Guild Wars 2

Spiral Architect.6540:

funkylovemonkey.3097:

It’s not a wishlist I would like to see in the future. It’s a wishlist of what I wish Anet had been working on for the last year instead of weapon and armor tiers and temporary content and celebrations. At the one year mark in GW1, Factions was released. With a considerably smaller team working on the game back then as well. Six months after that we had the release of Nightfall. Two full continents, four new professions, thousands of skills, missions and quests. Do you think we’re going to have close to that with GW2 in six months? And that’s despite the fact that GW2 is quite a bit more popular then GW1 was, with a far more extensive gem shop.

My problem is that in the last year of updates, they’ve invested a lot of time on temporary content, a rather threadbare living story, and vertical progression. And it appears the philosophy of Anet has changed from what it was in GW1 and now is like every other MMO on the market; a focus on cheap tricks of vertical progression and an insistence on grinding.

Quoted for truth.

Quoted for a deviation of truth.

What you neglected to mention was that the total content of Factions and Prophecies TOGETHER, aren’t as big as Guild Wars 2 was at launch.

2 starting zones (compared to 5).

Quests that number about a third of the number of dynamic events. 38 missions (compared to how many personal story installments?). 8 dungeons, with multiple paths, compared to Five elite areas. Fractal, of course, added an elite area.

Not including minigames, not including living story, not including temporary dungeons….sure they came out with Factions, the smallest, fastest Guild Wars game, which they sold to you.

But you paid twice for a game will less content than existed in Guild Wars 2 at launch.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Vayne.8563:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know where you get your information from. Most niche MMOs fail too. Very few MMOs success at all, in the big sense of the word.

Guild Wars 1 was more niche than Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Guild Wars 1 had in its heyday. I’m relatively sure Guild Wars 2 is more successful than Guild Wars 1.

I think there are plenty of people who like enough of the game to keep it going strong indefinitely. That’s not because the game is great mind you, but because they did find a niche audience. A niche audience of achievement hunters. As long as they continue to give those people more achievements, those people will keep playing.

Me, I don’t need or want all those achievements. I do most of them anyway, because that’s what the game has become, but it’s not my preferred play style.

But saying the game will go about of business because it’s doing what it’s doing is probably not true.

You don’t need to know 8D it’s not of your business in the slightest!

snip

I’m contesting your premise that they’re better off focusing on a niche market instead of trying to appeal to everyone…in other words, you’re entire premise.

Okay, let’s for argument sake say Anet changes and focuses on a niche. What if another game comes along that suits that niche as well or better. They’re completely screwed. The idea of player retention is to retain players…as many as possible. Not five guys who might still be playing in five years.

No big business and MMOs have become big business, can function that way. It’s not realistic.

But that depends on the other comapny’s excecution of their concept, aswell as the concept aswell, and finally, the polish of the concept (Lore, class names, blah blah blah).

Like, okay. Assume another MMo comes along with that niche. If they don’t do it well, they’re screwed. Again, you can see this already in many gaming industries – LoL/Dota, Xnumberofmmos/WoW. The evidence doesn’t even need to explained because of can see that one does something that’s great, and other either did the same thing, Except better (My opinion of LoL, at least) or, took that concept and failed with it (As we can see with many MMOs between the time of WoW and GW2). Now, of course, this is not to say that they failed in that they crashed down (at least not immediately) or they were kittenuch. But they certainly failed/passed against their competition respectively, irrespective of popular opinion vs actual results. We can all talk about how Tera was great and GW2 sucks and Smite is fun and LoL is dull and lame, but where’s the money going? Who’s expanding? Who’s progressing? Who’s going forward faster than the others? That’s what you measure success by, at least in my eyes – the company’s progression in what they’re doing.

So I mean, your argument, whilst right by principal, like mine actually is conditional. Alot of people say FF14 is great, but visiting game stores, I find alot of staff who played the game after GW2 and other games, say it’ll go f2p soon. Now how soon? No idea. Are they infallible? Obviously not. But given you have someone who sells the games, plays the game, speaks to people who play the game, sells the game cards of the game – they’re at very least observing something. Then you have to factor in things like Sales for extra objects, like Gem cards or RP (Im using LoL based example because I’m most familiar with it). Some companies succeed on whatever they’re selling outright, but micro transactions are ignored.

And just as well, GW1 largely did exactly that, it didn’t really change from Prophecies to EotN. You did have major changes like for example, they introduced the Luxon-Kurzick system for PvP, giving it a new dimension. But if you look at Armor, for almost a decade there was NO vertical progression, whilst every other kind of MMO-esque game aspired for exactly that. Can you contest that GW1 is successful independant of comparison to any other game of its time?

It’s still a different market. You say do something well. Today don’t something well for how many people…and what are the odds some other company with more money won’t come along in a year and do it better, the same thing, and take away your player base.

Diversity can equal security. That’s why most big companies end up diversifying. It’s why supermarkets end up developing film. They don’t develop film better, faster or cheaper than anyone else, but they do get a percentage of that market share.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

xephire.8324:

Anyway don’t show your support for ANET if you don’t like the direction they are going so they won’t make another WOW like game….

