Guild Wars 2

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

Hrithmus.2583:

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

Because they know its pointless. Whatever they would say themselves has been said many times over by regular players. Did any of that chance a single opinion of either side?

A post by the devs would be counter productive. All it would do is cause more rage in the end.

Yes, everyone knows that they dont have anything to say that would calm it down, and they certainly cant say the truth so they just ignore it and hope it goes away

They have said the truth. The truth is that exotics didn’t take long enough to get. Do you know how many people hit level cap in this game and left because there was nothing for them to do? The forums were full of such posts.

It’s not like 3 guys in a room made all of them.

Really, few whiners whining on a forum made them introduce gear grind treadmill to GW2?

You know theres no Santa, right?

And you know this how? Tell me? Were you present at the meetings Anet had about it? Do you know for a fact that they based their decision on a few whiners? Do you know anything about what happened back then at all?

Because all you’re really doing is making general assumptions with nothing to back them up and stating them as fact.

The only fact here is that you don’t actually know why Anet introduced ascended gear at all or in this form, and that you’re claiming it was a few posts on the forums.

We do know from things Anet has said in the past they have tremendous ability to see and intepret what and how people are playing. I’m relatively certain it wasn’t just a few posts on a forum that caused Anet’s reaction. Feel free to try to prove me wrong.

Watch the Pax interview with Colin. That’s as close to a reply as you’re going to get.

Great post, OP and a much needed change from the normal forum infighting. Glad you’re enjoying the game and good luck in sticking with a profession in the future (says the guy with four mains and 6 80s. lol).

MikaHR.1978:

Galen Grey.4709:

Hrithmus.2583:

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

Because they know its pointless. Whatever they would say themselves has been said many times over by regular players. Did any of that chance a single opinion of either side?

A post by the devs would be counter productive. All it would do is cause more rage in the end.

Yes, everyone knows that they dont have anything to say that would calm it down, and they certainly cant say the truth so they just ignore it and hope it goes away

They have said the truth. The truth is that exotics didn’t take long enough to get. Do you know how many people hit level cap in this game and left because there was nothing for them to do? The forums were full of such posts.

It’s not like 3 guys in a room made all of them.

Death Diablos.6702:

but what makes tequatl so special?? and why does the title say “Rising”?

Maybe because Tquatl is rising up from the depths of the ocean. It could be that simple.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Cactus.2710:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

MikaHR.1978:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Cactus.2710:

They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.

Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…

They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.

What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.

No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….

You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.

Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.

Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.

Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?

I would very much like to see where those hordes are, because or REALLY (and i mean really really) varied people that play/played never ever was feedback that they want gear treadmill/moar loot. I could tell you that crapload of people quit because theres no “classic gameplay” with tab-combat and trinity. So what, do we expect classic tab combat and trinity now?

NO, they did it on their own accord. They sat one day and decided to go 180 and induced gear treadmill. Wrong answer to the wrong problem. Continuing with ascended weapons only confirms that as, they AGAIN had the chance to stop it.

I wish they had the approach like EvE (and they did) but suddenly, 2 months after launch, approach changed to be like any other failed WoW clone out there (with a nice dose of Korean grinder to make it worse)

So what do you think they based their decisions on. You make it sound so glib. They just decided…based on nothing.

My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.

Ahhh, the mighty metric

looks at trail of failed WoW clones im sure they all used the mighty metric.

That you see this game as a WoW clone shows that you don’t get the game at all. Since most people I talk to don’t see it as a WoW clone, you’ve just shown to me that you’re not in touch with the playerbase of this game.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Some people are complaining about the grind and some people are complaining about the time gating, and can live with the grind. It’s not all one party. You’re not all saying the same thing.

Except both the timegating and the grind are tied to VP. Again, neither would be the problem if not for the VP. VP would not be the problem if not for timegating and grind. All these three things are interconnected.

Also, i have noticed that while he was talking about tiers, he said absolutely nothing about raising level cap. And i still remember Anet’s statement that they’ll “definitely” do that.

Vayne.8563:

My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.

Considering that the locust leaving was something that could have been predicted beforehand, and yet they still did panic, i have a reason to question their ability to interpret those metrics.

Anet ran Guild Wars 1. There’s no reason for them to think that they couldn’t get and keep enough people. Their thought process, which I shared before it happened, was that people would go for the cosmetic only upgrades if the game was fun enough…except that some people care about efficiency over fun. Anet wasn’t prepared for that. Saying they should have been is your opinion. I don’t think it’s so easy to know what will happen when you try something for the second time that worked the first time on a smaller scale.

But people want to play the way they want…meaning doing the absolutely minimum they can to get the absolute best pay off. What’s the point of even playing at all.

There is definitely an element of grind in the new weapons, OP, but like everything else in this game, just by playing you’ll eventually get it.

The grind is only a grind people people want stuff now.

Galen Grey.4709:

Hrithmus.2583:

353 replies and 7373 Views on this post and not one Dev Reply yet. Man they must be scared?

