Guild Wars 2

Bear on the job.6273:

I don’t know how you can generate these curves or values without using a base Power rating for your opponent. Check here for the way damage is calculated:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

If you pull out the Power and Armor values, you can see the direct reduction is effectively (Power/Armor). So your armor value is completely relative to the enemy you are facing. If you can surpass their power rating, you can significantly reduce their damage.

Unless I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying:

123456/2127=58.0423
123456/2227=55.4360

55.4360/58.0423=95.5 agrees with the second chart.
————

456789/2127=214.7574
456789/3527=129.5120

129.5120/214.7574=60.3 agrees with the second chart.
————

2727/2727=1.0000
2727/2827=0.9646

.9646/1=.9646
75.23/77.99=.9646 a different scenario, but we see the calculated mitigations are the same percentages of one another; agrees with the second chart.
————

The math seems to be working.

And as far as damage reduction being Power/Armor, I don’t see how you arrive at that conclusion. You are totally ignoring 2 other numbers in the equation that drastically alter damage done; which is then divided by armor, not simply Power/Armor. If that was the case, you could reduce incoming damage to below 1.

Try eating a Mango Pie. 44c last I checked. If that isn’t enough, then I’d start thinking about adjusting your build.

Also, if you are running 2 melee sets without someone in the group speced to provide some heals, things can get hairy. Maybe try bringing something ranged.

I run full serker with 15 in Defense and mango pie. The only time I have trouble staying alive is when the rest of my group is dead.

Even in a high toughness build, 10% toughness doesn’t amount to much. If you geared/traited for an additional 1000 toughness, you’d gain 191 or 192. That would bump you from 3127 armor to basically 3327 for a whopping 4% increase in mitigation. Or roughly 3.5% for a 2427 build(minimum Armor when obtaining that trait).

However, I like the idea and would love to see the devs go in a direction that allows us to greatly increase our toughness in an active style: Shameless plug

Here, I just went ahead and did the math.

I should clarify, the Y-axis(vertical) is damage taken. The X-axis is armor stat.

100 – damage taken at a given armor will = % damage mitigation increase in relation to 2127 armor.

Fenrir.5493:

Armor in this game got nerfed in one point of the game, i saw this video of warrior in beta and it shows clearly that the warrior damage mitigation was better then, now armor its balanced aroud classes that dont have high armor like the OP thieves making the class that depends more on armor useless, wich is the class with no evades/escapes ways of mitigate damage.

Right, so let’s check the math.

So if 2100 serves as our 0, damage of 210000 will give us an easy to use 100 damage taken.

210000/2500 = 84 damage taken. 16% more damage mitigated than at 2100. The chart shows it should have been around 13.6%.

210000/3000 = 70 damage taken. 30% more damage mitigated than at 2100. The chart shows it should be around 25.6%.

210000/3500 = 60 damage taken. 40% more damage mitigated than at 2100. The chart shows it should be around 34.25.

Not precisely on the dot as mentioned before, but it serves as a decent guideline.

We see from these numbers that around 2500 armor, 100 points of toughness will still yield ~75% of the same investment from 2127 to ~2200. So, for glassy characters, 400 points of toughness can net you nearly double the mitigation of a 2127 Armor build without suffering much from diminishing returns.

Beyond that, higher Armor characters see pretty much the same mitigation returns from investment between 2700 and 2800 Armor. So, pushing to 2800 armor from 2700 for tankier builds is definitely an option. The same thing can be seen at 3000 to 3100.

However, it is important to note at the 3100 mark, you are receiving ~50-75% return on your investment when compared to a builds between 2127 and 2500 Armor armor respectively.

