Well… as everyone here stated allready: If you use the staff you trait for greater marks (which also makes them unblockable). It’s just a standard thing to do.
As to the question, why it isn’t standard in the first place: balance. Freeing up a trait slot would be an incredible power boost. You could have greater marks and staff mastery (-20% cd) by only investing 10 points in death magic. So unless you are a minion master, it’s like giving you a total of 80 trait points instead of 70.
In my opinion the staff is allready the most powerful weapon of the necromancer (if traited), buffing it with an extra free 10 trait points would tip the scale in its favor even further.
One is irrelevant to the other. Once a mark is triggered, it also affects the downed player. So… when one player is reviving the other , I don’t care which one triggers the mark bacause the result is the same: reviver gets feared away, downed player only gets the direct damage from the mark. Therefore, if marks would trigger on downed players as well, the “anti-res mechanic” would still work exactly the same.
you got it wrong, this it not “anti-res mechanic”
by “anti-res mechanic” i mean (same as kevin.8623) drop marks on your downed enemy and wait for his friends, but for me this is the worst thing that you can do
Oooooh… now i get it. Well, I would never use reapers mark as a pre-amtive measure, just to make a downed player unapproachable. It’s not like I drop the mark and walk away… I’m still around to finish the job. I might as well wait for the other player to attempt a rivive before I mark spam both of them.
I’m sure you agree that it’s more effective and devastating for your opponant, to interrupt him while reviving someone instead of just making sure that he doesn’t even try to stop fighting you for a moment to attemp a revive.
You mean… cancel the revive in order to dodge away? How is this different from being interupted by fear?
so where’s the difference between “anti-res mechanic” and marks that trigger on downed players ?
One is irrelevant to the other. Once a mark is triggered, it also affects the downed player. So… when one player is reviving the other, I don’t care which one triggers the mark bacause the result is the same: reviver gets feared away, downed player only gets the direct damage from the mark. Therefore, if marks would trigger on downed players as well, the “anti-res mechanic” would still work exactly the same.
Nothing that needs to be triggered works on downed players. This includes marks, ranger traps, and thief traps. The only downed person who can trigger these are mesmers, thieves, and elementalist because they move during downed state and can therefore trigger it.
but normally you dont have to move to trigger it
pierwola is right, movement is irrelevant to marks being triggered. A player who is standing still will trigger a mark. And no… thiefes, mesmers, eles won’t trigger them in downed state if they teleport on top of one.
Is there any other class/weapon where against a downed opponent or dragon they can only use the autoattack skill???
No… but there is also no other class weapon that drops circles on the ground that people trigger when they walk over them.
Ranger traps.
Actually there is a very similar discussion in the ranger forum about it… because they also do not trigger on players in downed state.
It’s good as an anti-res mechanic to not have them trigger as has already been said.
dodge it and say bb to anti-res mechanic
You mean… cancel the revive in order to dodge away? How is this different from being interupted by fear?
As has been stated before: only “+condition duration” doesn’t work. grenth, svanir and ice increase frozen duration, so naturally they work…
I’ve tested both mad king and lyssa today… and nope, atm they don’t work, except for the +15% bleeding duration on (4) Mad King.Having both 2 Lyss and 2 Mad King, 20 into Spite on my Necro and then using the basic Cheese Pizza, i got 7 seconds on Dark path, so nope, they do work.
I also tried both runes (2 lyssa, 4 madK), but with blood is power. With an additional 10 in spite, i got 37 secs… not 43.
+ duration on at least some runes wasn’t working as of a few days ago still. The link:dev post was 11 days ago.
I know that Grenth, Svanir, Mad King, Ice and Lyssa work and did work, Givers weapons were bugged on release for a short amount of time, but they fixed it pretty fast.
As has been stated before: only “+condition duration” doesn’t work. grenth, svanir and ice increase frozen duration, so naturally they work…
I’ve tested both mad king and lyssa today… and nope, atm they don’t work, except for the +15% bleeding duration on (4) Mad King.
Also, if you use epidemic a lot, I like for those other non damaging conditions to get spread as long as possible, rather than just the bleeds hitting a little harder.
When epidemic is used, the remaining time of each condition is copied, the duration wont refresh and start from scratch with the individual condition duration of the necromancer.
However, condition damage applies to every condition, even to the ones inflicted by other players.
It’s good as an anti-res mechanic to not have them trigger as has already been said.
It’s far more annoying to not have them trigger on frickin DRAGONS.
Makes staff far less useful in fights where just maybe one does not want to be within a certain range.
Same as kevin… anti-res mechanic would still work.
But yes on the dragons… I think the name tag of a dragon is in yellow writing or something, like a gargoyle head or gate. So maybe the game treats them as inanimate objects.
Personally, I think its an outstanding mechanic to not trigger on downed players. Think about it like this -
It gives the necro incredible control in 2v2 scenarios where dropping a reapers mark on the downed player is the difference between the opponent ress-ing, turning a 2v1 back into a 2v2.
If triggered it would only fear the downed player.
Now compared to triggering on an attempted res, which has now been prevented – a shroud stomp finish seals the deal – it becomes the deciding factor in turning a 2v1 into a 2vNone.
Why would the mark only work on the downed player??
Like every other aoe skill in the game, marks too affect up to 5 targets.
Very good point, this always seemed strange to me as well. I get why inanimate objects like gates wouldn’t trigger them… but players who are lying on the ground don’t? It’s not like they are holding still, they still attack you in downed state. Or what if a player (thief, mesmer..) teleports on top of a mark, or an ele mist-floats onto it… wouldn’t it be logical that the mark triggers at that moment?