Because they know its pointless. Whatever they would say themselves has been said many times over by regular players. Did any of that chance a single opinion of either side?

A post by the devs would be counter productive. All it would do is cause more rage in the end.

This is true. Everyone paid for the game, I don’t see how devs taking sides would help at all.

MikaHR.1978:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Cactus.2710:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

MikaHR.1978:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Cactus.2710:

They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.

Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…

They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.

What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.

No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….

You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.

Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.

Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.

Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?

I would very much like to see where those hordes are, because or REALLY (and i mean really really) varied people that play/played never ever was feedback that they want gear treadmill/moar loot. I could tell you that crapload of people quit because theres no “classic gameplay” with tab-combat and trinity. So what, do we expect classic tab combat and trinity now?

NO, they did it on their own accord. They sat one day and decided to go 180 and induced gear treadmill. Wrong answer to the wrong problem. Continuing with ascended weapons only confirms that as, they AGAIN had the chance to stop it.

I wish they had the approach like EvE (and they did) but suddenly, 2 months after launch, approach changed to be like any other failed WoW clone out there (with a nice dose of Korean grinder to make it worse)

So what do you think they based their decisions on. You make it sound so glib. They just decided…based on nothing.

My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.

Klawlyt.6507:

morrolan.9608:

Probably not but I think this applies: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

I like that. A lot. Mind if I borrow it?

Even though I didn’t say it, I know you can borrow it, because it’s not an original line. That saying has been around forever.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

And yes it was a kittenstorm. I get that. I know a lot of people who left that were major fans of the game. But I don’t think they were all that reasonable. Because they took a business decision personally.

I don’t think thakittens unreasonable for the people you mention to have left due to dissatisfaction with the game.

I also do not think that it is unreasonable to take personally a business decision that affects you personally.

Difference of opinion then. Stuff can affect me personally without me taking it personally. I don’t think it’s good or healthy for people to take stuff not intended to hurt them personally. It certainly makes people less happy in life.

The simplest analogy is that someone says they’re coming over and then, due to circumstances beyond their control, they don’t show up. I could take it personally…but is that actually reasonable? Does it help you or the other person?

People who haven’t played this game in months, still come here to complain about how they were “lied” to, how Anet screwed them over. This is reasonable behavior.

Even if I felt bad at the time someone didn’t show up, I’d certainly have let it go months later.

And if you think it’s better for people to hold onto this stuff and be enraged, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I felt about Rift much the way a lot of people feel about Guild Wars 2. But after I left the game, I walked away and never looked back. Because some people enjoy what that game has become and why should I ruin their fun?

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

Anet saw the writing on the wall, decided to act to save the game. Because what are the odds that someone at Anet woke up one morning and said, “You know those fans that love our game? Kitten them?”

Do you really think that’s how it went down…because I don’t.

Probably not but I think this applies: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

You know, it may well have been stupid. It was more likely panicked. I’m pretty sure that’s what happened.

I’m also not sure if it were my millions invested, I wouldn’t have similarly panicked.

When I was in management, I know I made some bad, bad calls. But you do what you have to at the time and you move on.

The problem is no one is moving on. This is done. Ascended gear is here. It’s annoying to those of us who wanted cosmetic only progression. But I can’t say with any degree of certainty that the game could have continued with just cosmetic gear, even if it worked in Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 2 has a much higher overhead and probably needs a lot more people to be successful.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

dalendria.3762:

Morrigan.2809:

Colin did say that they want Ascended to be the last tier- thank the six!
Housing! YaY!

I watched this as well. He said that “he” hopes it is the last tier. He did not confirm that it will be the last tier.

snip

Why not just come right out and say it? Because any time anyone says anything, if it later changes at any point, people start calling Anet liars. I don’t blame him for hedging his bets.

So you agree that it is all pretty meaningless and if they change their mind they can announce new tier tomorrow.

Thank you.

No I didn’t agree to that at all. It’s because of people like you that he has to hedge his bets. People out there recording every single thing mentioned, discussed, thought about and calling it a promise.

I believe Colin has every intention of making this the last tier of gear and I believe that is likely to happen.

They made their own bed there.

Regardless of what they actually did or did not say a lot of people were unpleasantly surprised when they found out exotic was not the end of it. You can’t possibly deny the kittenstorm that it when ascended gear was announced. Anet even apologised in the end for how they handled it.

A lot of people were expecting a game with max stats set like in GW1. I believe that the original people who were working there years ago probably did have that in mind, but reality is it isn’t.

So people want some certainty from Anet and they’re not getting it. You’re right, they don’t want to make any definite statements with an eye on the future, but here’s the thing: a lot of people apparently do want a definite statement about this.

Anet is not owned by Anet for a while now. They don’t control their destinies any more. It is the reality of things and I understand why they don’t want to give a definite answer, but that’s just not good enough for a bunch of people out there.

And it’s their own fault that a lot of people have this expectation of them. Their tone has changed over the years and not everyone saw it. They certainly didn’t do anything to wake people up about it.

