Guild Wars 2

I like going full knight armor (toughness/power/precision) for pve.. having a lot of toughness makes it more fun taking on a lot of monsters at once. It’s just nice being able to take a massive beating with huge amounts of toughness.

I don’t bother with +critdamage because I don’t like the burst trait line that much, which is kinda necessary to max in glass cannon builds since it gives +30% crit damage. I don’t think glass cannon is that viable either in pvp or in pve.. you just die way too fast, there is little difference with cloth glass cannons.

It’s a great build, rampager and swords is just fine.. but you won’t get huge crits. Your auto attack and other sword abilities will do a ton of damage, but not in large spikes. Condition damage is about lots of bleeds that do +100 dmg x times per second, not about getting 2K crits.

In pvp you will be too squishy though to apply enough bleeds.. you’ll die long before the other will suffer any kind of bleed damage. In pvp most condition builds use carrion for the high vitality, which gives survivability.

I’m quite sure crit damage with full berserker gear will exceed 33%.

The burst trait line will also add up to 30% crit damage, depending how many points you spend.

That’s a condition build isn’t it? (or I’m going blind).. rampager means condition damage. If you want big numbers, you need axes/greatsword/rifle and berserker gear.

Rifle auto attack also will never do 1-2K crits, it does really low direct damage, it’s the other abilities that have high direct damage, volley and kill shot.

Only the engineer rifle auto attack gets 1500+ crits, since it is pure direct damage and no bleeding. Warrior rifle auto attack is more like 300-400 per shot plus a lot of bleeding, but the kill shot (burst ability) can go up to like 6-7K.

Since only one single rifle ability does bleeding, I don’t see any point in using the rifle with condition damage gear. Use swords with condition damage, everything else with berserker or knight or soldier gear. Rifle needs crit damage so the volley and kill shot hurts.

To be honest, engineer rifle is a lot more powerful in every way than warrior rifle. With an engineer shotgun you can do some insane burst damage that isn’t as easily dodged as warrior rifle shots. Warrior rifle is more meant to be a secondary ranged option, like the longbow not a main weapon. Warrior ranged efficiency is highly overrated by the other profession forums, just like the whole warrior class is overrated by people. We’re decent in pve, but in pvp we’re just practice targets, like golems.

I like full knight gear.. maybe mixed in with some soldier, the toughness is real nice for direct damage, and with mending and shake it off there is condition removal when bleeds get high.

Not so great for solo roaming, but good for the repair bill and good in groups.. having such high toughness is a nice change from all the glass cannon squishiness, and you don’t get instagibbed so much by this huge army of thief players that all jumped the backstab bandwagon.

I don’t go signet at all, it is just way too boring.. I want to use some bull’s rushes or kicks or shake it offs or frenzy’s now and then. Signets just sit there and do nothing. Warrior doesn’t need signets, a greatsword with 30-40% crit just from arms and some gear or dual maces will destroy any pve content at a rapid pace. We are entirely useless at pvp but we kill pve content like a beast. Get knight gear (toughess/precision/power) and go to town on does, drakes and moas.

I really like longbow, it’s kinda slow but it is an awesome siege weapon. The auto attack is worthless of course, but the other abilities are quite nice, good for dungeons and group events as well. Only need 10 points in tactics to get the range to 1200.

If you want to solo roam though, you have to roll a thief or mesmer. In the past rangers were good for that too, but not anymore. I’m not sure why people often name warrior in the same breath with thief and mesmer, we really can’t compare to those two.

Warrior is just really fun in pve though. I’m sure in the future when there come more dungeons, more areas, more pve content, warrior will be more wanted again. For a while there was BS + Frenzy + 100B, but then people realized how easy it is to avoid, and how it only works once a minute, and it got old and obsolete quickly.

We don’t really have anything else for pvp.. I guess the greatsword has some use because of mobility, but it can’t actually down anyone. Warriors just aren’t made for pvp… you don your knight’s armor (power/precision/toughness) and you do pve content, if you want to pvp you have to play another profession, you cannot pvp with warrior anymore, it only worked at the start when people didn’t know their professions that well yet. Now warrior is just a free kill, easily kited or bursted down.

If you want pvp points for monthly, wear a longbow and join the zerg, get five kills and return to pve. It will get boring and pointless since there’s no pve endgame of course.

