Guild Wars 2

what your post boils down to is “i dislike how thief works, and want it to work more like the rest of hte classes”

now you may not see it that way, but if you look at your post, its what it is.

you wanna know why pistol whip doesnt need a CD? because its S/P ONLY damage oriented move.

this is what people seem not be unable to get thru there heads

many other classes in this game get both not as much utility as a thief, and there moves that do have utility are often doing damage as well.

if there was a Cd on pistol whip, it would mean thieves would have no burst, period, because head host, black powder, and infiltrator strike are not doing much damage if any at all.

this is how the spec is designed, when you need to do damage you use your damage skill, other then that you have to manage it enough to use your utilities when you need it.

but ot make it short, your SUPPOSED to only have one real effect attack per weapon combo as a thief, its intended.

ya i think you should keep the glory youve accumulated from the other team, maybe get a small bonus if you volunteer to switch when the option comes up.

Seraki.2753:

I have a lot of problems with the thief skills as well. Some I don’t even use cause they move the thief out of range or do the 2ndary part of the skill initially instead of after the first. The Class is clearly at least partially bugged. Now to people who pretty much do nothing but group activities this may not be apparent but for soloing not all of the weapon sets are working right.

ive soloed to level 24 so far (been focusing on pvp more)…what bugs? i mean, im sure there are some

elementalist is weak in pvp its already known

i mean, i love this game, its arguably a game that feels tailor made to what ive been looking for. so much good, and while im not a fan boy (obviously there are issues) i fear for this games future….not for the same reason as the majority tho.

actually my fear for this games future extends from many of the players posts on these forums, while there are many that make sense and really cant be argued against, many others would just serve to make this game, in my opinion, a LOT worse.

makes me sad that a game, with so many aspects i enjoy, is being threatened by my fellow players who “again imo” have some kind of ineptitude to see future consequences or want the game to play like a diff game theyve already played.

/sad kitten

eSsXiV.9423:

Dumb idea of having auto-level 80 at the start and not even earning it..

I personally think this game’s pvp is the same thing over and over, no point at all. Not even rewarding since you can’t even use pvp gear in pve.

these two things

oh my god

i think i hate you

i know im supposed to be supportive and give constructive criticism, but please, leave, the fact that you dislike thsoe two things makes me fear that if you EVER have a impact on this game…the one game i finally feel tailored to my tastes, your going to destroy it.

please

how is daggers OP?

it can thit multiple targets like sword can

has less mobility

heart seeker nerfed 20% damage and its thresholds changed.

really, how is it overpowered?

i tend to feel that way about guild wars 2 PVE oddly enough…s/tpvp i start at 80, i can freely change my specs and gear loadout, and quickly go into a game of pvp and get out without making hours upon hours of grinding and commitment.

I then go back to pve and feel like a deflated peon trying to find my next xp fix.

@ Xaphen, LDB relies on such a specific build for tons of initiative and initiative regen. itd be nice if specs that didnt spec exclusively for LDB build could use it without crippling there choices.

just so long as we keep the risk vs reward aspects of skills like CnD

godkittenOP, i liked your post, and was agreeing with it in my head until i saw it was a well veiled bash on thieves.

S/P really doesnt have that much survivability, especially a burst build one. even tho whip is supposed to evade, ive had more then once where im at full hp, i steal into say 3 people, then immediatly haste/whip…i die as i get my second whip off (which contrary to popular believe doesnt gaurantee death for those 3 targets, even if some got low). thats right, in the span of about 4 seconds i go from full to dead while pistol whip “evading” lol

and no i didnt expect to take on those 3 and win, but i had my team right behind me, figured i could get some damage off and stealth/dodge…nop, this is why i dont use whip builds much anymore, that and unless your using your utility skills to support landing your PW, your gonna have trouble ever landing it.

the problem with zerging is because there isnt enough reward for playing the objective, they get more reward zerging sadly.

as for the skills…i disagree, i find them to make sense and almost all to have a specific use if not then multiple. but i play a thief who has more utility skills then most classes.

people are still having trouble with HS thieves?

i have no stuns on my bar

im ok with the stuns

/shrug

Valk.4013:

