Guild Wars 2

How does one fix “people who were just killing and not holding points etc”.

Knote.2904:

Elementalist has very good telegraphs for the most part and they actually have to set up their kill combo’s/attacks and need to make good use of CC, can’t say that for most of the other classes.

Warriors.
Elementalists.
Guardians.
Engineers (pay attention to the kit or whats on the ground)

I don’t think I have ever had trouble discerning the animations of these classes.

Furiousbeard.7602:

Example

[RET] vs [EP] Aug 25 2013

Need numbers vs → 15vs or 20vs or 500000 vs.

Aza.2105:

Yup its funny how guardians are suppose to be the class that specializes at burning, but they are the worst at it.

Its more a question of up time vs. cost.

For an ele, you need to shift elements and your burning is usually on a decently long cooldown timer allowing for it to be shed without worry. For a guardian, your burn is usually an added bonus to other abilities and effects, and the weapon built on it can pretty much keep it up 100% of the time even through cleansing.

Guardians have burning as second nature, but they have next to no other conditions to support it. This is what we call balance.

Necros… well, that is a mess.

Luiz Swordbreaker.6547:

Ya, we just gotta set a standard title, maybe something like
[EU/NA] Guild1 vs Guild2 [SizeVSize][Date]

That’s pretty good, and I’d still say to have a cumulative thread (heck see if you can get it stickied) so that we won’t need to dig through archives of back pages.

[EU/NA] Guild1 vs. Guild2 [Xvs][Date]

Wompage.4586:

Seeing as they are all technically “in-game events” we could have individual threads for each GvG if we really wanted. Maybe a cumulative thread for GvG videos?

Makes it hard to track imo if you have individual match threads since there’s no date stamp when browsing the forum without entering a topic. But if you have like a cumulative listing that would probably help a lot in allowing one to find the matches they are actually interested in watching.

If they wanted to purge you, they’d have just deleted the threads and banned you if you kept opening it.

Now you have a forum to literally make your own since no one else has used it and GvG is by definition a community emergent gameplay. :P

If I can make a suggestion, can we make 10vs/15vs/20vs threads for match-ups? Easier to track rather than countless XvsY threads with all sorts of numbers.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Funny how the one class you expect burning from isn’t in that lineup.

Guardians? They are in the line-up. :p

I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of a guardian killing someone with burning though…

I don’t think BG is uniformly against GvGs, some of our guilds GvG regularly. Its just done such that it occurs at the end of the week so as to not interfere with people who want to play WvW.

We had an issue not long ago where a GvG cost us a T3 keep, and a lot of kitten started getting flung around because of it. This is why it is done at the end of the week.

SykkoB.9465:

For the most part it is ONLY YOUR SERVER that has the biggest issue with GVG.

I’m sure you have absolutely zero ways of substantiating that claim.

ParaldaWind.4523:

There is no conflict between the “WvW” community and the “GvG” community. The GvG community IS the WvW community.

You regularly have people coming in here and crying about it or making other threads about it, the fact that you don’t see them before they get deleted doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

I can at the very least tell you that in NA T1 opinions are wide and variable on the subject.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Every single big WvW guild does GvGs, and I’d argue that GvG guilds take up at least 60-70% of the total hours played in WvW.

I can confirm this to be patently false. In fact some of us dislike GvG in its entirety because it completely subverts the whole concept of free-range PvP where terrain and other factors play a big part in deciding the winner.

I’m pretty sure HB isn’t small, either.

milo.6942:

are we really having a discussion about pvp gear progression
really

Sorry. I’ll stop now.

uberkingkong.8041:

Thing is getting better gear is a bigger incentive than just ranking up. In competitive MMOs people hardly ever play for the fun, its all about the incentive this game right now as barely any incentives.

And its also a huge disincentive to a new player, who wants to play without having to grind the pre-requisite 1000 hours just to be able to compete. Or a new character, since these sorts of grinds are never account related but character locked. (See WvW threads about WvW Ranks being character locked.)

uberkingkong.8041:

That guy that got ultimate dominator, that was his incentive, since nobody really cared about it or not he quit as well.

