Guild Wars 2

You are wrong- as has been explained in countless threads that had the same conspiracy theories.
There have even been a few official numbers about movements of precursors thrown in by John Smith.

Basically to sum everything up, the precursor market, like all other markets is driven by supply and demand.

Anet makes far more money with the gambling

Snowpea.5469:

I am beginning to suspect that there is are large-scale gold farming groups which are controlling the prices of raw materials. All components seem to add up to the finished item price (crafting is nearly useless), and its all too perfect to just be players knowing what each item is worth. Not enough fluctuation.

I encourage ArenaNet to look into it because the economy on this game is boring as hell, and I normally love to trade & craft stuff, but there’s no point here.

Global TP, crafting and all mats available to everyone, with crafting being also a great (and easy) way to level.
Guess in what that results? Right, everyone tries crafting and undercuts the previous seller until the prize is roughly at the material prize.
That has nothing to do with manipulation.

You can still make profits through crafting. Certain midlevel items sell really well for example.

But you have to look for market niches not simply craft the endgame recipes and excpect a huge income.

Nice read Good luck!

Gasoline.2570:

Its a supply problem when 600+ g in the forge doesn’t result +1 supply.

You gambled and took the risk- and you lost. That has nothing to do with supply.

If 600g would guarantee a precursor in the forge, guess where the prize for the pre cursors would stand.

Amun Ra.6435:

Merrian – Webster:

1 : painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage

Amun Ra.6435:

Envy? man, you need a girlfriend/boyfriend…anyways… I see no reason why people playing the TP should have an advantage over people who grind content.

Ursan.7846:

Ooshi.8607:

Why should a person that grinds dungeons/fractals have an advantage over another that RPs a bar wench in one of a Queensdale Taverns?

Why isn’t the gold/hour rate of a lvl80 grinding the content in Metrica Province the same as another lvl80 in Cursed Shore?

Why is the gold/hour rate so bad in sPvP?

I will let you know bar wenches earn a TON in tips. The Maiden’s Whisper is a particularly profitable locale for aspiring Whispers Initiates who wish to ply their “trade.”

I knew I played the game the wrong way

@Amun, maybe you should reread your posts. And look up the definition of envy

Amun Ra.6435:

Ooshi.8607:

Munkee.3542:

There’s a difference between entitlement and ridiculous. The fact is precursors are ridiculous and the only people who disagree are those who have a legendary(ies) or those who are cornering the precursor market. We’re not asking to be given a precursor, we’re asking for a legit way to EARN one.

Don’t have a legendary, not cornering the precursor market.
In my humble opinion, I think the price is fine!
Not a easy amount to get if you plan on buying it, not impossible.

Amun Ra.6435:

Really guy? Really? lmfao. Not even gonna comment on the silliness of that comment…errr

If it’s so easy and doesn’t require any amount of skill then we don’t have a problem. The people not doing it are just lazy!

No, we actually prefer to do content? Again…Really?

You can enjoy whatever content you like, and you will eventually have enough money or a random drop so you have your precursor.
If you think one way is faster than the other and your primary goal is speed – by all means go that way but don’t complain that you don’t want to go that way or envy the people who went that way. (That way being playing the TP).

And -as was already mentioned- the TP is part of what you like to call “doing the content”.

sostronk.8167:

Rising Dusk.2408:

This whole discussion about them ‘cutting costs’ or whatever is unfounded. As a matter of fact, if you check their website, they’re ramping up on employees for different aspects of the game and company. Their development team, who we have no reason to distrust, has also on assorted occasions said that they’re not laying off employees or blatantly cutting costs. Go search the dev tracker if you’re curious.

The reason precursors are so valuable is because they are so rare and because demand is so high. Eventually this will drop off as more are added to the game whenever the precursor scavenger hunt comes to fruition, so if you’re not dead-set on getting your legendary right now, save up and wait.

As a side note, I’d really love for them to do another one-off with a Karka-like chest because that was awesome, but who knows what they’ll actually do.

I have played enough games that have gone the same route Anet have gone and they are cutting costs. I have seen so many games in the situation GW2 is in atm and the companies who are running them have claimed they are employing new staff and investing more money into the game and have the players going ök they must be doing this and we just aren’t seeing it", only to see the game flop.

If you want to argue that GW2 is increasing development, than where is it? Flame and Frost? I could have written the code for parts 1 and 2 in a under a full working week, by myself. And thats the content we have had for the last 2-3 months with some minor patch changes. Where is the development?

You should realise that flame and frost is more than just the new content- read the patch notes – and that you’re making quite a fool of yourself with your time tables and other exclamations.

gw2!=hello world. And if you have any clue of software engineering at all you would know that the actual coding time is less than 30% of the calculated project work time.

5% for listing the item, 10% when its sold.

Geikamir.6329:

goldi.3129:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

You guys forget about one thing. Without RNG Legendary wouldn’t be unique anymore. Everyone playing game long enough would run with one and people had one after playing the game for 2 months. Not even that, majority of the people that complains got their gifts ready and they are only missing precursor.
Sorry but Legendary weapons wouldn’t be what they’re now when half of the GW2 population would run with one. And it’s not like it’s impossible to even get one with the system implemented. You only need to try.

“Everyone playing [the] game long enough would run with one…”

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

Having lottery level RNG does not make something prestigious. It makes the major end game item a cheapened experience where some are unfairly rewarded for their effort (or lack their of) and others are punished for not being lucky enough.

