Guild Wars 2

Chokolata.1870:

MAIN HAND DAGGER

-One suggestion i have seen is the dagger one . Makes sense , it is fairly simple and pretty cool… Why should the thief be the only one with the ninja feel to him :p

1 Auto attack chain * – melee auto attack chain that does damage and inflicts 1 bleed for 2-3 seconds for the first 2 strikes . The 3rd strike gives fury to the pet for 3 seconds .

2 Primal Leap – 600 range leap that inflicts 2-3 stacks of torment for 5 seconds

3 Fan of Knives – Throw daggers in an area around the ranger inflicting blind and cripple for a few seconds .

really like your idea, thats all i say.

I wont really give more ideas because i suck at balance and what i would suggest would probably be OP.

Love the one you suggest though, would use it.

Daecollo.9578:

Spear.

15char

if they give spear as a weapon to the ranger, i am never doing another alt again.

Seriously the spears is used in every culture as a weapon of choice(just like the sword), it is an iconic weapon for hunters of all sort, cavalry, footmen etc.

But in guildwars 2 we get torches and warhorn. I mean i can understand the warhorn but i find the torch such a lackluster weapon in term of look and coolness.

i want ma spear!

Zenith.7301:

Raven.9603:

Zenith.7301:

Are you an idiot? The downtime of the signet is meaningless when Lupicus is killed in 46 secs-2 minutes by raw burst.

Obviously we’re talking with a kitten who’s done very little of PvE to claim that somehow remorseless will be useful to a group that can already stack vulnerability to begin with if you have 2 warriors in a group.

So all dps is relegated to 1 boss kill and 1 group comp now? The DPS sample time i used was 48 seconds just for that signet, which means Remorseless will STILL out dps SotW on a 46second Lupi kill. It would have to approach sub-40seconds to beat out remoresless by any significant amount.

Each warrior can maintain 10 stacks if using a greatsword. that leaves room for 5 stacks. 5 stacks that you can cover with Remorseless, if rapid fire is too much of a damage loss for you. Or you know, if your in a group that doesnt have have 2 greatsword warriors.

Zenith.7301:

There are simply classes that do vulnerability much better than us, and if you’re using rapid fire on a boss to stack vulnerability you should be kicked from the group anyways as any competent group expects melee stacking for much better damage and boon stacking.

If you’re only considering melee ranger options the change to longbow is irrelevant to you.

On My mark, axe/mace, vuln on crit…. stop talking. On top of that you get vuln from the mesmer and guardian in your group.

And yes, I’m talking about specific group compositions. That’s the whole point of PvE, to optimize.

If you have any doubts that the current meta group can down most bosses in this game in less than 1.5 minutes, I’m going to drop this convo with you.

i dont quite understand what you want.

You are saying you want the old instant 10 stacks from hunter shot but at the same time you are saying that with your perfect meta pve group that push the limit, a warrior alone can cap 25 stacks of vulnerability by itself and doesnt need your help.

So since others do it so well, that you lost it on hunter shot or not doesnt matter, he didnt need your help anyway.

I like the change for the stealth and remorseless. Good way to stealth stomp someone with zephyr, stealth move away asap, drop aggro or even start a barrage/rapid fire without being interrupted right off the bat.

So far moving the 10 stacks from hunter shot to rapid fire didnt make the huge of a difference but then again, im not in deep fractal and doesnt really care for it.

Eviator.9746:

darkchicken.8692:

Eviator.9746:

jportell.2197:

Why would I take all those elixirs and not take HGH? Asinine imo. Plus you have no weapon skills aside from pistol and shield….

Clearly all you need are 3 damage-dealing weapon skills, plus acidic elixirs.

Did you notice he took kit refinement, but has no kits? No, this guy is trolling the AR haters

he did take a kit, the med kit. With kit refinement it does Magnetic Aura which give projectiles reflection

I was pwned.

haha it happened, when i first read it i didnt see it and was about to make the same comment :P

Zel : This is the problem with forums. It is not about win or lose. I’m discussing a skill I hope the devs to look at.

The thing is, you seem to often discuss traits/skills that you want the developers to look at. You aint more important then any other players and this particular trait aint that important too, if it was that annoying and that insurmountable, there would be a flood of thread, just like the thieves when they were one shoting people.

You are taking a pick on it because it is one that causes problem when you play your necro/mesmer and it is far more easy to ask for a nerf then to try and be better. You aint here talking about it because you want the game to be more balance, to make the game a better place, you are trying to make a path for your necro to perform better.

You say its not about win or lose. I am 100% confident that i you were a warrior, you wouldnt be talking about that skill. You lost to an engi and you are angry about it, we understand.

Now get better and kill all the engis

Eviator.9746:

jportell.2197:

Why would I take all those elixirs and not take HGH? Asinine imo. Plus you have no weapon skills aside from pistol and shield….

Clearly all you need are 3 damage-dealing weapon skills, plus acidic elixirs.

Did you notice he took kit refinement, but has no kits? No, this guy is trolling the AR haters

he did take a kit, the med kit. With kit refinement it does Magnetic Aura which give projectiles reflection

sorrow.2364:

But how can you say that you outplay your enemy when you have a trait that grants you automatically 100% immunity to the enemy’s main source of damage?
That isn’t outplaying someone, you’re not taking any skill to get at less than 25% HP and being untouchable.

It isn’t even a counter. A counter is a tool given to someone to be more effective against a specific build. You still need skills and a brain to effectively use your counter.

For instance, Well of Power is a good counter to AoE conditions. It needs to be placed at the right time to lowers the effectiveness of conditions.

Those kind of traits don’t belong to a game which wants to be called e-sport, at all.

It is our counter to you. How does a counter’s counter work? We dont have enough cleanses (and still have enough offensive to deal with you) and this is like “the last line of defense”. How do you propose we deal with a full condition spamming necromancer? how does the engineer usually kill you? how do they counter you with AR?

You talk about AR as if we were becoming invulnerable at 25% and less. I know it has been said many time and i dont want to run in a circle with arguments but each of your attacks do have a damage part not related to conditions, even if its low. Its your fault for going all out in one area and expecting to kill everything with it. Its like in dungeon and dragon, you make a mage based about ice and ice only, taking all the feats that make you better at it and then you encounter an ice immune creature. Does the game master tune it down so you can kill it or you adapt and live with your weakness.

Its not like every classes had this particular trait or that every engineer are running AR. How many time do you face an AR engineer? Do they always beat you? How do you deal with engineers usually? do engineers kill you sometime? how?

im not doing sarcasm or trolling, im really asking.

jportell.2197:

So when over half of the classes are running a condition spam build it is by no means OP for one build to be a counter to that. When people started griping about how out of hands conditions are the response was “Learn to counter the meta! Build around it!” Now that we have it is being called OP, coincidence? Just because one 25% health trait makes it harder for condition spammers to roll their face across the keyboard and dish out every condition possible to win does not make it OP.

It is a GM trait with a strict requirement and a low margin of error for survival when it kicks in.

love that, sums it up pretty well.

ronpierce.2760:

Eviator.9746:

ronpierce.2760:

Eviator.9746:

The last several posts have just been theorycrafting. Video or it didn’t happen.