You really need to stop repeating this incorrect statement as if it helps you. Sarcx did not quit because he got UD and no one cared (plenty of people were mighty impressed), he quit because he had done all there was to do in WvW + RL. Stop trying to imply causation from correlation.

uberkingkong.8041:

I get what your saying by not having to grind to be competitive, but they can always make a mode where everyone is equal and have open world pvp server where the dude with the master sword could woop your kitten .

What is WvW.

uberkingkong.8041:

In other MMO’s you grind because you have to, you have reasons to grind which makes the whole grind worth it. Its not just some pointless grind for gold.

I don’t play games to work or to be forced to do something, I work to work.

PvP is about Player vs. Player.
Not Player vs. Gear Check.
If I want Player vs. Gear Check I’ll play PvE.

Grinding is an artificial stimulant; it does not make a bad game good, it just makes getting to the actual game a long and tedious process, hiding the faults of the game behind an illusion of achievement. In GW1 no one enjoyed grinding a billion ettin to unlock their Superior Runes, and we had that system abolished because it was a waste of time.

WoW, Wildstar (soon), Rift, and probably even TESO (if it can survive its suicidal triple dipping greed), are all about hiding their actual game behind hours of grinding. Often times, these games don’t actually have “good” PvP or even mechanics, and if they did they wouldn’t need crap time-gating to prevent a player from entering the fray (unless they were simply greedy for time-gating their subscription funds).

WvW is an odd-ball in this case because the whole system is designed around unfairness: player numbers, orbs (old and new), up-levels, ascended gear, foods and oils, ranks, siege. Its pretty much contained, no-holds-barred PvPvE.

This is also a problem with many of these modern shooters where you have to grind ranks for your weapons to be even semi-functional. Its stupid game design based on addiction and short attention span.

Did you lose because your opponent places his frag grenade at exactly the right place as he took down your shield?
Or…
Did you lose because your opponent played for 1000 extra hours to have less spread on his gun so that he could just hold down the trigger to shoot out a full clip at your face?

Why anyone would want the latter is beyond me. I like to know I was beaten by a better player, not by a who’s time sheet is longer.

AndrewSX.3794:

If map size doesn’ change (and it won’t) those 5 points will be way too close each other imo.

Cluttering the map, increasing the density of cap points (and thus players) instead of spreading them. So those might be even counterproductive in that sense.

I guess it’s way too early to tell tho. But i’m not very confident.

Map size certainly won’t be changing, but I do not think that point density is as big an issue for spreading players out or not. One of the bigger draws of WvW is that it is rather fast paced, not having to go far or trek across miles of terrain just to fight people.

The cap points themselves seem to have differing designs + elevations (adv/disadv to the defenders/attacks) as well the conquest mechanic which will inevitably require some defenders since its out in the open. The pentagram design seems to put them at around the same separation as Garri to Bay (roughly) and longer on the diagonal. A single zerg would never be able to cover and cap three such points without being forced to leave defenders to avoid back-capping/de-capping.

Of course this is rather idyllic.

Either way, they certainly give something new for small squads/havoc/roamers that are of rather large importance. I can’t imagine a zerg is just going to camp three of the five nodes while the other two servers have free reign on the map, for instance.

The forcing of choice is always a good thing in this sort of gametype. Do I X or do I Y? One should have to weigh these costs and benefits, and borderlands have been lacking this sort of decision making since the removal of orbs.

I’ll use guardian as an example:

Bad guardian blows SYG on some worthless CC.
Bad guardian gets properly CC’ed and now that his SYG is gone, dies.
or…
Bad guardian doesn’t have SYG up to secure a stomp, gets stopped/CC’ed and loses his stomp, the enemy is rezzed, and the fight is lost.

This is the simplest example, and one very easy to see when a player plays a bad guardian. The cooldown is a strong punishment when, as a guardian without cooldowns, can be killed in a couple of seconds.

