I guess its not a gear treadmill then because exotic armor is still plenty capable of getting any job done. Like others have noted in the forums in increase is really minuscule you can’t notice the slightest difference. You don’t NEED this armor to do anything.
Ascended gear is noticeably stronger. A mix of Soldier’s Armor with Berserker trinkets and weapons hits harder then full Berserker exotics (almost 30%!) , yet has more then 2K additional Hit points and 250 more armor (for medium armor). Don’t try to qualify that difference as ‘minuscule’.
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It really adds up @ level 80 when you increase Condition Damage to where each stack ticks for >125 HP each second and bleed duration to +100%: 5 * 125 * 8 = 5k
There is a build, or family of builds, that focuses on killing primarily with these bleeds.
You gain 75% points from 7:00 GMT to 10:00 GMT, and from 23:00 GMT to 02:00 GMT.
Why? That is 9 AM CEST or 8AM EST?? You think everyone stays in their beds most of the morning?
I get up early, like 6AM local, or 4-5 AM GST and people from eastern europe are likely up even earlier.
What: Being able to see while stealthed.
Why: Stealth is invisibility, which means the thief’s retinas should not be able to absorb light whilst stealthed. …
They steal vision from nearby creatures :p
What: Thief Vision Stealing
Why: Allows them to see while stealthed
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Even though a fight can be fun the way WvW scores are calculated makes it sometimes more worthwhile to skip a fight and take on another target.
You suggestion to remove stealth from active combat would indeed require a major redesign of the class, it’s not just tweaks like, for example, the changes to heartseeker in the past. You do not play thief, you have no idea how pervasive the use of stealth is to it.
I used to main a Ranger in GW1 but in GW2 both the class and it’s community have become, shall we say, less appealing.
What i find strange, some thieves WANT these changes saying its to easy with it, Yet others seem to NOT want any sort of change and would rather Stealth stay the way it is…I wonder why, could it be that some players rely on it a bit TOO much?
There are a couple of classic trolls roaming the forum pretending to play thieves. They don’t.
Stealth is not a good defence, play a thief and you’ll (a) learn soon enough how other players deal with it and (b) how thieves move in stealth, to your advantage.
How many times does it have to be said? D/P pseudo-permastealth was already nerfed on the 10th of Dec and it is now impossible to maintain it without the use of utilities with lengthy cooldowns. In fact, maintaining it while doing noticeable damage is close to impossible.
It’s actually easier now lol
This is entirely false. If you’re unwilling to post a video showing us how easy it is for you to perma-stealth like D/P did pre Dec 10th, you’re just spreading lies.
Lol go google it on Youtube, buddy. Very easy to do. Nothing got nerfed!
He asked you because you have got a point to prove and we’re not going to do your job. Make a video proving it’s become easier to perma-stealth.
But you won’t do that, you never have and we all know why.
… I know everyone has his own opinions but a skill that deals 6-8k damage with each hit and requires next to nothing to spam it constantly and during the spam it also acts as an aimbot is still pretty much OP to me. .
We don’t have such a skill. If you are talking about Heartseeker, it will only hit that hard when the target is below 25% health, and then it should usually be enough to down them, which is the intended use (4 * 6k = 24k full health target). There is no spam.
It is also a gap closer, you can use it to get into melee range of your target, when they are above 50% health it will hit for about 2k, same as some autoattacks.
Well, if 3 seconds of reveal is 10% of the time, then 100% is 30 seconds. A backstab would yield a 6-8k, dagger chain and the first HS to enter stealth another 6k, so say, 12k in 30 seconds or about 400 HP/s. Yes, that looks like diddly to me. Not to mention that their opponents would have most skills off cooldown and ready for use after 30 seconds.
6-8k? Must be a lo power build, i have seen it hit for ALOT more than that.
Sure you’ll see more. It’s a reference, make a thief, hop into the mists portal, give him zerker ammulet and then run some trials on the golems. You’ll see about 6-8k bakstabs, depending on target armour and rng. You’ll get to add more offense in Wvw, but your foes can have more defense and boons then the golems. 6-8k is reference.
Yes, of course this class can survive more nerfs. It remains the best roaming wvw class, bar none, already.
Its already the least played class.
