Guild Wars 2

Coulter.2315:

Anyone saying “hard mobs are bad because SSC” is being deliberately misleading because they know SSC has a lack of content and that is why it is empty, it has nothing to do with the mob difficulty.

SSC has a ton of content, there’s events kicking off all the time, champion mobs in static spawns, T4 resources to gather, unique resources, not to mention the Queen event, and two jumping puzzles. It is insanely difficult to move around SSC without bumping into an event or three.

SSC has content coming out the wazoo, anyone saying that there isn’t has either never been there, has a different definition of “content” to me, or is deliberately massaging the truth to back up their own arguments with regard to the popularity of challenging content.

SSC is a harder zone than any other currently in the game, has a denser number of events, and, aside from the Queen event, it is sparsely populated at best by players. It is a sad fact that people who insist on challenging content will hang around only for as long as that content is fresh, once they become used to it they will go off to join a zerg train and complain about how the game is too easy.

I’d like to see outfits (all of them) turned into armour sets.

SkiTz.4590:

You realize 6 hours of doing PvE is already VASTLY more rewarding (materialistically speaking) than 6 hours of PvP

If you WANT the PvP legendary backpeice, you bust your butt off in PvP. That’s how it is. You already have plenty of access to legendaries in PvE…What’s wrong with PvP getting an exclusive one? If you want one, you are more than welcome to go into PvP..

To address your first point, you’re wrong, since the reward tracks were introduced, PvP has become FAR more rewarding. I wanted to deck a character of mine out with a full set of ambrite weapons, I was able to do that trivially in PvP; it would have taken me much longer in PvE. The same goes for dungeon skins, much easier to gain in PvP than by actually running dungeons.

As to your second point, it doesn’t matter how much I bust my butt off in PvP, I won’t be getting that backpiece. Would I like the backpiece? Yes, of course I would but I’m not going to get it, no matter how many hours I put in. Actually I don’t mind that too much, it’s annoying and I’d much rather it was a title or a mini but hey, I can’t have everything. Mind you, don’t you find it weird that the fact that the backpiece is legendary quality only has meaning in PvE and WvW environments? Makes me wonder why it wasn’t ascended quality, like all the other hard to get backpieces out there.

Actually PvP is an excellent example of the point of this thread: it doesn’t matter whether you win or lose, how skilled or otherwise you are; as long as you put in the hours, you can complete every reward track, and reach every rank. I could literally lose every single match and still advance to Dragon rank with a Balthazar backpack, and a full set of skins for all dungeons; it would just take time. I’m fine with that (even though it does mean that one day I will be the most appallingly inept Dragon rank in the game) because there are very few actual blocks to progress in PvP. I think there are a couple of armour (or weapon … I can’t remember) skins and soon this backpack, that I won’t ever get but pretty much everything else is achievable. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for PvE in HoT if the betas are anything to go by … though there are other threads that deal with the specifics of things like masteries.

Hard content is great for people who enjoy it (I really don’t) and I absolutely think it should be in the game; however I do think that it should be entirely optional and provide rewards that are (for the most part) achievable elsewhere, albeit for a greater investment of time.

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

maddoctor.2738:

The same problem that exists with nearly everything else in the game, is also here. That is, why do the content if I can just do the best farm and buy it?

Because apparently more challenging content is more fun for a number of people (or so we are told, quite forcefully, on other threads) so wouldn’t you do content because it’s fun? Why on earth would somebody deliberately give themselves a less fun experience if there were no difference in reward between the more and less fun options?

Either the “more challenging content” crowd actually mean that they want more/better loot; or they find challenging game play a reward in itself. It’d be nice if people were a bit more honest about which of those options is true.

Substance E.4852:

People are already complaining that they won’t be able to instantly acquire all the new content in the xpac the second it goes live? They are upset that they will have to actually play the game?

No, literally NOBODY is saying that.

What some of us are saying is that we do not like the vista/skill point-a-like mastery points and would rather acquisition of masteries were tied only to the mastery bar. This means that, yes, people would need to play the game to advance their masteries. However we would be free to play those aspects of the game that we enjoy rather than be forced to take part in specific activities or forego any chance at advancing our characters.

