Guild Wars 2

styx.7294:

Don’t be stupid. No one person said both things and it isn’t even relevant to some of the points presented.

No I am simply mocking the forums and trying to show that there is never a communal opinion.

If you want an opinion, the OP is crying for the sake of crying. WXP chests for everyone? Boohoo. We were already giving PvErs free buffs and now they get a worthless chest or three, meanwhile I get 50+ chests and whatever extra little bonus gets added in for having actually played. WXP rewards for killing people? Oh no! How dare people be rewarded for anything other than karma training empty keeps! Boombox? Why is this even a complaint? Its just an addition and probably took zero developer effort to add.

Dico.4815:

Why ? I am in the sever that is winning the current match up.

Which tells me little, is it hard to say what server it is… or would that possibly undermine your point by elucidating that either you’re fibbing or are on JQ who is currently stealing candy from small children?

Dico.4815:

I’m in the winner server.

The what? Do I assume you’re just trolling at this point?

“Karma training is bad! Give us rewards for fighting people!”
.
.
A few days later…
.
.
“Why are you rewarding us for killing people? Stop it!”

Dico.4815:

The buff isn’t a must. You can leave the ruins there and nothing is different in the wvw scenery. It is also hard to find good fights there, its easier to find in supply camps/sentries. lol

I’m not sure what T1 you are playing on, but the buff is most certainly a must and they are most certainly populated.

Kentrey.3251:

A. Incresed supply capacity (15% – 50%). This number would bring up the amount of supply each person brings around making building seige,and defending towers actually possible. (even though 1 man with 15 supply isn’t going to get the job done. 5-10 can actually do something with it. And it’ll make the 3 trips back to create an arrow cart down to 2.

These sorts of ideas are terrible and need to stop being suggested. They don’t help an outmanned server anymore than they help the overmanned server because the overmanned server can go to a map where they are outmanned but not in danger, get 50% more supply by rotating through its people, and then coming back to the proper map with 50% more supply.

People already do this with Siegerazor to insta-supply a whole zerg. We don’t need whole zergs with 50% more supply.

Xom.9264:

Hacking was not happening on all servers or even all match ups.

That’s a good joke.

At the point where the orbs were removed, there wasn’t a server that wasn’t getting hacked or hacking. It was really, really bad at that point. Invulnerable lord glitches from the hackers, disappearing orbs off map, everyone pointing fingers at everyone else.

I’m actually amazed that the seven or so of you that drive (and make) each and every one of these threads, haven’t gotten bored yet. Its like the antithesis to krall.

Its almost admirable.

I do think we’ve come full circle though:

• Buffs suck, ruined balance! Keep stomp and map!
• Stomp sucks, too many points are not from PvD, how dare 40% of our points come from fighting! Keep only the map!
• Map sucks! (No clue what the reason for this one is…)

And two weeks ago, we were crying about:

• Change the maps or give new ones! This is boring!
• Too much reward for PvDoor! Reward the fighting!

The wonders of the internet.

Lord Kuru.3685:

This. They seem to be pushing hardcore players toward sPvP by destroying the aspects of WvW that these players enjoy about WvW.

I hear, that if you repeat the ramblings of a jester, it will inevitably become true!

ThaOwner.7560:

or that this was a copy/paste of spvp cap points and there was no testing at all

All of five minutes in sPvP would quickly inform you that no part of sPvP works this way.

Thrumdi.9216:

From the point of view of the individual player, the small group, or even the zerg, it is random. You have no control over when it is going to be applied to you or your opponents, or when it will be removed.

Two minutes is usually not enough time to respond in force, but the whole point is that you do not have the time to respond in force. You have to dedicate time and people across all three maps to ensure holding it concurrently. This was one of the biggest problems with orbs; you could lock them down inside a T3 keep and take your sweet, sweet time to get there to defend. Biggest server got the orbs? Biggest server kept them pretty much indefinitely. Now, biggest server really does have a two vs. one on their hands if they want to hold all three because they are out on the open on two opposing home fields.

Thrumdi.9216:

The only level at which Bloodlust could be called non-random is that of the overall server population. And only then if everyone, on all 3 BL maps, was in communication and coordinating their control of the 15 cap points.

