I think he may have a good point though sorrow it’s not the skill damage that is as much a problem as the stacking effects, boons haste etc. that creates more of a problem than the damage the skill would do without it. Hell I’ve been pistol whipped from 3/4 health and stomped on before I could really react due to haste, if there was a limit on what boons, skills you could stack it may improve the situation. Just my options ofc.
In my opinion, the quickness is contingent, because if there wasn’t such an high damage output on a thief, probably quickness isn’t worth it. I mean, quickness skills have almost high cooldown and side effects, if you wouldn’t be able to kill someone in 2 skills, probably starting a quickness chain isn’t the best choice.
If the thief get a damage nerf, a skilled player will always carry a quickness skill on his bar, but he will use that skill not to make a 2 skill combo to burst down a target in half a second, but will use that skill more wisely and chose when is the right time to use that skill, since, at least regarding thief, if after you used quickness the target isn’t dead, you will probably facing troubles.Also, I think that the debuff after going out of stealth should lasts longer and stealth mechanic should be more linked to the Shadow Arts traitline, to avoid the thieves that compensate the very low defenses with tons of stealth skills, making them invulnerable also when not specced into Shadow Arts.
dude the 2 seconds from my haste proc is sometimes enough for my autoattack to kill someone, or take nearly half there hp in the least.
quickness is seriously OP
and just cuz you dont like fighting vs stealth doesnt mean stealth is unbalanced, it has some bugs, but once those are fixed it will be fine.
50%…lol
the problem is damage stacking, not hte class itself, look at the tooltip for our damage skills, other classes have skills that hit just as hard, when you stack all that power/crit and gruop buffs/self buffs, your gonna get stupid damage. this means either damage needs nerfed ACROSS THE BOARD for all classes, or we need to adjust damage stacking.
You have no idea of the situation if you say that every profession can hit as hard as a thief do.
Try the Necromancer or the Elementalist, spec them with full crits/power, join a game and see how stupid the damage is. Consider also the time you take to make that damage.
yes it was a bit of a blanket statement, however, necors and elementalists NEED A BUFF FOR GODS SAKE.
however ive seen elementalists do one spell for over 10k before. and that spell i bet doesnt require being in stealth and behind the target in melee range :P
imo yes quickness is OP, its fun seeing yourself go in turbo mode sure, but its just not balanced well
oh look another nerf thief post, how quaint
Is this an example of irony, or hypocrisy? I’m genuinely confused.
again, balancing classes is fine, but thats not what people want, they want them completly destroyed to the point where they will be unplayable.
no i dont mean the mobs ingame, i mean the mobs here in the forum. its too late for this game, the pitch forks have been raised, the torches lit, and the lynch mobs formed.
it doesnt even matter if a thief, or mesmer, or guardian, or any other class is ovepowered anymore. this mob mentality is gonna get class after class nerfed into the ground to the point where everything will be the same and nothing unique for fun, everyone will be frustrated.
how do i know?
when people can post THE HOLY TRINITY as a reply and not get infracted or banned for it, no other information constituted the post, and it wasnt on topic.
This game is going to be ruined because of its playerbase. says a lot about todays online generation for gaming >.<
ill say it agian, i dont even care if those classes are OP anymore, balance is one thing, but thats not what you guys want, you want a lynching.
I guess its ok, ill enjoy what the game is until its playerbase has burned it to the ground.
@OP keep telling yourself that, keep telling yourself that 12k+ backstabs followed by 9k+ heartseekers on 3k toughness is strategic planning, bottom line the Thief’s burst needs a massive nerf, I say a good 50% nerf and this is because they have no cooldown unlike the rest of the classes.
As for Mesmesr this class is legal botting no matter how you look at it, you create clones/phantasms and they do all the work for you, they need to make it that a player can not lose target vs a Mesmer and also lower the clone/phantasm damage by allot but increase the Mesmers direct damage so the class isn’t a ArenaNet certified botting program.
This game is new and i’m sure there will allot of tweeks to come, so before you go all irrational learn to use logic and reason and whats best for the game as a whole not what best for “me,me,me”.
50%…lol
the problem is damage stacking, not hte class itself, look at the tooltip for our damage skills, other classes have skills that hit just as hard, when you stack all that power/crit and gruop buffs/self buffs, your gonna get stupid damage. this means either damage needs nerfed ACROSS THE BOARD for all classes, or we need to adjust damage stacking.
