Guild Wars 2

We are full at 20 confirmed teams! Any team further who registers will be given priority status in case there is a drop.

You don’t need Fury. Assassins armor + weapons and 6 in Firearms will give you decent crit chance.

The V.8759:

Hmm the stealth was no problem for me. I guess I should also get some better sigils (battle/energy) and stack might more often.

Thanks for the reply!

You very rarely need energy sigil on engie since you have perma-Vigor and an on demand low cool down channeled block with Tool Kit.

You have two directions you can go, direct damage or condi with engie solos. I would personally recommend direct damage since your gear will be more applicable to group stuff you do.

You can watch Dub’s Engineer lupicus record. Granted he is using condition damage build but the skills and rotations would be similar even if he was using direct damage. This will give you a good idea of how the engineer doesn’t really need energy sigil.

I would recommend Rifle for direct damage with Strength Runes and Sigil of Strength and Sigil of Force for solo dungeons.

You chances of getting a fractal skin at 50 is about 10%.

Hey guys. We are at 19 of 20 teams registered for the trio tournament. I believe I had reached out to every speed clear guild that I know of, so if there are any I’ve missed and you were planning on entering a squad for the tournament please do so soon.

We will probably continue to allow people to sign up for priority alternates when people inevitably have to drop but if you 100% want in now is the time.

Due to insane demand, we are increasing the field to 20 teams.

Easy way of comparing

http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

With DPS War: #?eyIxIjpbMCw1LDFdLCIyIjpbMCw2LDFdLCIzIjpbMyw2LDFdLCI0IjpbNiwwLDFdLCI1IjpbMSwyLDFdfQ==

= 61,224

With Pure Axe EA: #?eyIxIjpbMCw1LDFdLCIyIjpbMCw2LDFdLCIzIjpbMyw2LDFdLCI0IjpbNiwwLDFdLCI1IjpbMSw0LDFdfQ==

=61,871

DPS gain of using the EA build of 1.2%. Note: the difference in DPS from the calculator is entirely based on the fact that pure axe generates an additional stack and a half of vuln. If the party caps vuln, such as the ele’s coordinating glyph of storms or using Ice Bow the EA build would in fact be a slight DPS loss.

MithranArkanere.8957:

If anything, these changes are not enough.

There’s a long way to go until “pure damage” is not pretty much the only option.

No offense, but the only reason full glass builds are used in PvE is that the players are skilled and experienced enough to use them without dying. It isn’t a fault of the game mechanics or skills or any of the other things you cited. It’s a symptom of the game being two years old and people having had plenty of time to practice all of these dungeons.

I bring this up whenever someone makes your spurious anti-meta argument, but all the DPS builds you see in speed clears are actually support/dps builds. When people make your argument I feel like they don’t understand this fact, and their lack of understanding means they either aren’t experienced enough, or just chime into conversations despite knowing little about the topic at hand.

Based on feedback from Snow Crows, Sorrow’s Embrace story mode will be removed due to extremely high bug out potential and replacing it with HotW story mode.

Offering a solution presupposes there is a problem.

I disagree entirely that the “zerk meta” is a problem in need of a solution, so I have to take issue with the entire offering.

Don’t worry I’ll do the work for you.

Assumptions: Both banners, 25 Might, 25 Vuln, Bleeding Target, Fury. Post 1/28 Might Nerf. Truffle Steaks.

66002 pure axe: produces 42.05 coefficients every 30 seconds for 1.402 average.

Weapon strength = 1000
Power = 3508
Crit Chance: 97%
Crit Damage: 1.46
Damage mods: 2.39

Total DPS: 10,923.49

=====

GS + AXE/Mace

GS Coefficients every 30 seconds = 33.08 / 30 = 1.103
Axe Coefficients every 30 seconds = 10 / 30 = .334
Eviscerate Coefficients every 30 seconds = 3 / 30 = .1

GS dps = 8873
axe dps = 2331.00
evis = 290.1

Total DPS = 11,494

So Pure axe is about 5% worse dps, is less mobile outside of combat, and less fun to play inside of combat and has significantly less burst DPS since GS damage is very front loaded.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Yeah ring of earth is a DPS loss

Yeah now that I look at it.. ROE appears to be a 1.2 coefficient on a 1.2 second cast time for a net 1.0. Whereas Lightning Whip will be a 1.26 coefficient on a .95 second casting for a net 1.32. Not to mention LW will benefit from 10% more for being attuned to air. So if you choice is LW vs RoE always LW.

When you say LW x4 does that mean four hits or four attacks (8 hits)?

And I take it ring of earth is a dps loss?