Even in a Tier 1 server, that is basically impossible. So the behaviour you get is the same as with any very large group of people acting individually (like a city or country), the overall results are essentially going to be random.

This isn’t a multi-layered chaotic system, this is fifteen nodes across three maps that all behave in the exact same way every time. You can have an overlay on your screen that shows you the status of said nodes in ~real time~. The game itself tells you with its spastic blinking when a buff is in danger.

Thrumdi.9216:

That just produces too much randomness — a 300 stat swing — for a PvP game.

This isn’t randomness. You’re not using the word correctly. Randomness would imply that, at arbitrary times, the server just gives the buff to someone.

This is called: being outplayed and/or outmaneuvered.

Blix.8021:

difference between the world bonuses and the orb buffs is all 3 servers gain world bonuses at the same time. Unless the matchup is a total blowout, each server will have roughly the same amount of +hp and +heal from the world bonus.

Half of this whole charade is: “But blowouts are even bigger blowouts now!” Before Bloodlust, just go to mos history, more than half of the matches sat around with one server being maxed on Medic/Robust within a couple of days relative to its struggling opponents.

These are buffs that cannot be removed.

If the match isn’t a complete blowout, then perhaps you should consult DB/FA/JQ/SoR on how they manage to have the buff despite being the losing teams.

Sarrs.4831:

Healing, or healing power?

Its raw healing, not healing power.

And yes, I know its not as big an issue if the match is actually balanced, but most everyone isn’t talking about balanced or close to balanced matches, they are talking about blowouts and super blowouts.

4% health on a commander in vit stacked hear, is anywhere from 90 (Guardian → 22k) to 120 (Warrior/Necro – 30k+) vitality.

Ostra.3927:

uhmm thank you for proving my point?

This is horrible for the majority of SERVERS.. notice I never said majority of players.

Now, since you want everyone to stack in order to play WvW… care to give us transfer money?

I am not trying to prove a point. The majority of servers house a minority of the overall WvW population. That is a flaw that is ingrained in the system and is next to impossible to fix in any organic fashion and would risk fracturing very large player communities in the hopes of fixing something that may not be fixable.

If they are designing content for the “majority” then, like it or not, that content will be designed around the top tiers.

Moreover, the Bloodlust buff for which the sky has apparently fallen, has and will pretty much exist in all RvR games. It has existed in this game since long before Bloodlust/Orbs were (re)introduced and that buff has not even been removable, it was simply a matter of life and its no small buff either.

Lorelei.3918:

Bloodlust buff makes fair fights and duels impossible.

Medic – 10% healing increase.
Robust – 10% health increase.

Has existed since launch, has always been making said things unfair. Just to put it to scale, anything outside of a Thief/Ele/Guardian, was getting at least 150 vitality worth of health from this, some builds and classes were getting 250+ vitality. Medic can reach upwards of several hundred points worth of healing power depending on the skill’s healing power coefficient.

Ostra.3927:

This may have finally broke the back of the lower tiers. The top 5-6 servers will see little to no affect.

Basic math would indicate that most of the people playing WvW are in the top 5-6 servers. Pretty sure SoR/BG/JQ at any given moment, individually, have more people on a borderland than the bottom servers have on all maps in a match up combined.

Kalan.9705:

Pretty sure it can’t be new pve content e.g. Teakettle, because not even the 24/7 queens pavilion farm fest had anything like this impact on numbers, or guilds or commanders.

It’s like everyone ask just gave up at the same time, it’s bizarre!

Pretty sure Queens-circuit doesn’t cause triple overflows, completely impenetrable home server instances and even overflows, or have near two hundred people in TS concurrently.

Lots of people are doing Tequatl, deal with it.

Krypto.2069:

I think the majoirity of folks do not like the WvW changes as a “whole.”

Or the majority of folks are, you know, playing, possibly enjoying themselves, and certainly not posting on this forum?

You’ve had stat buffs since launch for being the stronger server (10% Health and Healing), would you like to delete WvW as a whole or did you simply not realize that it already existed?

Super Kruegs.8967:

NE, SE,NW,SW corners of the BL

So, in the spawn of the two attacking servers?

