(edited by goldi.3129)
Healix, Arenanet not telling is the root of the problem. I do not believe that the silence of the developers means something is “OK”. If the law in my country, or those that make the law, does not tell me explicitly that putting young kittens in the microwave is not allowed, does not mean that it must therefore be allowed.
My only point of reference is the User Agreement and the Rules of Conduct. If I believe something is an unintended game mechanic inside the game, I don’t use it. If I believe something is an unintended game mechanic outside the game, which affects what I do inside the game, I don’t use it. However, Goldi, DarkSpirit and others who argued the opposite, have valid points too. Maybe they’re completely right. I don’t know. This is why I am requesting guidance. To know what I am allowed to do, and to avoid any hostile discussions back and forth about it on this forum. I’d like to know the boundries. What is permitted, and what is not. It’s unclear for those in favor and those against, and it’s creating a divide between players. I’m OK with the outcome either way.
And since we only can post our oppinions as we interpret their EULA an official statement would be nice to end that discussion once and for all like you said
Legendaries are a luxury object. And thus prized as a luxury is to be expected.
legendary is a tier
That tier will be unavailable to other players for some time every tier jump we will have.
See what happened with triforge and amulets?
Well imagine having a better armor of any other player for about a month every time a tier get release or lvl cap upgraded.
I never wanted a legendary before november 15 as many other players that doesn t like those skin…
Wrong game. Legendary is mainly cosmetic. Check the stat difference between the legendary weapons and exotics in the same slot.
And what you mention is the gear spiral- again wrong game.
Legendaries represent more than luxury and cosmetic, this is where you are wrong.
There is no other achievement in game on par with a legendary. Remove Legendaries from the game and 90% will plain quit as this is the only thing remaining for someone who already completed the world, dungeons, and got bored with WvW.
Anet knows this and let the market madness continue as we keep struggling with 0,00001% drop rates. There must be a carrot at the end of the stick.
…
lux·u·ry (lgzh-r, lksh-)
n. pl. lux·u·ries
1. Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort.
2. Something expensive or hard to obtain.
3. Sumptuous living or surroundingsDefinition of luxury.
See point 2 and 1 which applies completely to legendaries.In no sentence did I say that legendaries are NOT and endgame goal. I merely said they are not essential for any content in the game as according to luxury definition.
I repeat. Remove them from the game and 90% will quit sooner than expected. They are much more than what you think. I’m sorry if you fail to see that.
Its almost every player carrot on the stick. (Even though many denied that because they already gave up, yeah… they right click them preview as well when nobody sees them).
Maybe you didn’t read my last sentence of the post you quoted…
Carrot on stick is the key concept here… they are not essential to the naked eye, but they are. Without them or the idea of having one eventually makes the game old fast.
What else is there for us, the players who are here since release and already completed most of the game content?
Why exactly are you posting in a thread thats sole purpose is to make legendaries easier to obtain, therefor by your argument removing the carrot and making players quit…
Looks like you took my first quote way out of place.
As to your second point, if that is really your problem (I started on headstart as well) open the achievment tab and you will without doubt get pointed into several directions
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There was a post about this from Mike O’Brien when the same question was raised just after release.
US dollar prices are displayed exclusive of sales tax, which is then added on to the price you pay later in the checkout process.
Euro prices are displayed inclusive of VAT, which is charged at 20% because ArenaNet’s EU operation is based in the UK, which has %20 VAT rate.
10 Eur / 1.2 = 8.3333333 Euros.
So Arenanet get 8.333 Euros when you spend 10.
Current exchange rate is 1 dollar = 0.75 Euro. When the game launched mid 2012, the exchange rate was actually 1 Dollar = 0.8x Euro, very close to what the 1 to 1 conversion works out at without the VAT.
It would be unwieldy to continually adjust prices based on exchange rate fluctuations, so 1 to 1 seems to me to be a perfectly sensible conversion.
At this juncture I should point out that if you buy in GBP, then you are getting the short end of the stick, because in that case they are charging more than just the cost of the VAT extra.
Thanks for the clarification regarding VAT
I understand, what will happen if I purchase in USD instead of EUR?
Will I be able to use the gems while playing in Europe?Nope…if you are from Europe you get charged in Euro period. You cant pick your poison.