I’ve been pvping for quite a while, I don’t need a video to show you what easily happens all the time… If this trait “never. not once” never saves you all, you’re doing something HORRIBLY wrong. Are you sitting at 30% letting them stack condies?

Like I’ve said before I don’t have an opinion one way or another whether it’s OP at high levels of play. But you would sure be able to make your point much better if you had video, instead of just one-sided logic.

It doesn’t take rocket science or a how to to understand how crippling an enemy that has to be in melee range to attack and being immune to CCs while having perma vigor and swiftness makes for a one sided fight. I mean… hell, just do the math…

Again, perma vigor and swiftness can be common to an engineer and not necessarily AR build, hell i got it in my pve kit build. Immune to CC or heavy cleanse build can both do the same result. Its not AR by itself that make this combo strong, a full elixir build with cleansing formula would do the same result. Just as a shout guardian with speed mark on the ground can outrun you too, just like a rogue can stealth and use shortbow to get away.

Its your own fault for not carrying a range weapon or to make a spec that the only way you have to catch to someone is conditions. Its not because you dropped his HP that you will get the kill, pvp is not always about a clear win over someone. If he outrun you its part of the game, just like when i played my guardian, alot of people outran me even if i was stronger and had the upper hand.

sorrow.2364:

It has always been the same when people report something OP in this game.
Everyone who plays that profession often find any kind of excuse and fictional “drawback” to make the trait/skill/combo whatever looks not OP.

It happened with Thieves and the backstab combo. People used to say “but.. but thieves are squishy!”
It is happening with Necro and the huge condi burst. People are saying “but… but Necros can be focused easily!”

People should realize that those justifications don’t work at all.

People tend to overexagerate a bit and people tend to yell “wolf” sooner then it should. What usually make the developers change something is not the actual report on how “OP” something is but the number of people reporting it.

Because just look at this post, some people dont know a thing about engi and you can easily sniff that and some others do know about it but still glorify the talent. AR is made to counter a very specific kind of build and not every engi runs it because outside of this small window, it suck. It is used in tourney now because everyone got a full condi necro since its the FoTM but do you see more engi using AR in pve? in WvW? Do every tournament match where there is an engineer result in him having AR?

Some people fight because they are scared of losing their edge, of losing what make the class fun for them. Some people dont want a challenge in pvp, they just want to brutally win over someone without a fight and feel strong (twinks in other mmo are a good proof of that). So losing a one shot combo can be terrifying for them. But now we are talking about a defensive skill oriented toward conditions only at 25% health and lower, its not the same thing.

Someone was saying earlier in this thread about “A well played dps should be able to outplay a bunker” which i agree, but what about a well played bunker? How do you know you had the upper hand on that engi? because you dropped him to 25% He made a tailored spec to get there and survive, thats its strenght, thats its grandmaster trait, 30 point into a line just for THAT.

So how do you know you outplayed that engi and you deserve the victory? You know when you outplayed someone when they run for their life or they are dead. If he is still hopping everywhere around, dodge rolling and trying to survive, you dont have the upper hand yet.

So necros, learn to deal with your counter.

ronpierce.2760:

Eviator.9746:

The last several posts have just been theorycrafting. Video or it didn’t happen.

I’ve been pvping for quite a while, I don’t need a video to show you what easily happens all the time… If this trait “never. not once” never saves you all, you’re doing something HORRIBLY wrong. Are you sitting at 30% letting them stack condies?

then just make a video and prove your point with it. Show us a mighty engineer holding a point and that you cant get rid of him because of AR.

Ill discuss the video with you and dont dismiss it. I can say “i was wrong” but right now i still believe i am right.

ok so i tried to make the build from what everyone says an engi always have on them with AR

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlspqb3zSgF87IRoHF2+qV0jHTZH/pgcB

I couldnt possibly fit everything in there like protection injection, speedy kit, backpack regenerator (since you know, elixir gun and bomb), i couldnt get either all those elixirs to clean away with cleaning formula 409 since i had to make place for the OP elixir gun and the bomb kit. So we got no supply drop since we need elixir X for the perma balance too.

I think alot of people dont know alot about engi and they are just mad. There is only a certain quantity of traits and utility we can take and the way some of you described us, there would be a ton of different AR build.

So lets try to get this straight. At the start people were complaining of AR and perma conditions cleansing via elixirs, then we moved to hold a perma weakness while comboing in the field of the EG gun (the weakness last one second so you better not combo if you want it to be perma.., and the damage is terrible) then we moved to the fact that AR user play with bomb kit to heal and hold point.

I dont really know what we are debating anymore, only AR? Engi bunker with AR trying to make a stand on a point? Ar + Cleansing formula? Ar + protection talent?

Perhaps we should start making argument while linking a specific build because the way some people talk about it, i got way more traits and utility slots.

i say your 0/25/0/20/25 is better but here is my reasoning around it (since i play one too).

This is of course the core of the build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqSXn1yuF1rIBIF19uiUAgGD (0/20/0/20/0)

Now i made some variant around and it really depend on your playstyle more then anything else.

The one i use right now : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqicn1yuF17IxIFdm0gUU37K6R+bslB
Keeping perma swiftness and vigor, i can use it both in pve and pvp but lacking some defense in pvp but it still more then enough for group roaming. Static discharge in this build is meh, thinking of switching it out since it doesnt work with healing mist and regenerating mist. With energy conversion matrix, its not rare for me to have 3-5 boons so its a damage increase.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqicn1yuF1LJxYGdm0gUU37KSR+b8XBA
Bomb from dodging and 10% more damage when endurance is full. With invigorating speed, its easy to keep being full and still use a dodge here and there. The bomb do a nice damage but its not always useful.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqicn1yuF17IxoHdm0bGki6eXRKyfjB
With adrenal implant and invigorating speed, you regenerate energy like crazy and can do “almost” endless string of dodges. Which can be really useful in WvW

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqicn1yuF17IxIFdm0geU37CYRKyfjB
With precise sight. If you do some flamethrower auto attack and got a good crit chance, they stack SUPER fast which can be super useful to the group, offering up to 25% more damage on a boss is huge.

So what i learned from this thread so far

1- With automated response, i am a living god under 25% hp. Necro can no longer do any sort of damage!

2- Necro dont want to l2p or adjust, they want their counter to be nerfed so they can kill it.

3-The game should be tuned for 1v1 fight

4-Some skills on my engi got new abilities i didnt know about and i can double take grandmaster traits!

Seriously, i did give it a whirl next week and a good necro was still able to kill me with it. In most aspect of the game, that trait is near worthless, HgH is much better. Its only a somewhat counter to bad necro running full condi.

so i tried 4x altruism and 2x water and it do work really well right now.

I run around with my FT in my hand to gain free might stack and when i enter combat i often go Ft#2 , switch to mekittenit, switch to tool kit and pry bar. I usually hit with 13 or so might stack and i can start doing some fire combo and get around 16-17 solo.

The 30% duration is good for my swiftness, vigor, might and fury from mekittenit (16 sec with rune).

Dasboba.1652:

^ Yes, I have 2 Altruism, Enhanced performance, and a sigil of battle. In combat, I get 9 stacks of might just toggling my healing kit. I get 6 out of combat. I chose to go with 2 Altruism and 4 rabid orbs but the same would work for rubies. When I go with juggernaught, it’s not uncommon for me to sit at 15+ stacks in combat. I usually have a tough time finding room for a FT in my build though.

