Guild Wars 2

Yasha.5963:

It really set GW2 apart from every other mmo, which like you say is p2w: there was absolutely no form of p2w in spvp before HoT, it was amazing.

Even now its still by far the best, but disappointing that there is even an element of p2w introduced.

Seeing as Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is buy-to-play and not pay-to-win, you don’t have anything to be disappointed about. Like with other MMORPGs, you simply have to buy the expansion.

Doctor.1905:

Nah man vanilla sucks and this game is p2w but idc because I paid.

It’s buy-to-play, not pay-to-win.

Yasha.5963:

The fact that a player can pay to become more powerful in what was supposed to be a level playing field makes it p2w.

Seeing as you have to buy the entire expansion rather than take part in any sort of cash-shop microtransaction(s), the fact is that it’s buy-to-play and not pay-to-win.

Yasha.5963:

If 1) HoT was required to play spvp, or 2) the HoT specs were not OP compared to vanilla specs, or 3) the HoT specs were available to everyone in spvp, then we would be back to a totally non-p2w game as it was pre-HoT.

It’s already “non-p2w” seeing as it’s buy-to-play.

Phaeton.9582:

How does it fall apart?

It falls apart because your argument is that a small amount of content is only affected by a small amount of the expansion’s content like that somehow shouldn’t be a given. ArenaNet sells a whole product MMORPG and you are not entitled to dictate what parts of the expansion you buy in choosing or preferring to only utilize some of it.

Phaeton.9582:

To me your insistence that sPvP is a fraction of an uncompetitive whole defeats only your initial statement, where you use a trend in competitive games to justify continuing with the existing sPvP business model; you would be implying the two can be compared.

First of all, World of Warcraft has been the largest comparison point of argument for people here recognizing the fact of the matter that Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is buy-to-play, and I include myself in that. Second of all, it is a fact that most skill-based games are released in accordance with the buy-to-play model.

Phaeton.9582:

You will need to logically justify your argument not just provide unconnected facts or semantics

It’s a good thing I do logically justify my arguments and don’t just provide unconnected facts or semantics, then.

Yasha.5963:

You said in this very thread that being able to buy an advantage with money in a pvp game is not p2w.

See below:

Yasha.5963:

even buying better gear and so forth with in game currency bought with real cash is not p2w in their view.

Velimere.7685:

Pay-to-win is being able to buy gear and/or other items that other people cannot otherwise obtain.

Now kindly cease with your altogether offensive attempts to misconstrue via straw man.

Jourdelune.7456:

I find it funny, that you said (and I quoted you) that Gw2 is Buy to win. Now you change your stance, once again.

Maybe you should read again exactly what you just quoted me saying there, because that is most definitely not what I said. How ironic, then, that you prior attempted to project your being blind onto me on the previous page.

Phaeton.9582:

Once again, I have provided no indication that I disputed sPvP, or ‘the competitive game’, is currently a small fraction of an overall package.

Good thing I never argued that you did, then. However, what I did was indicate how your argument falls apart given that factual data, and this remains to be true given that you clearly have no argument in this reply.

Phaeton.9582:

In fact this to me makes it materially different to the B2P competitive games you make reference to as a trend to justify your argument.

Now do you have anything else to add to that or did you simply mean to leave it as a blanket statement with no actual information of reference?

Phaeton.9582:

If there is a bigger picture to discuss I would welcome it, however you may have to go further than merely raising unrelated facts for us both to entertain such a thing.

Sadly for you, none of the facts that I have stated are unrelated on any front, so you’ll either have to get a clue or give up. Your sad attempts at obfuscation remain in vain.

Phaeton.9582:

Munch munch defamation munch

Right? Like bowing out but not really. I mean who does that?

Yasha.5963:

Phaeton, its no use reasoning with Velle, he/she has already posted that being able to buy in game advantages with cash is not p2w- even buying better gear and so forth with in game currency bought with real cash is not p2w in their view.