2100 : 13.7% mitigation
2200 : +3.9%
2300 : +3.5
2400 : +3.2
2500 : +3.0
2600 : +2.8
2700 : +2.5
2800 : +2.5
2900 : +2.2
3000 : +2.0
3100 : +2.0
3200 : +1.81
3300 : +1.71
3400 : +1.61
3500 : +1.52

It’s common knowledge that high Armor characters see diminishing returns as they continue to invest. However, I haven’t seen anyone mention accurate values lately. So, in my search, I stumbled across this thread in the Guardian forums. The image provied by Brutaly.6257 is geared for Guardians, but I extracted his data relating to Armor and Mitigation % and graphed it below for easy use. The values are obviously not extremely precise, but they’re better than anything I’ve seen lately, and the graph should provide some players with a visual aid and better insight into how the stat scales.

This was pulled off the wiki.

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. The condition is removed independent of the intensity, so 3 stacks and 25 stacks of bleeding are equivalent when considering condition removal.”

You can find it towards the end of the first paragraph.

The last few posts in this thread are also decent reads if you’re interested.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/PvE-DPS-Warrior-Build/first#post2343138

aeneq.1760:

Actually the OP just mentioned a might stacking build, in which case 30/25 is the way to go. However he was also asking about 30/10 which isnt a stacking build.

I hadnt actually tried 30/0/0/10/30 before I wrote the earlier posts, I was using a 30/25 and was just about to do some gearing around that and I agree the might stacks are nice when they hit for sure!

I however decided to try the 30/0/0/10/30 today and I am getting 4.1k atk with 86% crit (thats without banner of discipline and instead using Strength with a crit dmg of 91%)

I also am running 2xRuby orbs, 2xMonk, 2xWater and with 10% in traits and 20% from food buff I keep fury, might and swiftness exactly 100% uptime (well 1sec glitch due to animation). This made it possible to free up FGJ and replace it with whatever I desire (since fury is 100% anyway).

So with this change I def. feel I got more consistent dps, and two really good group bonuses with some sweet retraits if I desire. I might not get 25 stack on mobs solo (which only happened with multiple mobs, 14 stacks are more consistent) and instead get 5 stacks but gained Strength banner which equals ~4.8 (with 26 sec downtime so lets say 4 stacks).

Im actually quite happy with it, im gonna run it a while and see how it works out for me. Just need to get me some Monk runes for the toughness gear.

Sounds like a sweet setup. I’ve been toying with dropping 4 orbs to gain the dps stability of better boon duration. Glad to hear it works in application as well as theory.

I’ve run full serkers and rampagers with sword. I preferred serkers. You don’t have to worry about competing with other players for the bleed cap, and you’ll get better returns from your high crit damage and % damage traits. I liked the rampager’s too, but serkers was absolutely nasty with that high crit chance, power and crit damage.

aeneq.1760:

Yeah well theres a lot of stuff in that build I dont like

• Its actually 88% WITH Fury which isnt 100% uptime
• Its also with ascended gear
• Crit sigils
• Banners are kitten on a 120cd so +precision is actually around 40 with +2.5% crit dmg
• You usually only have 2 sigils on non cd so thats 80 prec but lets say 100 which is around 5%
• The thread you linked didnt discuss 30/0/0/10/30 which should provide better benefits than the 5% crit chance you can get from the 30/10/0/0/30

That said you can compensate precision with some food buffs but that linked build in itself should be taken with some perspective. Whereas 30/0/0/10/30 is static buffs that are active the whole time and is not conflicting with other might buffs in grouping and provides some versatility for retraiting when needed.

As far as fury, you’re right it isn’t 100% uptime, but FGJ and SoR together are going to give you 38 sec. FGJ will be back off CD before fury runs out which will almost bridge the gap to SoR CD. You’ll end up with 46 sec uptime out of 48 on a fresh rotation.

I agree that the 30/10 build will provide more group dps, but from the math done, outside of a team setting, if it even edges out the 30/25 it won’t be by much (because of Attack of Opportunity, not because of might stacking). If you are going to run Empowered or Empower Allies, the math is really easy to figure out.