Jezynka.2651:

Well, Anet said they want epic battles in wvw but they boosted AC (and still are constantly boosting sieges and zerging) which kills these battles. Now are people sitting whole day behind walls with 10 ACs and shooting everything that moves or moving only in 60+ blobs and skill lagging others… With random matchups and no incentive in gaining points for server there’s no reason to siege at all. Without GvG the organized wvw community would die moths ago (or shrink to nothing). When Anet starts doing changes that make wvw more fun I may respect their desires. Now I will be playing with what game supports (and large battles are not) and what is most fun – GvG, organized guild raids in open field, arranged 1v1 etc.

The new orbs seem to be a bit of rock & hard place stick for ANet and Devon.

If they are desirable enough (offering powerful buffs) then they will by necessity of their spread out, multi-point capture require that zergs split up to capture and hold these while some people are left at structures for scouting. A full 80 man zerg is just not going to be able to cover that much terrain at sufficient speeds to stop multiple 20-mans or some such capping or decapping the points. But the buff will kill GvG (fairness) on the BLs.

Conversely, if the buff does nothing of worth (Magic Find/Gold Find zzzzz) then no one will care about it and continue their 80 man zerging all over the map. But GvG will be safe.

uberkingkong.8041:

At least other MMO’s have a worthwhile achievement at the end of the grind compared to GW2.

No, they really don’t. In fact they have very, very bad rewards at the end of their grinds: increases in power (WoW, Rift, Wildstar). Leet numberz for mah grindz! We have that bad enough in WvW now with Leech and Defense but at least the grind is minimal (especially with the new boost in rank gain).

Keep that crap out of s/tPvP.

uberkingkong.8041:

Look at the WvW’er that got Ultimate Dominator, he quit.

He didn’t quit because of the grind, he quit from a mix of feeling he’d done what there was to do in WvW and real life.
Correlation does not imply causation 101.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Wildstar has a monthly fee. I’m done with that. There is no way a monthly fee MMO can avoid grind. It needs grind hard to keep those monthly payments. It’s not a good business model for the players’ interests.

Of course it has grind, the whole end game is raid tiering designed, it even has PvP Gear treadmill.

evilapprentice.6379:

I’ve got a separate post concerning this issue (which I assume to be lag) up at the moment.

I’ve been having terrible lag spikes through out the weekend where this would happen.

Press a button, say Shelter, and I just stand there… Shelter eventually goes off or I am dead. Or I attempt a dodge and it doesn’t fire off until I’m in the middle of casting a skill.

My internet was fine as far as I could tell but it was very odd in that it only occured at a very specific point in time and only for about an hour. I thought it was WvW being its usual self but there was nothing going on on the map, and later when we had a 3-way clusterkitten in Garrison the game was running smooth.

aelfwe.4239:

1/3 times one of the two party will be in 4 against 5

I’m pretty sure, in 50 some games, 4v5 has happened twice. Once was because lolskyhammer and the other was someone crashing out of the game for the majority of it.

But anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

aelfwe.4239:

1/3 times one of the two party will have uncopetitive setup (something like 4 mesmer/1 thief or 3 mesmer/2ele and so on)

Swap characters before the match starts? You can’t honestly complain about randomness in a random arena.

aelfwe.4239:

1/3 times one of the two party will have 2 member with rank <10 while other party will have all rank 30/40+

Rank 13 reporting in, sir!

Nuka Cola.8520:

Almost every1 wants this garbage trait system of theirs to be changed.

WTB evidence.

You were looking for a Korean made, grindy MMO with atrocious looking gameplay?

Lycus.2834:

I think this is a rather unfair comment. Yes the level doesn’t mean everything. But let’s not forget what a level stands for : games played.

But ranks shows you only sPvP experience (or just time spent, and cannot be discerned from HotJoins). Players can be coming from a plethora of WvW experience (like myself) or simply PvE experience where they have learned their class. The majority of the work necessary in PvP is team work and communication aside from personal player skill/experience.

If you start grouping based on player ranks rather than ELO/MMR, you start to group people on completely arbitrary metrics, metrics that can be farmed in CA deathmatches. And then what? Do I have to be rank X to play with rank Xs or Ys? Why?

If a match in SoloQ is lost, its not usually as matter of rank, its a matter of people just having their thumbs up their kitten and playing as if they were the greatest players eva! that could solo everything (ie. hotjoin heroes).