Please don’t project your own personal opinion onto someone else as theirs. Just because you personally believe that it’s okay to have a pay-to-win system where you can have an advantage over other players via a cash shop doesn’t mean that’s someone else’s opinion.

Yasha.5963:

While I feel the game now has an element of p2w that wasn’t there previously,

Regardless of whatever you feel, the fact of the matter is that it’s buy-to-play.

Yasha.5963:

ANET has kind of shot themselves in the foot because anyone who actively plays those types of games is likely to see HoT as a form of p2w and therefore be put off.

Someone would have to be delusional to think that given the fact that it’s buy-to-play.

I don’t agree with the PvE-pricetag tacked onto the Ascension as it’s the only PvP legendary item in the game thus far, but I wouldn’t change any of the achievements.

Krysard.1364:

The rune is played because of the avatar refill, not the heal itself. If it healed 1hp per second it would be used anyway.

No! Stop! What are you doing?! Why are you doing this?!

Evan Lesh.3295:

• Each stack of dishonor has it’s own duration of 72 hours.
• You can play until your account has 3 stacks of dishonor.
• You cannot play until your account has less than 3 stacks. (Think of bleed stacks)
• Dishonor stacks expire while offline.
• Being kicked by AFK detection automatically adds a dishonor stack.
• Being absent from a match will add a stack of dishonor when the match has ended.

Simple version: You can leave a maximum of 3 games every 3 day period. Those could be spread out: If you leave once a day, you effectively lock yourself out every 24 hours. They could be stacked quickly: Leaving 3 times in one day means and cannot play almost the maximum of 72 hours.

Have you made any considerations as to how to deal with people who don’t actually AFK but just run around (most often in their base, but sometimes not) instead of actually playing because they deem the match a lost cause and are just giving up?

I haven’t seen it once in ranked this season, but I recently started playing unranked and I’m starting to see it there instead every now and then, and it’s rather displeasing.

I’m completely and utterly shocked how you people aren’t anywhere near or even remotely close to discussing the most important thing about this past WTS:

Magic Toker’s haircut > Phantaram’s haircut > everyone else’s haircut

How can you people even think about the dubstep with such beautiful hair to discuss?

Phaeton.9582:

I didn’t deny these builds were in use, what I put forwards was that they do little to substantiate a feature-product paywall to an exclusively competitive player base.

PvE, PvP, and WvW are all parts of a whole game of which PvP itself does not substantiate anywhere near the majority of. That goes for Guild Wars 2 as well as Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns. You can apply your negative buzzwords such as “paywall” as much as you’d like in your attempt to avoid and misconstrue against this fact of the matter, but it’ll do little to serve your purpose as long as people are actually aware of it: PvP is only one part of the game, and a smaller part content-wise as is the case with most MMORPGs. A smaller part of the game receiving less relevance from the expansion is nothing short of common sense given that said expansion isn’t dedicated nor exclusive to PvP. That said, being the successfully fleshed out and integrated expansion that Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is, it also plays a substantial role in the PvP experience with its Elite Specializations.

Phaeton.9582:

Despite this very intellectual manner of yours, you’ve failed to even argue this point – let alone debunk it with un-referenced ‘facts’!

See above for some more facts which deconstruct your argument in its entirety, though that’s not difficult when you’re attempting to detract from big picture facts while arguing big picture references. It’s also cute to see you go back on your word and throw your ethos through the ringer even further, but who needs popcorn when you have self-defamation as treat?

Jourdelune.7456:

Sorry, but actually DOTA 2 and LOL are greater than all others games put together in term of sheer numbers of players.

Sorry, but that point was never disputed by me at any given point in time. It boggles my mind how you can read something someone else stated and then quote them in responding to something they didn’t state.

Jourdelune.7456:

Perhaps you are blind… the best (Blizzard) pc game maker, lag behind LoL.