Least played? lol Go to wvw and roam a bit. 50% of solo-ers are still thieves. (bs’ed numbers, but its not that far off from 50%)
Roamers are a small part of the Wvw players. With 50+ man zergs being common, the 5 roamers capping camps and yaks and half of them thieves they do come close to being the least played class.
You are that guy that complained about Devourer Venom being so OP, are you not?
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I would still like to see any video with a thief stealthed 90% of the time in combat able to do diddly…
doing “diddly”
I would consider regain health, initiative and such would be doing something. Plus does it matter if you aren’t damaging while in stealth when your burst out of stealth makes the lack of damage from stealth meaningless
Well, if 3 seconds of reveal is 10% of the time, then 100% is 30 seconds. A backstab would yield a 6-8k, dagger chain and the first HS to enter stealth another 6k, so say, 12k in 30 seconds or about 400 HP/s. Yes, that looks like diddly to me. Not to mention that their opponents would have most skills off cooldown and ready for use after 30 seconds.
Different game mechanics and different balance choices; GW rogues don’t have defensive buffs for instance. Beside, he is wrong about the movement penalty in othe MMO’s. Which show another problem with the ‘other mmo’ arguments, they are invariably false, yet require an excessive amount of time and energy to be shown as such.
Of course, if Thief got some changes and fixes to Stealth they would need some adjustments to defense, Vit and Toughness would need to be adjusted.
I just think that Stealth in combat should be a “right situation” sort of thing and not a spam, spam, spam at every chance.
Fantastic, start with give thieves the backstab and other from-stealth attacks without stealth. Imagine the cries that would result in.
I am still waiting for your video.
So because this is GW2 it can’t learn anything from other MMO where they have a Rogue/Assassin kind of class?
Different game mechanics and different balance choices; GW rogues don’t have defensive buffs for instance. Beside, you are wrong about the movement penalty in other MMO’s. Which show another problem with the ‘other mmo’ arguments in general, they are invariably false, yet require an excessive amount of time and energy to be shown as such.
Who doesnt run with the 25% Movement buff?
And why would that be? Do you think you could hit anything without it? So, show us, play your thief without movement buffs and video how it works out. I’d love to free up a utility slot.
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Sadly enough, that is true, and it will probably persist even after the last thief was stomped.
Leave the class? No. If (when?) it becomes unplayable or GW stops being a game for me, I would leave the game. I have got to much time on this char and to little energy to really start another and the story and PvE is simply not compelling enough to get me through another 80 levels. Also, the GW’s community’s general hatred (of thieves) is a great disappointment.
At this point I’ve decided to not spend a single gem or trade gems until there is some stability.
May be, but Bush had a lasting effect on them and society in general – thief before the nerfs has not.
Every other MMO with stealth has it doing just fine with such a change…
This is not any other MMO. Besides, I am fairly certain that you are wrong about movement speed while in stealth in other MMO’s.
Suggestion for you, just try playing a D/D or D/P thief without any speed boosts and see how that plays. Don’t forget to make a video and share you successes with us, I am looking forward to it.
Following? My Thief can HS through BP for enough stealth to regenerate enough initiative to do it again for nearly as long without even taking the master-trait or utility
Paint us your picture then. As I see it you get 3 seconds of stealth, for 3 initiative regen, per HS, which costs 3 initiative, but you spend 6 initiative on Black Powder, which is not regenerated in that time. Even if you get the master trait for 4 seconds of stealth and 1 upon entering (assuming you also got hte adept trait) you only get 3+1=4 initiative back – as you can only get BP + 3 HS out of your base 12 initiative: 12 + 4 + 1 = 17 < 6 + 4*3
Did I miss something?
Trickery, Quick Pockets, Smokescreen, Roll for Initiative… and more – optimal passive regen with QP and a swap – about 16 per 10 secs (no Infusion, Opportunist, etc), 15 base – so you can stack four stealths to start – use BP then 3xHS from your base, thanks to increased regen you can slip another one in (for beginners: pan the camera directly overhead, the HS travels a much shorter distance like this – game’s tight yo!) before the smoke clears (4 seconds pulsing, you’ll regen 4 init in that frame, your first load uses 18 init total for 12 seconds stealth), as discussed, during that period you can regen the initiative spent, if you’re so inclined – not saying it’s a good idea, just that it’s an idea – throw Smokescreen and Roll for Initiative in there I’d be surprised if you couldn’t maintain a good 30-40 seconds
That is not what you said, you said “without even taking the master-trait or utility”, or at least so I understood.