For me it is quite suitable, since I find the spiritual energy (mostly anger- and ego- energy) that gets exchanged during pvp, very uncomfortable, I prefer pve now. I don’t think I’ll do pvp again until I have a friend to play with so we can roam together. I’m going to focus on getting that legendary greatsword, maybe even the special one that changes during day and night. I don’t think anyone can grind as well as a warrior with a greatsword.

I see a lot of wildly exaggerated claims flying around about thief damage.. whenever someone actually tests it and gets hard numbers, the damage is like 3x lower than what people claim they get killed by.

I thought the +25% speed asignet applies always, it just seems as if it doesn’t apply in combat because in-combat speed is slower than out of combat speed, so when you go in combat you lose speed and it seems as if the signet shuts off then, when it hasn’t. I’m pretty sure a thief with the shadow signet will run 25% faster in combat than others, it’s just slower than out of combat due to game mechanics.

So in short:
- If you nerf backstab by say 30%, the signet will still cause it to do too much damage, you’d have to cut it by 60% or so, and then backstab is useless for any other thief build
and completely useless for pve play, be it solo or dungeons.
- If you replace assassin’s signet active effect, you get rid of overpowered signet backstabs, while still retaining backstab usefulness for pve play and other thief builds.

I think what must be done here is quite obvious.

A -30% backstab damage nerf is not going to fix anything, signet backstabs will still be far too high, and it will stomp mainhand dagger into uselessness for any other purpose.

The only solution is changing assassin’s signet, replacing its active effect.. because just lowering it a bit still won’t solve these insane backstabs. A lazy but easy and simple solution would be changing it to a 5-10 stack might boon, that way the signet becomes useful for all builds, burst or tank or condition.

Like people said, backstab is not a very strong ability in itself, it will do only half the damage of a warrior eviscerate… the problem is that the assassin’s signet turns a moderate ability into an overpowered one. A +150% damage increase will turn any single high damage attack ability into an overpowered and unbalanced situation. If warriors had this signet, then people would get one shotted by 25K eviscerates for example.

3-6K is what backstab normally does, and since you cannot “spam” backstab in any way or form, this is certainly not too powerful at all. Backstab ONLY becomes a problem because of the assassin’s signet.

Nerf backstab, and the problem won’t be solved, since with the signet even at a -30% dmg nerf, backstab will still do too much damage.. except then it will be useless for anything but a signet build.

Simple logic says that if you remove the signet, backstab is balanced, even on the side of lowly powered compared to other profession’s abilities.

Maybe a mix between condition/precision/toughness and:

- condition/power/vitality.
or
- condition/power/toughness

That way you don’t have a total lack of power, the maximum possible condition damage, and both toughness and/or vitality for survivability, as well as enough crit, with +10% sword crit trait in arms on top of the precision, to get some use out of the Precise Strikes minor trait.

Seems to be a nice balance between dps and survivability.

Or you can go for full carrion: condition/power/vitality.. that way you have a lot of condition, a lot of power and still survivability from the ~28K health you’ll have.

I figure, heavy armor gives nice toughness, so why not go full carrion to get a lot of dps while still high vitality for staying alive. Carrion is also easy to get in exotics since it can be crafted, and other combinations may not exist as exotic level, only as rare, leaving you with lower stats.

No one (almost I guess) uses swords for direct damage, they’re meant to be dealing condition (bleed) damage, so I don’t understand why the third hit in the chain doesn’t cause bleed as well.

I would also love to see flurry changed into a single attack that causes like half the bleed stack/damage as flurry does now. It’s too easy breaking out of or interrupting the insanely long flurry animation, and flurry isn’t worth slotting frenzy for.

Robert.9086:

I’m going to go with a stealth nerf and I think S/D should be on that list.
Infiltrator’s Strike>CnD>Tactical Strike(2 second Daze) is better than PW in my opinion.

How is a two second daze better than +10K damage.

In my opinion, PW shouldn’t have been nerfed in its damage, they should have just removed the stun. It’s better to provide a way to avoid an ability than to downgrade the ability’s damage, since that greatly affects pve as well.

If they are smart, they will change the assassin’s signet’s active effect to give 5-10 stacks of might for a certain duration. That way you get rid of the glass cannon OP build, without nerfing any of the other builds.. and on top of that you now have a utility that is useful for all builds, instead of just one.

