Showing Posts For Zenith.6403:

Guardian has everything!

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

One thing I’m really wondering about, is that why some professions like Guardian have extreme versatility and some others like the Ranger are limited to very specific niche.

Guardian staff:
You can cast a symbol that gives swiftness to everybody that touches the symbol. Why won’t Mesmer’s focus #4 work like this? The staff’s Empower gives extreme stack of might to everybody around you… what other weapon does this? And then there’s the oppressive staff #5 that creates impassable barrier for 5 long, long seconds which can knock down foes trying to pass it for 3 consecutive times.

This isn’t really something you’d expect to see on a profession that also has great team support auras, healing, pulling, protection, invulnerability and heavy armor.

So I say that Arenanet should decide what they want to focus on in the Guardian profession and tone down abilities that are too good considering the versatility of the profession. Meanwhile they should take a look at what some lesser used and one-dimensional professions like Ranger and Mesmer could offer to groups in WvW. I dare say that even if Mesmer and Ranger utilities would reach the point of usefullness, the professions themselves would be far from overpowered. I’d just like to see the field make a bit more even.

Guild Wars 2 is amazing :) Stop complaining.

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Thank you. I think it’s a wonderful game, and I’m proud to be involved with the team.

- Would you still have your job if you said otherwise? Because every member of Anet team is saying something positive about the company and at the same time disclosing no information of particular importance it feels like watching news in North Korea. Also why can only those who bought the game already access these forums?

(edited by Zenith.6403)

Release of ingame statistics

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

It wouldn’t take up any more memory than if the item is chosen when you loot. It just determines what the item is when the monster dies, or when the bag is opened, same amount of memory involved either way.

- That answer has to be stored somewhere.

Imagine you have a coin and you want to know what are the result of 10 coin flips, but only after 1 hour has passed. You can ask your friend to flip the coin 10 times and then tell the result after one hour. Your friend has to remember the result (i.e. store it on memory). Alternatively you could just wait with the coin and do the flipping after 1 hour. Second option doesn’t requires memory.

Is such safety and range fair??

in Ranger

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Is turning invisible fair (thieves)? Is blocking constantly and getting no damage fair (guardians)? Is raining death on huge area from the sky fair (elementalist)?

Not really, but I’d say each of the classes has a role they do best. For Ranger it’s ranged single-target combat. Get close and the Ranger’s damage drops to 75% of long range damage. Projectile reflection is another great defense.

Zerg Meta WvW build

in Engineer

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Don’t play anything with conditions. Condition damage is capped, delayed, reduced and purged. Go with berserker.

Release of ingame statistics

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

No reason to have it precalculated, it would just take up memory.

Best MMO game ever

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I was more addicted to WoW than to Guild Wars 2….but I have more fun playing Guild Wars 2. I like this game because I don’t need to work for armor. I have my armor. It doesn’t matter if I get a skin I want today, or tomorrow, or next thursday or next April. Won’t change the game for me. That’s a very powerful thing coming from other MMOs.

- If you read what you said, you can find that it’s just the talk of lonesome figure who is chasing carrot on a stick. “I like this game… because it doesn’t contain this aversive element from some other game.”

What’s the meaning of “liking” something anyway? It’s not pleasurable like reading a good book is pleasurable. The emotions the player experiences are not happiness like happiness of watching a good comedy. The challenges are not challenging like chess is challenging. Being in a party is not any kind of sociality. What remains, thus, is some kind of lizard brain that says I must follow through the suggestions the game constantly feeds me and I feel rewarded because the game says I’ve been rewarded.

Best MMO game ever

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I want to change the scenery a bit here and say thanks Anet for the best MMO game and experience ever!

- It’s addicting like cocaine is addicting. You just want more and more of it without stopping and without getting tired. You shirk your responsibilities and become lonesome figure who is only interested in the next carrot on the patch, that new armor, those new achievements and collectibles.

When you say that this is the best MMO, I read it as the most addicting MMO. That’s not something to be happy about.

Release of ingame statistics

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

It was be interesting to see how many precursors have been lost from bags not being looted actually

- You misunderstand how it works. The bags don’t contain anything, but opening one will give you a roll on different item categories and the selected item is placed on your inventory.

Want the human female animations back

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I would like a DEV post on this.. and NOT from somebody in “Community Special Operations”.

Hello from Community Live Experience Special Support Relations,

We don’t have any estimate when this problem will be fixed. We are working very hard and are committed to our community. This discussion is not helpful, so I’m going to lock the thread.

