Guild Wars 2

DonQuack.9025:

Im so torn. Its not only that he is bad. It is that he is berserker and bad and quite abrasive.
I mean. Lists " dps only" lfg Insta kicks necro/rangers/engi. rages on teammates when he dies. lots of sarcastic demeaning chat.

I thought people who did lots of mj were supposed to be ultra chill.

You don’t need to have a talk, not now anyway. The polite thing to do is wait until the next rage / unchill episode he does. At that point you say, “hey bro, you have to chill out with that attitude, you’re making people mad and you’re in no position to be overly critical about people’s play.” If he tries to argue with you, you can politely but bluntly inform him that he either needs to act like an adult and treat people with respect or you will replace him in your group.

Brown.8560:

hybrid.5027:

You can do the same thing with Full berserker and two-three pieces of Soldiers/Knights/Celestial gear without totally gimping your DPS. You don’t need to overload on Toughness. You need just enough to hold aggro. That means every piece of Toughness you equip beyond the necessary minimum is quite unnecessarily prolonging the fight.

I think a lot of people in this discussion are still sort of missing the point. This clerics build is simply one possible way to play the game that I find to be effective. No one is claiming that it’s the fastest. This idea of swapping out every piece of gear except the bare minimum in order to go faster is essentially the spirit of the zerk meta.

The last video shows a sub 3 minute mossman trio at level 50. I would not call that “totally gimping” our dps. You’ll also notice that 20% of that fight is in bear/leopard form. It doesn’t matter if you get bad RNG. The run also doesn’t totally fall to kitten when someone makes a mistake (this happens to me a lot in full zerk trios).

Or, you know, your team could keep the boss crippled or chilled (very easy to do at mossman especially thanks to ghost pepper poppers) and when you run low on cool downs you just backpedal slightly faster than he can walk.

Yes there are many ways to skin a cat. Ghost pepper poppers is certainly one of them, and many people use it. Personally, I think ghost pepper poppers is a lousy nourishment, especially if you’re pushing zerk meta. If dps and speed were the only things that mattered, why are you giving up 10% dps (vs dragon breath buns) when so many classes can chill/cripple/immobilize “for free?”

Any method whereby the boss is dead and you are not is viable. No one is saying clerics guardian is non-viable.

The argument is thus…

Some people run every red light, don’t stop at stop signs and speed as fast as they can. They sometimes crash or get a ticket but once they get there, they are usually there fast. (Full berserker)

Other people purposely drive incredibly slowly, cautiously and safely. These people only take right turns because crossing left is incrementally more dangerous than taking a right turn. They will get to the destination but it will take longer. (Full clerics)

The last group drives at a moderate pace, safely but they accelerate in the straighaways to a very high speed. They will turn left when its optimal. They always signal before turning. They arrive only a little after the first group when the first group is safe, and far faster when it isn’t. But since they almost never crash themselves they are ALWAYS faster than the slow guys(90% berserkers with a piece or two of toughness gear to hold aggro better)

It’s quite obvious that the optimal driving strategy is the last one. You will ALWAYS get to the destination faster than the slowest guys -and equally as safe- and sometimes the extra safety ensures that you get there faster than the speedsters.

tldr; no caution bad, some caution good, too much caution bad.

So here is the thing. You can hold aggro on two or three bosses in the game with full clerics and allow your team to more safely DPS.

But guess what? You can do the same thing with Full berserker and two-three pieces of Soldiers/Knights/Celestial gear without totally gimping your DPS. You don’t need to overload on Toughness. You need just enough to hold aggro. That means every piece of Toughness you equip beyond the necessary minimum is quite unnecessarily prolonging the fight.

“yeah but with mostly zerker when you run out of cool downs you have to dodge and you’ll lose aggro”

Or, you know, your team could keep the boss crippled or chilled (very easy to do at mossman especially thanks to ghost pepper poppers) and when you run low on cool downs you just backpedal slightly faster than he can walk.

Vlad.1739:

TLDR Conclusion: No good way to make challenging content in GW2 because its either does not fit for MMO or to punishing for the average player to have fun.

Just because you cannot solve the puzzle doesn’t mean it cannot be solved.

Let me start by linking two videos of challenging raid bosses from other games my guild plays.

