Guild Wars 2

Checkout some of the effect-on-heal runes. Those are good for a support role. Rune of the Water comes to mind for some AoE heals that won’t conflict with your Regeneration if you go that route. If you decide not to take healing banners, Rune of Dwayna will give youAoE regen on heal which will synergize very well with your points in Tactics.

Rip: 1.92 coefficient
Tremor: 0.80

Even if you land the melee hit followed by the projectile, it’s still lower. I’m not calling you a liar, but perception is hardly reality. Sword 5 only gives 1 block in melee. Outside of melee, it’s a 2 second block on a 15 second CD, and comparing it’s defensive abilities to warhorn, which has 0 offense unless you count a blast finisher, and shield, which only has a stun on a 25 second cooldown for offense is a pointless comparison… it makes sense that those have better defense because they have next to no offense. That’s also why I carefully chose the statement, “very capable of performing in a defensive role”. It isn’t the best, but it’s certainly not the worst.

winshmo.7896:

No one other than condi builds would use offhand sword and when they do they’re sacrificing a lot of damage negation for that.

This is not true. Offhand sword has the best direct damage burst available to any offhand in the form of Rip. It is also very capable of performing in a defensive role.

Greatsword and Axe/X give the best DPS in PvE.

If you give me 2 builds that you want to compare, I can tell you exactly how long it would take your healing investment to surpass an equal investment in vitality. It’s possible to make a warrior that heals pretty successfully, but you will still sacrifice a lot of damage compared to running something with heals and soldier gear.

Lighter.5631:

Veritas.6071:

Lighter.5631:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ug-Bx;0NKVO0d4kK-60;9;5O-TE;139;224A5;0R-F2U;1OZG5OZG53Ni

here it is, well, didn`t used that much time to come up with it, but after a few matches, i think it‘s really cool.

Do you think Banner of Strength or Banner of Discipline would be better? If you went with an offensive banner, you’d significantly increase your ability to pressure people off of the point. With Strength, you’d see over a 10% increase in damage. With Discipline, you’d push your crit chance up into the 40s… I can’t test right now, but with that 30% boon duration from Tactics, your Regen should already be hitting for 4 seconds instead of 3… I doubt you even need that 10% boon duration outside of it granting another 3 seconds on your elite and 1/2 second to your might stacks… both of which are next to nothing when compared to an additional 170 power/condi dmg or prec/15% crit damage.

i thought that healing power would benefits more because i get 3 kind of regen ticking at the same time, if im not wrong. in additional, 40% boon duration you can get 42 second signet of fury and 11 second stability.

Coefficient on Signet is ~.05, Regen is ~.12, Adrenal Health is about .15/3 seconds so .05. Add em all up:

.22 × 170 = ~37 hp/second along with 3 seconds on elite and ~1 second on stability

It’s up to you if that outweights the offensive bonuses(almost 11% increased damage from Strength or 8% crit from Discipline). I would say no, but it’s your game.

Take 37 and divide it by how much HP you gain per second. I guarantee you it’s a drop in the bucket… probably below 5% loss in healing for pretty substantial offensive gains.

Daecollo.9578:

Popping healing signet should be an emergency, I think it should be more of a very long cool-down highish heal, more 60 second cooldown. It should only be used for disengaging from the fight.

No reason to limit something that isn’t overpowered. Some people may want to work on-heal effects into their build. Let them do what they want.

Lighter.5631:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ug-Bx;0NKVO0d4kK-60;9;5O-TE;139;224A5;0R-F2U;1OZG5OZG53Ni

here it is, well, didn`t used that much time to come up with it, but after a few matches, i think it‘s really cool.

Do you think Banner of Strength or Banner of Discipline would be better? If you went with an offensive banner, you’d significantly increase your ability to pressure people off of the point. With Strength, you’d see over a 10% increase in damage. With Discipline, you’d push your crit chance up into the 40s… I can’t test right now, but with that 30% boon duration from Tactics, your Regen should already be hitting for 4 seconds instead of 3… I doubt you even need that 10% boon duration outside of it granting another 3 seconds on your elite and 1/2 second to your might stacks… both of which are next to nothing when compared to an additional 170 power/condi dmg or prec/15% crit damage.

Our sustain just saw a significant buff. Why don’t we wait to see what happens? Besides, the active isn’t worthless. It is still equal to 8 seconds of the passive. You can use it as a “last gasp”. We certainly don’t need any heals with stun breaks. Nor do we need our strongest heal to act as another Endure Pain or be capable of 50% uptime on Prot.