But this is what it has come to now. For me the reality is that the Anet I knew for years, no longer exists. For me that’s a harsh realisation because I very much enjoyed those years, but you can’t blame players for being upset about this.

It was a big discussion last year and it hasn’t been resolved to the satisfaction of the people who thought they were getting a game that had fixed max stats. Then it wasn’t and level cap raises were mentioned.

Say what you want Vayne, but this discussion won’t go away. It will keep coming back and it will only stop with all those people quitting the game.

It’s fair enough if Anet wanted to take a different direction, but they could’ve told people more clearly about this and they didn’t. They tried to sneak it in and it backfired.

Will the majority of players quit over this? I don’t think so, but it just doesn’t feel like they’ve been very honest over time.

Now they are being honest, a lot of people find out they don’t actually like what they are saying. Oh well, 3.5 million boxes sold…so kitten those players right?

You’re right from one perspective and wrong from another. The “kitten those players” line is just how you feel, not what they thought. Attributing that to then puts you in a position of a mind reader. You don’t know if it was hard or easy, if they felt bad or didn’t feel bad. I’m pretty sure they felt it had to be done. I’m also pretty sure there were factions arguing against it who lost. Those guys feel even worse.

The point is, Anet said some stuff in the years leading up to the game some of which was misunderstood and some of which might not have been communicated very well and some of it was said casually and ended up being seen as a promise. No MMO, however, can predict what happens when launch comes.

I consider myself a reasonable man. I see a business with millions of dollars in investment and see it start to slip away. They try a couple of things, but they’re losing the battle. So they make a change…something that can be done quickly to stem the tide of people leaving. That was the fractals.

And yes it was a kittenstorm. I get that. I know a lot of people who left that were major fans of the game. But I don’t think they were all that reasonable. Because they took a business decision personally.

Anet saw the writing on the wall, decided to act to save the game. Because what are the odds that someone at Anet woke up one morning and said, “You know those fans that love our game? Kitten them?”

Do you really think that’s how it went down…because I don’t.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I like achievement and i have a lot of free time (part-time job) but even I agree with OP. The pace is waaaaay to fast. And the content ends. Living story is no more then a temporary Dynamic event. Once it’s gone, it’s gone for eternity. In gw1 a superior mission (aka living story here, but much better), you could repeat it as many times until you were bored. I repeated some missions ovre 50 times, cause they were so much fun. Now in gw2 i don’t have freedom, YOU (anet) dictate me what to do, and because of it I get bored faster (not slower).

Comparing the living story to missions in Guild Wars 1 is comparing two different types of content.

First of all, missions in Guild Wars 1 were much simpler shorter affairs. The longest mission in hard mode doesn’t take 20 minutes. A single zone wide event in the last LS ran for 40 and it was one of many things.

There were 25 missions in Prophecies, 13 in Factions and 20 in Nightfall for a grand total of 58 missions all up in the first three games, or roughly two years. At the one year mark where we are now you only had 38 missions. Of the 38 missions, how many were actually “fun”. I didn’t like many of the missions in the Maguuma Jungle. Thunderhead Keep? Maybe not.

There were fun missions, I do agree, but comparing them to the living story? Take the last month. You had the Queen’s Gauntlet for those who want harder challenge. You had the zone wide events for people who enjoyed big open world zergs (and the pavillion before that). You had a couple of cut scenes that total the story. You had a new mini-dungeon with a couple of separate achievements in that. Though it was easyish, I quite liked the mini dungeon.

You had the ballooon which introduced new events.

And you’re comparing this to A mission? Which mission?

Do you know why I did missions 50 times in Guild Wars 1? Because I’d already done everything else and there was nothing left to do but those missions. And while they were fun, I’d have preferred new content to repeating the same missions.

The question is, two years down the track as more stuff stays from LS (like the Scarlet Invasions), which came will have more fun content?

Open world PvE or dungeon PvE.

If you’re looking for high end challenging PvE it’s warrior, guardian or mesmer. Any profession is actually viable, but those are the easiest.

If you’re looking for open world survivability, then ranger and necro are very good.

Actually necros have come a long way since you’ve played.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Namu.5712:

MikaHR.1978:

Namu.5712:

BondageBill.4021:

Would you mind transcribing the exact quote: question and answer? Can’t watch the video ATM.

Basically he says ascended is the last tier of gear your gonna see, not counting legendary’s.

Basically he is saying NOTHING like that.

Basically he is pretty much not saying anything about it. “i hope there no new tier” rofl

Oh and look, one more of these misleading threads.

You need to read his whole answer not just what you want to hear.

“The tiers that we have are what we like. We’re really happy with them, with the time it takes to get them and I don’t see any need, any time in the near future for us to even consider adding another tier of gear.”

They were also happy at launch. Took 2 months to cave in to the whiners.

And yes, they still have a crapload of tier to release, enough grind to put Korean grinders to shame, and then it will probably be level cap raise which will obsolete ALL your gear.

True dat

Cave into the whiners, huh? And if they changed it to what you wanted now, how would that be any different.

