Brazil has highlights of the whole tournament but they aren’t editted path by path. I know a few guilds uploaded some of their very fast practice runs but I don’t think I saw any of them claim them as a record even though they are.
It would be super nice to have a fleshed out trio record board for the next tournament so we have times to aim for and get record setting hype.
Yes, PvE is horribly broken. Right now, even the least skilled player in the game can put on full Nomads gear and kill (eventually) every boss in the game without having to use a single dodge. Nomads gear is horribly overpowered unkillable godmode and completely invalidates the active combat in the game by eliminating all risk of failure and removing the reward for understanding mechanics.
but when will the skipping crowd accept that being able to destroy every enemy in the path quickly requires skill and that enjoying combat in a combat based game is not kittened in the head?
We enjoy combat in the game. Boss combat. Bosses have tells and mechanics and don’t die to one auto attack. Fighting trash mobs doesn’t require reacting to tells or dodging. That isn’t a good example of the GW2 combat system. When they fix Lupicus, I suggest you learn to solo him. Once you’ve done an off the wall lupicus solo you can lecture us on what is more fun.
So can I lecture you now? I love boss fights, and I love solo’ing bosses. But I get as much enjoyment from clearing a room full of mobs as I do from killing one boss. Honestly, my favorite boss fight to solo is Mai Trin.
I can’t suspend my disbelief enough to take that seriously.
but when will the skipping crowd accept that being able to destroy every enemy in the path quickly requires skill and that enjoying combat in a combat based game is not kittened in the head?
We enjoy combat in the game. Boss combat. Bosses have tells and mechanics and don’t die to one auto attack. Fighting trash mobs doesn’t require reacting to tells or dodging. That isn’t a good example of the GW2 combat system. When they fix Lupicus, I suggest you learn to solo him. Once you’ve done an off the wall lupicus solo you can lecture us on what is more fun.
i’d gladly trade back some support to some more active playstyle and more meaningful damage to be honest.
Warrior has a very active playstyle if you are trying to have perfect rotations. Also, I’d rather have mediocre dps and be allowed in dungeon runs due to my utility than have great dps and be excluded like engineers.
The hardest part of dealing with PS is getting yourself out of the mindset where you care about your 100b numbers. OMG I CANT HIT 50K HUNDRED BLADES ANYMORE THIS SUCKS. You have to stop looking at hundred blades damage numbers and focus on the number that actually matters: boss kill times.
They are called trash mobs, not treasure mobs. In every MMO ever the dungeons and raids have been primarily about the boss fights and trash mobs were either minor challenges or time gates. Sometimes I wonder if this is the first MMO people have ever played.
I don’t understand why you “need specific viable” builds for pve. just run full zerker and dmg traits and beat things up. GS and axe/xx
Some people labor under the delusion that Silverwastes mobs are so challenging that they need to use some special build for it. They don’t understand that they should use the same 65003 GS+* build they always run, but learn to play it better.
I have tried the standard GS+Axe/something in the SW for some time and I was not entirely satisfied with it. Don’t get me wrong, it gets the job done, but I feel there is something missing in it.
During defenses, I usually spend most of my time killing stone throwing husks or other types of husks that people neglect because they are away from the walls. I have swapped the axe/mace for a pair of swords in the meta build but still this is not satisfying.
The meta warrior build is completely focussed on the GS side (because it’s a really effective tool to kill regular monsters). However, once you step out of GS, the build loses a larche chunk of its potential, namely might generation. It is weird to spend some time generating might with the GS (but deal miserable damage) to then swap to swords and try to apply harder hitting bleeds.
How about tweaking the old pure axe build ? Something like 4/6/0/0/4 with Axe/mace +S/S to take advantage of dual wielding and dual wield agility for both weapon sets ? (keeping zerker armour but swapping runes for runes of the trooper w/ shouts on the utility bar for condi removal).
The best of both worlds build for SW is the standard 65003 GS but with Sword/Horn on swap. In open world, mobility is king. You can camp GS for most mobs, swap to the sword for the Husks and have superior mobility out of combat.
I don’t understand why you “need specific viable” builds for pve. just run full zerker and dmg traits and beat things up. GS and axe/xx
Some people labor under the delusion that Silverwastes mobs are so challenging that they need to use some special build for it. They don’t understand that they should use the same 65003 GS+* build they always run, but learn to play it better.
I’ve noticed quite often people are hoping that a quick fix (changing gear, changing traits) will be all they need to beat something that was impossible or super difficult for them before. Unfortunately, the answer is almost always “learn to play better” and the build is much less important. That goes for PvE or PvP.
