Guild Wars 2

ens.9854:

Buffing underpowered utilities to be equal to the ones being played is not power creep by definition—characters are not potentially any more powerful than they were before, they just have more options

Well this is the type of “power creep” i am suggesting. Keep the “upper limit” the same but bring other options up to it without nerfing that “upper limit”.

ensoriki.5789:

There are certain aspects of professions that are weak, and certain aspects that are too strong. However bringing things to the level of “too strong” doesn’t make for a better game.
If I create a skill that one shots everyone, I could give everyone a one shot skill as well, but then the game just turns into 1 shots and is boring. Or I could acknowledge that something is stronger than it should be and tone it down not just so that things are equal but so that overall you have a better experience playing the game.

Sure, I understand that argument but skills don’t “one-shot” everyone.

However, taking your example – if everyone was given a “one-shot kill” button but was also given a “prevent one-shot kill” button, wouldn’t that promote more active play ?

Dahkeus.8243:

It should be avoided.

Case in point: GW1

I’m rather glad you said that. Mind explaining what happened in GW1 PvP?

I was very casual GW1 player doing PvE and really enjoyed playing “OP” builds on paper (i.e: Imbagon) but didn’t exactly carry me through the harder content.

Disclaimer: I’m not advocating power creep or buffs to any particular class… just sparking a discussion

Edit: By “power creep”, i mean buffing currently unviable options while leaving existing “powerful” options.

My view is that power “creep” can actually make the game more FUN.

In my opinion, fun is often linked with achievement and self-efficacy. For example, I love being able to jump away with Rocket Boots which was previously not possible.
However, I did not enjoy the times where I died because I no longer had a stunbreak on my Elixir R.

If every class had their “useless” utilities buffed to give them their capabilities to counter existing commonly-used utilities, what would be the consequences? If would give different builds advantages over other builds but then there would always be situations where someone else is running that a skill counters you.

Rather than introducing nerfs, improving other “useless” skills to allow for counters would promote build diversity and active play (i.e: you may have Stability but i can remove it if I sacrifice some condition damage in a team fight by taking a viable version of Mines instead of Bomb Kit)

As it seems the majority of “balance” suggestions on this forums (i.e Bear Document etc…) focus on “shaves”, i’d like some views on why “power creep” is bad.

- eFame for those decent casual players without friends teams
- Achievement point farmers

As someone who is very much the former, I do find it sad that I care more about my LB rank in SoloQ than in the “competitive” TeamQ

Can’t wait for dungeons to call for “Zerk Engies only”

One thief good, Two thieves bad.

Jebro is awesome

Here’s something i just made on the spot based on your specifications.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqiYH5y3F17IyIFdmoJSR+VZfe8WsFEC-ToAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNEZCB

Just play smart and avoid getting focused (with Blocks/Rocket Boots to escape) then proceed to tossing more grenades into a zerg.

I’ve never actually tried this build so tinker around as you like (especially with Runes/Sigils)

Class: Engineer

1. Burst Thieves
2. Fresh Air Elementalist (good ones)
3. Necros with heavy condi bursts and fear chains

…basically anything that can deal decent damage or conditions quickly.

Have you ever played against Rizadon? He’s Rank 1 SoloQ and an Elementalist that melts down multiple people before you can say hi.

While i agree Ele’s in general are quiet week, the best Eles with their burst are definitely not to be dismissed.

Tsyras.5274:

I guess my goal is to find a build with a reasonable chance in any 1v1, and survive a 1vX, because so many of my tPvP games have come down to these situations.

Not sure how long you expect to survive a 1vX but have you tried this build? It seems fairly popular at the moment:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRw;2cPVi0m53UFx0;9;4T4-JE18A;458-5;0Sc0;3hoHAhoHA2Fn

Elixir S doesn’t have the res of R but it does give you double stealth and a invulnerability to escape. I’d also suggest P/S over P/P for Blocks/Stun/Knockback.

You can’t compare Engineer to Guardian. They fulfill different roles.

Guardian is much better for point defence due to Stability but Engineers can decap & contest Far points like no Guardian could.