Regardless as to whether or not your are blind and projecting such, you certainly seem to love your tangents. Either that or you’re making poor attempts at a straw man, moving the goalposts, or both.

Jay.3409:

agreed. elite spec should be free in instanced pvp like arenas.. ( not so much with wvw as gear matters there )

i bought gw2 before hot, so spending another $50 just for elite spec dont seem worth it tbh..

100% disagreed.

Phaeton.9582:

ok buddy, I don’t feel as bad about this now I realise I’m not arguing with a fifteen year old. (Gen X guy quoting south park and arguing with people on a game forum?)

I’m not your buddy, Dude, and I never claimed to be fifteen. Also, please keep your American television references to yourself as I won’t get them and they’d be off-topic.

Phaeton.9582:

The only valid point you’ve put forward however is that it is entirely arenanets prerogative.

That’s a complete and utter falsification. Everything I’ve stated is 100% factual.

Phaeton.9582:

My hope is that they see sense, as right now it will only take one decent hack n slash multiplayer (for honour being a likely contender) to decimate the exclusive pvp population that are still here.

The PvP population is fine, and your fear-mongering propaganda is entirely unappreciated.

Phaeton.9582:

I want this game to do well, that’s why I take this stance – not because it is my right or because I feel anything is owed.

I want this game to do well, and that’s why I wholeheartedly disagree with you and your presented pejorative falsifications and misconstructions towards ArenaNet and Guild Wars 2.

Phaeton.9582:

I don’t think your point that we are using elite specs means my argument was misconstructed.

It does, and I stated exactly how and why.

Phaeton.9582:

I don’t think the elite trait lines are a significant amount of the overall content in HoT, as I put forwards.

That’s nice, however the fact still remains that every meta PvP build uses Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns content and absolutely zero meta PvP builds don’t.

Phaeton.9582:

I also don’t think the described skills and traits were designed with PvP in mind, a separate discussion but none the less relevant to how this pay wall is justified to a ‘competitive’ population.

Regardless as to this tangent point and whether or not that discussion which already came up here and was shot down rather quickly was started by you or not, the fact remains that they are used in PvP, and your attempted obfuscation does nothing to detract from that.

Phaeton.9582:

Now I’m not going to enter into a long debate about who is misconstructing arguments or propagating logical fallacy.

Good because you’d lose as you are in the wrong.

Phaeton.9582:

You may well be a very intelligent and successful human (albeit snubbing people on a gaming forum), but it is ultimately pointless as little can be justified.

While certainly very little can be justified on your end, I won’t meet your ad hominem in like and make direct inferences as to your intelligence and success as a human being nor project any of my negativity onto you like how you do with your snubbing people on a gaming forum.

Phaeton.9582:

All I will say, more as a helpful pointer than anything else.. as someone who apparently reserves the right to judge ‘millennials’ on their misconception of the world; people that raise opinions as facts often come across like idiots, regardless of their generation.

While you may reserve the right to judge millennials on their misconception of the world as per whatever feelings of entitlement you may have, facts remain facts regardless as to idiots writing them off as other people’s opinions.

Phaeton.9582:

Or you may of course be trolling me, in which case GGWP.

Rather, the format dictates that if anyone is trolling, it’s definitely you.

Phaeton.9582:

Also I’m not your bro, pal.

I’m not your pal, Guy.

Phaeton.9582:

Oh sorry, I didn’t realise all your statements were entirely factual in this context.

No you do, Guy.

Phaeton.9582:

You must be better informed than all of us, thanks for clearing that up

If actually paying attention to reality and not forming and then communicating false assumptions makes me better informed, then yeah. It’s amazing how useful actual observation can be, Guy.

Phaeton.9582:

There’s a second expansion on the way that is most likely to make this a biennial occurrence, unless you’ve got more ‘facts’ to the contrary of course!