So whats the surest sign of a broken/op/unbalanced class???? Anyone....
in PvP
Posted by: Wolfe.3097
Killing you in a low amount of skill usage, with high damage in a short amount of time.
This is a broken class.
thats actually how the class is designed, the initiative system, why can people not wrap therekittenminds around that?
if you play so poorly that we dont need to use our utility skills, we are gonna use our damage skills on you instead.
So whats the surest sign of a broken/op/unbalanced class???? Anyone....
in PvP
Posted by: Wolfe.3097
I think the surest sign is the amount of times you hear L2P when as a reasonable person you say “hey WAIT! this isnt fair”
If you question balance and hear L2P L2P and you are just bad its a sure bet the class is broken and unbalanced.
and whats makes you think that person is reasonable? cuz he posted with correct grammar?
Don’t spend a lot of time considering things, do you? Shortbow only offers Inf. Arrow unless you’re speccing to use it offensively. You can sacrifice a tiny bit of mobility with more attacking options with Swiftness on dodge and HS spamming across the map.
BTW, hit C&D and immediately pop steal. C&D will finish when you appear at your target giving you stealth 99% of the time. The only time it doesn’t is when you get unlucky and they dodge as you Steal in. Follow this up with a Backstab and voila! Easy opener. Don’t need u-skills at all for this. You -can- use your typical PW setup with immobilize venom so as soon as the backstab lands, you swap, pop Haste and proceed to burst them down. Not too difficult – I know because I’ve done it.
ive considered a lot actually. have used everyone weapon set, used every skill, tried multiple combinations, everything from glass cannon to sustain/survival and anything inbetween.
quite simply your kittening yourself by taking anything but shortbow all for the name of mind games. its group damage is potent, its combo potential is insane, and its mobility is amazing.
yes i know you can precast cnd and use steal, however steal has a decently long CD, so does shadow step. therefore your now a low group impact player, you get the kill, grats, too bad you go hide or work at a diminished effectiveness until those Cd’s are up again.
every competitive thief acknowledges that thieves themselves dont really have a alternate viable weapon set that brings enough the the class that shortbow does, maybe that means it needs a nerf or some pistol sets need a buff i dunno, but hter eit is, believe it or not.
besides PW evades, why not just precast it and steal? its redundant
i disagree with removing backstabs positional requirement, that is a risk vs reward situation, those should be encouraged, not dumbed down.
as for stealth, i dont know how i feel about that idea. seeing as i dont know how many non target required boon stripping there is.
i dont use pistol whip (i mean i have, i just like dagger mainhand more). but i dont think its really OP, it roots you, and the stun is near negligible without haste. basically in order to land pistol whip it always has to be paired with some kind of stun/immobilize or precasted and steal/infiltrators strike.
its not like HS spam, it requires setup, forethought, and timing to land.
As an Engineer i got no problems with thieves or mesmers. Play smart and they die easly.
Please tell me what you do, exactly. I am an Engineer as well, and would like to learn. Please be specific.
while i dont know what they do, there are certain engineers that definitly give me trouble. i think they are more sustain oriented but i could be wrong.
does nobody realize cloak and dagger has a cast time? it can be interrupted? you can dodge it? when they dont land there CnD strike, they dont get stealth, and they waist 6 initiative.
so in actuality, its quite easy to avoid that “kitten”
i agree haste needs to be removed from spvp
however backstab already does half damage to the front of the front of the target
Ergo Proxy.. The difference is there isnt 4 elementalists in every game trying to mist form auto kill me and my team every time someone gets downed and succeeding like 80% of the time.. I agree – Its a stupid mechanic in any case..
Sonho – Man… I love it when people make rediculous claims.. If you mean by play smart make em fight in your own little mini arena that it takes you 15 seconds to erect.. then yes.. Play “smart” and they die easily.. Going down in history as the worst players ever..
