Guild Wars 2

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Hey all,

The Reflexive Hammers trait in retribution is going to be changed after BWE3, before launch. Right now since it uses projectiles that hover around you, they currently don’t work underwater and I think it no longer really fits the line as that is more about damage, plus it muddies the FXs around the character when the actual hammers are around you.

Soooooo…. I wanted to throw out an idea I had about a new GM trait for retribution to place it and see what you all think. The trait would be more dwarf stance focused since we don’t have a dwarf stance specific trait.

• It would give you some way to proc Rite of the Great Dwarf like at some percent health trigger or something and then make Rite of the Great Dwarf (both proc and the skill) have reduced condition damage taken as well while allies have the buff.

Let me know what you think.

What do you think about looking at Mallyx again? D’: Roy… look at our tears Roy….
Over nerf much….
- plays mad world song – D’:

Tasao.4623:

Love the Mallyx changes. Never liked the self-condi spam, but I did enjoy Mallyx more than Shiro, Ventari, or Jalis by far anyhow.

I’m very skeptical about the poison trait, though. Poison does really poor damage and from what I recall, Rev only applies poison on the last hit of the mace auto chain, and only for about 3 seconds at a time. I don’t see how that 3 second poison tab and 6 seconds of poison every 20 seconds are going to be remotely competitive.

If you traited right Self-conditions never hurt you because you gained so much resistance. You wont like it now because now you have nothing to keep your safe and with the condition copy removed you will quickly find your DPS against other condition builds is lackluster. You you can get all the resistance in the world but thats about all the profession is good for now.

Anchoku.8142:

I would really like Arenanet to review both vulnerability and might. There is just too much, especially vulnerability. Both could be deleted and replaced with direct damage in a lot of skills.

For Necromancer, I would be fine with deleting vulnerability from axe and increasing damage as appropriate. The same is true for Blood is Power, which is just a “turbo button” for dps. Everyone love hitting the turbo button but, at the same time, it is a boring mechanic.

I think the game could do with a lot less of both those conditions so that, where it is found is important, again. Maybe Ranger, Engi, and Revy should be the only professions with vulnerability stacking and War, Guard, and Ele are the only ones that can do might and the numbers of ways to generate might and vulnerability are reduced to key support skills.

“War, Guard, and *Ele are the only ones that can do might and the numbers of ways to generate might"*

#HOWABOUTNO!

Robert Gee.9246:

There have been a lot of questions coming up recently from several different profession forums regarding the use of soft-CC effects (cripple, chill, slow, etc) on bosses with the new Defiance system in HoT. We have a solution in the works for this but we wanted to make a post to explain how it’s going to work.

A hard-CC like a stun, daze or knockback will deal direct damage to a defiance bar, lowering it by a flat amount based on the duration of the CC. As an example, a 2 second stun on a 6 second defiance bar will take off 33% of the bar.

A soft-CC like chill, slow, or cripple will deal damage over time to a defiance bar for the duration of the debuff. Additionally soft-CC effects will apply to the creature for the purposes of triggering traits but not apply their debuff effect. As an example, chilling a foe with a defiance bar will cause their defiance meter to degenerate over time and place the chill debuff on their status bar, which will allow a Reaper to benefit from the damage reduction effect of the trait Cold Shoulder, but it will not affect the creature’s movement speed.

The exact numbers on the degeneration rates for each type of soft-CC are still in flux, but we hope this helps answer some of the questions about the viability of certain elite specializations in HoT.

EDIT: Even if the defiance bar is not vulnerable to CC, the conditions will still apply for the purposes of triggering traits.

Hey Robert So what you are saying is chill damage will take effect on these bosses from Reaper’s Deathly chill trait. Also when the bar breaks Will the creature then become slowed?

Also another soft CC no one talked about was Blind. When I did testing with the break bars Blind application actually degraded the Defiance bars as well. Can you confirm and give feedback on this? Its one of the soft conditions you didn’t mention.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

ronpierce.2760:

Zenith.7301:

Now, if they can flip Soul Eater with Deathly Chill, it’d be great.

While I personally would be happy with that, they won’t due that because they don’t want the weapon and utility traits to be exclusive, and it’d be too limiting on the adepts, which is understandable. Just not real likely to happen.

I think you meant Chilling Nova. Zenith was talking about Deathly Chill, the Grandmaster which makes chill do damage haha

I see a problem with this suggestion though, none of them is grandmaster tier worthy in my opinion. Deathly Chill has the 5 max stacks problem and Soul Eater would need something else to leave the master tier.

This means chill damage would be reduced. Reaper is the only profession that can make chill do damage and since it was buffed its rightfully fitting fora grand master. To put it back down to th the master slot would mean that have to make it less impactful so it won’t be as effective. Besides Decimate defences too gud in master trait spot anyways …. ._. Deathly chill is a big game changer and should remain in the grand master spot. It fits well there.

anduriell.6280:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Forgetting Executioner’s Scythe? We have a buttload of Chill in Reaper’s Shroud thanks to that ice field and finishers. It’s very, very easy as a Reaper to have high Chill uptime.

Executioner’s Scythe only apply 1 second of chill that last the same as the Stun it applies. I think the chill there is just to give a nice touch to the skill more than actual utility.

In my tests i couldn’t get any uptime with chilled in gameplay, no theorycrafting here. The base of our chill uptime is the Chilling Scythe but that AA chain is so slow that your target is out of reach most of the times. I think i could land it like 10 times in pvE none in WvW.

Thats why the duration would be better lol. You can get a max of 50% chill duration meaning one second turns into 1.5 3 seconds turn into 4.5 and 5 seconds becomes 7.5 seconds if you can land your chills that’s your problem don’t go suggesting things like chill on crit which would come with a horrible ICD. There will be builds out there that counter chill its gonna happen, I’ve aready seen it happen. For people like that you just have to realize you cant fight them easily. But chill on crit at a 33% chance is not the way to go.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey all,

Since the Scrapper reveal I’ve been up to my eyeballs in Druid development.

In my off-work hours I’ve been watching the forums and wanted to reply to some of your concerns and discuss some design intent.

• The hammer is intended to have good damage output and heavy proactive and reactive survivability options. Good damage does not mean best damage. No weapon or skillset should be the top of everything. Since the livestream recorded video I have made a few modifications to the damage numbers of the Hammer autoattack combo, Electro-Whirl and Shock Shield, increasing the autoattack damage, decreasing the Electro-Whirl damage and smoothing the damage distribution of Shock Shield while adding an additional strike.

• As many of you spotted, some of the Medic Gyro’s numbers were undertuned on the recorded gameplay from the livestream. The personal initial heal had already been bumped up a chunk to provide a more competitive option prior to the livestream itself, but we were unable to get the updated build in time. The initial heal is currently around 4.5k.

• Bulwark Gyro has a decent pool of health and low defense. If you and several allies are taking heavy AoE then it is going to die quickly; that is the situation where it should die quickly. This is a skill that has the potential to be very strong. I’ll be watching feedback closely, but I am holding off on any changes for now until you’ve have had the chance to play with it.

• Function Gyro requires a target. It appears at the target’s location when summoned so long as you have line of sight to create more gameplay options (across gaps or around obstacles). This summon happens nearly instantly so that you can be more reactive in resurrection situations and proactive in stomping situations. I am reviewing the recharge and duration currently.

That’s all for now!

Im not concerned with any of that. Im concerned with a unkillable Cele healing build that revolves around stacking all the heal options Scrapper will be able to use.
Regen boon 112 to 200 ish
Healing aoe’s roughly 200-400
Healing with swiftness per second at least 104 as shown in the stream
Healing with super speed at least 400ish as shown in the stream
Backpack regen roughly 120ish

If they route for all of these the scrapper will be healing easily more than a warrior per second and that can be gained without even counting the super speed healing.

Im wondering if some of these will need to be toned down or if damaging builds suffer when traited for these things.

