1. Population imbalance (scoring, comeback mechanics, etc)
2. Commander system
I’m on the back wall of the lords room in hills. The enemy builds 5 arrow carts outside of the lords room along the circular entry way outside the tunnel to the left. They can see neither the tunnel leading to lords room or the arrow carts that are back there.
Their arrow carts managed to hit every square inch of the lords room despite being outside and to the side with no possible LOS.
Eyefinity? Hack? Exploit? You tell me…
That sounds like a hack.
However, people are way too quick to cry AC exploit in most cases. I’ve seen map chat explode over siege being hit by ACs outside the gate of NW tower in the BLs, for example. I can’t believe at this point in the game that it isn’t common knowledge that you can target inside a tower that has a hole over the gate.
I suppose if the Mad King dungeon returns this year everyone will be shooting over every wall.
They haven’t sold 32 bit computer in a few years at stores, the problem is everyone in the market has a computer that is several years old. A shocking 40% of the world still runs Windows XP!
Games will not adapt until people replace their computers at home.
This is misleading because that statistic is mostly made up of businesses that refuse to upgrade, and not home users. And of those consumers still on XP, how many would actually buy a newer game like GW2? People who do not play hardcore games such as GW2 are not part of ANet’s market.
Take a look at the Steam survey to get a more accurate look at gaming pcs. Only 7% of people are using Windows XP, over 80% are using Vista, 7, or 8. Over 90% are DX10 capable. These are the people who actually buy and play games, i.e. the market.
I never claimed you had to finish the animation. You do, however, need to use supply while holding zero. Devon Carver confirmed as much—the only time Supply Mastery triggers is on the “last” tick.
It triggers on the last tick, i.e. the tick that brings your supply down to 0. I cancel the animation immediately after supply going to 0, not performing an extra tick while at 0, and mastery kicks in and gives me extra supply. This happened 3-4 times in the last 5 mins. Either it was fixed, he was wrong, or you misinterpreted what he said.
As you’ve noted, the 1 supply bug is extremely annoying though.
But it IS much harder to make and balance content that has to do with PvP actions, since if something is imbalanced or exploitable it would hurt the game and player way more than if something like that turns up in PvE.
Perfect balance & no exploits are an impossible pipe dream. The fact that the live WvW maps have had exploits is an undeniable fact.
(As a little sidenote, a big reason people don’t defend a lot IMO, is because defending is extremely boring if you are not being attacked)
Sentrying is both boring and unrewarding. Until this is rectified somehow, nothing will change. Just because the meta demands more of it for success, you can’t expect it to become commonplace.
Starting with catapult mastery, the meta has already shifted in this way.
Towers and keeps already greatly favour defence, even before that ridiculous AC patch (that still needs fixing btw) defence was easier than offence. Pummeling down doors can be a tactic too, it cannot be done easily in a well defended tower/keep. Even now you are only helpless if you are incredibly outmanned. If you have x number of people defending the tower you would need at least 40 people to take it. So I don’t think making it harder to take towers would be a good idea.
The problem isn’t that towers are too easy to take it is that they are too rarely defended. I find it hard to see how making towers harder to cap would encourage defending.
I would rather have a counterintuitive solution that might work.
Decrease health on all structures by half. Towers and keeps should be a lot easier to take. Now people can choose to abandon a tower because they’ll be back in time to stop the cap. A tower without any defenders should be very easy to take, so easy that no commander would ever contemplate leaving a tower without leaving a defending team. I understand that this idea could also backfire but I do believe the likelihood of succes is pretty good and it encourages small specialized squads and discourages zerging.
Maybe you can get back in time to defend a t3 tower. However, I have seen t3 structures, including keeps, taken before the server could respond. This includes when we’ve had scouts at a t3 garrison. If people are reluctant to sentry now, I don’t see how making things even easier to take is going to give people more incentive to do it.
I also disagree with the assertion that defense is greatly favored. Defense is generally favored, until you drain the defender’s supply, which is not that hard to do.
Expect more pvdooring and server stacking once they start rewarding winning servers.
I’m equally weary of this. Servers got stacked without discrete rewards for winners, this needs to be very carefully designed or it will just exacerbate the issue.
Jon Peters just chimed in on why they didn’t implement it in the first place and then stated his team would be making the appropriate changes in the future.
He didn’t say they would be making any changes in the future, it was more “if we changed the specific functionality in this specific way it would be time consuming and so it’s a low priority. Don’t expect this any time soon.”
People suggesting things that could be easily implemented (like 2h only sigils) in lieu of changing the weapon framework should be commended.