…If you give a mouse a cookie…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Dc1ZBJB3U

oZii.2864:

with 300 healing power I get 407 per tick according to the tool tip. I replaced my 2 soldier pieces with clerics just to get a bit more sustain everything else all zerk.

Let’s just pretend for a second that you are gaining 200 healing power and losing 100 vitality. If your only source of healing is the signet, it will take your 200 healing power about 66 seconds to = 100 vitality. The heals are stronger, but I wouldn’t be rushing to throw on clerics gear. The only coefficient that was changed significantly was Healing Surge.

Veritas:
Healing Surge:
Every stage should look like:
0: 5868(0.9) 195.6 HPS without healing power
1: 6526(1.0) 217.5 HPS
2: 8139(1.25) 271 HPS
3: 9823(1.5) 327.4 HPS
Strength will come from those massive coefficients. Stage 3 heal at 1500 healing power will look like:
9823 + 1500(1.5) = 12082 or 402 HPS.

Mending:
5226(.8) 261 HPS without healing power

Healing Signet (Passive):
392 healing per second to 467 healing per second with 1500 healing power.

If my math is correct, Healing Signet is the choice for straight healing. Mending still provides a solid middle of the road heal as well as now removing 3 condis. Healing Surge brings the extra utility of adrenaline control combined with the ability to get a really, really solid heal at full adrenaline.

Cogbyrn:
Thanks for the initial assessment, Veritas. I think my main concern with Healing Signet would be the impact Poison has on it, assuming Poison would reduce the HPS of the passive. At least with Mending it’ll cure Poison before the heal goes off (if memory serves, and if you aren’t caked with condis), and Healing Surge could be timed to try to avoid poison, or remove poison with another ability before healing.
I’m still excited to play with it. I love me some options, and with my general “hit-and-run” playstyle of going in and out of fights, a high static regen could be just what the doctor ordered.

Veritas:
Yep, I agree. If you can get your Healing Surge off without being poisoned, it’s an ultra strong heal. Also, combined with Restorative strength, Mending can cleanse up to 7 conditions every 20 seconds. Plus, you have the added security of the CC condis being stripped beforehand; which helps Mending dig even deeper to root out poison and those other damage condis.

Defektive.7283:

robocafaz.9017:

Did you guys happen to catch this change in the patch notes tied into Rampage"

“Seismic Leap: This skill has replaced Stomp. It is now a ground-targeted, 2-second AoE knockdown with a 600-unit range.”

It will likely still not see much play, but it seems to be a good testing point. It seems Mr. Peters is listening~

Needed to be a class mechanic spell, not something on Rampage.

Mobility is an important tool that every build is built around. That’s a reason why Build diversity lacks in areas.

To me, Rampage was always about holding a point; which was something we didn’t do much of. With the control no longer being about knocking people away and the added swiftness, I could see this being a great option for locking a target down, which can function in both offensive and defensive roles.

Having said that, boon stripping and stealing still worries me. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction, but with that 150 sec CD, I still don’t think it will be enough for me to drop SoR (more anti-boon anxiety), and the banner is such a game changer in team fights.

We can get lots of swiftness, control, and mobility from other sources. Plus, our new healing changes will help us stay on our feet better. So a non-Rampaging warrior can fill a very aggressive role quite well already. So, I think the question now becomes, where is that CD sweet spot that will allow this skill to reliably bring something to the table to such an extent that it can compete with SoR? I don’t think it really competes a whole lot with the banner because they fill such drastically different roles.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Veritas.6071:

Defektive.7283:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Defektive.7283:

JonPeters.5630:

The heal sig is a typo. The numbers are correct but it should say per second. Yes, that is correct, 392 health per second.

Oh.
Snap.

392/sec is pretty gd strong!

Intensely intrigued now. For those playing the home game, that’s 7840 health over a 20 second period, as opposed to 4000 (what it sounds like it was before). With no healing power (if I’m reading that correctly).

I may still prefer Healing Surge for the adren, but then again, maybe not.

Surge is going to be a 14000-15000 heal now (I believe, not at home so I can’t test).

Technically speaking, surge is still better than Signet, plus it gives adren.

Healing Surge:
Every stage should look like:
0: 5868(0.9) 195.6 HPS without healing power
1: 6526(1.0) 217.5 HPS
2: 8139(1.25) 271 HPS
3: 9823(1.5) 327.4 HPS

Strength will come from those massive coefficients. Stage 3 heal at 1500 healing power will look like:
9823 + 1500(1.5) = 12082 or 402 HPS.