This is something no one has touched on yet and I want to know has this bee modified at all or is it still as it sits right now. I don’t main engi and i have to say i don’t like fighting them so im going to be the elephant and the room and throw this on the table. Forgive me engi players but someone has to >.> Nothing personal..

ODB.6891:

ZDragon.3046:

Blood magic is healing

Blood magic is vampric healing…which also implies a damage component…that just happens to be extremely weak…just like the healing component. A narrow perspective on this class is what has been limiting it. Robert is doing a much better job, so I feel this is an opportunity to at least speak up.

Axe is bad but I dont think we should be loaded with just Shroud modifiers. IF anything we only need one good one not 3 or 4 of em. Reaper is selfish and built to be that way. If you want something thats more of a team player you might want to seek a different profession to fill that role.

I’m not just talking about shroud modifiers. I also mentioned general ones like spiteful talisman and unholy fervor. You guys keep defending the current selfish nature of the necromancer as if its a positive thing. Shake off the stockholm syndrome and strive for something better. This is an opportunity to actually “play with the cool kids” for a change. Reaper gives us options we have never had before…let go of the safety net and open up to possibilities. Not saying that any hopes won’t be crushed on the stone wall of PvP/WvW, but its worth a shot. By the way, I do have different professions…I don’t need anyone to presume to tell me to re-roll or not to play something I pay for. I also don’t need anyone to tell me what I should or should not be able to express on the forums. That sentiment is never helpful. It doesn’t hurt anyone to express desire for improvement.

Unholy Fervor would be a 10% into a grandmaster trait that gives 20% under 50% its kind of really strong and if it was unbound from axe. We will see axe changes come you just have to wait. Robert already talked about it. Be sides deathly chill’s surprise spike proc tends to be worth more than a 10% ever would be. A passive spinal shivers at 50% can knock a player down to 20% in pve this is not so good however and I understand why you would want the 10% damage. Sadly I think unbinding it from axe would result in a nerf to close to death. :C

Robert seems to be very key on where necro sits as it is and any bonus wont come without a nerf to something else in its place. I think we should wait on axe changes before we look at changing this trait.

I have no problems with a nerf, so long as it is a balanced nerf. Especially if it spreads out % damage options…versus having them primarily concentrated in close to death. I would gladly trade some survival for some damage. I have been a big proponent of dropping the hp sponge mechanic of DS/RS anyway. I understand others like it, so I think an ideal solution would be to have a damage trait that takes away the hp sponge mechanic in favor of allowing active defenses. I’m fully aware that is a pipe dream though.

I agree the vamp healing is a too weak. Maybe if it was based off of a fraction of the damage you were dealing then it could possibly be better? But then there is the problem that it might become too strong.

spiteful talisman
This should just be redone into another modifyer its highly unlikely that you will fight a foe even in pve that does not have boons. And it requires you to have a focus in the offhand to get that bonus. Sadly as the only focus trait in necromancers pocket im not sure it can really bet twisted around for more damage.

I hold onto the axe changes thought. I think we should wait and see what comes down the pipe with axe changes before we start trying to adjust that trait. It wont hurt to wait for a few months without 10% damage 1000 X 0.1 = 100 damage obviously you know math its pretty basic. I just dont think getting a free 100 damage in pve is going to matter right now. If you really wanted that 10% I would just take an axe anyway for the time being. axe 2 still is decent damage and if your in shroud you wont be missing out on the 10%. If you cant give up your awesome dagger auto dps for the axe then im not sure what to tell you. You have to pick something till we see the changes come. But im willing to bet we see changes to the weapon sets before we see changes to some of those traits.

ODB.6891:

ZDragon.3046:

I partly agree with this only partly because if they start building to pve then pvp and wvw becomes a steaming pile Thus you still end up unhappy, for the most part it seems your concerns from these changes are a minority compared to the majority which feels that there is not a big issue with how the traits sit.

So you’re honestly saying that something as simple as % modifiers to shroud, as an alternative to self might, would make pvp and wvw a steaming pile? That’s pretty much all that it would take to make RS damage equivalent to other professions attacks. Do other professions attacks dealing decent damage make pvp and wvw a steaming pile? Are you saying that shroud is a superior mitigation tool to blocks/invlulns/evades….because that’s what other professions have…while simultaneously dealing the damage we can only dream of…without having to get enemies below 50% health. How have you measured this majority/minority? Was it from the absence of all the players who have rerolled and given up on necromancers due to nearly 3 years of neglect? Those players who, for obvious reasons, have ceased to post on necro threads? Was it from the pvp and wvw players who do continue to play necromancers…since those are the areas they are actually still functional? Of course the pvp and wvw players post more now. That doesn’t mean there aren’t a ton of players who would love to play necromancers/reapers in PvE should they actually be made desirable. Right now, PvE is a steaming pile for necromancers/reapers. That’s one of the reasons there is so much interest in the reaper to begin with. You make these assumptions on limited to no information about what players want…based apparently on your own predispositions, but the number of necromancer players who try joining PvE groups every day indicate a different predisposition. Those same players that come to the forums and whine about getting booted from PvE groups are expressly indicating they are not happy with the wvw/pvp only focus. A myopic perspective of pvp/wvw being the only thing that matters in this game is part of the problem. This expansion and its content has cost ANET a lot of resources…and guess what…a huge part of that is PvE content. One would think that they would take this opportunity to make a desirable PvE build for this profession since they already have desirable PvP and WvW builds for it.

Other than the fear into chill and the chill on bosses an champions i have to say im sorry that the majority rules over this. I’m honestly happy about it. I don’t want to see good traits that have use in pvp or wvw removed for pve

Again, this assumed majority. You also have this unnecessary assumption that for something to be improved, that something gets removed. Bad development is bad development. Yes, they have had a tendency to do that with this profession and several others in the past….always thinking that to fix a problem, they need to make another problem. Robert has done a great job of not doing that so far, so I’m definitely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now.

Which is why i say things likely wont change. I wont retract my steaming plie comment because ts true. You cant please everyone and to remodify for one thing means something else is lost. I don’t think damage modifiers on shroud is a fix to necromancers problem. Boons at this point are worth more than most % damage modifiers yes.

Are you saying that shroud is a superior mitigation tool to blocks/invlulns/evades?
hell no
Many of these things are lacking from necromancer but I doubt they will be added onto it. The better adjustment for this would be to simply strip some of the said tools from other professions that have way too much of them. Necro is lacking and behind yes, but if you think adding a block or two will fix the problem you are mistaken. Evades ar out of the question (it does not fit the profession.) Ivulns need to be toned down (mostly on mesmer but thats about it.) Necromancer could use better tools like improved life stealing and maybe a block or reflect skill for projectiles. Shroud is a temporary sub health bar which requires you to give up alot to go into it. It could be adjusted to be better, but we know we won’t see that happen anytime soon. Suck it up and face it. If you don’t like my assumptions feel free to comment all you like but it won’t change my mind.

I make the majority calls based off of what I read on the here in these post. I make the assumption that Robert would not make another problem to fix a problem thats not what i said, you said that. Im simply saying that in the past when we ask Robert about changes he has responded if with his reason for not doing so and if he say he would look into the change what would have to happen in response to that change.

I do assume that something would be removed because 8 times out of 10 in the past something is removed when changes are made. Reaper is one of those few moments where we are not seeing that happen with necromancer and im happy about that.

A simple example one would be an speed increase on DS life blast he said that to do this the damage per shot would have to be reduced because he was happy with the dps output of necro as it was at the moment. Thats not creating a problem thats, called trade off.

Robert does a good job at managing necromancer but he is not quick to make his calls and i don’t think a few changes for pve will outweigh what the game is based around (WvW and PvP) Because the moment it did you will have people saying that necromancer is not worthy in pvp and wvw. I am allowed to assume things just as much as you are.