Once again I am not saying is good or bad. I am saying RNG is a part of a genre. Can you name MMO without RNG? The whole point of a unique item is its uniqueness and that means not everyone can have it/ obtain it. And that is not even true with Legendary. I have played in many MMOs and in some of them you have really had item that were literally impossible to get (Aion for example).
Now if everyone around was running with Legendary would they still maintain its “value”? Would that be still desired by players?

I’ll quote Arena Net again: “And if you hate MMO’s you should REALLY try GW2…”

Comparing this game to the bad habits of it’s predecessors is flawed from the start. Instead of just saying how others have had done things worse helps no one. Let’s just address the issue at hand in this game.

And to your last point: RNG does not make something prestigious. If it involved actual skill and/or challenge on an equal level for all those involved I would have no problem with the system. The problem is fairness and fun. And lotteries are neither of those things (except for the VERY small percentage of winners).

There is nothing wrong with small scale RNG (like crit chance) because the level of reward and rarity are both very minor. The median level intended is reached very often and easily. It’s when extremes are used that some people, no matter how much they try and work towards their goal, can seemingly never obtain their goal (speaking in general terms here). And others can be rewarded instantly with potentially no work, effort, or maybe even care involved.

Well compare it to other MMOs. There you usually grind the same RAID instance for months till you get that “cool looking wicked item”. And compete with a dozen others on that drop if rng favors you.

You don’t need to do that in gw2, in fact you can get a legendary nearly 90% of the way solo and in the “worst” case in small groups. So they did infact introduce something new. That you don’t like the prize… well your problem. Its still new aproach.

Thanks for quoting my post and then proceeding to completely disregard it.

Actually I responded to your first sentence. Remember you said something about GW2’s marketing campaign of how there would be differences to the usual MMOs. I described how the legedary mechanismn is in fact different than the mechanismns for comparable equipment in other games.

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

You guys forget about one thing. Without RNG Legendary wouldn’t be unique anymore. Everyone playing game long enough would run with one and people had one after playing the game for 2 months. Not even that, majority of the people that complains got their gifts ready and they are only missing precursor.
Sorry but Legendary weapons wouldn’t be what they’re now when half of the GW2 population would run with one. And it’s not like it’s impossible to even get one with the system implemented. You only need to try.

“Everyone playing [the] game long enough would run with one…”

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

Having lottery level RNG does not make something prestigious. It makes the major end game item a cheapened experience where some are unfairly rewarded for their effort (or lack their of) and others are punished for not being lucky enough.

Once again I am not saying is good or bad. I am saying RNG is a part of a genre. Can you name MMO without RNG? The whole point of a unique item is its uniqueness and that means not everyone can have it/ obtain it. And that is not even true with Legendary. I have played in many MMOs and in some of them you have really had item that were literally impossible to get (Aion for example).
Now if everyone around was running with Legendary would they still maintain its “value”? Would that be still desired by players?

I’ll quote Arena Net again: “And if you hate MMO’s you should REALLY try GW2…”

Comparing this game to the bad habits of it’s predecessors is flawed from the start. Instead of just saying how others have had done things worse helps no one. Let’s just address the issue at hand in this game.

And to your last point: RNG does not make something prestigious. If it involved actual skill and/or challenge on an equal level for all those involved I would have no problem with the system. The problem is fairness and fun. And lotteries are neither of those things (except for the VERY small percentage of winners).

There is nothing wrong with small scale RNG (like crit chance) because the level of reward and rarity are both very minor. The median level intended is reached very often and easily. It’s when extremes are used that some people, no matter how much they try and work towards their goal, can seemingly never obtain their goal (speaking in general terms here). And others can be rewarded instantly with potentially no work, effort, or maybe even care involved.

Well compare it to other MMOs. There you usually grind the same RAID instance for months till you get that “cool looking wicked item”. And compete with a dozen others on that drop if rng favors you.

You don’t need to do that in gw2, in fact you can get a legendary nearly 90% of the way solo and in the “worst” case in small groups. So they did infact introduce something new. That you don’t like the prize… well your problem. Its still new aproach.

Rouven.7409:

RNG is the rule that is used, but it is not the only rule that could be used. It is a rule that is used a lot – so was mob tagging, the usual quest structure and the competition for harvesting nodes.

In short, they are working on adding different rules which might please a wider audience without taking away existing rules that people already like.

Please reread my post above.

Geikamir.6329:

goldi.3129:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

And why so angry about it? Are you the same angry if someone wins the lottery in RL?
And what’s more important how is that different to drops in any other MMO that was and is on the market?

First of all, comparing to the bad practices of MMOs as justification is inherently flawed (“…and if you don’t like MMO’s you should REALLY check out GW2”).

Secondly, just because something already exists (like the lottery) doesn’t mean it’s a fun design. The only people that benefit from the system are the lottery winners, which are a very, very, very small % of the participates.

In a multiplayer game, RNG is small doses is fine. It’s the excessive levels that ruin the experience for many. Low chance/high reward is just not fun, inventive, intriguing, or satisfying for anyone but the lucky.

Is this your first MMO? RNG is one of the main parts of every MMO. Whether it is in drops, damage rolls etc. So if you don’t like one of the BASIC mechanismns of mmos… maybe play another game?
Or do you complain about the the rules of soccer as well? Also GW2 mentioned from the beginning that it would have a cosmetic grind. So I don’t know where you got that quote of, probably self made.
GW2 does a lot of things different than other MMOs, but is still an MMO.