I am rank 13, and ranked 636th in SoloQ.

I get constantly matched up with people from 50s to 10s to 1s, the number next to a person’s name is almost next to irrelevant unless its literally a 1.

Jscull.2514:

Open field fighting isn’t running around with 25 other teal names around you fighting some red just not at an actual objective lol…

Yes it is?

Urrid.4593:

I wonder if the rest of the map got a much needed face lift? A few extra details like trees / hiding spots go a long way.

Now to wait (while playing FF14.)

They added trees around Lake, seems there’s a lot more chokes/camo/terrain elevation in the field and its not just one big flat landmass with a hill on one side and a bay on the other.

Halo.8976:

Bringing sPvP to WvW, where you need to capture 3 points for this new buff, “borderlands bloodlust”.

Welcome to launch! Where taking a keep, tower, or camp was all about standing in a circle.

Now pull your head out of your kitten .

Ayusaki.6739:

I hope they release more information soon, because I’m speculating way too much.

You have five points and one huge center castle ruin.

Hold 3 of 5 for some time, something occurs in the central castle that you then have to capture? If you lose the points, you lose the ability to capture/hold it. Maybe.

There’s a HUGE castle ruin in the middle of the lake.

Looked pretty cool though, I like the open field points of contest and, at least the one we were shown, is disadvantaged by height for defenders. I wonder if the others will have similar topological (dis)/advantages.

Seems there’s next to no water left, on either.

I’m pretty excited, for once.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I liked the writing in Guild Wars 1.

. . . but only after roughly the halfway point of Prophecies. Crystal Desert onwards was actually pretty decent (if still highly cliche), but leading up to it was a mess.

Prophecies was roller-coaster of writing shenanigans.
-> Help our people! Get kicked out (betrayed) by your king!
-> Follow your Prince! He dies…
-> Seek help from powerful nation! Turns out they are madmen, they betray you!
-> Try to escape. Bet you thought you were safe! Betrayed by comrade.
-> Run to seek help from powerful Vizier! He’s not evil or anything….
-> Run to seek help from powerful dragon! Ha jokes on you, she planned this all out!
-> Defeat evil… unleash even worse evil upon the land. That Vizier? Nah he was evil and he betrays you.
-> Defeat the evil and seal up the Vizier! Ahh… job finally done.

Why didn’t we just turn over the Vizier, to the Mursaat, so that they could use him to seal the gates forever… and then killed the Mursaat ourselves? Why did I unleash eldritch abominations across all the world?

I actually sort of liked Scarlet by comparison to that mess, or the terrible Nightfall story and “earned” godhood of a certain NPC. Scarlet was better introduced that the nonsense above, what I don’t like is her seemingly infinite resources.

Unleashed.6195:

If I can get my head out of the expectations I had for this game, expectations put in place by Guild Wars 1, I’m sure I’ll find plenty of fun here while I look for something compelling to move on to in the future.

GW1 had equally kittenty story telling, I’m not particularly sure I see where your expectations are coming from in this regard.

Prophecies was literally Backstabbed the Story x10, for example.

There’s not much you can do about Open World that won’t be trivialized by players without making the content so brutal in how it scales that people start to get at each other’s throats because “Go away! You’re overscaling the event and now we’ll wipe!”. They COULD make the mobs scale such that when 50+ people smack it around, it starts obliterating everyone… but then no one will do that content and your average person who’s just out to experience the content will get screwed over.

I like the initiative to bring the LS out of “instances” and into the open world. The mobs and the event itself are both very well designed but when it comes down to it, players will always subvert even the best created open world events because they are, well, open world and free form. I much prefer this to, say, Jubilee where you’re not even in the world, you’re in some alternate reality pie graph farming things for no real tangible reason aside from “It is and has loot, therefore it must not be.”.
In this case, now, there is a tangible (mostly, you can’t exactly ruin the world if the event fails because that would screw over new players) sense of the world doing something or something going on in the world. And, in this case, they did a good job in spreading it out all over the map, if you don’t want the zerg then there are several other events all going on concurrently that will likely have only a handful of people doing them (and those are the most fun because you can appreciate the mechanics of the Twisted mobs).