Also weird: downed state under water. When you place a mark at the edge of a shore, so half of it is under water. A swimming player will trigger it, when he touches it.
Now… a downed player is even still able to swim! I’ve actually never observed this rare scenario, but I’m assuming that in that case, the downed underwater player would still not trigger the mark.
+ duration on at least some runes wasn’t working as of a few days ago still. The link:dev post was 11 days ago.
huh… thanks, didn’t even notice. had a quick look around the forum and tested ingame:
only the “+condition duration” is affected, not “+bleeding duration”, i.e. rune of the mad king (which inceases both bleeding and all conditions) will only give you +15% bleeding atm.
btw @Ezeriel: when you move the cursor over the condition icon under the targets name, the remaining time shows up… so no need for stop watches.
Damage>>>>>>>duration
Does duration even work? Last time I checked, it didn’t even work if it came from gear… and just to show how unpopular condition necros are, no one even complained.
Anyway, nothing in this game lives very long, and if it does, then odds are it has condition removal. Event bosses live the longest, but have massive bleed removal, as in someone else is gonna knock off your bleeds after two ticks anyway.
Playing conditions is just like playing anything else. You want to do as much damage as possible, as fast as you can.
1. Increasing duration works. The only thing that doesn’t is the tool tip, which only works for the spite trait line, but other than that duration is increased correctly, always!
2. Bosses rarely remove anything, and if they do… then certainly not after just 2 seconds.
As to the not-so-long living mobs: Zul is using the scepter, the untraited/-prolonged bleeds on blood curs is 5 seconds, rending curse: 4sec.
So you are telling us that every non-boss you encounter dies in less than 5 seconds?! With a condition build??
3. “You want to do as much damage as possible, as fast as you can.”
… true! But since you DON’T kill everyone in less than 5 seconds, condition duration averages more dps over the duration of a fight.
this is the formula for bleed dmg:
0.05 * Condition Damage + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80
so… if you have 1600 cond dmg now, that means you bleed enemies at 122 per tick per second. losing 160 from the runes means -8 on the bleed-ticks, so 114. that’s a ~6,5% decrease.
on the other hand: prolonging duration from an extra 53% to 68% means that you extend bleeds by ~9,8%.
bottom line: yeah, it’s worth it IF (!!) your opponet doesn’t remove the stacks. so, pve: almost never, therefore definitely worth it. pvp: depends… blood is power probable rarely ticks out its entire 30-60 seconds. but shorter ones, maybe…
I’m surprised someone hasn’t caught this yet as an issue.
Because it’s not an issue!
If your characters intire strength depends on the survivability of your “mini helper” then perhaps you’ve just chosen an inefficient build.
And 90%?!? O_o. How would you even implement this in the game? It’s not like aoe skills target one enemy and then also hit the ones in close proximity. there are marks, meteor shower, barrage, whirling axes, granades… only to name a few, and all of those allready show in their animation that you take a hit with an axe or an arrow etc.. so why should that be weaker than a standard nr1 attack? by 90%???
Also: every class can do aoe, and a lot of it. Compared to that minion skills are a clear minority… but you are saying that in favor of them all aoe damage should be reduced.. by 90% -.- lol
people are using different runes allready. so if the first stat on one rune was 55… guess how many people would get an extra 330 power (or any other stat) by chosing 6 different ones.
I think the overall point is that while it’s debatable how much a character wearing MF gear may hurt a party, it’s not debatable that MF gear simply NEVER helps a party.
It may make you 10%, 5%, 1% or 0.5% less effective, but it will absolutely never make you even 0.1% more effective.
Yes. But I wouldn’t dream of complaining about a player in my party because he isn’t playing his character as well as he could be. Be it because he has +mf, just a non-maxed gear in general or not using nourishment all the time. I even end up with players who haven’t even reached lvl80 as a character… so what, big deal. Not kicking those players from the group, for the same reason I wouldn’t if someone’s not rocking 3 ascended accessories, a triforge pendant and 2 karka shells…
I agree with KyleQuest.
People tend to overrate how much mf can make a character weaker. And there are a lot more things that factor in when it comes to finishing a dungeon quickly.
When someone complains about mf gear, it sounds like they assume that every player they are with in dungeons would otherwise have:
- completely maxed lvl 80 exotic weapons, armor and accessories (+superior runes and sigils)
- enough experience with the respective dungeon.
- perfectly set traitpoints, traits and skills.
- always consuming nourishment (food AND utility).
- be a good player in general.
…also you would need a perfectly balanced mix of professions in your group.
And maby you happen to end up with really strong (non-mf-using) players who all use a cond dmg build, with each player inflicting 10+ bleed stacks on their own… obviously in a boss fight they would hit the 25 stack cap and therefore be less effective.
It is obvious that mf is a tradeoff for other stat points, but it really is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to making a group as strong and fast as possible.
Suggestion: holding shift while salvaging would prevent the confirmation dialog from appearing.
this would be perfect
I don’t know what “old crafting UI” you guys are talking about, but right now you actually can click on the number displayed at the bottom, type in whatever you want and confirm with enter. done.
If you are that concerned with misclicks, then you obviously wouldn’t deactivate the warning option (should there ever be one…).
I absolutely second that motion. An option that disables the warning would be a huge relief. And that applies especially to high lvl rares and exotics, since only they can yield globs of ectoplasm. Also pvp gear is alway exotic. Salvaging a lot of those in a row means 4 klicks per item instead of one, plus the additional travelling distance: salvage kit – item – accept -salvage kit – … it quickly becomes a rather tedious process.