were in capped out when my guldies tried to join, though eventually they did get into my server.

And then you have people saying no one is in Lion’s Arch and you’re trying to say people are just standing around there. You can’t both be right.

Anyway if people weren’t playing, why would they be standing around in LA anyway? That makes no sense.

I can’t remember the last time I logged into a game I wasn’t playing to stand around. As an example, I don’t play WoW and I don’t log in and stand around in WoW.

LFG dungeon groups tend to fill pretty fast. Stuff I sell on the trading post sells pretty fast. Trying to say the game doesn’t have players is just ridiculous whether your guild left or not.

Wow, did you really just try to prove my feelings wrong that the game used to be more fun for me personally? Whiteknight’s gotta whiteknight I guess.

Where did you see me mention the word fun? I’m sorry this post isn’t about fun. If you want to talk about fun, start a thread and talk about it.

Now, maybe you haven’t seen a trend on these forums of threads attempting to announce the death of the game, but I have. And maybe, just maybe, those people have an ax to grind. But they have no evidence to back it up.

If you’re not having fun, you’re not having fun and no one can tell you otherwise. But if you think this game is dead, you’ve never played a dead game. This game is very much alive…whether your friends play it or they don’t.

It doesn’t take a white knight to speak an obvious truth. I’m wondering what kind of person it takes to deny an obvious truth.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Since the program tracks player hours…

One more. I don’t know whether it’s good to measure player population in GW2 that way as many players just afk in the capitals. Even back in the day when LA wasn’t destroyed
it was quite apparent that a ton of players just stand in LA while doing something else.
I’m sure a lot of my ingame lifetime was accumulated by tabbing out while standing in LA or DR.

Look, I get it. You dislike all the doomsaying on the forums and wanted to provide ‘objective’ evidence to show that GW2 isn’t dying.
It’s just that those numbers don’t really help the players. For example when I have to wait 15 minutes for a pvp match to open only to get a 4v5, that’s not fun, no matter how many players are ingame.

When I can’t, for the life of me, find a populated lab map to farm and all 3-4 taxis I was trying to take were just based on my current map, it doesn’t help me when xfire or whatever says that the game is alive. (I ended up commanding the seemingly only map during friday 6-10pm CET – primetime)
When raptr lists GW2 in the top 10, that’s great, but it won’t bring all my guildies back who played since prophecies but left a few months ago (around 40 people if I recall correctly).

The game isn’t dying. That’s great to hear because as someone who wants to see GW2 doing well, more players are always good but it feels that way.
I know it’s not an indicator for player activity but as someone said, mad king says used to be bustling with players. Now it’s maybe 10-20 even with megaservers (during primetime). PvP queues are much longer than they used to be. Chat in LA and DR is practically dead. If you have a different experience, great. However that’s how it’s been for me (EU servercluster, playtime between 5-7pm CET)

Numbers are great but what I want is a fun game.

Funny, because it doesn’t feel that way to me. It doesn’t feel that way to me when the zerg numbers in WvW are so large you can’t go anywhere without serious risk (tier 1 servers at least).

I’m relatively sure Anet lowered the server caps on the Mad King’s Labyrinth this year so you can’t zerg. I know this because the small zerg we were in capped out when my guldies tried to join, though eventually they did get into my server.

And then you have people saying no one is in Lion’s Arch and you’re trying to say people are just standing around there. You can’t both be right.

Anyway if people weren’t playing, why would they be standing around in LA anyway? That makes no sense.

I can’t remember the last time I logged into a game I wasn’t playing to stand around. As an example, I don’t play WoW and I don’t log in and stand around in WoW.

LFG dungeon groups tend to fill pretty fast. Stuff I sell on the trading post sells pretty fast. Trying to say the game doesn’t have players is just ridiculous whether your guild left or not.

Scryeless.1924:

These probably aren’t very good methods to measure player activity of any game. Just from personal experience I have never known anyone to use any of these and I play with a hundreds of people across a ton of games.

Edit: I know two people that used to use Overwolf.

They’re good methods of measuring trends. Why is this so hard to understand?

Do you want to know how I know? Because these sites have reflected the existing trends for a long time.

It’s not going to give you good specific information. But you will see trends. And just about all the time those trends will be backed up.

You’re working on a theory from not having followed those sites. I’m working from the point of view of having followed them.

The articles written on the Raptr blog each month add to the insight they give you. Go back over them and look for yourself.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s not a decent core of people who do.

I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to accept.