There is a reason why cata attacks on WC are common. Regardless, ACs in WC aren’t hard to take out. Langor is another matter because of its proximity to both the keep and the enemy spawn.
Again, I will say, ACs are not invincible. They do not have that much HP. Enemy supply is not unlimited. Eventually tower supply will drop to zero and it will be taken. Sieges are supposed to be battles of attrition, not one offs where you march up to a 700 supply tower and expect to take it on the first go, though that happens a lot too.
Its not really his WvW/player experience that make a commander good. Its his ability to lead and inspire his men, which has more to do with personality than anything else.
I would contend that you can’t effectively lead unless you have a good amount of WvW experience, which you can mostly pick up following good commanders/groups. Too many bad encounters will demoralize your server and people will leave the map.
Nerf ACs. They should be nerfed hard already. Sieging is a joke with ACs now.
The only joke is people who think they should be able to waltz up to every door and manmode it down.
If your commanders fail to take things because of enemy ACs, then they are bad. It is not that hard to destroy ACs, really it isn’t.
I have it maxed out. Helps a ton in dire situations. And when trying to flash build something.
I just wish they will fixed the 15 to 5 to 1 bug. So instead of two ticks to use 15 it requires three.
15 to 1 is not the only bug with build mastery. I just recently went from 5 to 1 to 0 when building burning oil, by myself.
The main problem with the original AC mastery line was that they had the range of catapults and could destroy siege before it could be built.
Now they feel closer to where they should be (while still killing people dumb enough to stand in the red circles) but not insta-destroying other siege.
They never had the range of catapults, people were just idiots and built catapults too close the majority of the time, instead of at max range.
It’s a bug. You have probably noticed that tower/keep NPCs can run through walls to attack enemies sometimes. I’ve seen either the quartermaster or siege merchant run through a wall at Ogrewatch in EB to attack us. I’ve also seen the Red Keep Lord run through the inner wall to attack us while we were at outer. This has also happened at the Green Keep.
Because he used the wrong term and he actually means WXP?
Why would you farm SM for WXP? 750 WXP every ten minutes?
Three procs of defending SM, nine minutes, will net you more WXP assuming you kill the attackers. You get more WXP from defense, since you don’t have to wait for Righteous Indignation, than you do for flip-flopping Stonemist.
Why would you farm SM for Karma? That makes even less sense. And if they are actually coordinating SM trading, they can just leave some mesmers inside.
Secondly, your argument is predicated on people being smart enough to be efficient. Like we all haven’t seen the capping/backcapping tower trains.
Supposedly racial elites aren’t supposed to outshine class elites. So why is it that Norns get snow leopard form with a ridiculous 1600 range dash, coupled with a 5 second stealth (on 10s cooldown)?
It is WAY farther than 1600 range.
Not only Rally, but the whole fact that you can revive in WvW makes it so any server no matter how much they lack on strategy, if they have numbers they will always win.
Its like 10 people could be able to kill 40 people in real life with strategy, however in this game it would be really difficult since they would just keep rallying or reviving each other.
Numbers pwns strategy most of the times, depending on how much that difference of numbers is of course. Which I dislike very much when I server have a huge somewhere in a distant continent population overnight take everything when you have 20 vs 100… what can you do? even if you have a great strategy, they would keep reviving each other until they get to where they want, just moving forward.
Agreed. Since the revive bar doesn’t decrease over time it is literally impossible to stop people from resing if there’s more of them than you because they just keep trying until they’re successful, which eventually they are. Not a fun mechanic.
Because he used the wrong term and he actually means WXP?
It would stop a lot of the map hopping zergs from instantly appearing in a keep, which is a good thing. As far as people killing themselves off cliffs, there aren’t suicide ledges that close in most cases, besides the home borderland.
I feel that the waypoint mechanic needs a lot of work.
a) 1 guy hitting a gate for 5 damage then running away shouldn’t deactivate waypoints. I would like to see this only happen if some significant damage occurs, such as a catapult hit.
b) waypoint uncontesting between defense events is a horrible mechanic that rewards last minute map hopping defenders and discourages good scouting and communication.
c) waypoint should be contested as long as the keep lord is in combat or dead.
aoe looting? extending the siege refresh timer?
-ken
Don’t forget that the siege timer was originally broken for most siege. So even the extended timer is worse than what we used to have.
Before 2013 goes, people will be able to have full ascended gear… what do you all think this means for the WvW community and Zerg warfare? I personally feel it could change the game quite a bit, a guild zerg of 15-20 people with full ascended pvt could be just as good as a zerg of 40+pugs wearing exotic gear of varying stats.
