x/pistol
maybe even in tpvp as well
nothing else the thief has comes close to head shot and black powder in terms of utility and active group support.
add in shadow refuge, shadow step (or maybe not if its sword mainhand)
the rest im honestly not sure. what do you guys think?
i admit i prefer dagger/pistol cuz i like backstabbing, but S/P when played right is very powerful
ive honestly never seen a guardian or warrior die that fast, not even when my team focuses them.
could be lag if you have a bad setup, i havent been online in a couple days maybe servers having issues?
but ya, if your guardian and warrior are dying in 1.5 seconds it is seriously a L2P issue.
maybe dont run ahead of your team into the enemy team? on my thief if i did hasted pistol whip (which says it evades too btw) id die in those 4 seconds, every time.
Instant kills should never exist … Its not fun when you die instant and its not fun when you are not able to react because he is in stealth …
Burst should be nerfed from all abilities and then we will all be happy …
whats funny is it wont, will just make new forms of QQ
i think the way ablities stack for damage, at least in pvp, should be nerfed.
honestly as a thief youc an spec so you get 6 stacks of might (maybe more), fury, and 150% more damage on next attack, and if target is below 50% have it deal 20% more damage, not too mention many of the minor traits give us a 10% damage boost under certain circumstances.
then if you factor in any group buffs, its really not surprising
13k hp is actually pretty standard on a ele glass spec. i dont know how much toughness he has but if the thief crits his entire hp bar then maybe he has very little. Toughness is most of the time better then HP if you want to survive. Still tho, 13k crit for one ability is rather ridiculous if you ask me
firstly i think ele needs more base hp
secondly dont nerf backstab, i drather you nerf assassins signet (150% more damage on next attack) or the signet trait (grants 5 stacks of might when you activate a signet).
the problem isnt backstab, backstab in a basic build without trying to stack for that one backstab crit is pretty balanced.
the problem is the scaling/ability to stack damage multipliers so high
backstab is a high risk high reward skill, requiring us to burn ini/Ccd to enter stealth, then we have to get behind them (and if anyone sees us stealth next to them they should…i dunno…MOVE).
It’s the ONLY viable tactic to finish someone. Else you’ll just find yourself being dazed/knocked/whatnot’ed to death.
Stealth finishing is clever use of stealth, and the reward is appropriate.
Exactly. And they are totally balanced because they are on the mesmer and thief class.
just cuz people complain about thieves and mesmers doesnt exactly mean they should have there stomp/rez utility taken awaykitten/p>
also i hate how people act like just cuz its a team game they cant be bothered to look at more then one person on there screen, learn the animations and gain some group awareness. if you fighting a thief and a ranger and you see a warrior with a sword coming hes 9 times out of 10 gonna bull rush and HB yourkitten get ready to dodge, if you didnt notice him coming, thats your fualt for not paying attention.
i run a build on my thief that has no stunbreaker, i have to be very careful when it comes to said stuns.
this doesnt mean i think stuns are OP.
a thief for example, best one i can think of is a S/P thief. he doesnt have a lot of stuns, his PW is a stun, then he probably has devourer for a immobilize. maybe even basilisk venom for a short stone form (tho rarely)
PW stun lasts about .25 seconds if i remember right. the only way its killing you is if he pairs it with haste.
idk how other people feel but i feel like for mesmers and thieves when they go stealth the stealth should break when they start to cast the finisher as it breaks if they cast anything else it seems like a big consistancy issue
yes ik my grammer sucks btw
uhm…you mean the execute im gathering ? if you have non targetable interrupt that will work on the thief.
but honestly, the thief provides so little for his teamates outside of a couple stealth options nobody takes and a couple steal traits everyone takes (thrill of hte crime, bountiful theft)
is it so wrong that they provide some tangible utility in pvp? i use my aoe stealth CD to gain some protection and to help rez/finish people.
sorta makes sense for the sneaky guy to be good at finishing people off, we are supposed to be dirty fighters after all.
