And the only thing that changed since last year is ascended gear, amirite?
rofl
game is not gaining popularity, unless you redefined gaining popularity to mean: you sell 5% of what you sold before.
I’m totally amazed by this statement. You’re talking about something I happen to know something about, from business. Entertainment products, particularly games, sell 90% of their total in the first three months of their life. It’s pretty well known in the industry. That’s because those who REALLY want it, buy it right away, and that leaves those who aren’t interested, or might eventually become interested. Naturally that number is going to be smaller as a game’s life advances.
You can pick up any piece of software and with VERY few exceptions (maybe something like Skyrim), 90% of the sales occur in the first 3 months.
Guild Wars 2 sold 3.5 million copies more than any other MMO besides WoW, and more than WoW in the same time period. That makes it fairly successful.
What the business model is based on is how many people are spending money in the cash shop and how many people are playing the game now. Many people have come back..some of those have probably left again. But the bottom line is, if the company wasn’t making money, they couldn’t have four times working on living story content. I wouldn’t constantly be on overflow servers either.
Anet won’t go back…but there’s still no gear barrier. I’m running all the same stuff I’ve always run on the gear I have. I don’t have an ascended weapon and probably won’t for a long time.
I could go to ANY MMO, no exceptions, and find a dev quote that isn’t true a few months after it’s made.
Honest question:
Would those dev quotes you find include statements that essentially claim that the previous statement was never true ?
I don’t know. Simple enough answer.
snip
It’s like when Anet said you can “play your own way”. They meant everyone can get to max level doing different stuff. You can level most of the way in WvW, or through crafting or just doing dynamic events in Queensdale without ever doing anything else.
At the end of the day, I’m not sure that what people hear is what is being said. Certainly a number of statements that have been called lies, I’ve interpreted differently than those who have claimed Anet was lying.|
And things DO change in MMOs. Anet went through great time and effort to talk about their iterative style and how they iterate and sometimes they go back and change entire systems. Taken with everything else, that seems to me to say they’re trying stuff and changing stuff all the time.
So the stuff that are statements that people take as promises are just that. Statements of intent. Everything else is something to play around with.
Basically anyone who thinks anything about an MMO is written in stone is likely to be disappointed.
I am not speaking of vague or open to interpretation statements whose wording can be taken to mean different things.
characters are intended to have max stat gear by level 80
vs
characters were not intended to have max stat gear that quickly.There is a huge difference between having to adapt to unexpected realities of a post launch game and claiming now that they never meant what they claimed back then.
I would not blame you for changing from a vegan restaurant to one that serves meat due to the needs of the business. But if you sold people a life time membership to your restaurant, which you advertised to them as vegan, for a one time fee and then changed your menu while claiming that you never intended it to be a vegan restaurant I would.
Yes, that’s a big difference. As big as adding meat to a vegetarian restaurant.
Anet saw the uptake of legendaries wasn’t working. They saw what people were saying. Believe it or not, they have many ways to judge who is doing what. My son, as I’ve said before, got his legendary and stopped playing. Now that ascended is back so is he, working on his ascended. For every guy like me, there’s a guy like him.
Anet made a decision before the game launched, saw that decision wasn’t quite working as they intended and changed the way they did business, kitten ing off the people who bought the game thinking it would be one way in the process. Anet did the same thing as adding meat to a vegetarian restaurant. There’s no real difference here.
What Anet tried to do was compromise. Not everyone is happy with the compromise and some people can’t live with it, but I’m wagering the bulk of players can….certainly the bulk of players that are playing now.
Which leaves a small, vocal disenfranchised group who aren’t going to stop complaining until the game loses money. There’s a whole lot of people playing the game right now. I’m not sure that would be true if ascended gear hadn’t been introduced.
“Vegan meal” with “a bit of meat” in it is not vegan meal any more.
Your spin aint working.
Ascended gear probably did more damage than good, and in the long run it will deal even more damage.
When you’re done with your crystal ball, you must lend it to me. Because I think you’re wrong. I think ascended gear will be a storm in a tea cup.
A year ago people on these forums said the game is dying. That’s less true now than it is then. Maybe Anet knows something you don’t. Maybe what they’re doing is actually working for them.
It may not be working for you, which is another issue altogether.
In the meantime, I think this game is gaining popularity, not losing it.
People whine because Anet gives them things nobody asked for instead of what they want. How long have people been asking for a LFG in game? Revamped dungeons and Champs? Hell, even the loot was terrible for months. People wanted fun, interesting end game, what they got was a grind for Ascended gear. Pretty sad, I can understand where most of the whine comes from.
I’m pretty sure that people asked for a lot of the stuff Anet has given us. For every person who said we want an LFG tool, someone in that thread said, no worries just use gw2lfg.com, it’s no problem. For every person who said we want revamped dungeons and champs, someone was complaining dungeons were too hard and there wasn’t enough stuff in the open world.
What you’re really saying is they didn’t do what you wanted. They’ve certainly addressed a lot of the people complaining about loot issues. The LFG tool is coming in less than 2 weeks. They’re addressing concerns. They just didn’t drop everything and address them all at once.
I could go to ANY MMO, no exceptions, and find a dev quote that isn’t true a few months after it’s made.
Honest question:
Would those dev quotes you find include statements that essentially claim that the previous statement was never true ?
I don’t know. Simple enough answer.
Communication in language is always fraught with difficulty. You could say something directly that you understand 100% and think no one else could possibly misunderstand…and then find out people have misunderstood. The manifesto line about grind is by far the best example of this.