And to your secondly: Noone forces you to play the lottery, noone forces you to get a legendary. I wouldn’t complain if I lost money in the lottery- you shouldn’t complain that a legendary (proclaimed as long time goal by Anet, source in some posts I made already) takes a long time.

RNG is not a rule. Questing is not a rule. Trinity is not a rule. etc.

These are conditions that current games of the genre adhere to. You have been ‘conditioned’ to accept it and obviously have a hard time seeing anything farther than what’s already been handed to you.

It’s not about force. This isn’t a prison. It’s about fun. This is a game. And the lottery is only fun for a small fraction of the player base. That means it’s only about .1% fun. And that’s not enough fun for a system as important to the life of the game as a legendaries are, imo.

Also, if it’s sole purpose was to be a long term goal some lucky players wouldn’t be able to get to the end result so fast according to what their big drops were or how nice the mystic forge was to them. Long term goals can exist and still be fair, fun, and reward based off of effort and accomplishment.

In fact RNG is a rule. Like I said. Or how would you do mobdrops etc. otherwise… static loot? No Critical hits? Welcome to grindwars… a boring static game with porenous bones as currency. Those are just examples of rng mind you.
Again noone is forcing you to play the game or go for a legendary.
If those parts are not “fun” for you the descision is entirely yours.

And your last pararaph is btw. only: “Some people have more luck than others, thats sooo unfair”. So get some arguments or play games that are entirely skill based with no random elements like chess.

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

And why so angry about it? Are you the same angry if someone wins the lottery in RL?
And what’s more important how is that different to drops in any other MMO that was and is on the market?

First of all, comparing to the bad practices of MMOs as justification is inherently flawed (“…and if you don’t like MMO’s you should REALLY check out GW2”).

Secondly, just because something already exists (like the lottery) doesn’t mean it’s a fun design. The only people that benefit from the system are the lottery winners, which are a very, very, very small % of the participates.

In a multiplayer game, RNG is small doses is fine. It’s the excessive levels that ruin the experience for many. Low chance/high reward is just not fun, inventive, intriguing, or satisfying for anyone but the lucky.

Is this your first MMO? RNG is one of the main parts of every MMO. Whether it is in drops, damage rolls etc. So if you don’t like one of the BASIC mechanismns of mmos… maybe play another game?
Or do you complain about the the rules of soccer as well? Also GW2 mentioned from the beginning that it would have a cosmetic grind. So I don’t know where you got that quote of, probably self made.
GW2 does a lot of things different than other MMOs, but is still an MMO.

And to your secondly: Noone forces you to play the lottery, noone forces you to get a legendary. I wouldn’t complain if I lost money in the lottery- you shouldn’t complain that a legendary (proclaimed as long time goal by Anet, source in some posts I made already) takes a long time.

Just to use some hindsight- guess the prize is getting more and more stable.

Ooshi.8607:

Kithzyan.5034:

Okay! So in response to those claiming open world PvP is what the majority wants, heres some actual data. This is the WoW server populations as of right now and it does not look good in your favour…

Normal (PvE World + Instanced PvP)
New Players (Lowest): 1
Low: 0
Medium: 96
High: 9
Full: 2
TOTAL: 108

PvP (Open World PvP + Instanced Pvp)
New Players (Lowest): 1
Low: 47
Medium: 35
High: 8
Full: 4
TOTAL: 95

So not only are there more PvE servers than PvP servers, but a notable number of the PvE servers have a higher population than PvP; while there are obviously still a good number of PvP players, the PvE players very much outnumber them.

Just to assign a little metric to them, if you assume a new/low pop server is worth 1, medium 2, high 3 and full 4 points, you’d get:

PvE: 1 + 192 + 27 + 8 = 228
PvP: 48 + 70 + 24 + 16 = 158

So, do tell me about the majority wanting open world PvP again :>

Using your numbers I wouldn’t disregard what 40% of the population want. Thank you for proving that in fact PvPErs are not a small vocal minority and that in fact are a substantial part of at least that game’s overall population.
I wonder if the same thing would apply to GW’s population or if magically GW only attracts one type of player. Judging by the popularity of WvW I do not think so.
And for a company that gave us dynamic events and level scaling I do not think it would be beyond their capabilities to create a system that prevented or punished low level (newb) ganking.
As for attacking someone while they are already attacking a mob…. it’s terrible that your enemy will not send you a mail in advance stating that they are about to attack you. And then again, those situations don’t go every time in favor of the ganker. There’s no better feeling that by your skills alone to gank the ganker.

100% of the GW2 pop did not want Open World PvP by that logic- as they came to this game knowing exactly what to expect?
I’d also never call someone a PvPer whos just out in the open world. Those are gankers and griefers sry- the quote of you attacking another player whos already infight show it.
It probably never got into you to wait till he is on equal footing with you and than attack him.
If you like Open PvP no problem with that- go to a game where you can have it, to a server where you can expect it.

CrazyDuck.4610:

goldi.3129:

CrazyDuck.4610:

goldi.3129:

Oglaf.1074:

Ganking is the lowest form of PvP there is.

I hope to never see it in Guild Wars 2.

Agreed. Open World PvP is -more often than not- the dream of the people who simply don’t want to fight fair.
Those people usually wait, until their victim is engaged in combat and than jump him.