HS definitely needs an increase in initiative cost. Right now thieves have the best elites (hi 8k damage while invuln to damage and unable to be cc’d, or thieves guild that can take someone from full to half health practically instantly) the best mobility and survivability due to said mobility. Anet didn’t want a perma stealth, but the way it is now stealth also lasts too long for the small initiative costs (due to gaining initiative back when stealthed) CnD definitely does not need a reduction. It needs an increase. Thieves have the highest damage potential with scaling damage attacks, great cc, great gap closers, the best get aways, IMO the best elite skills. As I see it thieves need a rebalancing so that a good thief is a good thief, not just someone who can spam 2 skills and be successful. There is a reason why just about every tourney team has a thief or 2 on it, they offer more than other classes. Thieves should have to choose with their initiative costs either high burst or high survivability. Not be able to have both.

considering HS damage was nerfed 20% and the the thresholds changed…really when do we get BOTH high burst and survivability? the only button i can think of is leaping death blossom, and those conditions can be cured.

honestly your post has quite a few misconceptions about thieves.

and lol at best survivability, guadian would like to say hi. or even a sustain engineer.

stealth costs are fine, CnD costs 6, and only costs 4 if you land the CnD and get the stealth, its risk vs reward, we land it, we get 4 cost stealth, we dont, we waisted half our initiative bar. CnD further has a cast time with a obvious animation, the argument “dodge it” is much more applicable then heartseeker.

as for other stealth costs, black powder>HS costs 8! so thats 6 if you successfully do the combo, quite expensive

other ways to stealth are traited steal (lasts 3 seconds with points into shadow arts)

and our heal/utilities which are 30 second Cd and 1 min Cd’s respectively. and the only one that is longer then say 4 seconds TRAITED is shadow refuge, and only if you stand in the circle the entire duration (which smart playres should be aoeing in anyways)

no the real issue is lag

Dee Jay.2460:

I do think Heartseeker should cost 4 Initiative.

Leaping Death Blossom is the ability that needs a cost reduction.

yes for the love of god reduce cost of LDB, its rediculous at 5 for what it does right now.

im gonna be nice and not jump all over you OP cuz i think your approaching this from a better standpoint then other people.

there are a lot of backstab thieves currently, if you dont see them its because they are in stealth “lol”

just becauase you dagger/dagger doesnt mean your stealth based backstabing or HS spamming. there are weapon sets, then there are traits that further flesh out your playstyle.

with shadow arts talents your CnD only costs 4 when it lands which is very acceptable i believe.

as for the part where you want CnD to work even if you dont hit them…i disagree

this is why, the game isnt like other mmos or rpgs, you dont just have a innate % chance to miss or anything, if you miss its because you either too far away or your enemy did something (dodge) to avoid it.

therefore CnD is risk vs reward, you have to land that hit to get your stealth. taking away that aspect simply cuz you dont like it shows that you want the class to be easier because you feel you cant get past the hurdle that is landing a CnD reliably.

same concept for the shadow arts talent really, its only gonna give the two initiative back if you land the hit on CnD (because you wont go into stealth without landing the hit) which means a miss is punished.

you may think “why am i getting punished for missing! thats not fair1” really it is, i mean, look at other classes that are Cd based, they miss with there attacks, there CD still happens, so they have to wait to try and use it again.

its ally remarkably balanced (tho maybe not perfectly)

sorry i cant help but not agree with OP. I illustrated why i disagreed with a number of his points, many of which boil down to “i dont like how x plays i wanted y” or wanting the dumbing down of skills (cast times taken away, other skills working regardless of the hit landing) which imo would be terrible

Ty for a new take on using stealth in a rpg, i find it works VERY well

Honestly i have very few qualms with the class.

some pathing is a little buggy with certain skills

my only hope is not listening to the players who want to dumb down this game (take away cast times on certain skills, make other skills work regardless of whether you hit or not, etc)

i love the risk vs reward both pvp and many of the thieves skills have.

if i had anything to say AGAINST the thief is that our downed state is pretty…well..trolly, and i cant help but feel like P/D and maybe S/D need buffs in some way.

cant wait for this game to evolve a bit and see when players find how useful a non glass cannon build is too

Mrbig.8019:

agree about venoms.

Agree about the glass cannon stuff ( i’ve tried many thief builds not revolving around damage, like soldier amulet- perma daze S/D, simply to find that i would obtain more results by simply going with berserker amulet), we’re innately designed to deal damage.
Only that.

Agree about thief overall design. The class is a big gimmick, that really should be redisigned from the start ( don’t worry, it will happen now or then). But people love gimmicky stuff, and that’s why you get people answiring stuff like " i love my thief, you have no clue" and bla bla bla.

