Guild Wars 2

Rasimir.6239:

runeblade.7514:

Rasimir.6239:

runeblade.7514:

laokoko.7403:

runeblade.7514:

The level 32 Heart quest in Fields of Ruin is the most frustrating of all.

No ogre spawns there at all. Only a few ogre racks spawns with a long respawn timer plus it takes a long time to complete it.

Just pick up the char metal. All you need to do is stand in 1 place and pick up charr metal which respawn every 5*0000* seconds and it’s done in 100 seconds. years

fixed.

Nope. The heart in question actually has an incredibly short respawn rate for charr metal. Just run the smallest circle around the southern platform, and metal will respawn before you’re even half-way around. Just standing next to a pile and picking it up actually is a quick (if somewhat boring) way to get this one done.

That said, I personally am always happy when I find the event going on in that area, since that will give me plenty of ogres to fight instead of collecting metal, or better yet, the area taken over by the ogres, which, admittedly doesn’t happen all that often these days, since there’s always people around that try to do the meta event.

Sounds like you were lucky enough to get ogre respawns.

On a few characters, yes, but there were a fair number (probably between 10 and 15 of my characters have done that heart so far) where I had to do that heart the “hard” way, without a single ogre in sight, too. That metal respawns crazy fast, it’s much less of a problem to finish that heart than several others around (one heart in north-western Harathi comes to mind, where you have pretty much lost if you happen to come after the seraph take over but still a good while before the centaurs attack again ).

In that Harathi heart, between weapon racks and the stuff you collect, I never really had much problem…even if the centaurs are gone. It does take a bit longer, but that’s because it’s super fast if you’re killing centaurs.

Maybe it’s because I don’t do zone completion the way most people do, but I don’t have a problem with probably 90% of the hearts. There are a few that are questionable…but not many.

Anyway I tend to do a bit every time I’m through an area, because I know I’ll be back and eventually stuff just gets finished. Like all by itself.

I hate the whole checklist thing.

I just want a legendary cricket bat. The five skill would be a launch called Hit for a Six. That’s all I want.

It’s the same in every creative industry. Every, single one.

The problem is, there’s less slots for creative people than there are creative people. A lot less slots. So you have editors who get 1200 submissions a month and can publish 5 books. That’s 1195 books rejected every month. And the books that editors buy are almost always going to be from names they know.

How does this relate to games? You have X number of people who actually want to be game designers, but they don’t have the money or the influence to actually make a huge gaming company. To some degree, kickstart has had an affect and independent games now have a chance, but even then, very few independent games are hugely successful, though many make enough sales to justify their creation.

MMOs, unfortunately, have become big business. That means a lot of years and a big bankroll for a AAA MMO. That means years of not making money while you pay developers, rent, voice actors and whatever else you need. It’s not so easy to make MMOs, which is why almost all of them run out of money and have to launch early. They’re expensive and ambitious.

I think the author of this article is one of the artists. It’s the difference between the publishing industry in the 60s and the publishing industry now. It’s big business and the suits have moved in.

It’s all nice in theory. In practice, developers generally can’t fund their own games…and those that can fund them aren’t often visionaries.

So that’s the issue? That people get stuck with like less than 9 gems?

While it might be a bit vexing…this is hardly what you could call a cash grab. Wtb a reality check.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I did not think the changes to starter zone hearts accomplished very much. Take the L3 WFF Bear Shrine heart. Feeding the cubs used to require: click the trap or catch a fish; run to a cub; click on cub; click to feed cub. Now: click on trap and watch fish appear and cub swat it. New mechanic is one simple action, old mechanic is four simple actions. Neither mechanic is hard.

However, I I also don’t think heart changes are a big deal. New players won’t know the difference and vets can either level past the starter area rapidly or use an instant “I’m level 20” item.

I think Anet does what they often do. They completely overcompensated. They’ve been doing it since Guild Wars 1.

tofumon.5924:

SkyShroud.2865:

experienced player complaining about how “nonsense” it is fight with limited skills, so that what it means to be experienced, interesting.

You like to play games with limited number of skills? I can recommend a game I’m sure you’ll enjoy. It’s called rock-paper-scissors. Only 3 skills to choose from!

You mean like chess?

sorudo.9054:

you know how i feel about Anet’s decision, they are plain and simple patronizing veteran players.
i dunno about you but i would really love to see something improve for a chance, all they do is change the game to make it easier for new players but care jack for veteran players.

we are asking for new skills and all we get is one single new healing skill that, for now, has never bin welcome by anyone.
we ask to improve the trait system and they completely ruin the system to oblivion, we even ask for a bit more flexibility and they just blandly limit leveling even more.
and you want to know the worst thing, all the changes are made so the chinese players can enjoy a game they like, western players are just ignored.

ps. did you know that they are so busy stuffing there pockets that they even forget to extend the license of Anet, look al the way down and check the date

If they didn’t make the changes for veteran players, then there’s no way they can be patronizing veteran players.

Drytop is a new zone and certainly doesn’t patronize veteran players.

What you’re saying is changes to the early levels of starter zones is patronizing veteran players. I say you need a thicker skin.

Zylonite.5913:

This is gotta be one of the smartest strategies I have ever seen…

• Community unhappy
• Announce a feature that would rage the community
• Watch the community complain
• Announce that they listened to us and reverting the change
• Become the hero again and everyone happy ever after
• Continue with no contents but they listened to us at least

Ummm, there’s new content coming November 4th. Conspiracy Theory much? lol

Lord Kuru.3685:

Palador.2170:

locoman.1974:

According to Gaile, they’re doing their best to have it implemented before halloween ends, but no promises:

It’s up, but even the new stuff is keeping the change when you turn gems into gold, so those of us that liked to do that are still worse off than before.

