Guild Wars 2

Also you have to take into account the rather large list of things they change without telling us about it on the patchnotes, which makes us reason based on inaccurate information.

Since you fail to answer the question properly (is yes/no too hard?) we can try to understand the implications of your political reply:

When you want to complete the content, do you want to perform well?

On a side note I found that actually our best tool to move is LH !
Basically use attunement swapping with elemental attunement, as well as glyph of elemental power, to give you swiftness and then spam LH’s 2 on cd.
Why such trick I can move almost as fast as a GS warrior.

Expect LH to be nerfed soon.

Because elems are not intended to be able to move. You didn’t get that after they nerfed rtl to oblivion?

It is supposed to work in combat only

Since I am at work, can someone experiment ingame to tell me how many meteors fall after
t = meteor shower cast + lava font cast + conjure LH
(so t = roughly 5.4s)
please?

My opinion is that you must consider the stats and the traits when allocating trait points. But this is an other debate. It is not affected the idea that signet of earth makes you a heavy.

A warrior auto attacking deals little damage.

Read again what I am saying: if armor is a problem, then just take signet of earth. This is because we are already taking 10 in earth for the damage.

It always makes me laugh when people say that because of our armor being the lowest we die in a glance … you know if our armor is a problem then just take 10 in earth like we all do for dmg and signet of earth then bam you are a heavy.

I am not stating anything for modes other than PvE.

Max-dps calculations are useful only in a handful situations, so most people should not really use the builds derived from these. But they are a necessary starting point, used to compare builds, and from this you can switch to more survivability.

Update on the rotation stated earlier: add two fireballs and take away one flame burst and you get a coherent rotation with 15k4 dps (plus insignificant burn)

STRanger.5120:

Well, I have an idea, what about to calculate the real dps, with a realistic build, I kinda doubt that with this build, Ele would be able to survive even the glance of an enemy

I get this a lot. The problem you see is: what kind and how much survivability do we need? This is an endless debate since it depends on the content and the skill of the player. Here I am talking about max dps, and I then try to see how sustainable I can make the build without compromising its damage too much. If I wanted to give an actual advice on what to run realistically in what type of content I would just tell people to read my guide or Neko’s !

In short: I can’t include all factors present in the game. So I must stick to a specific situation that I can control.

Ok I worked on first result to get an idea

Rotation without switching attunements
- Lava font, Meteor shower, flame burst, LF
- Conjure LH
- swing 15 times
- LF, FB, 3 FB
Total time: 26s (maybe 0.1 more)

30/20/10/10/0
Bloodlust, curry butternut
Usual buffs & gear etc

Average dps: 16k4 + burn (250) = 16k7

But since we are not switching attunements we are making only one blast

Now I will look into how switching attunements can help us

Edit: nvm this, I made a mistake: we need 28s of total rotation for MS to be back up

Actually I was making the mistake that MS has 30s cd without alacrity … in fact its cd is 34s since its cooldown only starts at the end of the cast.
The problem I have is that if we switch to water for LH for 15s, then spend 1s in earth and the rest in fire then the total rotation time should be of about 30s. Which means more fireballs would have to be cast, or we would have to spend less than the total hammer time in water.

Actually I think I could just play without pyromancer’s alacrity, and just add one more fireball after the meteor shower. This could result in a dps boost since we can then take ember’s might.

Starting my staff + LH experiment here

Excelsior comrades!

I am working on measuring how efficient a staff + LH build would be.
It is quite a complicated process because it involves many more factor than simple builds like single LH or single staff.

I am going to go on developing the discussion here as I evaluate the best build, the best rotation and the best dps possible for this weapon set-up. Please contribute, give me feedback, advice, critique, anything that comes to your mind.

Here is what I have so far:

Build: persisting flames, pyromancer’s alacrity

Rotation

target: hitbox radius double that of human size ( 2 * 45 = 90 )

format
time elapsed | spell | cast time | coefficient

Start in fire
00.0 | Lava font | 0.4 | 0.8 * 5 = 4 (five hits because of persisting flames)
00.4 | Meteor Shower | 4 | 6 * 1.3 = 7.8 (six hits on average on target)
04.40 | Fireball | 1.4 | 0.85
05.80 | Lava font | 0.4 | 4
Swap to water during cast
06.20 | Conjure Lightning hammer | 1 | 0
07.20 | Swing chain | 2.82 | 1 + 1 + 1.8 = 3.8
10.02 | Swing chain | 2.82 | 3.8
12.84 | Swing chain | 2.82 | 3.8
15.66 | Swing chain | 2.82 | 3.8
18.48 | Swing chain | 2.82 | 3.8
Swap to earth
21.30 | Eruption | 1.2 | 1.25
Swap to fire
22.50 | Lava font | 0.4 | 4
22.90 | Fireball | 1.4 | 0.85
24.30 | Fireball | 1.4 | 0.85
25.70 | Fireball | 1.4 | 0.85
27.10 | Fireball | 1.4 | 0.85
28.50 | end of rotation

There are actually two phases of 28.5s: one where you conjure the hammer and the other where you just pick up the second previously conjured hammer.