Given the duration of time between Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns being more accurately described as 3 years than 2 years, any reference to any subsequent expansion being termed “biennial” would require explicit exclusion of that discrepancy or would otherwise be nonfactual, Guy.

Phaeton.9582:

And besides the discussion is ultimately irrelevant – you can’t honestly believe that the majority of popular ‘esport’ games have a business model like GW2 spvp – where you are asked to periodically re-purchase a game with 95% of its new content not used competitively.

That entire argument point is a misconstruction. First and foremost, of course PvE and WvW content do not see use in PvP as these game modes are separate. That said, the misconstruction of your argument is that it ignores the simple fact which easily defeats it: Every current PvP meta build uses Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns content.

Quite frankly, Guild Wars 2 is the intellectual property of ArenaNet, and if they only want to sell the complete expansion as the complete expansion, then that’s their prerogative. If you can’t come to terms with that, then you can simply not buy it and move on, Guy.

It’s nothing short of seemingly millennial entitlement for someone to cry on a forum about how he or she doesn’t like what some other people are doing with their own property or selling their own product the way they choose to. It’s like throwing a hissy fit because General Mills won’t sell you Lucky Charms with only the marshmallows.

Phaeton.9582:

ook friend

I’m not your friend, Bro.

Phaeton.9582:

How many of these ‘skill based or competitive’ games sit behind paywall that crops up biennially and bears little to no relevance to the competitive game itself?

I fail to see the relevance of this question. Guild Wars 2 was released in 2012 whereas Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns was released in 2015, and Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns bears much relevance to the competitive game itself. I’m assuming here your goal was to seek a comparison, but quite frankly your query is as to which of these games are absolutely not like Guild Wars 2, which doesn’t really serve any purpose, Bro.

Phaeton.9582:

Why do I get the feeling you’ll tell me why this is a widely adopted business model.

I won’t tell you that, but I will tell you that most of the games in this universe are released as buy-to-play and most of their expansions are also released as buy-to-play. Change “widely” to “widest” and you have a factual statement, Bro.

Phaeton.9582:

Possibly because you’ve posted the same opinion 50 times in this thread.

It’s a matter of fact.

If you want to see a matter of opinion, you need only read your own writing, Bro.

Phaeton.9582:

Let’s not fight; she’ll make you to stay with your aunty and uncle in bel air. Trust me on this one.

You’re welcome to stop embarrassing yourself at any time, Bro.

Dodging ignores dodging.

…And here I thought stability was buffed so that only 1 stack can be removed via non-Steal CC every .75 seconds.

Phaeton.9582:

Velimere.7685:

Secondly, most skill-based games are buy-to-play.

If by ‘skill-based’ you mean ‘competitive’, you must be talking to us from the 90s.

In which case, why is HoT even relevant to you? Go play some Ultima or something.

You must know absolutely nothing about skill-based or competitive games if you think my factual statement only holds relevance to the 90s. Sorry, but the majority of registered ESL games require you to buy them. People foolishly think that free-to-play MOBAs are the majority of such when there’s actually only a handful of popular ones.

Jourdelune.7456:

So, it’s even less fun for the B2W players to get paired with F2P one, in a model where all chances/options to be good should be open. Skill based games are not behind paywall.

First of all, Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is buy-to-play.

Secondly, most skill-based games are buy-to-play.

You can dodge while dazed, just not while feared, floating, knocked back, knocked down, launched, pulled, sinking, stunned, or taunted.

Josh Davis.6015:

Wargameur.6950:

Come on guys stop beeing all salty after we got a dev answer.

Josh, I suppose you won’t give us an answer about what are the change. But can you at least give us the areas ? Is it a change about the MMR, pips system, leagues, seasons ?

It’s too early to give concrete details. First we need to finish up development and then run through our internal “it is ready to ship?” process.