If you have spend time on a WoW PvP Server in the days when you couldn’t visit certain instances as they were camped by complete raids, slaughtering everything in side, rogues spawn camping other players at the graveyard till they logged off or played a full loot game you know what kind of community such an environment usually breeds.
If thats what anyone wants, those people should search the adequate game- they are out there, but they are not anywhere as popular as the games where people play in what some name “carebearer” mode. That alone should be a clear sign, what the majority enjoys.

Honestly I like when I’m attacked by a person around my level because it takes more skill 1 on 1 then WvW. And those days with WoW made the game that much better and exciting! Call for reinforcements, take down the enemies. But again, “carebears” can’t see this logic.

Nope you don’t. What you describe is a duel.
That is not what is happening at open world PvP and has nothing to do with “carebears” but wannabes who get their kicks of ganking and griefing and only attacking when they KNOW that the odds are wastly in their favor. Usually the people who fail against even odds.
THAT is the majority of the people who play open world pvp- they don’t do it for the challenge or anything but to grief others. Take a look at a random PvP Server WoW Forum and you’ll see the threads that are up there and what character the people display.
And if you (like me) have played a few years on a PvP server you probably know the tone thats in the chat in the zones.

Again I understand your point of view, but PVP servers should still be an option. Open PVP brings more action, more excitement, and yes of course frustration. But I would rather be frustrated and trying to fight back, maybe get some guild members involved etc, then running around looking for things to do or relying on WvW which gets boring. The most fun in PVP I have had was open world, one guy gets griefed then brings his entire guild into play. Then the others do the same, it becomes “Guild wars” in an open field that isn’t structured and not knowing what to expect.

Guild wars in that meaning would mean for me (and the guilds running in WvWvW as seen in the last week of bracket 1 europe) that guilds challenge each other on equal meanings and equal footings in an even way. This game offers a lot of PvP that is -class balance and culling asside- usually on equal footings (thats what the wvw brackets are for to sort popwise etc).
In your example superior numbers would always be a heavy influecing factor. In a controlled environment you have equal fights that are based around tactics and skill- nothing more. Thats what competitive PvPers want.

CrazyDuck.4610:

goldi.3129:

Oglaf.1074:

Ganking is the lowest form of PvP there is.

I hope to never see it in Guild Wars 2.

Agreed. Open World PvP is -more often than not- the dream of the people who simply don’t want to fight fair.
Those people usually wait, until their victim is engaged in combat and than jump him.

If you have spend time on a WoW PvP Server in the days when you couldn’t visit certain instances as they were camped by complete raids, slaughtering everything in side, rogues spawn camping other players at the graveyard till they logged off or played a full loot game you know what kind of community such an environment usually breeds.
If thats what anyone wants, those people should search the adequate game- they are out there, but they are not anywhere as popular as the games where people play in what some name “carebearer” mode. That alone should be a clear sign, what the majority enjoys.

Honestly I like when I’m attacked by a person around my level because it takes more skill 1 on 1 then WvW. And those days with WoW made the game that much better and exciting! Call for reinforcements, take down the enemies. But again, “carebears” can’t see this logic.

Nope you don’t. What you describe is a duel.
That is not what is happening at open world PvP and has nothing to do with “carebears” but wannabes who get their kicks of ganking and griefing and only attacking when they KNOW that the odds are wastly in their favor. Usually the people who fail against even odds.
THAT is the majority of the people who play open world pvp- they don’t do it for the challenge or anything but to grief others. Take a look at a random PvP Server WoW Forum and you’ll see the threads that are up there and what character the people display.
And if you (like me) have played a few years on a PvP server you probably know the tone thats in the chat in the zones.

Pustulio.8207:

All of this get’s blown out the door, when people legitimately farm the mats to make the gifts.

It doesn’t. The value of the mats is still the same. Whether you use them for your gifts or sell them on the market, the value is the same. It is only your decission what you do with that value (trade it in the tp for gold or use it yourself). The only difference is the tp fees. The worth of the gifts doesn’t change with how you aquire them.

Ursan.7846:

goldi.3129:

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

Well, supply isn’t totally meaningless. There are many things in the world that people covet and crave simply due to their rarity. Also, low supply, even with low demand, means higher prices than high supply, low demand items. Venom sells for a good 30G. Which, while nothing compared to the other precursors, is still quite pricey when compared to other exotic tridents.

Again, both supply and demand influence prices.

What you mention are collectors items. I wouldn’t put those into the usual market cycle as they usually have another attribute beside being very rare (worn by someone famous, unique design/flaw that is not produced anymore etc etc.)
- Or a great Marketing campaign that perfects the AIDA principe. But that would create artificial demand again.

If I pull a teeth out and set it on ebay its unique- aka lowest supply possible. Would that influence the prize? Nope, as there is no demand for a teeth of mine Only if there is demand supply plays any role.

The prize for Venom would probably be a result of its property being a precursor. And the fact that (argumentable) some people are willing to pay 30g for it- otherwise if new Venoms came to the market you’d have a constant undercutting as the supply would grow with nill demand- till someone would say “yes thats the prize i’m willing to pay for it”.

CrazyDuck.4610:

lisamee.2408:

In gaming’s 15+ year history:

Consensual open world pvp and guild vs guild has been the most fun and popular with the majority. Or at least a separate server for it. I prefer the original concept. In my opinion, GW2 pvp using a strictly game controlled instanced scenario based gameplay is not as fun as open world player controlled.