A good 20 man guild group can already beat 40 pugs.
Scale them as an anti-zerg measure. Also capping speed of objectives need to have a ceiling and not scale infinitely like it does now in camps/towers/keeps. Make it like taking control of a sentry point.
Maybe measures like this would help break up zergs, or at least slow down their WXP training.
Yup, they were map hopping.
And its dreadfully predictable, and several keeps are effectively “immune” to alpha golem rushing so long as you have scouts and inner cannons or door trebs
The problem really isn’t alphas, its the omega’s ranged attack and ability to hit walls. They can engage a keep from anywhere and can avoid anything made to counter them..
Before siege build mastery, it was pretty hard to build a treb behind a door yourself, and good luck getting people to help. They see you building a treb as an anti-golem weapon and look at you like you’re an idiot. Hell, I’ve been in fully supplied towers trying to build counter treb with 5+ people in the tower and maybe 1 person will help build.
Couple of superior ACs behind a gate are a very effective counter against 5 or so golems.
I don’t think 2 superior ACs will stop 5 golems + zerg PVDing.
Does it have minimum range and does it need LOS?
there’s a reason the reward for this is gone.
20 man groups would and did farm it for hours, regardless of what was going on in the map. you must be quite new to the game to not know it was around before.
I was under the impression that those rewards were removed because people were botting the escorts.
You are rewarded by having a tower/keep full of supply.
Which doesn’t feel very rewarding when you see it flipped due to coverage issues or no one sentrying it.
Here’s a thought. Why not make player worth less points/exp and towers worth less (much less) the more players that tag it. This will cut the zerg down and you will see more 5 man groups running around.
Anet has already discarded this idea because of the negative atmosphere it will create with groups telling pugs to f off.
Having everyone on the map run in a super zerg is not, and never will be, the most efficient way to WvW. Of course it works well if you outnumber your opponent.
2. I did not know this was possible, but I have long wished there were a way to take out those trebs. I don’t think its good that the dominant server (which usually owns SM) gets a free shot at 3 keeps b/c they have a treb that can’t be taken down unless a strong offensive is mounted on SM.
You can take them out without an AC, using other siege, from outside SM.
Supply is generally not scarce. You may not be able to instabuild 50 golems, but over the course of an hour it would be trivial to do so.
50 camp flips in an hour? Nearly 1 per minute?
Unless you plan on depleting all your keeps of supply, or unless your opposition is just gonna let you hold all the camps on every map, there is nothing trivial about 5000 supply in an hour.
I’m not saying its impossible, but it would take the effort of the entire server, an all maps. In which case, the limit. ie the thing that is hardest to get hold of, is still the supply, not the blueprints.
I’m assuming most people log in WvW with supply on them. If you don’t, then you should. But let me humor you. Breakout events, on multiple maps. If you’re lucky, you can run this twice, and each time Siegerazer gets to the tower that’s another 100 supply(if you own the tower and it’s upgraded I’m not sure if he still adds 100, or caps it). Keeps and towers brimming with capped supply from multiple maps. Supply camp trains around the entire map. It is not impossible, it is not even difficult.
People have already been doing this before (not with 50, that’s overkill anyway) siege was available on the TP. Getting outmanned every few mins with the enemy never attacking anything, then 10 golems show up out of nowhere. Yup, they were map hopping.
While I agree with the sentiment that this is WvW and if you don’t want to fight don’t come here, getting their rears handed to them by ‘griefers’ is in no way shape or form going to encourage anyone to stick around and play WvW. Just the opposite I think.
Well for one, they’re not griefers.
Spawn camping is griefing. The spawn area doesn’t even give you invulnerability. There was even a thread with a pic showing another server’s players on their spawn platform!
Standing on the platform does gives you the invulnerability buff. You’ll lose the buff once you stand on the very, very edge of the platform, or jump down.
Now you have nothing to complain about. Good luck.
You can be mesmer pulled with invulnerability? Because 2-3 weeks ago I was standing at the back of the platform near the portal and they pulled me.
Meanwhile, you can see how servers ranked several ranks below their competitors, ended up winning in the middle to low tiers, showing that the old system had effectively stranded servers in places where they didn’t belong.
Due to constant population shifts and server attendance I don’t think you can squarely pinpoint that as the reason.
Supply is generally not scarce. You may not be able to instabuild 50 golems, but over the course of an hour it would be trivial to do so.
I had it before they reset points and it wasn’t worth it, even with full condition build. The reason is that it is on a 60 second cooldown and the poison only lasts 2-3 seconds. REALLY bad for how much it costs. If it was burning then yeah, it would be worth it (but overpowered).