Who said I don’t like the game? Are you somehow actively looking for confrontation?
The question regarding bad press was just common sense: You did the search 1-2 days ago, right when IGN had an article about the game. For me it’s logical that interest in the game would rise slightly back then.

I’ve been checking those numbers for months.

Then please edit the OP from ‘long time’ to ‘a couple of months’.
Yesterday I was at the dentist and had to wait 30minutes. That was a ‘long time’ too.

I’ve been checking the REDDIT numbers for months. I’ve been checking those others for a lot longer. I’ve posted about those other numbers more than 6 months ago.

Thanks for the advice though.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s not a decent core of people who do.

I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to accept.

Who said I don’t like the game? Are you somehow actively looking for confrontation?
The question regarding bad press was just common sense: You did the search 1-2 days ago, right when IGN had an article about the game. For me it’s logical that interest in the game would rise slightly back then.

I’ve been checking those numbers for months.

Crovax.7854:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

The only thing misleading here is trying to compare a game a month after launch with a two year old game. That’s misleading.

You know Wildestar was doing fine the month it launched. So it does matter. A game that has yet to prove itself (and probably won’t prove itself) doesn’t factor into the conversation at all.

But your disingenuous attempt to change my point doesn’t matter. And everyone can see it for what it is.

Guild Wars 2 is fine. This thread was created (as I’ve said more than once now) in response to the people who say it’s not.

If you have evidence otherwise, go right ahead and present it.

Lol, funny how you were trying to argue GW2 has more interest than Archeage on Reddit right now, despite the real evidence. Which is to say, there is more interest in Archeage than GW2 right now (and more members online on average!). And FF14 consistently has more interest than GW2 on Reddit.
It’s true.

I posted exactly the numbers that were online when I posted it. At the time they were accurate. So I’m not sure what you’re point is.

And when I posted the numbers Guild Wars 2 has more as well. It’s possible Guild Wars 2 had higher numbers then because Halloween was newer, that I can’t say…but it had higher numbers.

It’s not like I lied. I looked when I looked.

Maybe when you looked it up more players were google searching it because of the bad press?

edit: In overwolf hearthstone is #12 despite having 20 million players . Those numers are far from accurate, plus GW and overwolf entered a partnership so of course more people use OW than in other games. Me personally, I didn’t even know those trackers existed with exception of xfire and last time I used that was around 8 years ago

Since the program tracks player hours, having 20 million players doesn’t necessarily mean much. And how many of those 20 million players are current? Is everyone still playing? Did anyone stop playing? Do people play Hearthstone as long at a time as they sit in MMOs.

The program simply tracks hours played and the numbers change all the time. Yesterday when I looked Guild Wars 2 was at 9 and today it’s at 10. It just means people are in game doing Halloween stuff for more hours than people are playing Heartstone at this particular time.

As for Googling Guild Wars 2 the numbers of people doing that aren’t going up and down and spiking because of the bad press.. but it’s a nice try on your part.

People who don’t enjoy playing this game can’t understand that people out there do enjoy playing this game.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean there’s not a decent core of people who do.

I’m not sure why that’s so hard for you to accept.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

The only thing misleading here is trying to compare a game a month after launch with a two year old game. That’s misleading.

You know Wildestar was doing fine the month it launched. So it does matter. A game that has yet to prove itself (and probably won’t prove itself) doesn’t factor into the conversation at all.

But your disingenuous attempt to change my point doesn’t matter. And everyone can see it for what it is.

Guild Wars 2 is fine. This thread was created (as I’ve said more than once now) in response to the people who say it’s not.

If you have evidence otherwise, go right ahead and present it.

Lol, funny how you were trying to argue GW2 has more interest than Archeage on Reddit right now, despite the real evidence. Which is to say, there is more interest in Archeage than GW2 right now (and more members online on average!). And FF14 consistently has more interest than GW2 on Reddit.
It’s true.

I posted exactly the numbers that were online when I posted it. At the time they were accurate. So I’m not sure what you’re point is.

And when I posted the numbers Guild Wars 2 has more as well. It’s possible Guild Wars 2 had higher numbers then because Halloween was newer, that I can’t say…but it had higher numbers.

It’s not like I lied. I looked when I looked.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Too bad you’re wrong about FF having lower traffic, as I pointed out in a later post.
The thing about WoW, well, they had millions more players than GW2 (and probably still does), so really…
It really doesn’t matter how long interest in Archeage lasts in the long run. It’s got more interest right now so saying “Guild Wars 2 has more members online than Archeage” was extremely misleading.