How much I dislike this words .. Once you learn how to counter HB from warrior once you learn how to master your class the game is balance ..
Let me say something to you then .. The pvp of this game is a joke .. I thought you had a chance to actually pvp in this game but God I was sooo wrong …
1 disable and you are dead… You have no chance to survive against burst classes when you play with condition damage … I think Arena net should reduce burst by miles and give the disables to classes they actually needed …
I really want to pvp with my Necro but this is forbiten for me . Not because I dont like it but I perform great as warrior because stunning people and 1shot them isnt that hard tbh .. And if you going to say if you fight decent people will be hard to do HB on them its pretty easy .. force them to dodge 2 times then stun-HB=profit ..
Im not here to complain about warriors .. Its burst against Tank builds and nothing else ..
first its almost UNIVERSALLY recognized that necros need a buff, so if your basing your entire argument off of your necro being unable to compete you mine as wells top right now.
as for the HB warrior ,it is pretty easy to avoid, and people have more ways to then there 2 dodges.
@knyx, no dude, stealth isnt af luf mechanic, it was a fluf mechanic in the other games where it was only useable out of combat and didnt have a duration.
in this game its meant to be used to mitigate damage and to gain positioning.
also, again, just cuz we cant blinik behind the target or anythign doesnt mean backstabs positional requirement is bad. again, just cuz you add a ability to instantly port us behind the target, is still dumbing down the class (no longer needing to jockey for position for a backstab).
you want to know why it fits and why we have it? cuz its risk vs freaking reward, you try to get in for that high damage backstab, instead of having it be granted to you.
you can view it any way you want my friend, but in the end it IS dumbing down the strategy.
i dont have such an issue landing backstabs, i suggest you mess with your trait setup if you do.
i LIKE the positioning, why does everyone want to dumb down the skills?
thief isnt the most squishy calss yes, but it is one of hte most squishy.
just for an idea i go 30crit, 30 stealth, 10 trick (optional, i like thrill of hte crime)
i get haste weapon rune and haste trait.
stealth heal, shadow refuge, runspeed signet (optional) and ini regen signet (probably optional too)
fights usually go shadow shot>steal>BP>autoattack. i do very high autoattack damage with this build, ESPECIALLY if one of my haste effects kick in. ive killed people by autoing them while they whif in my BP radius. once i get some attention its HS leading into backstab.
after that it just depends on whats happening.
oh i also have shadows rejuvination (300 healing with shadow arts tree). a lot of the time in a fight after i get my initial burst i put down shadow refuge to heal up while i rez teamates.
but BP ability to protect against enemy executes and help gaurantee your own exectutes on enemy, head shots ability also to interrupt important spells or executes from range. I think its the best rogue weapon set for support while also being the best 1v1 weapon set.
even tho i only have 12 ini, i regen ini fast enough that i rarely have issues.
maybe its cuz of my natural playstyle but imo pistol offhand is the best utility a rogue can bring, and i do inifitly better then D/D even with learning to land CnD often.
i swear to god if you take all my burst away as dagger mainhand (HS then BS) ill quit this game, find you, and throw my copy at you while shouting (I DISAGREE)
then i will come back here…and cry.
When you spec yourself to be a glass cannon and go up against another glass cannon the first one to hit wins.
this
for a thief to get a backstab that high they have to spec glass cannon (ive seen as high as 20k but that had stacked group buffs as well)
the real problem is elementalist base hp, they should not have 10k hp as galss cannon build, maybe 15k hp.
and even then….the quote above me explains it nicely, first one to hit as galss cannon usually is hte wi8nner
you can discuss until your blue in the face, but here is how it worked for me in practice
D/D serviceable
D/P imo better (especially in 1v1) but more initiative hungry. tho my spec doesnt take the +3 ini from trickery, it does get 2 initiative back on stealth, and 2 (3 with signet) more inietiative every 10 seconds
the only possible OP things thieves have is haste (when used with other abilities) and thieves guild
imo elemental needs a buff
necro too
eng maybe
ranger/warrior i dunno
@sorrow get your facts straight bud.