---

Mending:
5226(.8) 261 HPS without healing power

---

Healing Signet (Passive):
392 healing per second to 467 healing per second with 1500 healing power.

---

If my math is correct, Healing Signet is the choice for straight healing. Mending still provides a solid middle of the road heal as well as now removing 3 condis. Healing Surge brings the extra utility of adrenaline control combined with the ability to get a really, really solid heal at full adrenaline.

Thanks for the initial assessment, Veritas. I think my main concern with Healing Signet would be the impact Poison has on it, assuming Poison would reduce the HPS of the passive. At least with Mending it’ll cure Poison before the heal goes off (if memory serves, and if you aren’t caked with condis), and Healing Surge could be timed to try to avoid poison, or remove poison with another ability before healing.

I’m still excited to play with it. I love me some options, and with my general “hit-and-run” playstyle of going in and out of fights, a high static regen could be just what the doctor ordered.

Yep, I agree. If you can get your Healing Surge off without being poisoned, it’s an ultra strong heal. Also, combined with Restorative strength, Mending can cleanse up to 7 conditions every 20 seconds. Plus, you have the added security of the CC condis being stripped beforehand; which helps Mending dig even deeper to root out poison and those other damage condis.

Defektive.7283:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Defektive.7283:

JonPeters.5630:

The heal sig is a typo. The numbers are correct but it should say per second. Yes, that is correct, 392 health per second.

Oh.
Snap.

392/sec is pretty gd strong!

Intensely intrigued now. For those playing the home game, that’s 7840 health over a 20 second period, as opposed to 4000 (what it sounds like it was before). With no healing power (if I’m reading that correctly).

I may still prefer Healing Surge for the adren, but then again, maybe not.

Surge is going to be a 14000-15000 heal now (I believe, not at home so I can’t test).

Technically speaking, surge is still better than Signet, plus it gives adren.

Healing Surge:
Every stage should look like:
0: 5868(0.9) 195.6 HPS without healing power
1: 6526(1.0) 217.5 HPS
2: 8139(1.25) 271 HPS
3: 9823(1.5) 327.4 HPS

Strength will come from those massive coefficients. Stage 3 heal at 1500 healing power will look like:
9823 + 1500(1.5) = 12082 or 402 HPS.

Mending:
5226(.8) 261 HPS without healing power

Healing Signet (Passive):
392 healing per second to 467 healing per second with 1500 healing power.

If my math is correct, Healing Signet is the choice for straight healing. Mending still provides a solid middle of the road heal as well as now removing 3 condis. Healing Surge brings the extra utility of adrenaline control combined with the ability to get a really, really solid heal at full adrenaline.

JonPeters.5630:

The heal sig is a typo. The numbers are correct but it should say per second. Yes, that is correct, 392 health per second.

I’m glad you guys held off on the previous -5 seconds to all healing cooldowns change. Honestly, those felt a little “knee jerk” to me. These changes appear to be much more solid.

Defektive.7283:

Veritas.6071:

Defektive.7283:

Ok so I’ll break down the healing changes.

Healing Signet:
Healing Power is now more useful with healing signet, before hand it didn’t increase the amount healed enough to be useful.

Healing Surge:
They changed the values to bring it more in line with a Warriors health pool. thats why the base healing as increased so much. Then they also tied in +healing to be more affective.

Mending:
Small increase in health earned, +1 condition removed.
20sec cd
(personally, still won’t be taking this, just yet).

Healing Signet, pre-patch, healed for 200/second without healing power. Now with 1500 healing power, 155.6/second. The active scales at about .5 which makes it the worst scaling active we have, and therefore, poor in a heavy healing power build.

I think you misread the Mending notes: Mending: Reduced the recharge to 20 seconds. Decreased the base heal by 6%. Scaling with healing power has been decreased by 20%. This skill now removes 3 conditions.

Ok then Mending is useless now.

And I believe the Signet tooltip may be wrong then. Will confirm in-game.

Well the on the plus side for Mending, because it had it’s cooldown reduced by 20% and it’s base heal decreased by only 6%, it works out to be a small buff. It will heal, if used on cooldown, a tad better than it used to, but heavy healing power builds will see no significant change, as it’s coefficient was reduced by 20%.

Defektive.7283:

Ok so I’ll break down the healing changes.

Healing Signet:
Healing Power is now more useful with healing signet, before hand it didn’t increase the amount healed enough to be useful.

Healing Surge:
They changed the values to bring it more in line with a Warriors health pool. thats why the base healing as increased so much. Then they also tied in +healing to be more affective.

