Guild Wars 2

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

I’m sure, in the fullness of time, something will be done. It took WoW a very long time to get to their solution. I’m not thinking this is a number one priority for Anet.

Well the market is different now, ANet doesn’t have 8 years to come up with a solution. I don’t even think they have 1 more year. Some games like ESO have the solution before launch. To me it should be a priority, because getting new players into the game should be the number 1 priority.

Listen to you. ESO will be out in like a years time. And it’s going to be flawless at launch and everyone will love it, and it won’t be buggy and it won’t have any problems, so everyone will go there.

Anet has time because all MMOs need time to find their feet. And ESO is going to be subscription and console. I’m not thinking this is going to be a major issue for Guild Wars 2. A lot of people won’t pay a sub for any reason. I think people are putting too much into ESO. It’ll be another SWToR if I don’t miss my guess. It’ll never live up to the hype any more than GW 2 did.

They have other things to work on. Lists of them. If they get that stuff down, the game will be in a much better place to hold into people in the future. The first thing they have to get going is the China launch, because that’s most important. Then with the cash from that, you should start seeing some more improvements.

But I don’t believe the sky is falling. All this stuff takes time. They just came out with an LFG tool and that was, in my opinion, more important. Other things will be be added as time goes on, but this whole, they must do this now or they’re in trouble thing is just not true in my opinion.

Someone hasn’t played SAB. lol

Draco.2806:

…I have no idea what you just said.

You basically said you had to ignore things you don’t like and make your own game inside the game to have fun. And no one should have to do that.

But there are things added for other player’s play styles that they are enjoying, even getting ascended gear, because some people like crafting and crafting before had no meaning.

Prior to this it was THOSE people who had to make their own game to enjoy it. You’re making it sound like no one should have to. If they made the perfect game for you, I guarantee you someone would feel they had to play a different game to enjoy it. We all enjoy different things. That’s just how it works.

I’m sure, in the fullness of time, something will be done. It took WoW a very long time to get to their solution. I’m not thinking this is a number one priority for Anet.

Justdeifyme.9387:

You don’t get money for attention to detail soooo…

I think there’s probably more attention to detail in this game than any other MMO I’ve ever played. Worst comment ever. Yes, some skins have been recycled. Because companies run out of time to produce everything new. But the amount of attention to detail in this game (down to the charr sleeping under the bridge in LA who changes every couple of days), is pretty epic.

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

First WoW is 8 years old. Almost all 8 year old games lose players, so comparing a new game to WoW can be counter productive.

Secondly, if you guest to TC, even if you’re on highly populated Blackgate, you will find more people in lower level zones. Why? Because it’s the RP server and a lot of RPers have a zillion alts. Most RP doesn’t take place in high level zones.

Again, the solution is there. There are people in TC in the Sylvari starting areas, one of the most popular RP races.

Your solution is picking one server? What happens to the other servers if they aren’t getting new players?

I’m saying for low level zones the solution is there. That’s all. As you pointed out, once you get to higher levels you can go to most servers.

Draco.2806:

A great and brutal summary of some of my own feelings towards this game.

Quite honestly I still miss my WoW trial. I know I’d have to put up with all the same crap and more and even worse even if I had the money to waste on subscription and leveling there, but just like in GW2, you can still play against type – you can have fun just running around and doing whatever. Annoying, sure, but you can just ignore the grind and the dumb parts if you like. You shouldn’t have to. You really… Shouldn’t have to…

You shouldn’t have to invent your own game inside another game to have fun. Seriously.

But you want the people who love chasing achievements and don’t like running around zones having fun your way to make their own game and make more challenging stuff and make more achievements to go after. Or the people who want to work to better gear, they should make their game.

Sure no one should have to do anything in any MMO to have fun…but since everyone’s definition of what is fun is different and since there are people having fun with the new content, I’m not sure what your point is.

If they did it your way, other people would have to “invent their own games inside this game” to have fun.

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

Well, Anet has a solution with guesting. I mean if you guest to a busier server, you’ll see more people. It’s logical. People don’t want to use the solution already there, they want yet another solution.

Just so you know, I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. I learned a long time ago the best thing for an MMO is just stating your honest opinion. Because it is better for the long term health of an MMO. Instead of sweeping issues under the rug.

I have two GW2 accounts, this one is an alt. I had a level 30ish on ET which is a low populated server. So I deleted that character and moved to Blackgate and created a character (Sylvari). And I still rarely see people while leveling. I know Blackgate is booming with people at max level, but not in low levels.

I just wish they do some type of connected realm thing with all their servers. So if there is even 1-2 players in low level areas per server, if they are all combined it would be 40-50 players. I just think it is better for the game and its future.

People quit MMOs all the time, but if you don’t bring in new players you will decline. WoW recently said in the past they were able to bring more new players in than they were losing players. But that isn’t the case anymore which is why they lost so many of their players.

First WoW is 8 years old. Almost all 8 year old games lose players, so comparing a new game to WoW can be counter productive.

Secondly, if you guest to TC, even if you’re on highly populated Blackgate, you will find more people in lower level zones. Why? Because it’s the RP server and a lot of RPers have a zillion alts. Most RP doesn’t take place in high level zones.

Again, the solution is there. There are people in TC in the Sylvari starting areas, one of the most popular RP races.