I assisted devs with balancing high fantasy rpg classes in other pvp games, often having whole lists of my suggestions all implemented with much success, so I’d like to think I have some clue.

The problem is, if they nerf backstab, then it will be really weak in any build other than glass cannon dual dagger. Without going full offense and using a 1min cd signet, backstab really isn’t that powerful at all.

It’s the damage stacking that causes these insane burst numbers, not the ability of backstab itself. I think a solution would be to give assassin’s signet another purpose, and completely remove the +150% damage. Without that signet, no one gets one shotted anymore, and more defensive thief builds can still do damage with backstab then, since they never used the signet in the first place.

How it is now isn’t going to last, I think everyone realizes that, but the nerf needs to come in a way that it only balances pure signet-using glass cannons, and not other builds as well, since the signet thief is the only build that is overpowered.. the others are not very powerful at all. If a nerf affects them, then you end up with ranger/elementalist mark II and yet another broken and overweakened profession.

The only way to do this that I can see, is changing the +150% damage from the assassin signet to something else. Maybe have it give a long duration of several stacks of might, to increase both power and condition builds, that way there is still use for all builds, but the backstab glass cannon is balanced and cannot instagib anymore, he’ll have to work for his kill like any other profession.

So in short, change assassin’s signet to give 5-10 stacks of might, to grant both power and condition damage, for x duration. This way it is useful to pop before you spam DB for example, or before you go in for the backstab CND combo, but it won’t generate these huge single BS numbers anymore that instakill even warriors.

It’ll be more user-friendly, and it’ll be useful for ALL thief builds then.

The problem is not just the insane damage, it is that there is no counter at all, due to mug being not only instant but also having up to 1200 range.. on top of that mug can daze, completely prohibiting anything you try even if you can react in under half a second.. which can’t be expected of the average player.

Against squishies you don’t even need C&D, just a stealth-traited mug + BS is enough to instagib them. Literally all the thief does then is tap F1 and 1 and he wins, having done well over 10K undodgable, unblockable damage from 1200 range.

Any damage a warrior can do can be avoided by dodging or blocking, since none of their moves are instant. The problem with thieves is that there is simple no time to dodge or block or even use abilities such as endure pain, because the onslaught is instantaneous.

Mug is instant with a 900-1200 range, meaning you will never know the presence of the thief before he comes, often the thief won’t even render on your screen at that range, and when they precast C&D the entire combo happens in less than a second.

Then when they’ve hasted, you’re downed in less than a second, and dead two and a half seconds, since the finishing takes two seconds under haste.

No profession in the game has any tools to counter this instant death. The only way to survive is having a lot of health and toughness, but even then you won’t have much health left, and a few heartseekers will finish you off, which will come very fast because the thief is still hasted.

Have less than 18K+ hp and you’re dead (this is not glass cannon, which means the thief will kill almost anyone like this, not just glass cannons).. and if you have the most possible, like 29K, then your dps will be so low that you won’t down the thief before the heartseekers down you, and they come hard since you’re low health.

First I thought thief wasn’t overpowered, but I have to take that opinion back, it’s just not balanced. Fights are meant to last more than 3 seconds.. and like I said a thief will not just down glass cannons in under 3 seconds, they will down & kill anyone except full tanks like that.. and tanks will still go down to the heartseekers, since they cannot do enough damage to put pressure on the thief with their measly ~400 dps.

If they use haste, they can kill someone and finish them before haste ends, since haste speeds up the finishing move as well, so there is not even a way to get up from the downed state. You’re walking down the path, and within two and a half seconds your character lies dead and defeated on the ground, not even downed, but completely dead, the thief still stealthed (cuz of a bug) and out of your screen before you can even see who got you.

I’m sure this is satisfying for the thief, but if it happens too often and they realize there is no counter for it with any profession, it will cause the victims to quit playing, especially considering the huge amounts of people rolling a thief to instagib people.

The problem is, that there is no way to counter this.. there’s no way anyone can react against a mug, precasted C&D and BS.. it happens instantly and there is nothing in this game that any class can do to counter this. So this issue is not a case of L2P or of finding a way to counter, since there is no counter.. you cannot dodge something that happens instantly and without any kind of graphical warning and from 1200 range. Often times the thief won’t even render on your screen at that range.