Wolfe – I dont have the patience to deal with you.. Anyone with half a brain can see you likely didnt pass 3rd grade.. You quote me quoting others like 4 times in a row.. Saying "yeah thief downed mechanic is broken’’… then in the very next repeated quote yer like “god! when will people stop complaining about every aspect of thieves!!”
so funny since you had just complained yourself one reply up….
my exasperation is in regards to the myriad of nerf thief for reasons x, y and z.
i maintain that thief downed state is out of line, as well as its underwater spear #5 skill. the fact that you cant figure this out that im trying to be unbiased in my arguments means at this moment your the pot calling the kettle black.
i gaurantee that stealth finishing is intended, now you can argue if its fair or not, or whether they should change it, but its not a bug
you can spec a thief a number of ways to be effective, thats not what this thread is about
honestly in a gruop setting BP has a greater impact then CnD. CnD is a good skill for gaining stealth, it hits for ok, but it isnt as reliable no matter how skilled you are. just the way it is mate.
as for the siege comment, i dont see how thats CnD exclusive, rather just plaeyrs not paying attention.
simply put pistol offhand offers more group utility then dagger offhand, there cannot be an argument against that
Lol Snido.. you were doing so good.. Why suddenly turn into a Kitten??
Im not the only guy who isnt happy at all with this crap.. L2P got old after season 1 of LoL..
and FYI when i say stomping get me killed.. Im referring to the fact that some classes can prolong the stomping process to a painful level which exposes me to missed opportunities and additional damage from a fight I just barely won to begin with..
Im sure I can just find another game that works better than this.. Players like me are usually sought after since I run a tight ship from a leadership role in solid groups.. i doubt ill waste my time with this game unless these issues are addressed in a big hurry..
Maybe this game just isnt for me.. I dont really find much weight in all the counter arguements you guys are presenting.. Aside from the comment about finding a strong tourney group..
thank goodness /bye
so you have just scratched the surface in pvp… the pvp in gw2 is totally new if you compare it to other mmorpgs… it takes time to adjust
I have a pretty deep background in PvP to begin with.. I realize there is a period where adjustment is required..
My post is meant to give Anet the idea that they should really hurry up with addressing these issues.. Right now these issues are game breaking for me and im warning alot of my friends away for the time being.
Im also very worried that balance may be impossible to achieve without gutting these two classes as they are built now.
The only way I can think of to balance this issue out would be to dramatically reduce the DPS that both classes put out to justify their utility.. I doubt that would go over well..
Other wise, changing the targ dropping/duplicate nature of either class really ruins their flavor..
Bottom line with regard to STOMP.. the second a stomp begins any stealth should instantly be dropped.. For this there can be no discussion.. I wont play a game where my Warrior is basically STOMP bait for any thief..
i swear to god people will never stop whining about every single freaking aspect of the thief class…and the only utility we bring is some steal buffs (if traited), black powder (if pistol offhand), and our ability to stomp.
This wasnt meant to be a thief hate post..
Im mostlykitten about these 3 things really sapping the fun out of the game. I play to be competitive and win.. I feel more and more like I need to be a thief of mesmer to achieve that goal.. I cant stand it.
Its dumb that one class has a WAYYYY better chance to land a STOMP than any other class. Landing a STOMP is one of the hardest things ive found in this game.. It gets me killed more often than not.. Now I usually just sit back and blast away with my 132 bleed tick rifle shots to get a kill.. it takes FOREVER and a day..
every class has a #2 that is supposed to stop one or multiple attempts for a STOMP.. thieves negate like 50% of the classes #2.. Thats really not something I can come to terms with especially given the amount of DPS and they provide and how hard it is to STOMP them..
Mesmers ruin pvp.. Both classes are the cause of the target dropping issues which are then followed by chaotic fights with a million doubles and pets..
Lets add sharks to the mix with a mesmer in Capricorn and now im really happy when my target drops..
i agree thief downed state is kinda dumb, needs some adjustment imo, i honestly think its a case of learning the classes, i played thief first, tried out warrior…destroyeed the theives around me cuz i knew there tricks.
its not that hard
if you finish number 1 or 2 on yoru team it just means you run with the zerg and tag everything before it dies.
ive never had a problem with targetting strangely
and stealth doesnt garuantee the thief getting a execute. any non target required interrupt can hit him
This reply is so weak its absurd.. So anyone finishing in the top spot or 2 is zerging? Can be that they revive and go to points that the team has neglected.. or defend points.. or god forbid get a kill or 10 as a non thief..
Ive never had an issues with targetting til I played this game. Even SWTOR I found easy.. I also used to run as the MA merc and Warrior in my DAoC gank grps.. or MA on my fire wiz..
FYI DAoC is likely the best pvp game ever made..