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

They said it was a rise after the post launch slump. So the player base could have gone down 60% post launch and from there on in it stabilized. We won’t know exactly what the number is.

No. they said it recently and the dev I spoke to said it’s been a consistent rise, particularly on patch days. People are playing.

I’m not talking about an old quote. I’m talking about a conversation I had with a dev (wearing his Anet tag) just a few days ago. The same dev said the dragons in Arah story mode look dorky. lol

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

You’re 100% right. It is a problem for all MMOs, even the biggest most successful ones. Many of the mid level zones in WoW are empty, on a lot of the servers. Why? Because there’s very little reason for people to be there.

Exactly, and you know what WoW did? They found a solution to the problem. With CRZ then Connected Realms. After Connected Realms you can go to any zone at any level and see players because they basically “Merged Servers” and gave a pretty name to it.

ESO is going to do the same thing and will have a solution before launch.

GW2 and other MMOs need to do the same thing. Because WoW realized there is a reason they lost almost half their subscribers. And they fixed that problem. Putting it under a rug doesn’t make it go away.

ANet has the tech to do it, we see it with their guesting feature. They just need to enact it.

Well, Anet has a solution with guesting. I mean if you guest to a busier server, you’ll see more people. It’s logical. People don’t want to use the solution already there, they want yet another solution.

Kids today. I’m sure 10 year olds aren’t the ones offended by such language. lol

eisberg.2379:

haviz.1340:

Vayne.8563:

Except that Factions and Prophecies together had less content than Guild Wars 2 at launch. Nice try though.

I’m sure pvp in gw2 is blooming thanks to all that content we have.

Developers stated that Guild Wars 2 now has more people playing GW2 PvP than they ever had playing PvP in the history of GW1, and Guild Wars 2 hasn’t even released in places like China and Korea, where as Guild Wars 1 did. So yeah, PvP is booming comparatively.

Have they said that? I missed that.

Yeah, I’m a PVe’er so naturally my comments are geared toward PvE and might not have any relevance to PvP at all.

If they took all the PvP out of this game, it wouldn’t adversely affect my experience in the slightest (not that I don’t want to see a healthy PvP population…I just personally don’t enjoy it).

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

People stop playing…how many people? I’m pretty sure Anet has numbers (in fact I know they have, I talked to a dev in game recently and unless he was lying, they have numbers).

Concurrency is up. More players are returning. Some people will leave, but name an MMO that never loses anyone.

Without knowing the numbers, we can’t know what kind of problem this really is.

You can’t question someone elses claim to playerbase going down because of lack of anyone outside the devs knowing and then claim fact that its going up and people are returning while lacking the same information.

MMO’s always have a turnaround rate of players. Neither of you know whether its up or down, or what the reasons for either case are, so neither can claim either case.

Unless you want to call the devs liars, you can. The devs have said straight out concurrency is on the rise. I believe them from my own observations.

Some people are coming back, some people are new from the free weekend, and of course, some people have left. No different than any other MMO.

The thing is, I met a dev casually in game and talked to him for a long time. And he was talking about things that maybe Anet wouldn’t have wanted him to, so I don’t get the idea he was just giving me a company line, and he told me that they’re really stoked about how well the concurrency is doing. But he also said enough negative stuff about stuff he’s specifically working on to make me feel he wasn’t just handing me a line.

Xcom.1926:

Vayne.8563:

When you add into that the fact that some people are running dungeons now that there’s a new looking for group tool, and that some people are in PvP and some people are in WvW (another form of PvP), and that there are five starting zones and multiple servers, I think you can see why there might not be people where you are.

That is true, but it is still a problem. Not just GW2 but all MMOs. Just because there is a reasoning for why it happens doesn’t make it ok. You won’t get new players if they feel the world feels empty.

I hope ANet does something like what WoW did, in terms of “Connected Realms”. Let all the lower level zones become one. This way when a new player joins the game he sees players while leveling.

Which is why when ANet did the free trials this week, I was hoping they limit it to a couple of servers, so the world feels booming for these new players. And the leveling experience feels so much better. But unfortunately they didn’t.

You’re 100% right. It is a problem for all MMOs, even the biggest most successful ones. Many of the mid level zones in WoW are empty, on a lot of the servers. Why? Because there’s very little reason for people to be there.

With downscaling at least there’s reasons to go back. Some people will go back to the 15-25 zones now (they seem busier) because they need softwood and iron for their ascended weapons. It’s entirely possible that the OP will see more people for that reason in the 15-25 zones than the 1-15 zones.

But yes, it’s a problem with all MMOs. We all want big sprawling worlds, but we also want people around all the time. These two desires are simply incompatible.

That’s why Anet uses mechanisms in game that act as traffic control.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vayne.8563:

An idea or concept is not a “plan”. A plan is something very specific. Some writers write with outlines…that’s a plan for what you write. Piers Anthony outlines everything to the letter. Some writers write from the seat of their pants. Stephen King does this. It’s talked about in his book On Writing. He often has no idea where a story will go.

Having an idea or concept is not the same as a plan. Why do you think so many people call the manifesto a lie? It wasn’t a “plan” it was a concept.

I think we simply disagree on what a ‘plan’ or ‘roadmap’ is precisely.

Plan:
“A plan is typically any diagram or list of steps with timing and resources, used to achieve an objective.”