Mending:
Small increase in health earned, +1 condition removed.
20sec cd
(personally, still won’t be taking this, just yet).

Healing Signet, pre-patch, healed for 200/second without healing power. Now with 1500 healing power, 155.6/second. The active scales at about .5 which makes it the worst scaling active we have, and therefore, poor in a heavy healing power build.

Sure. Try throwing a build together on a build site and posting it for critique. That’s the best way to get some help. Sword is a pretty well rounded weapon, so you have lots of options available in both power and condi configurations.

I totally agree with you that the warrior’s tools overall are not up to par with other classes. Recently, I started looking at our skill coefficients and attack speeds in relation to other classes, and I found our sustained damage on most weapons is not much, if any, better than our competition. That in itself is not a huge deal, but when you also take into account that our big damage typically requires some sort of CC setup along with the comparatively low number of options we have for mitigating or avoiding sustained damage, we end up with a class that isn’t terribly threatening in melee without pretty specialized builds, and if we bring a more well balanced build, we lose in one area or another which indirectly reduces the effectiveness of our other tools. If we give CC, our big damage(our advantage) becomes much harder to land. If we give up damage we reduce the threat of our presence. If we give up defense, we go down extremely easily. If we sacrifice condi removal, we risk being totally neutralized.

Other classes enjoy one or more of the following: higher sustained damage, higher healing, higher mobility, great options for disengaging, or tremendous damage mitigation and avoidance. But what do they sacrifice? Some of them don’t have the same capabilities at bursting, and most of them can’t CC as well, but none of them completely lose the ability to disengage or sustain.

Honestly, I’m fine with our burst being a little tricky to land and us having limited options to disengage, but if that is the hand we’re going to be dealt, we need the ability to, as J Sharp said, “stick in the pocket”. Right now, a warrior can’t compete as a bunker which leaves us to try filling different roles at dpsing or team support. As far as DPS, the ability for other classes to land those heavy hits and stay mobile in combat while maintaining escape options makes them extremely viable in a PvP environment. For team support, our CC is fantastic, but it’s just a small part of the game. I wouldn’t want warriors to be confined to that one specific role. We also bring some solid offensive support options, but they’ve been in place since release (although banners saw a change) and those support skills have not proven to be so profound that a competitive team felt the need to integrate us into their comp.

If we could just get that ability to stay in the pocket, I think we would be good. We don’t need to be Guardian status, but with our mobility, CC, and damage, if we could just get a little more love for staying on our feet, I could see the addition of warriors filling the role of putting pressure on key targets or forcing peels better than almost any other class.

Olba.5376:

Honestly, for a team setting, I don’t see much point in running Vigorous Shouts over Inspiring Battle Standard. Considering that the healing is barely over 1k with no Healing Power, the banners would provide more for the team due to their native effects.

And personally, I am a major fan of Warhorn. The only downside as a team cleansing tool is that unlike shouts, it has an animation. But depending on what you’re doing, that won’t matter.

I agree with Olba on this one. Again, there are better classes for healing. If you absolutely want to heal, banner CD and banner heal would give you all the healing of your shouts plus a sizable damage boost to your party through discipline or strength banner. Plus, you could still keep FGJ and whatever else you want. But as far as condi removal in PvE, I’m still a fan bringing a more well suited class or every man for himself.

You could try putting in Empower Allies instead of Stronger Bow Strings. That would fit well with your party support role as well as boost your own damage.

You could also take Empowered instead of Lung Capacity if you wanted to be a little more selfish.

Also, I hate to say this, but you’re pretty much filling the role of a Guardian. Does no one else in your group run any support? Almost any other class can do condi removal more efficiently than soldier runes, and you could use those slots for better runes(DPS or group support)… especially in PvE where condis usually aren’t a huge issue.

XII.9401:

@ Veritas

If you don’t compare your class with the other classes then you will never get it fixed. Ppl should know what the other classes are capable of and what they are actually getting in comparison.

Literally everything we do can be done with another class much better.

Many of our single abilities are inferior to other classes.

Our shield vs. engy shield+toolkit

our evis vs. heart seeker

etc etc

We gave up a long time ago on fixing the class so now we want to be on equal footing at least to some of the other classes in their abilities.

I don’t disagree with comparing classes overall, only individual skills. Many of the other classes could look at one particular thing the warrior is capable of and complain theirs is weaker than ours, and they would be right, but like I said, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and, with equal skill, our whole tends to struggle more than some others. Sure, some skills need to be brought more in line with one another or changes need to be made elsewhere to compensate, but there is a lot more to it than isolating two skills and saying, “Okay, Eviscerate now has a 450 leap, no cooldown, and only uses one adrenaline bar at a time to compete with Heartseeker.” or “Okay, Rapid Fire needs to have it’s channel time shortened by 2 seconds to be on par with Volley.” As we can see, that kind of balance is a double edged sword.

