Guild Wars 2

PainShot.7154:

The problem its not only the knockback, its also that you need to collect 150!

It’s a piece of cake, actually. I did mine in blocks of 10 scopes per day on different maps. And that was during the time when these things really knocked you around WITH the tough mobs! It was nice going back to some of the maps I haven’t been to in a while.

PainShot.7154:

You need like 5 hours and 2g just to do a borring (now not kitten) run arround maps to destroy an antena… 150 times

I not getting how destroying the sonic periscopes costs gold. Of course, if you get killed by the mobs, then you have repair costs, but 2g?

After reading the brief description, I am hoping Retribution will include a new Shiverpeaks map…

Distaste.4801:

The problem with berserker is stat synergy that is not available through any other stats. I mean Power x Crit % x Crit damage x % damage increases provides for some insane damage scaling and it should not be there unless the defensive stats scale equally. There needs to be defensive stat multipliers as well. Healing power should be a viable stat, but since ArenaNet is so hellbent on not having healers it’s pretty much a wasted stat since 9/10 it scales absolutely horribly.

Very well stated… Damage mitigation with respect to armor and healing does not scale in a linear fashion, but yet damage scales in a multiplicative fashion (and does it ever!). Throw in high crit chance and high +% crit damage, and you have yourself a real problem with combat balance. As you alluded to, the damage formula prevents having pure tanks and healers. But, we are left with an end game centered around one parameter: DPS (in PvE especially).

I really respect and applaud the developers for having the courage to depart from the trinity as I do believe the system is dated and needs to go. Nonetheless, I think there are better ways to approach the problem mathematically. Right now, there exists virtually no practical difference in damage mitigation between armor values of 2700 and 3200 (see some of my previous posts on this topic for the analysis). That’s a whopping difference of 500 in toughness, but yet affording only about a 10% difference in damage mitigation. This is due to the non-linear nature of the damage formula. It is a very clever design if you want to limit the effectiveness of armor without a hard cap. But, just like there are stat multipliers for damage, there needs to be stat multipliers for damage mitigation as well. For instance, we can keep the original damage formula, but attach a coefficient to the denominator [1.xx] to boost the effectiveness of armor and counteract the insanely high damage output from the one-shot wonders. With a very simple fix such as this, maybe our end-game characters can finally start to “feel” epic, instead of succumbing to common dungeon trash, which often hits harder than the boss himself.

But that’s another discussion…

Rash.6514:

Maybe you don’t get the weight of the word “legendary”.

I get it, but I do not think the developers get it. There is nothing “legendary” about the process of crafting a legendary weapon in GW2. It boils down to mats and gold. That makes us merchants and TP warriors, and there’s nothing epic about it.

This game started loosing me when I began seeing pink warriors in quaggan backpacks and 8-bit “adventure boxes”…

About $300 (US) since launch day. I have 5 toons at level 80 and I like to keep them in top notch gear. I’ve changed their end-game builds a couple of times, which is not cheap. Even with 1400+ game hours (virtually all PvE), there’s simply no way to farm enough gold or grind enough dungeon tokens to play this game the way I would like to play it. I enjoy theory crafting with the professions and this is definitely not a game that supports this in an affordable way.

At this time, I have ceased all gem purchases until I see what the April update brings. So far, I have not seen an “expansion’s worth of content” from the last three updates. With almost 9 months into the game, I would like to see one new end-game map, or at least a full embellishment of Southsun to make it a worthy destination.

pzykotic.4061:

Thanks for the help guys. I tried a Necro for a little bit. Wasn’t really enthusiastic about it. It seems ….I dunno.

Certain professions in this game take time to really blossom and necromancer is definitely one of them. It took me well beyond level 80 to figure out the best necro build for my playstyle. Despite the necromancer being the master of conditions manipulation, I have evolved a rather potent and fun death shroud/crit build for PvE that eschews applying conditions almost entirely.

My very first GW2 profession was the engineer, which I am sorry to say, I regret. I loved the idea of a firearms-wielding, grenade-tossing dude bristling with gadgets, but the reality is quite different and rather underwhelming.

Honestly, I wish I had started out as a guardian. It is a very well-balanced and inspiring profession. It is truly the only profession that comes close to “doing it all” quite well. Of course, guardian really excels in a support role (staff/shouts/virtues) with a mountain of sustain, but you can get very respectable DPS if you trait for it.

Guardian would be my recommendation for a “first”.

Some may recommend warrior as a “first”, but the profession is a dual-edged sword (pun intended). The mechanics are easy, lots of fun to play, and the red 10k+ crit numbers flashing on the screen are a hoot. But the warrior has probably the lowest sustain of all the professions and it takes time to really figure out the right build for your playstyle.

TheGuy.3568:

I went from 2900 and change to 2701 I really haven’t noticed much of a difference.