In short, we agree with a lot of what has been discussed on these forums. Leagues need to do better in the prestige department, and the pip system can’t really support that. If you’re in legendary, for example, you should truly be in the highest percentiles in terms of player skill. Leagues also need to feel more rewarding, especially once you’ve landed in your correct division. In the current system, the rate at which you earn rewards slows down significantly as your climb becomes more difficult in the later divisions – but you should still be rewarded for playing in your correct division, even if you can’t progress any further.

Another area of focus for the team is improving match quality. I can’t go into detail here (it will be better explained once we can talk about the entire scope of changes), but I wanted to let you know it’s a priority.

-Grouch

runeblade.7514:

I’m glad you agree that +1000 power boost into the gemstore is not pay2win.

I’m glad you agree that this game isn’t pay-to-win.

Yasha.5963:

Velimere.7685:

Yasha.5963:

WoW actually was one of the most p2w games in terms of its battlegrounds: that was one of the great things about GW2’s spvp before HoT- absolutely no p2w, unlike every other mmo I can think of.

The fact that you think World of Warcraft is pay-to-win just goes to show that you have absolutely zero understanding of the difference between buy-to-play and pay-to-win and just what exactly constitutes pay-to-win in the first place.

You can (or could when I played) buy gold with cash and spend that on gear and enchants that would make you totally OP. Later you could legally buy tokens with cash and trade that for gold, with which you could buy OP gear.

It is the very definition of p2w, and something completely absent from GW2 until HoT. Luckily even with HoT GW2 is far, far less p2w than WoW etc because USD50 is the greatest advantage you can buy in spvp.

Except you are completely and utterly incorrect. Pay-to-win isn’t being able to spend money to buy gear and gear modifications that other people can grind to obtain. Pay-to-win is being able to buy gear and/or other items that other people cannot otherwise obtain.

runeblade.7514:

Therefore the game is not pay2win.

I’m glad you agree.

Yasha.5963:

WoW actually was one of the most p2w games in terms of its battlegrounds: that was one of the great things about GW2’s spvp before HoT- absolutely no p2w, unlike every other mmo I can think of.

The fact that you think World of Warcraft is pay-to-win just goes to show that you have absolutely zero understanding of the difference between buy-to-play and pay-to-win and just what exactly constitutes pay-to-win in the first place.

runeblade.7514:

Velimere.7685:

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

It’s buy-to-play.

sPvP is free to play with pay2win.

I can play sPvP for free. But if I want to get more power I got to buy the elite specs.

Rated Arena is not its own game in Guild Wars 2 just like Battlegrounds is not its own game in World of Warcraft. In both of these games, you have purchase an expansion to play it. World of Warcraft isn’t pay-to-win, and neither is Guild Wars 2.

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

It’s buy-to-play.

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

Gw2 pve is a MMORPG.

Gw2 spvp is completely defined by this: Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.

Same game, so no. Regardless as to your personal segregation of the two, this remains to be the fact of the matter.

JTGuevara.9018:

I can dispute YOUR reality all I want with statements that contradict it.

It’s not my reality. It’s the reality. Your statements attempting to contradict it are completely and utterly regardless.

Yasha.5963:

Its a buy to play game that lets you pay to win in spvp. There are also free to play and sub-based games that let you pay to win. Spin it how you want, but before HoT this kind of discussion never came up.

Anyway the question is not “is Gw2’s spvp p2w”- because it clearly is – but “why did the company decide to go down the p2w route for spvp?”

You’re wrong. It’s buy-to-play plain and simple.

JTGuevara.9018:

And for PvP, I dispute that definition.

You can dispute reality all you want, but you’ll always be wrong.

Yasha.5963:

It is still an incredible game, but it is now also p2w, although thankfully in a very mild way compared to some other similar games.

Except it isn’t pay-to-win. It’s buy-to-play.

Yasha.5963:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

There you have it, according to Velimere.7685, the reason GW2 is p2w is because its a mmorpg.

