Guild Wars 2

In wvw aoe and cc factor into survivability a lot, and those two are inherently stronger in condition builds because you’ll have alot of +condition duration, which means longer chills, fears, weakness etc.

Since you allready have full carrion, take a look at my build:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Build-Staff-Corruption/
I started out with full carrion as well but then gradually shifted to soldier’s (and Matriarch’s Quill and Plague Idol) with the ascended trinkets, which makes the build even more aggressive and tougher at the same time.

nuff said, indeed ^^
We even had a guest appearance by Bas!
Sadly my recodring program crashed before the first match, so my verion will only have round 2-5.
But yski will probably do an epic montage with all povs again

Yes, we’re still on for today at 7pm!

I had to look it up: with 8,5k achievement points, Ascii is currently rank 10 on NA!

And the other wvw stats on the right side… wow xD

I think I speak for everyone here when I say: sorry bro, only top 3 make the cut :P

My recording from yesterday is on rapidshare now.

@Flumek, I think you’re absolutely right.
Yesterday was a bit chaotic though, we were only 4 on mumble in the second match and I had to mute my mic half the time. But yeah, good coordination is half the battle.

Oh wow, was is really that bad? I couldn’t watch it live (fell asleep :P), but when I first saw the match-up list I thought: warrior vs necro… free win xD (apparently not)

Sooo… I have mixed feelings about the episode today ^^

5x Lich Form, that was cool. Also, since the attendance at first was rather lacking, we now have 2 new BoC members.
One of them even recognized us from the other all-necro tourneys

On the downside: just 2 matches this time, and I don’t want to spoil anything but they weren’t really the most suspenseful games because the outcomes were so onesided.
Also I couldn’t talk half the time and there are some longer periods were we just stand around looking for another player… so my recording is rather boring, I think.
Yski will do an edited version though, I don’t know how his turned out but maybe we won’t show the entire match this time but just some highlights…?

@Bas: I’ll upload my rec to rapidshare, not for direct upload to youtube though but rather for yski if he wants to incorporate it into his edited version.

Update:
Yski is down for today and tomorrow as well.
So we’ll just do both. Maybe a random-build tournament today and then another MM tomorrow.

Okay. All others who signed up:

Do you want to do this tomorrow or just reschedule to friday so nemesis can join?
Or both?

I’m free on friday as well, so I’m fine either way.

Looks really good.
The only thing that comes to mind: Unless you want the extra swiftness I’d go with Mad King runes instead of Centaur. Or rune of the Ogre, Strength or Pack.
Rune of Lyssa is also a good Flesh Golem combo.

Well… again the award for most inefficient zerg goes to those tarnished coast guys.

If I was in this group as a necro:
My dps would have been higher than the ele’s. But my positioning would have to be very different. When the portal pops up behind him he chills right next to it for a couple secs before he ports away. This would have killed a necro probably.
So.. I bet the weakest link in this party was the warrior. Replace him with a debuffing necro and you can pick a lot more people out of the crowd.

Umm… so this was the first post:

helmino.4138:

Hey guys, as the title of topic, i want some suggestion with the gear/spec for solo roam in wvw. I know that for roam necro is not the best class, so avoid statement about that, thanks all in advance.
I think i want to try some sort of hybrid build, so some suggestion are welcome.

and then you post a terror build and add this:

This set up is meant to play with a team, not solo, and if you’re soloing as a necro in WvW you’re dead

Also… it’s just not true. Solo roaming is very doable as a necro, if you think you are easy prey for more than one opponent then that is clearly not the right build for it.

CHIPS.6018:

As a necro please stay with your local friendly zerg and do not roam in hostile lands. Even Nemesis agrees. ^^

Boooooring :/

helmino.4138:

So you have no problem to solo roam in rabid? how is facing more than one enemy in that way?

The problem with many opponents is that you’ll have to fight to the death every time. There is no stealth or Ride the Lightning for you, so you’ll literally have to fight all of your opponents at the same time instead of picking them off one by one.
The choice of armor doesn’t improve your chances here, except maybe get some vitality in there as well. More opponents usually means more conditions on you, and with that pure rabid doesn’t help.

Condition mancers go full rabid + undead runes to max their condition damage and bleed stacks with Barbed Precision and Sigil of Earth.
But imo it’s definitely not the strongest a necromancer can be. The lack in power is very noticable.
You could go full rampager’s instead if you really want to crank up your damage, but you’ll only be able to do so much with this glassy gear.