You could still buy a gem card for dollars I guess. And don’t mistake me, I’m from europe as well
By the way, Zicore, I don’t think you should have released this to the community. The community doesn’t appreciate this and you will get backlash after all your hard work. You could have used it to just benefit yourself instead of people who don’t appreciate your work even though it is free. I have created a similar app in C# (but using .NET Framework 4.5 instead for async functionality) before I found out about yours but I didn’t want to release it because of this reason.
Here is the entire thread where I was trying to defend your app until it had to be closed:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/New-apps-being-created-if-this-is-legal-im-out/first
I suggest you stop adding more powerful features to your app before you get cursed and spit on for all your hard work.
There were also ppl in that thread who supported the idea (and your argumentations)- so just like the OP, keep up the good work and don’t let yourself get discouraged by some raging forum warriors.
As long as such tools are kept informal only (not directly influencing the game course by automated ingame actions- I always assumed that the points of reading out memory in the eula are assuring that such won’t happen) and you don’t try to earn money with them I am sure Anet sees them as what they are meant to be.
Contributions by the community to add more complex to the minigame of the tp (as everyone has access to those tools the markets would become much more interesting).
Yes, because I like gambling and getting all the colors eventually (buying them would feel like some kind of self cheating). Its always nice to get a dye you don’t have yet- even if its just a 20c dye.
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Th price dropped by a silver in a whole day and I had to pull mine.
I think I succeeded in doing the opposite and lost 7 gold.
On the weekends the markets are always very unpredictable with the huge influence of “weekend” players
I will never understand such threads in which people seem to insist that they have the right to certain endgame items for almost nothing.
I can’t say that I’ve EVER seens someone claim they have the right to certain endgame items for almost nothing… except for poorly disguised attempts at strawman arguments by defenders of the status quo.
And what would you consider this thread than? Don’t you think those players would whine about 300g dusks at well?
There have been countless posts with the content of “I’m a casual gamer, I will never see a legendary” in these forums.
I also don’t think that a living economy (as the one in gw2 is) needs any arguments to be defended.
We have a player driven economy like it or like it not
I think it’s fair to judge inflation on the items that are worth to think about in end game. Maybe the precursor example is a bit limiting, but it’s the best example for what i meant to say
Precursors are a high demand-low supply item. The demand is rising steadily as more and more people find a legendary the only long term achievement they hace to look forward to.
Which leaves them with two options for attaining the precursor. Play the mystic forge lottery or buy the pre. Since the lottery is as the name implies a lottery most people play it save and invest a fix amount of money for a preditable result.
And we only have quest rewards, de rewards and vendor sales in means to add to the inflation. Those are always only small amounts. On the other hand you have the 15% tp fee to take money out of the economy.
If you regard those factors you can never come up with the afore mentioned 20% inflation rate vol criticzed as well
Sure. Let’s all not look at numbers anymore. Or logic, for that matter.
I didn’t mean you but the OP
If you can’t accept that than sorry, MMOs are not the place for you.
It’s a good thing Anet does not have that ideology or they would not be able to maintain a healthy game. For us, it’s a question of when and whether action is needed based on the experience of the majority of players.
If ANet wouldn’t follow that route they wouldn’t have introduced a TP- espescially a globally linked one. Every item would be available for a fixed price from an NPC.
And the majority of the players is not on the forums and don’t think every item they can’t afford is being manipulated either. You stated your opinion- nohing more. I stated how the economy works in every single big MMO on the market.
Supply and demand as well as prizing in the “interplayertrades” are completely done by the players.
edit Charismatic Ham did a post in the direction I was going- and put far more effort into it while I was writing mine
The “Trading Post is PVP” is an argument used to justify market manipulation because it frankly has nothing to do with PVP. It’s supposed to be a tool to create abundance through the exchange of goods from players who don’t need them to the ones that do. You may as well say LFG is PVP and that while it enables some players to be kittens, it is fully consensual because players are in too much of a hurry to find friends who all want to play the same game multiple hours a day.
I’ve been playing for a month and while I’ve gotten a fair number of yellow drops, I don’t think any of them combine together as a reasonable set and I have still never received a single orange drop. If it wasn’t for the TP I would not have access to dungeons or fractals and would probably even be in a bit of a slog without a duo partner in Orr wearing blues and greens.