Thats the hardest part indeed, fitting all i like in a bar. I usually try to go with the situation but still, i would love to have my 3 kits at all time but then, i lose on utility and life saving gadgets.

Its the hardest part of being an engineer… choosing what to pick up for a fight.

Ok so i played with builds for a long time, trying to figure what the hell im confortable with and what is my playstyle.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyaX3SyF87IxIFkuzgUU37K6R+bsjB-e

i switch some stuff in and out depending on the situation. Like i usually go with 2 kits and rocket boots. I try to do as much combo field water as possible etc.

Right now i run berserker armor, aiming for celestial trinkets (2 pieces so far, rest knight).

Now i was looking at my armor and what to put in it.

Now i was thinking of might duration..

Juggernaut alone is 6 stack ticking to 7..

With +60% might duration from strenght, fire and hoelbrak, juggernaut alone get me to 10 ticking to 11 stack of might, thats without doing blast field fire.

With +50% might and +30% general boon duration from strength, water and monk, its dancing around 9-10 stacks so it would help me keeping swiftness, regen, vigor and might.

or i could go with ruby orb which seem to be less strong but more useful and lazy? let me try to explain

With ruby orb, i cannot be boon stolen, boon destroyed and i dont need to build anything so right at the start of the fight or even if i change for tool kit, i still have the same power/preci/crit
one = 6 slots for my armor
20 power = 120 power
14 precision = 84 precision
2% crit damage = 12% crit damage

or i could go with might stacking

35 power and condition per stack at 80 (which go well with FT and EG)
6 might = 210 power, 210 cond (which is obtainable no matter what
9 might = 315 power , 315 cond (50% might / 30% all boon)
10 might = 350 power, 350 cond (only might)

Total for ruby orb
———————————————
+120 power, +84 precision , + 12% crit damage

Total for 50%might/30% rest
————————————————
25 power from strength rune
50 healing from monk/water rune
315 power/315 cond from juggernaut self
+50% might duration from all source + 30% boon duration from all source

Total for 60% might
——————————————————
75 power from strength, fire, hoelbrak
350 power/350 cond from juggernaut self
+60% might duration from all source

I saw too some rune of altruism, how good are they? I dont see them in the mist so i cant test them. Do the might/fury proc from healing mist (EG toolbelt), Regenarating mist (turret toobelt)?

Halp… i dont know what to decide about these. I feel like the ruby orb would be less hassle but i feel like im losing on the longer fight or a boon heavy party. I feel like the 50% might/30% rest would be perhaps the best one?

love it, would like answers as well

I had to log just to participate at this thread.

I love turrets as an engineer, i really do! I think they are awesome… when they survive.

So here is what happen to my turrets most of the time

-Drop a turret with the mobs half health to help me get a boost in damage to finish it, EVERY SINGLE ENEMIES change to my turret and gang…. it, it take nearly a second and no more turret. Sometime my rocket launcher turret doesnt even have time to do it special move. I dont mind that my turret take the heat for me but it now turn it into a 60 seconds for a single attack that it take instead of me.

-Veteran mobs usually 2 shots my turret

-Tried metal plating, tried to be specced in power wrench, i cannot make my turret live through a veteran that decide to attack it. Even worse, to heal my turret, i usually have to place myself in the cleave cone and still take damage to try to maintain a subpar turret damage. So i lose life and i lose attacks i could be doing myself to maintain the turrets. I can sometime position myself good and get both the turret and the enemy but usually its not worth it, my turret die

-Champion one shot my turrets, even the thumper

-Except for world pve (not talking about pvp, didnt try my engi in pvp), my turrets are useless. In dungeon, often its the smart target/wide aoe that kill it. The enemies doesnt even have to go to my turret and destroy it. Even if its not an aoe, i dropped yesterday a rocket turret and as soon as it was deployed, a ghost soldier immediatly ran toward it, one shot it and went back to its target… i was like … O.O … -_-’

-Does not fire on my enemy. For exemple the Rocket turret special move. I was fighting an ogre, had it highlighted and was firing on him. I drop my turret, select the ogre, press it special attack and it fire on a rock dog on the other side …

So even if you spec with everything, self repair, higher health, run tool kit, it is not even worth it, not a small bit. Their cooldown is long, you can yourself in danger trying to repair them.

The only usefulness they have is if you take the trait to deploy them where you want to (deployable turret), you can peel the enemy for a couple seconds. They run to your turret, destroy it and come back on you.

Would love to make a turret build, sadly they can only be useful in world pve and even there —-- …

I sprung (or got the effects) perhaps 6-7 traps yesterday. Four of them were in forts/settlements.

Perhaps its because of novelty but i was in the distance, making a straight line for a ranger. When he spotted me, he went into crouch position for 3-4 secs so i was like… yeah he put a trap. Fought him a little bit and out of curiosity near the end of the fight i stepped back on it and it was an anti-stealth trap.

Some people do use it for single target as of today. A thief without stealth kill many build survivability and burst potential. Its sad

LightningBlaze.4913:

More likely this is because most thieves overuse the constant stealth mechanic in wvw.

I dont get that argument though.

Why shouldnt you overuse your class special tool? We got attacks that change from being in stealth, we get alot of way to go in stealth. Most build and survivability tool in trait are relied to stealth. We dont win fight because we used steal, we win because we stealth (for most build. infiltrator is brand new).

I mean if as a guardian i overuse my virtue.. its bad? Like every time i get a kill my virtue come back up and i reuse it, reblind people and put a heavy fire dot. I use my elite to give me back my virtues and reuse them instantly. I keep using them

Just as i keep using my toolbelt, my pets with ranger, switching elements and made a spec for my warrior that my burst come back faster and my adrenaline too so i can do it every 8 seconds.

Locking away a class mechanic for 30 secs really screw alot of builds for a single class. Stealth zerg bomb was harsh true and preventing it with a well place trap is ok because everybody in the zerg can still fight even if the TACTIC fail.

Locking stealth away from the thief basically render him useless, taking away is survivability and his burst. Just try locking the stance switching on an elem just to see how they would feel about that.

i would have to try it with the sword, hammer and shield command, see for how long i can get the person burning XD

Well they seem to have around 10-15 k hp.

Sword = can cleave if enemies are placed well , around 500 ish damage (dont know if my gear affect it or not. Can be sacrified (not if traited) to do an aoe over 1k non crit

Bow = Send bolt of healing to random players (well i was alone so it was always on me) for around 400 and it remove a conditions which is super nice. When sacrificed, it make an arrow shower on itself and heal everyone in the area.

Hammer = Strike (that do damage ) and push the target , when commanded, it knock down the target.

Shield = Untraited it last 20 secs, on these 20 secs ,i almost had like 17 seconds of a projectile absord (reflect?) bubble on me. You can command it to go an attack for around 800 non crit and put weaken on the enemy.

Like said , you have trait to make them last longer, come back faster, do more damage and that they dont get destroyed when you use the command.