Grind has 2 different possible meanings. Traditionally in MMOs you grind for levels…everything you farmed. Gear grind is a relatively new term in MMO terms. Now in the paragraph where Colin said, “we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2”, a lot of people took that to mean grind for gear. Yet there’s nothing in that paragraph at all to support that. Colin is talking about combat. He’s talking about killing the same boss over and over again to level, like we had to do in Aion. I understand this because that’s how I’ve always used the word grind. At no time did I ever think that there wouldn’t be some grind in the game…just not a grind to level.
It’s like when Anet said you can “play your own way”. They meant everyone can get to max level doing different stuff. You can level most of the way in WvW, or through crafting or just doing dynamic events in Queensdale without ever doing anything else.
At the end of the day, I’m not sure that what people hear is what is being said. Certainly a number of statements that have been called lies, I’ve interpreted differently than those who have claimed Anet was lying.|
And things DO change in MMOs. Anet went through great time and effort to talk about their iterative style and how they iterate and sometimes they go back and change entire systems. Taken with everything else, that seems to me to say they’re trying stuff and changing stuff all the time.
So the stuff that are statements that people take as promises are just that. Statements of intent. Everything else is something to play around with.
Basically anyone who thinks anything about an MMO is written in stone is likely to be disappointed.
I am not speaking of vague or open to interpretation statements whose wording can be taken to mean different things.
characters are intended to have max stat gear by level 80
vs
characters were not intended to have max stat gear that quickly.There is a huge difference between having to adapt to unexpected realities of a post launch game and claiming now that they never meant what they claimed back then.
I would not blame you for changing from a vegan restaurant to one that serves meat due to the needs of the business. But if you sold people a life time membership to your restaurant, which you advertised to them as vegan, for a one time fee and then changed your menu while claiming that you never intended it to be a vegan restaurant I would.
Yes, that’s a big difference. As big as adding meat to a vegetarian restaurant.
Anet saw the uptake of legendaries wasn’t working. They saw what people were saying. Believe it or not, they have many ways to judge who is doing what. My son, as I’ve said before, got his legendary and stopped playing. Now that ascended is back so is he, working on his ascended. For every guy like me, there’s a guy like him.
Anet made a decision before the game launched, saw that decision wasn’t quite working as they intended and changed the way they did business, kitten ing off the people who bought the game thinking it would be one way in the process. Anet did the same thing as adding meat to a vegetarian restaurant. There’s no real difference here.
What Anet tried to do was compromise. Not everyone is happy with the compromise and some people can’t live with it, but I’m wagering the bulk of players can….certainly the bulk of players that are playing now.
Which leaves a small, vocal disenfranchised group who aren’t going to stop complaining until the game loses money. There’s a whole lot of people playing the game right now. I’m not sure that would be true if ascended gear hadn’t been introduced.
I think I am going to take my own advice and leave the forums to those who enjoy it.
Sorry to see you go, but I understand your decision. It’s not easy out here. lol
I could go to ANY MMO, no exceptions, and find a dev quote that isn’t true a few months after it’s made.
Honest question:
Would those dev quotes you find include statements that essentially claim that the previous statement was never true ?
I don’t know. Simple enough answer.
Communication in language is always fraught with difficulty. You could say something directly that you understand 100% and think no one else could possibly misunderstand…and then find out people have misunderstood. The manifesto line about grind is by far the best example of this.
Grind has 2 different possible meanings. Traditionally in MMOs you grind for levels…everything you farmed. Gear grind is a relatively new term in MMO terms. Now in the paragraph where Colin said, “we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2”, a lot of people took that to mean grind for gear. Yet there’s nothing in that paragraph at all to support that. Colin is talking about combat. He’s talking about killing the same boss over and over again to level, like we had to do in Aion. I understand this because that’s how I’ve always used the word grind. At no time did I ever think that there wouldn’t be some grind in the game…just not a grind to level.
It’s like when Anet said you can “play your own way”. They meant everyone can get to max level doing different stuff. You can level most of the way in WvW, or through crafting or just doing dynamic events in Queensdale without ever doing anything else.
At the end of the day, I’m not sure that what people hear is what is being said. Certainly a number of statements that have been called lies, I’ve interpreted differently than those who have claimed Anet was lying.|
And things DO change in MMOs. Anet went through great time and effort to talk about their iterative style and how they iterate and sometimes they go back and change entire systems. Taken with everything else, that seems to me to say they’re trying stuff and changing stuff all the time.
So the stuff that are statements that people take as promises are just that. Statements of intent. Everything else is something to play around with.
Basically anyone who thinks anything about an MMO is written in stone is likely to be disappointed.
so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.
sounds like the typical complainer on these forums
Read my signature.
If I’d had time, I’d make a signature that says all MMOs evolve and change and Guild Wars 2 is no exception.
I could go to ANY MMO, no exceptions, and find a dev quote that isn’t true a few months after it’s made.
Your signature is meaningless.
So, everyone bullkittens so its ok for ANet to bullkitten too.
rofl
And yes, read my signature.
And gear treadmill is not evolution its devolution.
No, everyone doesn’t bullkitten. Every business reacts to the needs/desires of the largest share of their customer base…of they’re out of business before you know it.
If I opened up a vegetarian restaurant and I had 10 good customers and on one else, I’d go out of buiness. If I started serving meat, I’d lose those 10 good customers. They’d get mad at me, they’d curse me, they’d say I betrayed them, they say I lied.
Of course, those ten good customers weren’t about to volunteer to pay all my bills. So the can say anything they like and from their perspective it would be true, if ungenerous. From my perspective, I’d have a viable business, that was there for other people who might enjoy my style of cooking.
so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.
sounds like the typical complainer on these forums
Read my signature.
If I’d had time, I’d make a signature that says all MMOs evolve and change and Guild Wars 2 is no exception.