The problem with the market being inflated (whether by people dumping gems into gold and inflating the supply of currency or by manipulation) is not that someone won’t get their Legendaries in four months instead of six, it’s the rise of prices in ordinary items for casual and beginning players.
Wrong. Like Nike said the TP is a Minigame like PvP. In the regards that it is a part of the game that you CAN participate in- you don’t have to.
Go and farm some karma and get the tempel exotics if you don’t like the prizes for exotics in the tp for example. Or run dungeons and aquire the exotics via tokens (No you don’t need exotics for dungeons you can even run them with rares, masterworks or blues).
The tp is the quick and lazy way and it comes with a prize.In every MMO that has a market you will see people who enjoy PvP, PvE or economies. It is a basic part of the game, again, like Nike said. And like I said noone is forcing you to participate.
The prize of ordinary items is not rising due to market manipulation but due to the fact that the game is growing older and more and more money is flowing into the economy from sources like selling trash to vendors, event rewards etc etc.
Not every prize that increases is due to market manipulation. And if the prize stabilizes after a time, than the old prize was simply too low- if the people are not willing to pay the new prizes manipulation ends very quickly with a hefty loss for the wannabe manipulatorNo, the TP is not and should not be a legitimate “minigame”. TP competition is an emergent factor from having an in-game economy. This is something that can be controlled and needs to be going forward to keep the game accessible to new or inexperienced players and ensure that progression in equipment is reasonable and in line with the needs of most players.
You can say all you want that you can run dungeons in blue gear but it’s an unrealistic expectation. Expert players will always be able to trivialize them but those who are less into it need every advantage they can get. Groups will kick players for not having full exotics. You cannot say that blues and greens are valid dungeon gear for most players. And yes, you can say learn2play all you like. You can even justify it by saying that it is generally the highly skilled, superheavy players that pay most of the money to keep the game running, but it’s a poor attitude for the game to take in the long run.
Yes, prices do inflate over time as more money enters the economy. The problem is when the rate of inflation is too high. That is not the same as market manipulation and is just as bad no matter which causes the other. Moreover, you’re forgetting that there is no cost to maintaining goods on the TP and no limit to the number of items that can be kept there. If at any time players are unwilling to pay high prices (whether or not these are caused by manipulation), it is the seller that benefits from waiting.
Like I said in every game where you have a central place for economic transactions (aka TP, AH, GTN or marketplace) there are ALWAYS people who enjoy applying the rules of the real world economy to the ingame economy.
If you can’t accept that than sorry, MMOs are not the place for you.
The “Trading Post is PVP” is an argument used to justify market manipulation because it frankly has nothing to do with PVP. It’s supposed to be a tool to create abundance through the exchange of goods from players who don’t need them to the ones that do. You may as well say LFG is PVP and that while it enables some players to be kittens, it is fully consensual because players are in too much of a hurry to find friends who all want to play the same game multiple hours a day.
I’ve been playing for a month and while I’ve gotten a fair number of yellow drops, I don’t think any of them combine together as a reasonable set and I have still never received a single orange drop. If it wasn’t for the TP I would not have access to dungeons or fractals and would probably even be in a bit of a slog without a duo partner in Orr wearing blues and greens.
The problem with the market being inflated (whether by people dumping gems into gold and inflating the supply of currency or by manipulation) is not that someone won’t get their Legendaries in four months instead of six, it’s the rise of prices in ordinary items for casual and beginning players.
Wrong. Like Nike said the TP is a Minigame like PvP. In the regards that it is a part of the game that you CAN participate in- you don’t have to.
Go and farm some karma and get the tempel exotics if you don’t like the prizes for exotics in the tp for example. Or run dungeons and aquire the exotics via tokens (No you don’t need exotics for dungeons you can even run them with rares, masterworks or blues).
The tp is the quick and lazy way and it comes with a prize.
In every MMO that has a market you will see people who enjoy PvP, PvE or economies. It is a basic part of the game, again, like Nike said. And like I said noone is forcing you to participate.
The prize of ordinary items is not rising due to market manipulation but due to the fact that the game is growing older and more and more money is flowing into the economy from sources like selling trash to vendors, event rewards etc etc.