“a set of actions that have been thought of as a way to do or achieve something”

“something that a person intends to do”

I believe Anet has something like this, based on the definitions above. It doesn’t have to be insanely complex, and it doesn’t have to be for the next 5 years even; however, I can easily see them having mapped out what they want to achieve and push out to us over the course of the next year. They’ve obviously mapped out what they want to achieve over the 6 months of July through December…Colin spelled it out to us in a blog. (Considering how fluid the game and development markets are, I consider 6 months to be a ‘long’ term)

It’s the difference between the verb plan and the noun plan.

I plan to do something. That’s a verb and not very specific.

Let’s draw up a plan. Do they have a plan? That’s very different than planning to do something.

The problem is when people say someone has a plan in an industry that changes fast, what they really have is an intention. It’s a whole lot less than a plan. You can plan for lots of stuff….but it’s very tenuous. A plan makes it sound like something solid. And this is the problem that’s been going on for ages now.

Anet says something and people think it’s a promise. They use the word promise. Anet promised there would be no vertical progression. Well, no, Anet said there wouldn’t and the situation seems to have changed.

They’ve said over and over again they iterate stuff. They change stuff. This is not unusual at all with artists and the game is made my artists. That’s why the whole logic thing doesn’t always seem to fly. They’re trying new stuff, they’re experimenting, they’re iterating.

Now, how does the oft used word iteration mesh with the word plan?

If they have a plan of what to do, but it’s going to change and they’re not going to stick to that plan, how is that not the same as not having a plan at all. I could rephrase I suppose. They have no plans that are solid enough to announce and no plans that are likely to play out. I really think they have brainstorming meetings, someone comes up with an idea and they hash it out and think, yes, that’s good.

In fact, I know that’s how they work because I read that’s how they work. Which would make the idea of long term plans tenuous at best.

There’s a lot of stuff to do in this game…but more specifically, there’s a lot of stuff to do in this game that takes you out of the open world.

Every two weeks, we get new living story content. This particular month has been SAB (Super Adventure Box in Rata Sum), which is an instance and keeps people out of the world and The new Tequatl the Sunless fight, which is in a high level area. Because that’s the current “content of the month”, that’s where people are trying to get specific achievements.

When you add into that the fact that some people are running dungeons now that there’s a new looking for group tool, and that some people are in PvP and some people are in WvW (another form of PvP), and that there are five starting zones and multiple servers, I think you can see why there might not be people where you are.

What server are you on and what race did you choose to start?

Aye.8392:

Vayne.8563:

The living story content, usually anyway, takes a day or two. You have two weeks to do it. If you’re really stressed about it, follow the Dulfy guide and it’s usually pretty fast.

But more, they’ve been tailoring the living story lately to have various goals. For example…I didn’t bother as much with the Queen’s Gauntlet and stayed with the Jubilee achievment. At the end I got the meta for the Queens’ Gauntlet too, without even facing Liadri.

They’re making it so that most people CAN get the achievements.

Most recently they have dailies that count to the meta.

It’s easier now to get the meta than it’s ever been.

They do have dailies that count to the meta now, but they don’t have enough achievements without those dailies to get the meta reward item. It is only easier to get the achievements if you sign in a few times during the week. For people that only get to play one day a week it means that it’s not only difficult to get, it’s impossible.

So… oftentimes people stop playing. Whether they stomp away in disgust or just wander away because of the “why bother” feeling doesn’t really matter. They’re still gone. It used to be that I could sign in once a week and play for six hours and still have a good sense of accomplishment. That isn’t possible anymore. The time gates on the living story achievements, the crafting, the gathering, gear attainment — those have all definitely driven my desire to play way down.

People stop playing…how many people? I’m pretty sure Anet has numbers (in fact I know they have, I talked to a dev in game recently and unless he was lying, they have numbers).

Concurrency is up. More players are returning. Some people will leave, but name an MMO that never loses anyone.

Without knowing the numbers, we can’t know what kind of problem this really is.

Plenty of stuff in Guild Wars 2 needs work.

1. Build variety…there’s not enough of it for some professions
2. How ranger pets act/behave/survive in dungeons
3. Too much RNG in precisely the wrong places…stuff like precusors
4. Not enough quests that make you think…everything is spoon fed…well most stuff
5. Too much emphasis on achievements, which is good in some ways but really bad in others
6. The marketplace needs better sorts (you should be able to sort armor on heavy, medium and light for example).
7. Little, useless inconveniences, like way point placement in some dungeons. There’s no reason to make someone run back such huge distances, now that you can port while in combat.
8. Story mode dungeons need to unlock explorable mode dungeons on every character…it’s too hard to get groups for story mode dungeons

I’m sure there are more, these are the ones off the top of my head.

It’s not a game for everyone, as can be seen by these forums, that much I can tell you, but it’s positioned well for someone like me.

Glad you’re enjoying it again.

On the topic of skins and missing skins…this is one of my favorite parts of the living story. In most games, everyone can get the same stuff so everyone has the same stuff. If you are the type of guy who must have that skin and only that skin, sure I can see why you’d be upset…but on the other hand, there’s always another skin around the corner. How many skins can you really use. I have too many already, for a lot of my stuff anyway.