I could go to ANY MMO, no exceptions, and find a dev quote that isn’t true a few months after it’s made.
Your signature is meaningless.
If the only thing in this game to you is a legendary weapon…probably time for you to move on. The legendary weapon was always meant to be a long term goal. You’re supposed to be able to have fun doing other stuff and eventually get it.
If you can’t do that, then it might very well be the wrong game for you. On the other hand, some of us are having a ball.
About a week ago, when I took some pretty inexperienced guildies through Arah path 4 and we took down Simin. It was pretty cool.
One of my favorite stories comes from a guild mission. We were doing a rush and everyone in the guild had finshed but one guildie, who wasn’t on mumble with us. And the entire guild went back to the beginning and started escorting her with the time running out. She’d hit a trap and 12 healing wells were up in a sec. A creature would spawn and we’d decimate it almost before it knew where it was. And we led her through to the end. She finished it with seconds to spare.
And though she wasn’t on mumble with us, the cheering and the congratulations and this feeling of just helping someone through the puzzle was just magic.
Good times.
You know the game has no endgame when devs and fanboys tell others that endgame is everything in the game. Is standing in LA bored because there’s nothing to do endgame? Is walking from crating stations to TP endgame? Is WP across the map and talk to 73 npcs per LS quest endgame? Is crafting whatever you want some kind of rewarding endgame? Is exploring an empty world doing the most repetitive heart quests seen in a video game endgame? Or is the endgame so weak that some consider doing achievements that are added by metric tones every patch an endgame? GW2 has as much end game content as casual solo rpg’s such as Mass Effect 3. Everything is end game my %$#…
You know, this is a pretty shocking post from a guy who has gone on and on about how Anet lied to us and changed everything.
Anet said from the beginning the stuff you do at level cap is the same stuff you’ve been doing all along. If they’d broken that “promise” you’d have been the first guy to call them on it. Here they are doing exactly what they said they were going to do, and you’re complaining that they kept their word.
Some would call that hypocritical.
The lead developer hasn’t necessarily changed, but one thing has changed since before the game launched…the game launched. That’s what changed.
Before the game launched, Anet had no metrics on what players actually wanted. Who would keep playing and who would leave. They didn’t realize how fast the content locusts would consume content.
But this is the same mistake countless other mmo developers have made, most famously probably Bioware. There is no excuse for not realising how fast the content locusts would burn through the game. They have other mmos as their metric.
You don’t have other MMOs as a metric when you’re creating a game that has a different thought process.
So legendaries do take quite a while to get…even for content locusts. And there are a lot of them. However, because legendaries didn’t have higher stats, a lot of people avoided going for them. I know this because people have said it. I’m not going to do all that work for a skin.
Guild Wars 1 players, they’re fine with doing stuff for a skin. People from other games (arguably a big percentage of the playerbase aren’t). So Anet had to up the anti. Give the people from other games a reason to stay. They could know that content locusts would burn through stuff. They couldn’t know the uptake on cosmetic skins would be poor compared to what they expected.
This is the issue. Not just how fast people consume content, but how badly the roadblock they put in place for those people stood the test of time.
To me this should all be very simple. If you aren’t having fun in the game, it’s time to stop playing.
This isn’t an about face or anything like that. But the developers did give us a place to provide feedback on ascended gear, apparently didn’t read it, and have now (apparently) deleted it.
I would assume that the ONLY impact we can have on the game is either with the play / don’t play dichotomy. So, in some respects, if you aren’t upset enough to quit the game, Arena Net doesn’t care.
That’s were I’m at. I don’t play. I log on occasionally to check ingame mail. I’m certainly not even looking at the gem store. I’m hoping all those others who feel like I do also stop playing, and voice their opinions to ArenaNet.
I also hope that ArenaNet doesn’t completely misinterpret the whole thing and add more gear grind. But you never know. They don’t seem to be in touch, at all.
To their credit, the forums are kind of fun.
:/
You don’t play, but I’ve never seen the game busier. I’m not sure that you not playing or the percentage of people who have actually stopped is more than the number of people playing and liking the game.
So I don’t see how it can be a wake up call to Anet. The game is truly packed.
Hell, there’s someone in the guild who already forged his first ascended weapon. What did it take him? A week? And he did it without buying the mats on the auction house.
And how long has this person played GW2?
Since the beginning, but with quite an extended break in the middle sometimes.
I was pretty unhappy with the ascended gear changes too, not for myself, but for everyone else. I felt let down that there was so much to do to get one. But then I started breaking it down and looked at how much work it actually was. If you really hate dungeons it probably sucks quite bad. World events are quite fast and easy so I don’t see that as a big a problem.
But after hearing Colin’s Pax interview, the whole thing sat a bit easier with me. I still don’t love the idea. But I felt at least he was explaining the why it was done and that did make it easier for me. It felt a bit like the old Guild Wars 1 patch notes.
Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended. For Guild Wars 1 players this seems like a strange statement, but I’ve always known that this game would need more of a sustained player base to support than Guild Wars 1 would. I’ve said this many times.
So yes, I can accept the ascended gear…because it really doesn’t take as long as you think.
The funny bit is, it’s actually, in some ways, easier to make money now that it has ever been, because even some of the low level mats now have value again. It’s another stream of revenue for people who don’t care about getting an ascended item. You can get the mats and make the items without leveling all the way to 500 (you only have to get to 450) and you can still enjoy everything in the game, because the ascended gear won’t stop you from playing.
But yeah….it’s a dark day for Guild Wars 1 fans who were looking forward to an actual sequel.