Just play something different, the thief will meet better times in the future.

ive4 played multiple classes in this game, if you think thieves are gimmicky other classes are gonna make you cry

but sword doesnt have backstab, i <3 backstab heh

wow, i can honestly say your either a poor player, the thief in this game is not for you, or both.

i played a rogue in wow (just cuz you played feral druid its practicallyt eh same concept) and the thief is so much more thief like then the rogue in wow.

the stealth in this game is beautifully done imo, it doesnt feel “clunky” at all to me, and i use a stealth based build to abuse it to great effect.

our stealth heal has a cast time, so? its our most powerful heal, and allows us to stealth. the cast time is the risk factor in using it, if you dont want risk vs reward, the entire initiative system isnt fo ryou even.

i have not experienced the problems with shadow refuge that you have, tho if you attack it takes you out of stealth.

I hear many people say they have trouble landing CnD, but honestly ive been practicing it long enough that i rarely miss with it, and it only costs me 4 initiative if i lands (again, this is not wow, you dont get refunded for missed attacks, its risk vs reward and it promotes SKILL and forward thinking)

thief is flat out more mobile then any other class, can dodge more, can escape/move faster then practically anyone with shortbow.

you dont understand the nature of thieves if you claim we just spam. any weapon set has one main damage move, this is how the thief is designed, the rest if for utility, this results in us have a deeper back of utiltiy then other classes. it just so happens that when we get to the “kill it now” phase we use the one ability. the issue is the nature of 8v8 pvp (when it was intended for 5v5) and wvwvw all very zergy so you can ride the zerg train and just focus on dpsing down someone to the exclusion of your utility skills.

your not invincible when you stealth, condition damage still hits you, aoe moves hit you, non targeted moves can still hit you.

5+ seconds stealth? thats just OP, thieves can already escape almost any situation they want.

the cast time on the heal skill is again, risk vs reward, sorry you want to dumb down the class further

again CnD is risk vs reward, why you need everything handed to you and not rely on your skill to land your hits and time your casts?

what worthless thief skills? they all serve a specific purpose and many are very useful in fact. flanking strike is about the only one i think could use changing (needs a damage buff and better tracking imo)

thieves survivability is NOT in reducing damage taken, but in avoiding it. i made a spec i use involving mobility and stealth and blind. I have great mobility, and i have 1v2 and survived group fights to the last man more then once. and my damage while maybe not 3 second kill one trick ponies (they suck after the Cd’s are used) its damage is enough that someone isnt gonna stand there and tank/heal thru it.

also many people think mesmer is OP atm, i reserve judgment but thats what people say, so bad class to compare.

death lotus has a pretty wide hit box, you dont have to be next to them to hit them with it. also USE YOUR DODGE, it avoids damage while your performing it, my spec has 3 dodges and access to death blossom, coupled with blind and stealth i rarely get hit.

i agree with flanking strikes pathing as its a bit wonky, but the fact you name thinks like HS and death blossom shows how little you have tried to learn or how you refuse to learn the way these skills work.

the shadow refuge comment, thats smart play by them, its not a “haha you cant do anything to me now”

i would like a internal cd of sorts so i dont unload all my poison charges on the same target in 2 seconds, since they dont seem to stack in intensity or anything, but other then that with the nature of this game the poisons are actually very useful.

you can ignore me all you want, but fact is this class is MORE like a ninja/thief then any other mmo ive played (and ive played quite a few), hell the rogue in wow is DISGRACEFUL in terms of rogue definition, specially right now.

your entire post is you whining wanting skills to be more braindead and remove the risk vs reward for using them. you want a easier game, and might i say, wow is def easier.

Expansive.3716:

I just don’t get it with some of you.

In one sentence you say you’re disappointed Anet is listening to “whiny” posters, and then in the next sentence you say this was a necessary adjustment?

First off, there were legitimate claims about HS being a bit too cheeser friendly. Anet did a perfect job adjusting and it definiately “could have” been worse.

Secondly, Anet created these forums to allow us to give feedback and discuss what seems to work and what doesn’t work. Anet took a look, evaluated what would be a good compromise, and then adjusted accordingly.