Forestnator.6298:

Dirame.8521:

Forestnator.6298:

A serious PvP build without grenades or bombs is not possible.

I hate definitive statements like that. Grenades and Bombs are all well and good but they aren’t the end all be all, that’s for sure.

To be honest, I do also hate this. But: they are (sadly) our one and only choice to be serious. Ofc you can make build “work” maybe you can make builds “solid” without grenades or bombs. But for the high end competition you will need one of those kits. Period.

To add my two-cents to this discussion, I would say that a serious DAMAGE ORIENTED build without Grenades/Bombs is not possible.

While I personally do run Bomb Kit, I feel you can definitely play CC/Bunker builds without either Bomb or Grenades at high-end tPvP

Lupanic.6502:

bunker build without bombs/nades is pretty solid. toolkit/EG/Elixir R works pretty well

Lupanic has the right idea.

I’d suggest trying a Far-point assaulter/bunker as follows:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyaH5yuF1LJxIFdW0hKYfQFqroH53yOG-ToAg2CrIMSZkzIjRSjsGN+Y2A

It’s actually very forgiving and not that hard to play with so many blocks and a stun-breaker which recharges upon reaching 25% hp. If in trouble, just put a shield up or use EG#4 to jump away & cripple chasing enemies.

I think the build you have is a good starting ground but it seems to me that you are trying to do several things at once.

In my opinion, Rifle is best for neutralising a point and keeping it contested but is not so good at defending a point. P/S would be more optimal if you want to defend and hold a point which is what your utilities are primed for.

Likewise, I feel your attempt to go into Power is a bit redundant when you won’t be attacking most of the time as you would be busy dropping Medkits/Blocking.

My suggestion would be to decide what you want your build to do and spec for it rather than trying to be a bunker & assaulter at the same time.

Here is my far-point assaulter build which I use in tPvP:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIq6ZH5SrF1LJxIFdW0hKYfQFyroH53yOG-TkAg2CrIMSZkzIjRSjsGN+A

With my build, I can decap very very fast and generally hold up 1v2 with my many dodges/Blocks/CC. If I feel I’m about to die, I can Rifle 5 in a Smoke Field or Healing Mist to escape, heal up and go back in to decap again. While the build won’t “win” 1v2, you can definitely tie them up for a very long time while contesting the point.

In my opinion, the glory spent on PvP Salvage Kits is better spent on Wintersday Gifts.

For that reason, I have not opened my chests.

Here is a few builds run in tPvP:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Team-Engineer-Guide/first#post3385896

I’d recommend this one for beginners:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxSfF1LJy4DdGYBiUkfW2nHyFbBhA-ToAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8YuA

Some newer builds i’ve seen also run Toolkit instead of Bombs.

I’d be interested in this. Being at work and stuff means I don’t really have time to Team Q with teams (so I end up Soloing in TeamQ at lot).

Would love to play with other awesome SoloQers who don’t have the time to be in a fixed team!

- Turrets still have too many bugs to be playable (and they are all still rather weak)
- AED is useless. All other 3 heals have their place while AED doesn’t.

Agree with you on the following:
- Gadgets definitely need more added to make them used outside of Static Discharge builds
- Reserve Mines taking you out of stealth is silly.

Having participated in the SOAC profession tournament ages ago, i really enjoyed playing with a Engineer team. I don’t really have the time to put this team together but here is a theory-crafted team and doubles up as a half-guide for prevalent builds.

If some guys from NERF or other Engie-only guilds could try it out, let me know how it goes! This team was designed around my experience playing casual ~Top 1000 Team Arena queues.

Far-point decapper/contester:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZH5SrF17IxIFdW0hUYfDL6R+tsjB-ToAg2CrIMSZkzIjRSjsGN+Y2A
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIq6Zn1yuF17IRoH2/+qFUh6K6h+tsjB-TkAg2CrIMSZkzIjRSjsGN+A

This first build is meant to constantly solo attack far-point. There are plenty of knockbacks so you should be able to decap. Lots of blocks for survivability and to hold of 1v2 or even 1v3 while contesting a point. This allows your teammates to have uneven fights and clean up Close/Mid before you die.