It’s a splice between two builds so it’s far from perfect and not something I would run, but the OP asked about a Might stacking crit build. I think you might be dogging it pretty hard. All personal preference I suppose.

The math in this thread is solid. You should give it a read.

Here is a build that merges really high crit chance with the might stacking GS. http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-s;4NKkN0P4RL-60;9;4TO;0E-8A09;55;04-F05;9n-FW0-LWZ;1Vp-wWz12Z8_E52308-2H;1N1-a;9;9;9;7kkkkkk;57q

When you factor in the 4% crit from Healing Signet and Signet of Fury (the site doesn’t) and the Banner of Discipline is down, you’ll be right around 100% crit chance.

Thanks for reposting. Nothing really jumps out at me as a huge negative. The biggest suggestion I would make is take a look at Cleansing Ire for your Defense Master Major. That will give you the ability to drop condis if needed, and it will also help you regen your adrenaline faster after you eviscerate, but that’s just a suggestion… nothing wrong with Missile Deflection.

I’d love to comment but it’s impossible for me to access gw2skills. If you are interested and show your build with this site, I’ll glady comment.

Did you check the site? 38 to 51% in your build without having to trait for it is nothing? This isn’t a trait. It’s an addition to the class mechanic.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Veritas.6071:

Convert 25% of your Armor to Toughness

…But… Toughness adds to armor… They literally do the same thing… Is it because of Armored Attack converting 5% of your toughness into power? Cause that would be 5% of 25%… The end result would be incredibly meaningless. We have no other toughness-scaling trait or skill…

I am confused.

So let’s pretend you have 3000 armor like Daecollo. While the ability is active, you would have 3000×1.25= 3750 Armor. (3000 gear/trait armor and toughness + 750 toughness from the ability)

The ability basically reads, “Increase your Armor by 25%.” Having it convert to Toughness just sounds more “warrior-ish”

I also changed the skill wording. Now it is more clear:
Gain 25% of your Armor as Toughness

Daecollo.9578:

If I have 3k armor and 25% (barley 900) would give me about 275ish armor… which is about 2.3% damage reduction since I already have so much armor.

Its not worth it unless you are in full berserker’s armor. It would be an ‘ok’ Minor Trait I guess?

1 point toughness = 1 point armor

It would give you 750 armor. Which would take you from 38% to 51%.

The toughness curve makes it hard for me to make a formula, so I did all my experimenting with this site

The same guy wrote this article. He’s a very sharp dude.

With Anet’s recent decision to add Cleansing Ire, I saw an opportunity for some synergy with an idea I’ve had floating around in my head lately.

This would be an f2 skill that reads:

Mind over Matter

Gain 25% of your Armor as Toughness and lose 3 adrenaline every 1 seconds. You cannot gain adrenaline. Using Burst skills ends the effect.

I think the merits of this idea are:

-It burns adrenaline, giving us a way to utilize Cleansing Ire defensively, as well as another tool for managing our adrenaline pool.

-Although it isn’t as strong as Protection it has, at best, a 50% up-time and can’t be stripped.

The hole I see in this idea, and maybe someone can help me find a way around it, is that the way toughness scales, low toughness/hybrid builds will see a little more reduction because of the diminishing return per point of toughness. However, high toughness warriors should see total reductions around 60%, a very respectable amount, whereas full berserker builds will only be around 30%.

I know there are divides in the community when it comes to increased access to evades and protection. This could be an effective, unique method of mitigation as well as fit the warrior image of just being “tougher” than all the other classes.

I was always able to get the Longbow AA to hit even when the red bar was present. I just assumed it was because of the arrow drop-off animation whereas the rifle shots just disappear.

Lumn.2951:

So i’m wondering how effective cavalier gear is for hammer warriors in wvw with the following set up.

0
0
30 – II – X – IX
10 – I
30 – III – X – XI

Knight torso and leggings with berserker the rest. Berserker amulet and cavalier rest with berserker jewels. Weapon soldier’s maybe?