They are definately good, they just need to stay alive. When in the outside world , they usually do their full duration for me

Setun.4368:

Ramiah.5648:

Okay so what I’m hearing is that I CAN use staff/scepter+focus (or torch, as some other posts seem to suggest that for range) and be a holy wizard, but considering Spirit Weapons and Meditations (holy nuke-type stuff) aren’t that great, it’s only marginally effective.
That’s very sad. Well, perhaps after the buffs come through, I can revisit it again.
Oh and the armor doesn’t bother me too much. The chain skirts look kinda like you are wearing chainmail robes which I think is neat.

Not sure where you heard meditations aren’t that good, because that’s complete bunk. Meditations are definitely more for personal survival / condition shedding rather than the usual shout/AH builds everyone gravitates towards. Using monk’s focus each meditation heals for 2k health. Plus Judge’s Intervention (a gap closer that aoe burns), and Contemplations of Purity (converts all conditions to boons) are stun breakers, so you’ll be hard to lockdown in both PvE and PvP. On top of that Smite Condition is on a stupid short cooldown, and does an aoe blast that does more damage if it cures a condition. So if anything I’d say give the meditation build a shot for yourself and judge how it works with the playstyle you’re looking for.

As for spirit weapons I’m not sure how much more useful they are with the recent hp increase, but in pvp sans aoe damage I noticed most people tend to ignore them or just don’t target them at all. I haven’t really messed with spirit weapons much so can’t say much else.

I agree with Setun, im not sure where you heard that.

Meditations skills are really good, just as shout. People tend to use shout more since Altruistic healing to help the whole group but monk focus give you strong self healing capability while they are great tools. So yes meditation or even consecration are really great.

The only thing that can be meh in the guardian in term of spec is the spirit weapon for a single reason, its a pet. In guild wars 2, pet get 100% damage from aoe and back before the patch and still even sometime stand in the cleaves. Since your dps or your usefulness is not only based on those weapons (compared to the ranger or a necro pet build), you can still do fine even if your spirit weapon is destroyed. You can do even the whole pve exploration/world with spirit weapons just fine. Even 1v1 pvp or some Tpvp you can use them (not saying you will be as efficient as another build), the hammer knockdown, the bow aoe and heals, shield reflect is super awesome etc.

The only problem with those weapons come in big battles or dungeon where you need to be efficient (high fractals). Because bosses will drop aoe that one shot everything in it or at least, one shot your spirit weapons. So since you dont have a perfect control over it like a necro (ranger can call back the pet), if the aoe start under your spirit weapon, say goodbye to it. But like i said, your damage is not solely based on it, even if your sword gets killed, you can get out a bow and do some healing with it, you can get a hammer. The spirit sword can stay out for like 45sec and have only 24sec reload when traited, you can command it to do a descent aoe damage at the same time you still attack. The cooldown start when the weapon dissapear so you dont have 100% uptime on a weapon.

If you are looking for high level fractals dungeon, zerg pvp or really succesful roaming (since i dont know the potency of these weapons in 1v1), you should go shout,consecration or meditation.

Anyway respecing is cheap and you dont need a particular set of gear to make pet stronger, they have their own stats. So its kinda almost free to try out.

As an exemple : Im lvl 80 with modest gear, not full exotic. I have 0 traits toward spirit weapons. The slash non crit of my sword hit for 500 (in knight gear, precision toughness power) while my auto attack with my hammer is 500. Sacrificing it (if traited the sword is not destroyed) made an aoe crit for 1600 damage. The auto attack can slash multiple enemies if placed well.

So i think its fair to say its really decent. 45 sec duration traited, 24 sec cooldown traited. 1k per swing , can aoe 4 time (1 every 10sec) if traited

symbol of faith give the boon regen, which heal the ally.

Writ of the merciful do direct healing ( 0,075x+107 i think was the formula (x being your heal stat)

So if someone stay in your symbol of faith they will gain regen + being direct healed by your trait.

Even if this was 2 regen, they would just stack in duration on the person. If you put 10 sec regen on someone then 15 sec, the person will now have 25 sec regen.

Ramiah.5648:

I have always wanted to play a “holy mage” type of character. Most games with priest/paladins have either an alternative for damaging (i.e. shadow spells) or simply can’t deal damage.
So, here’s the deal, give it to me straight, can you play this type of Guardian and be effective? If not, that’s fine, I’ll move on and let my dream continue to be just a dream, but if it’s decent, and I can finally be the character I have always wanted, I’d be very happy. I was looking at maybe doing spirit weapons and staff/scepter+focus. Any other suggestions on making this work?
Oh, and are spirit weapons even worth it now that they can be targeted, or should I look into maybe meditations or something instead?

Yes you can. Guardian is the best at healing if spec and geared for. Staff is a great weapon and scepter got decent damage (an got an incoming buff to projectiles speed later down the line). If you take consecration spells, spirit weapons and such ,youll feel like a holy mage.

The only problem youll encounter would be gear look. Its hard to look like a clothy as a platewearer.

Geotherma.2395:

Vitality only helps you, a little extra HP really does nothing for mobs who hit for 20k.
Tough is entirely selfish because you are living longer than others, why not share bro?
Power, only benefits you because if others are tanky and staying alive you are just dpsing in easy mode while they use skill to stay alive.
Arguments can be made for any stat that it is selfish, and yet when that MF wearer sells the Berserker gear that dropped on broker and you buy it, doesn’t seem so selfish then? Or when MF wearers get tons of t5/t6 mats and you can make your legendarys and other things, are you thanking the coft path 1 guys or the MF guys in orr?
.

Really? I think you are mostly out of argument because those doesnt make any sense.

More vitality = Help you stay alive longer to do more dps, help rez others. Group stat, you help on the content and by you staying alive, you help everyone with buffs, damage and support. (whatever class you play.

More toughness = Help you stay alive longer to do more dps, help rez others. Group stat, you help on the content and by you staying alive, you help everyone with buffs, damage and support. (whatever class you play.

More power or crit = You hit harder , kill thing faster which in itself reduce the chance of people dying if the creature die faster. Some crit abilities proc effect like Empowering might which give more damage to everyone around. This help the fight end quicker, which make it a Group stat.

More healing = You rarely take more healing unless you wanna heal and help your group (except bunker pvp/wvw build, even then it make the regen you give to people better). Group stat again.

More magic find = You alone find the object, it doesnt benefit no one in the group. It doesnt make you stay alive longer, it doesnt help your teammate, it doesnt kill the mob faster, it doesnt interrupt, cancel aoe. You only get a % of chance to get a piece of loot, yourself, alone. By wearing this stat, you choose personnal greed over group efficiency.

Selling mats and items. SELLING mats and items…. SELLING … SELLING … MAKING PROFIT MAKING MONEY. You dont give me these mats, you dont give me the object your magic find got you to help me get better do you? No you sell them. So you are dead weight in dungeon and then you sell me what you found?

Its like you spit in my face by making me carry you then you slap me and laugh while i need to buy the item you found while i carried you.

Star Ace.5207:

Nobody is denying that it’s flawed. I don’t like using it because it’s flawed.