There are enough skins in this game to find a look you want. And if you can get that special skin, more power to you. But this way, different people are actually wearing different stuff and as time goes on, that will get more and more obvious.

Two, three years from now, some of the old back pieces will be vintage and cool to have. But during that time, there’ll be tons of other skins to acquire. You can’t wear them ALL.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Eurhetemec.9052:

Vayne.8563:

This is a genre that changes very quickly. Companies have to think and adapt on their feet. Whatever plan they have unquote is a guideline because they’re guessing.

That’s why things seem to change all the time. Because they’re changing all the time.

I don’t always agree with Vayne, but he’s spot-on here.

Blizzard are a good example. They have moderate-to-long-term plans in terms of where they want to go plot and location-wise (i.e. “fluff”), vague ones, in their games, but their plans for mechanics, or for nearer-term content? Those change absolutely constantly, by their own admission.

This is a large part of their success. Another game comes up with a good idea? Well, WoW’s development is agile enough that they can steal it, rather than remaining tied to ultra-specific plans. You can see this too in how they virtually rebuild the game every expansion – accounting for changes in the world of MMOs, for what’s fun and what isn’t, and so on.

I mean, they’ve done 180s, they’ve delayed stuff they wanted to do for years and years, they’ve changed course countless times, and I’m pretty sure that’s helped them.

I expect that things are similar at ArenaNet. They have longer-term plans regarding fluff and story, and so on (I hope!), but only shorter-term ones with mechanical stuff. With games like TESO and WildStar on the way, they will undoubtedly need to adapt, and to move rapidly.

That said, not planning to do expansions is a fairly big deal – if they change their mind on that it will not be trivial to reverse course on it, because you need multiple teams working on an expansion for months or years. So I wouldn’t anticipate an expansion any time soon.

Vayne says they have no long term plans. Essentally they ‘cant’ because of how the industry works, and you agree…. Then go on to state that WoW has “moderate-to-long-term plans in terms of where they want to go plot and location-wise” as an example? That’s actually a direct contradiction of what Vayne was saying.

Yes, no plan is set in stone, but I’m sure Anet has “plans” for where they want to go; how they want to story to play out, what maps they are opening up and possible a rough ‘when.’

An idea or concept is not a “plan”. A plan is something very specific. Some writers write with outlines…that’s a plan for what you write. Piers Anthony outlines everything to the letter. Some writers write from the seat of their pants. Stephen King does this. It’s talked about in his book On Writing. He often has no idea where a story will go.

Having an idea or concept is not the same as a plan. Why do you think so many people call the manifesto a lie? It wasn’t a “plan” it was a concept.

I think some of the core stuff is done right.

1. No mob tagging. No node stealing. That’s awesome stuff. Everyone gets credit for a kill, everyone has a chance to get loot if they meet the damage threshold.

2. The fact that everyone can rez is awesome. It makes some hard encounters interesting. We did a 26th level fractal today with someone who didn’t have enough AR, but we kept them rezzed and fighting when they missed a dodge. It makes the game interesting.

3. The downed state…for Pve anyway, I love this. It gives you a fighting chance, and sometimes, you can make that dramatic come back.

4. Mesmers. I just love this profession.

5. Guild Puzzles and Guild Rushes

6. Ambient sound in the cities. I’ve caught some great conversations….and the cities themselves. Great places to explore.

7. Overflow servers. Having spent hours in queues in Rift, I welcome this. I love guesting as well, even though I know it can cause problems.

8. No trinity. Again, I know some people love the trinity, but I’ve always disliked it. I keep thinking about how boring Lord of the Rings would have been if everyone only attacked Boromir and Gandalf healed him.

There’s more I’m sure, but this is a good start.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vayne.8563:

Do you really think Anet has ANY long term plans? Cause I’ve seen no evidence of it. They seem to be flying by the seat of their pants. That’s why it looks like they’re lying sometimes. Because they just sort of see what happens and rolls with it.

Doesn’t work out a lot. lol

Yes, they have long term plans. As someone who claims to have run/managed a business you should know how this stuff works. Typical business plans include both short, and long term “road maps” and goals to help keep things on track and running smoothly. Considering I ran my own hobby business for years, this is something I am aware of.

Additionally, Colin has told us repeatedly that they have plans laid out well in advance. 6 months ago he told us they had the next years worth of content already planned. At PAX, he said they have a roadmap and that they plan on following it. Beyond that, we have been getting the “next 6 months expectations” blogs, and nothing has been said that we won’t get another come Jan/Feb.

Now, does that mean that everything is set in stone? Lol, nope. Nothing ever works out precisely as planned, life isn’t perfect that way.

I don’t think they have long term plans. I think they have ideas. I’ve seen some very successful businesses run by the seat of their pants. Hell, MY business was run without much of a plan. That is to say, we sold stuff that we could make a profit on…and that was the plan. But I didn’t have any deep cache of lore to go to to run the business I ran, because computers changed too fast to figure out that stuff anyway. Your plan was to look at what everyone else was doing and adapt on the fly. Some plan.

Yes, I ran a business. Until I saw what the competition did, particularly the big guys, I couldn’t devise a survival strategy. You know, pharmacies started selling printers. Why would someone buy a printer from me, when they could get it cheaper next door. I had no business plan for that, because I didn’t realize that would happen till it did, and I had to react.