Spamming cleansing ire with earthshaker along with melandru runes and dogged march to help take care of conditions. Slightly low crit chance but i’m fine with that, there will be fury anyway. I’m a bit concerned that the hp is quite low in this. How might I best balance these stats?

Why run high crit damage if you acknowledge you have low crit chance? You’re just wasting your own stats.

I would take their advice with a grain of salt. If you like axes, try them, but also try everything else. You should really be finding what works for you. I’ve had great success with axe/shield and rifle in a berserker build which is something most people will tell you sucks, but it fits my style, and I’m careful to put myself in situations that play to my strengths. That’s one thing the GS has going for it, if you over commit, you just run. Axe doesn’t have that luxury, but I’d hardly call closing with rifle and finishing the fight with an 11-14k eviscerate unplayable in pvp.

As far as traits, I’d find a play style, weapons, and utilities; then refine from there. It’s a long but enjoyable process.

PM me if you have more questions.

I only included 2 of the 3 Signets. Healing Signet and Signet of Fury both have no reason to be used, so I would assert it is probably more viable than you staying above 90% hp.

I’ve posted my build. You guys are more than welcome to continue dissecting it mathematically. If it makes everyone happy, I’ll even concede that it is #2… probably #3 on the dungeon DPS hierarchy.

I think something like this with the banner down would actually be better than both of our builds provided you can keep the target bleeding; which I think is feasible. It combines your GS might stacking with my crit chance.

Puandro also brings up a good point. I realize that when the banner is down, you’ve consumed crit food, or have a Ranger running Spotter, my precision is overkill. Therefore, 10 points in Tactics would be better DPS for the group(Empower Allies) or warrior(Desperate Power/Empowered).

I’ve learned a lot. Thanks guys.

So let’s say:

% Damage
1.1(1×2.5)=2.75

% Crit Damage
1(1×2.65)=2.65

I guess you’re right. Thanks for correcting me there. I really apologize for the misinformation. I know Protection reduction stays the same regardless of if you apply it to the white or post-crit damage. I was going off that concept… shoulda done the dang math.

Anyway, here is my build. I’m gunna use your power with my precision, % damage, and crit damage. I’m also including sigils.

2596
56% crit chance + 20% Fury + 15% HF + 4% DS + 5% sigil = 100%
119% crit damage
+10% damage Dual Wielding/Sigil

2596 x (1 + 1 × 1.69) x 1.1 = 7681

I wasn’t sure of all your Might sources so I left mine out above. I’ll add it in:

(2596 + 8 × 35) x (1 + 1 × 1.69) x 1.1 = 8510

But I realize that is my peak from SoR and FGJ, and I included sigils. I invite you to include sigils if you didn’t already.

Feel free to check my math. I’ve forgotten most of it over the years. =\
Build

All in all, I think both these builds are pretty competitive. Good discussion!

I can respond to your post when I get more time. How do you figure % damage is better at 100% crit chance?

10% Percent Damage:
1.1(1×1)=1.1

15% Crit Damage:
1(1×1.15)=1.15

So it actually looks like this in a full signet build:

250 precision, -20% CD on GS, ~15 stacks might and + 10% damage

vs.

615 precision(Deep Strike, Heightened Focus) and15% crit damage(15% damage at 100% crit)

575 is reality thought cause SoR will always be on cooldown

But for dungeons, if you take group support(banner of tactics and FGJ), they compare more similarly in Arms, but the 15% crit chance from Discipline still nets a ton of damage because of the extremely high crit modifier.