Whether or not ToKs should affect the mastery bar is another discussion entirely (but thanks for derailing this one) though, for the record, I would be very much on the side of no, they shouldn’t.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The one they designed is one similar to other expacks, where you progress your character by “leveling” it in the new map and asking them to redesign the whole thing now is an excercise in futility. The only thing I can think of is to answer the guy why his idea is bad when combined with the new system and how it works and not encourage him to hope for the impossible.

Well that would be fine if it was the case … but it isn’t. If I had to level masteries in a region relevant to those masteries that would be fine, I’m sure even I could find an area of Verdant Brink that I didn’t hate. ;-) However what they actually gave us is this kittening stupid idea of having to get mastery points in order to use the experience we’ve already earned. It’s like if you wanted to level up in the vanilla game you would have to complete a skill challenge; if you didn’t complete a skill challenge, all experience earned after the bar was full would be wasted. It’s a ridiculous system and one that really punishes the lower skilled (for whatever reason) player beyond what is reasonable. As I’ve said before, by all means let the acquisition of mastery points give a substantial bonus (maybe even as much as giving a full mastery level) but to make them a road-block is a bad idea that will alienate players initially and, when they redo the system in the future (which will happen) will annoy all the players who completed that content to advance their masteries.

Frankly I’m not sure how murdering mordrem helps me understand the Itzel any better than jumping around in the Shiverpeaks can help me learn to glide but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What you are asking for is no different than asking for the ability to buy an expansion in a game, such as WoW, immediately get those 10 new levels and have all the faction grinding done so you can be at max strength on day one. It’s like a new person buying this game and wanting to be a day one max strength level 80 with full exotic gear. It’s not good for the character and it’s not good for the game for an expansion to hand out the rewards of playing before you actually play.

That’s not even vaguely what I’m asking for. What I actually am asking for is to not have to contend with picking up Mastery Points around the map (I’m fine if they confer a chunk of exp or whatever, just don’t make them essential to advancement). I want to progress through the masteries (and even if they did work – which they don’t by the way – I wouldn’t use tomes to get them) via regular post-80 exp gain. Why does that offend so many people? I’m not campaigning to take anything away from your game at all, I just want to make mine more accessible.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Explain to ANet how this is an advantage for them having people quickly whip through their character progression model they’ve set up, and then have nothing to do till the next expansion.

I’m still here, playing my casual game and spending money in the Gem Store; I’ve been here since beta and I probably won’t quit any time soon. What will they lose if they make the expansion non-casual friendly? If they make progression a chore (for me) rather than a pleasure, chances are I won’t spend as much money next time around. That’s what.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you could get mastery points, just by leveling then do you even need to try the harder stuff until you have all your Masteries? In theory, someone could stay at the first waypoint and do the first events over and over again, leveling up and getting mastery points while never venturing deeper into the jungle.

So what? If that’s the way someone wants to approach the expansion why shouldn’t they? I really don’t like the Verdant Brink design, and playing there is going to be a chore for me; if I can make my passage through the zone less annoying by building up masteries before I go in there then why shouldn’t I? How I choose to progress my character doesn’t impact on how you choose to progress yours.

Rin.1046:

I think the problem people are having with the whole 3-4 maps thing is that they are only thinking 2 dimensionally. Many (if not all) of the 3-4 maps will have more than one layer. This means that technically each map could be the equivalent space of 2-3 maps, just that they will be layered on top of each other rather than side by side. So it may end up being that we get 6-12 maps worth of exploration in the same X and Y footprint of 3-4 maps.

I have to assume that you didn’t actually take part in the beta weekend, if you had then you couldn’t possibly come up with the idea that the “floor level” that we were playing at was even close to a full map of equivalent size; I’d say it was more like 50% of the usable area of a vanilla map … and that is, I think, being generous. So, let’s say that you get a generous double the usable area comparing HoT maps to vanilla (and seriously, I think that’s being super generous based on what I saw at the weekend) that still gives us the equivalent of 8 vanilla maps (assuming a comparable size … which is a large assumption) which is roughly half of the absolute minimum I would expect from a full expansion. Given the price tag I would expect to see the GW2 equivalent of WoW’s Burning Crusade, or Wrath of the Lich King; or GW1’s Nightfall, or Factions. Based on what we’ve seen (and datamined) thus far, it is looking as though we’ll actually be getting a fraction of that.