So what do we see in these that we don’t currently see in GW2 bosses?

1. Complex AOE patterns. the bosses all have aoe attacks that are rather complex and require you to avoid them or be killed. GW2 bosses have relatively simple AOE patterns. The Vinewrath bosses and some of the breach bosses are a step closer in complexity but still considered casual. Take several of those bosses and COMBINE them to have a multiplicity of patterns that require constant movement and memorization of extremely varying AOE patterns. This would be quite challenging and well within the bounds of the GW2 combat system.

2. Secondary objectives. Sure there is a boss to kill. But often in these fights some other objective has to be accomplished to enable that. Perhaps the boss summons adds at 4 different places in the arena and if they aren’t killed the boss will heal or become invulnerable. Or perhaps the adds will detonate and cause a wipe. Or maybe instead of adds there are three capture points that players must stand on and defend from adds while the rest of the team continues fighting the boss. That would certainly give a role to characters built, ahem, sustain themselves against heavy damage in a solo setting.

3. Lot’s of movement around the arena. A lot of this has to do with points 1 and 2. There are times where the raids will “stack” and unload tons of DPS as a dps check is an integral part of effective boss design. But a lot of the time the group is on the move and constantly repositioning themselves for, or in anticipation of, a mechanic.

So it’s pretty easy, on the macro level, to see how much more complex encounters could be designed. Is there anything about these encounters that WOULDN’T fit in the gw2 combat system?

Nope.

OMG TANKS?

Sorry no. It’s quite easy to solve the tanking situation. Most of the boss killing power comes from wipe mechanics and AOE. The bosses “auto attacks” per se are rather inconsequential. Even if they WERE of great consequence, this can all be done in GW2 system without aggro or a taunt. A simple debuff like the Arah Deadeye buff telling you the boss is aggroed on you and you have to dodge. Or passively tank it. The boss can aggro at complete random and you’d have to avoid the attack, or passively soak it. Imagine a boss who amid the complex aoe patterns and adds and other mechanics had an “auto attack” similar to the arah deadeye, except in lieu of a purple debuff that does a high powered single shot, you had multiple different attacks he could do. Depending on the debuff your reaction would be different. Purple debuff? that means count to 2 and dodge like deadeye. Blue debuff? That means there will be a PBAOE on you and everyone around you had to dodge in 2. Red debuff? that means you’re about to be given 10 stacks of every condition in the game. Green debuff? That means you’re going to be given an unavoidable 20 second debuff like Agony that will spread like a disease to anyone near you, so you have to isolate yourself quickly.

None of those “auto attacks” require a main tank to draw and hold aggro. They all require huge situational awareness and are perfectly reasonable difficulty for GW2 players to learn, while being quite challenging. The random nature of the aggro will mean that everyone has to be onn their toes, especially while paying attention to the AOE and other mechanics.

In short, yes it is possible. I’ve described here how it can be done quite effectively.

-Nike

warbignime.4610:

So I was watching Towelliee(a popular WOW streamer), and he said this:
“GW2 has the best PVP and combat out of all MMOs, If GW2 had Holy Trinity, with that pvp and dungeons ,it would be the No.1 MMO in the world” this is his quote,

Cool so a guy who installed the game yesterday has formulated opinions based on zero experience and because he has a lot of twitch viewers his uneducated opinion is worth repeating?

Teratus.2859:

hybrid.5027:

You’re introducing a bad solution to a non-existent problem. Please explain why this is necessary.

“because pugs still do it even if its dumb!”

OK, well pugs also stack “heavies only” parties even though thats dumb too. Maybe you should introduce a bad mechanic that punishes teams for bringing multiple of the same profession?

I never said that

and this isn’t a solution its a counter to a meta based on a mechanic I loved from the first game which I want to see return..

im pretty sure i’ve made this clear by now.. or are people just skipping through my posts?

OK, let me rephrase: why do you want to “counter a meta?” Why is it necessary? It isn’t a problem so it doesn’t require “countering.”

I’m glad you liked the skill spiteful spirit in gw1. So did I. What’s it got to do with this game or what good game design looks like?

It would be better to run the meta nberserker build with GS+Sword/Horn. This would give everything you need plus superior mobility for tagging events.