Xyonon.3987:

Ok, I made up my mind and took actual numbers and the modifiers for them with those builds and made some math:

Ego Warrior:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAnZRjMd09ZlH2eQHaAgAx8hALumKjuzA-ThRBABUcAFua/R5He6YA4BFQp6PmpEUMA6B-e

Support Warrior:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQRAnX3ZjMd09ZlH2eQHagggyYBEAnPhPY6TGEHBA-TxBBABVcAFwa/R5HAnEg80/EwTKoS1fOTJoYA0D-e

Damage numbers according to wiki and calculated per second.
Whirl calculated into a wall, max damage.
Empowered trait (+1% damage per boon) calculated with common boons: regeneration, protection, might, swiftness, fury (5).

---

Ego Warrior: +100 power and +150 ferocity with traits compared to Support Warrior.
Ego Warrior is able to get might for GS attacks.

• GS aa: 357.5 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 512,4
  traited 5 sec weapon swap allows you to never do a GS aa, yet I display this for those who might go 66020… how terrible this skill is…
• 100b: 566 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 811,2
• whirl: 1000 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 1433,2
• Axe aa: 608 -> +5% +3% +15% +10% = +36,8% -> 831,8

Support Warrior: +150 power (for the whole team), +40 prec per sigil (1-2), +150 ferocity with traits compared to Ego Warrior.
Support Warrior is allowed to use F1 skill multiple times during a fight without the 15% damage boost lose. A (sadly here not displayed) huge damage spike if you ask me.

• Axe aa: 608 -> +5% +10% +10% +5% = +33,4% -> 811,1

---

Now if I would calculate the Axe aa with 50 power and 40-80 precision I’m pretty sure it outdamages EVERYTHING but the whirl of the Ego Warrior. And now adding 150 power to all my allies DEFINITLY outdamages the GS whirl aswell if you look at the team dps.

You can say what you want but the build seems pretty solid and aslong as someone or multiple allies can provide the 25 stacks might, lets say engi ele guard, then this build is superior. Otherwise I’m pretty sure phalanx builds will lead to victory. But no more Ego Warrior.

Did I miss something significant?
greez!

PS: You seem right about offhand axe 5# being useless – even against 5 targets the 3 target cleave auto attack deals 20% more damage.

Rather than write a wall of text using arcane formulas only you know the internal logic of, why not record a 30 second DPS rotation and post it here: http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewforum/4280892

We will be able to tell you the exact DPS your build puts out and compare it to the meta build.

xDudisx.5914:

You are comparing an mmorpg with a moba?Oh lets now compare with a FPS.

We need to compare mmorpg’s dungeons with mmorpg’s dungeons.

In Guild Wars 1 people played pve team builds where you were literally invincible and could clear entire rooms of elite level mobs in seconds.

But please, continue with your lecture on cross-genre game balance.

You almost certainly want 5 in the last line if you’re going Wrench. Another 10% dps mod is clutch.

Which Path should we remove to add in Story Mode:

http://strawpoll.me/3427059

Ropechef.6192:

Crucible of Eternity Laser Trap qualifies as 3 man able?

(( I know it can be done i just wanted to confirm))

Yes, assuming they don’t change the blink to hit two switches at once trick. If they do patch that for some weird reason we’ll remove COE, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Can swap whenever you want.

I know Dub. Detha AI too hard to fix I guess.

Paths: The following are the dungeon paths that will be randomly selected for the tournament. Excluded are all paths with known bugs (ACp2, SEp2), boring story modes (COE, Arah) and paths that cannot be completed with less than 4 players (Arah p1, CoFp1, TA Aetherpath). For AC, TA and SE their story modes have been included to ensure 3 paths of the dungeon are possible.

The paths for each round will be randomly generated prior to that round from the following pool:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJzoBBM9gHwhv6O1Gtq17LshhJIAHZthFrRlvcooI6Q/edit?usp=sharing

Prize Pool: Each member of the winning team will receive 2000 gems, the second place team will receive 800 gems per player.

The current gold prize pool is 3,000g to be distributed among the top 4 teams.

And more to come!

• REGISTRATION ENDS MARCH 20 AT SERVER RESET *

Announcing the Guild Wars 2 Trio Challenge Competitive PvE Tournament!

When: March 28 and 29 at 11am EST (GMT -5)

Where: www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

The Teams: Teams will register with three members and one alternate. Prior to, or during, the tournament, the alternate may take the place of any player who is unavailable. Prize support for the teams will be distributed among three players.

Registration: The tournament will have open registration for up to 16 interested teams. Guilds may fill multiple teams if they have sufficient members; however the additional teams must use a different designation. Register in the official registration thread at (http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/18674672-guild-wars-2-trio-challenge-registration-thread).