“You make these assumptions on limited to no information about what players want…based apparently on your own predispositions”
^
you say this to me and do the same thing every time you post on this forum. Everyone does this. I could flip this 6 ways to Sunday and turn your own words right back on you.
Trust me im sure necro could use love in pve but that gain is not without some cost. In other places. Its clear the game is made around (WvW) and you sould come to face that fact. The changes to stability, the removal of bouncing bullets on thief, the changes to burning and poison stacking. (that last one is questionable to pve change) but i mean come on, these are just examples man. I love to play necro in pve but i don’t cry over not having 1 damage modifier that another profession may have. Not every profession is going to hit like a mac truck. Not every profession is going to take hits like a tank.

Necro has alot of changes that need to be done base line more than trait wise. Now get off my back. lol :P

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Timortal.8204:

I would REALLY like the Reapers Elite shout to be useable under water, so that necromancers are not stuck with the condition heavy Plague underwater elite.

Bumping this. There is absolutely no reason why we can’t use this skill underwater (Jade winds is a carbon copy of this skill and it does).
Please we need a new underwater elite!

VENNY I THINK I KNOW YOU

Also BUMP +1

ODB.6891:

Percent damage modifiers for shroud…we need em. We’re stacked with self might…presumably to feed blighter’s boon, but this is redundant in any group setting where we’re getting force fed might from other players. We have crit chance coming out of our ears. We’re loading up vuln stacks on targets that are already loaded up with vuln stacks from other players. What we need are percent damage modifiers for shroud specifically. Preferably ones that start before the target is half dead…meaning our teammates have done most of the work already. We currently have close to death…at the end of spite…which wastes the majority of its trait potential on the above mentioned redundant things in PvE. I skip unholy fervor on purpose as that is limited to axe only…arguably one of our worst weapons…and doesn’t work in shroud judging from its description. We have strength of undeath…which is great…except for the tiny % modifier despite the fact that it stops working once we are below 50% life force. We have spiteful talisman…that depends on our target not having any boons. Defiance/unshakeable is a boon…that I’m pretty sure we will continue to see on all PvE bosses. That’s it….those are the extent of our % modifiers.

We have some prime candidates for % damage modifiers (shivers of dread, chilling nova, chilling force). These are all reaper specific traits, so it shouldn’t be an issue making them specifically buff RS damage. It should be a bonus to use our profession mechanic…not a loss. Strength of undeath just really needs a numbers boost. It would really be nice if the the 10% from unholy fervor was unbound from axe. I would love it if blood magic actually had some % damage modifiers…that would actually provide some justification for taking it. Those weak siphons need some help and those minors in blood magic definitely need something damage wise attached.

Blood magic is healing
Axe is bad but I dont think we should be loaded with just Shroud modifiers. IF anything we only need one good one not 3 or 4 of em. Reaper is selfish and built to be that way. If you want something thats more of a team player you might want to seek a different profession to fill that role.

Unholy Fervor would be a 10% into a grandmaster trait that gives 20% under 50% its kind of really strong and if it was unbound from axe. We will see axe changes come you just have to wait. Robert already talked about it. Be sides deathly chill’s surprise spike proc tends to be worth more than a 10% ever would be. A passive spinal shivers at 50% can knock a player down to 20% in pve this is not so good however and I understand why you would want the 10% damage. Sadly I think unbinding it from axe would result in a nerf to close to death. :C

Robert seems to be very key on where necro sits as it is and any bonus wont come without a nerf to something else in its place. I think we should wait on axe changes before we look at changing this trait.

ODB.6891:

Zenith.7301:

Since there’s no indication of buffing reaper shroud auto to not be a DPS loss over just autoattacking with greatsword let alone Gravedigger spam <50% health, the only PvE changes of note here are Soul Eater, which can now happily take the place of Reaper’s Onslaught since reaper shroud damage is bad in PvE.

The shouts will not be used in PvE, and developers seem happy with this outcome. I won’t bother since it’s clear by now we’re being told this set of utilities are not being balanced around PvE concerns.

The minors are still pretty terrible. Shivers of Dread are borderline useless in PvE, with the low availability of fear on power reaper to begin with, and 3 seconds of chill on fear being a mediocre effect, especially since bosses and champs are immune to Chill.

The change to Augury of Death will do nothing for PvE. I don’t understand how a 150 hp life steal is going to help against 10k+ damage from sniper shots in PvE. It follows a tradition of undertuned life steals in PvE. And since shouts are pretty much useless in PvE and will NOT be taken over Wells, we can move on to the last PvE relevant change.

Chilling Nova. A 50% damage increase on a 103 damage tooltip increase will still make for inconsequential damage on a 10 sec ICD in PvE. It will remain less damage than a single autoattack from any of our weapons, and the target count of the nova does nothing on PvE content where bosses are single targets.

And once again, we have no appropriate adepts to choose from in PvE. Augury of Death is useless because shouts are useless. Relentless Pursuit is useless in PvE content — the guardians and eles will be aoe removing conditions all the time in a group.

So we’re stuck with Chilling Nova, which still does a mediocre damage effect, and centers around a condition that any of the enemies of note, be they bosses or champs, are IMMUNE TO IN PVE.

Disappointing changes to be honest, especially with no buffs to reaper shroud autoattacks for PvE. We are balanced around PvP and will be stuck with a class mechanic that is a DPS loss, and by default Reaper’s Onslaught will be unattractive because of it.

None of these changes are particularly meaningful for PvE, the game format the class needs the most help with.

100% agree.

I partly agree with this only partly because if they start building to pve then pvp and wvw becomes a steaming pile Thus you still end up unhappy, for the most part it seems your concerns from these changes are a minority compared to the majority which feels that there is not a big issue with how the traits sit.

You say eles and guard will remove conditions from you all the time so the movement impairing reduction trait is useless in pve. Reaper is obviously a selfish character and is not built on the fact that you will always have teammates by your side.

We would end up with skills that pretty much work like ’Blood is power" Which are completely pointless. I think the chill aspect could be adjusted or worked out some way so that it will become more useful against bosses and champion monsters, but honestly that would be the only fix that needs to be made concerning chill at least.

I do think the trait that says when you inflict fear infect chill needs to be fixed. With the few fears you have access too in reaper it might be good to make the chill that’s inflicted 2 to 3 times longer than what it currently is.

Other than the fear into chill and the chill on bosses an champions i have to say im sorry that the majority rules over this. I’m honestly happy about it. I don’t want to see good traits that have use in pvp or wvw removed for pve

anduriell.6280:

The changes look amazing , thanks Robert!!

But i still miss chill application on crit (33% chance?) because right now in game there is no way of a reliable source of chill and i think with the cast times of the GS t would be a great help.
A little changes in the minor traits would be good:

• Shivers of dread : apply slow (1 sec) on Foes you chill (1/2 sec ICD).
• Cold Shoulder: apply chill on crit 33% chance 2 seconds. Remove the longer chill duration,

This could make the landing of GS skills a bit easier and actually possible.
Also having a reliable source of chill will help to make the reduced damage from chilled foes actually be useful.
I think 1 second of slow plus 2 seconds of chill 1/3 of the time you crit is not much but helps.
To compare how much could a Reaper proc the minor BAreber precision in Curses proc bleedng the same way.

EWWW NO GET OUT WITH THAT!

leave the chill duration alone whats wrong with you lol. You say there is not enough chill in reaper. You are crazy and clearly dont play necro.

The duration is needed and its nice to get it for free as a minor trait. Have you tried using chill type runes and sigils and possibly weapons outside of the greatsword? Clearly have hardly touched reaper if you dont think it has a good source of chill generation.

The problem with what you ask is that it would limit the chill bonus only to builds with lots of crit >.> so in other words all those nice condition players out there would lose out on the benfit of chill. And so would you. Some one puts weakness on you and you lose your ability to crit by 50% and all of a sudden you cant apply any chill at all.
Slow is a a mesmers condition and has no true place on reaper so how about we leave the duration as is and you just explore using other options than just the greatsword auto to chill foes.

Flumek.9043:

Hello.

Great to see fixes done so fast (suffer too much life force, animations and dash movement corrections. At this pace the reaper may even come out without any bugs at all

The changes look ok, tho reaper and chrono are solid enough, that this is more of a revision check.