Exactly… For general PvE, the reduction in armor from 2900 to 2700 will not be noticeable. An intuitive player may feel a difference in Wv3, but that depends on your spec.

Regarding the subject of this thread, the necromancer is neither dead nor boring as the profession has some amazing potential [emphasis added] for build diversity. Nonetheless, I can identify with some of the points the OP mentioned. The profession has some way to go for it to be in the same league as the guardian in terms of balance and utility.

LameFox.6349:

Life transfer especially feels very meek to me. I didn’t play GW1 so I’m not familiar with what it was there, but seeing the traits and handful of skills necro has made me think I’d be able to actually build around that…

I feel the same. For a long while, I was running an end-game build with 30 points in Blood Magic that focused on lifestealing. Paired with the now defunct lifesteal food, this build was a lot of fun and quite viable and certainly not OP as proponents of the nerf would suggest. As they stand now, the lifesteal traits on their own are rather underwhelming and not worth the investment. That’s really a shame because the original conception of my necromancer was actually a vampire!

I’ve been playing around with a 10/30/0/0/30 berzerker build with Knight’s jewelery for some toughness, each fitted with a berzerker jewel. My health is about 3k less than before, but if I get the hang of working DS in a more judicious manner, I might be able to offset the reduced health pool. My goal is to cause as much instantaneous damage as I can with this build, so I have essentially ignored condition based weapons like the scepter and (unfortunately) the staff. I’m still testing the build, so we’ll see…

Irena.1062:

Vitality>Armor Defense, and what’s more the more armor defense you have the more you get targeted over others as well.

Good post! Pulling all the aggro is a downside to being the most tanky individual in a dungeon party! I used to run HotW a lot with my P/V/T warrior, and man did that Legendary Svánigandr chase me all over the room! It was a good strategy for keeping the rest of the party at range, but very tiring and risky for the person doing all the kiting!

boondocksaint.6529:

Just wanted to drop in and say thanks for the Armor analysis. I am running Knights Armor, mostly for WvW and some PvE. One thing to note is that in WvW most of the time I am running with a Superior Sharping Stone and are 3k armor. Before I change some of my armor pieces does the extra power I get make up for the damage lost?

Thanks!

Knight’s is great for Wv3: copious protection with some punch from power and precision. I think an armor of 3000 is highly desirable for Wv3, especially since you’re getting all of your toughness from the Knight’s gear. You have lots of trait points to devote to, say, mobility or other areas essential for Wv3.

For PvE, 2700 is as high as I would go. But again, that really depends on your playstyle.

Xyvius.1679:

…should be boosted up to 900. At least with the Axe Training trait.

I agree strongly with this. Necros lack an effective ranged attack for DPS builds. You could increase the range of axe skills, or perhaps we need to rethink the necro axe entirely. Maybe the one-handed necro axe should be deleted in favor of a two-handed battleaxe with ranged abilities for direct damage builds.

That is a trade I would heartily welcome…

Jonwar.9205

or you could look at it as taking ~10% less damage per hit by adding 300 toughness.

True. You are taking ~10% less damage when you go from armor of 2700 to 3000. But look at the prodigious investment in toughness (300!) you paid to reduce damage by 10%. On the other hand, take someone with an armor of only 1000 and they invest 300 points into toughness. They are reducing their damage by a further ~23%, which is more than a double the return on their investment with the same amount of capital.

So it really comes down to a question of how high of a price are you willing to pay for damage reduction, because it gets rather expensive the higher you go. If damage reduction was the ONLY goal of this game, then no price would be too high. Of course, we all know that is not the case. This game requires us to make a myriad of decisions that are not always quantitative in nature. We take into account the qualitative aspects as well, like the inherent strengths/weaknesses of a particular profession in addition to our own personal playstyle.

Let us not forget about player age, too! Younger players with cat-like reflexes can dodge one-shot hits from dungeon bosses all day. For them, glass cannon builds with low armor values are very desirable. However, someone who is not so quick may REALLY need that extra 10% damage reduction and are more than willing to pay the price!

Jonwar.9205

Semantics, is it still semantics with numbers?.

I see your point. We are playing GW2 for enjoyment and as a pleasant diversion from the oftentimes onerous nature of “real life”. But some of us math nerds (like me) do enjoy the analytical side, too.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

So Carabidus – is there a confirmed sweet spot? Do we know what the best proportional min/max is out there?

This is an intriguing question. Again, the assumptions are: a skill coefficient of 1, 2k power and 1k weapon damage, 18387 base health.

The function that generated my second graph is:

[damage formula]/[health] with armor as the independent variable.

For this example, the point of diminishing returns falls at around 6% health taken per hit and an armor value of 1800. I arrived at these values by taking the average value of the function [damage/health] with respect to x (armor). where x = [920, 3000]. I had to pull out my old calculus text to remember the integral formula for that one!