Additionally, as you can see, insane damage isn’t exclusive to the warrior.

Eviscerate is both strong and weak. When it crits in the right build, it’s devastating. When it doesn’t, you were probably better off not even using it. It’s an unreliable burst skill without some method of ensuring it crits… Blame it on crit damage.

runeblade.7514:

Olba.5376:

I don’t think that’s going to happen.

Currently, the coefficient for a full 100 blades is 5.5. On the other hand, Whirling Axe is a 3.0. Double that and it becomes the next 100 Blades. Not a good idea, especially considering the easy access to Eviscerate or Final Thrust, which are both very damaging skills in their own right.

Also, in PvP, it currently has a coefficient of 4.5. Double that and it’ll be 9.0.

Honestly, I think it would make Sword/Axe deal a bit too much damage.

Offhand sword’s purpose is to do bleeding damage.
Offhand mace’s purpose is to control.
Offhand axe’s purpose is to do damage.

Except offhand axe’s damage is just weak.

Offhand axe’s purpose is to build Adrenaline and grant Fury.

Also, offhand sword offers, by far, the most practical damage of any offhand we have, even in power builds. It just so happens that it also functions well in a condi build, just like main hand sword.

The action of the devs buffing it in sPvP and not PvE is a pretty good indicator they won’t be adding any crazy mechanics that increase damage.

If anything, the offhand axe needs added utility. Warriors aren’t so starving for Fury or Adrenaline that they’ll give up the damage, defense, or CC provided by other offhands.

@Jzaku

I hesitate to compare other classes’ skills directly to our own because the whole is usually greater than the sum of its parts. For everything the other classes bring, the warrior can bring some nifty trick. It’s just that, currently, their parts seem to easily counter many of ours. The parts of the warrior, CC, heavy burst, high base armor and health values sound great on paper, but when they meet stealth, high mobility, plentiful damage avoidance, solid heals, and protection in the digital arena, often times we find ourselves being picked apart. Which begins to circle back to our lack of flexibility and needing to bring so many tools to accomplish a relatively simple task such as landing your big damage or dealing with condis. Many of the things I mentioned, we can deal with, but doing so requires very specific builds that don’t leave the player with many options, and smart opponents adjust accordingly to avoid your strength. At the same time, a more well rounded warrior, historically, hasn’t stood up as well in tournament play because they lack one or more of the tools needed to fully take advantage of all of their parts, so you ended up with a heavily armored 18k health pool of mediocrity.

I do agree with you that our version of combating boons is pretty lack luster. The primary issue I see is that if you run into someone running lots of boons without Prot, you are probably going to wreck them quick, fast, and in a hurry, but if your target brings Prot, they are still mitigating more damage than our Master trait gives, and that holds true even if they run every boon in the book. So do you buff the damage and drive the poor non-Prots deeper into the dirt? or do you leave it in its current state of being not terrible, but not as effective as we’d hoped? Meanwhile, other classes are completely removing, converting, or even stealing boons. Stein, I know you said you are looking more for perspectives than ideas, but I’ve been chatting with another warrior about this very issue, and I’d be glad to share what we’ve discussed with you.

As far as the new blind, I think the issue is being compounded by… again, our lack of flexibility. Most of the tournament builds I’ve seen rely on one melee weapon set to fill damage, mobility, or control and the other melee set to fill whichever of those roles are lacking with the first. The weapons have to work in tandem for us to do what we do best, big damage. The longbow has some amount of control but most times, players find it more advantageous to bring a GS or sword for staying in melee range and dpsing targets of opportunity. We are constantly striving to be in melee range and don’t have the ability to reliably remove blinds before we arrive there. I think if we didn’t have to use one set to prep the other, we’d be able to bring more versatile warriors to the fight. Utility skills are also capable of filling playstyle gaps to open up space for a ranged weapon, but a stun break is pretty much required so for our first choice, we only get to choose from 6 of our 20 skills, and in reality only have two utility slots that we can use to enhance our chosen style, but we still have to deal with condis, team support, defense, and CC or mobility if those are still missing… just to name a few…

I’ll grant that many of these problems can be alleviated through team play, but I’m reminded of a match I saw of Team Paradigm when Moldran was running his 100b/Frenzy build. As soon as he stepped into view, he got called out and everyone watched him because they knew what his job was… make his big damage unavoidable or relying on a teammate to help him CC. The moment his window of opportunity opened, if he wasn’t dead, he got countered. That is much harder to accomplish that against other classes so why not bring them instead?