I would honestly rather have Berserkers Power be a 10% damage boost that is always on than this trashy 15% boost that is never fully on in short fights and doesn’t affect your burst skill.
Better yet. Give us a new minor grandmaster trait and combine the old one with berserkers power and make Berserkers Power = 15% damage boost when endurance is not full. This is a lot easier to control and doesn’t encourage PvE warriors to ignore their class mechanic.
Suggestion for the 5 point trait: Vulnerability duration increased by 20%. Would compliment warrior’s offensive support capabilities in PvE. An alternative would be moving Empowered Allies to this spot.
Yeah, it’s a horrible design that results in incredibly stale and inflexible gameplay.
We have so much apparent “choice”, but most of the apparent “choices” are just red herrings, in group PVE situations, as it has all been boiled down to Zerker, max DPS build and skip>stack(in the same spot, every single time)>melee.
I can see why they did it – they did it so groups wouldn’t have to wait for a tank/healer, which was an admirable goal.
However, due to the very restrictive and unbalanced gameplay/class design (i.e. too much stacking for buffs and melee having more DPS potential than ranged), it just doesn’t work, as people have reduced it to a cheesefest.
So when I say “all the meta builds are support builds” do you think I am lying or do you think I am simply wrong? Because if I am wrong, please show me the meta build that is max DPS and not a support build.
If, on the other hand, I am right, will you change your opinion? Or will you just ignore that your fact were wrong and not allow that to affect your opinion.
When someone accused Keynes of flip-flopping on an issue he said “when I get new facts I change my mind, what do YOU do?” I could raise the question here to you. I have shown you to be in error, so will you admit it and change or will you pretend that I am wrong, or will you admit it but then keep your old conclusion and rationalize it some other way?
There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS?
Isn’t this why we are getting the break-bar with HoT though?
The idea being that you can just sit there and have everyone DPS, but that it’s actually faster and more efficient (and therefore, optimal), to knock out the break-bar first, and then kill it.
For example, when the break-bar cracks, the boss takes 50% more damage. So you could just have a full team of ‘zerkers whacking away, but it’d be much faster (and therefore more efficient) to have one guy specced not ‘zerker, but mass CC in order to crack that break-bar as often as possible. The result being 4x ’zerkers and 1x CC’er clears the content faster and more efficiently than 5x ’zerkers would.
Support is a bit trickier to address, but then, as others have pointed out, we sorta already have that a functional, efficient, and at times, optimal, role in a dungeon team via might/vulnerability stacking, reflects, stat boosts, and stealth fields.
Please explain how Zerker gear reduces your CC.
Because I can totally run a hammer or mace with Zerk gear, and why wouldnt I?
You cant increase your CC with items.
Please explain where i said “’zerker gear” specifically.
Read it again. Pretty sure the word I used was “specced”, which is short for specialised, which usually refers to Trait setup. I.E. a ’zerker specced player is one who goes for pumping out as much personal DPS as possible (as opposed to say, a support specced player which would be a PS Warrior with Banners, for example).
Though, come to think of it, yes, in that case, actually Boon Duration equipment/food is a thing too, like I guess you could argue CC-lengthening equipment/food could be a thing for a CC spec. Gear might be a thing there too, for example a guy specialising in CC procs might be better off with Assassin’s gear for the higher critical chance (and therefore more reliable Crit procs) than ’zerker gear.
So in the example I used, instead of having one player focused on traits that maximise DPS, you have the one player focused on traits to max out his CC output to bring the break-bar down as fast as possible.
Though chances are, you knew what I meant in the first place, and you were just being obnoxious about it.
“Zerker” means gear, dude, and you have your own personal definition and call him obnoxious because he doesn’t know what your made up definition is? Really? How is he supposed to know that you cannot communicate properly and that he should “know” what you meant?
The bottom line is that every build you see in the metabattle.com dungeon build meta section is a support build that recommends berserker gear. You can run those builds and use whatever gear you want, it is the traits, weapon choices and utility skills that are what really matter.
It works out to be effectively much less than 10% as it does not reduce aftercast and solely affects the channel time of the skill.
An above poster said that if you swing your axe 100 times with the trait you will get 110 swings instead. In actual testing you will notice you only get about 106.
" I just wish that other builds besides “ZERKER ONLY” could be as rewarding as DPS "
I agree with you xKole: very good observation.
Berserker is a stat type. Builds are defined by the weapon and trait selection. Go to the dungeon build section of meta battle. The builds are named after the key traits or weapons they use. The gear is interchangeable based on your personal survivability need. Berserker is just the recommended gear set for skilled players since skilled players rely on blocks, blinds, evasion and reflects to survive and not gear.