I don’t get the need for useless defensive stats or condition damage. Different for the sake of being different is usually bad.

You’re introducing a bad solution to a non-existent problem. Please explain why this is necessary.

“because pugs still do it even if its dumb!”

OK, well pugs also stack “heavies only” parties even though thats dumb too. Maybe you should introduce a bad mechanic that punishes teams for bringing multiple of the same profession?

Red Queen.7915:

And for the record, it’s you who assumes that OP and his friends wanted to “actively ruin” somebody else’s experience. I’m sorry I still believe in human decency -.-

Misrepresenting your gear and leeching off other people is actively trying to ruin their experience. It’s curious your narrow definition of “human decency” doesn’t include telling the truth. Convenient definitions.

MightyMicah.7451:

Did you try the build out?

With nearly 3 years of pvp experience, most good players can look at a build and tell the strengths and weaknesses.

Red Queen.7915:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

seyhzade.3401:

An while we looking for party we said Berseker gears. for exmaplar my warrior at arah i have nearly 21k hp but other guys he had 24k hp

This is where he got caught in a lie. They werent Berserker’s.

Also, rest assured OP, that program merely allows you to see other’s Health Points. That’s the only thing he can see from you. If you think that’s ban worthy, then well, I laugh.

Well, whether or not they advertised as full zerker and then didn’t run full zerker themselves is irrelevant. It’s still about 3rd party software that’s used to see things other players can not see without it, and either way, it’s against ToS. You can laugh all you want, but if you agree to the terms that come with a deal and then not abide by those rules you agreed to, you’re in the wrong.

You must have a wonderful view from up on your moral high ground. Fact is that Anet hasn’t banned anyone for using a DPS meter and likely can’t/won’t and their official policy is not to comment on third party software so even if the answer was “we don’t have a problem with it” they could never say it. Unless you are going to continue that line of logic and ask for bans for people using SweetFX and similar graphic injectors.

Second fact is that the players were caught in a lie and you are white knighting for them. Not sure why. Guess what: those players lying about their gear actively tried to ruin the gaming experience of the players on the team, which is infinitely worse than any accusation you could make for the DPS meter.

What exactly is the exploit here? That he caught you in a lie thanks to 3rd party software?

My group does fractal 50’s in 15 minutes. We always get fractal tonics or the skin of our choice. If you do it one second slower you’re a nomad’s wearing newbie.

Any interested teams want to do Friday Night Dungeon Fights this week? Looking for trio teams that want to have a go. Lemme know if there is interest.

Was thinking of experimenting with the format and only having the first path of the night be random, and afterwards whoever loses the path gets to pick the next one. In theory it would allow underdogs a better shot. But it also might lead to a blow out one way followed by a blow out in the other direction and vice versa. FNDF is a good time to experiment with rule changes outside of a tournament setting since it isn’t an experiment with huge prizes at stake.

Anyway, if anyone even people not in the tournament are interested in playing would love to have you. Last week we had a 100g prize for the winning trio I’ll see about scaring up something for this week.

Ropechef.6192:

I did a full dungeon tour the other night.

I can count on less than one hand the number of corners I stacked in.

For fun I’ll list the places where we corner stack in meta teams…

AC: none.
CM: Trumaine tree in CMp2 to avoid his AOE until we can deep freeze
TA up: right before malrona to kill two groups of spiders before we aggro her. Mostly about killing the adds without aggroing her at the same time than using any properties of a corner.
SEp3: The first boss because the adds have projectile attacks. Also for Zadorajney because his adds have projectile attacks.
Cof: none
HotW: none
CoE: four golem laser room due to projectile attacks and to clump the mobs
Arah: none

So I count 4. You can make it a round 5 if you add Kohler in AC, but so long as you get a deep freeze on him you can safely fight him in the open too.

OMG SUCH STACKING MUST NERF

GrimmR.3541:

Iris Ng.9845:

oxtred.7658:

I personally find it satisfying to keep people alive without healing power by just using proper active defense, but for each their own. If you have fun using healing power, do so, as long as your group agrees.

You can’t use active defense against retaliation, or constant poison/burning uptime)

But you can LoS Bridgette or pull/knock her out of it.