I run a staff-condition-build that inherently makes less use of precision than any scepter build would. Therefore my gear is a mix of carrion and soldiers = high damage and tanky.

I havn’t commented on any of the ds5 threads yet because (you said it yourself) it’s really hard to think of a new condition when the ones that are allready there cover every possible dot or cc. And most people just came up with another damge type of condition (like agony… now available for players) which is just boring and/or unnecessary.

So, I totally agree that the new condition (should there really be one) would have to be a non-damaging one.
Tbh I thought about your idea myself, and I’m sure lots of others have before as well. But: I’m not sure it is as simple to implement as you make it sound.
Because:
You call your condition madness, but what it does are very different things in pve and pvp. So really you proposed two different conditions.

1. The mindcontrol of npcs:
This idea is good. It would work similar to a reflect skill of guardians or mesmers, but the damage gets “reflected” to other npcs.

2. The hallucination:
This I have a problem with. Because it comes down to the extent of the graphic distortion. Black screen: definitely overpowered. Just some weird wiggling or blur… maybe too weak to make a difference. Also, I’m sure that people who play competitively would just reduce their graphics to “best performance” and gone are all fancy misperception effects.
Also: there are a lot of skills on every class that work untargeted. If you just stick with them you’ll be fine. Like: necros go into death shroud and start life leeching. So during that time this misperception-condition would be useless.

So… what I would do is: take the pve madness and apply it to pvp as well. You said this wouldn’t work, but it does:
If you have this condition on you, then the next attack gets misdirected at an ally. done.

However, even then I’m not sure if it is that easy to implement.
Also, the whole thing (especially with the graphic glitching) sounds more like a new mesmer skill to me…

Alright people, you know the drill. Same time, same place!

Thursday, 7pm CEST.

Btw I did a quick research on the time zones: In Europe we have the CET (=UTC+1) and CEST (Central European Summer Time) which is UTC+2.
So… no more confusions I hope.

Sign up below!

Also: vote on whether we should have another MM battle or try something else this time… or both.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

flow – if you’re condition damage, then sceptre 2 followed by dagger 5 will apply more conditions than staff.

Nope.
Grasping Dead: 1 bleed stack for 7 seconds (cd: 10sec)
Enfeebling Blood: 2 stacks for 10 sec (cd: 25sec)
vs.
Staff: Mark of Blood: 3 stacks for 8 seconds (cd: 6 sec)

That one mark inflicts more aoe bleeding than the other 2 skills combined.
If you have the staff mastery trait and +80% bleeding duration you can have 9 stacks of bleeding on 5 targets permanently… with just 1 skill.
Add all the other marks and scepter2/dagger5 just pale in comparison.

Actually the best aoe weapon (even in lower lvls) is the staff.

And yeah race does matter. I didn’t pick charr for it’s racial skills at first but now I’m glad that I did because I use those skills sometimes.

Wow O_o
The weapons and cooldown changes alone would turn me into an undefeatable beast.
Add the trait changes and you can wipe out a 20-man-zerg by yourself xD

Btw Corrupt Boon (I think epidemic too) can be cast if you’re facing away from your opponent.

lol I was just thrown off my guard with this build. Usually I’m a death shroud baws :P

In hindsight, I probably should also have all my minions on the field all the time and not just half of them xD

Btw the minions siphon health like crazy. 2 or 3 times my death breakdown had a total of over 50k damage taken. One had 27k bleeding (142 hits) and another had 28k burning (42 hits)

That is indeed pretty annoying. You can interrupt it with any other skill tough (not just fear) and then retarget.

If the sole purpose of adopting a build is to lvl up more easily, but really you want to play a different style, then you could also just complete a few crafting professions and be done with getting to lvl80 in less than one hour (if you have the resources for it).