Kind regards

Let's talk about upgrades!

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Why not make it so that caravans are invulnerable until caravan guards are killed? NPC vs. player is out of balance anyway since fully geared player character can easily solo a whole camp by himself. One solution would be to increase all NPC levels by 1 or 2 to make it a little more difficult.

Top 10 MMOs by Worldwide Revenue for 2014 YTD

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I’m not surprised to see League of Legends on the top spot. Riot Games is excellent at delivering content that players want to buy with no obligation to buy it.

Guild Wars 2 on the other hand does really poor job at selling useful things:

  • Who spends cash on repair canister when you can repair your armor for free?
  • What’s the motivation to buying town clothes when you can’t fight with them and have few chances to show them off?
  • Festival item effects are not impressive and temporary on a game that’s already saturated with them. Cast a meteor shower from your staff if you want to see effects.

Single click AoE casting is needed

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Oh, I found it. Thanks STRanger!

Single click AoE casting is needed

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Dear Anet, could you please implement a function that allows casting area-of-effect spells with single click? Currently it’s done by first clicking the skill and then selecting area where you want to cast the skill and clicking again. Single-click AoE would cast it at cursor location when skill is clicked.

This is especially problem with some professions like Engineer using grenade kit. Every auto-attack needs two clicks and it’s very tiring on my fingers.

a good class for all game modes?

in Profession Balance

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Guardian. It has been top tier since launch, still is. There’s no better profession to main if you want to do everything than a Guardian.

- Indeed! Some professions have 11 weapons, range, heavy armor, damage, tagging power and so many useful traits you actually have to choose what to sacrifice. Fighting a Guardian you see a full line of different buffs.

And some other professions there’s awkward moment when you look at their traits and go like “is there anything that I can consistently use to aid me in here?”

Full Zerker Well Necro [video]

in Necromancer

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I didn’t even remember that there was such a headache-inducing “feature” in the game.

Why won't people care about bloodlust?

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Has anyone ever in their wvw life build one cannon over a ruin purposefully?

- I wonder what was the process that led to placing a cannon on top of it. Did some dev just get the idea of building a vista-like point and the cannon icon just happened to be visible on the toolbar. “Oh, I’m going to add a cannon! Yeah that looks cool.”

No more white swords

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

The removal of white swords is a striking change. It may either decrease or increase participation in WvW.

- The white swords are information. Information that you can use to make your decision. A beacon of light in the fog of war. Take away white swords and players will be even more clueless what’s happening around them. We need more information, not less.

We don’t know where enemies are going.
We don’t know where own own guys are going.
We don’t know how many supplies our structures have without visiting them.
We don’t know how many supplies enemy structures have without being near them.
We don’t know how many supplies our own guys have.
We don’t know what’s the upgrade status of our buildings.
We don’t know what’s the upgrade status of enemy buildings.
We don’t know what places have Determined buff without visiting external website.

All this leads to a very restricted non-tactical gameplay of forming huge blob of players around commander and overpowering everyone that comes across its way.

Adapt A Dev: A Wasted Last Chance?

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Don’t set yourself up to see changes immediately. The tournament just ended and the team still needs time to parse the feedback, identify issues and prioritize solutions. If you expect immediate change just because the tournament is over, you will be disappointed. Change takes time and careful consideration.

- Time is not an issue for me personally. I could wait a year to see WvW game mode rise. I don’t know any other game that features a this kind of fortification siege and defending, big field fights style of gameplay as WvW does.

What I’m very often concerned about, however, is what is ArenaNet’s vision for the game mode. How would you like to see WvW being played?

I recognize that you have the style of adding more things rather than going back to fix what is broken. Having played WvW since the beginning there are bugs that I come across daily. From small bugs like abrupt stops in supply consumption to huge game-changing ones like defenders being unable to repair a gate that is being attacked because AoE goes through doors. Using siege weapons like arrow carts is very awkward because you don’t get top-down camera view while using them. None of the projectiles arc, so any kind of ledge leads to projectiles being obstructed.

Will PPK reduce fights

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

What If ppk was a tick score like holding a keep. That is – not really a ppk, but25-30 points per tick for the server with the most kills (out of 725 instead of 695) , maybe everyone can play how they want without drastically changing play style of everyone.

- This is absolutely how it should be done. Fixed number of points per kill would change things too much and would be difficult to balance in relation to holding objectives. I like the idea that the server with most kills in the tick period would receive a flat bonus to their score.

