Guild Wars 2

kyubi.3620:

I dont think you have the correct definition of the word bad. The build work as intended altrought it is not appropriate for a player created situation wich only exist in the so called player mind.

Also did Anet actualy do any promotion of this on their main site? Not that i recall and the main page annoucement is prety much blank about it. They are way to busy announcing wvw and spvp tournament. Fact is they likely dont care if you do a third party tournament but dont disaprove it either.

As said its hosted by DnT not by anet.

They sponsored it with 14,000 gems in prize support, and promoted it on social media. You can try to minimize that however you like, but it won’t make you any more correct. You seem to have a habit of making a statement, get proved wrong, and then double down on that statement by finding some bit of minutiae to quibble over while still being wrong at the main point. Stop being so stubborn.

kyubi.3620:

I dont see any Anet post in this topic save for the one saying it should be in the dungeon forum. So how does this make it any official especialy since the tread maker is a player. Proving your point yet? Because it looks like unoficial stuff to me. A third party site making contest etc doesnt necesarily means Anet is in the plot.

Also small reminder,
Anet has nerfed many dungeon shortcut
Anet has nerfed various dungeon running build in the past in some case litteraly ruining them to the point of behing unusable.
Anet has nerfed critical damage recently and might do it again
Im not so sure Anet aproves of stacking in the corner and avoiding all their well planned mechanics when fighting bosses.

They may not be firmly against it but they sure aint helping speedclear dungeon runners right now. Also bad build is only true depending on the point of view over the situation. You cant consider a build bad just because it doesnt rely on a glass cannon principe far from that it is of poor choice for the circonstance but it doesnt mean its wrong by default.

Also you should try and use more words then just ’’bad’’.

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/515890659186978816

@GuildWars2 · Sep 27
The Fall 2014 Dungeon Speed Clear Open Tournament, hosted by DnT, is now live! – http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt ^JD

I don’t care what you think of my opinion of bad builds or how I arrive at them being bad. This entire thread is you crying that random stuff like Spirit Weapons and MM necros arent as good as meta builds and you wish they were. Get over it, in every game ever there has been good builds and bad builds, welcome to MMOs.

kyubi.3620:

Speedrun in itself is an abomination and i think we all know what Anet thinks of it.

They support it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Announcing-Fall-2014-Dungeon-Speed-Clear-Open

Your point is bad. You can use bad builds and complete all the instances in GW2 just like in GW1. You can’t expect bad builds to be as good as the good builds were in either game. If you were happy with your bad builds in GW1 fine, I don’t get why you can’t be happy with them in GW2.

Mesket.5728:

You can’t really tell since GW2 has the same encounters every single time… nothing is random so there is no improvisation. You can’t tell the difference between someone who is really good at playing and someone who just learned that particular encounter.

Well thats not true at all in PvP, and hardly true in PvE. If you add up all the experienced dungeon speed clear players who main a Guardian, all of them know the encounters. Yet some are still clearly better than the others despite equal experience in the instances. If your theory was right, everyone who has run an instance 100 times would be equally good to someone who has also run it 100 times. If your theory was correct someone who ran it 200 times would be far superior to someone who has only run it 100 times, yet actual experience says otherwise, therefore you must be wrong somewhere in your analysis.

phys.7689:

hybrid.5027:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

The rest of the legendary process works perfectly as a long-term goal: assemble the gifts bit by bit, one by one, over whatever time frame works for you (even if it’s a year or more), and then you get to the precursor and you have to grind gold, either to pay the Toilet or to pay someone much luckier than you. That’s where the whole thing falls apart.

You need 250 of each t6 mat. When a t6 mat drops in a dungeon you are 1/2000th closer to that goal.

Dusk costs 1500. When you complete a dungeon and 1g drops, you are 1/1500th closer.

I don’t see the difference. It’s incremental progression. The only thing I can think of is the belief that inflation is constantly moving the goal post, but that hasn’t been particularly true for the last two months and 2 months is plenty of time to get gold for a Dusk if that was what you desired.

the price of dusk changes over time, you are not 1/1500 closer to your goal when you complete a dungeon. by the time you get 1500 it maybe be 2k, by the time you get 2k it maybe 2.2k.

only once you surpass the earning speed of inflation do you make progress, and even then how much progress you make is still relative.

someone who earned one gold a day in the beginning of the game could get a precursor in like 120-250 days. someone who earns one gold a day now needs an infinite amount of days because in the last 90 days, dusk has gone up 120 gold. and that is the difference/problem with high price precursors

Wow. I even addressed you bad point premptively when I mentioned how the price hasnt really risen in the last two months and you STILL went with it anyway. did you fail to read it? Did you fail to believe it?