Before HoT this was the only mmorpg that had absolutely no p2w in its spvp gamemode, and it was a godsend.

It’s not pay-to-win; stop putting words in my mouth. This game is buy-to-play.

JTGuevara.9018:

Pay-to-win means you have to buy to play in order to win. I don’t reject the fact that you have to pay to buy the expansion to play it, I reject the statement that the whole of the expansion is “buy-to-play” when there is evidence to the contrary in PvP where you have to PAY to WIN.

You’re wrong.

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

Cosbuster.4379:

I guess every game is p2w. I mean, how can you win if you don’t pay to buy it, right? Hell, even for supposedly free games I still need to pay for internet, electricity. computer parts. Free my kitten butt.

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Thank you for the spin. I never said they were separate games, I said that a portion of the game(PvP) is pay-to-win thanks to the expansion. If anything, denying that you have to pay to get access to elite builds that make it easier to win is the real make-believe.

Elite specializations are part of the expansion regardless as to whether or not they are used in PvP, and the expansion is buy-to-play. Misconstrue the facts all you’d like, but that’ll never make your false opinion anything more than make-believe.

Krysard.1364:

Velimere.7685:

Krysard.1364:

a staff 5 with legend/weaponswap with shiro heal followed by sword 2 can delete nearly everything without defensive buffs

That combo doesn’t use Enchanted Daggers. Otherwise, you’re not getting a free Precision Strike or forcing your opponent to use a stun break (and possibly dodge roll).

wut

Exactly what I said.

Cynz.9437:

HoT specs are already extremely forgiving, they are pretty much on auto-pilot – what else do you want?

His cake and to eat it too?

Krysard.1364:

a staff 5 with legend/weaponswap with shiro heal followed by sword 2 can delete nearly everything without defensive buffs

That combo doesn’t use Enchanted Daggers. Otherwise, you’re not getting a free Precision Strike or forcing your opponent to use a stun break (and possibly dodge roll).

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

Jourdelune.7456:

For sPvP with the simple solution, people don’t think you are B2W and so, you got “good perceived” value of your game and not the “Pay to Win” junk reputation our beloved game now have.

That’s just your own personal misconception as the game is Buy-to-Play, not Pay-to-Win.

Saiyan.1704:

Finally fought a good Engi, Skittledness.5106 on Never Lucky.

A good (I emphasis the word) Engi can beat symbol DH but it’s a soft counter rather than hard counter. The two will sustain for days before Engi tops DH, unless he misses a footing and gets both pushed + pulled inside ToF.

I wouldn’t call it a bad scenario having the two fight on point, especially if the DH can bunk Engi off for a possible neutral node, but it’s not exactly favorable for DH if fight drags on which it will if the Engi is any good.

Thanks for the duels Skittled.

Can you post your build and his? If we’re talking about point contesting or holding, I don’t think the meta Scrapper has a chance versus a Symbolic Dragonhunter when we’re talking about a small point. I decapped then full-capped Chaith’s home point on Forest of Niflhel while in a 1v1 with him the entire time before he decided to leave when his Self-Regulating Defenses proc’d right before the match ended. I was running this build.

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

For sPvP in Guild Wars 2, expac are Buy to Win (B2W).

B2W is not even a model. Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG, and PvP is a single aspect of it. People who PvP in World of Warcraft or other MMORPGs with paid expansions can’t access expansion content without buying said expansion content either.

It’s the new model Anet created.

Buy to play games don’t have Free to play included.

But Guild Wars do.

To make sales, they did forced you to buy HoT in putting Vanilla stuff obsolete.

Buy to Win would be the proper WORDS to help Free to Play players know they got “trap” in downloading a 40 gig games and will have a hard time to win, without Buying the Expac to Win.

B2W.

But… Nope, it’s not Anet that created the Model.