Everything in life is about perspective. You see them as caving into the whiners. I see them as making a tough business decision that probably wasn’t that comfortable for them. I do believe they were probably in panic mode.

The next time you invest millions of dollars into a project and you see it struggling, let’s see if you cave into the whiners.

Any proof on ANYTHING you say? No? Thought so. Perspective.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. It’s in every single post you make. I’m not the only one who sees it.

There are people who don’t like the game and surprise, they attack the game. And they attack anyone who likes the game.

Seems to me that you don’t have proof of anything you’ve said, just opinion. In my opinion, it’s clear what Colin is saying. And it’s clear why he’s hedging his bets as well. Do you have any proof he’s doing otherwise? Because technically you’re the one skewing what’s being said here. I’m taking it more or less at face value.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

dalendria.3762:

Morrigan.2809:

Colin did say that they want Ascended to be the last tier- thank the six!
Housing! YaY!

I watched this as well. He said that “he” hopes it is the last tier. He did not confirm that it will be the last tier.

He said he didn’t want to say it would be the last tier because 7 years down the road they might change their mind or someone might even buy the company, but as of now, there is no intention to add more tiers.

That’s a whole lot more than just he “hopes” it’s the last tier.

Why not just come right out and say it? Because any time anyone says anything, if it later changes at any point, people start calling Anet liars. I don’t blame him for hedging his bets.

So you agree that it is all pretty meaningless and if they change their mind they can announce new tier tomorrow.

Thank you.

No I didn’t agree to that at all. It’s because of people like you that he has to hedge his bets. People out there recording every single thing mentioned, discussed, thought about and calling it a promise.

I believe Colin has every intention of making this the last tier of gear and I believe that is likely to happen.

MikaHR.1978:

Namu.5712:

MikaHR.1978:

Namu.5712:

BondageBill.4021:

Would you mind transcribing the exact quote: question and answer? Can’t watch the video ATM.

Basically he says ascended is the last tier of gear your gonna see, not counting legendary’s.

Basically he is saying NOTHING like that.

Basically he is pretty much not saying anything about it. “i hope there no new tier” rofl

Oh and look, one more of these misleading threads.

You need to read his whole answer not just what you want to hear.

“The tiers that we have are what we like. We’re really happy with them, with the time it takes to get them and I don’t see any need, any time in the near future for us to even consider adding another tier of gear.”

They were also happy at launch. Took 2 months to cave in to the whiners.

And yes, they still have a crapload of tier to release, enough grind to put Korean grinders to shame, and then it will probably be level cap raise which will obsolete ALL your gear.

True dat

Cave into the whiners, huh? And if they changed it to what you wanted now, how would that be any different.

Everything in life is about perspective. You see them as caving into the whiners. I see them as making a tough business decision that probably wasn’t that comfortable for them. I do believe they were probably in panic mode.

The next time you invest millions of dollars into a project and you see it struggling, let’s see if you cave into the whiners.

dalendria.3762:

Morrigan.2809:

Colin did say that they want Ascended to be the last tier- thank the six!
Housing! YaY!

I watched this as well. He said that “he” hopes it is the last tier. He did not confirm that it will be the last tier.

He said he didn’t want to say it would be the last tier because 7 years down the road they might change their mind or someone might even buy the company, but as of now, there is no intention to add more tiers.

That’s a whole lot more than just he “hopes” it’s the last tier.

Why not just come right out and say it? Because any time anyone says anything, if it later changes at any point, people start calling Anet liars. I don’t blame him for hedging his bets.

xephire.8324:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Vol.5241:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Increased MF will not help with precursor drops.

Trust me, with a very high MF before the patch, exotics and rares were not raining from the sky. Just an increase in blue/greens and higher level crafting materials (T5 instead of T4 for example).

Besides, most of the player base whined about MF and about how useless it was. That is why they removed it in the first place. Not sure how rewarding them with an extra free 20% MF made sense, but who really cares.

Don’t over estimate the value of MF.

MF will not help with precursor drops, yes, but MF absolutely did work in the long-run and with a large enouh sample size.

Check sig for proof.

Also, MF alone doesn’t help you get exotics. High MF + lots of mobs and tagging does in the long run.

So in other words, a slot machine with a prettier interface? Still sad to me that so many people are content with this kind of game design in mmorpgs.

As long as they make $$$$ out of it.They will continue to implement it.

This is true. As long as they make money at it, they will continue to implement it. And if they’re making money at it, then obviously not everyone is against it…or they wouldn’t be making money. Everyone would have packed up and left. Everybody hasn’t.

And the last time I checked, most business were in business to make money. I never really did think Anet was making this game out of the goodness of their hearts. They were making a product to make money.

If it was as bad as you keep saying it is, they wouldn’t be making money.

I don’t know, Stooperdale..I just see it as a long term goal, not something I need to get now or tomorrow. I’ll peck away at it when I feel like it. And that’s it.

I did get one crafting profession to 450 today because I had what I needed lying around. Eventually, I’ll either buy or get the mats through playing to go further…but not anytime soon.