However, this does not imply that investing in toughness beyond 1800 is not worthwhile. It becomes a judgement call based on the question “at what point does diminishing returns exact too high a cost when adding toughness?”. To me, the “sweet spot” is an armor of 2700. Using the aforementioned assumptions (skill coefficient of 1, 2k power and 1k weapon damage, 18387 base health):

% of health taken per hit with an armor value of 2700 = ~4.0%
% of health taken per hit with an armor value of 3000 = ~3.6%

So, it takes a significant investment of 300 toughness to gain only 0.4% reduction. In my opinion, 2700 is where I would stop. This value seems to be the “brick wall”, so to speak.

It would be interesting to see some additional analyses using other hypothetical assumptions for the damage formula. I predict the results would be very similar.

Jonwar.9205:

I don’t need a picture, I understand what you’re trying to get across, and this is all pretty simple math. Yes, the amount of health you save per armor point is less as you go up. This doesn’t really pertain to survivability though, the bottom line is you are increasing you life span by a fairly linear amount by adding more armor. The problem is you’re only taking the first part of the equation into consideration.

Please mathematically define “survivability” and the term “life span”? I and several others in this thread have spoken in terms of quantifiable parameters (damage, health, etc.). I am unaware of any GW2 formulae for “survivability” or “life span”.

The essence of my thesis is this: once the value for armor gets above a certain point, the investment in toughness becomes too great for it to be worthwhile insofar as damage reduction. I believe I have clearly shown this by example.

Jonwar.9205:

The difference between 2700 and the max armor (which is not 4000 btw) is something like 20% I believe. At least that’s what I remember from punching stuff into buildcraft some time ago.

If you would like to make a long story short unless the wiki’s wrong, damage is:
power * weapon damage * skill coefficient / armor

Lets break this kitten down barney style, just for fun.

Lets just assume for a second we’re using a skill coefficient of one, 2k power and 1k weapon damage as it just makes this easier to follow (and prevents me from having to break out the calculator)

2,000 * 1,000 / 2400 = ~833
2,000 * 1,000 / 2,700 = ~741
2,000 * 1,000 / 3,000 = ~667
2,000 * 1,000 / 3,300 = ~606
2,000 * 1,000 / 4,000 = 500 (Last time I checked 4k armor isn’t even possible)

A warriors base HP is 18,387 (I’m just looking on buildcraft now). So we go HP/Damage to find out how many hits we can take and…

2.1k: 20
2.4k: 23
2.7k: 25
3k: 28
3.3k: 31
4k: 37

Unless I’m mistaken about the damage formula, it seems like the returns aren’t so diminishing. Didn’t intend to do all this, but well, procrastination has a funny way of making me do stuff…

Let’s investigate your example further. Assumptions: a skill coefficient of 1, 2k power and 1k weapon damage, 18387 base health.

Please see the attached graph.

x-axis: armor
y-axis: proportion of health taken as a result of the hit

You are correct in that the number of hits you can sustain increases in a linear fashion as you increase armor. But, there exists diminishing returns when you consider the proportion of health taken per hit (not a linear relationship). A small investment in toughness when your armor is low is profitable. However, even a very large investment in toughness to go from an armor of 2700 to 3000 shows negligible improvement.

Damage mitigation with respect to the armor value is not linear. Please refer to the wiki entry “damage”, specifically the formula.

It makes sense to invest in toughness when your armor value is low to medium. However, adding toughness when your armor value is already greater than 2700 makes very little difference in mitigating damage. Therefore, trait points are better spent elsewhere if your armor>2700.

I purchased my computer specifically for online gaming (Guild Wars 2 in particular). The game client has been running beautifully since the day the new computer arrived (September). However, I have had several BSODs this month and they are happening with greater frequency. The BSODs do not occur under “normal” operation, but only during GW2.

CPU: Intel i7-3770K 3.50 GHz Quad Core
Memory: 4 × 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR3-1600 Low Voltage
SSD: Intel 520 480GB SATA 8Gb/s
Video: nVidia Geforce GTX 690

My video drivers are current and so are Windows updates. Please advise. The details of the most recent BSOD are below. Thank you.

- System
- Provider
[ Name] Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power
[ Guid] {331C3B3A-2005-44C2-AC5E-77220C37D6B4}
EventID 41
Version 2
Level 1
Task 63
Opcode 0
Keywords 0×8000000000000002
- TimeCreated
[ SystemTime] 2013-03-31T22:39:49.819609300Z
EventRecordID 56423
Correlation
- Execution
[ ProcessID] 4
[ ThreadID] 8
Channel System
Computer Puget-102953
- Security
[ UserID] S-1-5-18
- EventData
BugcheckCode 30
BugcheckParameter1 0×0
BugcheckParameter2 0×0
BugcheckParameter3 0×0
BugcheckParameter4 0×0
SleepInProgress false
PowerButtonTimestamp 0

The LFG website is clunky and inefficient. Too many times I have responded to fresh posts within seconds of their posting only to get the reply “sorry, we’re full”. I actually gave up using it for that reason. I’ve had better luck in map chat.