The game is turning into the opposite of what they promised before release. Now with the ascended weapons (and soon armor) out in open, it’s a Grind Wars 2 for ore and shards.
I’m not sure if Anet changed lead developers or if it’s just a result of sleeping with NCsoft.
NcSoft has owned Arena Net since before Guild Wars 1 was published. I don’t think NcSoft is particularly behind the changes to the game.
The lead developer hasn’t necessarily changed, but one thing has changed since before the game launched…the game launched. That’s what changed.
Before the game launched, Anet had no metrics on what players actually wanted. Who would keep playing and who would leave. They didn’t realize how fast the content locusts would consume content.
Hell, there’s someone in the guild who already forged his first ascended weapon. What did it take him? A week? And he did it without buying the mats on the auction house.
Yeah it has changed and I’m not sure if it’s for the better. I will say that I haven’t played since the SAB patch has come out and that is the longest time that I’ve gone without playing. Some of that is due to my ambivalence toward the SAB itself and the other is my dislike for all of the ascended addition and changes due to that.
Or it could be that I’m just burnt out on the game. Does the game changing have anything to do with that? I’m not sure yet.
I’m not sure why not liking SAB would stop anyone from playing (unless maybe you were already looking for an excuse). It’s an easily ignored box in Rata Sum. If you didn’t like dungeons would you not play? Or jumping puzzles?
But I do understand being unhappy about the changes to ascended.
That said there are so many things Anet has done that I’ve really liked. The Bazarre of the Four Winds was great for me. I like the zone wide events too (particularly now that they’re more randomized). I love Sanctum Sprint and Southsun Survival.
But no game is going to please everyone.
Welcome to the forum….I like the content Anet comes out with (for the most part). I just wish I had more than two weeks to do some of it. lol
Wait… you can target things when not in a group?!?!?!
How????
I wondered about that, also. Perhaps Vayne is referring to the lack of mob tagging. That feature is not a change in GW2 — it’s been around since beta, at least. However, it is certainly a change to business as usual in MMO’s.
Nope…before the last patch, if you weren’t in a group, you couldn’t control T something to target it. It helps in big events, in case you go off target to get back on. Before the last patch you had to be in a group to place a target on a creature…and now you don’t.
And, we don’t need to know their reasons for a given change in order to judge it. We experience the effects in our game play; it only makes sense to judge it. I do agree that full communication of the rationale would diffuse negative reactions, especially if the rationale was rational.
I disagree with this completely. It’s like anything else. Why did you kill him? Never mind, I don’t need to know your reasons. But it was self defense. Doesn’t matter.
If Anet makes a change to the game that I don’t like, I want to know why. Sometimes, in spite of my objections, I can intellectually understand why the change was made and that makes it better for me. It may not make it better for you, but that’s another matter.
Take something as simple as a skill nerf. They nerf a skill and a bunch of people cry foul. But if you know exactly why the skill was nerfed..some people will still cry foul, but not nearly as many.
In Guild Wars 1, there was a section of the forum where devs explained why they did what they did and it’s one of the things I really liked about Guild Wars 1. The changes made sense, even if they didn’t seem to when I first read about/saw them.
Without context, there are lots of things that don’t really have any meaning at all.
You know…the forum’s not that bad. There are a handful of people, six or seven by count, who just love to poke fun at fans of the game and the game itself. If you take what they say personally, you’re probably doing exactly what they want you to do. Me personally, I find them entertaining. That’s why I encourage them.
Because the more they talk, the more obvious it is that they’re just here to stir up trouble and the easier it is for people to ignore them.
But there are also many who post negative posts here that are thought provoking, and genuinely expression concern about the game. Those posters should be encouraged to post and their ideas should be discussed.
This is a good game…which one day could be a great game…but in my opinion it’s got a ways to go before that happens.
There’s been an awful lot of talk about how this game has changed…much of it negative. And I can see where people are coming from. A lot of the changes in the game has made it less fun and more grind. While the grind is optional…it’s only borderline optional. That is to say, there’s pressure to get achievements, pressure to get certain gear. If some of that pressure is self-inflicted by players, well, it’s still pressure.
But there have also been some changes for the better, too. A lot of people don’t like guild missions, but having done the guild puzzles now…I think that’s brilliant content.
So many advances to the game have been made… not just stuff like Fractals or the AC revamp, but also stuff like marketplace preview, the account wallet, the ability to target something even if you’re not in a group, the end of culling, zone wide invasions, the mini game rotation, the living story. Indeed, this game is hardly recognizable as the game that originally drew many of us here.
Whether you like the changes or not is an individual decision. Naturally if you don’t like them, you have a right to complain about them. But I’ve never played any MMO that hasn’t changed drastically and I’ve never played any MMO where people didn’t cry the sky was falling every time a change was made. This is normal for the MMO genre.
Games change and evolve all the time. You have a choice when they do to leave or stay, to complain or accept. Those are your choices.
This game has changed a whole lot since its release. Whether those changes have been a mistake or not is largely a matter of opinion.
The over-riding question is why has so much changed? What has caused these changes to occur. Some people say greed. Some people say that Anet is catering to a small but vocal minority. Others claim that Anet is trying to satisfy everyone. Others say Anet is trying to appease the content locusts, or the gear grinders.
Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change. And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons.
I think it would be nice of patch notes would include not just changes, but notes behind the rational for changes.
I think this might help diffuse some of reactions people have to them.
Colin said they have people working on bigger/longer term projects, and that they haven’t decided the vehicle they’ll use to release that stuff, but it’s possible it can come in as part of the living story.
It’s also possible it can come out as an expansion. No decision has been made on that yet.