I know I keep harping on flexibility, but I think that is killing us right now. I won’t go into specifics on the weapons, but our mobile weapons aren’t thrashing anyone without them being CCed, and our damaging weapons are less mobile. On top of that, because, in the past, we had the capability of being terrifyingly offensive, we weren’t built with mountains of sustain. So we kinda don’t really do anything. We can’t competitively bunker, we can’t bring our massive damage to bear without CC… which can still be countered, and our offensive support isn’t so monumental that it can’t be gone without or brought, to some degree, by a different class.

STEIN.8409:

Hey guys, just wanted to tip my hat for an awesome read so far. Keep the info coming please.

I’d also like to thank you for bring up the or/and topic. Even though I have a topic about conflicting “warrior traits”, this topic is exactly the way warrior traits in general could be compared to other “profession’s traits”. I’ll definitely be doing some research and comparisons about this.

Don’t worry I’ll give credit where credit is do. Thank you.

I know with time constraints, we weren’t able to hear everything you plan on addressing. Is there anything in particular you’d like the community to give their opinion on?

Olba.5376:

Veritas.6071:

It’s relevant because it invalidates your comparison, and if you know direct damage scales better than condi damage, then why argue that flurry’s damage can keep pace with eviscerate if, in most builds, that isn’t true?

Because the problem isn’t that Eviscerate is somehow overpowered and Flurry is weak. It’s that condition damage is weaker than direct damage.

On top of that, you don’t even know how much power or condition damage was used to generate those numbers.

The answer is bare minimum, as per the formatting standard set on the wiki.

And it’s not like I do not possess the mathematical know-how to reverse the in-game tooltips to manually calculate the skill coefficients off of my own warrior.

Just because you haven’t bothered to find out how they write the wiki doesn’t mean it’s all an unknown blur. Or that you would need the wiki in the first place.

And let’s be honest for a moment: Swords do not need a burst that is capable of Eviscerate-level direct damage, as both Eviscerate and Final Thrust have a 3.0 coefficient.

As long as we both agree this:

“As far as I can count, it looks like Flurry already has superior damage.”

is not true, I think we’ve come to an agreement.

My personal opinion is that when people complain about the lower damage of Flurry, they are omitting the 2-4 second immobilize. That combined with some direct damage and a hefty dose of short duration bleeding creates a pretty well rounded skill.

I’d like to apologize if I came across as too much of a jerk. It wasn’t my intent to imply you are incapable of reversing the math in GW2. In fact, I was confident that you can. I just felt the way you presented the argument could be misleading to more casual readers so I pointed it out and then defended my position.

Olba.5376:

Veritas.6071:

There is no “base damage”. Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Skill coefficients are how they control the damage of individual skills.

True in practice, but that’s a rather irrelevant point.

After all, there are minimum values to power and armor, not to mention relevancy criteria for the weapon damage. For example, pretty much all skill editors won’t even have the option to use a rare weapon. Similarly, there’s not much point considering armor values below 1836, since that’s the minimum possible value of someone with full exotic armor.

Though in my case, I was simply referring to the standardized values that I picked from the wiki. And I was simply bringing up the point that the skills themselves have similar damage, it’s just that direct damage scales much better than condition damage.

It’s relevant because it invalidates your comparison, and if you know direct damage scales better than condi damage, then why argue that flurry’s damage can keep pace with eviscerate if, in most builds, that isn’t true?

On top of that, you don’t even know how much power or condition damage was used to generate those numbers.

I’ll say again, there is no “standardized value”. The closet thing to that would be skill damage at 916 power which no one is interested in knowing because, as far as relevancy goes, that number is completely useless. You want skill coefficients and condi scales which can then be applied to your build. Pulling numbers from the wiki without full knowledge of how they were generated and using them to make unsupported claims does nothing for anyone except propagate misinformation.

Final line: “Flurry is trash. DPS loss, no matter what you’re wearing, and it roots you, and you lose any adrenaline-related trait bonuses. wtf.”

Unfortunately, since I found this article, his photos of Flurry have been unhosted, but you can recreate his findings in the spreadsheet if you don’t believe him.

Olba.5376:

Eviscerate has a base damage of 672/840/1008 depending on Adrenaline. Flurry has a base melee damage of 256, along with a base of 680/850/1,020 damage. As far as I can count, it looks like Flurry already has superior damage.