The game needs an LFG tool. Period. It’s silly to argue about this. The fact that GW2 needs an external source for grouping is unbecoming of an MMO with the distinction of “best of 2012”.

I have the “doubled” look to my Vision of the Mists greatsword.

UPDATE (3/26/2013): The recent patch fixed the problem! Thank you very much!

Ruprect.7260:

I hope this month they add a Kill 1500 invaders.

Haa! Well, a Wv3 achievement is OK by me as long as the monthly will be similar to the daily where we have choices.

In anticipation of the April monthly achievements, I just wanted to extend a hearty THANK YOU to the developers for not requiring a Wv3 achievement for the last couple of months. It has been blissful. I’m hoping for the same in April!

The problem with these events have nothing to do with guesting or timers. The root problem has everything to do with the paucity of rares and exotics from open world drops. Farming a chain of these events can take as little as a couple of hours where you can potentially bag multiple rares/exotics from each event. Open world farming and even dungeons cannot offer loot rewards of this magnitude for equal time spent. I see this as a serious game imbalance that needs addressing ASAP.

How about a liquid black outfit like the one Kate Beckinsale wears in the Underworld series… Quite lovely, indeed…

Very good news regarding the banner buffs. It’s about time those things are given some real utility.

Kuldebar.1897:

What happened to the days where groups actually cleared dungeons as they progressied through them?

So, does anyone understand where I am coming from concerning dungeons?

I do, brother… Players are deprived of the joys of a REAL dungeon crawl in a lot of these games. The days of exploring every room, secret door, hatch and wall panel thorough a labyrinthine environment with unexpected dangers around the corner are virtually gone…

Good times…

Maestro.5376:

I’m not sure the old AC Ex was even “moderately challenging” for new players. Considering the Spider Queen’s AoEs did basically no damage, and her only threat was from melee, you could skip Kohler, run through the Scepter Picking, use the same tactics that are used now on the burrows, just circle strafe the Howling King, and completely ignore everything the Ghost Eater did, the only threats in AC Ex pre-patch were Kohler’s pulls and the large-cone howl of the Colossus Rumblus. I guess it depends on your definition, though.

Absolutely agree. The mechanics in the former AC were not very interesting or instructive. On the one hand, I am very glad to see the devs are actively engaged in reworking content and at least trying to make the game a more interesting place to be. Their attention to detail is what keeps me in the game. But in doing so, I believe they should constrain the difficulty to a level appropriate with the level of the dungeon. Otherwise, they need to consider removing the leveling system and make all dungeons end-game content.

Maybe there really was a problem with uber-experienced players with exotics blasting through the old AC in 10 minutes. But then, how do we handle the rewards for such “easy” dungeons?

When the devs said that all dungeons are going to need a second look, they were not kidding…

AlietteFaye.7316:

Not only that, but AC was not a “training ground for explorable dungeons” before, either.

There doesn’t have to be a billboard posted above the dungeon entrance that reads “training dungeon”. The former AC was presumed to be a training dungeon because it is the first explorable that is available to a new player.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Every dungeon is completely different from one another, and they all have different encounters and tactics.

True

AlietteFaye.7316:

None of them are a progression from one to the next, and the new AC doesn’t change that.

Then why bother organizing dungeons into a hierarchical leveling system: 35, 45, 55, 65, 75, 80? I’ll say this again: if this is really what the community wants, then let’s cut the BS and make every dungeon like fractals where you need to be 80 to enter.

AlietteFaye.7316:

I understand that players want there to be a difficulty progression between the dungeons. But that’s never been there, as evidenced by CoF P1 being the absolute most farmed dungeon path, and SE never getting love.

…and this underscores the problem…

I must say, this community has really changed a lot since launch. I never thought I would see so many people so vehemently against keeping at least ONE dungeon moderately challenging for brand new players. Now EVERYTHING has to be “leet or gtfo”. Very disappointing…

carabidus.6214:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Not only that, but AC was not a “training ground for explorable dungeons” before, either.

There doesn’t have to be a billboard posted above the dungeon entrance that reads “training dungeon”. The former AC was presumed to be a training dungeon because it is the first explorable that is available to a new player.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Every dungeon is completely different from one another, and they all have different encounters and tactics.

True

AlietteFaye.7316:

None of them are a progression from one to the next, and the new AC doesn’t change that.

Then why bother organizing dungeons into a hierarchical leveling system: 35, 45, 55, 65, 75, 80? I’ll say this again: if this is really what the community wants, then let’s cut the BS and make every dungeon like fractals where you need to be 80 to enter.

AlietteFaye.7316:

I understand that players want there to be a difficulty progression between the dungeons. But that’s never been there, as evidenced by CoF P1 being the absolute most farmed dungeon path, and SE never getting love.