What some of us deny is attributing “morals” to the issue. Numbers are not moral, and we don’t know what’s on people’s hearts when they make their choices. Anti MF users have enough ammo to dislike it WITHOUT stating it’s because it’s a “selfish” stat. There are many logical reasons why it’s not good. But selfishness isn’t it, because you don’t get to know who is a selfish person or not (it does open a huge can of worms, because it’s also self-serving to accuse others of doing something you wouldn’t do-also, I bet most people are not bothered by MF gear because they are “pure-hearted” individuals, but because they feel they are being “cheated” by the player who uses MF gear-this is not about who’s the “more moral” player.)

Therefore, it’s not a matter of math or logic, but even common sense. You don’t judge that which you don’t know, period. It’s not black or white (the stat may be “black”, but the motive for use isn’t, necessarily.)

The biggest problem with MF gear is that it encourages these kind of unnecessary flame wars and needless arguments about who’s the more “upright” player. I am sure that’s what ANet sees as the main problem as well. The stat% loss makes some people in groups to be too paranoid about it (promotes segregation), and even for solo play it’s quite sub-optimal due to players having to sacrifice the efficiency of their build just to POSSIBLY (but not surely) get better drops-see how I said it was bad without resorting to saying it’s a “selfish stat” and without claiming that players that use it MUST be “selfish?”

I get what you mean no worries.

But i think some people said it with emotions behind. It is not the person that it selfish but the stat itself, promoting single reward vs helping your group as being a more efficient and self sustaining member.

Like my wife love the magic find stats, she get to have more lewt! Before dye got nerfed for drop, she was running full mf (although low level) gear to find even more. But when she did like AC or CM with her MF gear , she didnt have toughness nor vitality (she was elem). Every single aoe or hit she didnt avoid and sometime is was almost impossible to avoid because she was out of endurance, she would get one shotted. Me with my warrior back in time i could take 2-3-4 hits before going down. Giving me an actual response time before dropping.

Still today, running with MF gear in dungeon, you sacrifice a tremendous amount of stats , which is 11 slots, 11 enhance slots + consumables. Even if you mix and match your gear, you still lose quite alot of points making you less efficient at an activity that is GROUP CENTRIC where as MF is ONLY FOR YOU.

Like i said, if someone was running MF and we would get a share or even his full %, i wouldnt say a word against it, because he would boost our income and i would gladly work harder for it. But now you ask me to help carry (depending on the player skill) someone through the dungeon for his personnal gain?

Would you work an hour in real life while another dude is working with you too but always have the easiest chores or even take double break time. Or even, you work the same as the other guy, do the same exact job but you are more efficient then him, clearly. You get pay 10$ and he get pay 20$ while you did most of the work or are more efficient? Is it fair? no it isnt.

MF is a SELFISH stat and got no place in a MULTIPLAYER game. I would even say i despise magic find in everygame, be it diablo or whatever. Its stupid to trade your best gear for lesser gear to find more better gear but keep wearing the bad gear to keep finding better gear.

The concept of magic find is only fine as a bonus. Like for diablo 3, i would agree with magic find only for paragon level, get rid of the stats on the items. Then ill start liking magic find. Who ever said no to a fortune shrine?

Then nobody will run the other gear, everybody will wear magic find gear.

The reason we dont wear MF gear is to make the dungeon experience the less painful possible. Im sure you have been in dungeon with wipes, people that are on their back 3/4 of the time.

Wearing MF gear right now seriously impair your survivability at the expense of gaining more loot.

So you make people around you technically have to support you more, work harder for you (if you dont pull your weight) while YOU ALONE benefit from it.

I dont care if you wear mf in WvW or World pve.

But when i play with someone, i want them to be the best they can because the content is made to do it with 5 man. If you one drag everybody else down for personnal gain then you make 4 other people waste their time for your own greed.

Thats why an inspect button would be needed to see those MF wearer.

If MF wasnt making a difference with other PVE gear, people would form a full group of MF people without problem. But you dont see many people glad to claim that they run a full MF set, people keep it silent because they know they will get kicked.

In everygame there is magic find, i hate it. I hate to have to give my efficient armor away to wear something bad in hope to drop something good.

Same goes for the paragon system in D3, i think its stupid to some extent.

Ok when you are Paragon lvl 100, you get all the magic find and you can wear your good gear. BUT WHATS THE POINT?! when you reach lvl 60, its where you want to gear yourself, not 3 months later after you wore a magic find set, fought blood sweat and tears and are now fully gear and everything is a cake walk, thats not the time to wear your normal set anymore.

Magic find should go, its a selfish stats that doesnt bring anything interesting gameplay wise to the game.

I played all the classes and i think the guardian and the engineer doesnt really much of a ground game when you are about to die.

1. - Is the worst of all the abilities. The damage is super poor and its a channel. You cant switch target until you finish the full lenght of it. I think that if this ability only is changed, it would make the guardian better on the ground. Often i go down, still mashing buttons and he start auto attacking and i didnt get to pick the lowest health target to try and drop it and die because it took 2-3 seconds of channeling that weak beam on a full health mob.

1. - i guess its ok. The damage is not there either but since its a push which is useful both in pve and pvp, i could live with it that way, would love perhaps like a 10% damage boost on it.

1. - not bad to get a chunk of health back, didnt try with bigger symbols and healing symbols if it make it better because its so small that it usually dont hit anything ( if it can in the first place) but its a good help.

So yeah , basically when i get on the ground, its a death sentence where as my thief, ranger, warrior, elementalist and even necro i felt like i had a fighting chance.

nagymbear.5280:

lioka qiao.8734:

Quick hints for all you thief haters out there:
- Knockback and immobilize are a thief’s worst enemy.

Oh yeah, now we know your weakness, hoorraah for pewning thieves all knight every day.

gets on ranger and checks his skills

/sadface

I don’t want a thief nerf, giving mug heal was a nerf.

On a more serious note, I’d like every thief to realize and/or admit how annoyingly, ridiculously overpowered stealth is in wvw. There is no counter for it, you cannot block it, you cannot interrupt it, you cannot destealth a thief. In return the games balances that by giving stealth buffs, and traits to make it even stronger?! Are you kidding me? There is no drawback for using stealth. I did take my lvl50 thief into wvw and know its a dangereous game to play a glassy thief. I know that thieves get stealth to make up for being so squishy. But I also think that stealth should be a tool to set up an ambush and deal high damge, and a tool to get out of a fight. Noone should be allowed to be in stealth during a fight, while also being able to attack and stay stealthed. And noone should be able to deny you badges of honor (while not the most important thing in wvwm it is a pretty big part of it) by using stealth with it being available in abundance. I’m glad to see some thieves offer tips to those that are not mindlessly yelling “NERF”, “OP” or a combination of those btw.

The thing his, they just need to put a 1second internal cooldown on smoke leap finisher.

Stealth is not that OP because you can still dps him while in stealth, you can still knockback , stun etc. You know he is there. Some people when a thief go in stealth they just stand there and look around, they stop using abilities. #1 combo for melee is the best tool to tell you where he is. Thing like mesmer greatsword push is super to keep a bit of a distance with a stealthed thief. Guardian #5 hammer is great to protect yourself while he is in stealth.

To go in stealth its cloak and dagger which cost 6 initiative or a 40sec/60sec utility. Its not free and by itself bring no DPS. It does not give him stability, it doesnt make him immune to damage. You just lose your visual clue on where he is.