Yes this game is very much like WoW. I mean they both have swords and staffs. It must be a WoW clone.

Saying a game is like WoW doesn’t make a game like WoW. Just sayin’.

Ultimate defense….of EVERY WoW clone*….and they all failed.

Just sayin.

Oh, and losing 5 MILLION players is NOT successful.

The ONLY MMO that still gains players is EvE.

*except Rift, they pretty much advertised as WoW clone. Didnt help much either way.

First of all, comparing a themepark MMO to a sandbox MMO isn’t really convincing me of anything.

Oh look, niche Eve sandbox MMO has a growing population. They’re reached half a million players. Okay. Not really all that much for a theme park MMO, but certainly respectable for a sand box.

More to the point, how many of Eve’s players are casual? How easy is it to play Eve casually? You can just sort of log in, come back a couple of weeks later and log in again?

I don’t see how anyone can compare these two games…maybe individual aspects, but that’s not what you’re doing. You’re talking about success.

Secondly, the conclusions you’re extrapolating from information you have is flawed. Why did the games that mimic WoW fail? You’ve drawn a specific conclusion as if they’ve all failed for the same reason.

Many games failed because they were so buggy they were virtually unplayable (Vanguard/Warhammer). Others failed for other reasons. Some in fact, haven’t failed at all, they’ve just had limited success.

There’s a certain way of thinking that puts all your eggs in one basket. This game failed because of X, that game failed because of Y. There are very few games that fail for a single reason. Trying to show that you know the reason any of the games failed makes me question your entire premise.

SonicTHI.3217:

Vayne.8563:

I’m contesting your premise that they’re better off focusing on a niche market instead of trying to appeal to everyone…in other words, you’re entire premise.

Okay, let’s for argument sake say Anet changes and focuses on a niche. What if another game comes along that suits that niche as well or better. They’re completely screwed. The idea of player retention is to retain players…as many as possible. Not five guys who might still be playing in five years.

No big business and MMOs have become big business, can function that way. It’s not realistic.

I think you need to do some serious research.

GW2 disproves your point entirely. If GW1 wasnt a successful niche GW2 would never have been made. You do not retain players by watering down your game to please everyone. In fact you get the opposite result.

Ask any successful person in the entertainment industry what you get if you try to please everyone. You loose our identity/brand and you are no longer recognizable.

Instead you start with a niche and build on it as GW2 did till nov 15th. But then they abandoned the core principles and now here we are a year later. GW2 is now just another MMO with progression, dailies, grind… why would people want to play GW2 instead of the next best thing coming out soon?

I think you should do some serious research, staring with competition.

As I said elsewhere, when Guild Wars 1 released, how many multiplayer fantasy games existed that didn’t charge a monthly fee? How about now?

You can’t compare what a company did 8 years ago in this industry with the situation today. You can’t compare a company with a staff of 50 to a company with a staff of 300.

It’s a different type. The genre has changed. The player base has changed. Games that try to do that, will perish into obscurity, because unlike 8 years ago, there are dozens of free to play MMOs…and that’s the problem.

Anet tried to use a similar strategy at launch and found it wasn’t working. That’s why they introduced ascended gear in the first place in my opinion. To stop the flood of people who simply stopped logging in because they had nothing to do.

Hell there were no sites like Dulfy 8 years ago either, where you basically could get a walk through for everything the day before it was out. So you need more content today than back then, because people finish it faster.

I was in this business for a long time, buying games for a computer store in NYC. I started in computers in 1983. There are very very few fields that change as fast as this one does.

Convention wisdom doesn’t necessarily continue to apply, because circumstances change so rapidly.

marnick.4305:

Vayne.8563:

I’m contesting your premise that they’re better off focusing on a niche market instead of trying to appeal to everyone…in other words, you’re entire premise.

Okay, let’s for argument sake say Anet changes and focuses on a niche. What if another game comes along that suits that niche as well or better. They’re completely screwed. The idea of player retention is to retain players…as many as possible. Not five guys who might still be playing in five years.

No big business and MMOs have become big business, can function that way. It’s not realistic.

And yet, having a niche game kept GW1 afloat for 7 years. Having a successful niche game can be successful if you’re good at your niche. No one except WoW managed to be successful without having a niche to settle in.

It was a different time, with different overheads, different investment. Sure, if they want to sack half their staff, cut back on updates, and just sort of coast, they can become niche. But there’s a staff of 300, not 50…and an MMO isn’t the same as a lobby game anyway.

Honestly how many multiplayer fantasy games existed when Guild Wars 1 came out? How many were free?

This is a whole different time. There are free to play MMOs pretty much everywhere. There’s the still dominant WoW sitting there.

Do you really think a niche game today can survive the same way a niche game did 8 years ago?

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Vayne.8563:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Sykper.6583:

It has been a very long time since I was so refreshed playing an MMO, it doesn’t matter really people what you or your friends want to invest in this game, it is quite apparent Arenanet is at least trying to put effort hitting all the potential audiences to get them to play.

- Jornosh, Suicidal Warrior of [One].

And that’s where the failure is.