Some posters here are right though, thieves will get nerfed, there is no way to justify the downgrades to the other classes if thieves remain as they are. Thieves may be “right” on their own, they’re not that overpowered in general, they’re just way too good compared to other professions. Anet said they want fights to last something like 30-40 seconds, while a thief will end a fight in half a second, and a lot of people are getting seriously frustrated getting instagibbed by the army of people who all jumped on the thief bandwagon. Hitting two buttons to kill someone in half a second, may suit the lore of the thief, but it causes too much frustration.

Yeah it does seem like you’re being politely asked to play a dual axe/rifle warrior.

So many angry people focusing on the times a thief killed them in 3 seconds, completely forgetting all the times they killed a thief in two hits as well.

A thief dies when you sneeze at him, you can talk about shadowstep and stealth, but stealth does not make a thief immune to damage, just continue swinging and you’ll kill the thief right there in his stealth. A stealthed thief has to remain very close to you because the stealth only lasts two to three seconds.

The thing with a thief is that he kills fast, but dies even faster. If the devs listen to the whining about this, we’ll have yet another broken and usuable profession/build.

You only need like 45% crit chance my friend, put the rest in power/critdamage or toughness/vitality. That will net you far more benefits than going insane with the precision.. there is just no need to have such high crit chance.

I tried every ranged profession now, but to be honest none of them are as good as ranger with a shortbow was pre-nerf. It was just quite a powerful weapon together with the pet for pve a lot better than I first realized, and quite strong for pvp with quickening as well. In my opinion though, it was not overpowered.. and now it is too weak.

Maybe they will make #2 shortbow more powerful, but that will only benefit condition builds, which I guess is the shortbows original purpose. Problem is that the power build, with the longbow, is so weak that it’s not viable. Now you’re forced to be a condition ranger if you use the shortbow.. which will cause you to lose against anyone who has low enough lag to remain faced to you.

My opinion on a solution:
- Greatly buff shortbow skill #2.
- Remove positioning on shortbow #1.

This would make condition builds viable again.

But now you have no power build, all rangers will have to go for condition then. So it
is necessary to greatly (and I mean greatly) upgrade the longbow. Seriously reduce the range penalty, increase #1 damage to double current damage and bring rapid fire up to warrior rifle volley level, same duration and same damage. (which means more damage with less arrows on RF)

Sword is meant to be used in a tanky condition build.. not power, you go condition/vitality/toughness.. you’ll be very hard to kill and 1vs1 you’ll do major bleed damage and will usually win. Warrior sword is the best condition damage in the game, save maybe confusion against skillspammers.

It’s best for 1vs1 situations, it is basically a dueling build.

The good thing about condition damage is you only need one stat for it, for power builds you need 3 stats (power/precision/critdamage as opposed to just condition).. so you can put the rest fully in vitality and toughness to be unkillable.

I do think warrior sword is probably one of the strongest builds in the game for 1vs1.

You’re right Criminal, I apologize, I just wanted to motivate people to not quit yet.

I gave up on ranger, because it simply has too many problems. Even if this gets fixed in a few weeks, the ranger is still plagued with problems that won’t be fixed within the next year, and a 40ms increase after they fix QZ still means a substantial dps downgrade.

So before I quit the game I decided to give rifle warrior a chance.. as I don’t want to melee.. and boy, did that return my motivation to play: I recommend it! It’s not necessarily overpowered, but it sure is powerful enough and more importantly it is incredibly fun. I don’t even use a second weapon set apart from the warhorn heh, I leave the first three slots empty.

It’s so much fun shooting someone down with auto attack, then rifle butting them back as they come close, letting loose an 8K volley on frenzy, then watchng your rifle line up to and seeing the pellets rush at the target to create this beautiful massive crit with kill shot.

Before you quit the game, with all its problems, I recommend playing a rifle warrior just for the sheer fun. I don’t really care about the bad management anymore really, I’m just going to rock my new rifle warrior until I’m bored, that way I get my money’s worth in the end, the game is good enough for that.

I planned to go back to guardian, but the latest patch ruined guardian greatsword and put a cross through that.

Please just completely reverse whatever was done to the Ranger profession, there was no animation glitch. Even if there was some tiny glitch that no one ever noticed, then it will stil be better to completely reverse the change.

Even if you manage to fix what went wrong and get it to 40ms, that is still a +7% drop in dps.. a +7% dps drop just to fix an animation glitch not a single player noticed, is not acceptable.