So, at this point, the only thing causing problems is base necro. Inb we see double greatsword builds , ill list the most important quirks, bugs and issues:

• starting with zero lifeforce
• losing -23% of lifeforce on respawn
• weapon swap sigils on regular DS
• signets, leech procs, well of blood and other self applied stuff that doesnt work in shroud
• outside healing in shroud – wrote it seperate as it needs consideration and lets go step by step
• regular DS#1 attack speed – blinds are everywhere since june23 , same DPS but over a faster firerate would bring it alive and maybe less QQ about sudden oneshot procs
• axe
• scepter
• focus, (even offhand and #2 #3 dagger tbh)
• corruptions, the extra condi trait and all healing skills

Dream solutions:

• like revenant energy, lifeforce settles on fixed ammount out of combat.
  It just removes the extreme min/max scenarios, bypasses the -23% respawn bug, and doesnt make blighters boon pre-fight spamming a MUST.
  I suggest an equal , easy to umderstand 50% (maybe down to 30 but remeber it also drops and doesnt carry into next fight)
• axe#3 and dagger#5 and their traited counterparts are blast finishers.
  The payoff is you need to be very careful blasting stealth with a 600 radius aoe and the traited ones can only happens under your feet
• any axe & scepter improvements like range, dps and reliable lifeforce increase
• spectral pull and greatsword pull become RELIABLE PULLS. Dodge, block etc counterplay stays but not SIDESTEP and random obstructed

I know this is mostly base stuff but better mention it since you do have 2 other lines beside reaper ill write more if i get a good reaper only idea

LOL alot of this crap is not a solution. *
*No
Life force is not like Revy’s energy. All of our skills have cooldowns and do not use life force thus there is no reason to lose life force when going out of combat (Stop asking for nerfs).
No
Im all for more blast finisher but if you have to trait for them then no. There is not any “Payoff” as that example is hardly reliable because necros do not rely on stealth.
Also
Im pretty sure the weapon swap trigger for sigils with RS is intended as the scythe is a weapon.

If you cannot generate good life force within the first 5-10 seconds of a fight then you dont know how to necro and are doing it wrong. You shouldn’t have to spam blighters boon and its certainly not a MUST

Things i do agree with.
Yes
Corruption skills need a revamp and spectral pull needs a faster projectile speed.
Yes
DS auto could be faster with all the blinds and cc now added to the game.
Yes
Scepter and Axe need changes, but Robert already commented on this and said its being looked at for future balance patches.

I hope you are not one of those mesmers who says necro is too strong. >.> The changes are fine as they are (concerning reaper)

Scott.7163:

Like many others, the changes to Mallyx has ruined that stance for me, especially the elite. You’ve gutted it because you think people can’t co-ordinate, which if they can’t they SHOULD be punished, it’s a team game, work as a team.

By the same logic you should be changing Necromancer corruptions skills.

Everything else was spot on.

I STRONGLY AGREE WITH THIS

Mallyx got kitten d and meanwhile necromancer sits there with butt loads of corruption skills no one’s ever gonna use (But that’s Robert’s department)

Single handedly ruined Mallyx stance.

Its value is pretty much trashed now. 1 torment for 6 seconds won’t amount to anything for the energy cost of the skill. At this point Roy you should just do what others have been suggesting if you plan to gut demon stance this way. Take its resistance and share it with other stances or give other stances condition removal. Mallyx is not viable with these changes. Too little benifit for such big changes made here.

Unyielding Anguish
Added a cooldown (that needs to go away or the energy cost needs to be droped to like 15 energy) and removed the displacement (I understand this but for what it got in its place not worth it) for a 1 second chill and same torment it already had.

Embrace the darkness no longer copies conditions?

who made that choice and why?
Its one of the few skills that has no explnation as to why it got stripped the way it did and when it got stripped it got no new effect to it. The torment was pretty much already there. The energy cost didnt go down and the 10% bonus was already there. Can you tell us why this was changed?
1 torment stack is not worth the upkeep of this skill Im going to need you to add some conditions to this or increase the number of torment stacks appied per second to make this of any value. Now that Mallyx no longer has a displacement it needs something to make itself viable. You need to give embrace the darkness stablity or make one of the other skills a break stun.

I guess we will see nothing but Glint and shrio now…. ;/ shiiiighhhhh

Adamantium.3682:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

quaniesan.8497:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

I do agree each class needs to have a counterplay. Don’t you think that it also doesn’t have to be he should be virtually helpless against it though. Conditions are no longer like they were when the game first launched, they are now more prevalent, easily reapplied (in matter of seconds). Especially in PvP when virtually every classes do condi now, it means that non-Mallyx will be weak against everyone. I do think condi removal on legend swap should be increased to one, each legend should have at least one way to remove condition, be it a weaker one than other classes.

I don’t think that is entirely true, as an example engineers don’t run much condition removal in PvP as they have limited options similar to revenant, but still aren’t helpless in PvP.

Well now you’re right in my wheel house Roy!

Most competitive Engi builds use Alchemy, which even if you change nothing about your skill bar can help tremendously (relative to baseline Engi). You get the 75% health Elixir B proc and clear. 25% health Elixir S proc and clear if you grab it. Transmute every 15s. This is without using any elixirs or Elixir Gun on your skill bar. A skill bar that already has one of the best heals in the game that removes 2 condis every 15-20s.

Engi is among the worst at dealing with conditions no matter how you gear, but they have a chance. My argument is unless using Mallyx + Corruption a Rev doesn’t really have that same chance, at least I don’t think so. I believe increasing the amount of conditions removed on the traits/skills that have that functionality would help a lot and I would like to see where that puts us in BWE3 before we start seriously asking for more sources of removal.

To add to this point engi is really good at applying conditions more so than most professions. They do it better than warriors, rangers (in most cases), thief (in most cases), even necromancers (talking application not xfer) only applying conditions with skills that are not reflects.. About the only profession that does it better is mesmer because it just spawn and shatter spawn and shatter spawn block spawn and shatter. I say honestly Revy needs no more removal at least on shiro, mallyx, and glint. If anything gets more removal is ventari and the other stance. AND even then the removal should be minor so not to devailue Mallyx.

Valfaros.6908:

It’s right that some classes need to skill a specific traitline in order to keep condis off them. I woundn’t complain about doing that but you also need to take mallix. That means you have 1 mandatory traitline and 50% of your utility (what should be the strengh of rev) is also mandatory.

That’s just …..

Considering you get 2x as many utilities in combat as any other profession anyway i dont get why anyone should really be bishing about that. People are being to greedy at this point and just want a all in one package with revy just using glint and shrio. Hints why they are only asking for condition removal now.

I just hope the Devs dont give into this crying and start devaluing mallyx because of it.

oh 50% of my utility is gone if i use mallyx…. umm if i had 2x as many slots on my necro or my warrior Revy would not stand a chance lol. People should be glad that its the only profession that gives you access to 2x as many utilities in combat with their own cooldowns and cost separate from each other. ITs a major strength to revy. Glad im not the only one who sees this >.>

Kidel.2057:

Mesmers have many utility skills that clear conditions and they can simply slot them into any build. Not a big deal.
Revenant however has to give up 5 skills to just equip Jalis heal.

Revenant is very good at doing multiple jobs from other professions in one build that other professions cannot do without changing their whole builds. For example, Revenant can face assassinate like a thief or deal big blows from range like a ranger all in the same build. This is all in one build without even considering stances and traits. I do not agree with the argument of being able to swap one slot and it making a massive difference. If you want to have that potential then play one of the other professions. Right now I feel like revenant is nearly where it needs to be. Everything that everyone is suggesting is trying to devalue one of the other trait lines or stances.

No one seems to want to use mallyx when facing condition and wants more condition removal or resistance to be added in other places that dont make sense to have them. This profession was themed around how it was built and doing the things many people are suggesting would blow the theme of revy right out of the water. Its almost like everyone wants it to be a lackluster profession as simple as guardian or warrior. Finally we can see something very different with a different playstyle come into the game and before its even released people want changes that devalue what it stands for and how i was planned to be played.