And yes, a few silver isn’t much, but it can still make a difference.

Cash grab is the only possible explanation. They’re rounding it like this on purpose. Rip a few silver off of each player and it ends up being a lot of gold.

I thought it always rounded this way, even in the old system.

The big thing for me isn’t the stat system itself. It’s that none of those stats were tied to armor.

It’s all very nice to be able to change traits outside of combat, but carrying around 2, 3 sets of armor for different builds is just annoying (and I won’t do it).

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’m providing information to people who haven’t

And as I noted, the provided information is still suspect.

The only decent piece of information you have is the layoff thing, and honestly, that doesn’t even necessarily point to anything depending on where in NCSOFT the layoffs occurred, even if ANet escaped unscathed, because it depends on -why- the layoffs occurred.

Layoffs, horrible as they are, don’t always point to a company doing worse. Backwards as that may seem.

Vayne.8563:

You saying something is worthless is completely your opinion. It’s not constructive or helpful.

This whole thread is neither constructive nor helpful, as I already explained.

That aside, you asked me to talk about the topic. So I did. I’m sorry that you don’t like what I have to say about your presented data.

Vayne.8563:

And I don’t attack you. I respond to your attacks. I’m sure others can see the difference.

I simply call it as I see it. I find it hilarious that you would try and call me disingenuous considering your own posting history. I called you a contrarian because you basically admitted to it.

If you feel they are bad enough to call attacks, then by all means, report my posts.

Ignoring what I’m saying in favor of your own conclusions about me, implies you think you know me better than I know myself. I can say with some confidence you don’t. And judging anyone by a single line of their text is completely meaningless.

People can make up their own mind whether or not the things I’ve said have value. You don’t believe they have value and that’s your belief. It’s not fact. They may well have value. People will decide.

I won’t be answering your posts anymore, feel free to have the last word.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Enough with the personal attacks.

After you.

Vayne.8563:

If you have something to add to the conversation by all means add it.

The numbers are meaningless. Your data is just as suspect as the “dead game” crowd.

I don’t care if it’s three data points. None of them are official data points. None of them are official ANet sources.

But let’s say that you’re officially right and the game is doing fine and your sources are some kind of supremely solid proof.

Congrats! You’ve changed…-absolutely nothing- about these forums or the game as a whole! You’ve affected nothing at all by presenting these numbers.

People that feel like the game is dying will still feel as such, and will most likely still say as such. And any new players that come to these forums likely won’t care about the numbers, since if they’re coming to the forums, they probably have some kind of problem with the game to begin with.

Said problem might even be that they feel like the game is dead. Or lack of mounts, or whatever.

Your data is, frankly, useless for two reasons. The first is that it’s an unofficial source that only includes people that actively use a specific type of program.

The second reason is that you’re presenting this data in order to combat remarks that are, on a whole, most likely subjective. And due to their subjective nature, you presenting this data isn’t likely to change any minds because you can scream about how the game is fine til you’re blue in the face (and boy have you)…

But those numbers are going to be 100% meaningless to the person who has lost their entire guild three or more times from members leaving (or whatever example you please).

Posting these numbers on the forums doesn’t help the game one bit. It doesn’t make the game -feel- more alive. It doesn’t answer burning questions about SAB/mounts/traits/moogles/tiddlywinks. It doesn’t help the communication problems ANet has been having. And it fails to provide any kind of useful or meaningful feedback to ANet about their product and what they could or could not do to make it even more of a fun experience for newbies and vets alike. It certainly doesn’t bring the GW2 community closer together.

Vayne.8563:

If you can’t do anything but talk about me, you should probably not be posting.

You should never be posting. Things were better without you, quite frankly.

Again I’m not trying to change the mind of people who have their mind made up. I’m providing information to people who haven’t, of which I assume there are plenty. You saying something is worthless is completely your opinion. It’s not constructive or helpful.

And I don’t attack you. I respond to your attacks. I’m sure others can see the difference.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Totally disingenuous.

Hilarious coming from you.

Enough with the personal attacks. If you have something to add to the conversation by all means add it. If you can’t do anything but talk about me, you should probably not be posting.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

This isn’t completely provable. Some people may very well complain because they care. Other people, however, like to troll and don’t really care. They simply post because they think it’s fun to rile people up. I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case with people in this thread, but there are definitely people that come to forums for no other reason than to annoy “fan boys”.

I dont’ think they are trolling. Many people complain about the game getting stale and lack of meaningful content. That is especially true for veterans and addicted gamers who play too much.

I myself included. I’m playing another game at the moment because GW2 along can’t provide me enough content to stay put. I still log on GW2 and do daily and fractals. But I used to only play GW2, now I play other games too.

I didn’t say everyone is trolling but that doesn’t mean no one is. Sometimes it’s not so easy to tell them apart.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

-post-

And normally? I would agree with you.

But you’re the one that constantly likes to tout your experiences in the apparently millions of various fields you’ve participated in, in order for your words to hold more weight.

So if you wanna be taken seriously? Expect to be held to a higher standard.

Totally disingenuous.

I don’t constantly do anything. I usually only bring it up when it specifically pertains to a matter. So if we’re talking about story or dialogue, sure I bring it up. And three fields isn’t millions, but aside from that, I don’t really care what standards anyone wants to hold me to.

Mostly I try to reasonable in what I say. Nothing I’ve said in this thread is unreasonable. However, many of the response I’ve gotten are quite unreasonable. Including this one.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I was reading fast, between PvP tournaments. Kitten happens.

Hey that’s your problem. Not mine.

You’re the publisher/store owner/grammar magician/english professor/jack of all trades that managed to fail to take the time to properly read.