You aren’t ever going to please everyone. Ever. It doesn’t happen. When I played GW1 back in 06/07, EVERYONE I knew, besides my dad who gave me his account, told me GW1 was crap, was garbage, was the worst MMO ever. Of course. That was Gw1. But my point should be more than obvious.

Look at WoW. Most popular MMO right now, still strong after a decade and.. Not everyone likes it. Hell, the playerbase doesn’t like many aspects of it. Agreed to be the most successful, yes. By numbers, the most popular. But not necessarily by positive opinion. If arena net intends to succeed, they need to niche-market. Or they can enjoy sinking like a stone. That works too.

I don’t know where you get your information from. Most niche MMOs fail too. Very few MMOs success at all, in the big sense of the word.

Guild Wars 1 was more niche than Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Guild Wars 1 had in its heyday. I’m relatively sure Guild Wars 2 is more successful than Guild Wars 1.

I think there are plenty of people who like enough of the game to keep it going strong indefinitely. That’s not because the game is great mind you, but because they did find a niche audience. A niche audience of achievement hunters. As long as they continue to give those people more achievements, those people will keep playing.

Me, I don’t need or want all those achievements. I do most of them anyway, because that’s what the game has become, but it’s not my preferred play style.

But saying the game will go about of business because it’s doing what it’s doing is probably not true.

You don’t need to know 8D it’s not of your business in the slightest!

And for the record, I can’t see where you’ve conflicted with me to really try and rule me out in any way or shape or form, to that end. GW1 was niche, yes. GW2 is more successful.. Discussable, but yes. People like the game? Yes. People don’t like the game? Yes. ANet has a niche? A few, yes. You have your own playstyle? Okay I guess. Last line makes no sense.

All I said was they shouldn’t go around opening doors to everyone. Because they’re better of focusing on 100 people who actually love and care about the game, than 1000 people who are just playing till the next big MMO becomes their new candle flame to fly over to. Which. Always. Happens. People did it with Gw2 (they left the MMO they played) – some stayed, some returned, and some did both, or neither. I honestly don’t know what you’re trying to contest.

I’m contesting your premise that they’re better off focusing on a niche market instead of trying to appeal to everyone…in other words, you’re entire premise.

Okay, let’s for argument sake say Anet changes and focuses on a niche. What if another game comes along that suits that niche as well or better. They’re completely screwed. The idea of player retention is to retain players…as many as possible. Not five guys who might still be playing in five years.

No big business and MMOs have become big business, can function that way. It’s not realistic.

I have six…working on my thief now, then I’ll do my ele. Not sure beyond that.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Sykper.6583:

It has been a very long time since I was so refreshed playing an MMO, it doesn’t matter really people what you or your friends want to invest in this game, it is quite apparent Arenanet is at least trying to put effort hitting all the potential audiences to get them to play.

- Jornosh, Suicidal Warrior of [One].

And that’s where the failure is.

You aren’t ever going to please everyone. Ever. It doesn’t happen. When I played GW1 back in 06/07, EVERYONE I knew, besides my dad who gave me his account, told me GW1 was crap, was garbage, was the worst MMO ever. Of course. That was Gw1. But my point should be more than obvious.

Look at WoW. Most popular MMO right now, still strong after a decade and.. Not everyone likes it. Hell, the playerbase doesn’t like many aspects of it. Agreed to be the most successful, yes. By numbers, the most popular. But not necessarily by positive opinion. If arena net intends to succeed, they need to niche-market. Or they can enjoy sinking like a stone. That works too.

I don’t know where you get your information from. Most niche MMOs fail too. Very few MMOs success at all, in the big sense of the word.

Guild Wars 1 was more niche than Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 probably has more players than Guild Wars 1 had in its heyday. I’m relatively sure Guild Wars 2 is more successful than Guild Wars 1.

I think there are plenty of people who like enough of the game to keep it going strong indefinitely. That’s not because the game is great mind you, but because they did find a niche audience. A niche audience of achievement hunters. As long as they continue to give those people more achievements, those people will keep playing.

Me, I don’t need or want all those achievements. I do most of them anyway, because that’s what the game has become, but it’s not my preferred play style.

But saying the game will go about of business because it’s doing what it’s doing is probably not true.

TooBz.3065:

wouw.5837:

Well they did.

They anounced ascended items 1 year ago

Yes, but they launched > 1 year ago.

So you’ve had ten months to get used to the idea. It’s obviously not going away.

I’ve had other problems with my logitech mouse, I’m wondering now if I shouldn’t just get something else. Gah.

LITTLE.9864:

I used to get this on a Logitech G500 when holding right-click. I would target random objects. Tested in the Logitech utility and found my right-click was releasing and re-clicking quickly. Switched to a Corsair M90 and it has worked since. Expensive fix though.

Must add that it was only an issue in GW2, but the Logitech utility definitely said the right-click wasn’t holding. Maybe need to address how targeting with right-click works? Seems to be a common problem.

I’ve experienced this problem and I have a logitech G700…are we saying this is a logitech problem?

Anyone else have this problem who’s not using a logitech gaming mouse.

There are very few personal stories, in fact I can’t think of any, that can’t be soloed. What profession are you?