I suggest people experiment with revy more as i feel like most never left anything other than shiro and glint. I saw very few mallyx users and even less ventari users. Shrio to me is too plain and rather boring. I like his weapon set but his utility screams boring. Its good for catching people who try to run which is what he is intended to do but other than that nothing a thief cant already do.

Black Box.9312:

ZDragon.3046:

Black Box.9312:

ZDragon.3046:

posthumecaver.6473:

The trick is normally I don’t feel that weak against conditions, if you take retribution while you have to keep that stability up, you have to dodge alot and condi classes have really hard time placing condi bomb on me. They only manage it during the Crystal Hybernation mainly or Staff 4.

What disturbs me is how effective confusion is on Shiro and Staff because of multi hits but people claim that is because of bug, for ex sword 3 should proc one confusion active damage but it is procing 7 times now, if this is true then Ok then I don’t have too much to complain.

But if the multi hits from Staff and Sword will suffer from confusion then yeah I demand something that reduce that effect otherwise my Revenant will make Harakiri lots of times.

Most confusion condition applications dont last very long. Have you tried simply not attacking and waiting for the stacks to fall off? The three is now an evade which means you can go zipping around without having to worry about aoe damage. I think its prefectly fair to proc 7 times for each attempted strike if you chose to use the skill with confusion on you. Just as how the skill grants might for every time you hit not all 7 might stacks on use. Its fine as it is just don’t go zipping into the fight with confusion on you. If your using shiro then you should be playing like a thief not a warrior.

That defies the entire design of confusion though. Confusion punishes skill activation, whereas retaliation punishes hitting your enemy. Confusion is already much more powerful than retaliation, so there’s really no need for it to be encroaching on retal’s territory.

Its possibly because of the fact that the skill mechanic attempts builds might for every strike thus its possibly counted as using a skill. Retaliation is honestly too weak and its hardly noticeable anyways. Are you suggesting changes be mad to retaliation to yield the same result? Either way right now its a good counter play to a near 2 seconds of evades with good damage. The start up cannot be evaded or blocked making at least a few of your attacks promised to hit if in range. The only way to avoid being hit is to block with some skills not every profession has or burn 2 evades. The skill is very hard to counter right now and for that reason it should stay as it is.
“As you said it punishes activation” you activate the attack with confusion on you (Totally your call on doing so) Its not like confusion can be applied to you during the skill sense you are evading so….. it must have been on you before activation….. then you take 7 hits of confusion.

So really its not defying how confusion works now is it?

No, it’s still defying the mechanics behind confusion because you’re only activating ONE skill. Skills such as Hundred Blades, Whirling Wrath, and Blurred Frenzy are all multi-hit attacks, but they only proc one damage instance of confusion each. This is how it should be.

The proper counterplay you are looking for is with retaliation, not confusion. Retaliation punishes on hit, and confusion punishes on skill activation. Sure, retaliation could use a buff, but changing confusion to do its job instead is not the proper way to go about such a thing.

Those attacks do not evade while you do them. There needs to be a punishable counter to that skill. If it was not evading for nearly 2 full seconds, I could see your reason behind this. But as long as that attack is an evade I simply see the confusion as a counter to its activation.

IF they changed retaliation to actually be more punishing on hitting an enemy with it on I would then fully see your point with this skill. But when you have an attack that cant be countered with anything other than being out of range or condition damage well.. yeah. If you could evade the startup which would cause the attack to fail then I would also be fine with that.

Cecilia.5179:

Adamantium.3682:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

As over 80% of my 3000+ hours in game has been on an Engi, I certainly agree with and appreciate this fact. I only hope the Revenant is weak to conditions (outside Mallyx) and not automatically defeated by them.

Thanks!

Exactly. I don’t mind the Revenant struggling against condition builds, but as it is, they just straight up lose when they see more than three condis outside of Mallyx.

Its what mallyx is for. Giving more condi removal or resistance in other places devalues mallyx making it less likely to be used. If you dont want to be weak to conditions then use mallyx its actually a really good stand with great tools.

babazhook.6805:

More on the GM Traits and tying them to an F3 F4 F5 toggle allowing the ability to switch in combat.

Some suggest this is OP. I do not see that at all as you can only use one a time anyways and the usage of those are all still tied to overall endurance. People are just not going to burn off endurance to activate a dodge. Secondly they do not synergize that well together in a given build. As example a power build will get much less utility out of Impaling Lotus and a Condition build much less out of bounder. It pretty well a waste of endurance to use Bounder in a Condition build unless you just want that leap.

A hyrbrid might find more use out of using these two but there nothing wrong with improving the abilities of a hybrid. It more then likely a given build will switch between dash and one of the two other dodges.

I was intitially thinking there no need to change the GM traits themselves and they should just improved upon to bring them up to snuff but I have been having second thought on that as I think this can be a very practical and interesting way of adding utility to builds giving each type even more flavor. With that said I also think in making new GM traits here as those three different dodges moved to the toggle bar they can not be like other GM traits. They will be tied to the dodge toggle skills.

So as example I suggest.

Moving the Three Dodge types off the GM traits. Access is given by Enforcer training. These three now existing traits move to that toggle bar with current abilties (animations cleaned up).

Put the toggle bar on a 10-20 second cooldown. You must wait these seconds between switching modes. (alternatively as another suggested burn endurance to toggle)

Add three new GM traits each giving a different flavor that Kicks in when a Dodge mode toggled.

So just off the top of my head three GM traits might be.

Gain 50 endurance when changing dodge modes.
Daze nearby opponents for 1/4 second when changing dodge modes.
Transfer one condition when changing dodge modes.

That last one makes no sense for a daredevil or a thief. Xfer a condition? Really how about just Cure a condition.
Also you already have gain 50 endurance when you steal so that one is also pretty void. maybe gain some but a full free dodge just for swapping modes might be a bit much. “It counters your endurance burn on swap suggestion”

I still stand against haveing the option to swap between dodges in combat.

Mabe the only way I would agree with swap dodges in combat if its put on a heavy stipulation on it such as “gain the ablity swap dodge types when your total endurance is above 50%.” (This in itself would have to be a grand master more than likely leaving 2 other options that prevent you from being able to swap in combat but give some other type of beneficial bonus)

This means that if you have 30/150 endurance, you cant swap. If you are at 110/150 you can swap with no cost. So this way there is some counterplay for having those options in combat. By burning evades like a mad man you cant swap like one.
.

knyy.6427:

ZDragon nice try Necromancer. You can feel lucky for your Reaper elite spec. We try to give feedback and suggestions on the Daredevil which is by far not as good as your spec. I bet you didnt even play Daredevil and just say one more dodge is good enough as a new elite specs mechanic. No, its just not.
And its so obvious that the new dodges are a part of the mechanic. So in comparison to other elite specs mechanic, it should be in the first minor trait, hence F3-5 skills (or only one which switches through or swap between two with cd of maybe 10s).

Its been out for one beta even weekend, of course its not that great yet. Chill out (pun pun pun reaper puns for days) But seriously chill out and i actually spend all sat. night and sun. morning on daredevil. I like the physical skills even though they feel clunky as heck and staff sucks. >.> But as a thief you have the option of stealth you must consider that a major player into your profession. You can use this to get away and hide where other professions like a necromancer cannot. I’m still against allowing the swaping of dodges in combat maybe even if you got a box to choose which while ooc thats fine bur during combat no.

The dodge itself is not the main part of the professions mechanic. STEALING IS by far the main profession mechanic for thief, now if they gave you the option of losing the ability to steal for those three dodge stances by all means go for it. Since you want a New profession mechanic, Dodging and evading is only part of daredevil not thief overall thus you should see things like stance swapping buttons in combat.

Remember these specs will likely not be the only specs to come as time goes on. The next round necromancer might not be so lucky with its spec as were thief might shine. This spec may be based on dodging while others in the future may focus more on other things a thief can do.