Most mmo where there is a class that can stealth can usually go back to stealth and i think gw2 got the best stealthing mechanic.

If you go back to wow where i was playing a rogue. I could go from my starting point up to your starting point without you ever seeing me. You couldnt possibly know that there was a rogue around. While you were alone i was popping with massive crit, gutting you up and capping the point alone. If you were stronger then me, i would vanish + cloak to cleanse dot and walk away. Same goes for Rift, same goes for Star Wars: Tor, same goes for warhammer online.

Gw2 is one of the only mmo where the rogue cannot be perma stealthed or at least have a really low duration stealth like 3-4 sec.

Its like that in every games. Rogue = Great dps, Great mobility and disconnect, can stealth but are squishy.

I think the thief now in GW2 is close to being balance.

And no i am not playing my thief anymore since a while back that i started duo-ing with my wife since i find that thief doesnt bring much to a group in pve. I switch to my guardian but i still do encounter alot of thieves. Did i get kill? yes! Was i mad and called him a cheater? Yes.. well in my head. But fighting more and more rogue, mostly if you got a friend rogue that want to duel with you. Learn the class, learn their abilities and you will soon see that they aint unbeatable and even if they get a great opening on you, that you are seriously hurt, you can still turn it around.

But of course as a guardian i rarely get the pleasure of planting my banner in thief stomach, when they are wounded they disconnect pretty well and i cant catch them

Henrik.7560:

Hmm, thieves are overpowered in different ways:

1. Stealth finisher, what’s the point of having downed skills if you can’t use them?
2. Heartseeker, the damage on this is so overpowered, as of it can be used up to 5 times when at full initiative. How to kill someone as a Heartseeker spammer: 3k, 3k, 3k, 5k, 8k, -dead- if they are bunker, they will be less than 30% health.
3. Cloak and Dagger, let’s see; up to 7k damage, stacks vulnerability, AND stealths you! wtf?

Betting 1 million bucks a thief player will quote me and say something similar to: L2P

Im a guardian player although i have a thief and a ranger too on the shelf.

1. Im not against that because there is “some” way to defend against it to a certain extend. Like the guardian push , ranger wolf fear, mist form and move away , spawn clone and heal somewhere else. Im not saying it is efficient but the stealth is not a death sentence everytime although i can find it annoying.

1. a heartseeker spammer is easily spotted and can be avoided. Most of the HS spammer are usually glass canon so they spam and try to disconnect after when out of ini. Again there is several way to counter it, i dont think its the deadliest weapon of the thief. Dodge roll, Dodge roll , aegis , staff 5 or hammer 5. Lightning reflex , fear from wolf, sword 2 to disconnect then kite with shortbow etc. Certain thieves do spam HS but i think its a dumb tactic that only get kills on lowbie that dont know how to react to it.

1. This is still a crit from a full glass canon thief which mean he pact a deadly punch but he is frail to attack. I know its hard to survive that burst but he still need to get through you for the backstab part, its where you dodge roll back. I got killed plenty of time by that combo, still do sometime to good thief players. It hit really hard but at the same time, they made the gear choice, leaving most of the defensive attribute out. That mean that if you can catch him, hell go down fast (well .. if you can catch him).

Im not saying im an expert thief killer but i just mean that thief aint that OP right now. Lemme finish!! I know you want to go keyboard warrior on me for that statement.

I think thieves right now are mostly balanced. I cant picture a thief that would do medium damage, the thief in my head need to be fragile but deadly, move in and out, assassin style.

The thing that i would change for the thief before calling them mostly balance is buffing main hand pistol and correction the shortbow #1 issue just like scepter #1 for guardian , you cant hit a kitten thing with it.

Some people still go in WvW with mostly offensive abilities, with offensive gears but offense only get you so far, until a sneaky thief gut you open before you get time to react.

As for your bet, this is an easy win of course. Its like if you say something mean to someone and say “I bet 1 million this person will be angry at me!”. For your thief fact, its a bit of a l2 kitten ue.

Lightsbane.9012:

xandermander.4810:

Every class is op in some way so plz stop complaining about a class that you cant kill just because you havent got enough skill.

is Engineer OP in any way? :-\

I wouldnt say they are OP but they are both good in PVP and PVE.

ghost.3208:

draner.5213:

Gaurdians ha! My necro laughs at them! Boon your self, yes do it! Those will be your own end! (spinal shivers and corrupt boon for the win)

Finally another fellow necro that understands why we can render useless some builds on the other classes

All those bunker builds or guardians using “Save yourselves!”, watch how my lovely corrupt boon destroys those buffs ^^ (yet I’m a main guardian user, but I see that shout being used way too commonly on PvP).

Thats mostly the only thing going for necro really. Was looking to play one but at the same time idont want to deal with conditions in pve dungeons right now.

Even there with spinal shivers and corrupt boon, its not that bad for the guardian, i can still kill necro that do that. I mean with purity and my signet its already 2 conditions gone every 10 sec. Then i run the three shouts with pure voice.

But i know what you mean, you guys are painful XD. I just wish necro would get a buff in pvp for power builds and be more efficient in different builds, i love the theme of your class but except being a B-tch to kill (with a boon/knight guardian), i dont picture you guys really strong in pvp nor in pve.

I might be wrong though, my only necro got to 22, had some hard time starting him to go over lvl 10 alone with no gear bought. Most of the necro i come accross as my thief, ranger of guardian are mostly a free (but long) kill.

Aratoa.7398:

Guardians are so overpowered! I can’t believe that this class has gone unnerfed for so long! Multiple heals, insane damage absorption through multiple blocks and condition removal for days, a Guardian can grind out the win against multiple opponents with ease, not to mention their ability to help the group. When they down an opponent, bam, stability stomp (sooooooo OP), an ability that renders my downed skills useless. This class can literally solo any other class if you play it correctly and quite frankly I think it needs a nerf badly.
Now, I know people are going to come in here and make fun of me for it, but I’ve got an 80 Guardian too so my opinion is just as correct as theirs (maybe even more correct since mine is negative) and anyone actually defending the Guardian? Just OP Guardians wanting to stay OP, which makes sense, I suppose if I mainly played the most OP class in the game I’d want it to stay that way too.

You play the class that was at the top of the food chain for a long time. The best disconnect in the game, you can get away when fight isnt in your favor like no other classes, if you die its because you didnt play right.

You had one of the class with the mug combo that could litteraly one shot people (one shot from the full combo i mean).

So what about a bunker ele? dont they give you trouble too then? They can cleanse themselves, heal themselves, mist away in invul etc.?

Guardians are like all the other classes. If you want super condition removal, tons of boons and such, you lose your burst and top damage, you need to kill your oponent with a steady ok damage. If you die to that kind of guardian its because you dont know how to play your thief. I dont mean that the guardian couldnt win, i just mean he cant chase you and burst you.

I got 3 – 80. A thief, a guardian and a ranger and personnaly, i find the guardian the most balanced. I always felt my thief was OP in WvW, my guardian was doing good and my ranger was doing ok depending on the situation.

I just think you need to look pass your mug nerf which wasnt that much of a nerf in my opinion, i love the new mug. For me only the shortbow got screwed but was using it only for an escape tool.