This game has kitten tons of potential, but right now it just isnt fun.. Id rather go back to SWTOR or get MechWarrior Online.
i played the objectives, you still end up behind the zerg in terms of glory, sorry to say, its something they should fix, but atm its the way it is.
and daoc pvp SUCKED SO FREAKING MUCH, good concept, poorly executed
again, stealth doesnt gaurantee a downed execute, anyone that can use a non target required stun/knockback/daze, etc, will still interrupt the thief.
is it surprising that the dirty fighters main form of group support is stomping?
stealth isnt even the best way to net a stomp
condition damage more ofthen then not kills the thief tho.
ive specced survival with as much cond removal a thief can have as wella s regenning hp in stealth, conditions still destroyed me
if you finish number 1 or 2 on yoru team it just means you run with the zerg and tag everything before it dies.
ive never had a problem with targetting strangely
and stealth doesnt garuantee the thief getting a execute. any non target required interrupt can hit him
@sprawl, that doesnt have nearly as much to do with something being unbalanced as you think, at least not in the way that you think.
if u see a lot of x class its because it has a low skill florr, or a higher reward vs time put in.
the initiative system is a interesting reason, it both promotes brainless activity when taken at face value, and when you dig into it more it allows great flexibility.
the entire concept of initiative is that we can forgo CD’s on our weapon sets, and use the same spell back to back in exchange for a sort of future tax and risk that if we do this too much we wont be able to use any weapon skills for a little bit.
a thief is used often not cuz its OP, but because its easy to play and see results (tho not nearly now as it used to be, most thief specs now have to ride a fine line between dying and avoiding damage)
PW thief, you try to cast PW while in melee range your gonna eat it and probably die before the animation wears off (has happened to me multiple times) that is why they precast before using things like steal, essentially skipping the wind up animation. its also why they pair utility skills that disable target from moving, cuz PW stun lasts less then 1 second
death blossom thieves literally have to keep moving or die, they stop jumping around for a second they are dead
backstab thieves rely on that backstab for there damage, it also requires long CD’s, high ini cost abilities, positioning (and any smart player isnt gonna sit there and let us get behind them) and very careful, methodical playstyle.
VS what everyone complained about before
HS add infinity
I’ve noticed this as well.
Also, if i use my number 1 swing and hit the thief/mesmer, shouldn’t it instantly pull them out of stealth? Or do they get to stay in stealth regardless of damage taken, and can only be revealed by attacking/running out of stealth time?
Thanks.
stealth in this game does not braek on damage (tho we still take the damage). it only breaks when the timer runs out (3-4 seconds unless you stay stealthed in the shadow refuge circle for its full duration) or when the thief lands a attack.
I do not know if this is intended but on my thief, i fi miss my backstab, i do not get put out of stealth, i only get put out of stealth if i land my attack.
also thieves arent suppozed to be able to re-enter stealth for 3 seconds after exiting (revealed debuff)
but sounds like this rendering issue needs fixing
i think too many people have there own interpretation of how fast people should die in pvp.
i have survived more then 30 seconds in a 1v1, however i was survival specced not glass cannon (i did relatively poor damage even as thief).
however i dont think anet wants these long matches, they want quick fast paced matches that require reaction as much as premeditation.
lot of mmo players i think may have poor reaction skils :P
So whats the surest sign of a broken/op/unbalanced class???? Anyone....
in PvP
Posted by: Wolfe.3097
actually that doesnt mean OP, it just means the class can be specced and played tooe asily vs its reward.
you may say “well how is that not OP”
cuz in high level skilled play, that advantage those classes have dissolve faster then sugar in water.
this simply means if anything needs to be changed its the calsses complexity, not a direct nerf.
CnD does have infiltrators strike, just not with pistol whip, i was taling about 2 diff weapon sets there mate, they just both use the same strat to nail there casted ability.
but either way it was a minor nitpick.