There were free transfers when the game launched. People would transfer to another server to spy on their WvW rivals. The reason for the server charge is to prevent guilds from moving easily from server to server, thus everyone goes to the winner servers, and no one is left defending the other ones.
The WvW players demanded a high price for a transfer and in fact, some have said the price isn’t high enough.
WoW is a game with a $15 a month sub that still charges $25 for a server transfer…and you can’t pay in in game gold to get that.
I’m not quite sure what your problem is OP.
Dont worry guys, Anet does not make grindy games™.
But NCSoft does. And they dont want to disapoint their eastern audience.
I’m not sure it’s NCSoft’s fault. That site with company reviews, Glassdoor, has an interesting and relatively recent entry about ArenaNet here. It’s a mostly positive review, but I like the cons:
Cons – Poor pay. Poor leadership. Many, many mangers, all with differing visions/opinions. Losing company culture to big business.
“Losing company culture to big business” is something I read as “selling out their core principles after finding out there are easier ways to make money”. Which IMO is exactly what has happened.
No, I’m arguing that I’m misunderstood in what I argue about. When language is used to mislead..or tacitly implicate…it’s sort of like a sneak attack. It’s the kind of thing lawyers and politicians do.
Indeed. And when they do so, it’s not just to argue for arguing. It’s to argue for winning. Like this:
And having recently fought a very long legal battle (which I won)
So when you say…
I don’t just argue to argue.
…It doesn’t really mean much.
That you think my words don’t mean much is something you’ve said before. And such comments are just as meaningless now was they were when you last spoke them. Like then, it matters not at all to me that you personally don’t feel what I have to say means very much. It’s dismissive and shows your mettle and that’s fine.
But you can only speak for yourself. What I say doesn’t mean much TO YOU. And there are others who would agree with you.
And there are those who actually quite like what I have to say. That’s sort of what forums are for, don’t you think?
I think I could say absolutely anything, and you’d dissect, quibble, and argue for the sake of it.
You’re wrong. I don’t argue about everything.
Are you arguing that your arguing about arguing is not arguably arguable?
No, I’m arguing that I’m misunderstood in what I argue about. When language is used to mislead..or tacitly implicate…it’s sort of like a sneak attack. It’s the kind of thing lawyers and politicians do.
And having recently fought a very long legal battle (which I won), I’m particularly sensitive to that use of language. It bothers me, so I comment on it.
Sorry if that bothers you, but that happens to be the truth.
I don’t just argue to argue.
And MMO with absolutely no grind is an MMO that won’t get played. The grind is what keeps people playing.
Maybe true with themeparks, not so with sandboxes. UO had pretty much no grind at all and I have played it far more hours than I’ll probably ever spend on GW2.
Adding grind is the developers way to keep players playing when they have no substantial content coming into the game. It’s a trick that they use instead of saying “we won’t have any good content coming out for another half year or ever”.
I’m still totally baffled why developers choose to go this road instead of creating tools that the players can use to create their own content. I’m not just talking about huge creation tools such as the Foundry in Neverwinter or the terraforming tools in Minecraft, but also simple tools like player faction PvP, simple event creation tools, or even just books/letters you can write on and pass to other players.
Sad truth is with Foundry Neverwinter will probably outlive GW2, even if the game itself has much lower production quality and an invasive P2W cash shop.
You’re right. In sandboxes, it’s not grind that keeps people playing…it’s also true that theme park MMOs get far more of a population than sandboxes….which is why people keep making them…and Guild Wars 2 is most definitely a theme-park. All the content is created by Anet.
I mean a game like Eve Online is considered amazingly successful with half a million subscriptions, the highest number they’ve ever had.
The problem with sand boxes is, though they dont’ have grind, you really do have to be married to them to get anywhere. People complain about the grind in themeparks, but it’s often sandboxes that are far more of a job, at least where MMORPGs are concerned.
On one hand, the world is busier than I’ve seen it in a long time. Obviously this has worked for them. It has done what Anet wanted it to do.
Thats the removal of culling.
No it’s not. I played the game after the removal of culling just as many hours a day as usual and the world wasn’t as busy as it was after this update.
Its called “streamlining players to farm spots”.
Try some non farm spots once in a while. But then, ascended wont craft itself. amiright?
Nope. you’re not right. I’m not talking about farm spots. I’m talking about leveling my alts in various zones around the world. I’m talking about being in Sparkfly fen today, when nothing else was going on and having half a dozen people join me to fight a champion risen megalodon. I’m talking about entering a couple of the mini dungeons, that weren’t getting much traffic. I’m talking about people running dungeons again. I’m talking about just playing the game.
As you might be aware, I don’t farm and don’t usually hang around farming spots.
I like when you dismiss your own argument.
I’m not dismissing anything. I’m saying that Anet has brought people back to the world with this new update, no matter what you think about it.
They can still funnel people into specific areas at will. What do you think zone wide invasions are about, and why do you think they kept them in the game as permanent content?
Anet has a plan. They may not have shared that plan with us, but in my experience, this company has reasons for what it does.
Just because you don’t understand those reasons doesn’t negate that they have them.
Doesn’t mean they’re player-friendly reasons, either.
What does play-friendly mean? Take the introduction of vertical progression. To you that’s not player friendly…to other people it is. The wallet was player friendly but some players complained about it.
I honestly don’t believe there’s anything that’s player friendly with a capital P.
I think I could say absolutely anything, and you’d dissect, quibble, and argue for the sake of it.
What do YOU think I meant, Vayne? Come on.
You’re wrong. I don’t argue about everything. There are many things that are done for the benefit of players that players don’t think are player friendly. Grind is one of those things.