The game was far better before any of the beta changes ever got applied, so it seems as if one team created the initial game, and then another team started systematically destroying it during and after beta, wildly downgrading and ruining entire professions and builds and weapons left and right. This game could have been the one that toppled WoW, easily even.. all the tools were there.. but it is being destroyed now, it gets destroyed into the ground further with every weekly update as more professions and builds become invalid even for solo pve, and I don’t think it will survive until its first expansion.. one more update/patch like this and a lot of people will quit.

The change to the guardian greatsword for example, shows how there is absolutely no communication between designers and players. Every single player in the game would have said: “NO don’t change the order of the skills, and NO don’t double the recharge of symbol of wrath, as it cripples dps and combo field availability, just replace the retaliation with another boon, since the change was done because of retaliation.”

Now tons of players are deleting/quitting their guardian because the change made it unplayable to them and effectively applied a massive, unintended nerf to offensive guardians. It won’t get fixed, because none of the previous overnerfs got fixed either (example: ranger longbow & elementalist dmg). These kinds of extremely low quality, shot-in-the-dark gameplay changes really worry me, especially since they’ve been happening since beta.

This whole latest update and this ordeal gives me a feeling of unacceptable unprofessionality.. any of us here on this forum could have handled this issue a lot better than what’s being done/not done.

I don’t think they “hate” the ranger class or anything, I just get this feeling that they really don’t care about the further development of this game. The graphics of this game are so beautiful, and the gameplay concept is quite good.. but now it’s as if they just gave up on sustaining the game.

I don’t know, maybe they wanted to get a certain amount of money from the initial sales, and once they got that due to the insane hype, they just put the game on minimum staff, minimum priority, and move on to something else. What shows this might be true as well, is the complete lack of forum feedback.. they just don’t communicate with the community at all, even though a simple post now and then would completely take away people’s worries. Unpaid volunteer moderators on social forums do better than this.

Ditton.3149:

I think the error is that we were doing that kind of damage in the first place, Warriors will get theirs..the only thing keeping them from the nerf bat imo is that they are indeed using other weapons and builds..its easy to see from the gripes on here that most Rangers were using short bow and it was not the only viable weapon, its just the only one that did what damage you think is right, well guess what..I think its loud and clear that isnt the damage they want the class doing and they want all weapon choices to be viable.

The other weapons aren’t unviable because the shortbow is so strong, they are unviable because they are simply so weak that they cannot be used for anything. The shortbow before this patch really wasn’t doing too much damage, not anywhere near too much.. the longbow and greatsword and axe simply do really, really bad damage.

Even if they would let this broken shortbow remain as it is, it would still be far better than the other weapons. It would be useless yes, but still far better, since the others are beyond useless in pvp and higher level content. Even in heavily downleveled content with exotic gear, the longbow will still take ages killing trash beasts, even if you use rapid fire + QZ.. it’s just incredibly weak.. and then the moment your enemy is closer than 1000 range, you stop doing damage alltogether.

No Linik, the damage reduction on crossfire direct damage is about 35%.. not 3%. For condition builds the downgrade is about 15%, for power builds the downgrade is over 35%. This can’t be intended though, since the patch notes didn’t say anything about a downgrade, it just mentioned a fix to an animation problem.

Sorry Kildari, I will trust my own numbers first, I’m also not the only one that counted far more than 16 arrows, read back a few posts. I get in only half the amount of arrows with QZ than I did before the patch.

A few more patches like this and you won’t see any players at all anymore, the word of unplayable professions will get around fast on the net. The point of having classes is so that you can choose what suits you best, now you’re forced to choose between the two or three only viable professions available. If you want to play seriously then you’re forced to choose between warrior, thief and mesmer.. two of which just got nerfed hard as well heh.

On power builds the damage nerf is far greater than just 15%.. it’s over 35% there.. if you include quickening zephyr, a 50% damage nerf. Crossfire during quickening zephyr is now about as fast as normal crossfire before the patch, as shown as well in the videos of Ituhata. In 4 seconds you get in 12 arrows or so instead of 25.

Shortbow was not very strong before this patch, it did not do a lot of damage compared to other professions, be it with a condition or with a power build, but after the patch now it is not usable at all, even against trash monsters in solo pve.. and forget doing your personal story quests or pvp.