But i do not think Anet will ever change their design of pvp/WvW, because its been a main feature of gw1 and gw2.

Thank you! And as for another post saying it wont “profit” for Anet. Some of the most popular games/servers in MMORPG currently are all PVP servers.

Examples of those please?

Oglaf.1074:

Ganking is the lowest form of PvP there is.

I hope to never see it in Guild Wars 2.

Agreed. Open World PvP is -more often than not- the dream of the people who simply don’t want to fight fair.
Those people usually wait, until their victim is engaged in combat and than jump him.

If you have spend time on a WoW PvP Server in the days when you couldn’t visit certain instances as they were camped by complete raids, slaughtering everything in side, rogues spawn camping other players at the graveyard till they logged off or played a full loot game you know what kind of community such an environment usually breeds.
If thats what anyone wants, those people should search the adequate game- they are out there, but they are not anywhere as popular as the games where people play in what some name “carebearer” mode. That alone should be a clear sign, what the majority enjoys.

Behellagh.1468:

goldi.3129:

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

We know that supply influences demand. We know that players desire/preferences also influence demand. We know that there are numerous other variables that influence demand. Demand is not limited to one factor.

Honestly I’ve never considered that rarity in supply could increase demand and therefore price. I’m not all that into the “numbered limited edition” market of collectibles or pay too much attention to what the Jones’ recently bought.

It doesn’t. See Ursans example above regarding the non desirable precursors. Same supply as the desired precursors but virtually no demand. Thus low prizes.

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

I know, I was just being ironic. The premise that rarity in supply can drive demand is simply silly. If there is little demand to start with, rarity of supply is meaningless.

I know, just took your quote to explain it in nonsarcasm

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

We know that supply influences demand. We know that players desire/preferences also influence demand. We know that there are numerous other variables that influence demand. Demand is not limited to one factor.

Honestly I’ve never considered that rarity in supply could increase demand and therefore price. I’m not all that into the “numbered limited edition” market of collectibles or pay too much attention to what the Jones’ recently bought.

It doesn’t. See Ursans example above regarding the non desirable precursors. Same supply as the desired precursors but virtually no demand. Thus low prizes.

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

Gasoline.2570:

Well of course you can then argue youll become a hero of tyria and accomplish it all when you buy 100 000gems.

Thats another case as you either accept the way Anet earns their money or don’t.
I’d say you’d be more a hero for Anet though if you’d throw that much money their way- which would result directly into being a hero of Tyria as well, as that money goes int the game again.

Mesket.5728:

goldi.3129:

You can get exotics anywhere you want, for karma, for tokens, for gold. With those exotics you can do any of the endgame content as well.

You want that legendary skin- thats the cosmetic grind that you either take willingly or don’t. I don’t have any disadvantages without a legendary or any real advantages with one.
I don’t have a legendary and don’t care to have one- if I did I would know from the beginning what the requirements of a legendary are and make the decision to either do the grind or not do it.

This was already discussed and pretty much both sides agreed that is purely cosmetic but the only remaining goal for “veteran” players. Not a real necessity until you make it one. Many, many would’ve already quit if they weren’t chasing this goal. It’s the last carrot on a stick for most players. You are going back a few pages in the discussion.

goldi.3129:

People complain about the gold grind- if they’d remove the gold grind and put other requirements into it like: “complete 5000 dungeons and kill 20k world invaders”, people would still complain- though they’d gotten what they want now, a fixed goal they can work on in time.

We complain that such reward promoted to be exclusive for players that did everything turns out to be quite the opposite, where players who really do everything are un-rewarded (and may never get one) and players who only repeat A and B for farming get the reward sooner making the whole concept of a Legendary weapon “to stand out as a truly master of Tyria” (quoting Anet) a joke. Even though it sounds ridiculous, having 50 points in Dungeon Hobby achievement sounds more likely for an adventurer than farm x amount of gold.

We are not discussing time, we are not discussing prices of the exotic required; we are discussing the way of getting one, how you achieve said goal it what bring concerns to most players.

I summed it up for you as we explained it in several threads and you always come back to the point. With no new arguments. And since I wanted to be ontopic and the topic is “buy the endgame” well not my fault that you jump directly to the legendary again. Endgame is more than a legendary.

As Ham said, it is pointless to discuss that with you- all you say is that you think that you should get a legendary by playing the game exactly as you are doing.

As to your quote of “be a hero of Tyria”. Well that is also only in your POV not the case.
You must (in theory, no mentioning JPS) defend your world against invaders, have to clear dungeons, participate in events and for a precursor (this is so you can put it lorewise right), either clear the world of much of its evil making it a safer place to life so no incennt gets jumped by exploding chickens(aka grind grind grind), try to reason with a supernatural being that you are worthy (aka play the mystic forge) or show your mastery of the tp (which IS a part of the game which is probably more difficult to master that get dungeon master etc etc as its the only thing you’ll NOT archieve eventually through time) aka demonstrate that you are brains and muscles and not only muscles.

There you have it, the current system makes you a hero of Tyria. You just don’t like the way of it.

You can get exotics anywhere you want, for karma, for tokens, for gold. With those exotics you can do any of the endgame content as well.

You want that legendary skin- thats the cosmetic grind that you either take willingly or don’t. I don’t have any disadvantages without a legendary or any real advantages with one.
I don’t have a legendary and don’t care to have one- if I did I would know from the beginning what the requirements of a legendary are and make the decision to either do the grind or not do it.