There will eventually be more dungeons. We know also there’ll be a couple of new fractals, which will revitalize that to some degree…but this game was never designed around dungeons. It was designed around a “living/breathing world”. I knew when that was said it wasn’t focused on instanced content and frankly I’m happy for that. I was looking for an MMO where that was the case for a long time.

Because I don’t think dungeons and raids are the be all end all of MMORPGing. In fact, they’re almost anti-RPG from my point of view. They’re more like separate minigames. You fight a boss until you learn the mechanics, and then you need another boss.

I’m not sure why the Living Story dungeons didn’t appeal to you, OP.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet will be very happy to have you around OP — as long as you are content with the content that was in the game at launch, and don’t care too much about the content that was in at launch that has been replaced. If you buy gems, it’s a bonus. If you want more fun things to do, though, don’t expect them to listen. You’re not one of the cool kids.

So are you saying nothing fun to do has been added to the game? Because I seem to have found some fun things to do. I think Sanctum Sprint is a fun thing to do (and it wasn’t in the game at launch).

And before people launch into a tirade about minigames..minigames were always meant to be a part of the mix. It’s true that it’s different minigames than they originally announced, but surely some people who bought this game were looking forward to those mini games.

I also quite like Southsun Survival. I loved the entire Bazaar of the Four Winds. I don’t love Super Adventure box, but then I don’t feel like I have to love everything.

And a lot of people do like this Tequatl thing, even if it’s not really my cup of tea. Some people like the Scarlet Invasions. Some people like champion farming. They find that fun (don’t ask me why).

Fun things to do doesn’t mean things that any one player thinks is fun. Hell, some people even like the Moa Races.

Evagal.2584:

Haha..wow. All these white knights saying all this grind garbage is okay because “its an mmo.”

You’re right. It IS an MMO. GW2 was SUPPOSE to be the MMO where you didn’t have to actually WORK for endgame gear (stats). Little effort was required: this was the point of the game. Little emphasis on gear..the gear is easy to get. After that, you can simply do whatever you wanted: WvWvW,Spvp, dungeons, or chase that legendary or mini-legendary skin. However,you had no worries of being left behind with tiered gear.

Did any of you play before Ascended gear,or are you all new people?
Ascended gear was introduced which caved the entire game’s base philosophy.
It is now a grind-gearmill like every other MMO.
The OP had the vision of when the game was first released.
Sorry OP,that game is long gone :|

First, everyone that disagrees with something you believe is not automatically a white knight and that type of labeling is couterproductive to any serious discussion. It diminishes your credibility, if you care at all about that sort of thing.

Secondly, ascended gear, ie vertical progression, has been in the game since November. If you’re just finding out about it now, maybe you haven’t played this game.

I’ve been here since beta one and I’m not particularly happy with every change Anet has made…but then, I’m pragmatic. I know most people aren’t self-entertaining. In a theme-park MMO they need “stuff to do”. That’s all most MMORPGs actually are. A bunch of stuff to do.

Some people dungeon and raid, some people do dailies, some people RP, but it’s all just stuff to do. And most people who play themepark MMOs leave when they run out of stuff to do. This is my experience.

So Anet tried it the way they envisioned it and they saw people not logging in and not playing. Big investment, a lot of time and money. So they made changes to secure the game.

I’ve been here since the first beta, and I see why it was done…but it wasn’t done yesterday. If it’s not your type of game, that’s fine.

From my point of view (and according to what Anet has been saying) concurrency numbers are growing.

That means more people are liking this than not liking it.

Everyone isn’t a white knight just because they like a game.

God Of Fissures.8627:

Vayne.8563:

God Of Fissures.8627:

ArenaNet’s promises don’t mean anything like they used to back in the days of GW1.

They proved this when the game took a completely opposite direction from the Manifesto.

You mean you counted every line the manifesto and every line is a 180 degree turn around? Or you interpreted one line in one possible way and that one line is a 180 degree turnaround?

Because there’s at least 50 lines in the manifesto that are still true, I’d think. Particularly when you actually pay attention to Anet’s clarification of it, which was released 3 days after the manifesto.

As long as people keeping bringing up the manifesto to try to make a point, I’ll keep point out that the other side of the story.

You can do that all you want. This is not the game that the developers described in the Manifesto.

Shrugs. Most of the manifesto, the largest part of it, remains true.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

kitanas.3596:

don’t have time to read whole thread, sooooooooo

OP, It wasn’t advertised because it wasn’t planned imo, and the reason the plans changed was because of massive player outcry about a year or so ago

I don’t recall anyone asking for tier gear, much less an outcry.

I do recall a massive 11,000+ post outcry against Ascended gear, that got unceremoniously closed. Seems most people back then bought the game under the assumption that there wasn’t any, because they advertised it that way…

Strange, cause I remember people asking for gear grind. Usually they get shot down pretty fast so they stopped posting.

In fact, one of my most highly rated posts on this forum is warning a guy that he just opened a can of worms by asking for it.

I’m thinking the onesy-twosey folks bringing it up were a far, far smaller crowd than the anti-gear-grind crowd (as evidenced by the afore-mentioned mega-thread).

ANet really misread the community on that one (or got greedy and panicked at the perfectly normal drop in players a few months after a game launches), and screwed the pooch when it comes to making GW2 redefine the genre.