There is one fireball that you could “shave off” in the rotation, but I like to keep it for now to make the computation realistic.

This rotation may not be the best. It is possible that swapping attunement is not the best choice. I need to make full calculations for this and it takes time.

Note that if you use arcane wave than you have a total of three blasts, which makes perma fury and 6 stacks of might on average for the group.

I’ll let you know when I have more!

Hm two blasts = 20s of fury
FGJ = 8s
total 28s ?

@Dolan
Spot on. The situation in which these builds achieve this dps is quite unrealistic.
The only application I have seen so far is GL speedkill.

The only reason why I posted this is because someone made a strong claim that staff dps is the very best in the game.

Edit: and also I must admit I wanted to show that d/f FA is bloody good

So many people with the same belief ….

You should all get together and start a religion

Then Kodiak answer the first question:

When you are in a group do you want to perform well ?

It is strange that it is so hard for you to answer these questions … hmm suspicious

These builds are not made for dungeon runs, they are made for max dps.
Actually my lovely d/f build would do very nicely in dungeon runs, for your information

I ask:
Would you say that it is possible that since you “do not care” then others in your group may “not care” just like you?

You reply:
My answer is I am there to complete the content.

You are not answering the question with this reply

Gyler.8150:

I’m sorry, got confused, i thought arcane lightning does not stack with discipline banner?
So those 10 in air are not that great?

Never heard of such behavior

Please answer the question

Or some other thing that is not part of class mechanics and can produce fire fields

Wukunlin.8461:

looks like it will be best to have both in a group so the LH can keep blasting the lava font

Yeah I worked on that and it is really godly!
I can try to produce some dps figure for this if you are interested

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

That looks right I suppose. The difference in this case is you’re taking max Bloodlust/Perception but not Frost Spirit/Spotter, which is rather skewing the results, but that aside, if you add the Meteor Shower DPS (which puts unscaled DPS at 544) you’ll see they’re pretty much even. Take out the Slaying/Night stuff and staff pulls ahead pretty quickly. I guess it depends primarily on the buffs you choose to account for.

Either way I wouldn’t say LH is any more than staff. At best the two are pretty much even. Quoting a difference as big as 16.8k versus 14.6k is just misinformation.

It has been agreed among the dungeon community that hunter buffs should not be considered as the meta is now.

The 514 base dps I used in your spreadsheet is including meteor shower. The base dps for staff is not 544, or any of the other base dps you have found using your method.

Ignoring sigils is skewing results since one build has 2 while the other has 1.

Finally, as Dub pointed out LH can actually deal even more than this with a 0/20/25/25/0 build. I calculated a 17k8 figure.

So let it be confirmed once and for all: in the conditions that have been stated above, LH deals more dps than staff.

Right, so your answer is “you do not care” if you are performing well.

Now, would you say that it is possible that since you “do not care” then others in your group may “not care” just like you?

You know, if there was A best end-game weapon, we wouldn’t be using any of the others

I still have problems with Lupicus :s

Also you may notice that if you take away a 1.1 modifier on the LH dps you get 14941.2 which is exactly the number you quoted on the elem thread. Maybe when you did that calculation you forgot a sigil or a modifier , like say for example the one you omitted by typo in the list of traits used: stone splinters.

http://www.filedropper.com/dpscalculatorgkstafflh

Modifications made are in red
Tab 2 is staff dps
Tab 3 is LH dps

Edit: I added 9 extra preci on signet of fire on both builds, my mistake, not very significant.

Can’t watch videos at work, but what ever it says you are wrong.

If this game requires no skill please show me your GL solo thx

Do you even know how many bosses can be soloed? Search for Wethospu on Youtube.
I think Wethospu deserves to have a mega end game boss of the death named after him and be unbeatable

I think drake’s breath and cone of cold also have no target limitations, but I am not sure

Or Kodiak would yell something along the lines of:
Let me join my zerg the way I want!
Don’t impose a fight on me!
Let’s wave our arms around and pretend to fight, no one can tell we are dealing no damage to each other anyway!

