(edited by brunohstein.9038)
…The suggestion is that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns visible …
Thief is primarily melee and you want stealth to break when they come into melee range?
You talk like you stay in stealth while in melee combat and it is not true. While playing D/D, for example, you will enter stealth to land a backstab and not much else. After that you will have your debuff.
And I don’t think stealth should break. You would stay in stealth all the time, semi-appearing just when you get that close to the opponent. Dodge back and you are invisible again. Also, the enemy would only partially see you, like your allies can do (https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27729/gw635.jpg).
I don’t think it would break any build a thief can use.
We talking 130-160 range?
Yes.
…The suggestion is that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns visible …
Thief is primarily melee and you want stealth to break when they come into melee range?
You talk like you stay in stealth while in melee combat and it is not true. While playing D/D, for example, you will enter stealth to land a backstab and not much else. After that you will have your debuff.
And I don’t think stealth should break. You would stay in stealth all the time, semi-appearing just when you get that close to the opponent. Dodge back and you are invisible again. Also, the enemy would only partially see you, like your allies can do (https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27729/gw635.jpg).
I don’t think it would break any build a thief can use.
I just read an idea on stealth that is worth posting here. The suggestion is that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns visible (or maybe semi-visible, like allies see a thief while in stealth). Think about a small radius around the character on where the thief appears when enters it.
Unlike other ideas on nerfing stealth, I really like this one. I think it would increase the skill needed for achieving a good result as a thief, but would not break the profession. It would be very interesting, I would like to be challenged like that in my thief.
It has also a logical argument: even if someone is invisible, you would probably feel/hear anyone moving that close to you. Fighting a thief would be less annoying and people would probably stop calling us overpowered.
I really don’t think it would break the profession. We would only have to be more cautious about positioning, adding more skill needed to master the class.
So, you are suggesting that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns visible (or maybe semi-visible, like allies see a thief while in stealth)?
Unlike other ideas on nerfing stealth, I really like this one. I think it would increase the skill needed for achieving a good result as a thief, but would not break the profession. It would be very interesting, I would like to be challenged like that in my thief.
Fighting a thief would be less annoying and people would probably stop calling us overpowered.
(edited by brunohstein.9038)
A video of your gameplay would be nice.
Condition damage + Death Blossom + Caltrops + Signet of Malice do good in PvE.
Depending on what it includes I may be interested in it.
If it is just an official character planner, well, IGN’s app does that.
An application for smartphones, iPod Touch, and iPad will be made available to talk to in-game friends and guild members, view friends’ in-game locations in real-time, and allow remote access to the marketplace. The application will be free for Guild Wars 2 players.
http://www.curse.com/news/guild-wars-2/15866-pax-coverage-gw2-ipad-application
Oh, that would be great.
You can still achieve a good condition damage with the venom build and poison reduces 33% of the opponent heal.
That is a hell of a damage.
Unload, plain and simple, needs either a cheaper initiative cost, or an additional effect. How about “Returns 50% of its initiative if target is crippled, vulnerable, weakened, or blinded”? Wow, now you’ve got interesting things going on. You’ve got a solid reason to rotate in body shot. You’ve got a solid reason to use abilities other than unload. You’ve got 100% DPS uptime in group fights, and you have an unique hybrid control/damage spec that while less overall DPS than other ranged equivalents, excels at consistently debilitating the target while delivering that DPS to compensate for its lack of hard gap openers. You don’t need to worry about the base damage of vital shot, and it can keep its bleed utility in condition/stealth builds.
This is the best suggestion I read here.
I agree with you that Backstab isn’t the biggest problem. However, I presume that the precast of Cloak and Dagger is intended.
You also forgot to mention Heartseeker spam after all that combo. It usually makes 2000 – 6000 damage each time. That is a real problem too.
About nerfing Mug, I would probably change its calculation, decreasing the importance of Power in its equation. It would still be useful for some builds, but would not hit that hard for any of them, including glass canon. 1000 – 3000 are good numbers for it.
Heartseeker is the only problem.
Heartseeker is the only thing I’d consider “cheap” in this context and that’s because it quite literally is cheap.
3 Initiative for a 450 range leap, auto-targeting, leap-finisher and over 5000+ damage.
The fact that you can spam it makes it seem even cheaper.
Stealth is fine in principle, although culling is not.
Totally agreed.
So lately ive seen alot of people going thief in wvw and spvp, it wouldnt bother me if we could acctually fight them.
Ive never played thief before so i dont know their skills at all but how long does the invisibility skill/s last and why can they attack while invisible and not lose the boon?