LMAO! You obviously never worked with an editor before.

Editors read hundreds/thousands of things a day. Reading all the time. Reading fast.

I’m not paid to read these forums and I pay a lot less attention to people who are openly antagonistic.

When you’re paid to edit, you minimize distraction, you sit down, and double check everything. When you’re reading in your own time you skim and you’re right well over 95% of the time. Do you miss stuff? Sure.

Every single book has typos in it, even though it’s read by authors and editors. How much more so for something you’re doing casually.

And you’re right, it’s not your problem. But it’s not my problem either. Anyone who thinks editors are perfect has never had to work with one.

Gene Archer.8560:

Sarrs.4831:

Vayne.8563:

Sarrs.4831:

Vayne.8563:

How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.

“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”

— Mahatma Gandhi

I change the game from the inside. My chances of changing the forums are relatively minimal. I spend time in game helping new players, answering questions, being a good samaritan. Explaining strats at big events to people who don’t know.

wow you cannot draw in this forum

Picture made sense to me.

The point flew right over his head. Much like it always does.

I was reading fast, between PvP tournaments. Kitten happens.

Sarrs.4831:

Vayne.8563:

How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.

“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”

— Mahatma Gandhi

I change the game from the inside. My chances of changing the forums are relatively minimal. I spend time in game helping new players, answering questions, being a good samaritan. Explaining strats at big events to people who don’t know.

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Vayne.8563:

juno.1840:

Because nobody sermonizes as much as you do in these forums. Look at this topic, it’s like 45% vayne posts. Even your name sounds like “vain”.

That aside, you’re spending a lot of time arguing a pointless topic (which u also created). Do you even play GW2 any more?

… snip …
No one sermonizes as much as me? lol Okay. Maybe it’s because there are 20 people saying unprovable things as fact, and there are not as many people willing to stand up to them. Many disagree, but not everyone posts.

And since I’m replying in this thread to people who are replying to me (because it’s my thread) why wouldn’t I reply.

Maybe the fact you have to reply (and very few others are replying for you) suggests that this topic is useless. Sort of like self bumping you know.

I wouldn’t be spouting off too much on how players are pushing “unprovable things as fact”… that’s a double edged sword and I’m sure you’ve cut yourself already.

I’m sorry but what I’m saying is provable. Guild Wars 2 is in fact #11 on Xfire at the time I’m typing this. It does change. That’s a fact. Anet didn’t lay off people when the rest of NCsoft West did. That’s a fact.

I’m presenting the other side of a story. It’s easy for people to say the game is dead, with no proof whatsoever.

I’m presenting the other side of the story. And yes, I will reply to posts like this. You don’t really have to reply to my posts if you don’t like them.

Assuming you data is factual, it doesn’t factually prove anything. — correlation is all you’re doing. Your defense isn’t any better than other people’s offense.

I’ve already stated I don’t think the game is dead… I just logged off from playing tonight. However what the game is, is different for every person. That’s yet one more reason you’re wasting your time with this junk topic.

Why don’t you contribute to one of the threads that’s actually helpful? There’s a great one in the BLTP forum regarding way to improve RNG.

I seriously believe u use the forums to practice debate rather than improve gw2 or help other players.

How about you stop wasting time in this junk thread and contribute to other topics. At this point, I’m only replying to people. You’re part of the problem, not the solution.

nethykins.7986:

man…this thread….

Vayne, I can see your passion in all this…

But I really think there has to be some kind of understanding that, if the tables were turned, and the OP was a kind of ‘Anti-Vayne’. (for lack of a better term) You’d be the first one dismissing their information with the same passion you have reinforcing your original post.

Many-a-time you’ve stated that no-one knows numbers unless you work for Anet or have access to their servers – and if you don’t then it’s pure speculation regardless of your information.
And how often you’ve dismissed, and continue to dismiss people that oppose you on the weak statistics and sources – surely it’s only fair if people dismiss the information you’ve brought up?

Well, it’s quite quite that way. I’m happy to see some kind of evidence for what it is.

If Anet had been laying off people (instead of hiring them) that would be a clear indication the game is not meeting expectations.

Do you know why I’ve waited so long to post threads like this? Because I only used to follow Raptr and didn’t know about Overwolf or Xfire’s lists. So I didn’t feel that a single source was really a good thing.

I believed that it gave an indication, but until I started seeing more…I wasn’t really ready to stick my neck out.

I did post the Raptr info a couple of times, but always with a disclaimer. Then I learned about Overwolf, which is probably busier than Raptr. And then a friend reminded me of Xfire. At that point, I felt I had enough to push the point.

See, that’s what historians do to figure stuff out. They look for multiple corroborating points that have different sources. That’s how I learned to research.

Any single point of reference is always going to be questionable. And two points of reference with the same source, suffer the same problem. But here we have three data points. We have google trends. We have 400 plus people regularly on Reddit, but also over 600 on patch days, at least what I’ve been seeing.

So yes, there are multiple points of data that show the game isn’t really in any kind of trouble. The difference is, I’m not a source in this conversation. This isn’t my opinion. This is stuff I’ve researched.

I’m happy to look at anyone’s research when there’s evidence to back it up. I’m not happy to sit there and watch people say stuff (sometimes over and over) that’s not necessarily true.

laokoko.7403:

Paradox.1380:

laokoko.7403:

Paradox.1380:

Keep at it, someday one persons mind might change. Also, very interesting information to think on about the health of the game. I was pleasantly surprised indeed. Not that I thought the game was in any danger really, just the amount of people saying they leave, and the amount of people I see still online often now that I think about it is quite sharp.

Those are the person who are severely addicted, probably have a few thousands playing hours and wondering why they felt the game getting staled.