I give Anet props on this because it wasn’t so much of a spontaneous reaction, but rather to bring out better gameplay from a good profession.

from a pve perspective its just plain bad damage nerf with absolutly no compensation to a spec thats already hard pressed to perform well in dungeons.

from a pvp perspective its fine.

so its 50% bad

and in the name of balance, that means its 100% bad

i find my build not very initiative intensive so i rarely am out of it, so the extra 3 from trickery seems pointless to me (for this build)

and @ Pirhana seems like that build would be much more…initiative intensive, but what are your skills? how do you deal with people smart enough to try and make room when you stealth so you cant backstab them? what about people who try to keep you crippled? with D/P you also dont have CnD, making it even more initiative intensive to get into stealth.

id have to see a breakdown of your traits and gear, then give it a shot myself. seems like you would run out of initiative too easily and not have the same mobility as i do outside of shadow shot.

i disagree, i like the short spvp matches

i do want to know how good the hounds are

Ruggy.7819:

in pvp at least, I don’t think any thief build can rival how fast a properly built backstab focused thief can kill a single target.

sword/pistol is lethal for sure.. but it has downsides, just like every other build.

S/P is all well in good, tho isnt the focus of my debate, its the application of DB in non condition based builds.

my build is more for sticking to the target and surviving while doing respectable damage then glass cannoning somine in .5 seconds then dying cuz you have no hp, toughness or mobility.

perhaps we are talking different avenues, im talking mainly a pvp perspective, pve i dont care much whats viable and whats not. doesnt seem as important.

with my spec the only initiative support i have is my spells that put me in stealth refund 2 initiative, essentially making CnD cost me 4 instead of 6.

my build requires the abuse of stealth to both blind my foes and get in backstabs.

explain to me a time it would be better for me to DB (other then the evasion when im out of dodges) rather then CnD (for my backstabs and blinds) or HS (for closing the gap to get my cnd off)

maybe if DB costed 3, MAYBE if it costed 4, but 5 is too much for too little. the fact that it has no additional utility other then damage (which im already putting my initiative to better use) and evade (which i have 3 of, and more often then not im too low on initiative for DB by the time im out of endurance with my spec)

i dont want to look at just damage, but damage per point of initiative

edit: saw you updated your post

1075 for 5 stacks…wait…db applies 3 stacks, how are you getting 5?, either way, im not “missing” out on 1075 damage, im using that initiative to get more damage then 1075 thats for sure.

bwillb.2165:

Wolfe.3097:

Honestly ive noticed shadow refuge truly be a refuge for me with shadows rejuvination. more hten once i was low on hp and my heal was down so i put down shadows refuge and sat near the outside of its radius while players tried to find me, healing me up nicely.

as for the dredge, i havent pve’d a whole lot, they immune to blinds?

Yup, every last one of them is completely immune to blind.

heh, well, maybe keep it as a spvp/tpvp build, wvw id rather use shortbow, probably in dungeons too. from what pve i am doing its condition based P/D+SB cuz i can kite melee elites

edit: would love to get more peoples impressions on this build, its still working great for me.

Classic.4072:

Daggers allow for more flow and flexibility, and DeathBlossm is great even if your not a condition build. DoT’s are still dmg, just because its 1900 and not 3500 doesnt mean you should just spam HS. and the best thing about Dag OH is that you get a Snare and a means to enter stealth, beit for the Backstab or to finish them off in stealth.

honestly i disagree, the ONLY good reason to use DB as a non condition spec is for the evasion (when your out of dodges)

it costs 5 initiative, even in a backstab build thats not initiative intensive that is a lot to blow on a skill.

dmg is dmg is misleading at best. even with the HS nerf id rather CnD or HS then DB, more damage per cost of initiative, better utility.

basically when your power specced, DB is only used for evasion, otherwise every single other skill on your bar has priority over it.

Shooopa.5632:

Wolfe.3097:

and I think stealth and backstab is how your supposed to use dual daggers, beacuse you cant backstab without a dagger in mainhand, and you cant CnD without dagger in offhand.

not too mention in order to make a build that can use death blossom more then maybe 2-3 times you need a highly specialized spec with very specific traits/skills.

its a fun spec to be sure, i enjoy it when i play it. but dual daggers is still split between power/crit and condition because of death blossom. you spec one the other is crap.

You can backstab with pistol/dagger though – black powder shot followed by heartseeker stealths you.

which costs considerably more and takes more time then CnD

its a bit more expensive to get into stealth cuz of no CnD, but it has good utility, i like it. tho atm im using D/D

Shooopa.5632:

Wolfe.3097:

how so? the only skill that relies on condition damage is death blossom, heart seeker and backstab (and cnd) are all power reliant.

its a problem i think dagger needs some rework to identify itself. be condition or power based, not have skills that rely on both, it just means youll have skills that arent worth using.