The reason 30/10/0/0/30 partial or full Signet build is the strongest is because you can get 100% crit chance in all berserkers (or knights, but then you already aren’t doing max dps). Once you hit 100% crit chance, 1% crit damage = 1% damage. So, you have nearly maximum power, and effectively, a 30% damage bonus from Discipline because you, literally, always crit. Neither Desperate Power nor Attack of Opportunity come close to equaling that damage bonus. However, if your group comp (Ex. Ranger running Spotter) or food (Master Maintenance Oil and Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash) allows you to achieve 100% crit without needing 10 in Arms for Deep Strike, 10 in Tactics would push your dps even further.

Faux.1937:

Ive been doing 30/10/0/0/30 and 30/0/0/10/30 it seems the 2nd one does less damage, but I make sure to do 20+ runs to get a good idea per trait line.

I would test in pvp but you dont get all the buffs/bonuses as you would with the mesmer and warrios give 25stack of might and the vul+banners.

Now I just need to know/figure out if a/a or a/m is better than GS. (besides eviscerate, that is just a great damage attack)

I edited my previous post for weapons.

The reason 30/10/0/0/30 partial or full Signet build is the strongest is because you can get 100% crit chance in all berserkers (or knights, but then you already aren’t doing max dps). Once you hit 100% crit chance, 1% crit damage = 1% damage. So, you have nearly maximum power, and effectively, a 30% damage bonus from Discipline because you, literally, always crit. Neither Desperate Power nor Attack of Opportunity come close to equaling that damage bonus. However, if your group comp (Ex. Ranger running Spotter) or food (Master Maintenance Oil and Bowl of Curry Butternut Squash) allows you to achieve 100% crit without needing 10 in Arms for Deep Strike, 10 in Tactics would push your dps even further.

As far as your weapon choice, Axe/Mace and GS, stacking Vulnerability with Axe 2/Mace 4 and alternating 100b and Axe auto-attack should give you the best dps, but if you ever have to leave melee, that changes pretty fast. I always ran Axe/Shield and Bow so that I could continue to DPS in the event that I got hit and had to back off.

Absolute highest personal DPS will come from GS/Axe,X all berserker gear and 30/10/0/0/30 signet build.
Strength: Berserker’s Power
Arms: Deep Strike
Discipline: Signet Mastery, Heightened Focus
Other traits depend on your weapon sets.
Healing Signet/Signet of Stamina, Signet of Fury, Signet of Might, Signet of Rage.
I’d run Axe,X/Bow or GS/Bow

For group play, I’d run Healing Signet/Signet of Fury, Banner of Discipline, FGJ

Do you have to have Physical Training?

If not, 10 from Strength to Tactics and Empower Allies gets you 150 power and 1k HP. 5 more from Strength to Defense gets you another 77 power and 50 toughness.

So…
Current:
200 power
~1080 HP (Great Fortitude)

Suggested:
~277 power (50 strength, 150 empower allies, ~77 armored attack)
1000 HP
50 toughness
and a touch of boon duration

Just a thought.

Damage from 10 in Strength with Dual Wielding:
(weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor) = Damage Done
1000*1106*.6/2600=255×1.05=267

Damage from 10 in Tactics with Empower Allies
(weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor) = Damage Done
1000*1256*.6/2600=290

.6 was old sword AA 1 and 2 stage skill coefficient.

As you can see, you gain more damage from the Tactics tree with Empower Allies to both (not only dual wielding) weapon sets as well as another 1k vitality and some boon duration to help out your elite and FGJ. I realize you also lose 10% condition damage, but it would be worth testing if you actually lose any damage ticks… I assume you might lose 1 on the sword and a couple on pin down. Also note, on the skills like Final Thrust and Arching Arrow with larger skill coefficients, the difference in damage would be even more extreme.

Just something i thought I’d point out. I’m not sure if it’s a direction you’d want to go. Solid build IMO; if you want to run condi. Good luck.

Ya, I was lazy and just put 4. edited

Vuh.1328:

I don’t get whirling axe, feels like there is alot of t he hits that do nothing and is just there for animation sake?

It’s for building adrenaline, lots of small hits really fast.