There is no CC in guild wars 2. People tell me this in the general forum, so it must be true. Defiance system means you have to face tank her retaliation.

Balekai.6083:

However, it’s a false choice to begin with as gear, trait and weapon choices aren’t mutually exclusive. The majority of build power and diversity comes from gear stats in GW2. There are many traits and skills that are useless unless you gear for them correctly.

This isn’t true. GW2 PvE build diversity comes from weapon choice, traits and utility skills. Build effectiveness comes from stats. Wall of Reflection still reflects regardless of your gear. Shake it Off removes the same condition in berserker gear or Knights gear. Are we even playing the same game?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Saying “it’s just gear, not a build” is a fallacy as gear is an integral part to a build. You don’t run on-crit traits and sigils with Soldier’s gear, and you don’t use condition damage setups in Zerker gear. Those are examples of the gear fighting the rest of the build.

This isn’t an honest attempt to answer my question. 65003 warrior in soldiers gear vs warrior is only 30% difference in crit chance. So instead of 95% crit chance it’s 65%. Sure, the damage is less, obviously. sure on crit sigils (those are meta?) are less effective. So what? The meta GS+axe warrior build is functionally the same. The skills and act the same way. Only one of them will deal more damage and other will be able to take more hits. The playstyle is not one iota different, just the effectiveness. I’m talking about playstyles in my question, not effectiveness.

So try and answer it again.

Increasing the number of optimal builds necessitates increasing the number of optimal stat combinations.

Not true. The optimal warrior build is 65003. It wouldn’t take any stat changes to make 66020 better. Or 64040. Or 05063. Those are all decent warrior builds, but whats holding them back isn’t stat combinations.

Were there any moments in the dungeon when the team would have failed if not for your heals?

Narkodx.1472:

That was an amazing wall of text – too bad it is literally pointless

Why are people elitist about PvE? I can do PvE in clerics gear and physical utilities and no trait points

Do you hold any speed clear records? Has your guild won any of the competitive pve tournaments? Ofcourse the answer is no. The better question is, could you do those things if you really wanted to and actually tried?

VodCom.6924:

So there’s not a lot of variety in PvE leading to boredom and a bit of frustration. Having condition glass canon builds viable could be nice. Just look at the “dungeon builds” section of metabattle.com . Compare it with roaming or ranked arena builds sections. It’s a bit empty isn’kitten That’s a problem

So here is the issue with that. There are two ways that a system with a lot of near-optimal variety can exist. The first is extremely good balance and design. when a competitive game with a lot of variables is in balance, there is often a system arising where no one build or deck or character (depending on the game) can rise up and dominate the other and the rest exist in some sort of flawed parity. Flawed in the sense that there is no peak optimal, and the system isn’t solvable.

The other way a lot of variety can occur is when the game or system itself isn’t competitive enough, or cut-throat enough, for the optimal to be discovered. It could very well be that there are clear, distinct optimal WvW roaming builds. But even if there were, if a large enough % of the WvW roaming community rejects them and plays their own special snowflake builds the OP builds won’t rise to the top. I strongly suspect this is the case. There is no competitive WvW roaming scene. No tournaments, no leaderboard etc. It’s completely reasonable to argue that it’s a non-competitive scene and with no Darwinian pressure to compete, the best builds don’t destroy the suboptimal. Variety achieved through easy living.

A second point I’d like to make on variety.

You are looking for variety in gear. Why not look for variety in traits? Or weaponsets? that all exists. There are plenty of PvE viable builds using weapons that aren’t strictly meta. Or trait set ups that are completely viable and outside the meta builds. Why is gear variety the goal you wish for? Ask yourself this: would the game be better if more gear types were near-optimal, or if more trait choices were near-optimal? which answer would result in greater playstyle and gameplayer variety: more gear prefixes, or more viable weapon/trait choices?

Think carefully before you answer that.

Shieldbash.5304:

I don’t want to pve! I bought and installed the game because it said it was PvP focused… I could care less about standing on x and running to y while group 2 kills the dragon!

“they are ruining my subculture! You know, the one I joined last week!”