People complain about the gold grind- if they’d remove the gold grind and put other requirements into it like: “complete 5000 dungeons and kill 20k world invaders”, people would still complain- though they’d gotten what they want now, a fixed goal they can work on in time.

Pustulio.8207:

goldi.3129:

Oglaf.1074:

They need a totally new way to obtain the Precursors, plain and simple.

Why? Everyone can get a legendary eventually.

If everyone had one the name legendary would not be fitting.

Quote:

dev q&a november 16th quote: With Isaiah Cartwright:

The gap we’ve talked about is more the game in time we everyone to have achievable goals that players can look forward to. Legendary are very long term goals and we want to make sure they are layered in with other interesting goals a player can accomplished while on their way to finishing a legendary.

I specially highlighted the quote.
Source :
http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/qa-with-isaiah-cartwright/

Why, you ask?..because, it shouldn’t take any longer to get, than the “gifts” that go with it. I can name MANY people, that have been playing since LAUNCH, and crafted ALL THREE “gifts”, that have NOT received their precursor. No matter WHAT they do. Having precursors on an RNG system was a TERRIBLE idea, and NEEDS TO CHANGE…period.

If I work half the week am I surpised that saturday is still a bit off on wednesday?
They knew what they where up to when they started and that the precursor is a significant bit of the grind for a legendary.

Iehova.9518:

goldi.3129:

This is a prime example for the conspiracy talk in regards to the both most common samples, market manipulators and gold sellers.

“There is no conspiracy” is now a conspiracy. Whether or not “‘There is no conspiracy’ is a conspiracy” is a conspiracy is my question there.

So how come no one loves to talk about the price of precursors like Storm or Venom?

They’ve been manipulated as well, have no doubt about that.

Read the rest of my post and the second part of the part you quoted. Maybe you will understand what I meant.

And again the “oh they have been manipulated” conspiracy. Maybe- just like Vol said the prices have adjusted to the actual worth of the items?

Iehova.9518:

goldi.3129:

I kind of doubt that Anet has a cristall ball that can tell them who will forge the dusks and who won’t.

But I’m sure they got a crystal ball that shows which precursor goes into a legendary and which is being manipulated.

You are implying that everyone who buys a dusk does so as the last step in forging a legendary and immediately uses it.

No, I’m implying every single Dusk is used to make a Twilight eventually and is NOT flipped. That’s how it should be. But it isn’t.

But as someone already said, even the clear reply of John Smith is not enough for the conspiracy believers.

There is no conspiracy. Precursors get flipped. Gold sellers have 10+ of each precursor according to their spam. Currently the only reliable way of obtaining one is forking over huge amounts of dosh on the TP.

This is a prime example for the conspiracy talk in regards to the both most common samples, market manipulators and gold sellers.

Read the post of John Smith to get an answer about the control of gold sellers on the precursors.
Read the posts that mentioned that there is no profit to be made in flipping precursors (and if there is it is so small and during a large time span, that its not profitable for anyone seriously plaing the market).

Iehova.9518:

John Smith.4610:

Sorry, I didn’t have time right now to read the whole thread, but I’ll throw this at you. In the past 72 hours well over 30 dusks have sold to and from different individuals.

Whether or not all these Dusks ended up as Twilights is my question there.

I kind of doubt that Anet has a cristall ball that can tell them who will forge the dusks and who won’t.
You are implying that everyone who buys a dusk does so as the last step in forging a legendary and immediately uses it.

But as someone already said, even the clear reply of John Smith is not enough for the conspiracy believers.

+1 to Ursans post- there is no grind in attaining a full endgame viable gear.

If you want the cosmetic gimmicks of a legendary you either accept that its currently the ultimate long time goal and put the required effort into it and work toward it- or you don’t, but if you go the road to a legendary you know how long and bumpy its going to be.

You can buy gems with gold ingame. You don’t need them- expect if you want more bank tabs or the last inventory slot. The rest is mostly cosmetics.

The best way to earn money is to play the TP (trade post). If you don’t have any experience or don’t like playing markets/economies there are certain dungeon runs in the higher levels that reward a good amount of money.

In general I wouldn’t spend too much time bothering your finances on your first play through- enjoy the leveling experience, complete the zones (you get level appropriate rewards for those) and collect everything you see on your way to 80.
Even at 80 a full set of exotics is not very expensive.

Aralon.7501:

Some precursors are manipulated some aren’t. The Colossus is manipulated, a week ago 11 were listed for 500g. Suddenly someome bought them all, 0 supply. Now they are getting relisted for 620.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29170

Look at that and than at your post

Unspecified.9142:

Esplen.3940:

Unspecified.9142:

-snip-

The reason why we ignored your post is because you unintentionally advocated us. There’s a reason why the people who went to argue your reasoning were the people whose side you were on. I don’t see how your points go and benefit the side that says Precursors lolomfgneed2beasier

You can easily get 1 Charged Lodestone a day and in 100 days you’ll be done. That’s a long arduous process but every day you KNOW you are making progress.
.

On average you make 1 loadstone per hour. You can also make 6g per hour.
There I also know I am making progress and I will be finnished in the same time span.

That it feels more unrewarding for you to collect the gold- its effectively the same. If you grind for gold to buy precursors or for lodestones.
I’d even go as far as to say that grinding the gold is more enjoyable as there would be many ways (beside the tp) to grind.
Lodestones are only dropped in certain areas.