Raine.1394:

Namu.5712:

There you have it.

Now stop coming here and complaining non-stop.

Ascended is basically it gear wise.

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=104

I’m afraid that you don’t understand the issue. It’s not Ascended gear, it’s vertical progression. Colin says here that it ‘should’ be the last tier not that it will be the last tier. More importantly, last November they said, essentially, the same thing—that there were no plans for additional tiers of rarity. They intended to move vertical progression on through infusions to the existing tier of gear. Since the ascended tier is not the problem, and VP very much is, only a statement which specifically mentions a removal of VP will address the OMG TREADMILL types like me who recognize that VP is a treadmill and will be so until it’s removed. Anet could make this issue go away today with one statement saying VP was to be stopped as the treadmill then would be gone.

Edit: I realize it would be very difficult for them to say that VP was to be removed. For one thing they thought it was a good idea and addressed the problem of players feeling like there was nothing to do (let’s give them a treadmill!). Some at Anet may still think VP is a good idea. Additionally, it’s now the major driver of the reward system(s). You heard that right: vertical progression is the principle driver of the reward system(s) in GW2. How do I know that? Consider the laurel. Most realize instinctively that it is the most important element in the system. And, what does the laurel buy you? Just visit a laurel merchant to find out. It buys you one more step on an ever-ascending power curve. VP and it’s treadmill is now the heart of GW2. It would be quite a feat for Anet to extricate themselves from this pit. It’s doable, of course, but would require insight, courage, and will. I’m not sure they’re up for such a heroic task.

VP isn’t the problem. VP is your problem. There are a lot of people for whom that is also a problem. However, we have different factions of people complaining about different things. Not everyone complaining is complaining about VP.

Some people are complaining about the grind and some people are complaining about the time gating, and can live with the grind. It’s not all one party. You’re not all saying the same thing.

Erasculio.2914:

Namu.5712:

Now stop coming here and complaining non-stop.

Ascended is basically it gear wise.

Only not.

Ascended gear was introduced because, when the number of players began the typical “post MMO release” fall, ArenaNet noticed many of those leaving were asking for things to grind for, and to grind in order to become more powerful.

So then, ArenaNet began introducing new, more powerful items, one type at a time, and each new type requiring a new currency, so it would take a long time for people to get that gear.

Tell me one, thing, though – what do you think is going to happen when those players ArenaNet listened to, the ones who wanted something more to grind for, get all the Ascended gear?

Do you think they are going to stop and say “wow, I wasn’t happy with exotics but NOW I’m happy”? Honestly?

Prepare for a new carrot making people more powerful. Even assuming ArenaNet won’t introduce a new set of gear (and I don’t believe it), it would be easy for them to keep fueling the gear treadmill in other ways, such as by increasing the level cap and thus turning all Ascended items obsolete.

When Anet first thought of ascended gear, the game was very good, but it had no stickiness. People could leave it quite easily. I said then, if you recall, that the ascended gear was a stop gap measure until other things were taken care of. I also said it would take about a year for that stuff to start happening.

Now that the game has other avenues of stickiness (achievement points and LS), which people do log in to do, Anet doesn’t need to add more tiers of gear.

Like all MMOs, Guild Wars 2 has had to find itself. What it turned out to be is very different than the game that originally launched…but I can see the seeds of some of the ideas in what they’re doing now. For example, Anet has always spoken of a living breathing world and they’re trying to find ways to make that happen (with mixed success I might add).

The point is, when Anet introduced Ascended gear, what they needed was a quick fix. It was, as I’ve always maintained, a compromise.

There are probably enough players in the game now that are focused on achievement points, where more gear grind won’t be necessary. Especially if stuff starts coming in that people enjoy.

I mean the LFG tool is coming on the 17, and that will help too. The wallet helps. The culling thing helps.

I don’t really think (and have never really thought) that Anet wants to add a full on gear treadmill.

Am I happy with ascended gear being in the game? No, not really. But I understand why it’s there.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

because I’m not gear driven.

Says the guy with 2 legendaries

ahahahahahahahhaah

Okay, explain this. If I’m gear driven, why is one legendary an underwater weapon and the other on a character I retired?

MikaHR.1978:

Peets.8529:

MikaHR.1978:

Peets.8529:

haviz.1340:

VOLKON.1290:

I NEED HELP!

OK, now that I have your attention, can someone please show me where the required grind is in this game in order to be able to proceed to the next tier of content? I seem to be having trouble finding it. I tried going into WvW without ascended gear and was able to… is there an ascended only WvW? I visited and helped beat Jormag, assorted invasions, dungeons, jumping puzzles, etc. and haven’t been able to find the gated content beyond those that require ascended gear… can someone point that out to me? Because until I find it I’m having a difficult time accepting that this type of optional grind is anyways close to violating the “not a grindy game” concept ANet originally spoke of. Yes, I see optional grindy things for those that want the longer term goals, but the required stuff… I can’t seem to find it. Help me out people!

Fractals of the Mists.