My hunch is that they aren’t going to abandon the active combat system. I could see an active heal check before they do a defensive gear gate check. I could envision a boss that has a phase that had like 6 bursts of unavoidable damage equal to some fixed % of your health bar, like 33%. Enough that if you didn’t have healing beyond your own heal skill you wouldn’t survive. It would require your team having access to a water field and blast finishers for that segment, or multiple people specced to shout heals or some variation.

It wouldn’t be a gear check because defensive gear (besides clerics lol) wouldn’t make it any better. It would be a minor coordination check (“phase two starting swap to water field blast”) and a minor team comp check (you’d have to bring someone capable of generating enough healing, even if its a berserker staff ele and a sberserker thief with a shortbow). It wouldn’t shatterer the berserker meta by any means, but it would add an element where team support was essential and builds with Healing Power are at least slightly helpful.

Colin also said that the content will make people re-evaluate their builds and gear. I posted in matt visuals comment section, “i take this as a challenge. If they can create content so hard that experienced players have to take off their berserker gear: great. But it will be so hard that skill clickers and casuals have no chance. Changing my gear would be a small price to pay for genuinely skill gated content.”

FWIW, I don’t think gear will need to be changed. Especially after we can practice it for hours and learn the mechanics. Certainly harder content requires concessions in build. Most warriors, for example, use offhand sword for lupi. Most Guardians use mainhand mace for fractal bosses. A lot of eles trait for Renewing stamina at lupi. It’s not crazy to think that people will re-trait to more defensive traits, at least at first, for truly hard content. But swapping to defensive traits AND changing to Soldier’s gear? I doubt it. Defensive gear won’t matter unless they introduce a specific Armor / HP check, and they certainly won’t resort to tactics that cheap.

spoj.9672:

condescending tones

You’re the guy interpreting tones on the internet from plain text, which usually is more about what the reader wants to hear than the message. And like I said, when people respond with “you might be right but you’re rude and arrogant” that’s just putting off their own self-improvement.

dlonie.6547:

Being 100% serious here, do you honestly think it would make any difference? Have you noticed any positive posts sparking interaction more than negative ones? Or do you just see a blanket policy of “never interact with the players”, regardless of game mode?

Save a few notable exceptions (Josh/Justin/Erin on the PvP team, and the API devs), all I’ve seen is the latter.

The devs so quite often have PR handcuffs when it comes to forum posts. But you shouldn’t make the mistake of assuming that since they can’t interact openly that they aren’t reading and listening.

Yes, I think it would make a great deal of difference to limit criticism to being constructive and to not make QQ posts about a lack of attention/content etc. It’s not so conveniently compartmentalized for them. Creating a cynical post might seem, to you, limited to that post or that thread but on concert with all the other posters, posts and thread it’s creating a cloud of negativity. And like I said, a lot of the criticism and negativity is probably well deserved, but voicing it with hostility just isn’t the answer.

I have seen first hand how being productive and constructive can lead to good developer relationships and can get things accomplished so I know it works better than the alternative.

dlonie.6547:

hybrid.5027:

deSade.9437:

Jerus.4350:

hybrid.5027:

The level of sour people full of cynicism (generally deserved, true) is so high here that they are quite right to ignore all of us.

So, chicken or the egg?

Yeah, as if he weren’t a part of it. Always superior.

I take it you think when I post ideas or point out things that should be changed it’s substantively equivalent to the “mommy, anet doesn’t like me” posts. You’ll find what I don’t do is trash talk devs, feel sorry for myself that anet doesn’t make content for me and I don’t make posts saying how much I dislike the game. I also don’t scour every single interview or article for quotes I can parse to either make myself feel better or worse depending on my mood. So no, I am not part of it.

lol, deSade nailed it — always superior!

This is the dungeon forum:

This is where we express disappointment about dungeons and associated content being largely neglected since shortly after release.
This is where we speculate on the future of such content.
This is where we vent frustrations about seeing the hype train roll past the content we want to see added and expanded.

Condescendingly dismissing any such conversations as “mommy, anet doesn’t like me” is quite hyperbolic and exaggerated. I haven’t seen any posts that seriously claim ArenaNet “doesn’t like” any one of us, or that there is some agenda against us personally. I see a lot of snark and cynicism, a lot of pent up frustration, and a lot of resentment at the neglect and silence.