This is a genre that changes very quickly. Companies have to think and adapt on their feet. Whatever plan they have unquote is a guideline because they’re guessing.

That’s why things seem to change all the time. Because they’re changing all the time.

The “core” game is basically the same. There have been several additions since then, including a new dungeon, Fractals of the Mists, a redone version of Ascalon Catacombs, several new minigames which are on a rotation, a redone Tequatl the Sunless dragon encounter, guild missions, a currency wallet for different currencies, and a bunch of other stuff, including the recent introduction of ascended weapons.

I’m not sure what you mean by behind. If you’re the kind of guy that must have BIS gear, you’ll certainly feel behind for a while…but 99% of the content can be done in easily attainable gear. The rest of it can be attained by playing various parts of the game. Some people consider it a grind, some don’t.

My recommendation is to find a guild of like minded players and join in. It’s a great way to learn what’s going on. The forums, by contrast, are a pretty bad way. lol

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

The problem with DEs is simple. No matter how many of them you have, eventually players do them all, and they’re bored again. You’ve seen every DE you do a few times…they’re all relatively repetitive (because there really are only so many quest types) and you’re bored again.

I think they developers are very talented at what they do, even if they’re wasting those talents with the Living Story. I’d be willing to bet they could have thought of something to make the Dynamic Event system more appealing to players had they taken the time to address the situation rather than hit the panic button with a new tier of gear.

Suppose precursors were made craftable, but required a rare crafting material that only dropped from Dynamic Events. Then suppose that item only dropped from a randomly determined, undisclosed Dynamic Event and only that Dynamic Event. Only players who earned gold in that event get the material. Then a new Dynamic Event is randomly chosen and the process repeats.

I don’t know if that would have actually got players out doing DEs across all zones, but I suspect it would have done more to increase DE popularity than abandoning them altogether (as the developers seem to have done) If I can come up with that, imagine what the talented professionals at ArenaNet could have come up with had they put their minds to it.

My comments weren’t about vertical progression or ascended gear. They were about the living story in general. Different stuff in different months. Someone had brought up that more DEs were the answer and I don’t think they are (as much as I’d like them) that’s all.

I’m NOT in favor of vertical progression. But companies often use solutions they know will work when a lot of money is on the line. It’s what I’d do in the same situation. It’s what I’ve done in the past. A gamble is a good thing, as long as you’re not betting your future on it. But if you can’t afford to lose, you don’t bet.

Did Anet panic? I think so. But I’m not sure if they didn’t panic they might not have come to the same decision.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Karizee.8076:

There’s actually more people playing now than at launch. Sorry your guild failed.

vayne, is that you?

Nope, I’d have said something completely different. I have seen so many guilds fail in so many MMOs over time, even the most popular MMOs. I’ve seen them fail in Guild Wars 1, I’ve seen them fail in WoW. My guess is most guilds fail in most MMOs, so the fact that your guild has probably is down to the normal stuff that makes guilds fail. Of course, I don’t know you at all, so I could be wrong.

Karizee is far more polite than I am. lol

The problem with DEs is simple. No matter how many of them you have, eventually players do them all, and they’re bored again. You’ve seen every DE you do a few times…they’re all relatively repetitive (because there really are only so many quest types) and you’re bored again.

So Anet thought what can we do to make the world more alive? It would take them ages to program enough DEs to make any kind of dent in the world and they’re be done and dusted in no time. It’s a bad investment in time and money…particularly because not everyone even likes/wants DEs (even though I personally do).

So they say how can we make it so that each time someone logs in there really is something else to do. As much as people might say DEs can do that, I say they can’t. How long can you stay in one zone before experiencing every single DE? Have some spawn hardly ever? So people camp them like the old Everquest boss camps? For what reward?

The living story isn’t a perfect solution…but then again, they’re only really just starting with it. As time goes on, I expect more and more from it. It’s still in its infancy. It’s a new “type” of content. People need to give it time to let it grow.

And people have complained about permanent content. Well Tequatl is new permanent content and now we’ll have a new Twilight Arbor path that’s permanent.

And who knows what two weeks from now will bring.

That’s the real excitement, to me, of the living story. It’s like going to a buffet. You’re not going to like everything on offer, but as time passes, surely you’ll like some of the stuff.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

Really? Its still the same thing though. If they add another gear after Ascended, say, with another ‘minor’ stat boost of 10%, then another tier after that…..its still vertical and will still divide players as the stat difference from exotic to whatever the current tier may be gets larger and larger. Just because they’re doing it in smaller increments doesn’t mean it’s not there or gets to be called something else.
Its like your power company throwing a power rate increases at you – suddenly hike the bill by $200 in one shot or by increasing the bill by $10 over time so they can claim its better than the other company who does it in one shot.

Unless the older stuff becomes so easy to get that everyone has it…which is doable.

Everyone sees vertical progression and they think full on gear treadmill…cause that’s how everyone else has done it.

If you guys can’t see the difference between this and other MMOs, I’m not really sure what else I can say about it.

This is what I originally thought ANet was going to do. Let grinders get the gear early and then open up more paths for the rest of us. But this isn’t what they’ve done.

Instead, they’ve used Ascended gear as a carrot to get people to do stuff they don’t otherwise want to do. You can see all ascended gear since rings as an effort to spread people throughout the world (when they obviously don’t want to).