And MMO with absolutely no grind is an MMO that won’t get played. The grind is what keeps people playing. Is it in player’s benefits not to grind? Well, sure. And not so sure.
What I’m saying is that you’re casting something here in black and white. We don’t know if their agenda is player friendly. If it’s good for the game, very often, it’s good for players who like the game.
I’m sure I know what you meant, but due to the way you phrased it, it has a lot of potential interpretations. It’s painting the possibility of this darker side of Anet, sitting there making decisions against their players.
And it’s all 100% speculation unless you work for the company.
On one hand, the world is busier than I’ve seen it in a long time. Obviously this has worked for them. It has done what Anet wanted it to do.
Thats the removal of culling.
No it’s not. I played the game after the removal of culling just as many hours a day as usual and the world wasn’t as busy as it was after this update.
Its called “streamlining players to farm spots”.
Try some non farm spots once in a while. But then, ascended wont craft itself. amiright?
Nope. you’re not right. I’m not talking about farm spots. I’m talking about leveling my alts in various zones around the world. I’m talking about being in Sparkfly fen today, when nothing else was going on and having half a dozen people join me to fight a champion risen megalodon. I’m talking about entering a couple of the mini dungeons, that weren’t getting much traffic. I’m talking about people running dungeons again. I’m talking about just playing the game.
As you might be aware, I don’t farm and don’t usually hang around farming spots.
I like when you dismiss your own argument.
I’m not dismissing anything. I’m saying that Anet has brought people back to the world with this new update, no matter what you think about it.
They can still funnel people into specific areas at will. What do you think zone wide invasions are about, and why do you think they kept them in the game as permanent content?
Anet has a plan. They may not have shared that plan with us, but in my experience, this company has reasons for what it does.
Just because you don’t understand those reasons doesn’t negate that they have them.
Doesn’t mean they’re player-friendly reasons, either.
What does play-friendly mean? Take the introduction of vertical progression. To you that’s not player friendly…to other people it is. The wallet was player friendly but some players complained about it.
I honestly don’t believe there’s anything that’s player friendly with a capital P.
On one hand, the world is busier than I’ve seen it in a long time. Obviously this has worked for them. It has done what Anet wanted it to do.
Thats the removal of culling.
No it’s not. I played the game after the removal of culling just as many hours a day as usual and the world wasn’t as busy as it was after this update.
Its called “streamlining players to farm spots”.
Try some non farm spots once in a while. But then, ascended wont craft itself. amiright?
Nope. you’re not right. I’m not talking about farm spots. I’m talking about leveling my alts in various zones around the world. I’m talking about being in Sparkfly fen today, when nothing else was going on and having half a dozen people join me to fight a champion risen megalodon. I’m talking about entering a couple of the mini dungeons, that weren’t getting much traffic. I’m talking about people running dungeons again. I’m talking about just playing the game.
As you might be aware, I don’t farm and don’t usually hang around farming spots.
I like when you dismiss your own argument.
I’m not dismissing anything. I’m saying that Anet has brought people back to the world with this new update, no matter what you think about it.
They can still funnel people into specific areas at will. What do you think zone wide invasions are about, and why do you think they kept them in the game as permanent content?
Anet has a plan. They may not have shared that plan with us, but in my experience, this company has reasons for what it does.
Just because you don’t understand those reasons doesn’t negate that they have them.
On one hand, the world is busier than I’ve seen it in a long time. Obviously this has worked for them. It has done what Anet wanted it to do.
Thats the removal of culling.
No it’s not. I played the game after the removal of culling just as many hours a day as usual and the world wasn’t as busy as it was after this update.
Its called “streamlining players to farm spots”.
Try some non farm spots once in a while. But then, ascended wont craft itself. amiright?
Nope. you’re not right. I’m not talking about farm spots. I’m talking about leveling my alts in various zones around the world. I’m talking about being in Sparkfly fen today, when nothing else was going on and having half a dozen people join me to fight a champion risen megalodon. I’m talking about entering a couple of the mini dungeons, that weren’t getting much traffic. I’m talking about people running dungeons again. I’m talking about just playing the game.
As you might be aware, I don’t farm and don’t usually hang around farming spots.
Many carrot chasers pictured.
Maybe, maybe not. The addition of Rift-style zone wide events hasn’t hurt the game, no matter who’s doing those events.
I’m not a carrot chaser (for example it’ll be a long time before I get an ascended weapon), but I still enjoy zone wide invasions.
On one hand, the world is busier than I’ve seen it in a long time. Obviously this has worked for them. It has done what Anet wanted it to do.
Thats the removal of culling.
No it’s not. I played the game after the removal of culling just as many hours a day as usual and the world wasn’t as busy as it was after this update.
I used to say all the time on the Rift forums, if I’d wanted gear grind, I’d have become a watchmaker.
There is grind in this game, but for the most part it’s optional grind. Ascended items push that boundary quite far, particularly the new ascended weapons. I personally have no problem with them, but it does up the power curve and for casual players, they’re not all that easy to get.
Still, I think the problem is everyone wants everything now. If you take these as long term goals, they’re really not that bad.
No you get your head outside of you know what. If I don’t like the direction where the game is going I have the right to voice my opinion. I like GW2, it was more than worth the 60 bucks but I’d like to keep playing for longer and adding grinding in spades just to get BiS slot will hurt my enjoyment of the game.
And heck no, a casual player isn’t gonna have 105 globs of ecto, 105 t6 mats, 500+ orichalcum ores, 500+ ancient wood logs, 80k karma (karma nerf anyone?), 900 mithril ores and whatever else you need to craft your first weapon. I compiled the list earlier but the thread was deleted, not worth posting it again because people are gonna tell me that 100 keeps to get enough empyreal fragments for 1 weapon is okay.