The thing is that if this expansion disappoints then people like me who purchased the legendary pack will be less likely to part with their money next time, not that we won’t buy future expansions necessarily but that we won’t pay a premium … we might even wait until it’s on offer … and that will hit future ANet right where it hurts.

I had no idea this was how masteries worked (can you tell how much “fun” I had in Maguuma?) I’d assumed (yeah, yeah, I know) that all I needed to do in order to increase my mastery level was to … level. I genuinely don’t care about disabling tomes or writs or any other means of fast-loading experience post-80 but I do not want to have to jump through some ridiculous hoops in order to progress through the expansion. Good grief if I didn’t enjoy the jungle already, having to get mastery points as well as exp will pretty much ensure that I hardly ever go there.

Please ANet, ditch the concept of mastery points … entirely and forever.

I don’t care for density at all, as in I find it immersion breaking and generally no fun at all. So I’d much rather see several sprawling maps than fewer, denser ones.

I would be bitterly disappointed of we get less playable area than one of the vanilla regions by which I mean, Ascalon, Kryta, Shiverpeaks, etc. and a comparable number of maps. From what I’ve seen, the triple-layered biomes don’t actually mean triple the land space, as there are kittening great gaps all over the place, making the three fit together a bit like a jigsaw. I am hoping that Verdant Brink is an extreme example and that other maps will have more conventionally traversable terrain in each biome.

I strongly suspect that I will in fact be bitterly disappointed.

I really wanted to like the greatsword but as has been said here it was simply not as good as dagger/warhorn in terms of anything! Still we have to bear in mind that this is a beta so hopefully ANet will jiggle about with the greatsword skills a bit to make it a comparable weapon in terms of control, damage and lifeforce generation as dagger/warhorn.

One issue I ran into was during an escort mission trying to get through beetle territory. The problem being that some of the beetles can only be harmed from the front but with the tight quarters of some of the areas it actually became a massive problem to get into position for that. Quite a few times the beetles had their snouts buried in a wall or were facing a cliff edge and I simply couldn’t manoeuvre myself into position to do any damage to them at all. In an open area (eg. Dry Top) the positional invulnerability is interesting but on narrow pathways in Verdant brink it’s just frustrating because quarters are too tight for the sort of mobility needed.

It’s not impossible to get into position but it is more frustrating than is, I think, intended.

Not being in my guild stopped me playing more than I did in the beta; I’m not bothered about being able to use any of the guild functions aside from chat but I really miss being able to talk to my guildies.

It’s also worth pointing out that your beta account is cloned from your live account, if you have unspent transmutation charges on live then you’ll have them in beta as well. I reskinned all of my equipment (sometimes more than once) on each of my beta characters.

Rylen.2147:

binidj.5734:

I would very much like to be able to deploy my glider before I jump. There’s been a few times I’ve missed a simple high-to-low glide because lag has delayed the opening of my glider. Although the problem is almost certainly with either my connection or machine, allowing us to deploy the glider before falling would largely remove the issue.

hold the spacebar when you jump and it comes out at the peak of your jump

That’s really helpful, thanks … I look forward to testing that next beta.

It sounds as though you’re a very similar player to myself. The content is hard enough to be not a great deal of fun for me but once you get past the first living story episode it shouldn’t really be a huge barrier (and the living story isn’t really a barrier so much as just frustrating) skillwise. Mobs are equivalent to those in Silverwastes, with some that have some extra tricks to make them super dangerous until you figure out what’s going on.

So I have no doubt that you’ll be able to do the content (if you can navigate around the map … but that’s another story) but as to whether you’ll enjoy it, I’d have to say that if you’re anything like me then the answer is “no” … but don’t let that stop you giving it a go next beta!

Lucius.2140:

binidj.5734:

So as ever there’s a split in the community between those players who want high difficulty mobs, and those players that really don’t … or don’t want them all the time anyway. Isn’t the solution to use mastery to access challenging content? So that in playing the game it becomes (potentially) harder.