The problem I have with these sort of tools is very few people even use these tools. Xfire is pretty much saying there are only 50 concurrent players that is using xfire and playing GW2 at the same time.

And raptr and overwolf never even release how many data they manage to collect per month, that’s why people discredit them.

I’mn talking about people on this forum that shout to the mountains that they are quitting, have quit, etc. I have started putting several of them on my Friends List just to watch and I am amazed at people that I see online A Lot. Not just intermittently like that are checking.. but on for hours at a time and often.

They complain on the forums because they care. If they didn’t, they’d just quit without saying anything.

I would say you are more likely to see them online than your normal friend list whom when quit really never came back.

This isn’t completely provable. Some people may very well complain because they care. Other people, however, like to troll and don’t really care. They simply post because they think it’s fun to rile people up. I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case with people in this thread, but there are definitely people that come to forums for no other reason than to annoy “fan boys”.

Aside from that, some people lie outright to make points. We have it straight from Anet that there are people who claim they don’t log in, who still log in.

That’s why I try to go to external sites that are independent of me and Anet to get some kind of data and it’s why more than a single source is required to prove anything.

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

I love the ambrite weapon skins. That’s a reason to farm it for me.

Yes Vayne. So it is not boring for you.

I could care less about ambrite weapon skins, so Dry Top is not where you will find me.

Just because you love farming Dry Top, it does not follow that everyone else will feel the same way.

But if one were to find fulfillment in farming Dry Top, I believe that doing so in an organized group would yield superior results.

Actually it’s not boring for me anyway, because I don’t play to farm. I play to enjoy myself and I find it enjoyable.

I don’t actually farm at all. I play Dry Top when I feel like doing it. If I were farming it, I’d have had all those weapons already.

The people who farm it burn out fast. The people who just play it for enjoyment are less likely to.

I love the ambrite weapon skins. That’s a reason to farm it for me.

I guess that I misunderstood.

I did say it’s a reason to farm it…but I still don’t farm. It’s just a reason.

I never farm anything, ever. Because I hate farming. Farming is boring to me, Dry Top is not. I’m not stressed about getting that stuff over a two year period.

But it’s a reason to farm. That’s all I’m saying.

Antara.3189:

Why does any of this matter to a player? Is this really that important of an issue to be preached over an over?

If ArenaNet feels they need to share the factual statistics regarding activity, units purchased, etc., then they will. To try and theorize activity based on any 3rd party account is purely speculation. It’s really that simple.

Furthermore, battling over which game has more activity is plain malarkey. X game has more people than Y game because of Z. Y game sucks. Let’s work to provide criticism or applause on game-play issues, rather than irrelevant statistics.

Does any of this effect game mechanics or the lore? Is the game less enjoyable simply because x amount of people dislike the game? What sense does that even make?

There are plenty of issues and concerns that could be addressed, but this isn’t one of them, I can assure you.

You’re saying it matters to no players? That there are no players interested in how the game is doing? I find that really hard to believe.

YOU may not be interested, in which case, there’s probably no reason to post in this thread. None at all.

Players of MMOs are notoriously interested in how many people are playing it. You see this question all the time on Reddit. I want to start the game but I want to make sure that there are still people playing.

No one wants to play a dead MMO. So yeah, it’s interesting to players.

And yes, the evidence is pretty compelling, even if specific individuals don’t want to see it. In fact, some of them could just be trolling.

We’ve been told by Anet that some people who claim not to play the game, regularly log in.

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Sure data from Anet would be preferable. But they won’t give us that data whether they’re successful or not. There’s a reason for this…a business reason. If you give the information when you’re successful and suddenly you’re not, you have to stop giving the information and everyone will then know the game is going down hill. By not giving that information you’re not setting yourself up for possible future failure. You don’t set that kind of precedent, at least smart businesses don’t.

This game is going downhill. Remember last year how proudly they showed us the statistics. Given A-net attitude to everything, they would be doing the same this year. They are so proud of even the smallest things they do. They blow up even the simplest QoL change that isn’t even worth mentioning in other MMO’s, but here they act like they reïnvented the wheel when they bring us a simple QoL change.

So given their attitude, them NOT giving us the numbers is already a slight indication that things are going bad. And even worse than the ‘normal’ flow of things would be, because else they would have showed it us anyway with their kitteny attitude and just say: Yeah, this is the normal flow of data for a mmo that has been around for 2 years.

They give us nothing. And if they show us nothing, despite their kittenyness, already says enough…

Anet tried showing us stuff and it blew up in their face. You may not agree, but many have said it before me. It’s enough of a reason to be stingy with the information you provide.

And Anet has always had a history of over-reacting.

It may not be better, but it’s completely crap. For all practical purposes it’s exploiting.

If you’re in a place where your enemies can’t hit you, and you can profit from it, that’s pretty much the definition of an exploit.

NewTrain.7549:

Vayne.8563:

NewTrain.7549:

I honestly can’t believe this thread is still active.

OP in numerous posts chastises others for trying to make predictions about the game’s health without having access to ANet’s actual data. OP makes a thread predicting the game’s health without having access to ANet’s actual data. OP sees nothing wrong with his actions, even trying to paint himself as some champion of the silent majority.

That is why this thread is so utterly worthless (plus the dubious validity of source “data” being referenced).

I can’t believe you’d waste your valuable time posting in an utterly worthless thread. I think many things said on this forum are worthless…but you know what? I’m sure the people who posted them and other people see value in them.

There are people who see value in this. But a thread doesn’t open or close on your values.

Thanks for not addressing the crux of what I said. This is why people get so frustrated trying to have a dialogue with you. You’re far more interested in preaching than in actually responding to the points people make.