Well… the change shouldn’t be that drastic, you must have had bad luck on top of that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Carrion-or-rabid-for-survivability/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Carrion-or-Rabid-gear-for-Conditionbuild/

Imo, if you’re faced with the choice to either go full carrion or rabid, then only go with rabid if you need the precision.
But once you have the laurels to spend on ascended gear you could mix it up with soldiers or these kind of trinkets
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_the_Deceiver

In the video you have Greater Marks instead of Shroud Removal (that’s what the build says)
And nicely played, of course

To your SOAC rapidshare account. It’s already there in the BoC folder.
Yski did a recording as usual. Nemesis and Vash did so too… but I didn’t give them any info on where to upload it, assuming they want to share it with you at all :P

Hoooooly shiiiiiat!! Someone is using my build xD
That is epic man! *fistbump *
I wasn’t sure if anyone even tried it since noone left any comments. ^^

I might even upload a video soon with some interesting wvw action, some duels against top players from other servers ’n stuff…

Anyway.. I just wanted to say:
With my build you don’t need that much precision because the staff doesn’t hit as often. So carrion makes much more sense anyway. However, I have been mixing it up with some soldier trinkets since the ascended stuff came out. And now instead of earrings I chose those new ascended unnamed/rabid accessories.
But before that pure carrion worked just as fine, I also mention that in my build discription.

4 min to go on my upload.
and yeah, the whole episode is one epic MM-special

yup, that was pretty awesome ^^

Yeah, sorry about that, I noticed my mistake too late. But as you can see the pure carrion gives even more health (+7k). I wouldn’t call this an obvious win for rabid, seeing how your life force pool gets a lot bigger too. Plus: conditions don’t hurt as much, even if necros are good at cleansing them.

Ooops… sorry, this would be the correct link:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|6.1h.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719|1h.62.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62|0.u000.k00.k00.0|0.0|0.0.0.0.4g|e

So it’s
Armor 2086
Health 27352
Effective Health (EHP) 31076
Damage Reduction 11.98%
for carrion.

Well, the EHP is now about the same as rabid. Imo pure carrion is still the better option for survivability.
But bottom line: save your laurels for those new cond-dmg/toughness/vit/precision trinkets that I selected in the “fake” carrion link xD

Panhauramix.2784:

Vitality will not help one bit to reduce the burst some classes can bring to you.

Ok, check this out:

The exact same build (0-30-20-20-0) with runes of the undead. All I changed are the stats on the weapon, armor and trikets.

Carrion
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|6.1h.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719.1h.719|2x.0.2x.0.3x.0.2x.0.3x.0.1h.62|0.u000.k00.k00.0|0.0|0.0.0.0.4g|e

Rabid
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|6.1b.0|0.0.0.0.0.0|1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719|2w.0.2w.0.3w.0.2w.0.3w.0.2w.0|0.u000.k00.k00.0|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e

Carrion:
Armor 2427
Health 26712
Effective Health (EHP) 35310
Damage Reduction 24.35%

Rabid:
Armor 2814
Health 20372
Effective Health (EHP) 31224
Damage Reduction 34.75%

So yeah… if I want to survive longer I’ll take the extra ~6,3k hp (or +31% health) instead of a 10% direct damage reduction. And let’s not forget that death shroud scales with vitality.
As I said, the only advantage that rabid has over carrion is a higher crit chance.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Carrion-or-rabid-for-survivability/

Clearly rabid is the more aggressive option if you are using it with the sigil of earth.
Survivability especially in wvw is better with carrion. You’ll have lots of conditions on you when you’re fighting other players and toughness doesn’t help you at all with that.

Buuuuump
Reminder: it’s going down tonight!

Any more signups?
The BoC army wants you! Yes, you… sign up, do it now!
If we get more than 5 players we’ll just fill up a second necro team.

darkace.8925:

And while I’m asking for tips from the pros, I’d really like to run CPC. But I’m already planning BiP and Epidemic. That leaves just the one slot, and I’m thinking it will probably go to a signet. What do you guys think of CPC, particularly in the open-world PvE context?

CPC is really good if you use it with putrid mark (blast finisher→poison field and condition transfer). Without the staff I’d only take it with the master of corruption trait (which would make sense with epidemic and BiP). Without that I’d probably use a well, definitely no signet… maybe signet of the locust out of combat but that’s it.

Vaffelman.6954:

The build you are going is NOT a conditionmancer build, it’s a hybrid build.

The weapons you should use as a hybrid is 1 Scepter/Dagger 2 Axe/Focus Utility Blood is power, signet of spite and [Insert whatever you would prefer like Epidemic]
And for the gear according to your trait is Power/Precision/Condi Damage

Now to be a Conditionmancer the only thing you need at traits is 30 points at curses and the rest is up to you!
Gear Precision/toughness/condition damage
Runes
2xSuperior afflicted
2xSuperior krait
2xsuperior (dont remember)
and the 2 weapon can be a staff

Superior rune of the centaur?