First dailies were suppose to spread people around the world, but people just completed them other ways or hung out in the appropriate 1-15 zones for a quick fix. The mid level zones were desolate. Now with the ore and wood requirements you have to go into the mid level zones (or someone does).

I don’t think this is going to change. If anything armor will reinforce this.

I’m not sure what you think isn’t changing. They’re doing exactly what I thought they’d do.

First they come out with ascended rings and stuff that only fractal runners could get. Then they made them so you could get them with dailies and such. Anyone who cared about that stuff, should have had it by now, surely. Rings and amulets are pretty easy to get.

Which brings us now to weapons. Sure they’re hard to get. They’re like rings when they first came out. It’s like some people spent a couple of grand on a VCR and a few years later everyone could afford them.

So Anet comes out with these weapons and makes them hard to get. Only the people who REALLY want them really care. But eventually, if they do come out with something else, they’ll make these much easier to get. It’s always going to be the older tier that’s easier to get.

The only trick is to make it so you can always do the content with the older tier (which you can).

As long as that remains, I think they’re handling it okay.

To be sure, I’d personally prefer a game with only cosmetic progression, but that ship has sailed. To be precise it sailed last November.

I have enough ascended rings at the moment for my next three or four 80s. I get earrings from doing guild missions. This stuff really isn’t that hard to get.

But the weapons are. As long as I don’t need them…I don’t care…and why should I? So I can have a BIS weapon? So I can save two minutes or a 12 minute dungeon run?

It’s very much like people who have to buy the absolutely top of the line computer. They pay a lot more and six months later it’s 30% cheaper.

I can wait the six months.

marnick.4305:

Blackmoon.6837:

I played this game because it was a breathe of fresh air. It was fun to explore the world and finish my storyline, try dungeons for the first time and get a taste of what there was. Yet now that I’ve gotten my share of the gameplay, my whole perspective changed without me recognizing it until too late. My focus on GW2 became a constant, almost robotic, effort to keep my AP high and get the top gear so I could prance around with cool armor etc.

Yet is that really why I enjoy this game? So I can waste all of my time on something that’s actually 100% irrelevant and does nothing but promote my ego? Sure I understand the sense of pride and enjoyment from “winning”, yet it feels so stereotypical and even deceptive when the primary focus is achievements and not gameplay.

The whole point of traditional MMOs is to cater to people who can’t win in Real Life. If you won Real Life, MMOs should be played just like you play Mass Effect and Resident Evil (awesome games). Moderation is key which goes just as much for Guild Wars as anything in life.

Some people get lost in the achievement and armor hunt, but that says more about their Real Lives (or lack thereof) than the game. Since it doesn’t give you any joy, just don’t do it Play GW2 the way you’d play any other videogame and you’ll be just fine. GW2 actually allows for that playstyle.

I don’t know. I think I’ve achieved quite a bit in real life, but I still like getting achievements. Mind you, I’m at a point in life where I have lots of free time, but seldom all at one time. I need a game that I can play a bit, break a bit, play a bit.

One of the reasons I spend so much time on the forums. I can do it in five or ten minute intervals, pretty much at any time I have some time available. Much of the time it’s not enough time to do a whole lot of stuff…but most Guild Wars 2 achievements can be done relatively quickly.

And it’s a kitten good way to distract yourself from physical pain.

MrRuin.9740:

Vayne.8563:

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

Really? Its still the same thing though. If they add another gear after Ascended, say, with another ‘minor’ stat boost of 10%, then another tier after that…..its still vertical and will still divide players as the stat difference from exotic to whatever the current tier may be gets larger and larger. Just because they’re doing it in smaller increments doesn’t mean it’s not there or gets to be called something else.
Its like your power company throwing a power rate increases at you – suddenly hike the bill by $200 in one shot or by increasing the bill by $10 over time so they can claim its better than the other company who does it in one shot.

Unless the older stuff becomes so easy to get that everyone has it…which is doable.

Everyone sees vertical progression and they think full on gear treadmill…cause that’s how everyone else has done it.

If you guys can’t see the difference between this and other MMOs, I’m not really sure what else I can say about it.

Skan.5301:

haviz.1340:

Skan.5301:

Yes, long, long BEFORE that interview.

Manifesto was also long, long before November 2012.

And how much of that came to reality in the game?

And Vayne, come on man. Are you really going to stay a fanboy for life and never enter the rational thought process?

Why would they work on an expansion when the Living Story is what they’re focused on?

They’ll work on an expansion when it’s financially beneficial for them to do so, pretty much like EVERY MMO on the planet.

My guess is after the Chinese version is out for a reasonable amount of time…and not until.

People are willing to say Anet lies and can’t be trusted, until they say something you want to believe. lol

MikaHR.1978:

5+ for the effort, but since ANet doesnt take feedback its wasted.

And you are wrong if you think theres no direction for GW2. Its headed for the east and will get same tratement in the west like other NCSoft games (Aion/Lineage)

Oh, and for the poster above, there are so few new players incoming that its not really a concern

Few players? Like the new sales that will come from China? lol

Mathias.9657:

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

And still people laugh at me when I say GW2 is a billion times more grindy than WoW. Clueless dolts… ANet and its players needs to wake up, this game is essentially a korean grind F2P MMO as it stands. There is little difference, I may as well go play Aion or any other free MMO on the market with ridiculous cash shops and RNG everywhere and everything. And before you tell me to quit, I have. My last post was 2 months ago, I came back to see how the game is doing and ANet have done literally nothing.