So I’ll say it again; the price of Dusk has been stable for over 60 days. 60 days is more than enough time to get that much gold without really going out of your way to do so. So now whats your excuse?

kyubi.3620:

Long as the viable option killed people in pvp i think it can be called good build especialy if it can down the enneny monk.

What does PvP have to do with this topic? You’re complaining about PvE metas, I prove your point about GW1 grossly wrong, and you come back with PvP?

Not relevant because the meta in PvP in gw1 was just as strict. If your team wanted to hold halls or win GvGs high up on the ladder, crappy builds were not part of the equation.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

The rest of the legendary process works perfectly as a long-term goal: assemble the gifts bit by bit, one by one, over whatever time frame works for you (even if it’s a year or more), and then you get to the precursor and you have to grind gold, either to pay the Toilet or to pay someone much luckier than you. That’s where the whole thing falls apart.

You need 250 of each t6 mat. When a t6 mat drops in a dungeon you are 1/2000th closer to that goal.

Dusk costs 1500. When you complete a dungeon and 1g drops, you are 1/1500th closer.

I don’t see the difference. It’s incremental progression. The only thing I can think of is the belief that inflation is constantly moving the goal post, but that hasn’t been particularly true for the last two months and 2 months is plenty of time to get gold for a Dusk if that was what you desired.

Some things apply to both pve and pvp, some only one but in no particular order…

1. Micro skill
2. Ability to mentally manage your cool downs. Knowing when a key skill on your other weaponset will be off cool down by memory is key.
3. Muscle memory for all weapon skills and utilities. Being able to use your stun breaks or blocks instinctively without having to consciously think about it.
4. quick ability to learn from mistakes. If you get killed by a boss who has a skill with a long wind up that you should be able to dodge, how quickly you learn that tell is important.
5. Knowing the standard openings for the meta builds for every class. In pvp the majority of players are going to use cookie cutter builds with cookie cutter openings. Knowing exactly what skills they are going to use in what order should give you a big advantage.

Current Warrior Meta…

video: http://youtu.be/Tm_NpGd48os?list=UU2XVi6QB_uuPFaqq5vzMvAw

text: http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/12497977-dnt-warrior-build-9914

kyubi.3620:

Ive played guild wars 1 before and trust me you can prety much make a LOT of viable combination around cross class specs. Yes GW is a MMO too and from the same developers nonetheless.

That one build with a specific weapon does good damage is no excuse for other build not to be able to perform just as well. The game isnt conflicting with anything the way people minmax every scrap of stat is. Sure at this point you may go run in pugs cept people tire of behing ignored and refused in party and either leave the game or play your way wich ends up with prety much a blend farming game (i didnt buy a world of warcraft clone). The guys up there didnt give us 6 trait line each with 6 slot as well as about 30 skill per profession just so we all run the same stupid build they intended us to create original stuff and work around with the traits.
When it comes to the point of a single build we no longuer are playing guild wars but just another wow clone not to mention custom build creation is suposed to be guild wars strong suit.

If for exemple a guy choose for instance to run a confusion mesmer build in pvp he shouldnt just be able to run it but to also kill people with it. As far as it is right now running a confusion build as mesmer is prety much trashy and im not even talking about it in pve where the mobs basicaly takes next to no damage from it.

As a small reminder GW 1 didnt had stat it had skill point and based on the number of skill point in a specific line the skill of the line would deal bigger or lesser damage. Issue here is that all skill are automaticaly considered as having decent effectiveness and that running a heal or a buff skill with a full damager set is practicaly the same as running it as a cleric set cept with a +90% to all damaging moves.

In short run x or your build is doomed to fail? Every trait and stat should be as viable as one another and traits that just wont serve any purpose should go or be largely improved.

If a build is possible to run it should also be viable to run. The state of builds such as Summoned weapon guardians, Siphon necromancer, Confusion mesmer, Beastmaster ranger, gadget enginer, signet elementalist and rifle warrior is simply unexcusable.