…and this underscores the problem…

I must say, this community has really changed a lot since launch. I never thought I would see so many people so vehemently against keeping at least ONE dungeon moderately challenging for brand new players. Now EVERYTHING has to be “leet or gtfo”. Very disappointing…

AlietteFaye.7316:

Not only that, but AC was not a “training ground for explorable dungeons” before, either.

There doesn’t have to be a billboard posted above the dungeon entrance that reads “training dungeon”. The former AC was presumed to be a training dungeon because it is the first explorable that is available to a new player.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Every dungeon is completely different from one another, and they all have different encounters and tactics.

True

AlietteFaye.7316:

None of them are a progression from one to the next, and the new AC doesn’t change that.

Then why bother giving any dungeon a label? I’ll say this again: if this is really what the community wants, then let’s cut the BS and make every dungeon like fractals where you need to be 80 to enter.

AlietteFaye.7316:

I understand that players want there to be a difficulty progression between the dungeons. But that’s never been there, as evidenced by CoF P1 being the absolute most farmed dungeon path, and SE never getting love.

…and this underscores the problem…

I must say, this community has really changed a lot since launch. I never thought I would see so many people so vehemently against keeping at least ONE dungeon moderately challenging for brand new players. Now EVERYTHING has to be “leet or gtfo”. Very disappointing…

Mourningcry.9428:

carabidus.6214:

What exists now is a patchwork of dungeon paths that have virtually no linear progression in complexity. How can we when AC, a level 35 dungeon, is now widely considered one the hardest?

Considered by whom? Under what conditions?

Please don’t presume to speak for all of “us”, especially when making such broad generalizations. (Especially in a thread that was centered around debunking such nonsense).

If it is nonsense, then why is the dungeon subforum festooned with posts about AC being too difficult for a party of new players? I never presumed to speak for anyone. I speak for myself. The fact that the community is starkly and passionately divided on this issue is self evident and cannot be simply dismissed.

Kanako Davis.5364:

Furthermore explorable dungeons are “end game” content.

Not all of them (ostensibly). We have 5 out of 9 dungeons that are sub-80. If this is really the direction that the game is going, then the developers need to remove dynamic leveling from all dungeons and make them all suitable for level 80 like HotW, CoE, arah and fractals. You will never convince me and countless others that AC is “end game content”, not while it has a level 35 label.

Kanako Davis.5364:

My PUG teammates never told me that they need help or that it is their first time. I had to do the first step. It is always me who is asking them if they need help and usually they’re grateful for it but with a player base we have right now people are afraid to ask for help.

Is that their fault? Yes and no. I have always been honest about my level of familiarity with a dungeon when I join a party, whether it be guild or PUG, but that’s me. However, I can understand the other side of this coin. Many PUGs are too intimidated to admit that they are green, which is a direct outgrowth where this game is heading: hardcore “endgame” content with a player base to match.

Kanako Davis.5364:

I think thats the part where some change needs to happen. Not the dungeon system. As for me dungeons could get a little more difficult.

The difficulty of these dungeons have been disproportional to their level since launch. Now that AC has been reworked, dungeon level is completely superfluous. For instance, CoF path 1 is a cake walk for even a marginally decent level 75 player. This is the level of difficulty that should currently exist in AC, a level 35 dungeon.

So yes, certain paths definitely need a boost in complexity (a different beast than “difficulty”), but make such complexity proportionate to the level of the dungeon. What exists now is a patchwork of dungeon paths that have virtually no linear progression in complexity. How can we when AC, a level 35 dungeon, is now widely considered one the hardest?

Wethospu.6437:

Training dungeon with one of the best rewards just doesn’t fit. It’s good to keep in mind that other choice would have been lowering the rewards (which would have also caused an uproar).

Indeed… So what to do? Well, perhaps for starters, keep the token amounts the same across all dungeons (fractals being a separate case), but adjust the probability of rare/exotic/precursor and gold drops according to a dungeon’s explorable level.

tnarrant.9714:

I’ve pretty much given up on it. Too annoying for the payoff now. The whole game is moving that direction with each successive update, so I’m filling more of my time with other games, games that understand that fun should trump frustration. I seek out games to entertain myself, not to add more stress to my life.

This just about sums it up for me as well. AC is no longer a training ground, as the first dungeon really should be. I am concerned about the increasing “l2p” and “noob gtfo” attitude from the community as well. I have been playing since the Head Start, and the game is definitely fomenting and attracting an ever-increasing player base of hardcore elitists.

Regarding AC specifically, there was nothing wrong with the “old AC” for the role it was designed to fulfill: as a training dungeon. Not only is the revamped AC an unforgivably harsh environment for new players, AC suffers from a malady that is becoming more prevalent with each patch and it’s called “knockdown fever”. This is an overused, redundant and lackluster mechanic that, in most cases, is not telegraphed and it needs toning down. For instance, the incessant pulls in Orr were removed from mobs because it was far too much, and the dev team made Orr a much more explorable zone without nerfing the mob’s fighting abilities.