We’ll never know for sure, but I bet they blew their chances as becoming legendary in the long-term trying to knee-jerk fix a short-term hiccup. That one decision, back in October/November is the one that’s going to haunt GW2 for the rest of its existence.

They could at least do what CCP did after Monoclegate, admit what happened, and put up a monument to the player’s epic dissatisfaction. I don’t think ArenaNet is that classy, though. Not any more.

I don’t believe Anet misread the community. I think the forum community thinks they’re THE community and that’s not necessarily the case.

People were bored and leaving. What evidence do you have that more people wouldn’t have left if ascended gear wasn’t here than more people left because of it?

I know you really believe that forum posters are the majority or think like the majority, but in my experience that’s not true (and this was backed up by something said not too long ago by an Anet dev).

Chuo.4238:

kitanas.3596:

don’t have time to read whole thread, sooooooooo

OP, It wasn’t advertised because it wasn’t planned imo, and the reason the plans changed was because of massive player outcry about a year or so ago

I don’t recall anyone asking for tier gear, much less an outcry.

I do recall a massive 11,000+ post outcry against Ascended gear, that got unceremoniously closed. Seems most people back then bought the game under the assumption that there wasn’t any, because they advertised it that way…

Strange, cause I remember people asking for gear grind. Usually they get shot down pretty fast so they stopped posting.

In fact, one of my most highly rated posts on this forum is warning a guy that he just opened a can of worms by asking for it.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

I disagree, to a point, that this game is alt unfriendly. There are many ways to use alts. It’s ONLY alt unfriendly if you somehow decide that all alts must have BIS gear, which isn’t a requirement of the game. In fact, different alts for some of us, serve different purposes. I can do anything in the open world on an alt, even in rares. I can run dungeons with the exception of high level fractals on any alt…that’s any dungeon I choose.

I’m not sure why BIS gear is such a big deal to have on every alt.

By the same token, every alt now has the same magic find, they can all work on achievements for you, they can all help your bottom line.

I just don’t get it.

Different people get different things out of an MMO. I have no idea what you get out of it. I know that what I get out of it depends, at least in part, of having BIS gear. Are you saying that how I play the game and what I enjoy is illegitimate?

If so, why even talking, just move on. There will be no persuasion here.

If not, then the only question is whether this game had something for me that is now gone. (the ability to gear alts in BIS gear and to easily change builds from one BIS outfit to another)

I was VERY careful not to say that ANet SAID anything or PROMISED anything (I actually edited my post to make sure we didn’t get into that old argument… yawn). All I’m saying is that objectively it went from that to this. Period.

And, for me, this is terrible for alts.

P.S. For the record, I don’t get your viewpoint either.

P.P.S. For someone like me, I probably shouldn’t be playing MMOs. I should stick to single player games where the achievements are well understood and the bar doesn’t move.

The problem is simple. You’re playing this game, with the prejudice of playing every other game.

In many other MMOs you need BIS gear to do stuff and so for those games that attitude is probably correct.

But when a new game comes out, if you drag your prejudices from other games with you, if you try to play this game like you’ve played every other game, you’re likely to be disappointed.

Why have a fixed, this is how I play games attitude? Does that help you somehow?

I’m not pointing out that you’re doing it wrong. I’m pointing out that your insistence on this is damaging the amount of fun you’re having. If that’s okay with you, by all means, feel free to continue.

In other games, I was a completionist. I had to stop here, because it would kill me. I can’t enjoy this game as a completionist…but it’s a different game.

xephire.8324:

cool down for lfg?ROFL.

It prevents griefing….because some people grief.

God Of Fissures.8627:

ArenaNet’s promises don’t mean anything like they used to back in the days of GW1.

They proved this when the game took a completely opposite direction from the Manifesto.

You mean you counted every line the manifesto and every line is a 180 degree turn around? Or you interpreted one line in one possible way and that one line is a 180 degree turnaround?

Because there’s at least 50 lines in the manifesto that are still true, I’d think. Particularly when you actually pay attention to Anet’s clarification of it, which was released 3 days after the manifesto.

As long as people keeping bringing up the manifesto to try to make a point, I’ll keep point out that the other side of the story.

I disagree, to a point, that this game is alt unfriendly. There are many ways to use alts. It’s ONLY alt unfriendly if you somehow decide that all alts must have BIS gear, which isn’t a requirement of the game. In fact, different alts for some of us, serve different purposes. I can do anything in the open world on an alt, even in rares. I can run dungeons with the exception of high level fractals on any alt…that’s any dungeon I choose.

I’m not sure why BIS gear is such a big deal to have on every alt.

By the same token, every alt now has the same magic find, they can all work on achievements for you, they can all help your bottom line.

I just don’t get it.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

What’s selling out?

Come on now…we’re all adults here, let’s not play these games.

Vayne.8563:

What if they kept to their original idea and everyone stopped playing. What if there were four guys left and you couldn’t find a group for your dungeon.

What if they’d stuck to their original ideas and had a few less players but still more than enough to turn a very healthy profit? What if they stuck with their original ideas long enough for those addicted to grinds and treadmills to get through their withdrawals and realize how great the “play for fun” model could have been?

