Guild Wars 2

Nice video, really impressive.

Have you tried this spec outside WvW? Is it viable for PvP or Dungeons?

You have three options:

1. Spam Cluster Bomb

2. Take down single targets

3. Stealth → Go to the middle of enemy zerg → Signet of Malice Passive + Caltrops + Dagger Storm → Stealth → Run the hell out → Profit

swinsk.6410:

I did TA for first time in months on my thief again last night. Doing my monthly dungeons. I ran it twice and pretty much destroyed it with S/D. I wasn’t doing the most dps, but between blind on stealth+daze I was keeping everyone in my group from getting hit. Ran short bow for other set because of the blossoms that need to be killed in that dungeon from range.

I am thinking about run a S/D build, but I don’t like to be so glassy. What gear do you use?

What do you guys think about Death Blossom spam + Caltrops build in dungeons?

You are a great player, there is no doubt about it. I can’t do that well with my thief. You have good positioning and a great timing.

Do you play other professions as well? Are you able to do that well with them?

So, no magic alternative, haha.

I will try to buy two cheap exotics and throw them at the mystic forge.

There is a giant house above the downed one.

Is it that difficult to attack there?

Some time ago I bought a full exotic set of karma gear.

I realized that it wasn’t the spec I wanted and now I have all those soulbound exotic items.

I can’t savage them because I bought them with karma.

I can use the mystic forge to get rid of 4 of them and probably get an exotic item, but what should I do with the other 2?

Just destroy them?

I don’t agree with two points you made:

1. Why pistol in a backstab build? Wouldn’t it be more useful to have Cloak and Dagger available?

2. I’ve been using a bleed build since I started playing this game and I don’t get why you use a precision amulet. Wouldn’t carrion provide more damage and more survivability?

Columba.9730:

thieves hit me far harder than warriors ever do. it’s easy to avoid warrior high dps shots. thieves should have a stealth debuff after attacking.

They have.

Seriously, create a thief, go to the mists and see for yourself if it is really that easy to kill everybody in three seconds.

Slazarian CZE.9874:

We were in party.

Downed state is annoying, but is not that bad. Rez could be a little slower, just that.

On the other hand, I do think there should be no way to rez a dead player. It would make the zerg strategy way more interesting.

I expected to see an increase in the Leeching Venom’s range.

Reviving should take longer.

Yes, it is a bit frustrating. I think it used to work like that, but they nerfed it. They could have increased its range to 1200 to make it a bit more useful.

I think they could just remove the possibility of Mug crit. 5~6k of instant damage is a way too powerful adept trait.

They shouldn’t let Mug crit.

Interesting.

I would like to suggest you to actually invest those 10 points in Trickery. As you describe the build as a supportive one, it may be useful to have Thrill of the Crime.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Pretty sure the geomancy ones share a cooldown, they may all in fact share a cooldown, I can’t remember right offhand if leeching has a cd (pretty sure it does,) but anything that has a global cooldown shares it with other sigils of similar function. So you using 2 geomancy sigils is actually putting a double cooldown on your sigil, and if you’re using a leeching one on top of that it’s not going to work at all. Thats why when mixing sigils you use 1 with global cooldown, and the other one with either a flat stat (like sigil of force > +5% dmg across the board passive effect) or a stackable (chargeble) sigil that gets charges on each kill.

Thank you. I will try Corruption instead of Leeching.

I know it has already been discussed, but I still have a few doubts:

I’m running D/D and P/ on my thief. The off-hand dagger has a Sigil of Leeching and both D/ and P/ has Sigil of Geomancy.

I expected that, when I swap weapons, I would inflict the bleeding (Geomancy) and steal some life on the first hit (Leeching), but that doesn’t happen.

Is there a way to make this work? And why doesn’t this work?

Images or didn’t happen.