I think if they changed the duration of the fury to 4 (maybe 5) with any hit and sped up the animation a tad, it would be nice.

As far as axe 5, I’m a fan of reflecting (or at least destroying) projectiles. Also, reduce the channel duration and hit count but keep the skill’s overall damage the same. This would leave us with a skill that has some defensive application and accelerated offensive capability in exchange for reduced adrenaline gain.

runeblade.7514:

Veritas.6071:

YuiRS.8129:

You guys actually want a sure-fire skill that removes 3 conditions every 7-10 seconds? Get real.

+1. There are builds that rely entirely on condition damage to kill. How would you guys like it if everyone ran around with 50% uptime on Endure Pain? Cleanses should never reliably outpace application.

How would you like it if you did 0 damage because the other players crippled and kited you to death.

Dude, I play a warrior.

But I struggle less against kiting because I always run with a ranged weapon.

YuiRS.8129:

You guys actually want a sure-fire skill that removes 3 conditions every 7-10 seconds? Get real.

+1. There are builds that rely entirely on condition damage to kill. How would you guys like it if everyone ran around with 50% uptime on Endure Pain? Cleanses should never reliably outpace application.

Ya, for group play, do what Brigg said. I’d run Healing Signet/Signet of Fury, Banner of Discipline, FGJ

No problem, good luck.

zTales.4392:

Veritas.6071:

I think your 10/0/20/20/20 is pretty solid. That will give you plenty of flexibility in what weapons you are running, and the tactics tree can help boost your roaming DPS through Empower Allies/Desperate Power. As far as your gear, because you will be lacking crit chance, I would run precision on every piece with exquisite rubies.

Mmhm, that was the plan! Knight’s/Berserker’s mix!

How much precision should I go for? 30%, 35%, 40% minimum?

I’d go as high as you possibly can. Your traits are pretty balanced and give you a little vitality. If it doesn’t have precision, stay away.

*Edit: But I’m biased cause I run nearly 100% glass lol. I found my best defense was doing so much damage people couldn’t be near me… that and ranged 2nd set.

Absolute highest DPS will come from GS/Axe,X all berserker gear and 30/10/0/0/30 signet build.

Strength: Berserker’s Power
Arms: Deep Strike
Discipline: Signet Mastery, Heightened Focus

Other traits depend on your weapon sets.

Healing Signet/Signet of Stamina, Signet of Fury, Signet of Might, Signet of Rage.

I’d run Axe,X/Bow or GS/Bow

I think your 10/0/20/20/20 is pretty solid. That will give you plenty of flexibility in what weapons you are running, and the tactics tree can help boost your roaming DPS through Empower Allies/Desperate Power. As far as your gear, because you will be lacking crit chance, I would run precision on every piece with exquisite rubies.

zTales.4392:

Veritas.6071:

Hey there again, zTales. Based off what you’ve said, I would recommend 15 in Defense. This will let you take Dogged March as your major and get you Adrenal Health which will give you regen based on adrenaline level which has good synergy with Berserker’s Power.

Before I say more, what utilities are you running?

It all depends on the situation. Mending, Stomp and Signet of Rage will always be there. Other utilities I’d use normally include: Kick, Banner of Defense, Balanced Stance, Fear Me, and Endure Pain. Now, I’m not sure if I should go 30 into Strength. Physical Training + Berserker’s Power is what made me choose it, but if I only have one physical utility, it may not be worth it. :I

Something like this or maybe something like this?

Stronger Bowstrings can be switched out for Empowered Allies when I’m not using the Longbow. Burning Arrows can be switched out for Desperate Power, Inspiring Banners, Quick Breathing, or Shrug It Off. (Inspiring Banners and/or Quick Breathing for yak escort/assisting allies, Shrug It Off for getting into towers, Desperate Power for defending camps.)

Alternatively, I could put those 10 points in Tactics into Defense instead and take Dogged March.
Help? xD

Lol. I can only see those builds if you use Into the Mists. I can’t access gw2skills… not even through a proxy. Sorry =(

Are you wanting to Adrenaline sit or no?