There is no “base damage”. Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Skill coefficients are how they control the damage of individual skills.

King Chaos.2810:

I have seen shout builds all over and thought why is everyone ignoring stances. Then I tried to make a stance build and found out why.

In their current forms stances are not viable. they last for a short time and have a long cool down so while a warrior might benefit from a stance will probably try to take advantage from other traits or skills before ending up having to use a stance

Should stances play a significant role in warriors like shouts do or they are just situational modifications to builds?

I think stances should be of equal power to shouts and play a bigger role like in GW1.

There are many ways to buff up the stances to make them more relevant:
More traits to buff the stance maybe reduce cool down by a percentage
Trait that gives another benefit to stances like shouts give adrenaline
Change the way stances work (weaker version) to be toggle type and one of them is active at a time like the elemental attainments

and I think traits that traits that use stances like last stand cool down should be reduced to match the skill itself

I think it’s just your style. I see plenty of videos where warriors run stances, and I run two. In fact, I won’t touch shouts because of how single purpose they are. The only two I would ever consider running are Fear Me and SIO, but there are still better options in my opinion. I’ll emphasize it’s my opinion, my style… everyone’s is different.

But ya, the cooldowns are still a little painful. Especially when you consider, as previously mentioned, the changes to Berserkers Stance making it much harder to achieve good vigor uptime.

Jzaku.9765:

Veritas.6071:

Other classes have traits that allow players to sit on their mechanic. Mesmers, Necros, Engineers, Thieves, Rangers, Ele to a lesser degree. They are there to provide lower skill caps, but they can still be worked into builds used by skilled players. The offer an additional facet to gameplay.

I don’t adrenaline sit all the time, but holding your adrenaline can be very advantageous. In the case of the warrior, not only for increase damage and healing but also for applying heavy damage or CC at the right time. Having the traits support both styles benefits everyone. How it is right now only benefits sitters, which I don’t agree with. Changing it to supporting only spammers is no better because the class as a whole doesn’t gain another dynamic… it just moves sideways. So my question would be, if our traits supported both styles equally, why is there an argument against that?

That is a valid point, should they make our traits benefit both ends of the adrenaline bar that would be excellent. I just have this horrible sinking feeling that whenever it comes to Warrior design we get "OR"s when other classes get "AND"s, if you know what I mean.

Again, I don’t disagree with you. I think it has to do with “OR”/“And” as well as the safest call. We are starting to see some warriors make it into tournament play and “viable?!” threads pop up. That’s a positive change. I’ve seen studios make sweeping changes to class mechanics in the past and, unfortunately, it sometimes spells disaster. I think the fact that we are starting to see favorable responses to the changes will encourage Anet to continue making small adjustments. However, J Sharp mentioned in the SotG that he wants to open up another playstyle for the Guardian that revolves around punishing their attackers through counter play, so they are definitely going to keep expanding the class capabilities. For that reason, I’ll always ask for steak (but balanced steak), and if I get ground beef, I get ground beef.

Great examples of how I’d like to see adrenaline usage treated:
Supreme Justic
Absolute Resolution
Indomitable Courage

Jzaku.9765:

I’m really sorry to dash your hopes but during the SotG all the developers could say about Warrior changes were along the lines of “we’re looking at increasing their base HP only in PvP, and see how that works out” and “Warriors were really strong in the Beta Weekend events and we want to make sure we take it slow with their changes so as not to make them ‘unstoppable beasts’.”

Anyway back on topic I’m just going to quote myself regarding this week’s A.R.:

I definitely agree with encouraging Warriors to use their Burst Skills. Some people might argue that sitting on your adrenaline is a “play style” they enjoy, but really, it’s your class mechanic, why aren’t you using it? I feel that really the only reason this is a “Play Style” is because the GS’s burst skill is terrible, and people love them some GS.

More benefits from being able to land your burst skill such as healing (Adrenal Health rework) and having mechanics that help us land said Burst skill would go a long way towards equalizing the dynamism of Warriors with other classes.

Other classes have traits that allow players to sit on their mechanic. Mesmers, Necros, Engineers, Thieves, Rangers, Ele to a lesser degree. They are there to provide lower skill caps, but they can still be worked into builds used by skilled players. They offer an additional facet to gameplay.

I don’t adrenaline sit all the time, but holding your adrenaline can be very advantageous. In the case of the warrior, not only for increased damage and healing but also for applying heavy damage or CC at the right time. Having the traits support both styles benefits everyone. How it is right now only benefits sitters, which I don’t agree with. Changing it to supporting only spammers is no better because the class as a whole doesn’t gain another dynamic… it just moves sideways. So my question would be, if our traits supported both styles equally, why is there an argument against that?