As an aside, that gggg run was pretty kitten funny, though on the other hand I’d be peeved if I were hosting and one of the teams treated the whole thing as a joke.
The frustrating part was that the gggg team got a bye (through luck of the draw) and they happened to pull their troll right when we were at our peak viewership and anet people were watching. It was just embarrassing for our community since we are trying to get a little respect and that really wasn’t painting us in the best light.
Whatever they do normally? Logically, if they are a guild that doesn’t do cooperative activities like dungeon tours and they don’t practise enough before the tournament, then the result can be quite obvious.
When I see magic the gathering tournaments with 5,000 entrants, most of them are fully aware that they didnt playtest enough or seriously enough to win. Most are just in it to mix it up and have a good time. Don’t see why anyone would think that same idea wouldn’t apply here.
Ravinsild, i think you will not find here the kind of advice you are looking for. People here in the dungeon forum are more “meta oriented”, which means they always follow the latest speedrun tactics and builds, and you are looking for something that is out of the meta right now, that is this traditional support low dps role in dungeons.
I think people already explained to you that all the support you provide is not dependant of your gear, that you can bring support and still do decent dps and blablabla but i see that you still dont like the meta builds.
Other kinds of “off the meta” builds you wont find here in the dungeon forum section i think.
When you give someone bad advice all you’re doing to stunting their development as a player. A man with crutches will never learn to walk properly. This sort of cavalier, anything goes everything is great attitude is indicative of someone who will be trapped at the same level forever.
My heart does not fill with joy at seeing two warriors, but at least they can’t leave their pet out for a stealthed skip past volatile blossoms in TA.
Really, there are worse things than a second warrior.
Two warriors in a party usually means that no one of them can play anything else, because otherwise he probably would.
On the other hand 4 warriors and a Guardian is a completely viable team comp for casual speed runs. EZway is not to be underestimated in terms of effectiveness. 4x banners, perma fury, 25 might, 25 vuln, EA. Who needs stealth when you can yolo any trash run with ease?
I don’t like any path picking by the teams. We tried it before, if you recall, and it led to people picking paths that they were 99% sure to win, which isn’t super fun for anyone.
@Nike: I know the bracket is already set, but would you consider double elimination rule with best of three next time? More actions and more chance, less seeding required
Nothing is off the table. =D
I had a whole year of events planned out, but after they announced the xpac I sorta erased it all because for all we know there will be content in the xpac such that all future events will involve that and nobody will want to do the old stuff. Or there will be some sort of raid progression that channels competitive pve in that direction.
Surely a casual PvX guild vs a hardcore dungeon guild is a safe bet for you ;-)
Ah but that’s not that simple bet. Lets say you’re very optimistic and you think DnT has a 75% chance of winning, that means that his expected value of the bet is to win 93g. If I had 10,000g with no use of it, I could afford to place enough bets with 75% odds of winning that I could handle the occasional loss and still be way, way ahead. If all you had in your bank was 125g it would be harder to take the risk. As always, the bigger bank role has a huge advantage in gambling.
Interesting that there’s so much hate for a second Warrior. Warrior DPS is pretty good, definitely second rate behind an Ele but above a Mesmer, a Necromancer, or a Guardian. Warriors are also pretty nice meat shields in pubs, allowing squishies to have a little more breathing room.
Times have changed sir.
Warriors have very bad personal damage, but very good group buffing abilities. In the past it would be relatively efficient in casual runs to take two warriors, each running the other banner, but nowadays I can very much notice the drop in performance as opposed to having just one PS warrior with both banners and multiple eles.
Maybe part of the reason for it is over a year ago for the most part there just wasn’t anywhere near as many people who skillfully played ele as there are nowadays and there were tons of people playing warrior. Perhaps that was part of the reason they got nerfed so much? Who knows :P
One thing I can say in defense of two warriors is that with two you can share banners which means each warrior gets an extra utility slot for Signet of Might. An extra 180 power does a lot for Warrior’s position on the DPS ranking spectrum in relative terms.
A second warrior, however, is still incredibly worse than having a ranger in that position for team dps since a Frost spirit is basically a Signet of Might for everyone in the party and then some. Not to mention Spotter.
Soldiers with some extra healing. That makes me hit like a Zerker without the crit. The crit is sacrificed for survivability and healing – so I can get in and ress all those zerkers
“Hit like zerker” No. Soldiers is about 40% less DPS. Add in some “extra healing” and you’re hitting like half of a zerker.
Do all the people who are advocating tanky builds not understand how their skills work? Or do they have trouble dodging attacks in general?