Doesn’t it last 16 seconds? It’s supposed to be 8 stacks of poison, 2 seconds each stack?
While I agree with the sentiment that this is WvW and if you don’t want to fight don’t come here, getting their rears handed to them by ‘griefers’ is in no way shape or form going to encourage anyone to stick around and play WvW. Just the opposite I think.
Well for one, they’re not griefers.
Spawn camping is griefing. The spawn area doesn’t even give you invulnerability. There was even a thread with a pic showing another server’s players on their spawn platform!
I regard stealth as OP, not Thieves. Allow me to see bleed damage on a player in stealth and I will be happy
Did they change it so you can’t? I swear you used to see bleed damage on invisible players.
They should really display all damage done to players in stealth on screen just like they do with visible players.
the EU matchups, at first glance, look whacked. but look more closely.
- Piken is winning vs #2 Elona and #4 Seafarers. is this a time zone thing? because otherwise I’d say that Piken may end up really happy with this matchup.
- Desolation and #10 Riverside are putting up a big fight against #1 Vizunah. both underdogs are gaining rating.
- vs #5 vs #7 looks like an excellent matchup, score is close there.
I don’t have much to say about the other matchups, except that they don’t look terrible, and the highest ranked server isn’t winning in every case. #11 is beating #8, and #17 is beating #12.
-ken
Week long matches are a marathon, not a sprint.
What I want to know is have anet thrown out the random variable for the 3 ‘T1’ servers? Cause for the past month it hasn’t been random.
4 weeks ago you got SoR/TC/SoS. If you look at Snowreaps’ numbers, the top 3 tiers will fight each other 50% of the time.
Yeah but including this week its been 75%.
Yeah and if you flip a coin 4 times it should hit heads and tails 2 times each. If it hits heads 3 times is the coin broken?
Anyone who plays MMOs knows that the playerbase is notoriously bad at understanding/accepting statistics. How many times have you heard the spiel about droprates decreasing (sometimes it’s true) because of a string of bad luck.
When a zerg can carry people * 10 == supps, improving the way some of them can build means nothing…
Pretty much, it seems like this would help smaller groups, a zerg can already insta-build anything.
They can “fix” that right after they make it so ACs inside can’t fire at the door and hit rams/players outside.
Exactly, that is why I suggested Anet move towards designing classes for a hard (or harder) Trinity.
This is how the game is being played. They have to react.
So you want them to dumb down the game and make it harder for people to have organized play which would only encourage mindless zerging? What they should be doing is lifting up other classes so they are better at group play.
You’re also stretching the definition of the trinity. As there are no aggro mechanics in PVP, there are no tanks. Building for survivability is only one aspect of traditional tanking. People bunker because it allows them to do sustained DPS rather than being bowled over. Elementalists switching into water to drop fields then switching out are are hardly dedicated healers. The vast majority of staff Ele play is laying down other fields and doing damage. Similarly, you wouldn’t say a Ranger dropping a water field is a healer.
the rating boundary between T1 and T2 was very small, and TC spent a lot of time at the top of T2, so I’m not surprised you didn’t see the problem it created in the lower tiers. DB shooting up to T2, then falling down again would have been a huge help to TC if you had decided to make a push for T1, but the old system made that kind of help harder and harder to come by.
Players stacking and jumping ship is not the fault of the matchup system, it’s a problem with the playerbase and their mentality.
Even with the new system, at least for middle tier servers, if you want to win going to a higher tier is still the answer.
Also, the idea of winner up, loser down doesn’t work at all. If that were the case, those two servers, who may be evenly matched, would never actually get to play each other. They would just swap stomping and getting stomped.
Just wanted to throw that out there for people who are proposing this. It would be just as broken as this matchup system.
WULD is another terrible suggestion that should never happen. Although I’m not following your logic. Hypothetically, the winner of a tier moves up, loses, then returns to their original tier. Meanwhile, the loser of the original matchup goes down, wins, and returns to their original tier. In other words, they play each other every other week.
The “middle” servers in WULD are doomed. Imagine being the #5 in NA ladder – all that server will do is lose to #4 and #3 in rotation, week in and week out.
As opposed to losing to the #4 server week in and week out under the old system?
So instead of TC fighting JQ which will give them some good fight. They are fighting like rank 10-15 server?
The deviation is too large.