Initial seeding, as well as any necessary byes, will be determined at random based on Challonge.com bracket software. Seeding and byes will be shown via live stream after the close of registration.

The Format: The teams will be paired up prior to each round for a best of three dungeon path speed run contest. The three paths for the round will be selected at random from the pool of eligible dungeon paths. No team will be required to run a specific path two rounds in a row. The semi-finals will be best of five and the finals will be best of seven.

The teams will begin their run at a synchronized time using (www.time.gov). The team which finishes the path with the lowest time will be the winner of that path. The first team to win a majority advances to the next round.

The runs will be broadcast live on (http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt). At least one member of each team must be able to stream in order for a team to participate.
The dungeon runs will be regulated and timed according to the GW2Dungeons.net restricted rule set.

If a team cause –intentionally or otherwise- a scripted event to bug a dungeon and prevent further progress or to unfairly advance progress, that team will be disqualified and their opponents will get a win for that path. In order to prevent excessive “unintentional” script bugs from occurring, the following paths are banned: Ascalonian Catacombs Path 2, Sorrow’s Embrace Path 2. Other paths which have script bugs have known workarounds to avoid the bug.

Final judgement for any disputed results or questions will rest with gw2dungeons.net admin staff.

Questions or Help: Should you have any questions regarding any aspect of the tournament, please post them in the official tournament thread on the Death and Taxes forum (www.dtguilds.com) or post right here!

If you would like to donate prize support (gems, gold, gemstore items) please contact the event host in game @ (nike porphyrogenita.8137) or via the DnT Forums.

DPS warriors already get banners. The CD trait really adds nothing.

Your build is significantly less DPS than the meta build, and adding empower allies doesn’t close the gap in total party dps.

Offhand axe is literally useless. If you want to support your party you should be applying vulnerability from the mace.

I made a similar build a year ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jme_2kUY3eM EA builds only make mathematical sense when you had FGS rushing, without it there is no advantage to it.

Cuddy.6247:

Purple Miku.7032:

Changes like this only further alienate the people who enjoy optimizing their gameplay.

They’ve been alienating people who don’t want to optimize their gameplay for whatever reason (sake of fun-to-use skills, weapons, etc.) in PvE for every release in Season 2. Now that a change might actually effect the dungeon speedclear crowd the DPS enthusiasts are upset about alienation?

This thread is a joke and should be locked.

You must not have been paying attention to the last few balance patches. It’s understandable, but not acceptable, to have such a myopic viewpoint.

Feature patch 1: FGS nerf, ferocity nerf, stacking sigil nerf
Feature patch 2: specific skill nerfs, strength rune nerfs

None of these things affected Johnny Staff Guard. In fact, casual staff guardians in clerics gear have received nothing but buffs for the last several balance patches.

They might as well just add Superior Rune of the Aristocrat to sPvP and run this bad boy into the ground!

Particlar, based on what you have napkin math is telling me this is like a 10ish% dps increase. Which should make it only slightly worse than S/F hammer in personal DPS. Pretty interesting.

Engie condi solo is gonna be sweet on lupi doe. 10x confusion stacks will be like 7k ticks when he does a move.

spoj: people were using stow weapon with lightning whip and healing signet to proc both heal triggers in only half the attack time.

Also, before any anti-dungeon meta conspiracy theory anet hates us stuff starts, just want to say that the Might nerf is a response to the PVP Celestial meta. Granted it still sucks but it probably sucks less than nerfing strength runes (again) would for most of us. Obviously the best solution would be a pve/pvp split functionality for Might but thats beyond hope.

dlonie.6547:

I’m happy for my thief, but sad about might.

Edit: I assume the might nerf will prompt a record reset? That’s an across-the-board decrease of 125 power for all party members.

I think its possible, but in lower level dungeons you were probably stat capped (or close to it) anyway with Might and food so it probably wouldn’t change much for sub-80 dungeons. I could see it being something in level 80 though.

Might nerf. Ooof. 125 Power is a pretty decent DPS reduction.

On the plus side, Rush might be fixed!

spoj.9672:

I kind of like the boss. I prefer them like this than requiring huge amounts of coordination. Still havent finish my Wurm achievements.

The individual champions were a little weak because who can really be a threat to a zerg? But they atleast forced players to pay attention with those area of effect mechanics and they had some fairly decent design elements (easy to ignore because of zerg). Its nice that they took design elements from marionette and made it less dependant on the failings of individuals. I was a little disappointed there was no final encounter after destroying all 3 champions though.