If you play WvW to duel

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

If he goes and captures a camp, good for him, don’t get me started on how pointless PPT is again.

- Points are the name of the game in this mode. I don’t know why would anyone enter WvW if they don’t care about concepts like attacking and defending towers, running supplies, securing routes and siege. “PPT is pointless” is like playing chess and saying cornering the king is overrated.

If you play WvW to duel

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

but when you see someone standing around and not dying while enemies are present, you need to stop and ask yourself “whats going on here?”

- A match that is even doesn’t often happen. I’d wait for reinforcements too.

10 times out of 10, those duelists will not poop on your game mode if you dont kitten with them and they are in fact nice people if youre lookin for new friends. cuz disrespectful kittenheads dont get duels, they get stomped.

- They poop on the gamemode that is WvW by breaking the expectation that you can trust your teammate to not betray you on the time of need. This is why sPvP is the game mode for them. There you can duel all you like without other people coming to interfere with your duels. I’m sure it’s not too hard to understand for you if you tried.

If you play WvW to duel

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

People like you have no honour for lack of a better word. To you spawn camping would be justified because you are obligated to as a wvw player because they are the enemy.

- Hah! You’re saying it’s honorable to leave your team mate to die. You probably won’t even help your team mate who is getting killed by enemy 1v1 because you think it’s a duel and they “deserve” it for not having 1v1 build on their character. Nobody gives a **** about your ego.

If you play WvW to duel

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

sounds like op walked into a duel and got his face smashed by someone he thought he was ganking

- Not quite. I walked into 3v1 situation that turned into 1v1 situation against an enemy who was quite well prepared to play 1v1. On top of that my own side players, in addition to doing nothing whatsoever to help, said me rude things. I might as well call them backstabbing spies.

If you play WvW to duel

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

You’d be pleased to know that there’s an actual game mode that’s focused solely on small scale fights and duels:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp

Meanwhile, don’t be the jerk that lets your team die because you insist on dueling with enemy. WvW is meant to be a field of war where everything green is your friend to assist and everything red is your enemy to attack.

Signed,
The WvW players

No more white swords

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

The biggest problem in WvW bar none is the lack of knowledge. You don’t know where your enemies are and you don’t know where your own team is going, save for those tagging along with commander. The only ways we can know what’s going on is to look for white and orange swords. Leaving scout to key locations to type their findings on team chat is clunky alternative.

My suggestion:
Change the structure of vision so that you see on the map everything that any player on your team sees. So if a scout sees a zerg moving on the canyon, everyone’s map would show the players as the scout sees them (red dots). If the scout tags along with the enemy zerg, the team would have longer vision of the zerg’s movements.

I think this suggestion would significantly move the focus towards player vs. player fights away from player vs. door fights. It would also intrinsically reward any work that scouts are doing and give incentive to break away from blob to have larger map coverage and control.

Why won't people care about bloodlust?

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Happening just now. I understand that there’s no personal gain for capturing those ruins, but I thought that at least in the highest tier people would think of their team more. Those stats can and will make difference in blob vs. blob and skirmish battles alike.

Compare:
Ascended armor gives 90 points of stats.
Bloodlust gives 180 points of stats.

So getting bloodlust is comparable to giving everyone armor two grades above ascended.

Why won't people care about bloodlust?

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Actually no team got the bloodlust on one of the borderlands. I held 2 ruins for about 10 minutes before I just gave up since nobody bothered to capture the third ruin. It was full map with queue and all.

Why won't people care about bloodlust?

in WvW

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

+30 all stats for every member on your side across 4 maps. Enemy loses their bonus. Takes 2 players to capture 3 ruins. Nobody gives a **** even when I say it on chat. Tier 1 server, reset night.

Discuss.

edit
Jade Sea is now 500 points ahead of their competition because they got level 2 bloodlust. What a joke.

(edited by Zenith.6403)

Why do you lose bloodlust stack when you go u

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I also used the analogy because that’s what it feels like to me by saying “I want to have all my stacks stay even if I don’t have a means of keeping them”.

- Spending great deal of time underwater to stack sigil after going down seems like a drawback to me. That time could be spent more productively.

Anyway, what was the point of this thread? Oh, right, complaining about something which works the way it does for a good reason.

- One should never balance a game by removing player convenience or breaking logic. Balance the numbers, that’s what they are for.