Look at this thread as an example. There are people who fundamentally agree with your point that the game is not dying, but because of the manner in which you present that point, you’ve alienated them. Now, some of your would-be-supporters are actually arguing against you, not because of your message, but because of the way you chose to deliver it. If you’re trying to counter-balance the negativity on the forums, you’re undermining your own efforts.

As for my “valuable” time, I don’t happen to be inconvenienced by the 20 seconds it takes to post.

I’ve already address that in previous posts. I don’t really need to repeat myself.

I don’t need Anet’s data to see trends.

When you see three separate sites that track software, and they all indicate about the same thing, it’s an indication. How you can not see it as an indication as absolutely beyond me.

Sure data from Anet would be preferable. But they won’t give us that data whether they’re successful or not. There’s a reason for this…a business reason. If you give the information when you’re successful and suddenly you’re not, you have to stop giving the information and everyone will then know the game is going down hill. By not giving that information you’re not setting yourself up for possible future failure. You don’t set that kind of precedent, at least smart businesses don’t.

The sites I posted are all independent of each other. It’s extremely likely they have different users. No real reason to use two of those sites.

Therefore, three different independent sources are all saying about the same thing.

We can extrapolate something from that when you add in other facts. The number of people on Guild Wars 2 reddit, the number of people who search for Guild Wars 2 as compared to other games, and the fact that Anet hasn’t had a mass layoff.

Everyone wants to point to individual details but that’s not how one builds a case.

You say I ignore what you said, and didn’t answer. Everything in my response is in other posts in this thread. You’ve ignored my posts…I’ve already answered yours.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Nor is your evidence not bogus just because you say so.

I agree. My evidence is not bogus or bogus based on what I say or what you say. However, if this game was doing so badly, no one seems to be able to answer why all the rest of NcSoft had layoffs and Guild Wars 2 didn’t. Just seems to me that would be a clear indication.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Vayne.8563:

But saying a thread is useless isn’t really helping anyone. It’s not constructive.

If a thread is breaking forum rules, by all means report it. But your opinion on a topic being useless isn’t particularly useful.

The company PR rhetoric is strong in you, I see.

Presenting bogus evidence to counter a wide-spread opinion isn’t helping anyone either. It’s unconstructive at best, and plain misleading at worst.

Obviously Anet won’t be closing threads in their support, even if they’re pure fanfiction.

My evidence isn’t bogus just because you say so. It’s certainly stronger than yours.

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.

The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.

If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.

But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.

We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.

But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.

What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?

This isn’t about whether they leave and may or may not come back, it’s about that people leave for a very perticular reason that should be alarming.
Like you said, people switch products because they got ‘bored’ with one product, and the want the exciting things a new product gives. That’s normal, but when you have a reason this perticular, and it’s not just 1 customer, I would be alarmed.

And like you said, you THINK a gw2 expansion may hit. We don’t know. We are uncertain. I wouldn’t trust my car to someone who may or may not have his drivers license. I would trust my car to someone I know has his driver’s license etc. etc.

The not-knowing where this game is going is already alarming, but hey, that’s their stupid policy.

And I don’t think when a thousand people leave this game, a thousand come back for it. And that is based on personal in-game experience. Like guilds, map chats and the fact megaserver was in introduced to hide the fact that this game is shrinking. And I’m not the only one with this experience.

Except that there are other reasons for a mega server besides shrinking populations. ESO LAUNCHED with a megaserver. It’s more efficient technology. It costs less to run. And it allows more zones to be introduced not leaving others ghost towns.

Like you say, besides. Population IS shrinking in a lot of people minds.
And the fact that you are dodging my other arguments and NOT responds to them, which you normally always do with walls of meaningless counterargements, already says enough.

But people dodge my arguments all the time. People leaving <> population shrinking. That’s one of the biggest misnomers I’ve seen. It doesn’t matter that people leave, that’s my point. People leave games all the time.

And no one has yet given me a good reason why Anet has had zero layoffs when the rest of NCsoft was suffering. That doesn’t sound like a shrinking population or a dying game to me.

Guild Wars 1 gave you 5 bag slots, and the biggest bag you could get/make was 10 slot. I’m not really sure that this is any kind of disadvantage. You get more bag slots here, you can purchase bags from the marketplace from any level or craft them as you level.

In fact, you couldn’t even buy an eight slot bag in Guild Wars 1. There was a five slot pouchbelt and five slot bags you can buy, to which you’d later add a rune of holding, which wasnt’ immediately apparently to new players.

I had as much trouble…even more trouble in Guild Wars 1 keeping my inventory free than I do in Guild Wars 2.

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.

The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.

If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.

But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.

We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.

But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.

What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?

This isn’t about whether they leave and may or may not come back, it’s about that people leave for a very perticular reason that should be alarming.
Like you said, people switch products because they got ‘bored’ with one product, and the want the exciting things a new product gives. That’s normal, but when you have a reason this perticular, and it’s not just 1 customer, I would be alarmed.

And like you said, you THINK a gw2 expansion may hit. We don’t know. We are uncertain. I wouldn’t trust my car to someone who may or may not have his drivers license. I would trust my car to someone I know has his driver’s license etc. etc.

The not-knowing where this game is going is already alarming, but hey, that’s their stupid policy.

And I don’t think when a thousand people leave this game, a thousand come back for it. And that is based on personal in-game experience. Like guilds, map chats and the fact megaserver was in introduced to hide the fact that this game is shrinking. And I’m not the only one with this experience.

Except that there are other reasons for a mega server besides shrinking populations. ESO LAUNCHED with a megaserver. It’s more efficient technology. It costs less to run. And it allows more zones to be introduced not leaving others ghost towns.

laokoko.7403:

I kind of can understand why Vayne spend so much of his time spaming on forums.