The difference is in GW1 you had heroes to carry you through content and your terrible builds didn’t get called out by Ogden or Livia. Believe me, there were bad builds and good builds in GW1. GW1 had a speed running meta and people were expected to run good builds there.

Bad builds in GW2 are just as viable as your bad GW1 builds were, the difference is in GW2 another human will see just how bad your bad build is and probably isn’t interested in putting up with it. You can run a spirit weapon guardian in GW2 PVE. You could run a PvE Mes/Ele with 16 Fast Casting and 12 Water Magic in GW1. Both are about equally effective in dungeon running in their respective games. The difference is that in GW1 you played solo, in GW2 you play with humans.

Don’t over-complicate it. The more rules/categories/systems you implement the harder and less fun it is for you to organize and the results won’t be worth the effort.

I don’t understand your point. There are a lot of Twilights/Sunrises/Eternity in game. People are making them. They are within reach of the people that are making them. If your complaint is that they are out of reach of extreme casuals, well, that has always been true and is nothing new. Its perfectly fine to have rewards in the game that are time gated / skill gated / gear gated / grind gated / luck gated so long as alternatives exist, and thankfully in the case of Dusk alternatives exist.

kyubi.3620:

note i finished the fractals lvl 45 as a warrior never bothered to come back in there because i got sick of behing constantly told what to play. I mean look at that i made that character to run rifle and now im running a greatsword robotically doing instance

So basically what you’re saying is your roleplaying choices are conflicting with the actual game. Tough luck dude. The game isn’t balanced around people’s roleplaying choices. When you say that everything should be equally viable you sound very naive like you haven’t ever played an MMO before and how no idea that such a concept is impossible.

FWIW, there is not a single profession that has an “always best build” in PVE. Traits are meant to be changed on the fly based on the encounter and what your team composition lacks.

Artemi.1437:

Also, from my understanding: The current problem is more about enough participants and not about enough viewers, as they are already plenty?

This is correct. there are probably about 12-16 dedicated speed run guilds of which only about half are active enough to put a team together and practice if they wanted to. So getting guilds who are active and interested and have the availability to play all weekend on a particular day is tough. The only place to expand is to have more casual guilds, or non-famous speed clear guilds. For whatever reason a very different set of guilds participated in the fractal tournament, which required no less amount of practice to be successful.

I think part of the solution is some kind of unique reward for all entrants like the pvp llama mini, but thats something Anet would have to offer not something we could do. The other solution is simply critical mass, if we have 24 teams and only 6 are speed clear guilds by defintion some if the less hardcore guilds will advance decently far in the tournament.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

hybrid.5027:

I’ll be happy to help you with any advice you desire to make organizing it easier.

Any ideas on requirements on entry? (I’m at a loss for what could be a decent enough metric)

I would think about some captaincy system where you have people from speed clear guilds or [noob] mentors as captains and then fill the rest of the teams in with literally anyone who applies. This way at least one person knows the dungeons.

I would open up registration to anyone who can commit to the date and time. Make an EU and NA side. Randomly distribute the entrants to the captains the morning of the event.

I’ll be happy to help you with any advice you desire to make organizing it easier.

As other people have astutely mentioned, support is everything in this game. Reflects, Stability, CC, blinds, condition removal, DPS buffs these are all things every good dungeon team does. Either you aren’t aware of that, or you are aware and choosing to ignore it.

No, what I think we have here is a desire for someone to play a do-nothing midliner build that can sit back doing nothing but spam buffs/debuffs. That isn’t this game. Everyone on the team in this game is expected to contribute 1/5th of the DPS, Support and Control. No free lunches. No midliners hiding out spamming buffs. That isn’t this game. It won’t be this game. It shouldn’t be this game.

Half of our members are banned on this forum and we don’t want to sift through silly comments like “lol next turneyment you use make each grup use a ranger lol” from people who didn’t participate and didnt watch.

Johnathan Ralston.5871:

I need it for bleeds, condi damage and more critical chance

I thought about doing that for an additional 160 power or putting it back into the final trait line for +3% damage on target per boon. (I do that occasionally)

That trait, with that build. will generate like 1 or 2 stacks of bleed on average. Thats basically nothing and not worth it. Second 50 precision is 2.2% crit chance. Also marginal.

1 stack of bleed + 2% crit chance <<<<<<<<<<<, 160 power and 50 Toughness.

Its not even close.