That’s my point. If the game lost enough people, they’d stop making content, and those who played and championed the game would eventually leave. There’s no games here. There’s this idealistic idea that someone should stick to their principles no matter what. This isn’t “live free or die”. This is no vertical progression. There’s a big difference between these sets of principles. This isn’t real life, it’s a game.

Except to the people who are working on it…for them it’s real life. Like STWoR which had to lay off half it’s staff and TSW which laid off one third of its staff. Who do you think is more important, your enjoyment of a sixty dollar game or the livilihood of the people who worked on it? Business decisions are made to save businesses all the time and very often those decisions are unpopular.

No one can say what would have happened if Anet hadn’t introduced ascended gear. For all I know the game could have more people playing than today (but I doubt that would be the case).

The point is, Anet saw a problem and they moved to head off the problem. Some would call that selling out…some would call it pragmatism.

Whether it technically falls in or out of the TOS, I’m sure you won’t get banned for it.

Chuo.4238:

Tachenon.5270:

GuzziHero.2467:

Why didn’t Anet tell us this was coming when the game started?

Would you have bought the game if you’d known then what you know now?

Absolutely not. I really feel like they advertised one game, and delivered another.

xephire.8324:

Well Anet and the white knights of the game will tell you the game is changing to suit the needs of the player base.You can’t do anything much :/.

And here we have our case-in-point:

Vayne.8563:

OP, what makes you think Anet knew the game would be changing in this direction?

Anet launched a game with a plan…they saw that plan not working and changed their plan. Developers have to do this all the time.

Nice prediction, Xephire. I think we all saw this coming :P

By the way, changing the plan is a lot like advertising one thing, and then selling someone another. It’s not cool, unless there’s an awful lot of upfront communication. Which ArenaNet don’t do. So yea – not cool.

I never said it was cool…I only said it happens. You’re perfectly within your right to be upset about it. I count a good dozen people that post here that are upset about it. The last of the Mahicans so to speak.

It’s not going to change anything, but if it makes you feel better to come here and complain about a game that pretty much changed last November….it’s your time and energy.

It’s amazing that people are razzing me for enjoying a game I paid for and saying so, trying to make me look like there’s something wrong with me for not being unhappy.

I guess misery really does love company.

Nuka Cola.8520:

so 1 mission with bugged bridge is worth mentioning as something very bad and negative but thousands bugs and most importantly bugged skills/traits is nothing? not a single skill in gw1 was bugged for a year~~~~in gw2 there’s literally dozens rofl its so pathetic its not even funny and say this to someone who haven’t played the game he’ll probably not even believe you. Its pretty much incredible how they don’t give a &^%$ about fixing the absolute most important thing you can fix, players skills/traits.

No, I’m talking about the fact that for years, rangers couldn’t shoot arrows at creatures on bridges. I don’t really know how you missed that. It was about a third of the bridges in the game.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

It is worst. I think they’re using some AI from a game released in the 70’s or something. But then you look at gw1 and that game was better at everything compared to gw2 so yeaah. At the same time, this kind of AI and lag (how many games currently released drop to 10fps?) are unseen for a game that was released so recently.

Everything? Like the marketplace that didn’t exist? The bridge bug where you couldn’t fire arrows at something on a bridge? The lack of crafting (if you like crafting Guild Wars 1 certainly wasn’t better).

Everything about Guild Wars 1 wasn’t better than everything in Guild Wars 2.

TP is a ripoff, no idea what bridge you’re talking about (if that was a bug, i let you guess how many thousands gw2 has 13 months after game’s release), WHO THE F cares about crafting when weapon AND armor skins were waaaaaaay better than crap available in gw2~~ no wonder everyone looks the same and none feel unique. Absolutely everything was better in gw1, even graphics for its time. With every month gw2 isn’t getting closer to its old brother but is getting closer n closer at falling in the same bag of Korean generic mmo #437842.

Anyone who says everything was better, is obviously wrong. I mean, seriously obviously wrong. It’s not even possible for that to be true. The strength of the statement makes it false.

You call me a Guild Wars 2 fan boi….glass houses and stones and stuff.\

Edit: If nothing else, the pathing in GW 1 was terribad. Oh look a log…I guess I’ll have to turn around now.

Nuka Cola.8520:

It is worst. I think they’re using some AI from a game released in the 70’s or something. But then you look at gw1 and that game was better at everything compared to gw2 so yeaah. At the same time, this kind of AI and lag (how many games currently released drop to 10fps?) are unseen for a game that was released so recently.

Everything? Like the marketplace that didn’t exist? The bridge bug where you couldn’t fire arrows at something on a bridge? The lack of crafting (if you like crafting Guild Wars 1 certainly wasn’t better).

Everything about Guild Wars 1 wasn’t better than everything in Guild Wars 2.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Like Vayne said, GW1 was a superior game, I personally feel it was a better game than GW2, it did have its issues sure, but overall it was a far far more enjoyable game, hell it kept me and my friends playing it for 7 years, the same friends who have all abandoned GW2 for other games now because of lack of content, game breaking bugs, and basically being told how to play, and this week the rest of us will move over to FF14 to join our friends,

If GW1 and GW2 where both released at the same time, same GFX etc, GW1 would destroy GW2.