Of the game’s nine explorable dungeons, nearly half are considered elite, level 80 explorable dungeons: HotW, CoE, arah and fractals. Turning a training dungeon into a harcore zone to please a highly vociferous elite minority is a large mistake that will drive frustrated players straight into the next big MMO that hits the shelves.

This is just the opinion of one player, but if I had a company executive in front of me right now, I would heartily encourage this person to NOT continue down this path of elitist expansionism. You will never fully please the hardcore player base… Ever… There are perfectly challenging places within the game for all kinds of tastes. We did not need a training dungeon converted into a “noob gtfo” zone.

Trust me, your competition is taking very careful notes of all your successes AND mistakes. Don’t let them win. Give us the game you promised us from the start; a game that was promoted under the premise of “if you hate traditional MMOs, then you’ll want to check out GW2”. That’s a BIG statement, and engenders more than you may realize.

Omer.5096:

You have guaranteed rares from several world events.

100% fiction. Rares are not guaranteed at these events. We all know that.

Omer.5096:

Each rare is worth between 25 and 35 silver and through salvaging, you can easily match or exceed this profit through ectos.

Ectos are not guaranteed from salvaging. In fact, many salvages yield NO ECTOS, especially rares.

Omer.5096:

With laurels, you have a guaranteed income of at least 2 gold/5 laurels from the 10 dye pack as well as having access to coin/karma/exp boosters, which were previously only available through the gem shop or BLC.

Are you actually suggesting that those random dye packs contain dyes worth up to 2g? Laughable…

Omer.5096:

Open world drops have never been better (which is not saying much granted) however, just by getting my daily gatherer achievement in Orr, I can pick up between 7 and 12 Heavy Moldy Bags, which is ~30 silver (~3s/ea on TP post) profit right there. That doesn’t include the T5 and T6 mats that drop along with the random porous bones + whites/blues/greens.

Oh, I know! I don’t know what we would do without all the vendor trash that make up the largest proportion of the drops in Orr by a very wide margin.

Omer.5096:

Finally, the biggest money maker in the game, CoF P1, hasn’t been touched

Well, that’s just grand. So we grind ONE dungeon for decent drops while ArenaNet has spent countless resources creating a huge and persistent world. Let’s just call the game “Citadel of Flame”, then.

Omer.5096:

Money has never been easier to come by. The fact is that most high level stuff, outside of precursors, have been dropping in price. Lodestones have come down 10-15%, T6 mats have come down around 10%, pearl exotics have never been cheaper, ecto is down 15-20%, many sigils/runes are down 10-20%, etc etc.

These items needed to come down anyway as they were astronomically priced and getting worse. These prices are now approaching “healthy” levels, not “discounted” levels, as you are intimating.

The “reasons” you cite above are not only half-truths, but have absolutely nothing to do with AC, which is the subject of this thread.

It is common knowledge that AC was the easiest dungeon in the game, and therefore, the most expedient way to obtain a full set of exotic gear WITHOUT GOING TO THE TP, and that’s was the “problem” from a corporate standpoint. If I had a dollar for every player I have seen with AC gear, I would be developing my own game company by now. AC was a leak that needed plugging and the simplest way to accomplish this was to festoon the AC experience with artificial difficulty and discourage and/or slow down the flow of tokens from that particular dungeon. It makes perfect sense from their end, but from a player’s standpoint, we are now left with an ostensible “level 35” dungeon that is clearly no longer a “beginner” dungeon.

Here is the rationale for “fixing what is not broke” from a corporate standpoint:

1) Gem sales are down, so some mechanism is needed to increase revenue without it being overly obvious to the player base

2) In-game metrics show that AC was a very popular path for equipping exotics – maybe a little too popular (lower level toons saving tokens for their graduation to level 80, thus bypassing the TP)

3) Increase dungeon difficulty of AC to the extent that 5 level 35 toons in greens will probably rage quit

4) Frustrated lower level players (and even fully kitted 80s in exotics looking to outfit themselves in dungeon armor for pride and prestige)

5) Open wallet —-> buy gems —-> convert to gold —-> purchase exotics on the TP or the materials to craft them yourself.

6) Conclusion: more money for the corporation

I’m not even going to elaborate on the severe lag issues (new) and bugs (new and old) that continue to plague this dungeon and have yet to be acknowledged.

Very nice to see some appreciation for necro D/D. Having a condition cleanse and AoE weakness on the offhand weapon is exceedingly useful and allows for more skill bar diversification.

Bleak Advent.9840:

If anything you should blame yourself for not building to be effective without food. Consumables are icing on the cake, not the cake.