Inoence.6907:

It should work but apparently doesn’t (:P) because I think the Bountiful Theft working without a target wasn’t really intended either~

Also the vigor is not that important because you use the steal outside of combat (or else there would be a target) obviously

Well, It would be useful to move faster when not in a fight. I would have lots of swiftness because of dodging and Signet of Shadows would be necessary if you have Bountiful Theft and Expeditious Dodge.

Hi there,

I noticed that you can steal without a target and still get, if traited, stealth, from Hidden Thief, and fury, might and swiftness from Thrill of the Crime, but you don’t get the vigor from Bountiful Theft.

I understand that the two boons that are ripped from the target obviously won’t be there, but shouldn’t it work with the vigor?

Could a moderator please move it to Mac section?

Could you share the build?

I’m all for a little stealth nerf, but always remember that the thief will only be “perma-stealthed” if you let him.

Without landing his Cloak and Dagger (easily avoidable), he will have to face long cooldowns to get into stealth.

You are still in a low level to judge.

Try playing it in PvP to check the class better.

Columba.9730:

Dual.8953:

Columba.9730:

I don’t get the argument that if something is properly balanced, anet must compensate. If its properly balanced, then by definition nothing is needed to compensate. It means that the prior 6 months of being imbalanced is the compensation.

The argument is that nerfing stealth will make thieves underpowered because they have the least ways to deal with taking damage in the game.

Any nerfs would make them underpowered? I don’t really agree. Add half a second on to a stealth cool down as a start. Make gradual changes from there and reevaluate. I don’t favor a sledgehammer approach.

Totally agreed. Some say stealth should be completely removed. That’s really dumb and is not going to happen, because it would break the profession. But few tweaks are still necessary.

The suggestion is that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns semi-visible (like allies see a thief while in stealth). Think about a small radius (100 – 130) around the character on where the thief appears when enters it.

My two cents about it.

The only thing I consider should have its use more encouraged are combos.

I just don’t know why there is a bleed cap in PvE.

aNTarTis.2561:

condition dmg need to be nerfed to the grown, wvw will be a lot better then. I wish they give these condition class some direct dmg skills instead….

Well, it is better to read this than being blind.

Any class running full glass canon will be bad at FotM, specially thieves.

And thieves love to run glass canon.

I don’t know if it is a Mac related problem, but the chat conversations I create are not there the next time I enter the game.

I create some custom chat panel and, in the next time I log in, it is not there anymore.

Or it should be like that?

It will never happen, but I would like to change my human to a charr.

ZLE.8293:

Care to share you build,so we can cut to the chase?
My guess is 25/30/0/0/15.What i am trying to say is that nobody,i mean nobody comes here just to share his opinion.So tell us your secret.What is bothering you?You have 0 points in Shadow Arts?You can’t benefit from C&D as much as your enemies?What is it?

I play a P/D condition/stealth based thief. I think stealth needs a little tweak, so you can give other players a chance to counter it. I shared my opinion here.

NinjaEd.3946:

I’ve only seen two possible stealth “fixes” for the whiners; Slightly longer cd between stealthing like 5 seconds instead of 3, and now this. It doesn’t nerf the stealth skill, it just requires more skill from stealth players. I think 160-180 range would be ideal so it is just before they are within attack range for melee. Would put little (but not too much) fear into my thief knowing people can seek me out without adding some OP stealth reveal. Besides, with how I see most people in groups they must not have good eye sight to begin with so I imagine they would still find it hard to “find us” by getting close, that camoflauge outline is quite hidden. But atleast the option is there for the kids who cry “nerf thief” in their sleep.

I play a thief too. I think that a nerf to stealth is almost certain, so I want it to be done the right way. I love playing a thief and I don’t want the class to be underpowered.

Rin.1046:

This is not a bad idea, though I am not sure it would change how efective stealth is (not that that is a complaint), as by the time you see them it would probably be too late. But I guess it would give you a split second to dodge, if you’re observant and have good reactions.