Why do you lose bloodlust stack when you go u

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I don’t know how to break this to you, but stacking a sigil and then getting rid of the sigil but keeping the effects? Seems pretty, I dunno, “exploit-y” to me. But then, that’s just me . . . can’t imagine a meat-side game I’d play which would allow that sort of thing. “Oh, I built 20 armies in Ukraine but moved them to Mongolia, but I still get the benefit of 20 armies when defending Ukraine, right?”

- Right. It could also be seen that your character is building up bloodlust by attacking with a weapon holding a sigil that loses its progression benefit as soon as you reach max stack. This can be seen as trade-off, if you’re spending lots of time stacking the bloodlust with inferior weapon before you switch to your main weapon. Furthermore instead of stacking bloodlust the player could be stacking toughness, healing or critical chance, which grants additional layer of player customization.

Or all stacking sigils could be removed altogether and replaced with something that gives flat bonus to attributes. Personally I think the stacking mechanic is more fun, but that wasn’t really the point of this thread.

5 years from now Items

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I love to make my character stronger whit skills items statcs and i don’t think i’m not the only one but seriously for everyone out there that thinks this is smart question as well, do u guys like to build the best gear out there on the first year of playing the game and use that gear years and years out of the line just keep on changing the skins on it ?

- Your character won’t become any stronger with gear grind. It’s just the same if you deal 1000 damage to a monster with 1 million health than if you dealt 1500 damage on monster with 1.5 million health. If stuff is dying too fast they are just going to buff resistances so that the player experience stays the same. It already happened and it was one line in patch notes.

What gear grind does is
1) separate population of players who have played for a long time from those who are just starting
2) slower player progression through the game
3) provide a cheap alternative to designing an actually challenging game

Why do you lose bloodlust stack when you go u

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

It was put in to fix the exploit of people using a stacking weapon to gain stack and then swapping to a non-stacking weapon, but keeping the stacks.

- I’d like to address the word ‘exploit’ here. Something that is designed and coded to work like that is not exploiting. I’m guessing they removed stack loss when switching between land weapons because losing the stack like that would be stupid. But then they forgot to do the same for swapping between water and land weapons.

There are much, MUCH better ways to balance a feature like stacking sigil without outright punishing the player. I think ANET should hire some player experience specialist on their ranks.

Why do you lose bloodlust stack when you go u

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Why? Because it makes no sense to lose it. If it’s a balance concern them why not make the stack inactive during water battles and weapon swaps?

Why do you lose bloodlust stack when you go u

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

It’s nice to know that at least the player can spend 10 gold to fix an issue that shouldn’t be there in the first place.

Why do you lose bloodlust stack when you go u

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Because this forum limits title length to 45 characters which is not enough to say a full sentence, here’s the full title of this post:
Why do you lose bloodlust stack when you go underwater?

What is with this buggy game? 25 hard-earned bloodlust stacks are lost as soon as you drop to water with your character. Those stacks aren’t lost if you simply weapon-swap during battle for example.

What do I press if I DON'T want to kick my te

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Yes I think so. Fight to the death!

What do I press if I DON'T want to kick my te

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Full title:
What do I press if I DON’T want to kick my teammate?

As it seems, if your party member wants to kick another member, you have no choice but to agree with the decision or you’ll never get rid of the prompt. This has been bugging me ever since I started partying with other people.

(Noob): Is crafting worth it?

in Crafting

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Ascended armor should be the least of your priorities. I just calculated what a full set of ascended gives over exotic:
+14 primary stat and +11 for two secondary stats, 54 armor (medium armor) and 6 defensive infusion slots where you can get 30 stats (vitality OR toughness OR healing power).

Compare it to that Borderlands Bloodlust buff level 1, which gives 180 points worth of stats to everyone on your side in WvW and disables the same bonus for every enemy. You might see some odd individuals flipping it every now and then but most don’t even bother with it. And what about all the characters that are running around without food and oil buffs active?

It’s a drop of water in a sea, but if you really want perfect character then go for it.

And this is why you should change your policy

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

No, we should keep silent and hope Anet randomly stumbles upon bugs we are experiencing? That’s a brilliant idea, truly.

- If company policy is that they will only spend time fixing critical bugs for economic reasons, then you submitting bug reports and typing posts about lesser bugs is about as productive as praying for a miracle. Actually praying for a miracle probably takes less time and then you can move on with your life. I don’t know what’s wrong with the company. Poor management? Lack of long term vision? Financial troubles? Who knows? We are not in position to ask for them to do things. They don’t have a whole army of engineers just fiddling their thumbs and waiting your orders.