The second build is much easier to decap. However, you become a lot squishier and may struggle when it becomes a 1v2 or 1v3.

Bunker engineer:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZH5yuF17IRoHF2wqFUh6K6h+tsjB-ToAg2CrIMSZkzIjRSjsGN+Y2A

This role lacks the knockbacks to decap but combines healing from bombs and elixir guns with blocks to create a pretty good tank. Can indefinitely survive 1v2 and last very long in 1v3s on close point.

Teamfighter Engineer:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZHxy5F1LJy4DdGYBiUkfW2nHyFbBhA-ToAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8YuA

This role more of a middle-ground engineer. Very useful in a teamfight to spread conditions and take someone out using Slick Shoes. Also very good disengage with two stunbreakers. One could take off Slick Shoes for Elixir R instead. (or even Elixir S for more selfish and forgiving play)

HGH Engineer:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelspiYnuSfF17IyoCdmoHPGlNZfe8WsFEC-ToAgyCuI0RljLHjOygsBNEZuA

This role will decide teamfights. Having a HGH Engineer who is not attacked will win any teamfight. However, you will be squishy and will require team support. You won’t be able to stand on point very long so it is imperative this role is accompanied by a Bunker to stay on point. Ideal for roaming Close/Mid and winning all the fights but useless at capping points. Can also replace P/S with P/P or replace Elixir S with Elixir R.

Static Discharge:
I don’t think it works well at high level PvP. Too squishy, other classes do Power bursts better and HGH is generally better for taking someone out. If someone disagrees, feel free to post your SD build cos I honestly have not managed to make one i’m happy with.

Having listed out the various roles I see for an effective Engineer, here is what the ideal start is for each role.

CLOSE – Far-decapper (with P/S) -> Far
MID – Bunker Engineer
MID – Team Fighter (with Elixir R) -> Looks after Close
Roaming Mid/Close – 2x HGH Engineer (one with Elixir S and one with Elixir R)

Alternatively:

FAR – Far-decapper (with Rifle to try Full-cap Far)
CLOSE – Teamfighter (with Slick Shoes) -> Roam to Mid
MID – Bunker Engineer
Roaming Mid/Close – HGH Engineer, Teamfighter (with Elixir R)

A lot of Bunker engineers in tPvP run this along with Automated Response and Elixit Gun. This does offer high regeneration while keeping around the 25% threshold.

I personally (and i know most disagree) dislike running Elixir Infused Bombs as I find the heal too small.

I think the advantage an Engineer has over other Bunkers is the ability to decap. It makes us very effective Far-point assaulters as you can decap then “Bunker” their home point requiring one or two members of their team to come take you down.

During that time, your team mates “should” clean up home/mid.

I agree with OP.

As someone who doesn’t play often enough to be on a regular team, I feel the game has reverted back to when there was no SoloQ.

The significantly better rewards just forces me to go TeamQ and while I don’t exactly get “farmed” by premades, i would like the option of going to SoloQ without thinking about the opportunity cost.

Edit: As for rewarding the time spent on putting a team together, I agree but I feel the increased win chance already more than compensates.

Here’s my variant of that build. It focuses more on decapping and makes a great far-point assaulter. Can hold of 1v2 (maybe not 3) and possibly even cap the point 1v2.

Not sure if Toolkit or Elixir Gun should be taken though…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIq6ZH5SrF17IRoHF++qFUh6K6h+tsjB-TkAg2CrIMSZkDMjRSwsgN+A

Nice video Jebro but could i ask why HGH is making a “return”? If anything, HGH has been made even less viable than before with the change to Incendiary Powder making it impossible to run the trait which gives you 3 stacks of might on heal.

+1. I feel retrospective rewarding tournaments would finally close the page regarding the Skyhammer farmers.

Everyone would be happy!

Just want to throw in my support for the Character-bound MMR.

I’m pretty good on my Engineer… pretty bad at everything else.

I think the way you’ve set up your Traits make it difficult to make minor adjustments. I personally always have 30 in Explosives for the option of Grenades or better Bombs.