If you want to kill a guardian, switch to sword/dagger, grab his stability and laugh.

Well that depend, you just have to be more careful, which make melee funner

Run some boon duration rune , run consecration stability and shout and you wont have that much problem.

Remove magic find while in dungeon. Simple simple fix.

Like that players wont wear a full set in dungeon because they wont gain anything from it. Outside they can wear it where it doesnt matter and they can wear it in pvp if they feel like.

For me someone who wear magic find instead of dungeon gears which offer more survivability is not ok. Im sure if people got the word around and now everybody would run magic find instead, they would see the difference and stop using it. Of course if you are a really great player, know all the fights and dodge most of the stuff, being in magic find wont make that much of a difference because you are losing mostly toughness and vitality out of it.

But the thing is, just like any other set of armor, there is good and bad players. But a bad players in a regular set is less a dead weight then a bad player in a magic find set because he/she will have more vit/tough so if he make a mistake he is less inclined to go down faster then the one missing over 500+ of one of those stats.

I get the “You dont owe me anything so i wear what i want” but at the same time, i dont owe you anything either. I wanna do this dungeon to get the set of armor i like but i am forced to take 3-4 other players to make it through. I geared myself accordingly to support my team and make the experience the smoothest possible so that people dont have to rez me often and that i try to keep other alive as long as possible so dungeons go fast.

So if you get downed often because you lack toughness and vitality to get more loot of the dungeon, it is unfair for me and you are making me lose my time because of this. You get more loot then me while being less useful, i think this is the wrong way to do things. Its not that much the players fault since Arena net put the gear there for players to use and the idea of getting more gear is quite appealing.

So where do we draw the line?

I dont want you in my team because i think you will slow me down by having more chance of getting knock down / die. Why do you make me waste time so you can get more loot then me? Its unfair, ill switch to magic find too and well have some wipes together! will be fun.

Im really curious how a full team of medium players that barely know the dungeon would perform in all magic find gear with magic find consumables.

Einlanzer.1627:

Dark Dark Dark Dark.

In all seriousness though, I think a Mage Knight of some sort would be the best option for a 3rd soldier class.

Didnt you know that Dark make everything better?

So here is a regular wombat : http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zGGzuhqvjnk/UCSvjT92W9I/AAAAAAAAOJA/wlZmrEajrMs/s1600/Wombat2.JPG

Now imagine it dark! Would be much more cooler and scarier

Perhaps we could have like a Dark monk , a Dark magus , a Dark spiritmaster , a Dark Demonologist (because being a demonologist is not dark enough!). We could even have a Dark Dark Knight of chaos!

I dont know, we should have something dark i guess

PearlGore.7419:

Yet to see an MMO do this, a Race change would be nice though.

I agree for a race change

I dont agree for a class change

From the test i have done, im running a support build that i thought i made until i saw that someone made an even better one “altruistic healing”. I was playing sword and shield / hammer and i just changed for the mace. Im wearing all knight gear with emerald orb and knight jewelry.

For me the mace is better and here is why. The sword in my build is just a bit faster to get a kill, like 1-2 seconds compared to the mace BUT im losing alot by having the sword.

1- The mace last auto attack chain heal everyone around me for 500 hp without healing gear which is quite better.

2- The last chain of the sword “sword wave” miss quite often in aoe. What i mean by that is if i get 3 people in front of me in an arc (which happen often) first and second chain hit everything but the third hit only damage the one i was attacking so im losing a bit of aoe there.

3- Sword teleport is nice but not really a damaging ability and blind doesnt work on bosses

4- The range attack (3) on the sword is nice and cool looking but the blocking arrow part can be tricky in dungeon because of the short range. So if i wanna block a projectile with it, i often need to do it without touching the enemy, like in the emptyness just to get the block. The blocking part became more or less useful, using the attack mostly for damage purpose and since its attack so fast, i barely get 2 stack of empowering might even if they all crit because of the 1 second internal cooldown. I thought at first it would net me alot of healing and might stack but i was wrong.

5- The 3 buttons of the mace are aoe. The full chain can hit everyone, the second is a circle on the ground and the third one when you block you spin around for heavy damage.

6-The ground target is a nice aoe + it give regen to allies which then trigger Altruistic healing. So i get my 150 (i think) regen tick + 76 from AH on me + 76 for each ally standing in the circle. So its great healing although a long cast time.

7- third is guaranteed block from whatever is happening, just like an aegis. If the block is not consumed, it give protection to everyone around me ( 76 *5 if everyone receive it as healing from AH). If i block it i then spin for 1,5k-2k (on a crit and with near 45% without fury, this happen alot).

So yeah on a level 80 enemy, using only 1 to 3 abilities on both weapon + F1 to burn and get might, over 10 battles each weapons (to make sure no lucky crits), the sword pull ahead with 1-2 seconds faster kill with my build BUT for all the mace bring, all the healing, regen , automatic block, i prefer being a tad slower on the kill ( IN PVE) but having way more survivability.

Of course i dont think no one in a burst build would use the mace. Its a support weapon. Thats why when i want to kill something faster, i use the Hammer instead which is 5-6 seconds faster.

AntiGw.9367:

stof.9341:

AntiGw.9367:

The game is balanced for blue/green gear. Any stats above that are a bonus.

No part of the game is balanced around everyone wearing full exotics and ascended gear. People can equip any bonus they want, and it doesn’t make them selfish. THEY ARE NOT SELFISH.

Once upon a time, a MF player was walking down a path and reached a fork. On the left, there was a sign written : “Berzerker gear : your party will kill stuff fast”. On the right it was written : “Explorer gear : your party will will kill stuff slower but you’ll get twice as much loot”. And the MF guy took the right path because he doesn’t care about the other players in his party but he gets more loot so that’s all that matters for him.

The MF guy took the right path because he knows that the party kills stuff fast enough already, and he doesn’t feel insecure about his own performance.

Please then, make a test for us all to prove us. Take a full party of people in green magic find gear and roll through a dungeon.

You know for like 10 silver i would get a full set of armor, jewelry and weapons (green quality) of lvl 80 for magic find. Why dont i wear it and get extra loot? Because im losing a vital stats that make me better, that help my group.

People already hate to roll with new people in explorable, i had all the hard time in the world making my place. These stats for me are not extra.

I would love a link too where the devs says the dungeons are balanced for blues and greens. I dont really believe that assesment but i would gladly love to be proven wrong.

Its true that you dont owe others anything but same as the other dont owe you anything. If i could say that “this” guy wear magic find, im sorry but i would never invite it.

If regular gear doesnt make a difference since all can be done in blues, why is it that nobody wear that magic find armor? I asked around today, nobody got a set because nobody want to lose their good stats for this and impair the group by selfishness.

You know, i would love an answer to that because if stats doesnt make that much difference, like losing lets say 11 possible slots of a stats which can had up to 500+ of a single stats. (lets say 11 pieces at 50 toughness to replace with magic find for the exemple).

I do see the difference when i take a talent that convert 5% of my toughness in precision which equal perhaps to 90-100. Losing 500 toughness to replace it with magic find, i think it will make a difference on how squishy ill be.