I would like to stop playing my Guardian for once and bring my Necro in WvW, but to think that I lose 2,5k HP + bonuses from WvW ranks and go from full ascendeds to full exotics…
P.s. plz stop spreading misinformation, they didn’t state ascended is gonna be the last tier. Check Colin’s latest interview
You mean where he said it should be the last tier, other than legendary, unless something happens like a new game director who can change it then?
He said last tier for 2013. That doesn’t mean there will be a new tier in 2014, he had to play it safe in any case. As others said, there is always a chance for a change in management/direction, let’s hope it won’t happen in 2014.
Actually that’s not what he said. You’re referring to an older statement, which was replaced by a newer statement in the PAX video interview.
What he basically said was he hopes this is the last tier and he certainly things that it will be, but he can’t tell that 7 years in the future it might not change, or that someone else couldn’t buy the company and it would change.
Join a guild and play with people who are like-minded. That’s what I did.
No you get your head outside of you know what. If I don’t like the direction where the game is going I have the right to voice my opinion. I like GW2, it was more than worth the 60 bucks but I’d like to keep playing for longer and adding grinding in spades just to get BiS slot will hurt my enjoyment of the game.
And heck no, a casual player isn’t gonna have 105 globs of ecto, 105 t6 mats, 500+ orichalcum ores, 500+ ancient wood logs, 80k karma (karma nerf anyone?), 900 mithril ores and whatever else you need to craft your first weapon. I compiled the list earlier but the thread was deleted, not worth posting it again because people are gonna tell me that 100 keeps to get enough empyreal fragments for 1 weapon is okay.
I would like to stop playing my Guardian for once and bring my Necro in WvW, but to think that I lose 2,5k HP + bonuses from WvW ranks and go from full ascendeds to full exotics…
P.s. plz stop spreading misinformation, they didn’t state ascended is gonna be the last tier. Check Colin’s latest interview
You mean where he said it should be the last tier, other than legendary, unless something happens like a new game director who can change it then?
Let’s be real here. What guy can guarantee that he won’t be fired and replaced by someone else, or that someone else won’t buy the company?
Your comments are completely unreasonable.
While I have no problem with how the ascended weapons are laid out personally, I think it does go against the grain of the game that Anet has been telling us about. I’m not necessarily surprised by this, but I can definitely see why people are annoyed/disturbed/angry.
On one hand, the world is busier than I’ve seen it in a long time. Obviously this has worked for them. It has done what Anet wanted it to do.
But the obvious question is what does Anet do the next time that the world starts to die down?
I wonder this, too. I think the locusts are going to head for the next AAA MMO releases, as they always do, and the game will be left with those who really like it. Unfortunately, I think ArenaNet have alienated many of their Guild Wars playerbase…so yea…how many will remain?
Moreover, what sort of gamers will remain? What kind of game will these gamers like? Will ArenaNet work towards that sort of player? Or try to continue on the current path and win back the locusts?
Most of what I’ve read about the future of GW2 appears to have been left deliberately nebulous…maybe there’ll be more tier gear. Maybe there will be a higher level cap. Maybe not. I think the not knowing is upsetting people, too.
This strikes me as a very interesting discussion. You might start a new topic on that, if you feel inclined. I’ll chime in.
I’ll pass on the new topic…but if anyone else feels like creating it go ahead. I’m spending less time on the forums. I don’t really like what it’s doing to my naturally tolerant temperament. lol
I think your problem, OP is that you think that every achievement should be completably without jumping.
There are jumping achievements and non-jumping achievements. You don’t have to get them all. That’s in your head. I know this because it was in my head for a while, till I thought about it.
I don’t need every achievement point. I do what I think is fun. We just had an entire month of living story where not one achievement required jumping. This month we have a bunch of achievements that require jumping. This will give me a much needed rest from the LS and allow me to catch up on other things.
While I have no problem with how the ascended weapons are laid out personally, I think it does go against the grain of the game that Anet has been telling us about. I’m not necessarily surprised by this, but I can definitely see why people are annoyed/disturbed/angry.
On one hand, the world is busier than I’ve seen it in a long time. Obviously this has worked for them. It has done what Anet wanted it to do.
But the obvious question is what does Anet do the next time that the world starts to die down?
Threatening?? No.. Comical…
Games evolve… And this thread is stemming from an interview taken from September of 2011.
Some of us based our purchase decision on that kind of information you know. I could nearly be grounds for a lawsuit even no? False advertising.
You have no grounds for a lawsuit. For a period of time what was said was true and arguably at that point, you’d have gotten your money’s worth out of it. And while the TOS isn’t actually legally binding, there are terms in there about changing the game that I suspect most courts would accept.
At any rate, for a reasonable amount of time you were entitled to a refund which Anet would have given you.
How have they changed the mechanics of the game?
A tread mill is a mill of treads. Lots and lots of steps. Hence the term.
One new tier of gear does not a treadmill make…particularly when it’s been a year since that tier was introduced and it’s not fully introduced yet.
Hi Intense…there are a lot of people who love this game and a lot of people who don’t. Until you play it, you won’t know which you are.
Which type of PvP are you interested in. Because you don’t have to gear up at all to play structured PvP. You’ll be geared up as soon as you enter it.
Don’t forget to hit the Scarlet invasions when they spawn too, that’s lots of money, and some mats as well. Not to mention a lot of stuff to salvage to get your magic find up (which will help you with money long term).
I just wish they’d design content that didn’t have anything to do with tier gear. I’d rather have a new dungeon. Or even have them fix one of the existing ones. Or even spend more time making the LS actually good….