The only thing misleading here is trying to compare a game a month after launch with a two year old game. That’s misleading.

You know Wildestar was doing fine the month it launched. So it does matter. A game that has yet to prove itself (and probably won’t prove itself) doesn’t factor into the conversation at all.

But your disingenuous attempt to change my point doesn’t matter. And everyone can see it for what it is.

Guild Wars 2 is fine. This thread was created (as I’ve said more than once now) in response to the people who say it’s not.

If you have evidence otherwise, go right ahead and present it.

Vix.6730:

wasted.6817:

Not to jump to any conclusions or w/e, but what i noticed recently. For the past ~month, maybe more, LA chat is practically dead, no matter what time of day, no conversations at all, that’s the first time i see this in GW2 and i’am playing since beta. Now with Halloween there are some, but can’t be even nearly compared to how it used to be during past Halloweens. ~20 ppl doing Mad King says… used to be crowded. If it’s any indicator of decline in playerbase, then it could be because of:

1. General discontent after 9/9 patch and long break between LS seasons.
2. Archeage release. I know for a fact that many big guilds left for AA, as guilds.
3. Pre WoD patch release in WoW.

People who left were practically ready to leave for some time now and were just waiting for a good reason. Let’s see what happens on episode 2 release with Wintersday following up.

All very good observations. I have my doubts about Wintersday and the finale of LS season 2, though. More than enough players have become disillusioned with Anet’s handling of GW2, it’ll take a full on expansion to restore the glory. On the bright side I’ve been finding more and crowds in GW1. Not everyone has migrated back to Wow, many have returned home

They’re biased observations. Archeage isn’t doing as well as you’d think. Quite a few people, even on these forums, who touted Archeage prerelease have already left Archeage in disgust.

You guys seem to think many of the players enjoying Guild Wars 2 LIKE other MMOs like WoW…but many of us don’t. This is the MMO for the rest of us.

The people who don’t like Guild Wars 2 often do like other MMOs. For many of us, WoW and Archeage were NEVER options.

BlueZone.4236:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

That thing fluctuates a lot though. Try going back few months to the time of living story if you can.

Ok, but you can see it on the page yourself, but I suppose I can post the numbers here.
Archeage skipped, obviously because it wasn’t released.

Unique traffic by month (2014):
GW2:
August 626,576 (Living Story)
July 576,472 (Living Story)
June 529,590
May 619,891
April 586,788
March 580,467 (Living Story)
February 534,457 (Living Story)
January 543,282 (Living Story)

FF14:
August 720,962
July 743,345
June 645,430
May 665,302
April 682,414
March 612,954
February 590,915
January 697,025

So FF14 has more traffic regardless of month this year.

Not even closely relevant to what I’m saying though. So let’s say Guild Wars 2 is #3, instead of #2? So? Changes absolutely nothing.

There’s a few guys on the forums that try to make it out like this game has one foot in the grave, when it’s the 3rd or 4th most popular MMO…and might well be the second most if it weren’t for console sales (a point people keep ignoring).

Regardless, it doesn’t change anything one whit. The game is fine…that’s all this means.

Ashen.2907:

So, according to the supposed (supposed because we have no proof that X-Fire or any of the others’ numbers are accurate) facts GW2 has a few hundred players. Everything else on either side is speculation.

Personally I think that GW2 has more than three or four hundred(ish) players, but the facts presented only support that ballpark.

I have no proof that Xfire is accurate. But we know for a fact that Guild Wars has more than hundreds of players because there are multiple maps with hundreds of players all doing stuff at the same time. For example, even when there were queues for the top servers during the WvW tournament, there were still multiple zones doing the Fire Ele.

I have no proof that three different sites that track numbers are tracking numbers? lol

Okay you have no proof there are less players in the game now than there were six months ago.

And since this thread is in response to people who are saying the game is dead with no proof, I’d take this “proof” over their proof.

And again, Anet didn’t have anyone laid off when NcSoft was restructuring. One would think if it was dead they would have.

BlueZone.4236:

Looking at the reddit active view numbers now:
GW2: 447
FF 14: 778
Archeage: 640

Interesting enough, there’s lots of GW2 reddit subscribers, yet their traffic is impressively low compared to the traffic to number of subscribers ratio:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/traffic/
http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/about/traffic/

Unique traffic this month (October)
GW2: 410,097
FF14: 513,682
Archeage: 961,378

Yet at any given time, all day long,. 2 years on, Guild Wars 2 hangs with the best of them. It’s like WoW. I can guarantee you more people have stopped playing WoW completely than are now playing WoW, probably several times over. So?