Just to make it clear: the hybrid build you are talking about is a conditionmancer, even by your own definition (30 in curses). Epidemic is not up to preference with this build, you have to use it. Signet of spite on the other hand…? I believe Nemesis uses well of suffering instead.

IronPlushy.4256:

what I have found, now that I’m managing my condition necro much better, is you can’t be condition 100% of the time, you have to adapt to a situation you know condition wont work.
I was fighting, I think theyre called scralebacks or something, and they regenerate health, so I couldn’t even kill them with my condition build, but by switching to dagger/focus, using pain inversion, was just mowing through them. Sometimes you need to do a lot of damage fast. And arguably I shouldn’t be using the weaker build when dagger focus is so much faster, but I feel that if I stick to condition build I’ll be that much better with it when it allegedly becomes viable. I feel it’s safer but with two cripple skills I tend to retain a bit more hp.

Against those scalebacks (or whatever) you could also use Chilblains to poison them, which reduces their regen. Or pull them all to you and then use well of corruption.

I use a condition build with staff – axe/warhorn. Someone else recently posted that he uses the scepter in a power build.
So don’t worry about fitting the “traditional” role of a conditionmancer, if there ever was one.

You don’t have to stand on your putrid mark to be cleansed. Just your minions or allys.

I don’t think people will have to completely reinvent their builds for this.
A quick utility adjustment depending on what class/build you’re facing, like switching out epidemic sometimes… and done.

Oh I wasn’t necessarily talking about a terror build. If you can stack a lot of conditions on a target, interrupt heals and deal good direct damage at the same time then terror is just the cherry on top.
But yeah… not just impossible at lower lvls, but also if you don’t have the right gear for it.

Palmski.6419:

Thor Rising.7850:

Highest I’ve ticked at is around 155, usually in the 120-130 range though. I need to get a sigil of corruption though.

Don’t forget that vulnerability adds damage to your bleeds. 20ish stacks of vulnerability makes a huge difference in your condition damage.

Wait, what? I thought nothing affected condition damage ticks other than the condition damage stat itself and Vuln/%damage increases from traits/runes/sigils affected direct damage only.

Yeah, vulnerability only affects direct damage.

Nyghtshadow.4206:

The main problem is that condi necros have only DOTs, no burst whatsoever so fights are always long.

Maybe not as quick as a thief haste backstab burst… but it’s definitely doable with some condition builds.

Oh… I thought GMT+X was a geographic region that doesn’t shift west during DST.
I wanted to use the non-DST GMT+1 because that’s like 2/3 of Europe.
So just to make it clear, I live in central Europe which is GMT+1 during the winter and apparently +2 now. So 7pm for me, 8pm for Finland.

Do people even say GMT anymore or is it all UTC now? xD

@tournament: I’ll try to pm Rhion in game, I don’t think he reads this forum.

Jimorie.5293:

Using the gw2buildcraft.com calculator, the highest I could get was 3030 Condition Damage, which would give 194 damage per bleed tick.

Here is the link:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|b.1b.0.8.1b.h5|0.0.0.0.0.0|1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719.1b.719|2w.d12.2w.d12.2x.d12.2w.d12.2x.d12.2w.d12|0.u000.0.0.0|2s.d|0.0.0.0.0|e

Note that the link does not include the 25 stacks of Might and the 25 stacks of Minor Corruption, so the number there is not the maximum.

Ummm… what?
The link only says 1905 condition damage.
Also… just read my calculation a few posts above, the absolute maximum is 195. There is no way that you can have 194 without the sigil and might.

Targuil.3741:

flow.6043:

snip

1 handed weapons gain 90+90=180, not 179 (i know, not making enough difference)

Also, did you count master tuning crystal? (not sure what nourishment you’re using). 6% toughness+4% vitality to condition damage. Also, did you count base toughness (916) for the rune bonus?

Other than that, it seems we are nearing our maximum.

Oh right, I somehow just added another 70 for the tunig crystal :/
Base toughness is already there.
So that would be 2254×0,06 = 135,24. Let’s say we go 10 points into bloodmagic so we get 1016 vitality. x0,04= 40,64.
So 175,88 and 1 extra for 2 weapons, that means that our total has to be incrased by 106,88 =3061,58 condition damaged

Still 88,42 short, but the maximum this way would be 195/tick

Ok. Let’s just calculate:
For a 200 dmg tick you need (200-42,5)x20=3150 condition damage.