Negative forum posts do have an impact on new players and their willingness to try the game.

Maybe Vayne felt he need to neutralize all the negative comments, so it won’t scare new players away.

This is a part of it, but it’s not all of it. It’s not just new players.

Do you know how many people I know who like the game have stopped posting on these forums because of the toxicity?

If we all did it, there’d be no one but the people who complain left. It’s not that everyone is equally disenfranchised. It’s that people hate being called fan boys or being insulted or being called blind. They don’t enjoy it. They’re happy playing game.

Those people I know, no longer have a voice here. But that doesn’t mean their opinions aren’t valid.

Someone should present the other side of the story.

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

I also think there’s not a decent MMO coming out on the horizon and Anet has time to work on an expansion.

It doesn’t have to be a new MMO that could be a ‘danger’, it could also be an existing MMO that actually gave us content.
Yesterday, patch 2.4 in FF14 launched. No expansion, just a ‘regular’ content patch. It gave us a new class. A whole new class. New crafting recipes. Wont type the list here. Expansion announced for spring 2015. People know what road this game is taking, and what to expect. Something to look forward to, like a whole new race and zone.

The thing is, I’m just on a normal populated(in ff14 terms) world, in a normal sized guild. Yesterday, if you would walk around in the city that has the new classes’ guild, you could see it was swarming with new players. Our guild recruited 7 new players yesterday. And guess what? 4 of them had JUST quitted GW2. Reason? Same reason a lot of people complain about. No actual new content here, no new classes, races, weapons, zones, dungeons.. the list goes on and on.

The thing is, like I said before, I’m not on a super populated world, and my guild is’nt super big or something. But the fact that 4 out of 7 players left GW2 for the EXACT same reason says much. I mean really much.

So I don’t think Anet has all the ‘time’ to work on an expansion.

You know what? I recruited four players for my guild on the first day they last time Anet had a half price sale. Look at that, four new players.

It doesn’t matter that people leave this game. Not everyone is willing to pay a sub. Not everyone likes traditional MMOs, and not everyone likes Final Fantasy.

People leave games all the time. Everything is new and shiny.

I’ve had people leave my guild to play FF and come back.

I’m not what you think you’re proving.

The fact that they all left for the same reasons does say alot, whether you like it or not.

I never denied people were leaving for reasons. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to stay where they go either.

The grass is always greener on the other side. I’ve seen people leave for ESO, Wildstar, Neverwinter and FF, and many have come back.

If a thousand people leave this game, and a thousand people start playing it, the game is stable. That’s pretty much what’s happening.

But new players have a lot more content to get through and it takes longer. So they’ll be here longer.

We have a new zone coming out on November 4th (or more of a zone at least). We don’t really know the future.

But I’m thinking an expansion is coming.

What makes you think when that expansion hits, people won’t leave FF to play it?

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

I also think there’s not a decent MMO coming out on the horizon and Anet has time to work on an expansion.

It doesn’t have to be a new MMO that could be a ‘danger’, it could also be an existing MMO that actually gave us content.
Yesterday, patch 2.4 in FF14 launched. No expansion, just a ‘regular’ content patch. It gave us a new class. A whole new class. New crafting recipes. Wont type the list here. Expansion announced for spring 2015. People know what road this game is taking, and what to expect. Something to look forward to, like a whole new race and zone.

The thing is, I’m just on a normal populated(in ff14 terms) world, in a normal sized guild. Yesterday, if you would walk around in the city that has the new classes’ guild, you could see it was swarming with new players. Our guild recruited 7 new players yesterday. And guess what? 4 of them had JUST quitted GW2. Reason? Same reason a lot of people complain about. No actual new content here, no new classes, races, weapons, zones, dungeons.. the list goes on and on.

The thing is, like I said before, I’m not on a super populated world, and my guild is’nt super big or something. But the fact that 4 out of 7 players left GW2 for the EXACT same reason says much. I mean really much.

So I don’t think Anet has all the ‘time’ to work on an expansion.

You know what? I recruited four players for my guild on the first day they last time Anet had a half price sale. Look at that, four new players.

It doesn’t matter that people leave this game. Not everyone is willing to pay a sub. Not everyone likes traditional MMOs, and not everyone likes Final Fantasy.

People leave games all the time. Everything is new and shiny.

I’ve had people leave my guild to play FF and come back.

I’m not what you think you’re proving.

KarlaGrey.5903:

What a pity they will never be able to read all this anti-negativity, because foruming is plain ‘too confusing’.

at vaine, juno gave rock-solid arguments as to why this thread is useless. Just because you chose to ignore them does not make them go away.

Juno expressed an opinion I don’t agree with. But saying a thread is useless isn’t really helping anyone. It’s not constructive. From any given point of view there would be a lot of useless threads.

If a thread is breaking forum rules, by all means report it. But your opinion on a topic being useless isn’t particularly useful.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I know no game will stay around in the long term with such malicious mistreatment and disregard of its playerbase.
The game killed off most of the good will it had built up with the predecessor, and continues to sail in a direction that is quite different to the design choices and goals that attracted a large portion of their past clients. If you believe the NPE will help save the day, or that good will is being built somewhere secretly, then that’s your call.

I, like everyone else here, honestly don’t need to do much to discredit you, as you do that just fine all on your own. In this very thread.

Much like juno stated above, I find this thread completely pointless, other than to argue for argument’s sake.

(it’s also funny how there’s no lock in sight simply because this is a GW2 support thread)

First of all, you calling a thread pointless doesn’t make it so. I’ve felt many of your posts were pointless, but I’ve never said so, because it’s just my opinion. Saying a thread is pointless is your opinion…but it’s not helpful or constructive.