Death blossom is how you’re supposed to be using dual daggers mostly. It not only inflicts massive bleeding but puts you behind your enemy so they can’t counterattack right away. Then when they loose enough HP you can use heartseeker to finish the job or just let them chase you until they bleed to death.

and I think stealth and backstab is how your supposed to use dual daggers, beacuse you cant backstab without a dagger in mainhand, and you cant CnD without dagger in offhand.

not too mention in order to make a build that can use death blossom more then maybe 2-3 times you need a highly specialized spec with very specific traits/skills.

its a fun spec to be sure, i enjoy it when i play it. but dual daggers is still split between power/crit and condition because of death blossom. you spec one the other is crap.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Wolfe.3097:

Shooopa.5632:

Depends.

Have you been putting points into your first trait path for physical damage? Dual daggers kill by causing massive bleeding to the enemy which is condition damage.

how so? the only skill that relies on condition damage is death blossom, heart seeker and backstab (and cnd) are all power reliant.

its a problem i think dagger needs some rework to identify itself. be condition or power based, not have skills that rely on both, it just means youll have skills that arent worth using.

No thanks, Dagger/Dagger is fine. The only ability that needs rework is C&D, not Leaping Death Blossom!

disagree, i love C&D! if anything needs changing on it, decrease the initiative cost.

i understand, your a condition D/D deathblossom specced thief and you enjoy it. i have a set for that too, i enjoy it also, but it doesnt change the fact that D/D right now is split, and weaker for it. your either power/crit and ignore death blossom outside of a ditch effort dodge, or your condition focused and your heartseeker/CnD/backstab hit for crap.

it needs fixed, just cuz your biased one way doesnt mean it doesnt need fixing

Thadren Calder.1397:

Here is an example of auto attack and pistolwhip along with the stats i was at.

your hp is so low i have to imagine you die in the duration of your pistol whip animation in pvp.

try D/P? would give you more utility, not real CC, thieves dont have much baseline CC if any.

Shooopa.5632:

Depends.

Have you been putting points into your first trait path for physical damage? Dual daggers kill by causing massive bleeding to the enemy which is condition damage.

how so? the only skill that relies on condition damage is death blossom, heart seeker and backstab (and cnd) are all power reliant.

its a problem i think dagger needs some rework to identify itself. be condition or power based, not have skills that rely on both, it just means youll have skills that arent worth using.

Except stealth/backstab has actual setup time and skill involved as opposed to lock-teleporting to your victim 5-6 times from stealth.

im just saying, when the masses start crying about something, they rarely stop just cuz they have been given a bone. whatever tho, ill keep playing my thief. the build i use is effective for me and hopefully doesnt see enough play for people to whine about it.

Ouzhyr.2175:

If heartseeker and death blossom spam are the only two strategies you know how to use… well maybe it’s time you considered playing a more child-friendly game. I hear Sims3 is pretty fun.

the ONLY other damage move a thief has with that weapon set is backstab

and blossom only works with a stat spread that makes heartseeker and backstab worthless

lets be clear

power/crit builds use heartseeker/backstab, they only use blossom as a last ditch evade

condition uses blossom almost to exclusion of everything else.

please understand the thief class before you open you mouth

derry.2789:

There’s other weapon sets…

not 100% sure what your trying to get at here…

you saying dagger mainhand shouldnt pve?

awfully shortsighted of you

WereDragon.6083:

When an entire combat style is based around 1 ability it needs to be changed, IMHO this forces more skill into the thief class and less Flavor of the month.

which means all dagger mainhand thieves are going to be abusing stealtha nd backstabbing more now /shrug

incoming nerf on stealth/backstab

while i didnt use heartseeker for more then a gap closer or execution, it bothers me that anet made such a kneejerk reaction based on (bad) player outcries.

this also makes me less likely to use dagger mainhand in pve as its already brittle and lacks decent utility there.

but if anet keeps doing things like this, eventually all the calsses will be crap cuz everyone will have cried about something.

Urban Monkey.1580:

At the core of every and I mean EVERY thief build I have seen is the spamming of a certain skill. The builds differ in traits, healing and utility skills but in the end the instructions of how to play the build are always: “…and then spam skill XXX”.

I by no means trying to bash thief players. I am just thinking that because of the way initiative is set up you are basically forced to spam your best skill.