- TC can’t fight #3 JQ, because #3 JQ is busy fighting #2 SoR and #1 BG.
instead, #4 TC is fighting #7 Mag and #8 SoS. #7 and #8 are not by any means rank 10-15.
btw, #4 TC can’t fight #5 DB and #6 FA, because #5 and #6 are busy this week giving #12 CD a chance to prove that it deserves to move up.
really, these are all reasonable matchups. look at some of the outcomes in EU if you want to find servers who have a real reason to complain.
-ken
I highly doubt that #12 CD shares your view point while they are being stomped. I do not agree that #12 fighting #5, 6 is reasonable. Surely they would have a much better fight and be able to prove themselves against #7-11. There is no reason for them to fight servers ranked 6-7 higher than themselves.
Developers should NEVER give in to forumites if what they’re asking for isn’t good for the game. It doesn’t take Jesus to have the foresight to predict the current situation. I would be shocked if the game designers are surprised by this outcome.
To the losing server(s), there is no meaningful difference between being spawn camped and having a stronger server guarding everything that grants points. Nor is this more exciting for the server doing the camping.
I have to wonder how much a score handicap will help. Are people dissuaded by total score/PPT, or by what happens in WvW? I’ve seen the enemy vacate a map many times after they fight tooth and nail over garrison and then lose it. Is your average player going to stay on a map with no commander, one that has the out manned buff, or join a map where their server holds nothing? Probably not.
Make population the factor. Not points.
But points are determined by population…
(edited by Visiroth.5914)
And anyway how does that differ from other placed AOEs?
Other placed AOE require LOS to place a target for one…
2) you can hit stuff on walls with DT that even MS with extra AOE radius will not hit, I have personally seen this while in a group of Eles where no one could get damage with MS but we could DT.
3) you can hit stuff behind walls.
Stop trying (badly) to defend a broken skill.
Well, personally I think its great that a class has something that make it “necessary” in WvW. All classes should have this.
Yeah, it’s not like Elementalists aren’t great in WvW as skirmishers or support with fields or anything.
The main reason is simply that at the point that outmanned does that, it encourages servers to have fewer players on to take advantage of the stat boost. That, in turn, will cause people to yell at other players for logging on and taking away the buff.
So you’re saying there will never be a buff to outmanned that would give a tangible advantage that would allow an outmanned server to compete in any way, such as less supply required to build siege as that would fall under the same rationale as not giving a stat boost.
Then I guess population differences on the map will always, forever be the determining factor for everything.
Except that’s silly. Its not like gaining the next rank is harder than getting the rank you got before after wvw rank 10 or so. If you mess up putting 5 points somewhere you didn’t want to just yet, just get 5 more levels.
Most traits cost a lot more than 5 measly points or I’d agree with you. I bet a lot of people were wishing they had points saved up when AC mastery was released. The same thing could happen when a new trait line is introduced, or an existing one is expanded.
Any time something is changed or added a reset would be nice. Add to that more descriptive tool tips on what some of these traits do. “Increased radius” isn’t helpful unless I know what the increase is. I can unlock some extra skill but I don’t even know what the cooldown on it is.
It’s broken currently, in more ways than one. It is instantly repeatable, and on top of that you can (or could until recently) actually trigger it after you’ve taken the tower. It needs to be a 30 minute wait AFTER Siegerazer has been killed, and at that time marker it needs to check to see if the tower is owned or not.
^this.
There is a bug that AFAIK has never been acknowledged nor fixed with the breakout events where whenever a breakout is triggered another one will ALWAYS be available immediately regardless of the failure or success of the first breakout with no cooldown. There is nothing sillier than having Siegerazer waiting in your spawn after you have just used him to take a tower back. If the first and second breakouts both fail to capture the tower I believe there is the normal cooldown.
I don’t think this is actually a bug – it might be a feature. From what I understand, if you trigger Siegerazer after already having control of the tower, he’ll approach the tower as normal, but instead of popping the control areas that you typically stand in the trigger the siege building part of the event, his Dolyak instead completely refills the the tower’s supply.
He already refills the supply when you capture it. If it’s a feature then it barely makes sense. It obviously seems like either a bug or poor design. Why breakouts in pairs? Wouldn’t it make more sense for breakouts to continue infinitely with no cooldown until the tower is taken?
After testing the range I decided I would keep AC mastery and get the last tier with the refund. The idea of that skill is great but 60 sec cooldown?!? Is it me or it is weak for something that cost 25 point?
There is very little info about it…
What has a 60 sec cooldown? That may make the difference in my choice. Heck in 60 sec the golems might be through the gate lol.
The final skill for AC mastery is a 60 sec cooldown. The one that unstealths anybody and makes them not able to restealth for a whopping 8 secs.
How long is the poison duration of the final skill for AC mastery?