Secondly, not everyone is feeling equally disenfranchised. There are people who are certainly. And it’s extremely possible that that group is larger than it was a year ago. But that doesn’t mean it’s most players. I still think most players are unaware of the stuff that goes on on the forums and on reddit.

I think that the bulk of the playerbase logs in and plays and has a good time or doesn’t.

I also think there’s not a decent MMO coming out on the horizon and Anet has time to work on an expansion.

KarlaGrey.5903:

You merely said you had nothing to add, iirc, unless you posted again after 20th page.
However, as I’m sure you know, by not expressing a voice of agreement, it signals how you are also not in disagreement with it.

I’m just saying what other people are saying anyway.

And contrarians don’t do that.

I try to say stuff that others aren’t saying that I think is correct. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

So am I. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand either.

Except that often the stuff you’re saying completely ignores the topic (as in this case), is actually incorrect, and is often overstated.

I understand that you’re disappointed with the game. I understand you see me as a white knight and will pretty much try to discredit me any way you can.

But it’s not really helping the game, or the topic.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I saw the test of the new interface today and it looks solid to me. (I also happen to think it’s very attractive, but maybe that’s just me. )

The interface and Custom option move into testing now, and the text is already headed to Localization.

The dev team is keenly aware that there are Halloween items available only during a specific period (through November 4) and therefore they intend to do their darnedest to offer the new options in the next few days but certainly in advance of November 4th if humanly possible. (I have confidence this will happen.)

Thank you, Gaile. This is the sort of response that will help. This is the kind of thing Anet should be doing more of over all.

If Anet annouces something and it doesn’t meet the scheduled annoucement, people will be disappointed. But if Anet announces nothing, people will fill in the blanks with a worst case scenario.

I honestly believe it would be better for Anet to release information more regularly, even if some people will take estimates as promises.

I don’t believe most of us are that unfair.

Cross.6437:

Direwolf.8796:

Schwarzseher.9873:

If you can live with almost no new content coming, no real endgame

No endgame? It really baffles me when I hear people say this.

There is TOO much to do! So much so, that i never feel like i can achieve enough in my play sessions.

These are the things that I do in the end game (and its not everything): Living story, dungeons (there’s what 30 different dungeon paths?!), fractals, working on ascended, working on legendaries, doing world events, fighting world bosses, Guild activities, jumping puzzles, PvP arenas, World vs World (including ebg, the 3 BL’s and eotm – which all offer different experiences), going after achievements etc.

Playing WvW for 2 hours straight is satisfying enough and that’s just one thing out of all those others. If I get sick of it, I jump out and do one of the other things.

Unless you’ve got multiple legendaries, full ascended, tens of thousands of AP, high ranks of PvP / WvW, Fractal 50+ level, and have literally experienced every single feature and aspect the game has to offer multiple times over… then I don’t see the argument for no endgame. Those comments should be reworded: “There is a rich endgame but it doesn’t interest me”.

The game is full awesome content and things to do! Thanks Anet

With the exception of Pvp and Wvw, everything you just mentioned boils down to repetition.

Fractals and dungeons don’t change and we haven’t gotten any new ones with decently balanced rewards to make them worth our time. (I’m looking at you, Aether Path). Eventually you’ll get tired of running the same 30 paths. The same is true of guild missions and world events.

Ascendeds and legendaries? They boil down to repeating content for resources or gold.

So, ultimately, the most dynamic end game is limited to game modes requiring pvp interaction, and worse -those game modes haven’t received a significant content update in two years.

Our pve is in need of attention for new repeatable content akin to a dungeon, and our pvp needs a new game mode. Yes, we have an end game, but it is more stagnant than is currently desireable after two years.

What we have is good, but it’s time for more. That’s just the nature of human interest.

A lot of people find PvP and WvW more repetitive and PvE. That’s because there’s so much more variety in PvE. Sure if I did nothing about CoF path 1 over and over again, that would be repetitive. But doing a range of things (in my case including PvP and WvW) makes it so it’s not as repetitive.

I’ve yet to see any MMORPG that has so much content that you don’t have to repeat stuff.

KarlaGrey.5903:

No one would be forced to play challenging content either and yet there you were, arguing how people would feel ‘compelled’ and ‘forced’ to play it just because.

Also, I love to see you admit that you support harmful changes at the player’s expense (simply by abstaining from expressing your opinion on the subject, mind you) , such as is the gem purchase change. It truly speaks volumes.

On a side note, the post about you missing a whole lot was actually aimed at the rl part rather than the forums, but I figured it’d be overboard, so I removed it.

I commented on the gem purchase change and I was against it. So I’d appreciate it if you stop spreading misinformation.

If I see that a topic is being covered fairly, I generally don’t have to add my voice to it, because it’s being handled. I’m just saying what other people are saying anyway.

I try to say stuff that others aren’t saying that I think is correct. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

Conncept.7638:

Vayne.8563:

Conncept.7638:

You are assuming people don’t reach tier six because they can’t. I’ve seen unorganized maps get tier five and come close enough to T6 that is if anybody on the map cared to they could have obtained it.

But they didn’t. Why?

The map is no more fun at tier 6 than at any other tier

It is barely, insignificantly even, more rewarding at tier 6

In short. There isn’t anything to experience at tier 6 that isn’t near exactly the same at every other tier above four, the tier which causes the sand giant and other bosses to spawn. So why bother? It isn’t fun, it isn’t rewarding, and it certainly isn’t impressive.

It is fun, it is rewarding and it is impressive. See how easy that is?

Some people bother because it is fun for them. It’s like people are coming into this thread and telling the OP he shouldn’t be having fun.