Then, you have gauntlet/Bazaar styles of updates where the entirety of the adventure falls pretty much into the realm of solo play. Its your abilities that define whether or not you’ll collect the crystals, beat Liadri, change eight light bulbs in the dark, and so on.

And lastly you have group content like the SAB, Molten Facility, Aetherblade Retreat, the Fun House, and such which are group activities but again, locked away in instances.

Jscull.2514:

The game is on one track and one track only. Zerg for points, avoid enemy player contact because its not worth points. Hit some door, jump on seige and press 3 buttons.

How does one avoid enemy players if they are behind/on top of some door? Zerging itself isn’t actually what gets you points, holding objectives is…

Holding -> Defending -> Defending = Defenders -> Defenders are Players -> Defenders fight Attackers -> Attackers must kill Defenders -> Players must fight Players.

If I and my small group build three catapults on your wall, you don’t run away from us (well unless you have no idea what you’re doing). And we’re usually not going to do it if the zerg isn’t occupied elsewhere and, in the end, what happens is small team combat where players fight players.

But I’m convinced you and I play different games, possibly on different planes of existence.

Jscull.2514:

Yea we were bored downed state made us lose fights we would win in any other game based off having to kill someone we already killed….. AGAIN.

Then you obviously didn’t kill them… now did you?

Honestly, I’m not sure when the last time was when we lost a fight because of a mechanic we were aware of long before engaging. We wipe because we kitten up or because we don’t properly choke/kite a larger force, not because of downed state. (Even rally bots are usually not an issue because we know how to lose them or how to let them die first, on purpose, before even engaging fully.)

Poison + stability stomping is your friend. I’d like to see five designated ressers, all stacked on guy taking full cleave damage, get through poison in 2 seconds. Because it won’t happen, and they’re all hilariously easy targets.

But you seem to also want PvP abilities for grinding… and in general just want to recreate the DAoC effect of: run into mob of players -> stun lock -> nuke.

Hum, my map worked every match? Is there maybe something you have to do to cause it to now show allies?

The circle jerk is strong in this one.

You guys must be bored.

Woops to late. Oh well, now I only have 20 million karma instead of 30 million.

I think I’ll live.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Why? Because people dont care anymore.

Partly, but also because most people don’t want to put up with the bullkitten in here.

I mean, to be fair, most threads in here have and always will be just circle jerks from a handful of posters just congratulating one another on agreeing about how terrible this game is/was/will forever be.

Also sPvPTV! I’ve done most of my talking there, why post in delayed form here?

Blix.8021:

I imagine that hitting the supply depot entails hitting within the treb’s aoe radius, which is already rather large and further improved by an unspecified amount with a prerequisite trait.

I imagine as much but most safe trebs cannot hit beyond just the wall (Bay to Garri for example). If you build them on the edge or in the open field, you could hit the depots definitely.

The only things I can think of are Sunny, Stonemist from several towers and conversely several towers from Stonemist, and Bay from Briar. The rest of the towers and keeps require the treb to be out in the open.

I think this was done to avoid accidentally dragging the map when trying to draw, then it getting stuck who-knows-where and being completely unable to see where anything was.

Blix.8021:

“Basic shots that hit enemy supply depots will now destroy some of the objective’s supply.”

Doesn’t sound baffling to me…

Someone will have to test how much supply it removes, though.

It has to hit the supply depot? How many trebs can even hit supply depots?

Tots.3056:

However I wonder if this will mess up keep attacks where you could just shotgun treb an outer supply depot to burn supply once you get through the outer gate. Maybe it wasn’t fully thought through.

I think that may have been the idea if you specifically have to hit the depot, open field trebbing, to discourage turtling for hours.

Does the treb have to hit the supply depot to actually destroy the supply? The wording is baffling.

Point black supply trebs go go!

1.) “Stand Your Ground!”
2-10.) “Stand Your Ground!”
Un-Honorable Mention: “Save Your Shelves!” for that key shelf saving.

KrisHQ.4719:

Regarding his last comment about excellent players dropping because of the small gap between skill-floor and skill-ceiling – Spot on.