This isnt even the challenging content they said theres going to be -.- . Its just people dont be used to the level.

I don’t know if you recall but way back in the mists of time (one of the beta weekends), the mobs were quite “challenging” and ArenaNet, after some complaints, dialled down the mob difficulty. There were quite a few members of the community who were made very sad by this decision, others were made very happy by it. There is a difference between “dont be used to the level” and “don’t enjoy the level the content is pitched at”. What I’m saying is that rather than make the baseline content hard, make the baseline content as easy as comparable zones (ie. Frostgorge and Orr … not Southsun) with progressively harder content being in harder to reach places.

People who enjoy challenging zones are easily bored, if you don’t believe me look at Southsun in comparison to Curse Shore or Frostgorge Sound, Southsun is quite a bit harder in general (although quite rewarding) but it’s empty except when it’s time to kill the Queen. Why is this? I think it’s because the people who want challenging content got bored and stopped playing there, whereas the people (like me) who like casual content are still pottering around the older level 80 zones, still in the game, still buying stuff from the Gem Store.

I’m not saying don’t include more challenging content, only that it’s not a great idea to set the bar of entry at a level that people aren’t comfortable with. Of course I could do the content, I’m sure pretty much everyone on this thread or who took part in the beta could do the content, but there’s a difference between being able to complete it and enjoying the experience. I didn’t bother with the Queen’s Gambit because I didn’t enjoy that sort of content but it’s great that it was there and that people could access it and (even the ones who didn’t use exploits) were able to get their Liadri mini. The thing about the Gambit was that it didn’t form a barrier to anything, if you wanted to be challenged, you could be but if you just wanted to charge around in the areas underneath you were free to do so.

ETA: Hardly any of my characters are Berserker geared, and I’ve been playing since beta so I have some idea of how to dodge … so thanks for all the smart comments but, as I said, there is a difference between not being able to complete content and not enjoying content.

What I enjoyed:

I really enjoyed the Revenant this time around, having the Shiro legend transformed the profession, had a bundle of fun bouncing around Frostgorge murdering sons of Svanir and Icebrood.

Reaper was great fun once I ditched the greatsword (a shame because I was really looking forward to it … but it was just too slow and utterly lacking in bite) and adopted dagger/warhorn with a few minions. I don’t think I spent enough time in shroud to really appreciate it (and oh how I wish there were a sort of pseudo-shroud that I could enter to look at the skills in my own sweet time … I’m a very slow study and even out of combat, there’s just not enough time for me to take in the skills) but it felt fun, and the new utilities were great. I regret not taking him to Orr or Frostgorge as I’m sure I could have had a much better time there.

Dragonhunter felt great, I really enjoyed playing it though I do take on board a lot of the criticisms that have been raised with regard to auto-attack speed, long cooldown on the cc skill, the general uselessness of the block on skill 3 (make the block a 1 second stun and I’ll love you forever ;-) ), and the requirement to be stationary for skill 2; despite those grumbles (and they weren’t game-breaking for me, just slightly irritating) I had a great time with it and I have no doubt that as I get to know the profession better I’ll enjoy it even more.

I hate to finish on a downer but I really hated Verdant Brink, it was so hard to get around (even with gliding) with so many dead-ends making it very hard to get to events (I could see them on the map but even when I was right next to them, couldn’t reach them) and if I fell (all too easy with no means of climbing back up) the scarcity of waypoints meant that I had a massive slog to try to get back to where I was. Hopefully the rest of the zones won’t be such a nightmare to navigate … I find that I need to be in the mood for jumping puzzles and being forced into a giant one is something that I’ll probably avoid once it goes live.

So as ever there’s a split in the community between those players who want high difficulty mobs, and those players that really don’t … or don’t want them all the time anyway. Isn’t the solution to use mastery to access challenging content? So that in playing the game it becomes (potentially) harder. At the moment as you gain more mastery points it seems that the game becomes easier, isn’t that the wrong way around? Don’t you want the content to become more challenging at “endgame”? Shouldn’t the challenging content be something that you work towards? Leave the “vanilla” jungle easy to navigate and not terribly challenging, and put the scary mobs in places you need skill or mastery to reach.