But please, make the test, prove that it doesnt matter for me to wear my regular set over my magic find, like that everyone will ditch it and well be able to run 5 people in a dungeon in full MF

The party kill fast enough because they make a build, select skills and gear up accordingly to make it easier. You bringing your MF gear is going backward , so you are getting carried. Better exemple if you were played the game. Bringing someone with magic find its like in World of warcraft back in cataclysm or other expension before where you were 4 good people in the party and the last one was a full pvp geared player. Thats the same thing

Devils.3679:

Hey so do others agree that they should add an option for people who play Guardians to not show the Aegis effect. It just always having it over my shield is so ugly.

i agree 100% with this.

I dont need to see it, i look at my oponent buff anyway. Or at least give it another way to show. When i wield my greatsword it look bad

to clarify what someone told me in another post

Toughness = against armor attack
Vitality = against conditions

Since the guardian can cleanse alot of them, i wouldnt worry too much about vitality but that depend on you.

i would prefer player housing instead of guild halls. In other games where guild halls were there,i never used it, i dont see the point of it

Veldan.4637:

I found that armor/HP downscales too much but dmg not enough. In low lvl zones I kill much faster than in high level zones, to the point that I can oneshot things constantly with at least 4 different skills, but the mobs also kill me faster than high level ones do.

You have to take into consideration gears vs content too.

You are working with pieces that have 3 stats where as at this level gear have 1 stat. So your stats get reduced, yes , but you still have gear that give you power, precision , toughness (for exemple). The level 16 will have only some power on his gear.

Second you have more traits then the lvl 16. Meaning you get more benefit from it, stat wise and effect wise. For i lose conditions easy, i can dodge roll and heal , i can shout more often, meaning the content is much more easier.

Third, you have acces to more utilities. At this level you have 1 or 2 utility slot and not all of them are unlocked yet and often , you were still learning your class, you did mistakes. Like when i was on my ranger i was doing Sic’em + jaguar stealth which broke my sic’em without me knowing. Again there costing me time.

Fourth , you have upgrades and consumables. At level 14, my pistols were unsocketed, my armor dont have runes in it nor upgrades. I got some trash food for the +xp buff that i paid like 5 coppers a piece. I dont have maintenance oil on, i dont have the best food and i dont have exotic ruby in my armors and jewelry, i think you dont even have an amulet before 20 and a backpiece until 30?.

Put a level 40 or around, in full yellow of his level ,with seals and food and you wont see a difference at this point ,because his gear is on par with the content.

Where does Arena net draw the line? They should put fixed stats but at the same time, youll still run food and stuff, should you be more nerfed to the point where your food doenst give you any boost anymore?

Einlanzer.1627:

Tony.6028:

Pandemoniac.4739:

I can quantify how much averaging MF across the group impacts me. You have nothing other than your perception that me having MF on my gear impacts my performance at all. You don’t know my build or my play style and I’m fairly confident I could change my MF significantly mid dungeon and you would never notice.

This kind of says it all. There’s been no data to show that MF has an appreciable impact on gameplay. That is to say, the effect is so minimal that it may as well not be considered.

Imagine what you would need to prove otherwise. You’d need a representative sample of all players, and hundreds iterations of dungeons or events with and without a single player’s magic find (and the others are a control). You’d need to look at the p-values to see what’s the likelihood that you may have received these results by chance alone. And to quantify what? Time of completion? Sales revenue from posting rare drops on the TP? Overall player satisfaction?

Magic find has no place in a PUG berserker CoF farming run, where an extra 6 seconds tick people off. But everywhere else, it really doesn’t matter. The players, and their cooperation and skill is what matters. Different players can deliver different results with different sets, and to judge them only on numbers is very narrow-minded.

I’m no elitist, and I would agree with this 100% from a player perspective. However, it really isn’t about the numbers or the potential impact, it’s more about the MF attribute as a concept.

Regardless of how much of a real impact having or not has in a group, it still has the sole distinction of being the only stat which benefits only you at the expense of benefiting a group. This is a game design flaw at the conceptual level that needs to be addressed in some way.

i agree with this. Like you said “its not about the numbers or the potential impact” but about one get to have more loot while the other “do more work” as a concept.

Im sure the impact would be quite bigger if the full group doing dungeon had all magic find. Of course if only one of the five players has magic find it wont really be apparent but i think if everyone had it, it would make for a much weaker group.

If stats werent making that much of an impact, why is not everyone wearing magic find gear as of right now?

Oh wow, thanks for all the sweet answers, i really didnt see it that way and it make much more sense now.

Since i play a guardian conditions arent a big deal for me and its perhaps why i didnt notice much.

Thanks for sharing with me, learned alot!

Why is it bad in group play?
This is the real issue with Magic Find and a sole reason it should not be in the game…
The person using Magic Find gear contributes the least, but get’s the best reward.
Why does this make sense? A huge design flaw.
You are giving up offensive potential and wasting time. You are not only wasting your time, you are also wasting your groups. Wasting other players’ time is selfish & rude.

I do agree on that. I hate magic find in every games i play since in my head, im trying to get the best gear but to get it i need to downgrade myself to use a stat that often feel mandatory. Magic find should be a bonus, not a must.

Like he said, if someone in his group is running magic find then he is lacking one of the main stats which then make him less effective. Which would be fine if other would benefit from it but no, the player is less efficient to get more reward for himself. So it kinda give the picture of a ball and chain. You need to carry that person through the dungeon and what do you get for it? nothing, he get more loot then you do (basic concept of magic find, i dont argue about the numbers and such)

If the team would get benefit from it, i wouldnt be against. But why work harder so that someone can be selfish?

I was not talking about the numbers but mostly about the global concept of magic find and why i think its a bad concept.

Elbegast.6970:

Lil Green Dragn.8049:

Elbegast.6970:

HotHit.6783:

Elbegast.6970:

An hour for a measly 100g? Doesn’t seem worth it….unless there’s something I’m missing.

I suppose you have a faster way to make gold? ‘Cause I’d say this is a really good way to spend your karma.

Yeah, I have a faster way….go out and kill stuff. I got more gold and karma than I know what to do with. Gold is useless. Karma is useless. Only thing worth anything is Laurels and it’s just a headache farming those.

You are trolling right? There’s no way you can get more than (or close to) 100g for an hour of killing mobs.

Do you even craft? If you aren’t making 100g+/hour, you aren’t trying. I’m baffled by people who seem to be perpetually broke in a game that hands out copper and loot with every other kill.

Please message me and tell me your trick and how to make gold. I make around 2g after a dungeon run, i pve most of my day, sell my yellows and i dont even make 10g per night.

What is your opinion on that stat?

I think it is a bad stat in guild wars 2 so far. Of course you want enough to not get one shotted but most people often just go for more toughness instead. Because even if you have 40k hp (exemple), if you dont have toughness, this hp will drop extremely fast and you arent able to fill it up.

Perhaps some healing should be health base? Then the +healing stat would raise that cap. Lets say regen tick for 1% of your life per tick then if you get +healing it could go like 1.10% , 1.20% etc.

I didnt do the numbers so dont judge on that but think about the idea behind. Right now those that use vitality are often those that goes in full condi damage and thoughness to play condi bunker.

Thats just an idea because i find that vitality is not often desired compared to what toughness bring. What do you guys think? am i not seeing it the right way?