Only when you go lvl 10 or higher.
So it is not required.
Try again

It is required. For lvl10 or higher.

Your logic…

Going lvl 10 or higher is optional, not required.
And you don’t have to use the weapons they added to finish it.

Uh oh, you should probably go back to read what you responded to.

raiding in WoW is optinal, noone says you have to raid. Is there any point in all of this?

But you don’t even have to do dungeons to get ascended gear here…you can just do some jumping puzzles. Hell, you can portal to the end of jumping puzzles. And therein lies the difference.

cesmode.4257:

Vayne.8563:

xephire.8324:

MikaHR.1978:

Yu-huh, im still laughing, though tears have stopped now.

“i have 2 legendaries but i dont grind…AT ALL”

ahhahahahahhahaaah

SO TRUEE!!im laughing and tearing up as well T^T.Or maby buying all the mats will real money through tp if that’s not the case.

Or learning how to actually play the game….that works too.

Id say after 5 max level characters, 3 decked out in exotics and ascended (ascended up through accessories that is), 1100+ played in the game…I can say that I know “how” to play GW2. And I still havent accumulated the wealth needed for a precursor, or the luck needed to get a drop.

You picked up a 25 gold precursor. You seriously can’t compare your 25 gold precursor to most of the other ones, such as spark, the lover, dusk, etc. When you say “I dont grind, and I acquired a precursor(that cost 25 gold)”, you lose all credibility.

I’ve been very public about how and where I got both my precusors. I’ve also said that I wouldn’t have cared one way or another. If a precusor hadn’t dropped, I’d still be playing the game and waiting for one. And I know for a fact it wouldn’t affect my game at all, because I’m not gear driven.

My first legendary, the only land one, is on a character I don’t even use. It’s just not that important to me. It’s not why I play.

Making comments about my credibility when you clearly have no idea of what’s been discussed does nothing for yours.

xephire.8324:

MikaHR.1978:

Yu-huh, im still laughing, though tears have stopped now.

“i have 2 legendaries but i dont grind…AT ALL”

ahhahahahahhahaaah

SO TRUEE!!im laughing and tearing up as well T^T.Or maby buying all the mats will real money through tp if that’s not the case.

Or learning how to actually play the game….that works too.

stof.9341:

Mister “I don’t grind, I just found two free precursors” isn’t funny XD

I bought one precusor for 25 gold on the TP…it only recently went up (like two weeks ago).

byjiang.1260:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

xephire.8324:

Gear wars 2 ,Farm wars 2 , Grindwars 2.All of those is what gw2 has become instead of actually having guild wars.A tittle that doesn’t even relate to their game in anyway….

I like Grind Wars 2 the best. Its most fitting

That’s a very fitting name, as long as you preface it with the words “there really isn’t any reason to…”

Stop this nonsense please. Would you do Liadri in all greens? Any time they release anything remotely challenging you’ll want the best gear available.

Are you claiming that no one beat Liadri in rares?

Edit: You know a better question..what percentage of the people playing the game cared about, or attempted Liadri.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Draven.7210:

MikaHR.1978:

Draven.7210:

Can’t believe people are STILL kittening about grind in GW2. Since November this topic has been run into the ground and beat hundreds of times to death and here we are….September of the next year and you STILL keep complaining.

If ANet really felt they were wrong the way you insist they are, they wouldn’t continue with what they’re doing, including Ascended gear. Seriously. Get over it.

So no company ever did some very stupid decisions? Really?

ROFL

You don’t. You fail to comprehend the game, it’s market, the players, and the times.

Yah, ANet lost me somewhere along gear grind treadmill. What can you do.

I’m not a fan of gear grind either…which I why I don’t grind for gear. I’ll get it when I get it. I’m not at 500 crafting yet for any one of the professions and I probably won’t be for another month…and that’s okay.

Because I don’t need this gear to play the game. I’ll do quite fine without it. And when I get it, I’ll get it.

Says the guy with 2 legendaries.

Ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahah

Oh, man the tears

I never once grinded for a legendary. Not even a bit. I got the predator as a drop from the Karka event in november. The dungeon runs…well you know…they’re dungeon runs. I’d do them anyway, because people in my guild want to run dungeons.

The WvW badges, they drop if you play WvW (and now with achievement chests they’re a joke). The karma came from playing the game quite naturally. I have more karma than I know what to do with.

The hardest bit were the mats…my wife helped with some of that, because she likes to collect stuff, and I gather wherever I go, because it’s mindless…but I don’t farm. On the way to other stuff, I gather. No big deal.

In the end, I acquired a lot of gold from just playing. Selling stuff that I got…not wasting too much money on stuff…and I bought the mats I need.

Oh the second precusor I got was 25 gold on the marketplace.

Laugh all you want…I don’t grind.

MikaHR.1978:

xephire.8324:

Gear wars 2 ,Farm wars 2 , Grindwars 2.All of those is what gw2 has become instead of actually having guild wars.A tittle that doesn’t even relate to their game in anyway….