I would very much like to be able to deploy my glider before I jump. There’s been a few times I’ve missed a simple high-to-low glide because lag has delayed the opening of my glider. Although the problem is almost certainly with either my connection or machine, allowing us to deploy the glider before falling would largely remove the issue.

Finished 9pm BST

Gearing a new character was pretty annoying and I’d much rather be without any gear at all with a merchant at the start point to give me the gear I wanted. This would have the added bonus of having more choice on runes. sigils, and consumables … I found the choice in those pretty restrictive.

No it wouldn’t … it would stop the maps being filled with mindless trash mobs. Trash mobs aren’t challenging content, they are filler. I’d rather less filler so I can concentrate on the actual challenging content.

They are ridiculously OP for melee characters … almost certainly trivial for ranged.

Questions of how challenging mobs are or are not aside (you want to discuss that, there are other threads waiting for your opinion) I can’t help but feel that there are simply too many of them! Mordrem tendrils are a particular pain in this regard, it seemed at some points that you couldn’t walk 5 feet without one of the things throwing little red circles at you! Somebody (probably several somebodies) at ArenaNet have worked kitten hard to create the jungle and I’d really like the chance to look at it! Fewer mobs with a lower respawn timer would be good … give us a chance to breathe and enjoy the environment! Make fights epic not annoying. I had enough of this sort of mob density in early (and arguably current) Orr thanks awfully … if I want to wade through endless mobs, I’ll head there.

Quite enjoyed playing GS Reaper (knights gear, scholar runes), damage felt pretty solid but the chill was pointless as it didn’t seem to affect anything I was fighting … even bats were flapping out of range of me! Chill duration needs to be increased by quite a lot I think. At the moment, dagger/warhorn is a far superior combination than just using a greatsword; and that’s a crying shame because I really want to like greatsword.

Agreed, mobs are far too tough … specifically the snipers(?) … I get that they are supposed to be a dangerous ranged opponent but unless you’re playing a profession/build with reflects or blocks they are deadly. Give them a little mordrem friend and they are incredibly dangerous. This is really offputting when just trying to get around the map during the day.

Veteran tigers are pretty easy, the stoneheads(?) are much harder … I can’t help but feel that their dash ability takes them too far; on a ranged profession I suspect they’d be a piece of cake but for melees the distance is huge, dragging the fight out longer than is actually fun.

I pretty much agree with all of this, except the Ventari legend bit … sort of.

The defining word of the profession is “lacklustre” the dps is low (yes I know we don’t have the dps legend yet but the others need something), and the ability to take a punch is similarly disappointing (I ran two sets, Carrion and Clerics, and even in Jalis felt like I was made of wet tissue paper in both) I’m not saying that revenants should be able to face-tank wearing zerker gear but honestly they feel far more fragile than other professions in similar gear. This may be because they are in fights for so much longer than any of my other characters … even my support Guardian finishes fights quicker … I wish I were joking.

I did like Ventari, though it took a while to set up so if I was using it I really had to be using it from the outset of a fight. However in a fight using the hammer it felt pretty satisfying (possibly even a bit OP but I’d need to test it some more to check that). I didn’t use the staff because of it’s utter uselessness in solo play and the inability of the profession to weapon swap … a “feature” that feels tacked-on to fall in line with Engineer and Elementalist rather than because there’s any meaningful mechanic to support it.

Anyway, yeah “lacklustre” and without the ability to talk to others in my guild it was lacklustre and isolating … not an experience I’m eager to revisit.

I’ve played for a while without guild but it’s not something I want to do for very long. Might I suggest that rather than the system of gear (which is, I presume, the only reason this daft rule is in place) that we currently have, we instead have a single, soulbound, set of class armour and weapons with flexible stats, and runes/sigils similar to those we find in SPvP. Don’t let us trade the items or put them in the Mystic Toilet, instead allow us to customise a single set as often as we like, in the same way as we can legendary weapons.

I can’t think of any reason other than items that this isolation would be in place.