And in the centaur/skritt area which are a stones throw from the Citadel? Basically giving away two nodes for free? The third being just south of said teams own garrison?

Caedmon.6798:

Can be,but it is a good example of whats going on,and this was for them the icing on the cake,as it is for many other people..Honestly i Love wvw…its making me sad to see where this all is going.

Well no, the whole point of it being a bad example… is that its not a good example, but a bad one.

Caedmon.6798:

Are you blindfolded ?

To be fair, FIRE was a bad example; they went through this same thing when NW launched.

At least post it before they do the fix, this just seems silly now.

Sarrs.4831:

Yes? So from whence cometh “this is a balanced/balancing mechanic”? Stacked servers can and will send more people to capture these objectives. Because of this, they will usually win more, barring obscenely huge differentials in skill which don’t actually exist, and even if they did, would be nullified by the “bad stacked server”‘s ability to source three Bloodlust buffs compared to yours’ one.

I didn’t say it was a balancing mechanic?

Medic/Robust aren’t balancing mechanics (look’em up, they’ve existed since launch). 24/7 gameplay isn’t a balancing mechanic. Gear isn’t a balancing mechanic.

There hasn’t been anything even remotely close to fair in WvW for a year and a month now. They just gave some of the imbalance to small teams, for once.

Sarrs.4831:

Excluding buffs, it’s pretty much impossible to kill 3 exotic-geared players on your own. The ‘zerging’ server doesn’t need to put much out to shut you down.

But that’s silly a statement to begin with, you shouldn’t be winning a 3v1 unless your opponents are absolutely terrible.

Timelord.8190:

They go where they need to go. They just need somone to scout and give a report so they can keep otunumbering the weaker server where ever they are.

To accomplish that, they’d need to either have a small force on each node (yes, that means all five) or have ungodly loading times and movement. The server doesn’t need to take all three of your nodes, they just need one of your nodes and two of the other nodes.

Timelord.8190:

Those points can also be zerged so you don’t have any point.

They going to sit on top of three points with 30+ people on each over three maps?

If they can afford to do that, 150+ stats was the least of your problems.

clint.5681:

I like the new areas but not the buffs, i almost got onshotted earlier by someone with triple bloodlust.

How did 150+ stats tip the balance all the way to getting one shot?

Zinrae.3769:

You can do 3 leagues. They don’t all have to be the same size.
9+9+6=24
Yay!

Its probably more balanced having as few teams in the first spot as possible, let JQ/BG/SoR/TC beat each other silly with only two other casualties of war.

Joni.6830:

We were talking about SKILL lag. Lag that makes you completely unable to play your character at all. That did not happen in DaoC and WAR like it does in GW2.

You must have been absent at major sieges in WAR, kitten brightwizard death fields that lagged everyone into inactivity till death.

ensoriki.5789:

Best dev NA.
“Currently” so how much infrastructure changes are on the drawing board right now beyond Rewards and I believe tournaments?

Of what we know:

• Rewards
• Templates
• Fixing the SoloQ roster idiocy.
• Targeting fixes (Oct patch)
• Tournies
• Visual Noise → Animation clean up (not really an infrastructure thing after they added Effects LOD)

I feel like there are other things I am forgetting that have been mentioned on TV.

Solstice.1097:

Also that kind of buff MIGHT actually lead to flaming. You’re standing on a cannon getting AoE’d but taking no damage due to buff and all the sudden BAM you get melted! Now you’re going to lose an upgraded structure and it’s someone else’s fault.

You’re not going to defend a structure because you are invulnerable on a cannon, like I said the cannon is still going to die (otherwise more people would be spec-ed into oil mastery). I’d rather the 20+ people needed to cancel outmanned show up to defend than have a slightly stronger cannon. I can’t think of a single instance in which someone would cry about a cannon or, moreso, in which a single cannon caused you to lose a keep/tower.

Solstice.1097:

I do like the idea of faster repairs or increased supply capacity when outmanned.

Team A finds empty BL → Team A rotates through and grabs 20 supply → Team A is actually 80 people, now carrying 1600 supply.

Relentliss.2170:

Any class with a big health pool and a strong condition build is pretty much godmode.

Until they face a warrior, and roll over dead.

But yes, less spam.