I like Grind Wars 2 the best. Its most fitting

That’s a very fitting name, as long as you preface it with the words “there really isn’t any reason to…”

xephire.8324:

Gear wars 2 ,Farm wars 2 , Grindwars 2.All of those is what gw2 has become instead of actually having guild wars.A tittle that doesn’t even relate to their game in anyway….

We were told long long before this game launched that there would be no GvG. Straight out. Guess that’s one thing Anet told the truth about huh?

If they added it, you’d probably just accuse them of lying.

MikaHR.1978:

Draven.7210:

MikaHR.1978:

Draven.7210:

Can’t believe people are STILL kittening about grind in GW2. Since November this topic has been run into the ground and beat hundreds of times to death and here we are….September of the next year and you STILL keep complaining.

If ANet really felt they were wrong the way you insist they are, they wouldn’t continue with what they’re doing, including Ascended gear. Seriously. Get over it.

So no company ever did some very stupid decisions? Really?

ROFL

You don’t. You fail to comprehend the game, it’s market, the players, and the times.

Yah, ANet lost me somewhere along gear grind treadmill. What can you do.

I’m not a fan of gear grind either…which I why I don’t grind for gear. I’ll get it when I get it. I’m not at 500 crafting yet for any one of the professions and I probably won’t be for another month…and that’s okay.

Because I don’t need this gear to play the game. I’ll do quite fine without it. And when I get it, I’ll get it.

MikaHR.1978:

Draven.7210:

Can’t believe people are STILL kittening about grind in GW2. Since November this topic has been run into the ground and beat hundreds of times to death and here we are….September of the next year and you STILL keep complaining.

If ANet really felt they were wrong the way you insist they are, they wouldn’t continue with what they’re doing, including Ascended gear. Seriously. Get over it.

So no company ever did some very stupid decisions? Really?

ROFL

No fan has ever been mistaken about what’s best for a game? really?

ROFL

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

The more you focus on a legendary, the worse the game will be for you.

That’s not a very good end game then… when ArenaNet specifically talked about Legendaries being the end game.

For many players, getting to 80 and completing the zones is the whole game… what more for them is there to do, besides this?

It’s not a very good end game. I never claimed it was. lol

I’ve been against the way precusors drop since the beginning, even though I got one. I’ve bee relatively vocal about it. I’m quite disillusioned with the whole legendary process.

And if you truncate it out of the game completely the game is much better, from my perspective.

But then I don’t believe in end game at all. I don’t like it and I don’t want it.

Nightingale.9714:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t really get why your entire game centers around a legendary. The game is huge…legendaries are a small, small part of it, made to be a long term goal. Put it on the back burner, accumulate the stuff you need for all legendaries, and see what happens.

The more you focus on a legendary, the worse the game will be for you.

I have 8 lvl 80’s and I’ll soon be done with my last character. My highest motivation for playing the game tends to revolve around weapon and armor skins (which anet seems to realize given the legendary updates and transmutation stones among many other things) I’ve put it on the back burner for 10 months, hoping for a change. How long should I wait until I can make this a reality?

There’s new stuff in this game pretty much constantly. The question I’m asking is what’s the difference how long you wait? You got 8 80’s so you’ve done everything?

When you get your legendary then what will you do?

I don’t really get why your entire game centers around a legendary. The game is huge…legendaries are a small, small part of it, made to be a long term goal. Put it on the back burner, accumulate the stuff you need for all legendaries, and see what happens.

The more you focus on a legendary, the worse the game will be for you.

Depends on what you mean by ascended gear was planned. My understanding was that ascended gear was talked about, but didn’t make it into the game. It certainly wasn’t planned in it’s current form…but it was discussed.

Why wasn’t it planned in its current form? Because Anet didn’t count on the content locusts. The adapted to a changing situation.

Whether or not it was “planned” depends on how you define planned.

In one guys mind they talked about it and so it was planned, Colin didn’t take it that far.

Not a lie…but it sure shows a lack of communication between departments.

You should consider joining a guild…preferably one of like minded people. For example, if you’re casual PvE’er, like to have fun, and like to play with people who aren’t in a rush to get everything done…no speed runs, no elitism…then you’re much like me and should look for a guild that supports that.

If your’e more into PvP or WvW, if you’re hard core, you’ll want a more competitive guild.

Having a guild means not having one or two people to play with, but a choice of dozens. It’s a great way to make friends.

Because people had karma coming out of their ears. It was a joke. It was far too common. I have two legendaries, enough mystic clovers for a third and almost 3 million karma. It really was given out too freely. It was silly.

Seems to me, I get more higher level luck essences from my greens, than blues. In other words, the essences are tiered. The better essences come more often from greens.

Deroy.2457:

Vayne.8563:

Well, that’s true…until the last patch, when you had to do 13 zone events in different zones. And a lot of people had trouble getting the Gauntlet achievements too.

I ignored the zone invasion achievements, but I managed to at least get 7/7.
It’s quite frankly something that shouldn’t have been made achievements because those kind of achievements are not something the player is in control of. The game is.