@brunohstein – The debuff, as far as I am aware, only effects you if you attack while in stealth. If you let stealth end without attacking you are not effected by it. So if you timed C&D you could stay invisible for most of the fight (though you would not be dealing much damage). My suggestion in other threads is to have the debuff effect you every time you lose stealth, regardless of whether you attack or not. This would prevent stealth being over spammed but still keep it’s effectiveness AND allow enemies a chance to attack the thief in between stealthing.

You are right about the debuff. And we both agree that the thief won’t kill anyone just hitting C&D every 4 seconds.

ChocoCee.7243:

Either that or just add a longer CD (a debuff or or silimar to block player going back into stealth) after a player went into stealth. It is retar- ded at the moment that ~3 people in WvW cannot kill 1 thief (which that 1 thief can almost have perma full health) because they can stealth every few seconds.

There is already a debuff of 3 seconds after a player break stealth.

Just to clarify, players would not be able to see enemies in stealth all the time, only when they come near you (100-160 radius) and they would appear as an ally in stealth.

Thanks for the good debate, mainly Maugetarr and kenshinakh.

I still think it could be done and that it would stop much of the feeling of thieves are overpowered. In addition, it would increase the challenge in playing the class. But you raised good points.

Anet has their stats and probably will know what to do.

The suggestion is that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns visible (or maybe semi-visible, like allies see a thief while in stealth). Think about a small radius (130 – 160) around the character on where the thief appears when enters it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Stealth-mechanic-suggestion

It seems nice, but I don’t know if it is as efficient as a stealth based build.

I asked you because I have already tried a DB build and didn’t have much success in PvP. Maybe because I wasn’t dodging enough and trying to rely more on Signet of Malice and DB evade.

frans.8092:

brunohstein.9038:

In the moment you hit C&D, yes, you would be partially visible. But two steps backward and you are not anymore.

And then they follow simply by stepping in the direction they were to make them visible again, and they’d still be facing the thief, making backstab impossible. And even when loosing track of the thief they would be visible again when closing in for backstab, so that even a beginner could avoid it.

I understand that you feel skill should only be required from the thief?

Or maybe then the thief dodges or changes direction and they will be lost. And the thief appears for a little fraction of time and backstab them, because they couldn’t know from where the thief was coming and the time of reaction wasn’t good enough. If they were more skilled, maybe they would have a chance.

Maugetarr.6823:

brunohstein.9038:

You would be visible all the time to your friend and that’s not the idea.

Well it is effectively the same since you have to be in melee range to use C&D, you world still be visible, and if you used shadow refuge, they would have a big target that says walk in here to see me. The only thing left that would truly hide you is blinding powder (40 sec cooldown), or comboing with a smoke field (BPS + heartseeker @ 8 initiative or the smoke wall+heartseeker). Since you would be in close combat using your thief and the idea is to see the thief when he is close to you, it is at least a decent measure off how implementing a visible stealth mechanic would affect thief gameplay.

In the moment you hit C&D, yes, you would be partially visible. But two steps backward and you are not anymore. I think it would stop with the easy mode and the thief class would be way more interesting to play.

Shadow Refuge would be seriously nerfed with this, this is true, but not a class breaker, and could be easily solved by removing the giant house of the skill animation.

Maugetarr.6823:

To those thinking it would be a good idea to make the thief slightly visible while in stealth, I would suggest talking your thief to sPvP with a friend, joining a party with them, then joining an empty server and playing 1v1 with them. They will see you the way you see yourself in stealth and you’ll learn just how useless stealth becomes… Also with a balanced build(0/20/30/20/0, mix of berzerkers armor and knights jewelry), backstab damage is nothing special and crits at just over 4k max on everthing that’s not a green up arrow.

You would be visible all the time to your friend and that’s not the idea.

frans.8092:

Columba.9730:

frans.8092:

brunohstein.9038:

First, you would still be able to backstab people, because they would only have a small fraction of time to counter it, but it would give them the possibility that doesn’t exist now.