Seriously the only thing i can do is lay down aoe and hope his keyboard breaks down while he coross one, if that doesnt work i get a bunch of hits coming out of nowhere and bang im downed.
I know im gonna be choked here by all those who take advantage of this class, but be hones this deserve a look into it.
1. Generally, the stealth skills last 3 seconds.
2. When a thief attack while in stealth, they break it and have to wait 3 seconds to restealth.
3. The main source of stealht of a thief will be Cloak and Dagger. For it to works, you have to be hit by it. It is avoidable. You also have 3 seconds to burst the thief the way you want after he came out of stealth.
Well, you have to remember as well, most people who are used to being able to 2v1 anyone are used to games where there are gear differentials in stats, or there are paper/rock/scissors mechanics that mean you will always come out on top if you even know remotely how to play your class if you are the dominant comp vs. the other.
In truly balanced PvP, and equal skill involved on all parties, you will never overcome a 2v1, not in an MMO. The downed state was introduced as a way to introduce more team oriented play. A lot of you don’t like it. A lot of us do… there’s few things in this game more gratifying than seeing a team that works together smashing a team that just wants to get individual glory.
I agree that in a truly balanced PvP, when the players are equally skilled, you wil not win a 2v1. However, there are situations when you are a better players than the other two and should be able to win it, but the downed state makes it makes it almost impossible.
A FPS is generally balanced, it only depends of the skill of the players. In a 2v1 confrontation, if the players are all equally skilled, it is likely that the lonely guy will lose, but if he is a better player than the other two, he will be able to kill them. This should occur in any balanced PvP, as well as in Guild Wars 2.
For someone who has never played GW1, how was its PvP?
Hmm.. Shadow Protector could be interesting. It would proc a 5 second regen every time you use CnD, since you count as an ally. Combined with Shadow rejuv and Assassin’s reward, you could heal for about 2200 health every time you use CnD.
Are you sure you count as an ally for Shadow Protector?
I like it.
Message Body length must at least be 15.
You will end having enough skill points to unlock all the skills.
There is some consolidated builds like the backstab, the death blossom spam and the pistol/dagger stealth.
You can use a build calculator to elaborate builds and then test it on the Mists.
I would say that guardian is, at the moment, a bit superior of everyone else.
Did he manage to kill anyone?
38k kills. Yay.
I’m okay at nerfing thief`s burst as long as they nerf every class bursts.
Thanks for the answer!
My problem now, is that i can’t find a group to do this dungeon….
Actually, i have never done a dungeon and i should do lvl 1 dungeons, but people do lvl 22 dungeons and more.
Actually, i don’t know really well what a dungeon lvl means.
You are talking about Fractals, dungeons are not like that. Dungeons are always the same and does not have any progression in difficulty.
Try to find a group for CoF in gw2lfg.com.
-Thieves have the minor trait Feline Grace which makes dodges only use 35% endurance (it still costs 50% but then 15% is returned).
-Thieves can trait to gain vigor on heal.
-Thieves can trait to gain vigor on steal.Using a d/d condition thief I’m very seldom out of ways to avoid damage with lots of dodges, death blossom, roll for initiative and withdraw (which is both an evade and grants vigor)
And how do you do in WvW or sPvP? I run a similar build and it works well in dungeons, but fails in PvP.
I totally agree with the original post. Thief is already not that great, but those nerf requests are still coming. I am already considering leveling another profession.
If I had to think in some weapon that has nothing to do with thieves, that weapon would be the staff.
Builds around DB have to be the worst thief build going (apart from deliberatly gimping yourself). I’ve seen these fellas come flipping at me in spvp a lot recently and they are simply food to a P/D thief.
Builds around DB are horrible at PvP, but are good in dungeons.
I can’t accept that someone ever complained about death blossom spam.
as long as the thief doesn’t have the revealed debuff (lasts 3 seconds) and has stealth abilites off cooldown or has enough initiative to use the stealth abilities, he can stealth.
Revealed debuff doesn’t do anything because of the culling issue. He’ll remain invisible on your screen while that’s up anyways, then he can hit you with a cloak and dagger when it runs out and he’s invisible again.
That debuff doesn’t do a single thing at the moment because of the culling. In fact, they should increase it by double to compensate for culling.
This will only happen when there is a lot of players near you.
The fact is that dieing for someone who was in stealth is frustrating.
Guardian is way more powerful than thief, but there is no complain about it.