Mizenhauer.6713:

I understand, I would too. I enjoy the lesser run paths as well, despite the poorer rewards. What I mean is the manner, the thing that, in part, elicits a smile in other mmo gamers when they look at our dungeons.

Again, these dungeons are 2 years old. How faceroll were the vanilla wow dungeons two years in? I’m sure there was a time when those vanilla dungeon were challenging and took long time to complete. But after two years, even the hardest content goes on farm.

The dungeons in this game are easy because we solved it. We know the best gear, the best builds and the best tactics for all the dungeon paths. If people from other games watch speedruns now and think how easy the dungeons are they are deluding themselves. Go back and watch people run arah in September 2012 and we can discuss how easy it was. Videos exist from then that will show you exactly how non-trivial they were even for “good” players. I assure you if I watched a vanilla wow 5 man dungeon speedrun two years after launch I would note how “easy it is.”

Feedback thread. http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/15909451-fall-tournament-post-mortem/page/1

Please keep posts constructive and on topic.

Imagine how much better it would be if you took that random point from Arms and put it in defense for Armored Attack. You should have thought that through.

Mizenhauer.6713:

But you need to understand that the reason we play dungeons in such a stupid manner is because it’s the best way to get the gold at the end.

I believe most of us ran dungeons for fun back before it was the most profitable thing you could be doing and would continue to run them even if it stopped being so.

First Round starts 11am EDT (GMT -5) at www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

Also, Fat Girls Can’t [LoS] had to withdraw due to an emergency so the bracket has changed a bit since they were the #2 seed.

Good luck to everyone!

Artemis Thuras.8795:

hybrid.5027:

How many times per hour can you do that Arah chain? How many times per hour can you do the balth temple?

As described you made 8g in one hour. And the person you’re quoting said “without selling the drops or salvaging tokens for ecto.”

Dwayna.
Grenth.
Melandru.
Lyssa (maybe not so much).
Assuming each gave 3g each (last twice grenth gave more like 6g+ in the 6 minute farm at the end alone).
All of which I could do in the other 40 minutes of my hour.

I’d only need to make 2g in 40 minutes to match the quoted dungeon gold. The drops in dungeons aren’t going to add that much more to the value of the runs, compared to what repeating temples ( or other champ farms) net.

You can’t do all those on demand. The chances of all (or even many) of those events coming up in a given hour is slim to none. And if they did come up, the chances being able to do all of them in an hour is slim to none.

FWIW, if I sold everything I go from a dungeon tour, you’re looking at 60g in 3 hours.

LordByron.8369:

P.S: predetermined rotations are not easy, its just something should be in a rythm game and not in a mmorpg…they get easy fast and thus boring.

Except every MMO ever had DPS rotations since the beginning of the genre. Since rotations are a foundation of what an MMO is… it makes everything you said completely wrong.

How many times per hour can you do that Arah chain? How many times per hour can you do the balth temple?

As described you made 8g in one hour. And the person you’re quoting said “without selling the drops or salvaging tokens for ecto.”

Some professions have harder rotations than others (D/F ele, engineer) certainly but people who say that rotations are easy to get perfect and dodge perfectly are, quite frankly, not likely doing either perfectly themselves.

The warrior rotation (2-4-5-swap-2-3-4-5-auto-auto-2-3-swap-2-4-auto and so on) is not exceptionally challenging, but when you realize that dodging at the wrong time and interrupting your 100b or your axe chain is a fairly large dps hit part of the skill of having good dps is being able to maintain near perfect rotations while also avoiding damage.

Anyone who says that its easy to have perfect rotations and perfectly avoid all avoidable damage at the same time is either among the game’s elite players or is a liar. this is why Goku and Purple Miku have lupi warrior solo times so far ahead of what most other people do: they get near perfect rotations without dying. Everyone else has to take their foot off the gas and play conservatively in order to avoid dying, and as a result their DPS is less.

You guys should go run aetherpath with each other every day.

http://challonge.com/GW2SCO

Bracket set!

Preliminary Round 11am EDT (GMT -5): www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

Intricacy [iV] vs Cool Kidz Club [Club]
Warriors Still [OP] vs Snow Crows 2 [SC2]
No Feedback [NoFB] vs More Pewpew Less [QQ]

Yes, I agree. Guild Wars 2 needs more floor switches to hit and puzzles in the dungeons. Those are very popular things.