Dunno, this statement stands out to me as rather suspect but let’s look deeper.

KrisHQ.4719:

The ability for average players to be in awe because something insane has happened is not there. I might have seen it once, where I was actually thinking to myself “Pretty nice move, I might not have thought of that”. Else I just keep thinking “Well. He didnt really do anything amazing, he basically spammed his skills and was lucky they hit”.

If the reality was as simple as this, really, do you think (for example) that Teldo’s streams/plays would be as popular as they are? Part of their appeal is to see him pull off amazing plays or win against stacked odds. I doubt, by a very extremely large margin, than any random “average” player would ever be able to pull off many of his plays. (Like his 1v2 win in the qualifiers, did he and his opponents just spam their keybinds?)

Second, I’m almost certain that any random who runs in and just smashes his face into the keyboard, will lose. Some builds certainly allow for it within some degrees, but you’re just not going to win. Take a guardian. If they just spam their skills, what exactly do they accomplish aside from being DoA?

I’m not saying the skill depth is deep or otherwise, but your statement is rather shallow, no? I think more of the problem comes about in the hurried, spammy nature of combat at the moment more than anything. Too many fire and forget spells that are effective create an illusion (and at this time, an affect) of being “good”.

Mac Maritimus.8327:

Sad to see that GW1 is still better in every PvP aspect then GW2 is now. Really, imagine the better graphic engine GW2 has with GvG mode like in GW1. Amazing and e-sport would really be real. Not a pipe-dream like now.

No, it wouldn’t have become an e-sport because it never was one. The graphics weren’t why GW1 never became anything special on the e-sport scene.

garethh.3518:

Yet it had the population of a game 6~ years down the road, after 6~ months.

I find that statement at least a bit suspect. At the top, I would probably agree, but the middle of world where most of us normal people dwell, isn’t exactly vacant (nor am I the only one with my opinion as I am sure you’re not the only one with yours).

Moreover this game has two forms of PvP, so you can’t really discount the reality of WvW and the GvG scene there (if we’re only looking for structured combat). I spend a lot of time in WvW, more of that time is spent PvPing.

TheZeus.8617:

To bad that guard invul heal gets bugged at times and still allows the condis to tick on you b4 you can heal.. killin you!

Guard invuln heal? You mean Shelter? Conditions will tick through Shelter because all it does is block incoming attacks, not stacked conditions.

garethh.3518:

a good game.

I think its a pretty good game actually.

Elochai.1280:

That most of the match ups every week are greatly unbalanced?

Actually its about 50/50 (NA), though this week seems to be starting off worse than usual. Usually T1 + T5/6 are usually consistently close with T4 and T7/8 being chaotic between good and blow-out.

T2 and T3 are stuck in hell because TC is stuck in T1.5 and they will completely demolish wherever they end up.

Fenrir.5493:

That is because… you know, its an MMORPG???

No… you said introduce/bring drastic change. Its a cookie cutter MMO modeled after WoW by Vanilla WoW devs for Vanilla WoW players. Therein your statement, to which I replied, is at odds with your current statement.

Fenrir.5493:

That game is not trying to be anything very drastic different its taking all the things that worked in other games and use them, also combat is kind of revolutionary and actually more skilled based than the other MMORPG because you actually need to aim your attacks not like the auto target that every other MMORPG uses.

You may want to actually read up on the game but let me clue you in:

• Homing missiles
• It has traditional tab-targeting as well as its “aiming system”, which is just another way of saying: “aim cones at things to hit them” that has existed since Ultimate Online.

Fenrir.5493:

And like you said, the path option seems thakittens going to be very good.

No, the path option is stupid inorganic gameplay gating. I was talking about warplots.

It could well be the best MMO evar but since it hasn’t released and barely anyone’s actually given the thing proper playing, it is as much a hopeful shine on the horizon as Godot’s arrival is to your future.

Master of Timespace.2548:

But combat isn’t necessarily bad once certain issues are dealt with. The node game however, is bad and will always be so.

Would you like to follow your seeming statement of fact with some actual… reasons for why you seem to believe that it is a fact?