I don’t know. I’ve played Aion. I don’t remember getting best in slot weapons in a week or two. Maybe I’m nuts.

Oh no I wasn’t saying that, Aion was grindy as hell, not sure how it is nowadays though. I played it on launch and even leveling was ridiculous. But hey, nice to see my favorite fanboi is still around

Edit: I just got what you’re saying, I thought you were saying Aion wasn’t grindy. We both know what I’m talking about when it comes to GW2 grind though. I’m not gonna go in circles with you.

To me it’s different, because if I don’t grind, I can still do all the content, except for the highest level fractals.

In Aion it was quite different if you recall.

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

Meglobob.8620:

when is the first guild wars 2 expansion coming out?

From what we have been told NEVER, there is never, ever going to be a expansion.

Living story updates every 2 weeks thou, instead…

They never said they’d never have an expansion? Why say so?

“ArenaNet’s lead content designer Mike Zadorojny recently went on record puncturing that particular balloon, saying that if the team manages these updates correctly, it will “probably never do an expansion and everything will be going into this Living World strategy.”"

GW2 might never have an expansion – Massively

It’s basically saying at first there will not be an expansion, then they realized “Oh kitten, we kittened up by saying that!” and they went back and said “Nah, we’re working on it.” Everyone knows they aren’t. LS is where they’ll stay.

They’ve said long long before that interview…

Yes, long, long BEFORE that interview.

Do you really think Anet has ANY long term plans? Cause I’ve seen no evidence of it. They seem to be flying by the seat of their pants. That’s why it looks like they’re lying sometimes. Because they just sort of see what happens and rolls with it.

Doesn’t work out a lot. lol

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

Meglobob.8620:

when is the first guild wars 2 expansion coming out?

From what we have been told NEVER, there is never, ever going to be a expansion.

Living story updates every 2 weeks thou, instead…

They never said they’d never have an expansion? Why say so?

“ArenaNet’s lead content designer Mike Zadorojny recently went on record puncturing that particular balloon, saying that if the team manages these updates correctly, it will “probably never do an expansion and everything will be going into this Living World strategy.”"

GW2 might never have an expansion – Massively

It’s basically saying at first there will not be an expansion, then they realized “Oh kitten, we kittened up by saying that!” and they went back and said “Nah, we’re working on it.” Everyone knows they aren’t. LS is where they’ll stay.

They’ve said long long before that interview, that there may or may not be an expansion, but the types of things you’d expect from expansions are being worked on. They have yet to decide the best way to deliver that content.

Meglobob.8620:

when is the first guild wars 2 expansion coming out?

From what we have been told NEVER, there is never, ever going to be a expansion.

Living story updates every 2 weeks thou, instead…

They never said they’d never have an expansion? Why say so?

Skyline.3480:

ProxyDamage.9826:

Don’t look at this as an “I quit!” post. I didn’t, not yet. I’m hanging around (with rapidly fading enthusiasm, I admit) to see what happens for now.

You are wasting your time son. This game will never be what you or I wanted it to be.
They made a choice long ago to follow this path and there’s no coming back from it.

I can predict one thing with certainty though, call me crazy if you must. The game will not die. It will become more and more similar to conventional MMOs. More vertical progression will be added, new levels and gear tiers. New grindy elements and features will be added, to the point the game will be unrecognizable.
Yes, it will loose many players in the process but in the end it will remain a popular game. A game I won’t be playing.

See I don’t think so. I think it’s still on a moderate progression path…and they intend to stay that way..that is the gear progression is going to be relatively minor stat-wise compared to other games. You won’t need the gear to run dungeons.

That’s my prediction anyway.

haviz.1340:

Vayne.8563:

Except that Factions and Prophecies together had less content than Guild Wars 2 at launch. Nice try though.

I’m sure pvp in gw2 is blooming thanks to all that content we have.

You know, PvP players have, in my opinion, the absolute most legit gripe of all players. I should point out that as a PvE’er I feel quite spoiled. As far as PvE content goes, Guild Wars 2 launched with more content than both games put together.

And Guild Wars 1 had nothing even remotely resembling WvW.

raptor.1064:

Banono.4597:

Thank you Galen Grey for making this list “100+ Guild missions, 2 Dungeons, 50+ new Dynamic Events, 3 PvP maps, 3 news mini dungeons, a new meta event, a new zone and the changes to WvW.” because that sounds close to an expansions worth of content (Maybe add two more zones and a new class) and the kicker is it was free and done in less than a year after release.

All that content is pathetic compared to what GW Factions added.

Except that Factions and Prophecies together had less content than Guild Wars 2 at launch. Nice try though.

Galen Grey.4709:

Vayne.8563:

Coffee.7058:

Galen Grey.4709:

I am leveling artificer up as well.

But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!

LMAO! 15mina of gather might net you 10ori at best.

Oh boy it’s getting deep.

Unless you go to gw2nodes.com and follow the maps there, once a day. 15 minutes gets you three zones of ori and ancient wood if you ignore mobs and use waypoints.

Exactly.