thives can kill a player with 1 skill lol. you know why? cuz thievs only have 1-2 damage skills per weapon set, everything else is utility.
now if you mean 2-3 skill presses! then your wrong, outside of maybe a complete glass cannon backstab build stacking might and assassins signet and getting a crit without taking hidden killer trait.
honestly on a more well rounded thief build (still arguably glass cannon in ways) the last thing i want to target is a warrior/guardian cuz it takes forever for just me to bring em down, i can do it, but it isnt as fast as you believe.
and we can only be in stealth from abilities. it takes 8 initiative (6 when traited) to get stealth with dagger/pistol, 6 (4) when landing CnD with dagger offhand (obvious animation, cast time, dodgeable, if you dodge it we dont get stealth nor the initiative reduction)
other then that its a 30 second Cd heal, 1min Cd utility skills, or shadow trap which we have no control over.
not to mention there are dodge thieves that hardly stealth if ever.
moa morph/thieves guild are pretty cheese tho imo.
stating that a mesmer can remove boons and add conditions is stating the mechanics of the class, not whether its OP or not. and i think the only ones that do high damage are phantasm builds arent they?
stop saying wait for the meta to develop. There is no meta to develop when you play vs pugs in 99% of tpvp matches. So seriously stop using that as some kind of excuse. Was running some rag tag “pickup” premade today and won every tournament except one vs an elite premade running, you guessed it: Ele/Engi/Thief/Mes/Guard
if thats the case then any balancing at all is a bad idea since you have no accurate information to base it off of (skilled players)
@Scribbles, strawman argument, if that, you said my credibility went out the window yet you gave no explanation as to why, where when i refused to debate a question i at least gave a reason.
either prove me wrong, concede, or ignorantly hold on to your incorrect wants and desires
Wow, a l2p comment.
And you play….let’s see from your comment history..oh look, a thief!
It’s funny. No matter what game i’ve played the stealth/thief class always attracts kids. Who are so terrified of their class having any sort of balancing they will justify any sort of claim with ‘L2P’ without any debate.
What previous ‘pvp’ game did you play before gw2? let me guess WoW?
i played a rogue in wow (and shaman, and mage, and deathknight etc)
rogues play almost nothing like thieves in this game.
the OP is joking right? hes basically complaining about what these classes are MEANT to do well.
thieves are meant to have best burst dps and be greatly mobile. its the entire basis of the class and why initiative exists.
guardians are THE defensive class in this game
mesmer is a bit harder for me to judge but i know they are supposed to be “tricky” with all the mind manipulation and stuff.
so you want to take away what these calsses excel at. i dunno. at most i could see slight adjustments but really
if you play elemental, your play a almost universally acknowledged weak class, unless played perfectly or using very specific builds.
all the engineers ive seen were either sustain/defensive builds or they need some damage upgrades.
rangers i honestly dont know.
necro needs some buffs obviously.
warrior i also dont know, they seem fairly balanced, sort of a compromise between thief and guardian for damage/mobility.
im not saying the 3 classes you mention are the bench mark to be measured to, they may need some nerfs, but to bring them down to the level of a elementalist or necro would be overnerfing, those classes need buffed!
honestly the ONLY time ive had trouble targeting a player is when im trying to hit a smart mesmer, thieves guild is easy to tell the difference, pets are easy, rock dogs easy, etc.
i give up, you all wanna destroy the competitive nature of this game, be my guest, ill go enjoy borderlands 2 maybe
People observing the obvious aren’t crying – they’re pointing out what every competitive player already knows: 3 classes are head and shoulders above the rest at their respective roles.