Happened to me fighting in Frostgorge near the zone edge. Since it is pretty much the only reasonable DPS available to the Jalis legend, I hope it gets fixed.

I’ve been experiencing this issue for a few days now, primarily in the Borderlands but also in Tyria though not as consistently.

While running it will appear that my character is moving slightly slower than normal, then after a couple of seconds it will appear to speed up to compensate. Once the slow/fast waves begin there is no point at which it looks as though my character is moving at the correct speed. Running alongside other characters there seems no loss or gain of net speed, it’s just a bit disorientating. One thing it seriously impacts is jumping, I’m missing even simple jumps because I can’t judge where my character should be when I hit the jump button.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Wuselknusel.4082:

I’m not ok with the game getting more casualized, but ANet wont change their mind on this one.

They will have to someday. Casuals come and go very fast and their supply is not infinite.

Really? I’m a casual gamer and I’ve been with GW2 since BWE2, so have a lot of my casual friends.

It was also very misleading as the chain animation only appeared on certain skill attacks, most of the time it looked exactly like a normal sword.

DeWolfe.2174:

Notice it’s the Mesmer’s whom love and praise the new system? Don’t worry your nerf is imminent

For the OP, yes I have to agree the Dev’s are trying to force play styles too much with this patch.

Well this is one Mesmer who loathes what this patch did to the profession. I used to run a clone-death build and it was a play style that I really enjoyed and had a fair bit of success with in SPvP and PvE (WvW not so much unless I was roaming) but most importantly it was the build that really clicked for me, prior to running clone-death I just wasn’t enjoying Mesmer at all. Now I’m sure that there are Mesmer builds post-patch that are extremely successful but if I wanted successful then I’d be running the meta on all my characters, what I want is to enjoy my gaming experience but with the Shatter or GT(Kitten)O attitude of the new system Mesmer just isn’t fun for me at the moment.

Thus far I’ve tested a few alts and a lot of them are the same or better than previous:

Hybrid power/condi warrior – currently broken … might be fixable but not without quite a few sacrifices, though it’d help if the bow and rifle traits had their paths swapped.
Regen/tank warrior – absolutely superb, used to be pretty lacklustre but is now insanely powerful.
Heal/tank guardian – not properly tested yet but things look pretty good.
DPS guardian – feels pretty good, though I’ll probably switch him to dragon-hunter when the time comes.
Zerker Ele – not much change.
Zerker Ranger – not much change
Heal/tank necro – since I’m not a fan of ground targeting I threw out the well build but have adopted minion mastery instead and am having fun with it. Not currently viable in dungeons due to shonky pet AI.
Condi engineer – feels pretty good and the guided missile is a laugh.

So some stuff was broken, some is the same, some is better, some is just different. In terms of trait acquisition, I can see why people would prefer the current system (I didn’t level anyone under the Patch 2 system but I understand it was horrid) though I really liked the system we had at launch. I’m really sad to have lost my beloved mesmer build but I guess I’ll just put him on the shelf for a bit and concentrate on the characters that weren’t broken.

gearedgeek.3725:

I have been constantly checking the the Facebook page as well the News page on the website for the items I want for my character to reappear in the store. I don’t check them daily because I have many other web sites that I check.

It wouldn’t matter if you did check them daily, ANet didn’t publicise the wings on their FB feed.

Out of curiosity, of those people who like the new system, how many played from launch? I ask because a lot of the “I love it” posts appear to be people who fell victim to the horrible trait acquisition changes made (relatively) recently.

It’s very pretty, just that it reminds me of Kamadan more than it does Lion’s Arch.

Cambeleg.7632:

C’mon, really? Just two days with a new system, and you’re asking for going back to the old one?

Well yeah, there’s much to recommend the new one like getting rid of all the “improvements” we got in the last big update, and divorcing trait lines from stats; but what makes me hate it is that it has destroyed a few of my builds for no better reason than ANet thinks I should play a profession in a certain way. I miss the flexibility (and UI where I could see everything on one page) of the old system because contrary to popular belief, not all of us made characters according to the current meta. They may not have been super-efficient builds but they were fun.