Im not here to troll so please hold your tongue on accusing me of not even playing a class i actually enjoyed playing.

nekretaal.6485:

The staff is garbage once 4 + 5 go on their long cooldowns.

Until now this has been ok, because necromancers have Death shroud for proper ranged offense. (And a few patches ago, necromancer had a non crap scepter weapon to swap to).

This is a real problem, but the best fix is to fix axe + focus + scepter, so that you have useable weapons with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Also, not enough chill on 3, and too long cooldown on 2.

I agree that this is indeed one of the many problems. Axe and scepter first and before anything need to be re-done. Focus is questionable. I think some numbers revolving around cast time, need to be adjusted. Spinal shivers has great range and is good skill for what it does. The Focus 4 on the other hand its very unreliable, hard to see when its bouncing or not, and seems to glitch out very easily.

I think the easiest way to fix scepter is ad a block and counter to its 3 much like the mesmers. Block and counter while gaining life force and xfering a condition or two. IF you are not attacked then just gain life force. * idk this is an example*

The AA on scepter, if its going to stay slow like it is, needs to apply more conditions per hit. 2 bleeds > 3 bleeds >posion and torment repeat (i honestly dont know why the scepter trait does not do this ) 100% duration sucks when you only talk about 1 bleed > 1 bleed> 1 poison.
Just double the applications per hit its the same thing but better.

Scepter 2, well about anything can be done here. More conditions on hit would make an easy fix or just replacing it overall.

I like the idea of change but honestly an orb for an attack? You are kidding right? IT would move slower than the auto attack and be easily side stepped. Besides staff 3 4 and 5 are honestly some of the best weapon skills a necromancer can have. The auto is ok if you aim at more than one target in a line and could use some love the 2 does nothing and should be totally reworked to at least also apply torment or something. But other than that doing a staff overhaul sounds like a bad idea

Besides rober already said on the fourms he is looking into axe and scepter changes. So we know more than likely those will change. We should wait to see what happens with that before we start talking about reworking a staff. Scepter range is pretty nice it just currently sucks. Axe range sucks and skills also mostly suck.

Anchoku.8142:

If chill were changed to a fully-stacking condition, then the impairment may be something like this:
1 chill reduces movement (except mobility skills) by 10% up to a 50% cap and skill ICD by 5% to a 50% cap, except on bosses where it takes a stack of 10 to equal a stack of 1.

Then, every profession gets its chill application skills reviewed.

Ewww!!!!! no this is a terra bad idea. Chill should stay as a duration conditon not an intensity condition.

Intensity chill would mean that durations were much shorter making it overall much more ineffective.

Killyox.3950:

conversely a single chill takes about 50% of revenant’s #5 shield defiance bar ;p

yes 3 chilling bolts from a spin finisher will break a revy’s break bar these people need to see that chill is better as it currently is.

Chill helps degrade the break bar more than normal stuns and dazes. Chill application counts as a crowd control and so does cripple and blind. These are soft crowd controls but can be applied much quicky and more easily than hard cc’s FEAR, STUN, KOCKBACK

Stop whining about change everyone will be happy when you drop an ice field and spin on it breaking bars faster than any other profession can.

This is tested on player breakbars and its the only easy quick way I found to break the revy break bar before they could even finish healing. Besides the goal will be to break bars anyways the way boss fights happen are going to change its not going to be all about doing damage.

Black Box.9312:

ZDragon.3046:

posthumecaver.6473:

The trick is normally I don’t feel that weak against conditions, if you take retribution while you have to keep that stability up, you have to dodge alot and condi classes have really hard time placing condi bomb on me. They only manage it during the Crystal Hybernation mainly or Staff 4.

What disturbs me is how effective confusion is on Shiro and Staff because of multi hits but people claim that is because of bug, for ex sword 3 should proc one confusion active damage but it is procing 7 times now, if this is true then Ok then I don’t have too much to complain.

But if the multi hits from Staff and Sword will suffer from confusion then yeah I demand something that reduce that effect otherwise my Revenant will make Harakiri lots of times.

Most confusion condition applications dont last very long. Have you tried simply not attacking and waiting for the stacks to fall off? The three is now an evade which means you can go zipping around without having to worry about aoe damage. I think its prefectly fair to proc 7 times for each attempted strike if you chose to use the skill with confusion on you. Just as how the skill grants might for every time you hit not all 7 might stacks on use. Its fine as it is just don’t go zipping into the fight with confusion on you. If your using shiro then you should be playing like a thief not a warrior.

That defies the entire design of confusion though. Confusion punishes skill activation, whereas retaliation punishes hitting your enemy. Confusion is already much more powerful than retaliation, so there’s really no need for it to be encroaching on retal’s territory.

Its possibly because of the fact that the skill mechanic attempts builds might for every strike thus its possibly counted as using a skill. Retaliation is honestly too weak and its hardly noticeable anyways. Are you suggesting changes be mad to retaliation to yield the same result? Either way right now its a good counter play to a near 2 seconds of evades with good damage. The start up cannot be evaded or blocked making at least a few of your attacks promised to hit if in range. The only way to avoid being hit is to block with some skills not every profession has or burn 2 evades. The skill is very hard to counter right now and for that reason it should stay as it is.
“As you said it punishes activation” you activate the attack with confusion on you (Totally your call on doing so) Its not like confusion can be applied to you during the skill sense you are evading so….. it must have been on you before activation….. then you take 7 hits of confusion.

So really its not defying how confusion works now is it?

Swiftwynd.1685:

Honestly, I’d LOVE to see Glint’s Facet of Chaos elite also grant 2 seconds of Resistance.

Currently, 5 upkeep only for protection is never, ever worth it in my play experiences. It simply drained too much resources. If this doesn’t get reduced to 4 upkeep, the addition of Resistance would make it worth using in emergencies.

yes
You are right protection is not worth keeping on for a long time as it does drain too much but for a good reason. Protection is a very strong boon.

no
Getting perma resistance with only -5 upkeep is or even -4 upkeep is just insane. Mallyx already has a good lengthy time of resistance upkeep if conditions get put onto you. This should not be spread over to glint as he has every other boon in the game. What you suggest would make Mallyx stance useless and this is the kind of thing Devs are trying to avoid doing. There is already enough junk in the game people dont use because there is no good reasoning or situations to use it in. Having resistance only on mallyx gives revy a way to apply and fight condition. Take the resistance away and adding it in another place means there is now no reason to ever take this stance.
Perma protection is too strong anyways by itself no other profession can hold protection on itself for long periods of time without blowing massive cooldowns and revy should not be an exception to that rule when its in combat.

If you use that particular facet you get the protection boon instantly for what, 3-4 seconds. If you hold that on for even 2 applications you have had what would be = to a necromancers spectral armor or Elementalist armor of earth. Its not meant to be held onto for forever if anything most revy’s using it in a pinch will likely pop the second part to push enemies away Which uses 0 energy cost. Either way you still get some protection for roughly 3-4 seconds and if you did it quickly your energy would have hardly had time to drain.

We all know glint is good and 70% of revys will likely use glint in combination with one of the other stances. Every stance has its own situation and that’s what I think makes revy so likeable to players. Revy can be a good matchup against almost anything because of how situational it has options built for.

Dastion.3106:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

Not so much a weakness as a glaring design hole. Mesmers are weak to conditions. They have to specifically give up needed utility space to be able to combat them. Revenants have to change their entire build to do anything against them, they can’t just give-up Portal or something like the Mesmer

Not true. Its totally fair because revy can do something from almost every other profession when traited for it. You can go raw damage and burst like a thief, smack people from 1200 range for 8-10k damage, tank like a boss, be a great healer, reflect spread conditions like a necro. At any time, you can do a near combo of roughly 2-3 other professions in one build and do it rather well however this should not come without trade off. If you refuse to use mallyx then you suffer the wrath of conditions. If you use mallyx you lose some off the top damage but at least you can resist conditions better than you normally would be able to. Mallyx is so strong against conditions for a reason what you all are asking is that some of this be spread out across everything else which would be entirely unfair considering what potential revy already has.