I would like to weigh in on the heavy-handed crit food nerf and address this statement directly. First of all, it is no one’s business HOW I build my character. My methodology is no better than yours and vice versa. In a game that promotes itself as “play the game your way”, I am seeing an increasingly dictatorial approach to these senseless nerfs without any accompanying corrective action to re-balance glaring deficits in game mechanics. I am speaking specifically about toughness/armor.

The over-reliance on pies/ghosts is a direct outgrowth of the poor job that toughness does in mitigating damage, especially in challenging end-game content where the trash mobs can hit you harder than the boss itself.

Because toughness does not not mitigate damage in a linear fashion, not only is it futile to invest in an armor value above 2800, but a single mistake in melee can render you one-shotted and kissing dirt. I know some extremely capable, non-glass warriors that used pies/ghosts as an equalizer, not as a crutch, because… shock and surprise… they like to melee.

So what we had pre-nerf is a melee profession trying to exist in an already melee- unfriendly game environment due to poorly-conceived damage mitigation formulae. Ergo, the over-reliance on lifesteal food as a method of offsetting such deficits.

This nerf is a VERY big deal with far reaching consequences, more than the naysayers realize, and not to just warriors. What of the melee builds in the scholar professions? My melee necromancer was quite viable thanks to lifesteal food, and definitely not OP in any sense. In fact, he is squishy as hell. I could not simply face tank and the pies would “magically” refill my health pool upon crit. It was still VERY dangerous for a lightly armored toon to melee even with crit food. Now, I will most likely shelve my necro indefinitely because I refuse to change to a range-only build. Why? Because to me, range only builds are not fun. So much for “play the game your way”…

I cannot express how fortunate I am that I rolled a guardian recently. I believe it is the most inspired and intelligently developed profession in the game. And guess what? I do not use lifesteal food with him because he does not need it as the guardian is a well-conceived and balanced profession.

Note: edited for grammar and clarity.

40 laurels PLUS 50 ectos?

Sorry guys, but this is outrageous. There’s no way I’m forking over 50 ectos in addition to a month’s worth laurels for ONE accessory.

I suppose “going full zerker” depends on the profession and the situation. For my warrior, I have two rather “conventional” builds and sets of gear: full soldier and full berserker. The soldier build is ridiculously durable and great for pulling aggro towards me and away from the rest of the party. But for pure damage, a full berzerker warrior with some toughness and the right weapons is hard to beat. Yes, I have to be a lot more careful with my warrior when he has the berzerker build as I have less overall armor and vitality than with a soldier build. But both are a blast to play and I change builds depending on the mission or my mood.

Now, my guardian is a different story. For me, a knight’s build seems to offer the most balance in terms of support, durability and damage.

My necromancer has yet an entirely different build (rampager’s).

So I guess what I am trying to say is that “full zerker” as an endgame build is not always “fun” or even optimal in every situation.

EvilSardine.9635:

Why do thieves get nice ascended berserker’s gear to do their ridiculous damage but everyone else who wants to survive these hits gets shafted?

^THIS^

I’m really reaching a breaking point with this game. My guardian (main) is all knight’s, which is not unusual for the profession. It is a highly conventional set of stats that favors support and survivability. Knight’s is so conventional that it is craftable. I did not roll a guardian to become some berzerker/support hybrid! Soldier’s stats will not cut it for my build, either.

Same here. My guild group had to bail on path 2 about a half hour ago. Detha would not initiate.

DanH.5879:

the dungeon bosses should no longer regen full hp because of a wipe !

^ THIS!!!

Leo G.4501:

All in all, I feel you but feel you’re not looking at the big picture. The game should be rewarding you (the players) with challenges that you legitimately pass. Do you feel the previous means of defeating dungeons was legitimate? I know, more often than not, players used rez-rushing as a means of kittening any efforts to help their allies in need. Why bother with support abilities? Just get max DPS and if you get unlucky, rush back. Someone goes down? Don’t risk it. They can rush back.

So there is no misunderstanding, I happen to AGREE with the changes in principle. However, the boss encounters were originally calibrated to work within a system which allowed waypoint reviving immediately after dying. Hence the necessity of a “phase 2” promised by the developers, which cannot happen quickly enough.

Why for the love of Tyria did they roll out a partially-developed system that essentially breaks dungeons for multitudes of players, save for a small segment of highly experienced dungeoneers? Why did they not implement this new system including the reworked boss encounters? It just makes no sense whatsoever.

Swagg.9236:

The only reason that “Rez-rushing” as a term even exists is so a select few ANet developers can delude themselves into thinking that running to a fully dead ally in the midst of a boss fight or environmental death trap, kneeling by said ally and subjecting one’s self to certain death situations for 15-second intervals qualifies as “teamwork.” Moreover, apparently dying and sitting out of a boss fight because your teammates are smart enough not to kill themselves trying to resurrect a fully dead ally while there are 1 or 2-hit KO attacks flying about the area also qualifies as “teamwork” in the eyes of ArenaNet. In a game where raw, consistent damage is king (given that there is no trinity), developers decided on a whim that crippling a dungeon group’s ability to do damage should someone in that group die was a good idea.