Now I know there are some situations where other skills are used but all other classes force you to use your other skills because of the cooldown. This makes for a more varied gameplay IMHO.

So, is it fair to say that the class mechanic of the thief is officially “spamming”?

as far as damage is concerned this is largely true. every thief weapon set has one skill mainly for damage, the rest for certain situations.

D/D for example,
1-auto attack,
2-heart seeker (only real spammable form of damage),
3-death blossom (only good damage for condition builds, which use it in exclusion to heartseeker),
4-dancing dagger is good damage, but is mainly used for hte bounce/cripple,
5-cloak and dagger does good damage, but is utility to re-enter stealth.
6-then you have backstab for dagger mainhands, not spammable as it requires stealth but there are specs that revolve around it.

this is just one example, with the initiative system we have one real “damage” move typically, and the rest are utility

Honestly ive noticed shadow refuge truly be a refuge for me with shadows rejuvination. more hten once i was low on hp and my heal was down so i put down shadows refuge and sat near the outside of its radius while players tried to find me, healing me up nicely.

as for the dredge, i havent pve’d a whole lot, they immune to blinds?

take mesmer runes, anything to increase daze duration. make a S/D daze build. not perfect, butkittenfurstrating for other players

my problem with it is it splits D/D builds into 2 seperate builds, death blossom condition builds, and backstab/heartseeker power builds.

its not really worth it to the power build as its 6 freaking intitative just for a evasion and weakkitten bleed. while i love playing the death blossom thief, in order for D/D to be a whole weapon set it needs adjustment.

sorry ive been at work all day! i redid the link.

gearwise i typically do divinity runes with berserker neclace and jewel.

weapon i use accuracy (5% crit), blood (lifesteal) and fire on shortbow (fire aoe)

gives me close to 2.9k power, 45% or more crit, and 17k hp roughly, with i think 2.2-2.3k toughness.

thats weird, im pretty sure i have autoattack enabled and me stealing doesnt start me attacking at all.

Im tired of all these glass cannon builds that have no REAL mobility or survivability to speak of. i want to be in the fight longer then 2 seconds then run away or die.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#Mckzzc9MMFnvMMrLaM9MxxaVoqokRV

Its a stealth based backstab build, but instead of going glass cannon, i go for something a little different.

I call it the blind thief because of the trait i take “Cloaked in Shadow”, everytime i stealth, the enemy near me are blinded. this greatly helps the team, and your own survivability. this has to do with the mentality vs a stealth thief. when we come out of stealth, the players instinct is to immediatly burst or CC us in some way, the blind causes that crucial spell to miss. waisting precious time before im back into stealth.

the rest of the traits are from hours of personal testing to find “what works” vs “what works on paper”

hence shadows rejuvination, healing me 350-500 a tick while im in stealth, makes my stealth heal heal for a LOT and makes shadows refuge even more useful.

fleet shadow, many people might laugh at me taking this, but its no joke, vs a smart or erratic player with movement speed buffs, it can be hard to land that backstab within the 3-4 seconds you have. this has made all the difference in the world for me in that department.

fleet of foot, outside of this, withdraw is the only other way for a thief to remove cripple from ourselves. and since i want all the stealth i can (and the stealth heal is very powerful) taking this absolutly frustrates players as they cant keep me snared reliably

pain response, ive found this incredibly useful, it removes the same conditions as our heal, on a 45 second CD, and applies regeneration. you just have to try it and try it without to see for yourself how much a difference it makes in your survivability.

the last 10 points are completly up to you, i took thrill of the crime as its a nice group boost and a boost to your own damage. you could equally go 10 points into critical strikes for more crit starting out and gaining fury when target is below 50% hp, or go into deadly for steal to apply poison (healing reduction is always nice) along with steal doing some damage. they all are effective in there own way.

with this build, i may not get 12k+ backstabs, but i have more then once soloed 2 enemies who thought they could keep me down, only to find me in stealth a lot of the time, to find there attacks missing when i do appear, and to find my health constantly going up even while they try to bring it down.

you have to space your defensive options tho, often after i come out of stealth, i wait a second, then dodge (evasion frames) so to further lessen the time they can hit me while im out of stealth. and you have to time your restealthes around your revealed debuff (lasts 3 seconds i believe)

if youve read this far, i could say more, but just try this build out for yourself. to quote a mesmer who tried to kite me while i was trying out this spec its “kinda f****** dumb”

so long as the elo system doesnt result in players stuck in “elo hell” then im fine with it