I didn’t say Guild Wars 1 was a superior game. I said in some ways it was a superior game. Whether it was superior or not, depends very much on specifically what you were looking for.

I believe for example that Guild Wars 1 was the superior PvP game. That much is certain. But there were advantages and disadvantages to the game play. For example, I couldn’t play Guild Wars 1 these days seriously because I won’t stand around in Spamadan trying to sell stuff, when in Guild Wars 2 I could just list it on the marketplace. And while some of the missions in Guild Wars 1 were a lot of fun, many were tedious and even annoying. Rose-colored glasses and all. Guild Wars 1 certainly had more skills and build variety, which meant that you could load up a team of heroes and AFK your way through pretty much most of the games content, including hard mode content.

More on topic, I’ve noticed that in some of the lower end zones, Queensdale for example, there are some examples of better AI. Low end moas run away from you when they’re overwhelmed, bandits actually dodge and centaur archers won’t stand there, but they’ll try to gallop away to get some distance on you if you’re melee.

The reason for the difference in the AI has everything to do with Guild Wars 1 giving you a full team of heroes at your disposal, or at least heroes and henchmen (now days you can use all heroes). It means you were never really alone…and that can’t always been said for Guild Wars 2.

Could you imagine trying to fight some of those mobs in Guild Wars 1 solo? Take the War in Kryta mobs, and try soloing them in hard mode. It’s much easier for devs to provide more intelligent foes when you had relatively intelligent AI on your side so you didn’t have to do all the work.

xephire.8324:

champ.7021:

Vayne.8563:

xephire.8324:

Anyway don’t show your support for ANET if you don’t like the direction they are going so they won’t make another WOW like game….

Yes this game is very much like WoW. I mean they both have swords and staffs. It must be a WoW clone.

Saying a game is like WoW doesn’t make a game like WoW. Just sayin’.

Yup i hate when people say this game is like wow. Saying that gives no context to what this game really is and if anything if this game is exactly like wow (which it isnt) at least it looks a kitten ton better.

I say its like wow-Exclamation
Expressing astonishment or admiration.I didn’t say wow clone.Learn how to read its all about the language and nuances

LMAO! That’s funny. Had you not capitalized WOW, I’d have certainly not known how you mean it, but very few people capitalize WOW in the middle of a sentence. I’m pretty sure everyone here knew what you meant…and if it’s not what you meant, perhaps you’d be so kind in the future to not capitalize something that completely misleads those reading your post.

OP, what makes you think Anet knew the game would be changing in this direction?

Anet launched a game with a plan…they saw that plan not working and changed their plan. Developers have to do this all the time.

xephire.8324:

Anyway don’t show your support for ANET if you don’t like the direction they are going so they won’t make another WOW like game….

Yes this game is very much like WoW. I mean they both have swords and staffs. It must be a WoW clone.

Saying a game is like WoW doesn’t make a game like WoW. Just sayin’.

Draco.2806:

“Our data suggests that very few players play as mobs, therefore improving them is low on our priority list.”

I would say the offender here would be the fact that good AI costs server power, but isn’t AI server-side in GW1 as well?..

(I haven’t played much of GW1, but why does it sound so much better than the sequel in many ways?)

Guild Wars 1 was a superior game in some ways, this is true..but not quite as superior as many of those who are commenting would have you believe…and yes, I was a huge fan of Guild Wars 1, and still find it enjoyable on the rare occasions I log back in. But there are many deficiencies in the game as well, that some people seem to ignore.

Khal Drogo.9631:

I recognize, as Vayne frequently reminds us, that companies change direction. I also recognize, however, that companies often sacrifice long term health for short term gains, and give up on a bold vision for a perceived sense of security. He’s right that we are in no place to judge why they’ve made the changes they have. We don’t know what forces they are responding to.

I might point out the only themepark MMO that anyone brings up as successful uses the same tactics Anet is using…however…a tactic is not a game. There are different ways of implementing the same things.

People say this game is becoming more like WoW…I don’t think that’s true. For example, while both games have dailies, dailies in both games are handled very differently.

As for long term health, here’s the catch. Many many MMOs have lost playerbase and never regained them…far more than have lost playerbase and have regained them. Warhammer is closing down. It lost its playerbase and never regained it. Vanguard the same thing.

The only way many companies have gained a larger player base, is to use really horrible pay to win type stuff, or force you to buy stuff in their cash shop if you want to play the core game.

In DDO for example, if you want to play with your friends, you have to buy dungeon packs to get the same dungeons. Otherwise, you could be playing and your guild could say we’re going to do this dungeon and you’d have to say, sorry I didn’t buy that one. That’s how a lot of free to play games are.

SWToR is free to play but not so as you’d notice. You have to pay to really play a good portion of the game. As one friend put it, SWToR is pay to walk. lol

In the end, Anet did what it felt it had to. Some call that selling out. I call that being responsible.

Unfortunately, we’ll never know if they’d have been successful if they’d stayed with the type of game I’d have preferred.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, people ARE playing the game. Concurrency numbers are going up.