An example of ANet deciding how I play is making all necro wells ground targeted thus getting rid of the trait that made them that way, I mean that’s an improvement right? Wrong. I would gladly spend a grandmaster trait, hell an entire trait line, just to make wells PBAE again. Before consolidation I had the choice, now I do not.

Prior to the change I was happy with the builds of almost all my characters, now I’m happy with just under half of them.

Did ANet learn NOTHING from the Southsun finale debacle? It is sometimes not possible to log into the game every day of the week and stuff like these 24-hour sales actually puts me off logging in at all.

I find the new system utterly horrible, it’s broken at least one of my characters (because “play your way” only holds true as long as your way is the way ANet think it should be*) and a few of the others don’t really feel “right” at the moment. Being forced to go fully into a track is a nightmare, only seeing three tracks on the screen at one time is clumsy (yes, I know there are ways you can look at the traits in other lines without having the thing up on the screen but it’s not the best) and I loathe not being able to put lower tier traits in higher tier slots.

Frankly I’m feeling pretty demoralised at the moment.

Interestingly a few of my guild love the changes but I have to assume this is because their builds are more in line with the way that ANet thinks their profession should be played.

• eg. ANet thinks that Mesmers shouldn’t be using retributive effects as part of their builds and that Shatter should be at the heart of everything. Regardless of how I want to play the profession.

GummiBear.2756:

Mind explaining what you are loosing exactly? for me it sound more like something like that might become better in fact, the extra bounce you get as baseline, and the stuff you do loose is some of the glamour traits only from what i can see which it dont sound like you are building around it per say, and then you get a fair amount of extra traits you can take as you get 3 full lines

Actually I think that the situation isn’t quite as bad as I had thought it was! Mostly because I got confused about minor traits because of the layout on Dulfy (not Dulfy’s fault at all, mine for not translating it properly) so the build is supported by the minor traits. However what I am losing is the conditions inflicted by clones when they are destroyed which is fairly significant (cripple and bleeding, vulnerability or weakness to up to 5 targets) and something I’d rather not lose. The glamour/confusion thing is pretty big, I just didn’t mention it above (don’t ask me why I didn’t mention it … brain fart on my part) but as a build that does pretty much all of its damage with conditions (base damage on a staff isn’t great) taking one of my primary conditions away feels harsh. In the normal way of things I use a staff (rather than sword/focus) and timewarp as my PvE elite, giving me 4 glamour fields on my bar.

The new “Duelling Master” trait sounds like it would be great … except that it also sounds like it will put up a visible aura, identifying me as the mesmer which is a bad idea when playing “find the mesmer” with a pack of clones. The changes to Chaotic Dampening (I know, I don’t have it at the moment but in the new system I would if …) mean that it is only useful when a chaos shield is up, another no-no when trying to remain inconspicuous. Make the staff/trident recharge rate increase independent of Chaos Shield and I’d be happy with the trait, I only pop Chaos Shield when someone’s really latched onto me (or in PvE because mob AI isn’t that discerning), so at that point having protection rather than toughness would definitely be more desirable, even if I lose out slightly at other times.

http://www.thebadplace.co.uk/images/personal/ergot_traits.jpg

Here’s my current build which sadly is broken (and deliberately so it seems) in the proposed redesign.

The build centres around the staff and having as many active clones as possible, each casting Winds of Chaos and causing additional damage on crit, which they do fairly often. The idea is to keep as many clones up and casting spreading boons and conditions around, as possible. If a clone is destroyed then there is a small burst of conditions to give a bit of breathing space to summon a replacement. Crucually the clones are not meant to be destroyed, they are meant to be active … the conditions they cause when destroyed is a consolation prize. Shatter is rarely used because in order to use it there needs to be the potential to summon a full set of three clones to replace those lost … the more clones are active, the more damage this build does. The other intention is for the mesmer to conceal themselves among their clones, so avoiding triggering auras which would identify them as the “real” mesmer.