It might not be fun but it works great.

If you’re impatient and dont enjoy finding the notes yourself its an option way better then spending so much gold for sure!

The farmers right now are cursing my name for publicly revealing the secret. lol

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Don’t complain! They haven’t announced anything like this yet!

Don’t complain! They’ve already announced it! You should have complained before hand!

Don’t complain! It’s already in the game! You can’t stop the ball from rolling!

Or you could say how you feel without actually “complaining”. I did.

You mean like what the OP wrote, and still got this type of response?
Shocking!

Yep…but I agree with the OP. lol

BlueZone.4236:

Don’t complain! They haven’t announced anything like this yet!

Don’t complain! They’ve already announced it! You should have complained before hand!

Don’t complain! It’s already in the game! You can’t stop the ball from rolling!

Or you could say how you feel without actually “complaining”. I did.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Vayne.8563:

I have different conversations with friends.

What’s new in the game. The living story. This week we’re fighting T’quatl. It’s a pretty epic dragon battle. Next week, there’s a new dungeon path coming into the game.

It’s not about what’s gone, it’s about what’s coming. You’re always two weeks away from something new…and you never know what it’s going to be.

To me that’s a selling point.

Fair enough point, that for you it sells the game. There are quite a few people who don’t see it this way. I don’t know the numbers nor do you, but it is fair to say that there are going to be people who dislike temporary content. I happen to be one of those players and obviously I am not alone in feeling that way as some of these recounting’s can attest to.

I guarantee you that if players weren’t logging in in increasingly larger numbers, Anet would not have added three teams to the living story team.

They didn’t look at the numbers, say this isn’t working and ramp it up.

Lafiel.9372:

Vayne.8563:

I have different conversations with friends.

What’s new in the game. The living story. This week we’re fighting T’quatl. It’s a pretty epic dragon battle. Next week, there’s a new dungeon path coming into the game.

It’s not about what’s gone, it’s about what’s coming. You’re always two weeks away from something new…and you never know what it’s going to be.

To me that’s a selling point.

Lol there is no depth in this conversation at all. At least add a reply of some sort.

Well I could add in the “sounds cool” and “oh really” but they didn’t seem to add much to the scene.

Cactus.2710:

Vayne.8563:

Cactus.2710:

Vayne.8563:

Nice opinion piece…which is pretty much just that. A very long opinion piece, but you blow it at the end.

You say this could be avoided,. but you don’t really know that. It’s pure conjecture. I’m not sure you’d said anything here that hasn’t been said in countless threads.

LOL. Do you even read the stuff you post? If what he said has been stated previously in “countless threads”, maybe … just maybe … it goes beyond pure conjecture and maybe … just maybe … a lot of it could indeed have been avoided if ANet had just taken all that ’countless" feedback seriously.

Countless threads? You can’t count them? Are you sure?

More than a thousand threads? I’m sure you can count up to a thousand. It doesn’t even take that long.

Anet has metrics. Threads are very nice, but you know…they’re just that…threads. And people in those negative threads sometimes disagree with the threads.

And MMORPG forums are usually cesspools of complaint no matter how well a game is doing.

How many complaints are troll threads too, because I’ve seen a few of those (though I agree this one is not).

Complaints on forums are nothing to get excited about. They sure as hell don’t guarantee a majority opinion.

Uhh … you’re the one who used the word “countless”. I was simply parroting you. How could that possibly have escaped you??

At this hour, anything can escape me. You should keep my schedule. lol

I’m in favor of no level cap increase.

Mathias.9657:

And still people laugh at me when I say GW2 is a billion times more grindy than WoW. Clueless dolts… ANet and its players needs to wake up, this game is essentially a korean grind F2P MMO as it stands. There is little difference, I may as well go play Aion or any other free MMO on the market with ridiculous cash shops and RNG everywhere and everything. And before you tell me to quit, I have. My last post was 2 months ago, I came back to see how the game is doing and ANet have done literally nothing.

I don’t know. I’ve played Aion. I don’t remember getting best in slot weapons in a week or two. Maybe I’m nuts.

Actually I like the idea of the longer you do something, the more chance you have of getting it. But comparing a wolf pelt to a precusor is a misnomer..because a wolf pelt just gets you a standard quest reward.

What you have to ask is that has that other game made it so that raid drops in epic raids work that way. I think no.

Coffee.7058:

Galen Grey.4709:

I am leveling artificer up as well.

But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!

LMAO! 15mina of gather might net you 10ori at best.

Oh boy it’s getting deep.

Unless you go to gw2nodes.com and follow the maps there, once a day. 15 minutes gets you three zones of ori and ancient wood if you ignore mobs and use waypoints.

milo.6942:

Blackmoon.6837:

The sad thing is that I really do want to play. I just get stuck at the login screen, wondering rather or not there’s anything I can do that isn’t a grind.

It would be awesome if they fixed the overall game-play by making skills feel like they matter and making the use of them + combos fell rewarding. There’s such a lack of depth with the combat.

Yes.
Don’t listen to anyone that tells you otherwise, that tells you the combat in this game is good. It’s not. It does, however, feel good, which is not the same as being good.

I don’t think you get to objectively decide if something is good or not. It’s good for certain play styles and not good for others.

It does have problems, that I agree with, but something can have problems and still be good (reference Skyrim).