Guild Wars 2 is 2 years old. In 2 years will Archeage have that kind of traffic. Do you want to compare Guild Wars 2 launch month to Archeages? I didn’t think so.

As for FF…it’s usually lower in traffic than Guild Wars 2 and I’ve checked a number of times. However, whether it’s higher or lower was never really my point.

My point is that there are people on these forums, over the course of many threads, who can do nothing but say this game is dead, this game is dying, this game is on life support or whatever phrase they want to try to imply this game isn’t doing well.

And my answer is this game is doing pretty much as well as any MMORPG on the PC, with the exception of WoW. Other than that, if we’re no doing well no MMORPG is.

Vix.6730:

Vayne.8563:

I can see the OP’s point about being disappointed. But if they really didn’t change much, and they haven’t done living story in months, does anyone really still believe they’re not working on something bigger?

My guess is that Anet started working on the expansion late in the day, and once again, they’re playing catch up.

But I think there will be an expansion.

Given Anet’s policy on not speaking about releases until they’re near completion I wouldn’t expect an announcement for 7 months at least, assuming they started an expansion during the lull.

But here’s the thing: if they are working on an expansion then the LS is effectively done after these final episodes. Which in turn means we could be facing a total blackout period of 5-6 months. What do you think will happen to the remaining playerbase during that time?

I think they started working on big projects before the lull, which they’re now saving for an expansion. I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t affect the Living Story team, since that team is only 20 people.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

laokoko.7403:

phys.7689:

laokoko.7403:

I think what Vayne is trying to say is… GW2 is still one of the most popular mmorpg on the market eventhough the game have been out for 2 years.

That being said just about every mmorpg is slowly leaking players. Very few can refill new players as fast as they lost.

this is not really true, most of the historical successful MMOs expanded before the contracted. WoW, FFXI, FFXIV RO EQ Lineage etc.
the bleeding usually comes later in the cycle after they have peaked.

many mmos do bleed players, but those are generally not the ones that are seen as successful,

Right but I think you need to look at it in several ways. Some of the game in your list is asian focus market(lineage), which is very different market. Or very old games when there are not much competition. Or have failed lunch which redo their whole games. Or can’t be criticized because they are the most profitable mmorpg for the past 10 years.

What I’m trying to say is if you just look at western games, post wow era, there isn’t any games which wasn’t leaking players. I honestly just look at it as players being too demanding, and game developers just can’t keep up.

to be perfectly honest, most of the MMOs in recent years have been sub par. They get numbers because people want the new thing, but they are not designed and maintained that well.

essentially i think they bleed players because they arent that good at what they are trying to do.

And you’re only making an assumption that that’s the reason why they bleed players. But that’s not necessarily a warranted assumption. Rift wasn’t really a badly designed MMO even though I didn’t like what it was pushing. What it pushed was more WoWness which was playing to a saturated market.

I think Guild Wars 2’s success (at least compared to most MMOs released) is that it didn’t try to copy the WoW formula and tried to create a different kind of experience, which the core game still is.

I think there are more people tired of WoW than currently play WoW. That doesn’t mean they’re going to automatically like Guild Wars 2 though.

i hated rift within the first 30 minutes. so i cant really comment on rift.

but what im saying is good games rise to the top.
For example, when street fighter 2 blew up the scene there was years of cheap fighters that followed, most couldnt compare, because they just werent that good.

there were tons of fake mario games, most sucked.
What im saying is a lot of these mmos that dont last, thats just the nature of games, few games are good enough to rise to the top.

You’re making generalizations though and trying to apply it to a specific genre of game, that is by nature different from all other games.

MMOs are more complicated and have more divided player bases than any other genre of game.

People who enjoy 3D shooters tend to like to kill stuff. People who play racing games like to drive fast. People who play single player RPGs tend to like stories.

MMOs cost more to make than those games and try to cater to a mixed audience. It’s not targeted in the same way. So you can’t really compare this genre to others.

For example, I would never play Street Fighter 2, period. Not my thing. The people who play it expect a very specific activity. Sure it’s good..but it only has to be good at a couple of things. MMOs require balance…unless they’re very niche MMOs. If you’re trying to appeal to a mass audience, you’re starting off behind the eight ball.