Esplen.3940:

Minion of Vey.4398:

Are you certain they’re being relisted?

People do buy several a day.

I bought a Spark for over 500g about a week ago with a buy order. It’s gone, I made an Incinerator with it.

Quite frankly if someone has the kind of money to be fiddling with flipping precursors they could do a much higher return in other areas. Goofing around with buying precursors for 600g to put them up for 800g and be undercut 15 times isn’t exactly a prime way to use money.

The amount of profit with that can easily be done elsewhere. That’s why it’s silly to say that all the precursors are owned by market manipulators. If they were, they’d be listed a LOT higher.

Its a lot easier to blame someone for high prices than to accept that rare items like precursors have a high value resulting from medium demand and very low supply.

If all the precursor markets were controlled by goldsellers- as a lot of the people here mention- I am sure Anet would be happy.
They would simply have to check those who put up sell listings for the precursors again and again and ban them again and again. Would save them a ton of work.

From the replies of John Smith in this forum you can see that he is watching the precursor sells/buys actively.

AreUMadBro.6907:

goldi.3129:

AreUMadBro.6907:

How many Dusks you guys can see at TP? 0. Yes, told ya. Now lets see what price they will make us pay(and yes, whoever is the group doing this, its a group that owns bot accounts)

So everyone who can buy a dusk is a botter now.
Thankfully we have people like you who collect the evidence of who is botting and who isn’t.

Men, you need reading classes. Or glasses. Maybe both. If u have a twilight or a dusk, nice. But sell on TP its a different thing. I myself have over 600g and I dont consider myself a botter. LOL

Was there any point you wanted to bring with those lines? Shall I pull out the <sarcasm> tags for you the next time?

AreUMadBro.6907:

How many Dusks you guys can see at TP? 0. Yes, told ya. Now lets see what price they will make us pay(and yes, whoever is the group doing this, its a group that owns bot accounts)

So everyone who can buy a dusk is a botter now.
Thankfully we have people like you who collect the evidence of who is botting and who isn’t.

plasmacutter.2709:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The problem is you can break apart the other gifts and slowly buy the parts you need. For the precursors people need to save up a lump sum, and most people don’t have the self control to do that. They spend spend spend, instead of saving. If you actually have the other 2 gifts then you are capable of getting your precursor, you just need to stop spending and start saving.

HAHAHAHAHAHA…. the precursors rise much faster than most peoples’ gold income. You can have all the self control on the world and NEVER reach the price of a precursor unless you’re a basement dwelling NEET or abusing the cash shop liberally.

And some day they will stop rising because they are at the value people think they are willing to pay?

Great Post, thanks for the overview!

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Iures.2894:

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

My post directly above yours addressed the TP side of things.

If there was an NPC that sold precursors for a SET amount, this whole issue would already have been alleviated already.

There is an NPC. It’s called the Trading Post and he sells it for 800g.

Sarcasm aside, you realize that the analogy being made to yours had no unfairness. If you spend your money gambling… you’re gambling. Get over the fact that you lost money.

If you buy a lotto ticket every week, you aren’t guaranteed to win the lotto.

If your friend buys one lotto ticket and you’ve bought one every week since the beginning of the lotto, and your friend wins the lotto, is that unfair?

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

The whole game is a lottery.
Nearly every single aspect is a roll in the background, be it if the boss 1hits you or if you loot an exotic or play the forge lottery.
I can do 20 runs with the exact same dungeon group. At the end of those runs not everyone will have earned the same in regards of mob/boss loot itemwise.
So you will always have it that player a has other results after doing the exact same thing for the exact same time as player b.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Oglaf.1074:

The Precursor is the only thing when it comes to Legendaries that leaves you truly at the mercy of the RNG.

Really? So getting Mystic Clovers doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG? Getting stacks upon stacks upon stacks of T6 materials doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?

Or is it that the RNG on THOSE items is more acceptable to you? Could it be that the RNG in place for a highly desired, highly rare, singular component for a Legendary weapon SHOULD have a greater amount of RNG associated with it? Are you mad because it’s priced out of YOUR reach? Have you thought about why YOU even want a Legendary Weapon? Is it so that you can show it off to your buddies? Is it because it’s better than the current Best in Slot weapon? Because it’s not.

Legendary weapons are NOT for everyone. They’re just not. Maybe if you weren’t SO focused on a single item in the game, you would be happier. Isn’t there anything else you want, or want to do?

What happens when you DO get your Legendary Weapon and no longer have anything to work toward? Will you leave the game because you’re “done”? If so, perhaps you should leave the game now because getting a Legendary will just end up being a waste of your time.

+1 from me as well. I started a post with the exact same samples ( that everything is rng) but didn’t want to go into the detail. When I look at the last answer of oglaf I know why.

Kudos to you!

Oglaf.1074:

Strawman-argument; the last resort of the ignorant. Have you really nothing else to say, Esplen? There’s no defending the current Precursor system, and you just proved it.

I provided a direct quote from Anet that Legendaries are a long time achievement. What more is needed?
There is no need to defend the current system, just because some people feel they should get an easy legendary.
You decide if you are willing to put the effort into a legendary. If you aren’t that is your choice.

@iehova you will also get the gold necessary to either play the forge lottery or simply buy one eventually as well.