Mad Queen’s ideal MMO:

-single player RPG map layouts. Clearly practical.
-Boss fights are as slow and boring as ____ Souls.
-Every boss mechanic is telegraphed with an insanely slow very visible wind-up with a red dodge indicator over his head that flashes when you should dodge AND an audible “I AM NOW LAUNCHING MY MELEE ATTACK DODGE IN 3 SECONDS” hint.

Sounds great!

100% True Facts:

-DPS is all that matters
-Fights are so fast that control and support are meaningless
-As a result 5 ele and 5 thief teams control every speed clear record and are the only team comps people want on LFG

3 hours left to register and we have 11 teams. One more team would be nice, if for nothing else than bracket cleanliness.

Eviscerate currently hits with the base damage no matter how much adrenaline you had when you used it.

Ropechef.6192:

i think advertising in a manner of speaking is at fault somewhat as well.

The forums only reach so many people.

We advertised on forums, reddit, twitter, twitch and youtube. I personally reached out to the leaders of every speed clear guild to see what their plans were. If you have more suggestions I would love to hear. We do currently only have 7 teams., but if you add in all the teams who entered but had to withdraw for various reasons we would be at 12 right now, which would be a fine number.

I think the big issue is that a few of the guilds that participated last time (like Virtual Squirrels) have scheduling issues. A few have hurt feels. A few no longer exist, or are in the process of dying, and a few were simply too disinterested or too lazy to field a team. I still think we may get another team or two, but no idea.

I would say axebow is still the #2 build. I don’t see the gs or mace variants having definite superiority.

Restaurants are anti-cooking because they discourage people from doing their food preparation themselves.

Essence Snow.3194:

What is the way they intend it?

Dusk = ((Effort + Time)*Luck)/Patience

Melee classes require decent gap closers to be effective. Gap closers can be gap openers when used in reverse. Much QQ.

Not so much that people are lazy, its that certain dungeon paths provide no special incentive to bring ele besides Might stacking. If you can run a better team comp (for the path) without an ele because of PS then its worth thinking about.

That’s a serious problem if true. If 916 = 4% crit chance and now 926 = 4% crit chance that’s a real nerf. I suppose it’s offset by 10 extra Power and Ferocity though.

You will see PS being used in record runs this meta. Feel free to disbelieve.

PS is great for stacking Might when you have any of the following scenarios…

1. No ele with strength runes in group. Even a single scepter/* ele with strength runes is sufficient to render PS redundant.

2. No ele and less than 3 warriors. 3x warriors with For Great Justice and one dropping a fire field with banners in it is sufficient Might. If you have no ele and 2 or less warriors it will be a struggle.

3. Not enough organization to blast fire fields. You can get 25 Might with a 1w, 1g, 1nec, 1ranger, 1 mesmer group so long as everyone is organized enough to blast a fire field. However, if the team is lazy and unorganized that group will struggle with Might.

As far as PS goes I would run 050603 because with Fast Hands you can at least retain the same DPS rotation and playstyle of the meta dps build. If forced to solo something (everyone else dies at lupicus for example) you won’t be crucially kitten.

Also want to add, one week left to register!

Daroska.9427:

2012 had it better, with less restrictive mindsets and a more casual attitude.
More openness to the individual, rather than adherence to a certain Batman quote.

Yeah wasn’t it way better when everyone was completely ignorant of how to play well and everything was super frustrating and the rewards were terrible?

“Classic” as if we haven’t been speed running these dungeons since August 2012 and its some new thing.

I believe GWSCR.com will have a policy regarding racial skills in record runs which would carry over to this tournament rules too. However, even if they don’t this one will be banned unless it’s fixed, and if it is fixed nobody is going to use it anyway.

Also we have 8 teams and the field is shaping up to be pretty good and competitive. Still waiting to see a few more guilds sign up who should definitely be fielding a roster.

Lastly, one of our sponsors Enjin, have offered each guild that enters 45 days free advanced hosting for every guild who enters. I know a few guilds have their site hosted by enjin already and I’m sure 45 free days of hosting would be appreciated. For those that don’t use the coupon or not, your choice but if you were looking to have a website thats easy to run and comes with a VOIP server and forum modules built in enjin would be a good choice especially with 45 days free.

I was saving up for a Ferrari. I got halfway to the retail price, and then I spent the money I was saving on lottery tickets hoping to win the rest. Now I have no money. Woe is me?

The doors aren’t very closed if you can read it, AMIRITE?