Dub.1273:

Lupicus doesn’t like being “instagib’ed”.

He prefers to instagib himself on reflections … that masochist

Grevender.9235:

it wouldn’t hurt to have that dps and some survivability xD

Actually it would be very painful … for the mobs!

But you are not even allowed to dodge for the LH build to work

On the dungeon forums Dub pointed out to me that LH benefits more from a 0/20/25/25/0 build with 9 boons permanently.

This is true. Change food to curry butternut and you get 17k8 dps

Dub.1273:

Surely 0/20/25/25/0 is more dps when you consider all boons being permanently up.

You are completely right
I changed food to curry butternut, factored in 9 boons (multiplicative stacking assumed), and I got 17k8 dps

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Looks cool, but it’s funny that from what I read earlier: you and Guang seem to have pretty different ratings of LH/Staff. He had staff up at like 16k, while you have LH that high.

Yes but we discussed this extensively and Guang was both overestimating and underestimating staff’s damage at the same time. Also we agreed to take out hunter buffs.

Using his own spreadsheet I get 14k3 for staff and 16k5 for LH, but the stats he is using for gear are slightly outdated.

Since I have been asked about this in the elem forum, I thought it may interest some people here: elem max dps (no FGS, no ranger)

LH
0/25/25/20/0
Traits: bolt to the heart, arcane lightning, stone splinters, serrated stone, vital striking, piercing shards.
Gear: ascended zerker, scholar runes
Sigils: night and slaying
Utilities: signet of fire, LH, arcane spell
Nourishment: sweet and spicy butternut, potion
Mechanic: wield hammer in water attunement (AA only, no dodging) cast arcane spells to get arcane lightning. Max duration of rotation: 28.2s (recharge: 1min)
Player buffs: full might, fury, banners (strength, discipline), empower allies, 25 bloodlust stacks
Target: bleed, burn, vulnerability (25 stacks), melee range, linear hp (will be 33% of the time under 33% hp), 2600 armor
Working stats: 3699 power, 97% crit chance, 183% bonus crit dmg (including 50 base)
Average Dps: 16k8
Note: more dps while arcane lightning is up

Staff
30/20/10/10/0
Traits: internal fire, pyromancer alacrity, persisting flames, bolt to the heart, arcane lightning, stone splinters, vital striking
Gear: ascended zerker, scholar runes
Sigil: slaying
Utilities: signet of fire, arcane spells
Nourishment: sweet and spicy butternut, potion
Mechanic: spam meteor shower, lava font and fireball on cooldown (interrupt fireballs if need be), remain in fire
Player buffs: full might, fury, banners (strength, discipline), empower allies, 25 perception stacks
Target: burn, vulnerability (25 stacks), under 600 range range, linear hp (will be 33% of the time under 33% hp), 2600 armor, immobile (take all lava font hits), target hitbox radius is twice that of a human player (90).
Working stats: 3749 power, 97% crit chance, 173% bonus crit dmg (including 50 base)
Average Dps: 14k6
Note: more dps while arcane lightning is up, more damage for larger targets

fresh air dagger/focus
30/30/10/0/0
Traits: ember’s might, burning precision, persisting flames, bolt to the heart, air training, fresh air, stone splinters
Gear: ascended zerker, scholar runes
Sigil: slaying and night
Utilities: signet of fire, arcane wave
Nourishment: sweet and spicy butternut, potion
Mechanic: complex rotation (will expand later on this, or you can check in my guide: link in signature)
Player buffs: full might, fury, banners (strength, discipline), empower allies, 25 bloodlust stacks
Target: burn, vulnerability (25 stacks), melee range range, linear hp (will be 33% of the time under 33% hp), 2600 armor, is of human size (takes only 1 tick of burning speed trail per second)
Working stats: 3899 power, 95% crit chance, 183% bonus crit dmg (including 50 base)
Average Dps: 14k7 + 0.5k of burn = 15k3 dps
Note: more dps for larger targets

all dps figures are for the rotations in themselves, excluding damage from any utilities
My apologies for any possible yet unlikely mistake

Guanglai and I are still discussing some numbers about LH and staff, but the picture is pretty clear.