If it looks like permastealth, and smells like permastealth…
But no longer achievable with just BP+HS and one adept trait. You do need further traits and utilties. This was stated as the intended goal for the nerf to infusion.
… well, about 40% more, if he plays his cards right. Thanks to +40% base regen,
I think not, infusion was nerfed – I am not arguing whether this was needed or not, just stating the fact – and with the nerf to opportunist builds/weapons that had high hit volumes also lost out (and yes, it’s very noticable with clusterbomb and unload), but that is beyond the scope of this thread.
I think you missed my point, perhaps due to missing a single word in my post. I didn’t say, “new challenges,” I said, “greater challenges.”
The distinction is important to the point I made. The character becomes more capable of overcoming tougher opposition. The character is more powerful, as can be seen by the ease with which he can now defeat opponents that would have previously challenged him. But, as is common in a game, the character moves on to challenges worthy of his new found power.
When I improve my chess game in order to be able to challenge opponents higher rated than I the progression is not illusory because I opt to play primarily opponents who are a challenge for my new level of skill.
You don’t improve your chess game by buying tougher chess pieces, you improve your knowledge of the game, your opponent’s strategies, your own skill, you know, the skills that live between your ears. This is the kind of skill progression that is far more rewarding then rehashing the same actions to get a more powerful avatar. This is one aspect that GW1 did better, something we loved about it that did not make it into GW2.
Greater challenges should require greater skill to overcome, not greater avatars.
People would quit. Scarlet is annoying but the message pops up infrequently, if messages from guards were done the same way it could well flood the chat – there is always a camp or keep attacked. Put them in a separate chat channel so people can choose whether they want to see them.
Even then I think this is not a good idea because it gives too much information to easily. Small teams wouldn’t be able to do much, it’s just fun to take a tower with just three or four players. No baiting for larger groups either, as anyone could just see what is going on from the numbers being broadcast.
I dunno, maybe as an upgrade for keeps, that way spam would be limited.
P/D condition build with caltrops and a bit of Choking Gas will work almost as fast as D/D. But you cannot mix D/D and P/D very well as one is a Power/Crit setup and the other a Condition. You could try Carrion but both will suffer. Dealing with mostly player escorts, I’d go Dire and focus on p/d condition.
1. Higher mobility = Higher survablity
2. If you kill your opponents quickly you can escalate it down to a 1v1 from a 1v2 and then your survablity suddenly doubles up. becuse you bursted before teammate noticed.About the stats. Thief survablity is not stats. its our stealth and moblity.
@1 – Shadow refuge is more then enough time to get out, even without shortbow or dagger main
@2 – If the burst succeeds, the D/D will have Mug on cooldown after the first, while P/D is actually quite happy with extra bodies to C&D on. The glassy D/D that manages to down an opponent in one burst is also rather squishy on stats (and traits) and far more easily downed than the P/D.
Following? My Thief can HS through BP for enough stealth to regenerate enough initiative to do it again for nearly as long without even taking the master-trait or utility
Paint us your picture then. As I see it you get 3 seconds of stealth, for 3 initiative regen, per HS, which costs 3 initiative, but you spend 6 initiative on Black Powder, which is not regenerated in that time. Even if you get the master trait for 4 seconds of stealth and 1 upon entering (assuming you also got hte adept trait) you only get 3+1=4 initiative back – as you can only get BP + 3 HS out of your base 12 initiative: 12 + 4 + 1 = 17 < 6 + 4*3
Did I miss something?
True, P/D lacks mobility, though SR usually is enough. Or a second set with more mobility.
As always, the only people who think thieves are balanced are the people who play them -including the devs-. It’s like Kim Jong-il being the only one thinking North Korea is a-ok.
As always, the only people who think thieves are op are the people who can’t be bothered to learn how to fight them.
Saying something on the internet does not make it true, fyi.
Typical response from a thief: L2P to people who already know how yet once he logs on a regular class=gets wiped>>runs back to playing a thief.
Interesting reaction….
I will explain it, as you missed the obvious,
Your post had the exact same structure as mine and you’ve actually replied to yourself. Here, I’ll do it again, pay attention:
Saying something on the internet does not make it true, fyi.