Here’s an idea, and one I’m sure “people won’t shout at each other to leave the map” over.

Outmanned:

• Take no armor damage.
• Take no damage while using fortification siege (the siege can still be killed).
• Deal 50(maybe 100)% more damage with fortification siege.
• Double the value of all supply spent on fortification siege. (Its abusable but since its fairly limited and easy to kill, its not as broken/abusable as applying the same to walls or doors.)

In reality that does little more than force a siege cleaning run first and foremost from attackers, but it makes mortars pretty potent for defense if you know how to place the shot.

Still won’t really stop catapults or trebs but, eh, can’t make it impossible to attack an outmanned force.

Straegen.2938:

Rally and downed state are two different things.

Haha fair enough, I completely misread.

Aberrant.6749:

That’s one of the big reasons I don’t sPvP… very few options statwise. You get runes, sigils, and one neck/jewel. That’s it. While that might be easier for them to balance… it means a lot of builds that are viable and fun in WvW aren’t in sPvP.

There’s no food or oil either which are often times clutch in optimizing (or even permitting) certain specs to function, and many runes are restricted from sPvP. The variety of sPvP specs would probably be greatly improved if the amulet could be “allocated” in stats but with caps on Major/Minor/Minor/X-Minor stat allocations. The amulet doesn’t need to be removed if its actually given statistical freedom to simulate a whole armor set.

Straegen.2938:

A step in the right direction, but IMO in WvW they should just remove it. Probably would be a minor improvement to skill lag as well.

Far too much offensive power in WvW to completely remove the downed state mechanic. People would drop like flies in less time than they can humanly react.

Limiting the rally count to 5 would make a lot more sense if you wanted to do something about rallybait.

Jinks.2057:

1.)No ppl use siege in open field b/c the game has been hard coded for it

2.)This isn’t about behind the windmill fun. Infact you’ve been trying to reference this since the beginning. No this post is about Open fields, roaming, 1v1, 1vX, etc.

3.)PvE will always trump b/c that’s the way it is in EVERY MMO….but then you can make a case for the fact you need to PvE to WvW. sPvP you can do right outta the gate….yet its a dead game mode. It’s all about letting us play the way we want, and your stance is the reason we are in this predicament we currently are

1.) Which has nothing to do with your statement of “We don’t want siege wars!” You just don’t seem to want siege, at all. Nowhere have you substantiated your claim either.

2.) You called me a liar about “No one wants the buff!” then when proven wrong, talk about some other thing.

3.) Its not about letting anyone other than you, and your definitions, play the game the way they want. You keep throwing the sPvP community under the bus for “the way we want”.

Jinks.2057:

See this is where you fail even harder. PvE wins over all game modes so Anet is catering to the majority already. This is about playing WvW how players want, and telling the devs to wake up. WvW is the majority.

This whole thread started with “Gimme sPvP resources!” Then went on to make false claims that you can’t even corroborate. And are throwing around this odd word about “our way” but its really “my way” since you are not multiple people.

Jinks.2057:

Whatever else you are posting or reading into you should prolly stop b/c all you are doing is making yourself look really bad.

Don’t worry about me, I can take care of myself.

Jinks.2057:

1. Siege Wars refers to Open field Siege creep.
2. No one has stated they want the bonuses..stop lying
3. sPvP is dead. They are not the majority. WvW far outnumbers sPvP and infact i’m willing to bet that 1 week of WvW players far outnumbers months of sPvP players. You give dev time to what the majority of your players play not cling to some dead game mode literally the tiniest fraction of your player base plays.

Oh ho, this is getting easier and easier.
1.) People like to use siege in the open field, just because you disagree with it doesn’t invalidate it or mean that no one likes it.
2.) There was a thread (god knows what the moderators did with it) that, I’m pretty sure, wasn’t 100% No on buffs. Even in that flawed sampling, there are clearly people who do want them. No lies there. (More to the point, its not “buffs” that people are specifically against. Its statistical buffs, many people would probably not even give a kitten if the buffs allowed you to nuke every structure on every map so long as their behind the windmill fun wasn’t ruined.)
3.) Comically, you could just as soon say the same of yourself with regards to the PvE population. Meanwhile your statement has nothing to do with what I or you said: “Let people play the game we want to play!” because at this point you’re just saying: “Let people play the game we want to play, so long as its my version of WvW and not sPvP!” I don’t think you can marry the former and latter statements.