Even if it is repaired to be 40ms slower as the patch note says, that is still a notable downgrade that you will feel in pvp. I don’t understand how anet can call this an animation fix when they slow down the fire rate of the ranger’s only damage source.

In the case of shortbow it’s not 40ms.. where as we could fire 25 arrows in 4 seconds with quickening, we can now shoot 13 arrows in that same time span. Without quickening the damage of shortbow crossfire (without bleeding) is cut by about 35% as well.

Whether it’s a bug or intended, we don’t know yet.

Right now rangers cannot be used for any content except downleveled solo pve. (lvl1-25 areas).. since we hit like a wet noodle, at around the level of elementalist staff water auto attack.

It’s almost as if the team that created this beautiful game, got replaced by another team that is now systematically ruining the gameplay, build after build, profession after profession.

It seemed to have started at the last beta.. professions such as elementalist got broken completely, weapons such as ranger longbow became entirely useless for any kind of game content, instead of making guardian scepter useful, then just added range, which changed nothing, etc..

At first I still had faith, just initial balance issues I thought.. but this last patch is rapidly breaking down what trust I had. The weakest profession in the game (elementalist) got downgraded even further with a 33% damage decrease, one of the most fun weapons (guardian greatsword) was made completely counter intuitive, as well as much weaker.. etc.. it’s just devolving from bad to worse now.

It’s almost as if the team that created this beautiful game, was fired, and got replaced by another team that is now systematically ruining the game, build by build, profession by profession.

Polaritie.4851:

Um, Whirling Wrath got a cd reduction, didn’t it?

That’s your extra dps.

No it didn’t, it’s still 10 seconds.

And yeah, this change to guardian made me lose all faith in anet’s gameplay philosophy. I loved the guardian greatsword, I loved the damage and I loved how the skills were placed, now both the damage and the placements are ruined.. good job breaking yet another profession/build.

I doubted between guardian and ranger, this change to guardian got rid of the doubt, as there’s no way I can play a guardian like this, but then they went ahead and destroyed the only ranger build as well, in the same breath, by cutting shortbow damage in half.. not sure what to do now.

The only thing I can think of is that they are so afraid of high ranged dps, that they rather completely break all ranged options.

Knote, shortbow auto attack was not super strong, longbow auto attack was just super weak, so it seemed as if shortbow was powerful. A warrior or guardian for example does far more damage to 5 monsters at once than a shortbow can do to 1 monster.

The longbow cannot be used at all for anything but WvW aoe on skill #5, it’s not even viable for solo pve content, especially at higher levels, since you and your pet will die long before the longbow ever kills anything, even on downleveled content (1-15 as lvl70) it will kill monsters extremely slow.

Where did they respond?

The point is that the slowdown is far higher than what they wrote in the update notes Freky. I also just said that the longbow is still worse.. it’s never been a viable weapon. Before the patch it did like 25% of shortbow damage at ~400 range, now maybe 40% or so, and that’s without crossfire bleeds, it’s not usable for anything, it’s like trying to fight as an elementalist with only staff water auto attack.

Crossfire under QZ is now 13 arrows instead of 25 arrows (a 50% dps decrease), while the direct damage of normal crossfire has been cut by about 30-35% as far as I can tell, it could be more, because it takes me roughly twice as long to kill a monster now, without using QZ.

Lol, the sad part is that it is still better than longbow, which goes to show how horrible the longbow really is. The shortbow got nerfed so hard that the ranger cannot be played in pvp and wvw anymore, but the longbow is still worse heh.

I hope to Pale Tree that this is just a major unintended screwup.

That’s what I said, during quickening zephyr after patch now, the shortbow does 50% less damage than before. Shortbow damage during quickening has literally been cut in half, since you only get in half as many hits before the boon ends.

Normal fire rate damage (without bleeds) has been cut by about 30% at least. It takes me almost twice as much time to kill a monster as before the patch.

Ituhata, my bad, I forgot about condition duration increases, I apologize.

No, because I can stack six bleeds now without quickness (6 normal, 7 for a split second), which is less than I could before (7 normal, 8 for a split second), so this has nothing to do with quickness.

This means the slowdown is far higher than 40 miliseconds.

My other weapons are equally fast with quickness than they were before the patch, so again this has nothing to do with quickness.

(Ignore this post, a test cuz I can’t see the thread anymore.)

Like Leogolas said, try using QZ, you’ll notice how crossfire is twice as slow under that boon now.