It’s a 5-man team; not a 40-man raid where losing 2 or 3 people might not be that big of a deal, or getting some sort of spawn wave might actually have an impact on battle. You NEED all five people there constantly to be successful. Removing that just makes dungeons more artificially difficult, tedious and annoying.

I’ve kept silent long enough on this issue hoping for the speedy implementation of “phase 2”. However, since we do not have an ETA on the promised “dungeon boss re-evaluation”, I am compelled to weigh in on this potentially game-breaking change to dungeons.

I have 4 level 80 characters fully kitted in exotics thanks to dungeon rewards. For me, dungeons were not only my “end game”, but a rewarding and challenging method of level advancement since the personal story and renowned hearts get rather monotonous after the second alt. The open world is impoverished from a loot standpoint, so the dungeon token system is the only reliable means of securing decent gear without cashing in gems for gold or playing “TP Wars”.

Despite me being in a very active guild, I ran with lots of PUG groups since guildies were not always available. Some of these groups were quite experienced, but more than half had at least one or two party members that were new to the dungeon or had < level 80 toons they were trying to level. It was rewarding to see first-timers express their appreciation in chat saying “Hey, that was great! Thanks for showing me the ropes!”. As it stands now, a mixed group of experienced and inexperienced players is a recipe for complete frustration.

Case in point, I was in a mixed PUG group the other day in Honor of the Waves. We were on path 1 for TWO HOURS because the party kept wiping due to players becoming a target for the boss during the unreasonably long revival process. Some say, “Well, you just need to use different traits with the new roolz”. My warrior is has 30 points invested in toughness with gear to match and has a +400 toughness bonus when rezzing other players.

It didn’t make a bit of difference.

So after an excruciating couple of hours, we finally get to the last boss: The Butcher. After a furious and valiant effort by all, his health was well over 90% finished when a couple of simple errors ballooned into a full party wipe facilitated mostly by resurrectors becoming easy targets for the boss’s “cheap” 1/2 shot kills. I cannot tell you how demoralizing it was to see The Butcher’s health bar fill up from 10% back up to 100% after the wipe. It was more than one player could take. He apologized in chat, but said he did not wish to continue. He did not “rage quit” by disengaging from the party, but was simply too exhausted to continue.

You know what? I honestly did not blame him one bit.

I am utterly positive that this player’s experience is not unique. So go ahead, plaster the thread with l2p posts with snide remarks about someone’s lack of experience or ability, if doing so somehow elevates you. The fact of the matter is that we already had “elite” dungeons before the patch: Arah and Fractals. Why bring ALL dungeons up to masochistic levels to the exclusion players with less experience and/or ability? Not everyone has cat-like reflexes and even talented players have bad days. ONE simple mistake is now unforgiving and has tremendous consequences for the party. One man down represents a 20% reduction in DPS and overall party effectiveness in an environment where bosses have prodigious amounts of hit points and one-shot kills.

Dastion.3106:

Anyhow, it has nothing to do with his profession, it’s his weapon being special. You can wield Caladbolg no matter what your profession is. As part of the Sylvari storyline you retrieve Caladbolg and in at least one of the paths can wield it, it has it’s own skillset like a summoned weapon.

TLDR: Caladbolg is a racial weapon.

Akin to my engineer picking up an ice bow summoned by an elementalist, even though engis cannot wield the bow as a full-time, equipped weapon.

Good rationale, actually…

Nonetheless, I would like to see necros have at least one other choice in the two-handed weapon department. The staff is virtually all AOE and condition damage, which is fine for condition builds. I am thinking more of a direct damage weapon (like the necro axe). The two handed battle axe was a great suggestion and very necro-like.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Trahearne is a Guardian, if the skills I’ve seen him use are any indication. The only time he does anything necromantic is when he summons the 6 flesh golems (why can’t we do that?), but that is called a Plot Device skill, so it is not representative of anything else.

According to the wiki, Trahearne is indeed a necromancer:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trahearne

The fact that Trahearne is a necro is also mentioned quite specifically during the personal story.

So I say, when will we get to equip a GS or other two-handed weapon that caters more to power/crit builds?

Trahearne is a necromancer, but I find it curious that he wields a greatsword (Caladbolg). Was the necromancer class supposed to include the use of a GS, but this did not make it into the final product? Will the GS be made available to necros in the future?

Is there an official ETA for Phase 2, specifically the fine-tuning of bosses to assume that there will be no rezzing while the party is in combat?

I just want to thank everyone who responded to my thread on this topic. I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated your views.

The consensus seems to emphasize a trait system where implementing more points is not the answer, but reworking existing traits to be more meaningful and synergistic is really the heart of the matter. Many of you provided clear examples, which was great.