All I’ve seen is disappointment and frustration that they don’t consider the content we enjoy to be a worthwhile investment for the future of the game — IMO, a wholly valid topic for discussion here.

For the sake of context, I do respect you, Nike — you’ve done a lot of good for this community and been a reliable source of good information. But this ego/superiority thing….it often gets in the way of any messages you may be trying to communicate.

I have no ego investment in this issue. I see the circle kitten of cynicism and snark, and outright rage as childish and immature. The fact that you admit these things exist but refuse to understand why it is actually a problem is pretty telling.

I have no problem with you guys making me out to be a condescending bad guy. all it’s doing is giving you an excuse to avoid dealing with your own negativity internally. Believe me, I’ve felt the same way as all of you, and in many ways I still feel very similarly. But I have the good sense to not contribute to making this place terrible by constantly whining about it. Maybe you don’t actually want developer interaction or new content? I have no idea, because the posts I read here sometimes make me think the people here are happier in their pity party than they would be with new content.

The best EA build is 64040 pure GS.

Why? EA should only be used in record runs where the initial ele burst is enough to kill most bosses. Since only 10 second burst matters you should be using GS and not axe since gs has a much better 10 second opening burst than axe.

deSade.9437:

Jerus.4350:

hybrid.5027:

The level of sour people full of cynicism (generally deserved, true) is so high here that they are quite right to ignore all of us.

So, chicken or the egg?

Yeah, as if he weren’t a part of it. Always superior.

I take it you think when I post ideas or point out things that should be changed it’s substantively equivalent to the “mommy, anet doesn’t like me” posts. You’ll find what I don’t do is trash talk devs, feel sorry for myself that anet doesn’t make content for me and I don’t make posts saying how much I dislike the game. I also don’t scour every single interview or article for quotes I can parse to either make myself feel better or worse depending on my mood. So no, I am not part of it.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Elementalist has highest burst for 1-3 seconds, and also has highest sustained dps….

But there are some other classes that can pump out more dps in the 10-20 second range…

For example,
A power Necromancer can drop wells, then enter lich form and auto attack and pull ahead in dps at around the 10 second mark….. but will eventually fall back behind the elementalist at about the 20 second mark.

If you are looking for the most sustained dps, elementalist is the way to go, imo.

There is no window of time, regardless of configuration, where a Necro has better DPS than an Elementalist.

You should definitely be allowed to leave the dungeon. You just shouldn’t be allowed to re-enter.

FWIW, I am not sticking up for anet or advising people to have hope. I just think that this is turning into a negative feedback loop. It would be best if people refused to be hyped but also refused to be negative over nothing.

Tom Yzf.5872:

I don’t see any “QQ self pity posts” in here. What I do see is speculation; much like what you are doing. When no information is forthcoming, this is what people do, speculate.

Some people choose to hope for the best with a twinkle in their eyes. Some choose to expect the worst.

The negative “speculation” sounds a lot like “woe is me anet isn’t going to develop content for me” as far as I can intuit.

The best thing you can do is not speculate at all. Stop parsing their PR statements. Stop interpreting their double speak. People are driving themselves into a fit over nonsense parsed sentences.

dlonie.6547:

You also left out a plausible scenario:

5. There are no dungeons in HoT, and ArenaNet does or does not say anything. We’d see a flareup of rage and angst like what happened after gamescon, but we’d all settle back into the status quo after a couple of weeks (those of us who stay, anyway).

I see you believe that the universe will end with a bang and not a whimper. =)

The negativity on these forums is pretty strong. I wouldn’t tell any of you anything anyway. Imagine what could happen.

1. Anet says nothing about dungeons. A bunch of QQ self-pity posts here, as we are seeing today.

2. Anet says “there will be dungeons but we can’t talk about it.” Incoming threads with laundry lists of angry demands for what it must and must not have. As if anet has had no understanding of the flaws and strengths of previous content. They are well aware lupicus is a good boss, and that NPC scripting sucks.

3. Anet reveals everything about their upcoming dungeons and people dont like the ideas and we get a bunch of cry baby posts. Mixture of 1 and 2.