It exist, just look around the web:
http://herowarzforum.koggames.com/forum/herowarz/general-discussion/3900-is-herowarz-p2w-discussion

“Hello! I want to post a thread about this for a while. So why not today? A lot of newcomers keep saying that this game is P2W (Pay 2 Win) or B2W (Buy 2 Win) and I do not understand why they keep saying that. So the questions for this thread are: “Do you think Herowarz (Both PVE and PVP aspects) will be P2W? Why or why not?”"

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151223/b2w-or-b2p

https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/505582/buy-2-win-pvp-is-a-joke/p2

And so on…

Yeah, if you want to have the Free to Play crowd (100x population than buy to play crowd), you need to make it correctly. If not, your F2P efforts and money, is a failure and will not attract the 100 millions F2P players out there.

You choose.

Only the base game is free-to-play. World of Warcraft’s free-to-play model is even more restrictive, yet World of Warcraft also isn’t your made up “buy-to-win” model. Citing some random nobody on another forum doesn’t add any credibility to your attempt to shovel your meme/buzzword.

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

For sPvP in Guild Wars 2, expac are Buy to Win (B2W).

B2W is not even a model. Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG, and PvP is a single aspect of it. People who PvP in World of Warcraft or other MMORPGs with paid expansions can’t access expansion content without buying said expansion content either.

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

kin korn karn.9023:

Velimere.7685:

kin korn karn.9023:

Velimere.7685:

Working as intended.

This player may be unable to progress as you would hope, but the pip system suggests that Anet’s intention is to allow average and even poor players to progress slowly.

What? I’m Legendary. My statement refers to the fact that we’re back to the 50/50 matchmaking of season 1 which was stated by ArenaNet themselves here on this forum.

I interpreted your comment to mean that the intention is to keep players who don’t have a strong win %age in the lower divisions. I guess I misunderstood. I do think you missed the OP’s point, though. Regardless of win rate, getting stuck with alternating wins and losses is frustrating as hell, especially if you’re stuck in the lower divisions where progression should be basically a given.

Where was an intended 50/50 win rate confirmed? I took this post as a rejection of that idea: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Let-s-do-away-with-forced-50-50-match-making/first#post6302088

[edit for clarity]

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Season-4-Ranked-Matchmaking-Change/first

Season 1 matchmaking is what people refer to as the 50/50 matchmaking.

Rigante.2470:

Who has ranked you the 1# ranger some imaginary governing body of rangers

Since when was the EU Legendary Leaderboard an imaginary governing body?

kin korn karn.9023:

Velimere.7685:

Working as intended.

This player may be unable to progress as you would hope, but the pip system suggests that Anet’s intention is to allow average and even poor players to progress slowly.

What? I’m Legendary. My statement refers to the fact that we’re back to the 50/50 matchmaking of season 1 which was stated by ArenaNet themselves here on this forum.

Working as intended.

Saiyan.1704:

You’ve never fought a good rev/thief/guard/ranger who knows to cc during your F3, or an unblockable rifle War who knows how to 6k unblockable cancer you in team fights, or that Thief who actually knows to +1 you on side nodes because he actually sees you across map and waits till you have half health, or Rangers who kitten s DH 1v1 like no body’s business.

Went on an 11 win streak till Tier7 and now I hit a brick wall thanks to MM who thinks 1 high mmr class can carry nubsticle players. I’m not saying you’re not any good. I’m saying you’re playing with players who simply aren’t giving you any comp.

I’m saying you’re talking about something you have absolutely no idea about. You don’t know anything about what or who I’ve played against on my way to Legendary this season. By all means, though, please keep crushing your own ethos by talking about something you know nothing about.

Lucred.1802:

Velimere.7685:

Lucred.1802:

I and everyone else on both teams have been reporting the same thief trying to buy wins in /yell in ranked for the last 2 weeks and I still get queued with him at least twice a day.

Wrong game. That’s World of Warcraft.

…you do know that works in this game too, right?

Sorry. I forgot my sarcasm tags.