No problem

Keep in mind that these builds are oriented for max dps though, they may not be the best choice for a normal dungeon run

Also I am not completely mistake-proof on the calculations

There are not too many:

LH build
0/25/25/20/0
Traits: bolt to the heart, arcane lightning, stone splinters, serrated stone, vital striking, piercing shards.
Gear: ascended zerker, scholar runes
Sigils: night and slaying
Utilities: signet of fire, LH, arcane spell
Nourishment: sweet and spicy butternut, potion
Mechanic: wield hammer in water attunement (AA only, no dodging) cast arcane spells to get arcane lightning. Max duration of rotation: 28.2s (recharge: 1min)
Player buffs: full might, fury, banners (strength, discipline), empower allies, 25 bloodlust stacks
Target: bleed, burn, vulnerability (25 stacks), melee range, linear hp (will be 33% of the time under 33% hp), 2600 armor
Working stats: 3699 power, 97% crit chance, 183% bonus crit dmg (including 50 base)
Average Dps: 16k8
Note: more dps while arcane lightning is up

Staff
30/20/10/10/0
Traits: internal fire, pyromancer alacrity, persisting flames, bolt to the heart, arcane lightning, stone splinters, vital striking
Gear: ascended zerker, scholar runes
Sigil: slaying
Utilities: signet of fire, arcane spells
Nourishment: sweet and spicy butternut, potion
Mechanic: spam meteor shower, lava font and fireball on cooldown (interrupt fireballs if need be), remain in fire
Player buffs: full might, fury, banners (strength, discipline), empower allies, 25 perception stacks
Target: burn, vulnerability (25 stacks), under 600 range range, linear hp (will be 33% of the time under 33% hp), 2600 armor, immobile (take all lava font hits), target hitbox radius is twice that of a human player (90).
Working stats: 3749 power, 97% crit chance, 173% bonus crit dmg (including 50 base)
Average Dps: 14k6
Note: more dps while arcane lightning is up, more damage for larger targets

fresh air dagger/focus
30/30/10/0/0
Traits: ember’s might, burning precision, persisting flames, bolt to the heart, air training, fresh air, stone splinters
Gear: ascended zerker, scholar runes
Sigil: slaying and night
Utilities: signet of fire, arcane wave
Nourishment: sweet and spicy butternut, potion
Mechanic: complex rotation (will expand later on this, or you can check in my guide: link in signature)
Player buffs: full might, fury, banners (strength, discipline), empower allies, 25 bloodlust stacks
Target: burn, vulnerability (25 stacks), melee range range, linear hp (will be 33% of the time under 33% hp), 2600 armor, is of human size (takes only 1 tick of burning speed trail per second)
Working stats: 3899 power, 95% crit chance, 183% bonus crit dmg (including 50 base)
Average Dps: 14k7 + 0.5k of burn = 15k3 dps
Note: more dps for larger targets, a significant part of the damage is single target

I think a just dropped a bomb with d/f, didn’t I ?

edit: all dps figures are for the rotation in itself, excluding damage from any utilities
Also note that the dps figures require you to have many buffs and conditions on target that the builds cannot provide on their own. The LH build provides some vulnerability and blast finishers, the staff has to be almost fully carried, while the d/f build provides perma fury and 6 stacks of might on average for the group.

Not all skills have this 5 target limit

Let’s try this:

Kodiak, when you are in a group you want to perform well don’t you?

Just a simple question, give us a simple answer.

Yopaye.9053:

Zelyhn.8069:

From June 25th patch:

Lava Font: Reduced the cast time from .36 seconds to .2 seconds. Reduced the aftercast from .34 seconds to .2 seconds.

Try it ingame, you can see that the cooldown does not start until a bit after that spell has finished casting. You can estimate this time because the sort of white haze on the skill ticks after the spell is cast.

I may be wrong but, if you don’t wait for the aftercast and use Fireball yourself, it seems to interupt the aftercast and start Lava Font cooldown immediately

It could be true. In fact Sabull has showed me that there are many weird little things with casting mechanics. There might be some server-client issues as well.

I plugged that LH build in your spreadsheet with the appropriate buffs and I got 16k5 dps

Edit: you should check the gear tab of your spreadsheet, it is a it oudated

Nice, this is what I was looking for, thanks for taking the time to do this!

I do not have my spreadsheet available right now, but I will check tomorrow.

I notice that you have not included stone splinters for LH, is it just an omission while typing?

Nonono, theorycrafting is just the modelling of what happens in game. Efficient TC reflects everything, from feasibility to server bugs.

It’s called theorycrafting because it sounds cool, but the real name for it is “meauring the white numbers that pop on your screen”

And sometimes we do a bit of “huge would these white numbers be if I changed this little thing here”