What kind of attitude is that?

Nice reading comprehension.

I didn’t say the area isn’t fun, I think its a great addition to the game actually, leaps and bounds better than Southsun and most of the LS. But the simple fact is, there is no tactile or even noticeable difference in gameplay between the tier system once you get above tier four. And because of that, tier 6 is no more enjoyable than tier 4 for anyone that pays attention to anything besides artificial spoon fed progression. Same is same, you don’t proceed from one room, no matter how enjoyable, to a room identical to it save having a different number and expect a new or heightened response compared to the previous room.

It’s not that playing tier 6 is more enjoyable, but getting to it is…for me anyway. Because it does represent a level of challenge. You may not agree, but that doesn’t change the facts.

If you only play for rewards, you might think the rewards aren’t worth it. If you’re only playing to farm, you might think it’s not worth it.

Me, I think it is worth it.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Vayne.8563:

I always look for what’s missing or needed and do that bit. That’s what I’ve done all my life.

Well, it would appear you’ve ‘missed’ a whole lot in that search of yours.

Vayne.8563:

very little credit given when credit is due.

Yea that gem shop rip-off is truly a nugget of design brilliance. Much like the NEP and the trait redesign!

Oh good, more off topic stuff that doesn’t change a word I’ve said.

Of course I’ve missed stuff. You can’t find everything. Logic should tell you that.

I don’t think anyone needs to spend money in the gem store to play this game…maybe you should check out some really invasive gem stores and then comment.

To those who claim no one is saying the game is dying, here’s a post from another thread by Gimp:

How to fix grind wars gamble sim 2:
1) copy GW1
2) profit lol
Merge all your dead servers ANet, I can’t even WvW on mine. You aren’t fooling anyone with your megaserver, the game is dying no doubt.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I said, and this is where the reading bit comes in: “if EVERYONE on these forums was saying the game was great.”

Ah, so it just requires everyone. Well, since everyone on this forum doesn’t say the game sucks, your so called “balance” isn’t required.

You can stop being a contrarian, now.

Vayne.8563:

I always look for what’s missing or needed and do that bit. That’s what I’ve done all my life.

So you’re a contrarian.

Vayne.8563:

Right now, there’s balance missing from these forums.

It’s hilarious that you believe this.

Vayne.8563:

Too many willing to complain about the littlest stuff, with very little credit given when credit is due.

Credit is never “due” because credit being “due” is completely subjective, as the credit itself is subjective.

Vayne.8563:

That’s not really a contrarian, no matter what you say.

adjective
adjective: contrarian

1.
opposing or rejecting popular opinion; going against current practice.

You are very much a contrarian on these forums. And worse yet, you’re not doing it because you believe in any of it. You’re doing it because a “balance is needed”.

But I’m not going against public opinion simple because it’s public opinion. I’m going against what I consider to be unfair, and in that sense, I’m not being contrary.

If I was, why would I agree with the complaints against the new trait system. I agree with those because I believe them to be fair…some of them aren’t fairly expressed, but there’s not much point in arguing those, because the it wouldn’t help anyone.

However, arguing against people who are saying the game is dying makes sense, because it’s not.

Conncept.7638:

You are assuming people don’t reach tier six because they can’t. I’ve seen unorganized maps get tier five and come close enough to T6 that is if anybody on the map cared to they could have obtained it.

But they didn’t. Why?

The map is no more fun at tier 6 than at any other tier

It is barely, insignificantly even, more rewarding at tier 6

In short. There isn’t anything to experience at tier 6 that isn’t near exactly the same at every other tier above four, the tier which causes the sand giant and other bosses to spawn. So why bother? It isn’t fun, it isn’t rewarding, and it certainly isn’t impressive.

It is fun, it is rewarding and it is impressive. See how easy that is?

Some people bother because it is fun for them. It’s like people are coming into this thread and telling the OP he shouldn’t be having fun.

What kind of attitude is that?

I’m not sure I understand the OP.

Disabling map chat to see Guild Chat where? Guild Wars 1 had completely different tabs for different chats.

Edit: If you’re saying what I think you’re saying, you can set it up here the same way it was in Guild Wars 1.

Bellizare.5816:

Vayne.8563:

I love the ambrite weapon skins. That’s a reason to farm it for me.

Yes Vayne. So it is not boring for you.

I could care less about ambrite weapon skins, so Dry Top is not where you will find me.

Just because you love farming Dry Top, it does not follow that everyone else will feel the same way.

But if one were to find fulfillment in farming Dry Top, I believe that doing so in an organized group would yield superior results.

Actually it’s not boring for me anyway, because I don’t play to farm. I play to enjoy myself and I find it enjoyable.

I don’t actually farm at all. I play Dry Top when I feel like doing it. If I were farming it, I’d have had all those weapons already.

The people who farm it burn out fast. The people who just play it for enjoyment are less likely to.

Ari it takes like an hour to get to level 10. I’m not sure what your problem is.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

But if everyone on these forums was saying the game was amazing, I’d be pointing out the flaws. It’s called balance.

The forum needs more of it.

Oh, so you’re a contrarian.

Good to know.

Only if what’s being said is grossly overstated or demonstrably false.

You just said that you’d be pointing out flaws if the forums were positive.

You’re a contrarian.

That’s all there is to it.

I said, and this is where the reading bit comes in: “if EVERYONE on these forums was saying the game was great.”

Obviously that would be a huge overstatement. No one would be pointing out flaws. I always look for what’s missing or needed and do that bit. That’s what I’ve done all my life.

Right now, there’s balance missing from these forums. Too many willing to complain about the littlest stuff, with very little credit given when credit is due.

That’s not really a contrarian, no matter what you say.