There are no good MMOs because people have unreasonable expectations of MMOs. I’m not sure how many people get thousands of hours out of Street Fighter, but I do know that Skyrim you could play for hundreds of hours. Which isn’t enough for an MMO. And that’s very much the exception to the rule. Tombraider might give you 20 hours (probably less). It’s just not fair to compair non-MMOs to MMOs particularly in regard to your expectation of them.

I can see the OP’s point about being disappointed. But if they really didn’t change much, and they haven’t done living story in months, does anyone really still believe they’re not working on something bigger?

My guess is that Anet started working on the expansion late in the day, and once again, they’re playing catch up.

But I think there will be an expansion.

phys.7689:

laokoko.7403:

phys.7689:

laokoko.7403:

I think what Vayne is trying to say is… GW2 is still one of the most popular mmorpg on the market eventhough the game have been out for 2 years.

That being said just about every mmorpg is slowly leaking players. Very few can refill new players as fast as they lost.

this is not really true, most of the historical successful MMOs expanded before the contracted. WoW, FFXI, FFXIV RO EQ Lineage etc.
the bleeding usually comes later in the cycle after they have peaked.

many mmos do bleed players, but those are generally not the ones that are seen as successful,

Right but I think you need to look at it in several ways. Some of the game in your list is asian focus market(lineage), which is very different market. Or very old games when there are not much competition. Or have failed lunch which redo their whole games. Or can’t be criticized because they are the most profitable mmorpg for the past 10 years.

What I’m trying to say is if you just look at western games, post wow era, there isn’t any games which wasn’t leaking players. I honestly just look at it as players being too demanding, and game developers just can’t keep up.

to be perfectly honest, most of the MMOs in recent years have been sub par. They get numbers because people want the new thing, but they are not designed and maintained that well.

essentially i think they bleed players because they arent that good at what they are trying to do.

And you’re only making an assumption that that’s the reason why they bleed players. But that’s not necessarily a warranted assumption. Rift wasn’t really a badly designed MMO even though I didn’t like what it was pushing. What it pushed was more WoWness which was playing to a saturated market.

I think Guild Wars 2’s success (at least compared to most MMOs released) is that it didn’t try to copy the WoW formula and tried to create a different kind of experience, which the core game still is.

I think there are more people tired of WoW than currently play WoW. That doesn’t mean they’re going to automatically like Guild Wars 2 though.

There are only two MMORPGs on that list and only one themepark MMORPG. Obviously WoW is going to be on that list and it is. Final fantasy isn’t. SWToR isn’t. Rift isn’t.

I’ve said all along MMORPGs are really a niche game and the genre is very competitive. Less players across more products means less profits across the board.

So I’m not surprised at all.

Of all the western MMOs, only WoW is on that list. I’m pretty sure that FF would be before Guild Wars 2, because it has consoles and computers, if you’re looking at just pure intake of money. If it’s not there’s a problem.

But for western MMOs, and themepark MMOs, WoW is the only one that made it into the top 10.

phys.7689:

laokoko.7403:

I think what Vayne is trying to say is… GW2 is still one of the most popular mmorpg on the market eventhough the game have been out for 2 years.

That being said just about every mmorpg is slowly leaking players. Very few can refill new players as fast as they lost.

this is not really true, most of the historical successful MMOs expanded before the contracted. WoW, FFXI, FFXIV RO EQ Lineage etc.
the bleeding usually comes later in the cycle after they have peaked.

many mmos do bleed players, but those are generally not the ones that are seen as successful,

Except that history in an industry that changes this fast is notoriously unreliable. For example, when WoW started it’s ascent there were NO free to play MMOs at all, and very little by way of competition. It’s not like today. If you’re a Star Trek fan there’s Star Trek. Star Wars fans have Star Wars. Horror fans have TSW. You might not love a game but might love a franchise.

There’s no way to look at the history of MMOs from even five years ago and compare it to today. It’s just not a fair comparison.

I have every minipet from Set three unlocked but I still don’t have credit for the new minipet achievement – Miniature Collection Set 3.

It still says I have 35/45 when in fact I have all of them.

@phys

All very logical, except no one really has the numbers to know. At this point, the game is “fine”. That is to say, it’s profitable and it’s sustainable. Going into the future, no one can say.

The bottom line is, and it’s always been the bottom line, Anet might be working on something bigger, and more expansion like. If that’s annouced or that comes out, that becomes a game changer.

I don’t think the company is resting on its laurels. I think they’re working on something. Feel free to disagree if you want, but I think they’re pushing, because they started late.