Also, I feel Juggernaut is a bit wasted when you’ll be swapping kits often and rarely will you spend a long time in FT.

I used this build pre patch:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VWRw;2cP-9-l6JRFx0;9;4T4-JE247;408-5;0Vw;4hoHAhoHA2Vr

Might try dropping off Forceful Explosives for Automated Smoke Bomb and see what happens.

I find it quiet a nice build 1v1 cos of the amount of confusion i can put on and blocks. If you can get them with Slick Shoes, you can drop loads of bombs on them and that gives you a huge advantage. Also, you can Blast Stealth/Might as required.

In 1v2, again the blocks increase survivability and the TK 2 helps you keep away from melee range. This lets you drop bombs in front of them and do damage while minimising the damage you take yourself. Again, Slick Shoes is key to dealing lethal damage while Inertial Converter gives you an emergency stun break and BoB.

Let me know what you think.

Having played in the SOAC Profession Tournaments EU for Engies, I would love to repeat that again on a regular basis!

I am definitely in if you guys make a guild for this.

Only catch is i don’t think i have enough time to play at a highly competitive level but I would love to play casual tPvP with other Engineers in the evenings.

For PvE, i would suggest Grenades, Bombs, Elixir Gun.

I would swap out Bombs for FT (for Fire field) or TK (for Running stuff) as necessary.

I haven’t watched this week’s yet but new drinking game maybe?

Drink everytime Nakoda says Flamethrower.

Looking forward to listening after work.

I will try this build when i get home. Looks like a great concept! Few points i’d like to raise though:

Do you struggle with 1vX as your Weakness application is single-target? I don’t see how it would work but maybe Grenade Kit #5 could be used somehow?

Also, why have Speedy Kits without Invigorating Speed when you are bunkering?

I feel Elixir H isn’t worth it. You have 2 condition removals every ~20 seconds while Healing Turret offers that every 15 seconds to all allies.

Lastly, i would suggest Sigil of Doom is better than Poison Duration 10%.

Fixing the bugs would be a start

Good read! Only downside to your review is you leave out Engineer (but i don’t blame you since ANet does the same things at SoTGs)

I’d love to hear your thoughts regarding Engies

Missed the video live but nice to add faces to the voices – adds a new dimension to it.

I don’t quiet agree with Amadeus that the Shield 5 change is a buff (mainly cos of the change from 3 seconds → 2 seconds and how it now cancels if you press anything) but that is a debate for another topic :p.

Go Engenious!

I felt a similar feeling when I first played after the patch with my Net Turret. The main reason why you feel terrible is because ALL TURRETS ARE BUGGED with slower firing rates and bugged overcharges.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/BUG-PSA-Turrets-BUGS-COMPILATION-8-BUGS/first#post2299266

I feel like i’ve been preaching this thread to everyone recently but it should definitely get more notice.

I can’t speak for the meta but regarding Engineer builds/changes, I think the analogy of a Carousel is a good one.

Everytime a utility gets overused, it gets nerfed to oblivion and pidgeon-holing everyone into taking a substitute (Elixir S → Elixir R → Rocket Boots). Why can’t they realize that they can buff without over-nerfing and destroying its usage.

As a avid tPvP player, here’s my general thoughts on what has actually been useful and what has been a nerf. My general thoughts are at the bottom.

Useful Buffs:
Elixir Gun – Weakness improvements, Healing Mist as Stunbreaker

Rocket Boots – Awesome peeling and burn damage

Thumper Turret – Stun break on Rumble makes chaining 3 blast finishers more viable

Gadgets in general – Makes SD proc more often but I don’t run SD…damage seems underwhelming in PvP for me.

Sitting Duck* – Sort of a nerf at the same time…as you can’t stack Vulnerability anymore but is now more useful to builds in general

Fireforged Trigger – This is very nice, especially since i believe FT/EG builds have become even more viable with Stunbreaker on EG.

Aftercast time reductions – makes Blowtorch and Jump Shot feel better.