Not every prize that increases is due to market manipulation. And if the prize stabilizes after a time, than the old prize was simply too low- if the people are not willing to pay the new prizes manipulation ends very quickly with a hefty loss for the wannabe manipulator
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If he bought say, 10k at 1.99 he now seeks to bait people into outbiding his bidwall- at 2.38 he’d make roughly 4 copper win (2.38*0.85-1.99) multiplied with 10k.
That could be one reason.
Another could be that the item was undervalued (if he can place a bid 35c over the highes bo without tipping into the sellorders that could be the case) and he simply wants those 4k of items (for what he thinks is the real worth) without having to fear people outbidding him.
My money would be on option 1 though after you said highly traded crafting material.
And the information that is essential for the automated tools is provided by Anet as a gesture of goodwill. Or was so far. Without the access no automated search with high profit analyzes and therefore no buisness model
If youd create the analyzis without the automatimns than your golden.Hmmm….this brings up an interesting dilemma.
What if a site was only to provide a way to GET the data and analysis tools to analyze it? What I mean by this is that the site doesn’t actually collect all the data using it’s authorized account, but the user would have to request the data they want using their own account. The website just offers an easy way to do this and collects it on a per user basis, then also offers the analysis tools to the user. That way, each user would be responsible for the number of requests that are made…not the service provider.
I would be like eTrade offering up their feeds from the stock markets to each user individually based on the markets / stocks they want to analyze, then once the data the user requested is collected, they can use the analysis tools that are also offered by eTrade to analyze the data.
The site would only be offering tools….no actual data…just a means to acquire it.
The middle tier would still be the interface Anet provides. The profit would be made of a tool that is based on the interface- who uses the tool how is not the issue. The profit is.
No matter where it is made- as long as somewhere in the chain there is the access to the information that is currently provided for free by a company and you don’t have contacted afore mentioned company if you can use that automated access in that way you are open to get sued.
Simple example, Blizzard sued the hell out of people who sold bots for WoW.
Not because botting was illegal- but because they made a profit based on a product that had no licence for using there product as a source of income. This example does NOT compare botting with crawling their TP through an provided API.
It is simply to show that once a profit is made out of something that does not belong to you/you don’t have the rights to use in that profitgenerating way you are stepping on very very thin ice.
Provide your tools for free- no problem at all Try to profit by using even the tiniest part of work from someone else… and copyright will whack you.
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That’s my worry. I love the work that’s gone into spidy, and the openness of its API has lead to some really interesting options for market enthusiasts. I would hate to see ANet tighten up the web access to the TP, thus killing spidy, because of sites trying to profit directly from that information.
This may be nit-picky, but I feel it’s an important point to make….
I don’t feel they are directly profiting from that information. They are indirectly profiting from it. Their direct profits are, or at least should be, coming from their analysis tools.
And the information that is essential for the automated tools is provided by Anet as a gesture of goodwill. Or was so far. Without the access no automated search with high profit analyzes and therefore no buisness model
If youd create the analyzis without the automatimns than your golden.
……
The only desirable items in the chest is Endless Mystery Tonic, Permanent Contracts….
I’d add the salvage kits and the chance to get a minipack (should be possible to get one from them- haven’t seen any myself) to that list
Why should they?
So that rune/sigil prices won’t go through the roof.
Not every item is craftable (take a look at all those exotic weapons/armors for example
Irrelevant, we’re discussing runes and sigils.
If everything was craftable the only items of value on the market would be crafting mats.
Exaggeration, we’re discussing runes and sigils.
Or you’d be forced to grind dungeons for the high end recipes=> gear spiral.
What the hell are you on about?
Irrelevant why exactly? Its an example. You say you want to craft all runes- why not all armor than? Just because YOU want to craft all the runes/sigils now- so you can get them cheap. Next day you want all the armor for a low prize as well.
Its a basic of an MMO that there are rare items. Which depend on rng. If you want all the items for free do sPvP.
You can aquire both the same way now- through rng, either by drops (in the rune/sigil case by weapons/armor with the runes and than salvaging them) or by rng in the Mystic forge.
So John, any chance of making every kitten rune/sigil craftable? It’d only make sense putting, let’s say, 2 molten lodes, an ori bar and an ecto to make a superior sigil of fire.
Why should they? Not every item is craftable (take a look at all those exotic weapons/armors for example ).
If everything was craftable the only items of value on the market would be crafting mats.
Or you’d be forced to grind dungeons for the high end recipes=> gear spiral.