This Wolfe guy is hilarious, Dont nerf my class bro, I want to stay OP.
if you nerf it ill still beat you to death with it /shrug
no, i simply try to bring the voice of reason to a bunch of people who think they shouldnt have to worry about a stealth dps oriented class in teamplay.
ive seen multiple times people say “i cant see the thief in the middle of a fight” ya you can, you just need to learn the game enough to discern something from the chaos.
hell i even said haste needs nerfed (all haste effects not just the thief skill haste), sword MIGHT need nerfed, but not very much, just a tweak.
and the only issue with backstab damage is how things stack (150% damage signet, 20% more damage when target is below 50%, you can even get armor runes that ups this by 10-12% i believe, and certain minor traits increase damage by another 10% given certain conditions. combine with might stacks which a thief can apply i think 6 before he gets the backstab off….its a stacking issue. I dont use assassins signet, and only give myself one stack from steal trait, but i am fairly glass cannon specced, i do take soldiers amulet tho for more hp. my backstab crits never exceed 8k in group situations, and thats on glass cannons, try 4-6k crits on things like warriors or guardians. and thats on a non spam skill.
you can say its op, but here is what i know, thieves are about two things, avoidance, and damage. we dont have a lot of direct team support (black powder imo being probably the best support we can offer along with shadow refuge). its a fairly selfish class. im for balancing, just not nerfing into the ground like the crybabies want.
actually i think it goes, precast PW, then infiltrators strike. honestly the precast ability is what makes things like pistol whip and CnD (for landing stealth) useful.
also ive never managed 2 unhasted pistol whips on a target even when specced into poisons using devourer.
Retaliation only kills glass cannon specs. A decent condition ranger will eat up a good ret guardian and laugh at him.
whats funny is a good condition spec also stomps all over thieves too (we have very little in ways to remove condition damage)
Snuff i think your misenterpretting this thread by coming here posting people dominating with dagger in the offhand using cloak and dagger.
cloak and dagger is a good skill, and when you compare strictly the stealth use of CnD with BP>HS its a tradeoff, you trade less ini cost for a risk vs reward scenario (hit hte cnd and gain stealth, or miss it)
meanwhile BP>HS has no way to miss.
you could argue then that a skilled player is greater with a dagger offhand, but then you wouldnt be looking at the whole game (from pvp perspective)
BP and headshot simply offer more utility then dancing dagger and cloak.
this is in terms of spell interrupts and stomping/rezzing players, a big, and at high level of skill, a VERY important part of play.
headshot can interrupt a stomp outright, and can be done from range, can interrupt important casts.
BP can almost completly negate a enemies survival attempts in a downed state, far more effectively then CnD stealth stomps.
in terms of rezzing its also clearly superior.
in group fights it is again, superior.
honestly BP when used appropriately (as it has its own weaknesses/drawbacks) is probably the best thing since sliced bread.
Wolfe I stopped reading after this “your assumptions are faulty. firstly, a thief that pistol whips cant backstab, and the reverse.”
1. Steal
2. Pistol Whip
3. Swap
4. Cloak and Dagger
5. BackstabIF there still alive Heartseeker for the kill, and it guarentee’s a kill REGARDLESS OF ANY TARGETS TOUGHNESS you can use Inf. Strike if the target moved in the slighest before you swap.
But it is 5 clicks and thats usually WAYYYYY to complex for a rogue to use to kill someone
proof you dont play thief worth a crap. offhand is shortbow or go home buddy. id LOVE to use a diff offhand, but shortbow offers too much. not too mention youll be spreading you utility skilsl thin trying to cover both ends, making you a one target kill then run away and hide (which may infuriate people but has little impact on team play)
its viable, posible, but is also redundant for anything but mindgames.
weird, must be on the other players screen, on mine i instantly appear. i dont really see how this stops you if you can see and target them tho
Wolfe maybe if we ignore the ton of stuns, dazes, and teleports at a theifs disposal we could pretend they die fast.
Not to mention the ability to go stealth 4 times in a fight is WAY more OP’d then perma stealth, I’d rather allow them to travel the board stealthed then enter stealth 4-5 times in the middle of combat, what a way to blow class design.
stuns…uhm, PW .25 seconds. uhm…i dont think we have another stun
daze…tactical strike (requires sword, and stealth)…i dont think we have another
teleports we can have a lot if we skill for it, sword mainhand, then shadowstep, and maybe a signet. im actually somewhat surprised Sword mainhand players dont share dont activate shadowstep cd when they use infiltrator strike.
we do have a immobilize (devourer venom) and if we use our elite skill a stoneform which is like stun+daze kinda.
but how does any of this prevent us from being killed in team play? aside from the retreat mechanics of infiltrator strike and shadow step? you shadowstepping TO someone doesnt drop target or prevent damage being done. immobilize dosnt stop attacks. and the daze/stun only stops one person from attacking.
no what makes for our survival is our dodging and our stealth.
not too mention that stealth doesnt prevent us from taking damage.
any attack that can be used without a target can still hit us.
in fact its kinda funy, a stealth focused thief biggest weakness is condition damage (we only have 2 ways to remove tem, one is a 30 sec cd heal, the other is a 45 sec cd trait that is uncontrollable)
meh this thread thing is bugged.