The only serious nerfs to thieves have been the pistol whip (which I think should be reverted in PVE) and heart seeker. If you are running a backstab thief while leveling you are going to have a bad time. If you want to wreck mobs run d/d and spam death blossom with caltrops and signet of malice. <—- so easy to level this way.
Dancing dagger also got seriously nerfed.
Condition damage builds based on Death Blossom spam can survive meleeing.
This post is about PvP or PvE?
I really can’t see how a Death Blossom spam is a threat to anyone in PvP.
I think that Signet of Malice is not that great in PvP fights.
Hide in Shadows seems to be a better option.
I don’t see why people think thieves is overpowered.
Guardians and warriors are way more powerful.
This is our tank build
(COPY AND PASTE LINK TO MAKE IT WORK)
caltrops, signet of malace, death blossom, roll for inititive and steal for more inititive
much much ini regen
regain ini
steal ini
spend ini
heal in spending ini (death blossom+assassins reward+signet of malice)
dodge on spending ini (death blossom)
heal on doing damage (caltrops+death blossom+assassins reward+signet of malice)
heal to get ini (activate signet of malice)massive hp
go all night long
some caltrops, kiting, dodging in the middle will mean you can do this pretty much forever, just not spamming it (you have to be clever with it)
you could say to be the ultimate survivor use stealth, but that isnt really a tanky build
dodging/kiting/evading is the only way to tank damage without loosing agro via stealth
daggerstorm + signet of malice is a great way to heal on a bunch of mobs and gives 8 seconds of not using inititive giving it time to fully regen
ive listed sigil, armour, runes (pay close attention to the runes) and weapons in the build editor
This is very similar to what I’m playing and it works great against several mobs, but I can’t kill anything in WvW.
How is your performance in PvP situations with this build?
I could say that critical damage has a better DPS against one mob and condition damage is more powerful against lots of them.
Seriously, I can’t kill anyone with a condition damage build in WvW.
My enemies keep removing conditions so easily I run out of initiative before their HP reach 75%.
I run a condition build on my thief in PvP, WvW and PvE, and it works a charm in all areas. But at the end of the day you need to find the style of play that suits you best.
People will say one style is better than another, but that is only because that style suits them best. I have had no problems using my condition build against players, regardless of their profession. The only times I have struggled is when fighting a player with equal or greater skill than myself.
Go with what you find most fun and easiest to play.
Could you please share your build?
I ask that because the condition damage build I’m running (http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAoYVlcmKPHcy5E+5ExmCfKUvHfFthtTxV1KA) hardly kills anyone in PvP, but I think it is very good against mobs.
I don’t like the classic stealthy backstab play and I love PvP, but the way I’m playing now doesn’t seem good in WvW duels.
I tested a condition damage based build and it is really good in PvE and dungeons. You have a good area damage and can survive to lot of mobs.
But it is not really good in PvP as all the classes can easily remove your conditions.
I would only increase the destealth time to something like 4 or 5 seconds.
Do you think condition damage based thieves are a viable option for player versus players confrontations?
In my opinion, this build needs a buff in this situations. It is highly dependent of bleeding, but any class can easily remove those 25 stacks of bleeding that have cost all of your initiative.
D/D in this build, for example, is generally about spamming Death Blossom, but the melee damage of it is barely noticeable.
I have tried to run one condition damage based build and had great success on killing mobs, but it feels like it is completely useless in any player versus player battle.
This is probably the closest you can get to a support build with a thief.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAV6alUmaPHfS0E/JFB3Dmm0n6pgsjVXQ/BsC
I would increase the debuff of stealth to 5s to preclude permanent stealth.
Also, the condition damage thief needs to be better when fighting a player. Every class can easily remove the 25 stacks of bleeding that have consumed all your initiative to be stacked. And, after that, you are dead.
(edited by brunohstein.9038)
Instant killers with the best mobility and stealth?
And with low HP, low armor and not a single defense boon.
I think Anet has planned for thief a burst that can burst people down. I think the concept of thief is “instant killers”.
If I would try to balance this build, I would probably just increase the wait-for-restealth time.
Now it is about 3 seconds, increase it to 5 and the thief will be vulnerable during enough time.
You will be using the following sequence:
Basilisk Venom (to immobilize the enemy on next hit) – Steal (to shadowstep at the target and deal damage) – Cloak and Dagger (to stealth and deal damage) – Backstab (to deal damage).
You will go for Power/Precision stats. One major trait will be Mug.
And that’s it.
The problem with Signet of Malice is that when you run out of initiative, you are in great danger.
Hide in Shadows, otherwise, heals more and let you run out of battle for a while.