4. Worst option of all, anet offers to communicate with the community here (big mistake) and solicits feedback. We would get #2 but even more aggressive and mean spirited, along with entitlement and egoism and a healthy dose of i-told-you-so. Remember the last time they offered to communicate with everyone here? It was basically like negotiating with an irrational angry mob. Shocking they stopped responding.

The level of sour people full of cynicism (generally deserved, true) is so high here that they are quite right to ignore all of us.

So you just don’t like the concept of PvE in general. Even the most complex and interesting raid boss possible is just a “few tricks” and reproducing what you learned by heart. Fair enough, I’m one of the few who didn’t enjoy gw1 pve since the pvp experience was so good, so I get it.

Oh boy another one of these posts.

I don’t know how to respond without anger.

Iglosen.4709:

In my opinion, 37k is WAY too much damage for one ability.

That’s one of the most ignorant comments I ever read. You realize its a 3.5 second channeled skill right? It’s not “one skill” it’s 9 hits dude. Elementalist dagger air auto, Lightning Whip hits 8 times in 3.5 seconds for basically identical coefficients to 100b, is that too much damage from “one skill?” Good lord, if you are going to make a post like this maybe at least try to have basic knowledge of how the game works first.

I made the rewards based on the idea that its 120 minutes @ 80 for a super skilled organized group and completely unbeatable for a pug or bad team. The challenge of the content would be such (if implemented as I said) that it’s fair to say that gold/hour wouldn’t be that great. Especially since as you are learning the new fights you can bet that it would be a LOT longer than 120 minutes. Ideally, 120 minutes is what it would take a good group who knew the fights. A team who is just learning and progressing might take all night. When you look at from that perspective, the best reward is your fractal level increasing by 1 more than any loot you can get.

I like how people are trying to solve the zerker “problem.” News flash: it’s not a “problem.” Glass cannon builds are the end result of a game with active defenses and classes who are self-sufficient on healing. Period. This is not only not a problem, it is actually a good thing and a step forward in MMO design.

If you really want to nerf zerker, introduce new content so challenging that the bad players who wear zerker and get carried by their DPS have to take off the zerker to survive. But be careful what you wish for.

As Weth said, instabilities/gambits just create simple systems that can be and are being gamed.

The real solution is to increase the boss mechanics as you go up tiers. No extra HP sponge / extra damage gimmicks like the original 50-80 fractals. Legit, difficult raid style mechanics. Archdiviner at 80 should be akin to one of the medium difficulty Wildstar raid bosses. Ofcourse this is difficult to program and time consuming for devs. But the end result would be, by far, the best content in the game.

My proposal…

51-60: Bosses get one additional mechanic to add complexity to the fight, ideally a coordination check or a CC check. No more rings on loot table. Ring drops replaced with greater chance at ascended loot boxes (pickable stats) and fractal weapon boxes rarely 10-20% (pickable skin). will be challenging for pug groups, slightly more difficult then a 50 for organized teams. 5g for completion bonus + 10s per level. Expected 30-60 mins for organized team.

61-70: Bosses become akin to hardmode raid bosses, roughly equal to one of the first few Wildstar raid bosses. Complicated AOE patterns, CC checks, coordination checks. Extremely challenging for pug groups, challenging for organized groups. Rewards would be 34% chance at fractal weapon box, 66% chance for ascended weapon/armor box (pick stats). 10g for completion at 61+10s per level above. 60-90 mins for organized team.

71-80: Bosses become akin to traditional nightmare mode raid bosses in complexity, roughly equal to a moderate difficulty Wildstar raid boss. Same checks as previous tier but increased individual responsibility, such as mechanics that require the team to split up to different sections of the arena to accomplish individual challenging tasks. Virtually impossible for a pug groups, extremely challenging for organized team. 25g for completion+10s per level, 50% chance at a fractal weapon box AND 100% chance ascended gear box (pick stats). 90-120 mins for organized team.

Surely we won’t get anything like this, but it would provide a framework for challenging group content utilizing increasingly complex mechanics. And the loot is technically the same stuff at each tier (just more as you go up) so casuals can’t complain that the skill gate is keeping them away from some prestige item.

Additional reward: As you level up when you reach a new tier you unlock a new title to show off how far you’ve progressed. Once you hit 80 you get “Fractal Master” which is a title one would well and truly deserve if this prop was implemented.