CyrealKylla, no skills do 17k dmg to good players, those skills get +5x dmg to Kittens.And the guy who said Moa Birds can’t Dodge needs to stop posting cause he doesn’t know anything about GW2.
Any player running a dmg spec can get 17k burst in 3 seconds regardless of their skill lvl even with 3k toughness.
It’s called being rooted then pistol whiped @ backstabed. This game was meant for group PvP that’s why the game balance is destroyed when you add one class that can burst that easily with no skill curve.
If your such a skilled player then you shouldn’t mind it taking alot more button clicks then 3 to kill someone. Or are you so bad you need to spam 3 buttons to kill someone.
your assumptions are faulty. firstly, a thief that pistol whips cant backstab, and the reverse.
also pistol whip, may be slightly OP, but it requires a lot of setup (and nearly all yoru skills complimenting you for setting up the PW).
backstab requires you blowing 4-9 ini to enter stealth depending on traits and weapon sets (or use a CD, 30 sec-1min). then when you see the thief disapear (stealth lasts 3-4 seconds, we cannot stealth out of view and have enough time to get into melee to backstab), you do what? id strongly suggest you MOVE YOUR FREAKING BUT, beacuse i gaurantee hes coming towards someone wit a dagger for a backstab. if he doesnt get a back backstab, it does about half the damage. maybe less.
backstabs are very high risk vs high reward, its easily thwarted by anyone with an ounce of ability. cant tell you how many times i go invis and NOBODY near me, even the person im attacking, tries to get away from where i am, they stand there and take the backstab some reason.
the guardian thing is a problem with retaliation, just like most out of line dps for thief (and some other classes) is haste effects (way OP).
and urdriel, stop bein ga troll man.
initiative is designed so we can “spam” as you call it. it gives us the option to use our damage or utility back to back, at the expense and risk of bein gable ot run out of being able to do anything (no initiative) for a few seconds.
i also find warriors and to a slightly lesser extent rangers/engineers to be balanced. they may haev some tweaking to skilsl and certain weapon sets, but they are hardly weak.
necros and eles tho, need buffs imo
Seems like people try to ignore the elephant in the room.
What this guy said.
So… How about that weather?
In all seriousness though- You can’t just nerf thief dps like that. Thieves rely on high, fast dps to kill players before they get killed. Thieves die extremely fast if they are being focused.
Every class dies extremely fast when focused.
I don’t get this idea that, oh i have stealth, so i need to be able to instantly kill players or my class is broken.
Its why rogue classes in general unbalance and break PvP in every game they are in.
They should be control and near the bottom of DPS.
Do other classes do high dps? Sure, but you also see them coming from a mile away and can strategize from it.
id say your right…if we were talking about a diff mmo
fact is stealth lasts a very short period of time, and only lasts longer if you chain CD’s which is innefficient.
thieves are designed to do a lot of dps and have mobility, in exchange we have little defense, as al our “survival” relies on simply not being hit at all.
bottom of dps? ok, if i can keep you locked down for 8 seconds or more then sure, why not. but people dislike being controlled even more then killed.
basically there is never a time where you “never see the thief coming” becuase it lasts 3-4 seconds! you see a thief disapear, take evasive measures, avoid the backstab, your golden. its a high risk high reward playstyle that is easily countered and cannot be spammed.
we cant keep using blanket statements like “everyone dies fast wen focused” ya, wen 8 people focus something its a pita. what about 2? 3? maybe 4? its a bit different. stop a thief from moving, he dies just as quickly as a elementalist
Why don’t we all just switch to WoW? I mean the dependency on stunbreakers (or death if not specced for it or if it is on cd) easily rivals the dependency on WoW’s pvp trinket…but WoW has at least diminishing return.