And this is why you should change your policy

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Without players there is no game. Without a ’’community’’ Anet couldn’t make money off the game and many people working for them would lose their jobs.

So threating the community with respect (and vice versa!) is important.

- No, I’m serious. You vote with your wallet what kind of games interest you. You vote with your time if you play this game or do something else. I’ve seen people write posts the size of essays in this forum every day. Apparently they seem to think that if you bring up your issues they’ll get fixed in patch. That’s not how this works, not at all.

And this is why you should change your policy

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Well you’ve probably noticed the current resistance going on among your playerbase. People expecting you are working on big important things and when you finally break your silence and announce what you have planned for us, it turns out to be the exact opposite of what the majority of the players seem to want.

- You’re nuts if you think community is the one who’s calling shots here. This is Anet’s game. Go start your own company if you want things made differently.

Why make the game even easier...?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Yes, there are near constant reward chests being thrown at you everytime you log in, but the thing is; rewards don’t mean anything to me if I don’t feel like I’ve done anything spectacular to earn them.

- It sounds great that you’ve found this out. I have a feeling you can accomplish some goals in your life if you don’t become satisfied wasting your time with video games. These games operate with operant conditioning principle: do this arbitrary goal and then you’ll get rewarded. It’s a honey trap. I don’t understand why you’re asking for it to be better concealed.

GW2 and mathematics - The Equilibrium theory

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

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Zenith.6403

Why not add the content that players want to see in the game?

- What do players want to see? You have to understand that running a game is running a business. To make it a successful business you have to sell players stuff that they will buy. Take a look at League of Legends for example. You can buy skins for the champions you play and you can buy champions to experience the game in different way. That’s an ace business plan! Of course people are interested in how they experience the game.

Now compare this to what Anet is doing. Town clothes that can’t be worn in combat: who’s buying these? A minipet? Kit that repairs your armor…? Gambling for skins and items that give random temporary effect. All of this stuff is disconnected from the gameplay experience. You’re not going to see updates if the business is not generating money.

GW2 and mathematics - The Equilibrium theory

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

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Zenith.6403

Except that forum goers traditionally only represent about 15% of the gaming population and very often what they want is not what the majority wants.

- How can you back up the claim that opinions of 15% of players is not what the majority wants? If you go and poll 15% of the people who they are voting in the next presidential elections you’d have pretty kitten good estimate of the election result.

Gw2: A game for players, or a game for devs?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

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Zenith.6403

Really? There’s essentially no chance that this is true.

- AoE goes through doors and ceilings.
- No top-down camera view for targeting while using it, but a small sliver of screen from awkward point.

Character creation regret later on

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Use neutral hair colors like white and black. Those go well with any armor dyes.

Gw2: A game for players, or a game for devs?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Anyway, it is not only the lack of content that makes me feel uncofortable, its mostly about the overall sense that this game is no longer made by gamers, with gamers, to gamers.

- This is correct. The main focus was never in the gameplay. It would be spot on to call this game an attempt of simulation of a fantasy world.
Catapults, forts and supply camps. They’re treated like artwork or props in the world, not as gameplay elements. Nobody ever took a look at an arrow cart and said: “How could I improve the experience of using this cart?” Sure they meet the bare minimum needs of interactivity, but that’s not the reason they exist. If changes are made, the changes are in the numbers. Whatever keeps you playing. Look at the cash shop! They’re selling you more art! Fancy new town clothes for your character? Again, no gameplay element involved.

If you look at it this way it all starts to make sense.

Item Info/ Tooltip - BAD!

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

Consistency means you can’t have a situation where you deal 10,000 damage to a target whose health is not represented in numbers. That’s just poor design.

Immersion comes from looks: it makes sense that a big bulky monster deals a lot of damage. But health and damage are independent of looks. That’s not very immersive!

Item Info/ Tooltip - BAD!

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Zenith.6403

Zenith.6403

I would have no fun if the game world’s veneer got removed and all I had left was a dull, faceless database to move around in.

- It’s an interesting argument you’re making. I think immersion is rather binary value. Either the game is designed so that these numbers don’t matter, or they do matter. If numbers don’t matter, why is everything represented with numbers? This skill deals a critical hit that lowers target’kitten points by 10,000. Nevermind that the target could have 4,600 or 156,000 or 49.500 hit points in total. There has to be consistency no matter which path you choose.