Hey there again, zTales. Based off what you’ve said, I would recommend 15 in Defense. This will let you take Dogged March as your major and get you Adrenal Health which will give you regen based on adrenaline level which has good synergy with Berserker’s Power.

Before I say more, what utilities are you running?

ProxyDamage.9826:

Veritas.6071:

We may as well not even have a class mechanic if you lost all your adrenaline. Sitting on adrenaline was popular before… what do you think your idea would do?

You want to exhaust your class mechanic on miss? roll a thief. They don’t have cooldowns and burn initiative on miss. We have cooldowns but hold adrenaline.

Thieve’s steal goes on full cooldown if it misses. Pretty much every other mechanic in the game goes on full cooldown if it misses.

You don’t want to waste your skill? Don’t miss. Remove the training wheels and you greatly improve the gameplay for everyone.

And deal with it, Cleansing Ire is pretty mandatory for any serious Warrior in PvP. Pretty much every class has one or two mandatory traits.

Initiative is part of the thief mechanic also and plays a larger role in how the class functions than Steal.

For the money and below 90% hp, Orbs are better. I vote orbs.

AndrewSX.3794:

Veritas.6071:

AndrewSX.3794:

Simple fix:
-Burst skills missing now depletes adrenaline (both for this trait and for some more meaningful bursting timing)

This would be a tremendous nerf to any build not running Cleansing Ire… and you are here flaming the devs for being short sighted…

You miss the burst, you’re punished for using at wrong time.

I’m surprised it isn’t already this way. Oh, forgot the dumbing down Anet policy.

We may as well not even have a class mechanic if you lost all your adrenaline. Sitting on adrenaline was popular before… what do you think your idea would do?

You want to exhaust your class mechanic on miss? roll a thief. They don’t have cooldowns and burn initiative on miss. We have cooldowns but hold adrenaline.

AndrewSX.3794:

Simple fix:
-Burst skills missing now depletes adrenaline (both for this trait and for some more meaningful bursting timing)

This would be a tremendous nerf to any build not running Cleansing Ire… and you are here flaming the devs for being short sighted…

The title of this thread made me remember this guy… because he just loves hotdogs and objects of similar shape and… well, sometimes, size.

Defektive.7283:

Veritas.6071:

So you’re saying Cleansing Ire made us tPvP viable? Because aside from that trait, this build was already capable of existing.

Yes and no.

Before this patch, going 20 pts into defense while running longbow didnt make sense, there were choices that were stronger overall (Berserkers Power for example).

No one had an incentive to try it or to use it because the numbers showed that going into a more damage focused build resulted in better results.

In steps the patch
—————-
Longbow base range increased to 1000 (this is pretty solid so far).
Cleansing ire proccing every 8 seconds (yay Longbow F1).
Movement of Shield Mastery to adept trait.

The bottom two points indicated that going into Defense in order to gain 290 toughness (when using a Shield + 200 from the trait line) as well as 3 condi removal every 8 seconds (more if you use sword F1) could be a profitable endeavor.

Once you commit to 20 points in defense you have only one direction you can go, build a little more toughness so that you have more staying power (hey, you’re investing 20pts into it already right?). In comes Dolyak Signet, Valk jewel.

My base toughness with shield sits around 1500.

---

So while yes the build had the potential to exist before hand, there was no reason to try it, thus it never occurred. New patch however opened up some possibilities.

Meaning the old warrior mindset has forcibly been removed. I think this build shows the problem didn’t just propagate from the slightly lacking class design. It was also a combination of team comp and a groupthink community. So shame on us because, although, yes, I agree the devs have created some new synergies, those things hardly took us from 0 to hero… if anything, from Shyla Labeouf(Transformers kid) to Matt Damon, and I’m a huge Bourne fan.