Without balance tweaks, this isn’t going to change. You don’t need to let the meta evolve; these classes are very clearly better than the alternatives.
That doesn’t mean those classes need nerfs, necessarily (although I’d argue that it’s a no-brainer that Mesmer portal needs to be unusable while carrying a repair kit), but rather that other classes need to be brought to the same level.
street fighter 4, when the new chars came out (forget ther name, two kids) everyone cried OP, everyone played them, tourneys were filled with them. did they nerf them? no, few months went by, counters were found, tricks were learned, they were overcome, diversity was restored. obviously im not saying the game is perfectly balanced, but the company has a better concept of balance this most it seems, many things work themselves out even when people “know its obviously overpowered or underpowered” as you say.
so you want to ignore the intended mechanics of the thief class cuz you disagree wit them?
Because you can’t just look at that and go
“Man, why did we make an execute ability do as much damage as other abilities above 25% HP? Why did we give it a gap closer while others don’t have that? Why did we make it cost 50% less initiative compared to the other abilities?”
Nope. You need at least 2 years of game play to understand the intricacies of Heart Seeker spam.
a loaded question that doesnt deserve an answer as its loaded on one side, try to enter from a unbiased view.
fact-heartseeker spam only worked on poor players
fact-heartseeker spam failed utterly in team play environments Tpvp and WvWvW
fact-heartseeker is the dagger mainand thieves ONLY damage skill that doesnt require stealth, there offhand options are cripple/stealth or interrupt/blinding zone, there MH moves are HS, and death blossom, which does so low damage when your power specced that its only worth the dodge, and wen your condition specced you dont use HS.
so what your saying is if a dagger mainhand thief doesnt use backstab they are playing wrong, which limits us to usuallys pending most are traits in stealth arts.
got it
sorry dude the warrior is easy,and it was overpowered,but then people learned that one anti cc and the warrior is down, but now those 3 class are overpower and we have had time to counter then,but it is imposible to counter so now the forums is full of crys for nerfs to those 3 classes
“we had time to figure out x so y must already be figured out by now too!”
ya…
forum cryers cry about EVERYTHING, anything that is remotely difficult or doesnt agree with there tastes gets complained on, its hardly a indicator of anything except the downwardspiral of society and the internet
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8765/37252285.jpg
I’m not shouting or crying OP and nerf (maybe just a little), I’m asking for explanation. I’ve got very little knowledge of mesmer, I dodged out of some of his Quickness combo at beginning, then some more and then he landed this. Huh? No glass cannon build – engi (1.7k toughness / 18k health)uhm…1.7k toughness and 18k hp is indeed glass cannon. thats really low toughness, and the hp aint stellar
You must be confusing armor with toughness. Armor can get to 3k or so, but 1.7k is closer to the toughness cap than not. The base is 916, builds which invest a LOT into it have 2k toughness, and the cap is 2300 if you invest only into toughness Average builds run with around 1500, glass cannon builds with between 916 – 1300.
Now, there is another side to this which is that unless you’re going very tanky and getting around 2k toughness or so, just about any build kind of is a glass cannon due to the burst damage/CC chaining in the game, but that’s a larger issue.
ty for elaborating kind sir, i tink that was my issue
on the final phase of the beta condition damage was overpower and every pvp team was all full of condition builds,now we cant keep 25 bleeds as before,duration was nerfed and etc.
now we are seeing teams full of guardian/thief/mesmer so we need the nerfs to those
i agree condition was over nerfed due to kneejerk reactions. did it need a nerf? ya, too bad, too bad
And FOTM exists because those classes can achieve what the others can with minimal effort.
that is what FOTM is, not why it exists, i already said why it exists
lol yes, me saying things may or may not be UP or OP, saying that i want balance, yes im clearly defending OP classes from getting nerfed.
just cuz you want instant gratification and reaction doesnt mean its the right choice.