Glad to hear ArenaNet’s selling out wasn’t for nothing.

What’s selling out? What if they kept to their original idea and everyone stopped playing. What if there were four guys left and you couldn’t find a group for your dungeon.

Would that have suited you better?

xephire.8324:

There’s nothing revolutionary about GW2… just some small tweaks to make it different.

Shakespeare’s plays weren’t revolutionary. They used words that had been around for ages and themes familiar since the greeks invented theater.

Mahaedros.7085:

Vayne.8563:

Good point. Because its’ bad for those playing the game to have more players.

Oh, you mean it’s bad for games to try to keep people playing.

The funny bit is, people ARE playing the game. Concurrency numbers are going up. So you might think that Anet is doing the wrong thing…but in reality, people are playing the game.

So your idea is to get people to stop playing a game they paid for, so they can go and play another game, when every MMO has similar sorts of things to keep people playing.

Why do MMOs need this? Because MMOs are dependent on lots of people playing and because there’s a lot of competition.

Welcome to the genre.

good point. hype to everyone that you are making it a revolutionary MMORPG that solves all the problems of past MMORPGs so much that people that “hate MMOs…” are going to love your new and different MMORPG.

Yes it is good to see more players playing. Time gating is one answer and it’s not even remotely the best answer to keep players playing.

I love GW2 and I want to see better solutions than time gating. I don’t care what every other MMO does.

Time gating is something I do not wish to endure and the forums are the place for me to express this sentiment.

No one every said everything in this game is going to be different from everything in every other game.

I really don’t like other MMOs. I like this MMO. For that reason, and many others, that hype was justified. But there’s another problem.

I legitimately think Anet overestimated how much the public will ALLOW you to change a formula without abandoning it.

You may well be ready for the next generation MMO….I don’t think the most of the people playing are. You can see it from many of the posts here.

The other flaw in your logic is this…what if 12 people who don’t like MMOs, would all like different non-MMO games.

A slogan is not reality.

I’m at 91%, and don’t buy anything to salvage, but I play a lot. A lot of that came from Scarlet Invasions.

Good point. Because its’ bad for those playing the game to have more players.

Oh, you mean it’s bad for games to try to keep people playing.

The funny bit is, people ARE playing the game. Concurrency numbers are going up. So you might think that Anet is doing the wrong thing…but in reality, people are playing the game.

So your idea is to get people to stop playing a game they paid for, so they can go and play another game, when every MMO has similar sorts of things to keep people playing.

Why do MMOs need this? Because MMOs are dependent on lots of people playing and because there’s a lot of competition.

Welcome to the genre.

This is probably the best bit of hyperbole I’ve seen since I’ve started reading these forums.

Why was getting a legendary so important?

thefantasticg.3984:

My friends and guildies thought I couldn’t pull the 6th precursor from the forge either…

It’s math dude, that’s all. Each level requires more and more luck…but the amount of the luck you get from drops doesn’t actually change. It’s designed to be a very long term goal.

thefantasticg.3984:

In the course of six hours I went from 24% to 138% account wide MF… So, Give me a week and mine will be maxed out.

It’ll take you longer to get from 299 to 300 than it did to get from 24 to 138, that’s for sure. lol

lol…the money making scheme…you make that sound so ominous. WoW charges for a server transfer and they charge a monthly fee as well. Most games charge for server transfers.

Actually, this game changes so fast, it would be the equivalent of downloading a whole new game anyway by now. This is true of most MMOs.

champ.7021:

Vayne.8563:

The more I think about ascended stuff, the less I like it. I still don’t see the whole doom and gloom aspect, but that’s another story.

There are things I’d like to do in the game that I’d have to put on hold if I want to do the stuff Anet wants me to do.

Which I think is one of the main complaints I’m seeing if I’m not mistaken.

Yup you got that right. Main thing people dont like about ascended is that to have bis gear they have to do things they hate doing. I think thats the argument in most of these anti-grind threads

I’m not really concerned personally about having BIS gear. It’s other stuff that bothers me that causes some of the same concerns though.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Vayne.8563:

colesy.8490:

Wow.

It’s true…during the Queen’s Gauntlet, even the ingredients used to make that food went up in price significantly on the marketplace.

I doubt it.
I think people realized feeding WvW zergs trays that increase health while downed is good as a single persons death can rez of multiple enemies.

Well, I don’t know, I can only tell you the advice I was getting from multiple sources on the matter. I don’t WvW that much so I can’t say. But I can say, with at least some authority, that a number of people I spoke to were in fact using that food.

Because there was a reasonable chance on some of the third tier bosses you were going to go down fast and rallying was important.

The more I think about ascended stuff, the less I like it. I still don’t see the whole doom and gloom aspect, but that’s another story.

There are things I’d like to do in the game that I’d have to put on hold if I want to do the stuff Anet wants me to do.

Which I think is one of the main complaints I’m seeing if I’m not mistaken.

colesy.8490:

Wow.

It’s true…during the Queen’s Gauntlet, even the ingredients used to make that food went up in price significantly on the marketplace.

I believe the OP is talking about temple events in Orr, since those are the karma vendors you’d actually need.