Also I dont think you need to change up your entire build maybe a stance but thats it. Thats not your entire build you can totally run damage or tank traitlines and use any weapons you want with any stance. IF you think that mesmers giving up one utlity slot will save them from condition builds you are sadly mistaken. A mesmer must actually change there build as well to be fair against condition. One mantra or null- fuild will not spare them against a good condition player.

posthumecaver.6473:

The trick is normally I don’t feel that weak against conditions, if you take retribution while you have to keep that stability up, you have to dodge alot and condi classes have really hard time placing condi bomb on me. They only manage it during the Crystal Hybernation mainly or Staff 4.

What disturbs me is how effective confusion is on Shiro and Staff because of multi hits but people claim that is because of bug, for ex sword 3 should proc one confusion active damage but it is procing 7 times now, if this is true then Ok then I don’t have too much to complain.

But if the multi hits from Staff and Sword will suffer from confusion then yeah I demand something that reduce that effect otherwise my Revenant will make Harakiri lots of times.

Most confusion condition applications dont last very long. Have you tried simply not attacking and waiting for the stacks to fall off? The three is now an evade which means you can go zipping around without having to worry about aoe damage. I think its prefectly fair to proc 7 times for each attempted strike if you chose to use the skill with confusion on you. Just as how the skill grants might for every time you hit not all 7 might stacks on use. Its fine as it is just don’t go zipping into the fight with confusion on you. If your using shiro then you should be playing like a thief not a warrior.

Mallyx is one of the better options you can take on revy if you ask me. I used shiro for 5 minutes and got bored with it way too quickly. Mallyx was so much more fun honestly and provides better utility. In my opinion if you think Revy is weak against condition then use Mallyx if you simply refuse to use Mallyx then you should be weak against condition. Sorry, but you should not have the damage that can be accessed with shiro and glint then say you need more condi removal because you chose not to take mallyx.

More than likely many revy’s are not using mallyx right now because it was shown early when revy was still missing way too much to be of any use. Thus, people no longer want to try it because the base it to be far to weak because when they tried it Revy overall was pretty weak and still missing alot of details.

Being baseline stances on the different dodges I feel would be too strong. Considering the first minor gives you free dodge right off the bat is pretty strong as it is. I feel like everyone is right the dodges are not as fluid as the standard dodge and need to be looked at. But being ablet to swap them mid-combat is just a no no. You shouldn’t be rewarded for every type of dodge and then gain bonus new grand master traits.

Once you pick a type of dodge you should be limited to that one. Each of the dodges are pretty darn strong having access to all 3 at any given time should present the same problem as to why Reaper can not use Death shroud and Reapershroud at any given time when you take the reaper trait line.

In short more fluid yes, The extra dodge yes, being able to swap between them like an ele does attunements No.

Sigmoid.7082:

The reason i can see for the different ICD’s for those skills is aoe chill as a condition is arguably a lot stronger than of one stack of aoe burn. Also you cant compare the two traits in a vacuum. You have to look at the class as a whole and see where the trait fits in.

1
Except for the part where burn can be spam applied and you wont feel punished for burning a cooldown to apply it.

2
There are not many free traits people can use to remove burning

vs

Most chilling skills have high cooldowns so if you use it and a foe cleanses it you cant reapply it so easily.

Almost every profession has a trait that reduces chills duration or flat out removes it with ease.

If anything the ICD’s should be swapped or the same = to each other. Chill will be cleansed and you have to blow another big cooldown to reapply it.
Burning will be cleansed and instantly re applied because of how many low cd burn skills there are. I doubt chilled damage from that grand master trait was boosted enough for it to feel impactful if you manage to apply it.

I like the idea but honestly i really do but part of me says I don’t want it to do this. Doing this means we have to give up something else. I think it should sit as it is.

Arche.7326:

I think he means PvP finisher, as in it instantly kills of downed enemeis. Personaly I love the idea, but it would be too strong on a 30 second cooldown. I do however think that the >25% bonus should apply to downed targets, which I forgot to test during the last BWE.

The thief one is on a 40 second cd so how do you feel about that ?

nekretaal.6485:

The changes to conditions absolutely gutted scepter. As of now, necromancer has, IMHO, no weapons for a condition user to use.

It’s an awful weapon, perhaps not Axe & focus bad, but bottom tier bad.

Why is it bad?

Base damage is low, condition stacks are low, lifeforce gain is low.

The weapon neither scales well with power or condition damage.

The only good things you can say about the weapon is that the #2 field is decent (but cripple got nerfed), scepter has decent range, and the long lasting conditions, Traited, prevent players from out of combat heals.

Poison not duration stacking turns out to be a killer nerf, even worse than bleed condition damage scaling being so horrible.

A condition rebalance could save things, but outside of that there isn’t too much hope for the weapon.

I would suggest that the lingering curse duration increase become baseline. (the condition damage portion can be its own trait). Then maybe tweak the number of bleed and poison stacks plus put a non damaging condition like slow on #3 as part of the reworked grandmaster trait.

But that’s not enough to save the weapon either. I really don’t see a future for the weapon.

Forget the lingering curse becoming baseline just change it so that it doubles every thing the scepter does stack wise rather than duration. Duration condition is pretty much dead at this point. Its all about shorter conditions that do more because they stack higher.
IMO the lingering curse trait should double the number of applied stacks rather than the duration (This will increase condition damage with the weapon while reducing ramp up when using the weapon. Not a good fix but better than what it currently does. The base duration on scepter are already pretty long if you ask me.)

Auto attacks with the scepter should be 2 or 3 bleeds > 2 or 3 bleeds > 2 or 3 poison stacks
The scepter 2 should be 4-6 bleed 2hits of the cripple and one other condition at least for being such a slow skill.
The scepter 3 should just be gutted and done away with for something that can actually generate lf more effectively.

Duration is nice but when you cant get more than 3-4 stacks of that bleed and like 2 stacks of poison the long duration is not getting much of anything. With the long duration and low number of stacks it can be ignored while your foe bodies you. But if one auto attack chain put around 6 bleed stacks and maybe 2 or 3 poison stacks on you its gonna start to hurt.

For it to be mostly a single target weapon with AA speed that slow its not rewarding enough for how much time it takes to cycle though one full AA chain. The only good thing this weapon has going for it if you ask me is its range. 900 range is pretty darn good, its just too slow for the pay out it rewards. Same thing with life blast.

I agree thins need to be done but chill is actually quite useful in pve (mobs and bosses do have skills that have cool downs and chill will effect those cooldowns)

I do think other things need to be done in general more so with the profession mechanic, the professions utility skills, and a few of the weapons (axe and scepter) Along with some conflicting traits and lack of damage modifiers or surveil modifiers that other light armored professions or most professions have in general. I DONT LIKE THE FACT THAT NECROMANCER/REAPER IS ALL ABOUT CHILL AND NOW EVERY PROFESSION HAS A SUPER EASY FIX FOR REMOVING CHILLED we need a trait that prevents chilled from being removed so easily or chilled needs its effectiveness increased even more for reaper.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ZDragon.3046:

Is it possible that we could get an updated hud for the necro profession mechanic? It currently will show you how much like force you have as a total but not how much you have as a % without mousing over.

I was thinking something that looks a little new and fresh like revy’s energy bar. Also maybe show the % of life force we have without having to mouse over?

Eyeball it? We already had it work the way you’re suggesting in the past, but then, the actual amount of life force we had was unknown. Percentages are much easier to eyeball than actual values.

I dont know im just curious if its something easy to do.

I have to agree its a pure hard counter because with all that evade they are getting crap tons of cc.

I fail to see the point in saying that Reaper is all about chill then all the other professions get e-z traits that will remove chilled by doing something as simple as a dodge or a roll. :/ For crying out loud the stealth attack with staff is a 2 second knockdown most of there utility has some sort of cc attached to it + all the evades.

Is it possible that we could get an updated hud for the necro profession mechanic? It currently will show you how much like force you have as a total but not how much you have as a % without mousing over.