Before you get a knot in your pants, I just wanted to say that it is weird that developers don’t learn from previous mmos and that it also forces cookie cutter builds which incorporate many stunbreakers – which reduces variety of pvp specs
Sidenote: I wonder how a thief, warrior etc would react if a ranged class head a skill called “headshot” along with a ranged stun which takes away 50-75% of your life if you do not break the stun and perform a dodge in time.
first thief has headshot (does nearly no damage ironically, also proof you havent even tried a thief) but ill bite regardless.
id say, glad i have dodge, also, nerf haste
wait…i already say that (nerf haste)
You got P.whip’d, and Backstabed!
Every other player saying that can’t happen, didn’t happen blah blah blah is playing a theif and totally FOS!
They’ll also say that this can’t happen and you can avoid it but if your rooted or frozen there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Same thing if your stun breaker is down and you are stun’d.
They’ll tell you to L2P so they can click 2 buttons and kill people, ohh the irony.
first of all PW does require a lot of setup (thats why people who play it hae most of there skills revolving around landing thekittenthing) and i dont see many backstab builds utilizing any stuns or anything as you know…that would break there stealth.
put down the pitch fork
Blind causes you to miss. The bug being referred to is a problem with rendering the Thief after they lose stealth. They become targetable, but you just see the red arrow over empty space.
im still under the impression its some sort of lag/client issue. tho it could be a bug.
incorrect shukran, reveal is a debuff.
if the game working perfectly this is how stealth is supposed to work.
we attack, if the attack lands, we are INSTANTLY put out of stealth and gain the revealed debuff, where we cannot enter stealth again for 3 seconds (i think its 3, might be 2)
anything that allows the thief to attack continuously without breaking stealth is either lag or a bug.
id want to see the math on whether its useful to use that much ini just for the chance to proc things honestly. tho i agree about the evade portion, hence its in my post.
go ahead take away stun of PW, but then let us move while we cast it. PW should then interrupt a cast.
mikali dude, you really dont understand thief, ini is for flexibility, so we can choose to do damage or choose to use our utility back to back.
if you do yoru suggested change to how damage is distributed you are either gonna make them useless or make them even more overpowered
as far as thieves being in stealth for multiple hits, thats either lag or a bug/hack. thieves are unstealthed the moment they hit someone (or there timer runs out) a thief can extend stealth duration by blowing more stealth CD’s before there current timer runs out, but they cant re-enter stealt after exiting it for about 3 seconds (cuz of revealed debuff) i have heard of it happening but from what it seems is to be a bug as well (revealed debuff not being applied)
thieves are about 2 things, mobility (thru stealth/dodging) and damage (ini system lends itself to this)
granted haste effects arekitten and probably shouldnt exist
@oxbaker, i currently play both wow and guildwars 2, i mean currently, active subscription. wow is way less balanced, tho animations are done a bit more recognizeable
ok first,
@trikitten, your GREATLY undervaluing black powder, maybe its cuz of the way you play as that can have a affect on your weapon set choices among other things. First i dont understand your comment “you will be focused in melee range” how is that bad for black powder? and unexpected for a melee class? do you solely play pistol mainhand or shortbow? not to mention that if you are in melee range and have black powder down, the enemy is gonna almost constantly whiff. melee range is actually the best place for a x/p thief to be because of blind powder. you see a warrior incoming, put down BP, watch him whif his charge and hundred blades while you auto burn him down.
biggest issue is ranged can still get you, as well as aoe, you cant really help the aoe, and obviously you play differently vs ranged. but beyond that, both shadow shot and blind powder blind the target you have as wel as its additional effect, so it can mitigate ranged attacks to a point.
honestly x/p excels at 1v1 and close range group support with BP fields used to mitigate melees damage, and setup up rezes and executes. its often how i do it. kill something (or at least make it run away) then alternate between supporting the way i described and killing people. i can honestly say i have a impact on a group fight farther then just dpsing someone down.
@metaphorm, i really need to get the word out on this, i have tested condition and power based builds with death blossom, the amount of damage death blossom does is absolutly pitiful (i mean letting it run its full duration) when your power specced, you are straight up better autoattacking, the only thing daeth blossom gives D/D power builds is a ini cost evade.
again, unless your condition specced, death blossom is NOT WORTH THE DAMAGE vs your other damage skills.
still a good evade tho if your out of dodges.
also CnD, i love it, but in personal practice it fails compared to BP>HS. simple reason is it requires melee range and can miss, BP>HS doesnt require either of those and your partially protectd in blind powder. i used both extensively, and maybe its a playstle difference but i cant help to find /p offhand to be more effective.