people say mesmer/thief/guardians are required….that is player knowledge, player knowledge is what we say when we talk about the meta maturing, fact is player knowledge hasnt covered everything yet.
could those 3 classes be OP? certainly, entirely feasible. and if enough time has passed for people to thuroughly try various specs, counters and comps, then let the nerfing commence!!!
uhm…1.7k toughness and 18k hp is indeed glass cannon. thats really low toughness, and the hp aint stellar
It’s not gonna get much higher as engineer.
really? i admit i have been slacking on my char eng, didnt think they had that bad of DR
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8765/37252285.jpg
I’m not shouting or crying OP and nerf (maybe just a little), I’m asking for explanation. I’ve got very little knowledge of mesmer, I dodged out of some of his Quickness combo at beginning, then some more and then he landed this. Huh? No glass cannon build – engi (1.7k toughness / 18k health)uhm…1.7k toughness and 18k hp is indeed glass cannon. thats really low toughness, and the hp aint stellar
huh? If he had 1.7k toughness that means he had soldiers amulet. Soldiers amulet is glass cannon build to u?
no but 1.7k toughness is low to me, 2k would be like…avg, so would 20k hp
@dreadspectre-no, i wont, its a accurate and important term to get to know in any game that strives for pvp balance. if you dont like it, then plug your ears and whine.
@Thundar-true, there may be other comps that are better/stronger when executed correctly, but people wont find it unless you give them time to.
Across various games people who PvP have been waiting for balance, they move from game to game hoping to see it. So while we wait for the “meta game” to mature, people drop off playing. They’ve gotten tired of FOTM and all it entails.
While its important to let a game mature, its far more important to work in a realistic time frame to ensure people continue to play. Being annoyed any time you walk into sPvP due to some pretty substantial imbalances can and will cause more than a few people to just not take part in it, and that is bad for the game overall.
Edit: People may well find better comps that counter the current fotm, but if they are not easier to execute people will still and always take the path of least resistance. Now if that new comp preforms better than the old, with less player input or less of a skill curve, people will then gravitate towards that. That just re-enforces the fotm cycle, that’s something that should be avoided. But thats a matter of the community’s mentality.
i agree to a point, community mentality at this point is full of spoiled, instant gratification wanting heroes who assume they know enough to make game changing decisions and because the masses agree it “must be right 90% of the time”
imo you create fotm classes by nerfing/buffing too soon before the weaknesses, strengths, and counters can be properly gauged, which takes more then a single month or 2
And why do you think you’re getting rolled? It’s because the Mesmer has the greatest tool sets out of any classes to successfuly 1v1.
1v1 is about control and damage avoidance. No one does that better than a Mesmer because the other classes don’t have the toolset to compete.
It’s not about player skill, because at the top everyone is the same. It’s about toolsets and decision making. It’s the unfortunate design problem you run into when making multiple different classes.
again whether it ends up being true or not is irrelevant to the discussion, balance still needs to be approached more careful, people already crying for nerfs or buffs are jumping th efreaking gun by a month or 2
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8765/37252285.jpg
I’m not shouting or crying OP and nerf (maybe just a little), I’m asking for explanation. I’ve got very little knowledge of mesmer, I dodged out of some of his Quickness combo at beginning, then some more and then he landed this. Huh? No glass cannon build – engi (1.7k toughness / 18k health)
uhm…1.7k toughness and 18k hp is indeed glass cannon. thats really low toughness, and the hp aint stellar
whether the ability was too strong or not, there reason for nerfing it was forum outcry.
sorry dude but i only can read to the typical thief that only could kill people with the one bottom spam that teleport him to teh target so he dnt need learn to move and now he cant killing to better players than him.