I do agree with you on weapon trait compression. I think our vast weapon choices are actually a curse. Other classes have very versatile weapons. Ours are much more thematic and provide very little versatility. That leaves us with setting up our big damage with one weapon set then swapping to another at the cost of bringing a ranged weapon or relying on utilities that are already at a premium because of stun breakers, burst avoidance, condi management, and stability being all but required. This same concept can be seen in our CD reducing weapon traits that contribute very little to the entire build.

I thought the Adrenal Health suggestion was a little off. The community has already complained a lot about how Cleansing Ire needs to land in order to cleanse, and now we are going to ask the devs to change Adrenal Health to function the same way?

I think having it be, “Heal for X health per bar of adrenaline gained. At full adrenaline, regenerate health.” would be stronger and make it work for Adrenaline sitters and Burst spammers alike.

I’m also going to say I didn’t agree with changing Heightened Focus and Berserker’s Power to only be post-burst bonuses. Just because someone likes to sit on their adrenaline and you don’t, doesn’t mean those traits need to change and that playstyle needs to disappear. It means adrenaline oriented traits need to function equally well in either type of build; especially when they are Grandmaster level. The suggestion I would make off the top of my head would be to have those bonuses linger. There are a couple of ways you could do that:

1) Gain 10% crit/dmg(respectively) for 2/3/5 seconds for each bar of adrenaline spent.

2) For each bar of adrenaline spent, gain 5/10/15% crit/damage(respectively) for 5 seconds.

Note that one of these would be an addition to Heightened Focus and Berserker’s Power, not replace them entirely.

Those numbers may be a little strong, but I believe the concept is sound. I dialed down the % in the first example because having 15% linger for up to 5 seconds in an adrenaline gaining build could be too strong. 30 in arms and 30 in discipline would make it possible to have nearly 100% uptime on the bonus while simultaneously spaming bursts. But then again, maybe a hefty investment of 60 points to achieve a playstyle like that isn’t necessarily way out of balance.

6 runes of the Scholar have been found to be the DPS king above 90% health. Below 90%, Ruby Orbs, but I suggest doing the math for your build. There usually isn’t one best answer for every build.

I only ever found it incredibly useful against dd serker thieves and shatter mesmers, but a short immunity to direct damage coupled with SoF and MH Axe spelled doom for many a squishies.

I’d definitely say it’s good, but it certainly isn’t a “must have”.

Sure. Good luck!

You won’t mitigate enough damage for your heals to outpace incoming damage. If you wan’t to mitigate tons of damage, you should look into getting runes that provide Protection or pick a different class. For solo WvW, go with the power.

That’s totally dictated by playstyle. Healing Signet isn’t as bad as lots of players make it sound. Healing Surge is by far our weakest heal if you get forced to use it with low adrenaline, and getting the most out of it requires some forethought. Meanwhile Mending and Healing Signet are safe, reliable heals, but they don’t bring the flexibility of adrenaline control.

I would go with Dogged March.

So are you asking another question?

Dilios.8739:

with banner and defense signet i can get up to 3800 armor

Okay =)

Go with the power.

You asked how much armor mitigates 50% damage.

2127 is our base armor value. To mitigate 50% of damage when compared to base heavy armor, you need 4254 armor.

Divide 180 by your current power ((180/X) * 100). If that number is over 5.55, go with the Power. If it is under 5.55, go with the Toughness.

4254 armor will reduce incoming damage by 50% when compared to 2127.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Some-numbers-follow-up-much-appreciated

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Autoattack-DPS-a-comparison

Ah yes, I see that now. I didn’t scroll all the way down. So we know we have some kind of bug haha… I can believe they don’t want immobilize to stack, which is fine, but that makes leg specialist in some situations a self sabotaging trait. The difference isn’t so extreme between Throw Bolas and Pin Down, but when you are dropping a 3-5 second Immobilize down to 1.X seconds, that’s a significant loss. I think a system where, if the remaining duration exceeds the incoming duration, the effect is ignored, and if the incoming duration exceeds the remaining duration, the remaining duration is overwritten, would be much better.

Ya, I’d love to be able to point to a tooltip and say, “Hey look! A bug!”

Try again and mouse over the condition. Even the in-game tooltip says it stacks in duration.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize Wiki claims it stacks in duration. Obviously the wiki is not 100% accurate, but it seems counter-intuitive to have a weapon capable of negating large portions of your own CC.