Typical response from a thief: L2P to people who already know how yet once he logs on a regular class=gets wiped>>runs back to playing a thief.
Typical response from someone who can’t be bothered to learn how to fight other classes: calling for nerfs on the classes that give him problems.
Try playing a ranger and let’s see how well you do..oh wait..you won’t
Try playing a thief and lets see how well you do..oh wait..you won’t
mhh, 2 boons every 20 seconds, might as well run sigil of nullification, yet I never see anyone suggest using that.
Same problem, flashing messages interrupting combat. The only way I could see this work is if it’s limited to a (de)selectable chat channel.
Until you loose a camp because you had to click messages away in the middle of a fight. Bad idea. Besides, as slingblade said, being aware of what happens in your realm is part of the game.
It’s actually easier now lol
How so? Show us, oh, master thief.
Thank you.
Pfew. It had to be that, but you never know and it’s quite an investment.
You can swap weapons between fights, D/D+D/P <> D/D+Sb. Might be surprising for an opponent when you switch from D/D to D/P or vv.
I’d love to see the thief get more short range teleports that disorient opponents over stealth.
There once was, but it is no more.
As always, the only people who think thieves are balanced are the people who play them -including the devs-. It’s like Kim Jong-il being the only one thinking North Korea is a-ok.
As always, the only people who think thieves are op are the people who can’t be bothered to learn how to fight them.
Why are we allowed to group in WvW with enemy players? Poor sportsmanship such as this happens all too often.
Consider it a compliment.
See, this is where we disagree.
You’re saying that if you can’t counter HS, it’s you who’s not good. Well, not every class can do that as I said before. For example, when I roll my fresh air burst ele
class =/= build. You give an example of one build and then claim the while class (every build for that class) is affected?
spam a skill 3+ times a skill that acts as an aimbot and hits you 6-8k each time
That never happened, heartseeker will not hit 3 times in a row for 6-8k. Heartseeker > 50% will not hit for 6k and 3 × 6-8k = 18-24k, usually quite a bit more then 50% health.
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Mhh, trickery runs mostly on one skill to provide a bunch of boons, to put it in very briefly, not much difference there.
Curious what you encountered, do you have a video?
Or if you missed the record button, roll a D/P thief and demonstrate taking, for example, a supply camp (only NPC’s) with permastealth.
I can’t even find a topic I just created with words (like soulbound) from that topic. It’s really unusable.
With the lack of Ascended armor on the TP I was wondering if crafted ascended gear is soulbound or account bound when crafted (acquired). I’d rather not craft an ascended weapon on a character that doesn’t really use it and then find I can’t transfer it to one that could …
No, no runes or sigils that convert to tougness, not that I could find anyway.
To start playing a thief P/D is much more forgiving on positioning, it doesn’t have a backstab that must land just right, you can Sneak Attack from anywhere within the 900 range. Full Dire also boosts both thoughness and vitality which result in better base (static) survivability then Valkyre/Berserker. Once you get a feel for timing and all you can try D/D 1vX.
I saw a lot of topics like this, but all of them are out dated, so i have one question.
In your opinion, what class is the best for WvW and why?
If you are looking for help choosing a class, don’t ask here because most answers are QQ’s.
Ask in prof forums for the classes you are interested in.
P/D (not D/P)
Focus on Condition Damage, Thoughness and Vitality gear, mix with Carrion for more power on C&D.
Trait into Shadow Arts, Shadow Rejuvenation, Shadow’s Embrace and Cloaked in Shadow. Some Acrobatics, Trickery and Deadly Arts, flavoured to your play-style.
Black Powder wins.
Kinda slow though in PvE.
+1
I stopped putting in money to the gemstore because it seems like ANET is unwilling to fix many things about the game. If they are unwilling I feel I can vote with my money at my unsatisfaction.
Keep in mind that you only stop putting money in the gemstore if you don’t buy gems at all, that includes gems traded for gold. Every gem is bought with real money, including every gem you trade. So if anyone does want to make this point, don’t trade gems.
Posting exploits on the forums is against the code of conduct, as is character assassination. Read this, it’s what you agree to when you come to post on these forums:.
You don’t actually, you buy the game, then sign up for guildwars.com with the code in the box. There’s no agreement on forum conduct before making the buy.
Yo, you kidding us?
Oh, wait, no you’re right, venoms are op, everybody knows that.