They fired their dungeon designer ,don’t expect any new dungeons soon.
what really? firing their dungeon designer for?
According to Robert he wanted to make a permanent dungeon that withstood time instead of temporary dungeons.I think he must have offended the higher ups for not realizing his dream and following their plan so he got the boot.
Right because no one ever lost a job and told their side of the story. It’s funny how we love to accept someone at their word that that’s all that happened. You really don’t think there was more to it than that?
Hm, i just need emp crystals apparently, and time. So im on track.
How you say?
IM JUST PLAYING THE GAME
The cool thing to do now is salvage everything you get, go to different zones (you wont just get 80 loot all the time) . Even in wvw killing lower players gives me lower end loot. Or i get badges, which then i buy prints and sell on tp, then buy lower loot to salvage.
I’m playing a game – fractals. I get ~100 bloodstones, 49 empyreal fragments, 0 dragonite ores and 1-2g for 1-2 hours of work.
Highlighted the parts of your post which summarise the flaw in your argument, and is a fundamental flaw within the gaming community.
I think its time many people re-evaluate their reasoning for playing MMORPGS.
I worked on my golf swing today. I worked on my tan.
The usage of the word work, in this case, isn’t necessarily used to denote employment or something unpleasant.
Ok mr semantics, ill bite. Pointing out the fact he used play and work in the same argument was merely an attempt at showing the OPs logical fallacy, the difference between the ideas of work and play are especially related to this topic.
Play is fundamental within the sense of timelessness. Play is centered around being in the moment and enjoying it, not caring about future worries or past anxieties. Work is undesirable effort that is put into a common goal or purpose, heavily relying on the future. The difference between my understanding and that of the average MMO player is the fact that work is unavoidable in most cases of achievement or success, its all about how you view that ‘work’ in relativity to your ‘play’.
For example;
To use your analogy;
I worked on my golf swing today = I put alot of effort into my swing today, knowing my game will improve because of it, the ends justify the means to me or I simply wouldn’t bother.
I worked on my tan = I put alot of effort into my tan, knowing I will feel more confident and attractive with it, the end justifys the means to me or I simply wouldn’t bother.This is key and this is what alot of gamers dont consider, the acceptance of this will not only free you from any forced grind or sense of duty, but also allow you to begin looking at making your ‘Work’ as much like ‘Play’ as possible.
You don’t put effort into working on a tan. You lie there…the sun puts in the effort. Hardly work in the traditional sense.
Every game with progression requires some sort of “working toward a goal”. You claim that work isn’t enjoyable, but you know, that’s only your perception. To some people working toward a goal can be very enjoyable. People work on hobbies all the time. I work on my stamp collection. It’s not really work.
And from the posters response, even he didn’t intend it that way.
I truly appreciate the value you put on correct use of language. I kind of feel, however, that you’re tending to quibble over semantics at the expense of the point. I think I’d rather see more pertinent arguments supporting the actual content, rather than critiques of language, as it were.
Look, someone posted something…and another forum poster called out the word “work” in his post. Based on the posters comment, he didn’t mean work that way. The forum poster to whom I am responding was the first person to use semantics and I was arguing against HIS semantics, because he was using them to destroy the meaning of what the first poster said.
I didn’t start a conversation about work. I started a conversation about how someone attacked the meaning in someone else’s post and you jumped in.
If you really wanted to make this not about semantics, you’d have attacked the guy you agree with instead of trying to contradict me.
Hm, i just need emp crystals apparently, and time. So im on track.
How you say?
IM JUST PLAYING THE GAME
The cool thing to do now is salvage everything you get, go to different zones (you wont just get 80 loot all the time) . Even in wvw killing lower players gives me lower end loot. Or i get badges, which then i buy prints and sell on tp, then buy lower loot to salvage.
I’m playing a game – fractals. I get ~100 bloodstones, 49 empyreal fragments, 0 dragonite ores and 1-2g for 1-2 hours of work.
Highlighted the parts of your post which summarise the flaw in your argument, and is a fundamental flaw within the gaming community.
I think its time many people re-evaluate their reasoning for playing MMORPGS.
I worked on my golf swing today. I worked on my tan.
The usage of the word work, in this case, isn’t necessarily used to denote employment or something unpleasant.
Ok mr semantics, ill bite. Pointing out the fact he used play and work in the same argument was merely an attempt at showing the OPs logical fallacy, the difference between the ideas of work and play are especially related to this topic.
Play is fundamental within the sense of timelessness. Play is centered around being in the moment and enjoying it, not caring about future worries or past anxieties. Work is undesirable effort that is put into a common goal or purpose, heavily relying on the future. The difference between my understanding and that of the average MMO player is the fact that work is unavoidable in most cases of achievement or success, its all about how you view that ‘work’ in relativity to your ‘play’.
For example;
To use your analogy;
I worked on my golf swing today = I put alot of effort into my swing today, knowing my game will improve because of it, the ends justify the means to me or I simply wouldn’t bother.
I worked on my tan = I put alot of effort into my tan, knowing I will feel more confident and attractive with it, the end justifys the means to me or I simply wouldn’t bother.This is key and this is what alot of gamers dont consider, the acceptance of this will not only free you from any forced grind or sense of duty, but also allow you to begin looking at making your ‘Work’ as much like ‘Play’ as possible.
You don’t put effort into working on a tan. You lie there…the sun puts in the effort. Hardly work in the traditional sense.
Every game with progression requires some sort of “working toward a goal”. You claim that work isn’t enjoyable, but you know, that’s only your perception. To some people working toward a goal can be very enjoyable. People work on hobbies all the time. I work on my stamp collection. It’s not really work.
And from the posters response, even he didn’t intend it that way.