Oh, I see that the brackets got reshuffled. Its definitely better than what it was before, can’t wait to take on DnT first round :-D. Not going to bet though.
Unfortunately a team has informed me there is a good chance that they won’t be there so I had to move them to the bottom seed so the highest seed possible could get a bye in case there is a bye.
I feel this guy is a prime example of someone that can greatly benefit from this cleric build. Some people just don’t have time to improve their gameplay to warrant running berserker.
I disagree. They are talking about dungeons not fractals. Clerics build is useless in dungeons.
Second, it sounds like they have weird builds. I doubt they are capping Might or Vuln. I would probably guess their ranger may not even be using frost spirit. Just by making a few build changes to be more effective they could be making 30%+ more DPS which would be all the difference in the world.
Elementalists have a pretty good rotation underwater that does decent damage as follows:
fire 2->arcane wave->arcane brilliance->water 2->water 2 detonate->water 3->water 3 detonate->water 5->air 2->air auto until arcane wave and arcane brilliance comes off cooldown and then repeat the rotation
There’s enough blasts in this rotation to keep 12 stacks of might while water 2 and water 5 both do decent damage (water 5 being similar to pre-nerf fgs rush)
air 2 provides some vuln and air has the hardest hitting auto if all 3 hits connect.
Also worth noting that Ele’s should run fresh air when underwater and swap to Air between the fire and water attunes doing a few auto attacks in air for the FA ICD.
Here’s a short list for you:
1. cleave.
2. LoS.
3. AoE attacks have more projectiles hit due to walls.
4. spike res if needed.
5. mobs do not get out of melee range suddenly.
6. 100% guaranteed buff sharing.
7. safe dodges.
You can do all of those things fighting the boss where they spawn, except LOS. LOS is only valuable for trash mobs, though. LOSing a boss is just wasting your own time.
To OP – Because you never stacked and LoS’ed mobs in GW1, right?
What’s funny is, he probably didn’t.
When you ran with 7 heroes, Ogden wasn’t going to tell you that you were using bad strats. Livia wasn’t going to say that your builds were trash. Razah didn’t complain about the insigia choices you picked. The Master of Whisper wouldn’t blame you for wipes. Unless you were in a speed clear guild, there was absolutely no pressure to conform to the meta in PvE.
Unfortunately (or fortunately as it were), this game is different. You have to group with people and you are expected to put in a fair effort at contributing.
Air is superior to Frailty and Strength in good groups. It takes about 7-8 seconds for Frailty to “ramp up” to full power, but by then the Air sigil has procced 2-3 times which is worth 3.3 coefficients, basically an extra Backstab or Eviscerate.
I personally will not be swapping away from clerics gear because I think it works really well, especially when you consider the entire fractal run, not just singular encounters.
Actually it’s only good on singular encounters. The random trash fights it is absolutely terrible on. The fights where you don’t have a boss who is toughness focused its absolutely terrible on. This quote I just cited basically translates to close-mindedness.
This is why I’ve constantly been asking for tryhard boss trio videos in both standard meta setups and the two glass + one cleric guard and wanting to see the difference.
But people would rather froth at the mouth instead of trying to prove their side of the argument is right, and it’s just boring to read.
An open mind is all I’m asking, otherwise we’d still be back in the stone age of 4 warriors 1 mesmer, and thinking warrior axe was better DPS because “it just is” rather than people bothering to actually confirm it. Kind of blows my mind it took as long as it did for people to even do math on that.
Read what i said again. I said anchoring might be efficient. But not in clerics. I have a perfectly open mind which is why im willing to entertain that having an anchor might be more efficient. But a full clerics anchor is wasting so many stats.
Pretty much this. No real reason why you’d pick Clerics over Knights or Soldiers other than being enamored with heals which aren’t even that good.
If you run with Skady you know how awesome this is the first time you see it.
If you run with Obal, Nessiah, Lushy and Winston you know how awesome it is when they can do the same thing in berserker with on piece of Knights gear.
You don’t need to rebut me. I wasn’t engaging in a debate. The thread is “how can it be done.” I explained how it could be done, simply and and clearly and offered video examples. End of story.
The topic is about “challenging content” not “content thats hard but also pug casual friendly.” That is something else. I was talking about the actual topic, challenging content. Is my idea too challenging or too easy? I dunno. They have to build it and playtest it to know. I’m fairly certain any content can be tuned to match any desired difficulty.
The key thing for you to take away from this is that you shouldn’t talk in absolutes. If you say “never” or “impossible” or “can’t” you’re setting yourself up to get proven wrong quite easily.