We’ll have 25 stacks of might (875), sigil of corruption (250), 30 points in curses (300) and nourishment (140) =1565, so all that is left is gear: 1585.

At this point I’ll mention that we will need the runes of the undead and for them to be most effective we’ll also go 30 into death magic. The base condition damage on it is 183. I’ll add the 6th bonus later.
Btw to my knowledge Dark Armor still doesn’t work with deadly strength or runes of the undead. (This would increase a bleed tick by exactly 1 during a channeling skill)

That means we need to get 1402 condition damage through gear.

Major stat on armor is 315, 179 on weapons, 570 on ascended trinkets (+30 infusions)= 1094 condition dmg.

For the rune bonus:
Minor stats: 224 + 128 + 376 = 728 toughness +300 traitline.
We would also eat tropical mousse (100 toughness +70 condition damage).
And let’s assume that by some miracle we are able to get 25 stacks of might without blood is power (is that even possible?), and have 8 minions on the field at the same time (for protection of the horde): jagged horror, 2 bone minions, 2hounds of Balthazar instead of the golem (I’m assuming they count as minions too…?)
Protection of the horde works with the rune btw.
So an extra 160 toughness here.
The rune itself has 50 toughness.

That means the ideal case is: 916+728+300+100+160+50=2254 toughness. = an extra 112,7 condition damage.

Bottom line: 1094+112,7=1206,7. We would need 1402 for a 200-bleed-tick (Or: 1206,7+1565+183=2954,7 out of 3150), so we’re 195,3 short. That’s 9,765 per tick.

So unless I forgot something the absolute maximum a bleed tick could possibly get is 190.

Same time this week.
So thursday at 7pm @GMT+2.

EDIT: Didn’t account for DST, what I meant was 7pm in central Europe which apparently is GMT+2 now. Sorry for the confusion.

Please sign up in this thread if you want to join.
Maybe we’ll be able to fill two teams this time.

If Nemesis can make it we’ll do an all MM with him.

infantrydiv.1620:

In my opinion, the Necro trait lines should be swapped something like this:

Spite: Precision and Critical Damage
Curses: Condition Damage and Duration
-
-
Soul Reaping: Power and Life Force Pool

What this would do:

-Enable a full burst Death Shroud Necro (With Spite and Soul Reaping)

-Allow for a true ‘Conditionmancer’

Let’s say your full death shrowd power burst necro goes 30/10/-/-/30 with your new trait lines. The only difference now is that you have 200 more precision. Is this really all that is bothering you? That’s just 10% crit chance, you can easily make up for that with gear. Replacing the 20% condition duration on the other hand is much harder.

You also have to keep in mind that trait lines as they are support the necros utilities and traits a lot better than your proposal. Powermancers also apply all kinds of cc conditions… so having power paired with condition duration does of course make more sense for the necro than it would for a thief.

Also, I wasn’t aware that with the current traits you can’t build a “true conditionmancer”…?

IronPlushy.4256:

Are condition-centric necromancers viable. If so why? If not why not?

Haha you really must be new to the necromancer xD
Short answer: yes, very viable.

I’m going to quote Bas here because if he sees this thread he will post exactly this:

I will give you my three step process to learning about the Necromancer

1) CHIPSSS Encyclopedia of Necro skills

2) Nemesis Tutorials

3) SOACGaming Podcast - sittingonacouch.com for audio only

Each of these are fantastic ways to get immersed into the spirit of the Necromancer and what they bring to the table.

Gutbuster.8745:

2. Critting on 5 dummies the flame blast seemed to go off randomly on them, as in not the one closest to the middle but any.

That is not surprising. If the one closest to the center doesn’t trigger the blast then you move on to the next one and so on until the blast is triggered and the internal cooldown starts.

1. I guess this depends on the opposing zerg.
I would go with staff mastery though… applying regeneration and condition transfer more frequently seems better to me than 3,75 seconds of protection every 45 and 60 seconds.

Right before a battle you could switch out signet of the locust for spectral wall. This will give every ally who passes through protection, not just 5 people.

2. If you want more damage then definitely go for staff mastery instead of ritual of protection.