Now I concede that this build may not be the strongest out there, but I do fairly well with it in both PvP and PvE. Most importantly, I enjoy the play style of this build and I am saddened that it’s going to be pretty much broken under the new system. All retribution skills have been removed deliberately (in an effort to force us to shatter our clones rather than use them) and in the new Duelling trait line all three minors are incredibly useful, the adepts and masters not at all … but I can’t slot minors into a higher slot. If this alone were changed (ie. the ability to put traits of a lower tier into higher tier slots were retained from the current system) then the build would be altered but potentially usable (albeit without the consolation prize of booby-trapped clones) as it stands, I can’t see how I could make the build work under the new system.

Bran.7425:

binidj.5734:

You are mistaken, my mesmer build uses (legitimately) 4 trait lines currently, chosen for the traits rather than the stats. Mind you, the trickster build has been erased completely from the new system so being limited to 3 trait paths is the least of my worries.

Have you looked at the relocation/merger of the traits and seen what build would play in that spirit? If you were focused on clone replacement death traits then it might be one of those bad for the player good for the game changes.

Yes I have, the build is simply not supported by the new system.

The idea is that clones are indistinguishable from the mesmer (so auras are to be avoided except when the guano hits the rotating blades) and actually put out a fair bit of damage (not nearly as much as a more bursty build but trickster is a long-term strategy) while active, so it’s in the interests of the mesmer to keep them alive and casting until summoning skills (aside from dodge which is generally used for dodging unless it’s a faceroll fight in which case builds are pretty much irrelevant) refresh sufficient to bring a full set of 3 straight back; Shatter is not something that gets used very often (except in faceroll fights). So ideally all clones should be active, so the idea is that if one is destroyed then they apply a few conditions as a sort of consolation prize. The clone-bomb can also give a bit of breathing space to summon a replacement.

Trickster is probably not “meta” but I enjoy it as a build, it works well enough, and it feels very mesmer-y … even though it doesn’t utilise shatters.

The new traits don’t support any retaliation on clones, includes shatter skills everywhere and also has traits that either apply an aura or require an aura to be active in order to function … thus utterly breaking any chance of hide-and-seek.

Zoid.2568:

No one really speccs into more than 2-3 traitlines in the current trait system. Some builds are spread out but that is mostly because of the stats. With stats removed from traits it’s no longer needed.

You are mistaken, my mesmer build uses (legitimately) 4 trait lines currently, chosen for the traits rather than the stats. Mind you, the trickster build has been erased completely from the new system so being limited to 3 trait paths is the least of my worries.

phys.7689:

trickster mesmer with on death clone effects have been removed completely. This type of mesmer often relied on tricking people into attacking the wrong clone. Picking and killing the wrong mesmer resulted in various negative effects.

Yes, my trickster build is currently dead in the water. It relied on clones spreading conditions when active, and then dealing several conditions when killed; the only time I ever currently use shatter is if I know I can get 3 clones back immediately without blowing all my dodges. There’s also Chaotic Dampening as the staff recharge trait only being effective if you have chaos shield active … thus giving away which one of you is the real mesmer … so can’t use that one then. For the duelling line I’d be very happy to sacrifice my inflict conditions on destruction traits for the three minor traits but I’m not interested in the adept or master traits. I’ve noticed a few of the skills actually seem to defy synergy … rather than being a trade-off they say “hey these two skills really complement each other … shame you can’t use them both” troll to the player. For example metaphysical rejuvenation (gain regeneration when health drops below 75%) and illusionary membrane (gain protection when you gain regeneration) look as though they should be in the same line but not at the same level (eg. one at minor, one at adept) whereas in fact they are both adept skills in the chaos line.

Frankly, if they’d let us select minors in adept, master, and grandmaster slots then quite a few of my personal issues would melt away.

Vargamonth.2047:

An utility slot still sounds like a huge investment to me. Some nourishment granting fall damage reduction for 30m / 1h could get the work done without having to touch class building options.

Merging fall damage traits with other niche ones, like downed state and/or even resurrection ones would clean some room and sounds great too.

I think that it should be a pretty huge investment but if it’s used as a signet/gadget then it’ll have an activated/toolbelt function too so the investment isn’t perhaps too high.

The issue I have with merging fall damage with other traits is that because we can no longer “dip” into trait lines we’ll end up having to go grandmaster in an otherwise useless line … now that strikes me as too much of an investment.