As for the gauntlet, aside from the arbitrary requirements of tickets it was fine.
Although Liadri’s blind ability was unfair as it’s an example of the game removing immediate control from the player.

Vayne.8563:

Also if you don’t run to sites like Dulfy and want to play the content without doing it “efficiently” but actually figure stuff out, some of it could take longer.

Guild Wars 2 had a tendency to poorly telegraph everything in the game to the player.
So it’s not surprising when players run off to sites like Dulfy.

You should have played Ultima 4. You wouldn’t be saying that. lol

Deroy.2457:

To be fair, most achievements that have accompanied the bi-weekly updated have been obtainable on patch day after about 4-5 hours of play.

Well, that’s true…until the last patch, when you had to do 13 zone events in different zones. And a lot of people had trouble getting the Gauntlet achievements too.

Also if you don’t run to sites like Dulfy and want to play the content without doing it “efficiently” but actually figure stuff out, some of it could take longer.

Did they already get a monthly this month before the update? Just curious.

The September 10th is when they’ll annouce what’s coming on September 17…that is the LFG tool, the new WvW season and the changes to T’quatl the Sunless.

Yep. I agree. I’d rather see one month content patches…or even 3 weeks, instead of two weeks. I don’t know how anyone can keep up this pace.

Kaleban.9834:

Vayne.8563:

No it had a skill treadmill and people grinded levels to level up their skills. So on a skill it’s okay but on gear (that makes less of a difference and you don’t actually need) it’s okay?

PUG AC Path 2 naked with white non-max weapons. Or any dungeon path really. Or survive one of Scarlett’s invasions. Nobody grinded levels in GW1 to level up their skills. There was nothing to spend skillpoints on other than the occasional conset (contrast the cost in skillpoints of just one GW2 Legendary), and in the metagame most builds were very similar, such kitten Nuker Necros or Panic Mesmers, which meant with the number of skillpoints accrued via natural leveling and gameplay one could possess most of if not all meta builds easily.

Plus, if ANet wanted to re-balance the meta, they simply altered some skills, leaving weapon damage alone. Continually adding higher tiers of gear when a whopping amount of actual skills are still bugged/unbalanced will only exacerbate the balance issues in the game. I mean, a full year after release and the trait system, the BASIS of GW2 builds and gameplay diversity is still broken and bugged to some extent for all classes, and some really get the shaft.

ANet needs to stop adding crap like Rox and Braham into the game (honestly who cares about her stupid devourer?) and fix the bugged class features and get a semblance of real balance going so that classes like Engineer, Elementalist, Necromancer and Ranger are brought up to par with some of the more recognized dominating classes, across all game modes, which means fixing the Warrior in sPvP and the like. But as long as ANet keeps pumping out stuff like the SAB (OOH SHINY) we’re distracted like raccoons with tinfoil, with coincidental associated items in the Gem Store that all of a sudden provide a distinct advantage (Infinite Continue Coin).

Nobody did what? No one ever advertised for a group for rank 8 ursans? No one ever ground out Luxon points to get Save Yourselves up so they could get in a group as an imbagon paragon for DOA. No sin ever leveled up the Sunspear skill so he could be a permasin (until it was finally nerfed).

Reality check for you. Those PvE only skills were far more powerful than anything else in the game. That’s why Anet limited you to 3 of them. And if you don’t think people grinded up levels to get the max damage out of Pain Inverter or more seconds on Technobabble…you’d be completely wrong about that.

And those skills made a much larger different on the game than 10% in stats that you don’t need to do any of the content.

Technically we paid money for the game (unless we got it as a gift) so the game cost us something. That said, I’ve paid $60 for games I played for less than an hour. I’ve played this game for over 3000 hours. So if you divide it up, even with the money I’ve been in the cash shop, it’s probably the cheapest form of entertainment there is.

And I am being entertained. I’m having a good time. Admittedly a lot of that has to do with the guild I’m in, but the game itself is still fun to me, even during hours when most of my guild is sleeping.

Doon.2364:

Cloud.7613:

A lot of people on this thread needs to think if they actually want to play the MMO genre in general, not just GW2. The same people who are acting like ANet is bringing out WoW gear grind where you need to get best in slot gear pre-raid, then raid multiple times per week, just to get DKP, with the chance that said item will drop, if you have the DKP to even get it, when in fact it may not drop period. MMO’s are grinds if you hadn’t found that out before GW2 you have now and there are way more bothersome issues GW2 has then this. I refuse to believe people who complain about grind in GW2 have played ANY other MMO.

Have you heard of GW1? It didn’t have those gear treadmill, grinding for stats. So you think it’s unreasonable for players that play the sequel to be disappointed that they are tricked into another grind-fest MMO? The biggest selling point of Guild Wars is that it’s not like other MMOS. The president of Arenanet even said so himself.

No it had a skill treadmill and people grinded levels to level up their skills. So on a skill it’s okay but on gear (that makes less of a difference and you don’t actually need) it’s okay?