-Nike

RashanDale.3609:

and what exactly would be the point for doing that? the combat system was designed so that player skill > passive defense.
if a good player can avoid taking damage by being skilled enough and game understanding/knowledge, then thats good design.

The point would be to get some kittening variety.

What does the prefix of the gear you wear have to do with build variety? It’s almost as if you think wearing berserker means you’re roleplaying as a berserker, a cleric a cleric. You do know that the name of the prefix is meaningless right?

phys.7689:

hybrid.5027:

phys.7689:

If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

the dungeon speed run community is bigger now than its ever been. Not seeing the pressure to “encompass” non-conformists.

the speedrun community is larger, but the overall community versus the total amount of players is small.
I dont really care if people want to play a certain way, but i think the developers are not giving dungeon development the effort it deserves because they feel its market is too niche.
And its very true that it is a lot harder to experience dungeons in a non speed run fashion than it used to be.

And lets be honest hybrid, if the meta says the best party is a certain 5 classes(and its noticeably better), that is what the speedrun community will do, however, that means 3/8th of the proffessions will have no place.

thats just the what it means. I am not seeking to erase the speedrun community, i am just saying that by its very nature, speedrun community will not work for many players. For dungeons to thrive, it needs to appeal to both the current community and expand into regular players as well.

So your argument is, if we immediately ended all party filtering and happily invited more play how you wanters and their trashway builds, it would grow the community and we would get more developer attention.

No deal.

I’d rather be part of a good, small community that gets no developer attention than a bad, large community who gets lot’s of developer attention. Not to mention, there isn’t much evidence that “developer attention” would lead to anything good. #fractured #TAFU

phys.7689:

If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

the dungeon speed run community is bigger now than its ever been. Not seeing the pressure to “encompass” non-conformists.

Droggy.7863:

Humble when learn something new? Ok I´m done. I prefer thinking about my build then copy one build like thousands of sheeps. This is what makes GW so enjoyable for me. Thanks for everything guys

Yes, you clearly don’t understand how or why things are done, yet you have very strong opinions. Before you offer your opinions, at least learn the game before you lecture us.

Droggy.7863:

I’m not saying that barserker is bad. I’m just saying that the entire group of berserkers is wrong. I run cof with my berserker war along with another 4 zerk wars and it takes two times more then run with just 1 support that gives mights and other buffs

You have really strong opinions for a guy who doesn’t understand the game very well. My suggestion is be humble when learning something new and don’t expect to lecture people who have more experience than you.

http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt/b/629718782

2 token reward @ 1:41:49

Cheezy.2039:

Strangely enough, it only happens in SE

At least it never happened to me in any other dungeon and our tours aren’t slow (elitist4lyfe)

Yes, its almost always SE, but also happens in CoFp1 sometimes too. I honestly don’t know if speed has anything to do with it since CM is faster than those usually and never happens in CM.

Thaddeus.4891:

Zenith.7301:

It will trigger a general stun. Basically, blind is used just to shave off stacks so the stun can go off, and they mention some blind sources like well of darkness and black powder having adjusted values.

I prefer a design where blind does exactly what it should, make an attack not hit your allies when used just as aegis protects them from said attack no matter what it is.

Blind is being lumped as a CC for spike/moment of opportunity purposes when Blind should function as a defensive condition that is to be an analogue to aegis. The new defiance system converts it from a defensive condition to a CC skill.

And this has significance in the pvp sphere as well, where blind was specifically used to avoid an attack and we hear players will now have access to defiance.

No No. I ask for the specific source. Like copy paste the part of the interview and put it in quote. Because I understand what you are saying. I’m just not reading any of that in the actual interview. Either you or me didn’t understood the same thing from the interview or you have a piece of information that I don’t have.

On reddit someone said, “I think it works this way…” and explained that once you shave the stacks the next CC (even blind) would trigger a pre-determined response like a stun or something. An Anet person responded to that comment and said, “this is correct.”

Wiella.8567:

Just curious – did you check that you actually recieve exactly 2 tokens and not 20?
I mean – it might display that it gives 2 but actually add 20 to your funds.
Though I really doubt that is the case.

Yeah, it also gives only 2 Empyreal Fragments which are less important but easy to see in your inventory.