If one skill is overpower is here on the forums with the cry of people where we can see it.
oh sure im sure that many crys are false and are learn to play case but when the general opinion is that one ksill is OP 90 % of the time is because it is overpower and the forum is good for that
first it doesnt teleport, it leaps. and lol at arbitrary %, no really its not, not even close, its more hit or miss then that.
it is easy. others games you cant go to pvp with you 5 minutes played character so we cant see this.
but on GW you can so weare seeing only thsoe clases on pvp.
if you really thinks thatit is balanced and the problem is thatpeople dont know how to play im sure that you are a troll because the GW2 with those 10 skill is damed easy to master.
sorry but mien argument is just.one game that lets u play on pvp with any lvl 1 char that u want and EVERYBODY is choosing only those 3 characters is because they areoverpowered or other chars are underpowers
firstly, i didnt say the game was balanced, i said you NEED TO LET THE GAME MATURE to really find exactly what needs to be balanced. and imo wow was easier to master with its bajillion skills and macros. this game is diff, people arent used to it yet “no, dont you dare tell me people are, the majority definitly arent”. also, its 15 skills (have to consider weapon swap lol).
they very wel may be OP, and that very well may be part of the reason, but its more likely they are easy, or they have a spec thats easy. either way you still need to let the game mature to get a accurate picture, you dont wait a mont, nerf/buff and wait another month…thats just bad balancing.
when i write i assume players are skilled enought to face their opponents; writing that mesmer guardian and thief are only op makes me feel sad.
noone wants to learn to play this game anymore? just yell at op classes is enough for you?
okPeople are getting to the point where they do know the game and understand it well enough to declare that these classes are definitively a bit too strong. I am not so sold on the thief being all that overpowered, but the mesmer certainly is.
You also need to pay attention to the logic of your thinking… if it were about learning the game, then thieves and mesmers should also need to learn it and have problems with different things. They really don’t, at least not by the complaints we read.
Add to this that the uplevel system allows all of these players who face a Mesmer or whatever on their class of choice to go ahead, roll a Mesmer and try it out. When people have, they’ve found it substantially easier.
dude, they think they know the game, some of there accusations may be right, but to think that they actually know the game is a falsehood. you really are bad at the concept of keeping balance.
you want to know my problems as a thief? i have trouble with conditions, my only ways to remove burning/poison/bleed is on my 30 second heal or a passive that has a 45 second CD and activates when my hp hits 75%.
my only way to remove cripple/weakness is on a DIFFERENT heal, or a 1 min cd dodge that also returns ini, or traiting so when we dodge it removes them (few thieves take this skill atm). only way to remove chill affects are that heal and 1min cd, obviously we cant have this all, and the best we can get leaves us with a sustain build, not a damage build (not enough points left)
we have another way to remove condition, but it removes 1 random condition every 3 seconds while in stealth (even when stealth specced it lasts 4 seconds, so you get one random condition removed)
i have other weaknesses/issues, certain classes and specs also give me a hard time. but why explain it all, you want wows pendulum design of “balance” and its obvious
First of all, I never played WoW. Second, I have never been one to cry about balance in MMOs but have typically been of the opinion that the games are balanced and people need to learn to play. In this game, it seems so obvious to me that I simply can’t have a different opinion other than that its unbalanced.
More to the point: what exactly do you define as “WoW’s pendulum design of balance?” I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say.
how many mmo’s or competitive pvp games have you played? cuz this game is far from worst atm.
wows pendulum design, they cant balance worth crap, so isntead they nerf something that people complain about, and buff other things until a diff class is “OP” for a duration, add infinum…a constant cycle of buffin gand nerfing with a attempt to appear to be balancing but really its just a facade.
your realy not getting it, classes fitting into niches isnt what im talking about. (roamer, capper, defending, etc are niches)
as for what class can out 1v1 a mesmer, i dont know THE META HASNT EVOLVED ENOUGH TO SEE YET, people are getting rolled and whining isntead of finding viable counters. anet is listening to this, it is the basis for bad game balance.
we are gonna be nerfed into oblivion cuz anet does kneejerk nerfs witout letting te meta evolve
So far as I’ve seen, they don’t do “kneejerk nerfs” at all.