Thief could never land a backstab because anyone who isn’t unspeakably bad would be able to turn with the thief and face them at all times.

In WvWvW, not true. Especially with culling and with tons of other enemies. It would just be a little more challenging than now.

Off course they can, if they can’t follow someone trying to run around them they shouldn’t be playing PvP, not even Wvw. But then, that level of player is exactly the type that is calling for these ridiculous nerfs.

My main and only is a thief. I don’t have any problems in saying that the current stealth is a little cheap. I just want a fair and fun game. Having to avoid enemies while in stealth would be a good addition to the class.

Shukran.4851:

brunohstein.9038:

Shukran.4851:

u want permastealth but u are autodetected if in a X range from opponent? am i right?
if yes: 160 is melee. autoreveal in a range of 160 is too small. i suggested a radius of 1200 from every opponent reveal you.
every trait in shadow arts should be reworked. fleet shadow would be op. etc etc.

if no: well i misunderstood your post.

I don’t want permastealth, no! Stealh would remain only accessible as it is now. Sorry if I explained it bad.

Oh, I see what I did. Just edited the original post to clarify things.

i really can’t see any differences before edit, but i still don’t understand your point. i mean: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
this is the list of stuff that make stealth in gw2. excluding combo that need a lot of resources to stack stealth, there is only shadow refuge that give 10-12 secs stealth at max. how do you idea work in a real battlefield? can u give some example of how your idea works?

You would still access stealth as it is now. The only thing that changes is that when you get close to your enemy, you become semi-visible.

Shukran.4851:

u want permastealth but u are autodetected if in a X range from opponent? am i right?
if yes: 160 is melee. autoreveal in a range of 160 is too small. i suggested a radius of 1200 from every opponent reveal you.
every trait in shadow arts should be reworked. fleet shadow would be op. etc etc.

if no: well i misunderstood your post.

I don’t want permastealth, no! Stealh would remain only accessible as it is now. Sorry if I explained it bad.

Oh, I see what I did. Just edited the original post to clarify things.

Shukran.4851:

it would be too op.
i think if this idea could be put in game it should have at least 1200 range. at least. and it would need a complete rework of all thief traits that works with stealth.

What would be too overpowered? I don’t get it. You say it would be overpowered, but want a range 1200, while I was thinking in something like 160.

I just posted this in Thief subforum, but it is mainly accessed by thieves (like myself). I would like the opinion of general players on this.

The suggestion is that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns visible (or maybe semi-visible, like allies see a thief while in stealth). Think about a small radius (130 – 160) around the character on where the thief appears when enters it.

You would semi-appear when you get close to the opponent, but you would be able to use any stealth skills as it is now. Dodge back and you are invisible again if the stealth time isn’t over. Also, the enemy would only partially see you, like your allies can do (https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27729/gw635.jpg). To clarify: you would still enter stealth the same way you do now (C&D, Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder…).

I think it would increase the skill needed for achieving a good result as a thief, but would not break the profession. It would be very interesting, I would like to be challenged like that in my thief.

It has also a logical argument: even if someone is invisible, you would probably feel/hear anyone moving that close to you. Fighting a thief would be less annoying and people would probably stop calling us overpowered.

I really don’t think it would break the profession. We would only have to be more cautious about positioning, adding more skill needed to master the class.

Columba.9730:

frans.8092:

brunohstein.9038:

First, you would still be able to backstab people, because they would only have a small fraction of time to counter it, but it would give them the possibility that doesn’t exist now.

Thief could never land a backstab because anyone who isn’t unspeakably bad would be able to turn with the thief and face them at all times.

In WvWvW, not true. Especially with culling and with tons of other enemies. It would just be a little more challenging than now.

I agree. It would not be a cheap kill anymore. The skill needed to land a backstab will be more consistent with the damage it does.