I was thinking something that looks a little new and fresh like revy’s energy bar. Also maybe show the % of life force we have without having to mouse over?

Shadowmoon.7986:

Samhayn.2385:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Seeing how reaper dps is lower than dagger spam, and you lose the only group utility in the blood magic we have. As of the iteration of the reaper I played in BWE 1, it is just plain awful.
I am unsure if the buff will be enough to justify enough reason to go reaper and untrait from the only group utility we have.

What are you talking about? Shroud skill 4 still heals when you use it. I was healing my buddy for 3-4 k.

So you replaced spite or soul reaping instead of blood to get reaper?
That lowers your dps even further below dagger spam because you are either trading 5% from DR or 5%(25% below 50) from spite for life stealing, that get worse the slower your attack is. So to keep same group utility as a dagger necro, you get more kitten dps as a reaper.
Reaper and blood magic has poor senergies. If they made life stealing a % instead of a base value, then it will behave better. But as for now blood magic will get the best benefit from dagger.

I have to agree with this… blood magic was over hyped for what it really is. Its to low to be fixed numbers. and should be % based. Fixed numbers is not true lifesteal. In every game ive ever played lifesteal effects have always been based on a % of the damage you were able to dish out.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Infusing Terror is already almost a break bar, but without any of the drawbacks.

The real problem is that all our useful fixes are being bundled into the Reaper.

Once again Im talking about base necromancer not reaper. Reaper is something thats being treated equally to pretty much traitlines all other base professions have going on. But if you look into the base traits of the necromancer and some of the skills of the base necromancer (not reaper) there are some things that just need to be thrown away and remade and some things that need to be updated.

Klaeljanus.7695:

ZDragon.3046:

spoj.9672:

Im against this. If they made it a breakbar they would slap a huge ICD on it. And FitG is a very good trait as it is right now because it has no ICD. Especially in CC heavy encounters in PvE (not so common right now but HoT has plenty by the looks of it). And fractals has a few places where it is really useful already.

So I say no to making FitG become a breakbar because that would be a nerf. Im all for us getting a breakbar elsewhere though.

You must be insane to be against it lol. Break bars come with a massive risk on using them if they get broken.
AND
DS already has a cd itself.
AND
If you can only get it while in DS and its only up while DS is up plus you have to give up a trait for it i think its totally fair for it not to have a ICD.
PLUS
Once the bar is broken its gone and the only way to get it back would be to re trigger DS which has a 10second cd.

And what are you some insane guy who uses foot in the grave as it is now. Be honest aside form the initial break stun that 3s stability stack is not doing anything for you lol.

I would note that a very good reason to be against it, is that against all odds and every piece of evidence, they actually think that Necro is one of the strongest classes in the game, not one of the weakest. Until they think otherwise(which, as the BWE shows, actually playing the class and looking at it’s results works!) Asking for things that the class needs to be relevant will be ignored or come with massive and punitive nerfs.

I dont like to count BEW stats because its mostly considered with reaper which is being done right as opposed to being so limited. Lets talk base necro because thats where the problems are. Reaper is one of the few things I feel they are doing 100% legit with necromancer but the base portion of necromancer has some major problems. Base necro by far is not one of the strongest professions in the game, they think it is but we all know its not. It really good in WvW which i know pulls in heavy on the choices they make but WvW is only a small scale of the games full content in which the other parts of said game necromancer is far from strongest.

Knighthonor.4061:

ZDragon.3046:

Lets face the fact here. 90% of necormancers take soul reaping and you get to the grand master traits and you see
-Foot in the grave
-Death perception
-Dhuumfire

I was doing a little reading and thought well -Death perception is awesome as is.
-Dhuumfire has potential but other ds skills need to be adjusted to make use of it outside of having reaper shroud

Now we get to the elephant in the room.
-Foot in the grave
Break stun when entering DS! Cool thats pretty sweet.
Gain 1 stability for 3 seconds :/ ok wtf this is a slap in the face.

err is that it…

ok it seems arena net has been giving out break bars lately so why not.

AT least make this trait worth something. Remove that useless stability and make it a break bar instead that can take x amount of hits of cc’s before it pops and wont reset till you re enter ds.

What are your thoughts

You just trying to get us some undeserved nerfs arent you?

LOL We are gonna get them anyways. If you count the number of normalizations vs the number of nerfs over the past few years im sure you will find that Team Nerf is winning nearly flawlessly

Ara.4569:

People become what they are treated as being : treat necromancer like a pve boss and necros will start longing for a break bar.

Well revey is going to have access to one as well as ele. Treat necro like a player and every other profession like a pve boss is more like it.

Lily.1935:

Foot on the grave is already really good. One of my favorite traits the necromancer has at the moment. Even with reaper. Try it in HoT with reaper. on a full berzerker set. You wont be disappointed. Decimate defenses can replace Death perception in that role. And I’m sure most everyone here has full zerker anyway.

Although i’ve had some of my own ideas. Like making Spectral Mastery a Grandmaster trait, fuzed with Last Gasp and making Foot in the grave a minor to free up some much needed space in Soul reaping. But that might be a bit too powerful. I don’t know, the Revenant has a similar trait as a minor called Empty Vessel, only I’d argue its better even with FitG’s stability.

Its amazing for the breakstun my issue is the short and most of the time useless stability that comes with it.

Sagat.3285:

Please no break bar for necro just let FotG trigger when you exit shroud and it will feel more like a GM. About Dhummfire I have a thread on that in short just make Life Blast a 2 hit skill making siphon proc and Unyielding Blast decent on base shroud as well.

I actually agree with this even better. IF it triggered as well on exiting DS then it would be a GM worthy. I actually like you idea on triggering on exit more than the whole idea of a break bar.

As far as dhummfire thats the the other thread i started where Robert said looking at reducing the casting time is a possibility but there would more than likely have to be a damager nerf to compensate for it. (depending on how this damager reduction would be done would depend on if the profession would be totally ruined or not.)

This post has gotten way out of control but i like that people are talking about it. Reapers Might needs to stay just as it is. Even if you spam life blast as much as you cant currently it wont get you 25 stacks i think its generally around 14 to 17 stacks. Syphoned power is what gets you the rest of the way to 25. I don’t know why they think we needed more might in general honestly.

Necromancer is good at holding might and thats all it can hold unlike mesmer and ele (Both light armored professions) they can hold might fairly well along with other vital boons a light armored profession should have. Where is necormancers perma vigor,regen, and fury, all of which ele and mesmers are good at holding along with might.

Chilling victory is a waste if you ask me. The life force generation from hitting a chilled foe has potential but more might… such a waste, remove that might and make it swiftness, vigor, regen or something like that. Necro also needs more boon varation or boon generation needs to be reduced on mesmer and ele. but in the end more might is….. ehhh not really needed if you ask me. These are not the traits that need to be redone its the traits that players will not use.

As far as the vital persistence trait goes its really too good to not take it. If it was made baseline spectral builds would come back I don’t see how this would be too strong as it was a viable trait pattered we saw before the trait patch. You could have vital persistence + spectral mastery at the same time and people ran it all the time. I don’t see why making VP a baseline thing is now considered to be too strong and in need of nerfs when it was already a thing many people pretty much used. I dont know why devs consider that making slight things that should have already been done to necro at this point means they have to take something from it that will hurt it in the long run.

Mean while you have professions like mesmer running around with tools like, super stealth, mirror reflect on evade, blind on evade, blind on shatter, and tons of invulnerability skills. Even ele now has access to super speed on air swap. Necro has yet to see any vital boons or effects like quickness and super speed because of how much they limit it. I took like what 3 years for them to even get 1 source of stability thats not (plague or lichform). I don’t know why they get the idea that necro in general needs to be this slow caster and then they go and give every other profession more quickness and super speed.

Necromancer is probably the most creative profession in the game its very different from the others and the only one that can possibly be as creative and unique is the mesmer (which i personally don’t like i think its a broken profession with a good concept.) Mean while Necro is a good concept but…. its limited so hard by devs its not even funny.