Oglaf.1074:

They need a totally new way to obtain the Precursors, plain and simple.

Why? Everyone can get a legendary eventually.

If everyone had one the name legendary would not be fitting.

Quote:

dev q&a november 16th quote: With Isaiah Cartwright:

The gap we’ve talked about is more the game in time we everyone to have achievable goals that players can look forward to. Legendary are very long term goals and we want to make sure they are layered in with other interesting goals a player can accomplished while on their way to finishing a legendary.

I specially highlighted the quote.
Source :
http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/qa-with-isaiah-cartwright/

Same happens when they introduce new recipes, ingredients who were before cheap, spike up. There are so many changes to the game that affect market prizes…

Also noone hinders you to stock up on karmavendor ingredients nowadays in hope that they will someday become very rare as well…

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Syeria.4812:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Syeria.4812:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Edit: Syeria, that is why I said “Most experienced players only need Ar for JADE MAW, etcetcetc”

Pays to read the replies you quote.

So what you’re saying is they need ascended items to do fractals 20+ then. Gotcha.

Pays to think your logic through before trying to attack others with it.

So cute to see someone grasping desperatly after straws.

I said most experienced players only need Ar for Jade maw etcetcetc, I never said It couldn’t be done without AR, Im curious how do you think people reached 50+ in fractal level pre-patch.

Pays to only get involved in discussions you actually have some knowledge about, buddy

Looks like you’re the sad one just making up things to try cover your mistakes. Too bad for you no one with any experience will buy it. Nice attempt to try paint others as “just not knowing enough” though.

You dun kittened up. Get over it and let it go.

Speaking of paint, you are doing a great job at painting yourself into a corner here Syeria..

As for “experienced” players beliving it, experienced fractal players don’t need to belive it, they already KNOW it from experience.

Seems I let myself get a bit to derailed into this fractal debate, My point however is that no item is truely essential, as such saying that the current legendary/precursor prices are fine because they arnt “essential” is pretty much incorrect.

Goldi, you have made no arguement that would in any way show that I am infact wrong, If you want to ignore me because you don’t agree with my point of view, that is perfectly fine with me, will prob keep this thread from derailing further.

However I would love to know why you consider jeans and a shirt to be essential.

Try going to work in a potato sack and you will see it?
And the jeans are just an example for something easly obtained and required.

And my argument about luxury still stands as of the definition by luxury posted in this thread that you have completely ignored.
And sorry but your point of “nothing in the game is essential” is just hypocracy and really ends every discussion because it makes- like i stated and provided with real life examples- no sense at all.
As after that definition in the real world everything beside air, water and bread would be luxury as well. That is philosphy and not an argument that you can in any means say when I state that legendaries are a luxury because they fit 2 points of the afore mentioned definition. That was my last try to make you see that what you wrote is… what you wrote…

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Syeria.4812:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Edit: Syeria, that is why I said “Most experienced players only need Ar for JADE MAW, etcetcetc”

Pays to read the replies you quote.

So what you’re saying is they need ascended items to do fractals 20+ then. Gotcha.

Pays to think your logic through before trying to attack others with it.

So cute to see someone grasping desperatly after straws.

I said most experienced players only need Ar for Jade maw etcetcetc, I never said It couldn’t be done without AR, Im curious how do you think people reached 50+ in fractal level pre-patch.

Pays to only get involved in discussions you actually have some knowledge about, buddy

Edit: Exactly goldi, you CAN go to work dressed in a potato sack, and a suit by a famous designer is no less essential then a suit made in mass at a factory.

Erm yes. Is it so hard to admit that you were wrong? You are only tightening the sling even further… Time to just ignore you sry.
But here is one for you to think about.
The suit (I didn’t bring up) is the luxury. Jeans and a shirt (which would be the equivalent to ecotics, everyone can get them for a normal price here) are the essentials there.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

“Try doing fractals level 20+ in blues.”

you were being a smartass, and then get upset when you don’t get a “polite” discussion?

Also you seem to get insulted by the smallest things, quite often:

“I also will refrain from now on to answer posts that are just based around insults and emotions and completely lacking arguments.”

Infact, you even brought up lacking arguements in that one, which is ironic since you seem to be quite guilty of doing that yourself

Honestly if you act like a jerk in your replies, don’t expect me to handle you with silk gloves,

Edit: Syeria, that is why I said “Most experienced players only need Ar for JADE MAW, etcetcetc”

Pays to read the replies you quote.

Ok once and for all to show you the level on which you argument.

You CAN do everything in whites- so in your definition nothing would be essential.
You CAN go to work dressed in a potato sack- so everything beyond that would not be essential. It makes no sense to even try to argue on that level. And you might want to read your own post that was the base for my response you called “smartass”.
Ah well not worth it.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

What makes you think I havnt already? there is absolutely no reason why you wouldnt be able to, you highly overrestimate the diffrence blue – exotic makes.

Hell even been in runs that did ac with only a weapon equipped..

The only items that are even semi essential are agony resistant, and even then it ONLY applies to jade maw, and even then 1 person with the required AR is enough to pull you trough.

If your whole reasoning for keeping legendarys at a absurd gold price is that it isnt essential, I seriously suggest you come up with a hell of a lot better arguement then that non-sense.

Err. Yes. I will not argue on that level of what is essential and what is luxury with you as it obviously makes no sense.
Again I say read the thread and what I said, maybe you will see what I meant – as a polite discussion seems not possible with you.