Acidic Coating – Blind on melee hit could help Engie bunkers
Stabilised Armour – Additional defense in addition to Protection Injection

Nerfs:
Elixir R – This hurt. Most engineers don’t run this anymore and take Rocket Boots instead. While the new RB is great, we lose our stunbreaker and res ability.

Shield 5 – Before, you had 3 seconds block while being able to dodge, attack, res, have a coffee. Now you have 2 seconds of not being allowed to press any buttons while having condition damage ticking away at you. Personally i despise this change even more than Elixir R.

Net Turret – They nerf/fixed a bug which made it fire a couple of times in a row when overcharged. Wasn’t OP before since no one really took it anyway…now its just useless.

All Other Turrets – They are now all bugged and have increased time between shots. Overcharges occur less than they should: (Detailed on this post by Ederyn: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/BUG-PSA-Turrets-BUGS-COMPILATION-8-BUGS/first#post2299266)

I definitely find the changes to be an overall nerf. All other changes I haven’t listed here seem very insignificant and don’t add much viability imo while our key skills has been heavily nerfed. From what I’ve seen thus far, Teldo and many other engineers have simply replaced Elixir R with Rocket Boots while keeping a nerfed version of P/S.

I will add this post is mainly based on my own opinions so others may disagree so keep that in mind.

Congratulations EU and NA domination by Engies yay!

Free bump…scary how no Engineers care about Turrets lol. Says something about Anet Balancing.

Did it take more Rocket Boot funzies to get into the Tower in the first place?

I posted this on another thread but i reckon Mortar is salvagable. I suggested this on another thread but i think it’d be more viable if it could Crit, had no minimum range and gave some sort of Banner of Defense buff to anyone using the Mortar instead of some useless Stability.

tattoohead.3217:

Honestly it was just a bug fix not a nerf, When i run net turret in tPvP im using it mostly for the tool belt skill and the occasional overcharge but i rarely drop that turret. Good players can stunbreak and kill your turret too fast.

Right it was a bug fix – but by “fixing” the skills, it has made it even less viable in tPvP. Since it was already ineffective at high-end tPvP, they should have looked at making the Turret better rather than fixing a bug which would make the Turret worse.

I’m all for fixing bugs but not if it a step in the wrong direction. Accidents and bugs should be seen as innovation and emergent changes and good ones should be kept/improved on.

Also, as has been mentioned before… by fixing a bug, they’ve then gone and created a even worse bug by reducing all Turret fire rates and screwing over most Overcharges

Documented along with other Turret Nerf/Bugs by Ederyn:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/BUG-PSA-Turrets-BUGS-COMPILATION-8-BUGS/first#post2291006

I applaud you for gathering data and confirming my suspicious regarding Net Turret. I finally have found my confirmation that it isn’t me sucking all of a sudden and is actually because of turret bugs :P.

Hope they hotfix this ASAP…

I wish Custom Arena’s could be topped up through Glory… Its really counterproductive that to make money, you have to grind PvE while Custom Arena is PvP content.

Woohoo Mortar buffs. Now only make them crit along with having a Passive defensive buff to nearby allies.

Not one to normally complain about change (and actually i think its been good for the most part) but i feel the changes to Net Turret has been OVER THE TOP.

While i admit the chain-daze which occurred was a bit powerful, the weak survivability of NT, slow firing rates, bad AI, easiness to dodge meant that very rarely was Net Turret seen in tPvP or even top-tier 1v1s. All-in-all, i considered it a VIABLE build but not OP and always offered a choice between that, Elixir R or another kit.

Post-patch net turret however does not function AS IT IS DESCRIBED nor is it useful. Testing against Golems, i put down the Turret -> Overcharge and it only fired one overcharged net. Every net after that was a standard net at a low firing rate.

From tooltips, Overcharge duration is 10 seconds and increases rate of fire by 50% which suggests it should at least fire 2 electrified nets (one every 5 seconds) rather than 1.

The experience i have described was from testing yesterday so if this bug has been fixed and i sound idiotic then kittycats but either way, I feel the Net Turret has been changed from being supremely viable in certain builds to being very underwhelming.