Jinks.2057:

The majority has spoken and you really need to realize it.

And the larger majority plays PvE. Time to close up shop on WvW and sPvP me thinks!

The majority has, after-all, spoken.

Jinks.2057:

Nope it’s about them letting us, the players, decide how we WANT to play the game.

That’s the point.

But its never that clear cut, now is it? Certainly isn’t for you because you don’t want to let anyone play the game in the way they want to unless its the way you want them to play the game.

Here, let me quote you:
“We don’t want siegewars.” ~ Some people do.
“We don’t want orb bonuses.” ~ Some people do.
“Please give us the dev time and let sPvP get life support dev focus for once…” ~ Some people like sPvP and would rather you not abuse it anymore than it already has been.

Ho boy. Would you look at that? Its not about we, its about me.

There’s a reason he got blacklisted from alpha.

Now there’s a reason he’s going to be blacklisted from any and every other game’s alpha.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Hmm, maybe it’s some newly formed guild tags. I thought I saw [LP] little paws, and [HoB] house of bookah recently.

Small guilds may be transferring every which way, that’s next to impossible for someone to track, but I am unaware of “big” guild movements in, only out.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Because such an argument is pointless fodder: It’s “only” X% between any of the tiers!

So why even have gear at all?

LoneWolfie.1852:

Well that is certainly interesting, I thought there were some recent transfers to JQ and BG, not outside.

Outside of ESOL which was months ago, now, I am unaware of any one transferring to Blackgate.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Swamurabi.7890:

Even though the posters on the forum might be a minority of players, when you go back 50 pages of threads, there are only a handful that get to 300 posts. This should be enough to tell you that it is a topic of interest that the players are seriously concerned with.

It tells you only that a handful of people have a lot of time on their hands (me included). Just go through those threads and start checking off repeat posters… you’re going to have very few unique posters.

LoneWolfie.1852:

This is news to me. Tell me which guilds left for FA.

RISE has left BG.

I won’t mention who is (possibly) leaving JQ.

Mada.5319:

Oh, so you’ve gotten an ascended back piece from WvW? I’d like to know how…..

He didn’t say “all”.

Okaishi.8320:

This argument is as relevant for 150 increased stats or some added defense against siege. Plus I think siege protection has more strategic relevance than just throwing some additional stats in the mix.

150 stats imbalances everything evenly; siege defender imbalances one thing greatly or plays to the “don’t touch what I like, touch this other thing”.

That is the bias.

Okaishi.8320:

On the one hand a keep can be an extreme pain to attack unless you resort to golems, on the other hand it can flip really fast if you just throw enough of them akitten There’s some risk involved in the latter one though, but things are generally less risky the more numbers you’re packing.

Well of course, when you outnumber 100:1, you’re not really taking a risk. :P

Taking a keep is hard, forcing a keep into defensive submission generally isn’t. Pressuring Bay/Hills with five to ten people is incredibly easy and effective if coordinated with larger guilds. Or small scale attacks on a tower while pressure is more directly applied to a Keep by a blob. This is common play in T1.

The response is often times small groups which invites small scale combat.

Okaishi.8320:

I have a problem though when the opponent has some advantage over you just because of the simple fact that they have more coverage.

This statement can be stated and slated against any buff that has value. Some people like having siege in open field fights, some people don’t. Some people like “structured PvP”, some people don’t. The list goes on.

Fact of the matter is, a stat buff is immediate and always important, therein always relevant for people fighting over the ruins.

morrolan.9608:

Very good point, interesting that they realise that to some extent that have to accommodate the small scale PvP community but they completely disregard the hardcore WvW community.

Because it easy to define the PvP community.

Who the hell is the “hardcore WvW community”? Is it the PPT guilds? Is it the roaming guilds? Is it the GvG guilds? Is it the guilds who do some of all?

Aurust.8961:

Trebs from keep roof.

Fine. Mendons.

I don’t think that can be hit from any structure or high ground that isn’t directly adjacent.