They were right to “nerf” Heartseeker earlier, because the nerf did exactly one thing: forced people to specifically use it as an execute.
nerfing cuz its easy is a far cry from nerfing cuz its unbalanced. it was still not worth it damage per ini wise to spam hs when target was above 66%, but people did it cuz it was easy.
they didnt let the game mature at all, they keep this strategy, the games balance will become just like wow, a sad state of flavor of the month.
do if i have one deathtouch skill that kill to one person and cant be evaded it must not be nerfed because it is early on thegame?
this isnt real but it is your reasoning.sorry dude teh thief HS is a finisher and if thiefs can use it out of finisher range and it is good then must be nerfed
you didnt read my post, or if you did, didnt understand it. im not gonna bother explaining it to you either way, re-read, if you still dont get it, then i guess just keep on trucking with that big case of misunderstanding you ahve there.
@dreadspectre-no, i wont, its a accurate and important term to get to know in any game that strives for pvp balance. if you dont like it, then plug your ears and whine.
@Thundar-true, there may be other comps that are better/stronger when executed correctly, but people wont find it unless you give them time to.
when i write i assume players are skilled enought to face their opponents; writing that mesmer guardian and thief are only op makes me feel sad.
noone wants to learn to play this game anymore? just yell at op classes is enough for you?
okPeople are getting to the point where they do know the game and understand it well enough to declare that these classes are definitively a bit too strong. I am not so sold on the thief being all that overpowered, but the mesmer certainly is.
You also need to pay attention to the logic of your thinking… if it were about learning the game, then thieves and mesmers should also need to learn it and have problems with different things. They really don’t, at least not by the complaints we read.
Add to this that the uplevel system allows all of these players who face a Mesmer or whatever on their class of choice to go ahead, roll a Mesmer and try it out. When people have, they’ve found it substantially easier.
dude, they think they know the game, some of there accusations may be right, but to think that they actually know the game is a falsehood. you really are bad at the concept of keeping balance.
you want to know my problems as a thief? i have trouble with conditions, my only ways to remove burning/poison/bleed is on my 30 second heal or a passive that has a 45 second CD and activates when my hp hits 75%.
my only way to remove cripple/weakness is on a DIFFERENT heal, or a 1 min cd dodge that also returns ini, or traiting so when we dodge it removes them (few thieves take this skill atm). only way to remove chill affects are that heal and 1min cd, obviously we cant have this all, and the best we can get leaves us with a sustain build, not a damage build (not enough points left)
we have another way to remove condition, but it removes 1 random condition every 3 seconds while in stealth (even when stealth specced it lasts 4 seconds, so you get one random condition removed)
i have other weaknesses/issues, certain classes and specs also give me a hard time. but why explain it all, you want wows pendulum design of “balance” and its obvious
yes that is the CURRENT meta (or at partially corrent perspective of it at least) a young and underdeveloped one where people are riding out the easy and not finding new niches.
you have to LET IT EVOLVE, nerfing/buffing because you percieve things, accurate or not, will just lead to a pendulum of OP and UP from here till the game dies, no balance will ever be achieved beacuse nobody will be given enough time to come up with more fleshed out comps.
honestly i think this is wows fault, they are horrible at game balance and just alternate between whats OP this month.
nobody wants a competitive pvp game it seems, they just want what wow gave them, constly bad buffs/nerfs that alternated what class was OP and what was UP.
let the meta mature, ill keep repeating it
ya true, i was a team player till i realized i was getting screwed on glory, so now i run with the zerg and made a build that supports that playstyle. ill gladly switch back once the incentive is placed, i dont even care if i win/lose anymore so long as i get high glory.
the worst balance that i never have seen on any pvp game since the god mode of BW on warhammer
the worst balancing in any pvp game, especially one that wants to be competitive, is to balance before the meta matures, anyone who wants a truly competitive game knows that