One thought that occurred to me when doing the three champs was how if they turned all three champs into one legendary boss who possessed all three of the area mechanics at the same time, you’d have a pretty decent raid boss for a 10 man group.

I was thinking of a sweet experiment where you start with one expert staff solo’er and get the best solo time you could. Then add a second staff, see what time you get. Then a third, fourth, 5th. etc.

The idea would be to see which character adds the most speed to the kill from a % and nominal time. I reckon the second character adds the most time savings but at a certain point you get enough people that you can swap to more offensive traited builds and they could be a big savings.

Right, I said “one of the ones” which also included us btw. Nobody had a problem with allowing that door if I recall. The only people who have a problem with it now are people who need to have a problem with it to suite their agenda.

Debbysaurus.4016:

spoj.9672:

Id say a maximum of 2 if you really think its an issue. Its a discussion for the community. No matter how well structured a guild is it might be difficult to represent the entire guild with just one person. Plus the hosts are both from iV so for fairness sake you should allow 2 per guild.

We’re doing 3 people per guild, there’s people who want to make “big” changes, therefor we think its best to have 3 people per guild not just 1 or 2.
We’ve always had 3 people per guild on the previous meetings, why would we change that especially since some people want to make big changes.

Big changes = big debate.

3 people = Big debate x 3 = lots of time spent with the same irrelevant things being repeated.

Once a person offers their dumb ideas do we need their lackeys to repeat the points twice more? Its way more efficient, if there are different opinions within a guild, for the guilds to debate that internally and have a consensus opinion prior to showing up.

spoj.9672:

Id say a maximum of 2 if you really think its an issue. Its a discussion for the community. No matter how well structured a guild is it might be difficult to represent the entire guild with just one person. Plus the hosts are both from iV so for fairness sake you should allow 2 per guild.

2 is fine. Be sure to pack a lunch.

Element Two.7316:

Jerus.4350:

Wait, how is the Arah p3 start not breaking rule 5? Was it an exception given?

Because obviously it makes far less of a difference than a kittening sigil.

If I recall correctly your guild was one of the ones who lobbied for keeping that door run allowable. I am all for changing it and resetting the record since consistency is of the utmost importance.

Also, I’m not for or against the sigil. Axias whispered me in game and asked me if it was legal. I am not the rules maker or the arbiter or anything of the sort so I said I would contact the guild leaders for their thoughts. Later I figured it would be better to solicit community input rather than do individual contacts. Perhaps you would have preferred if I had just made up the rules on the spot and answered Axias? Nah, most likely I would have been attacked for that.

3 is far too many representatives per guild. the last meeting had far fewer topics and still took almost 3 hours. This could take even longer if there is debate and people offer irrelevant opinions.

Please limit it to one member per guild and mandate that we stick only top the specific topics on the talking points.

spoj.9672:

I thought it was heading more towards allowing minor jumping puzzles (but still do all objectives) and keeping consumables disallowed. But ok may aswell just add everything else to prove your point and let us know how salty you are.

Let’s destroy the community so you can do a jump over the door COE record or a TA rocket jump over the gate record.

Jerus.4350:

hybrid.5027:

Wethospu.6437:

So seems like some sort of a meeting to discuss rules

I figured this would happen. Weird how like 3 days ago I said, “I’ll bet there will be a meeting where ‘passionate’ rT members try to dupe the community into scrapping the restricted ruleset and totally destroy the SC community.”

I can already see it now. The destruction of the restricted rule set. Executioners Axes, harpy feathers, tonics, Hylek pots, watchwork portals. Have fun guys.

If that’s what a meeting ends up deciding then wouldn’t that mean it’s the more popular option?

Persuasive demagoguery + change for the sake of change has been known to override good sense.

Purple Miku.7032:

As a few above have pointed out, no idea why someone wouldn’t want to ever change traits. It’s free.

I can answer that for you. For some players their build is as important to their roleplay experience as their character’s look and characters name. This is why there are posts saying, “please give me the best Sword/Shield Guardian build.” People have a desired roleplay experience and they are looking to fulfill it.

So for “Gunnar Steelarm, Norn Warrior” who always plays with his trust Hammer, his trait spread that enables him “to be tanky and still dish out tons of DPS” is just as vital to his self-identification as the toon’s name and armor skins.

All this is, ofcourse, scrub mentality (as defined by Sirlin, not used as a negative insult) where a player puts rules and restrictions on himself that don’t exist within the game. The desire to fulfill the self-imposed rules his has outweighs any desire to become a better player. And that’s perfectly fine, no one will knock that guy for playing the game the way that pleases him most. The only conflicts will arise when that guy is confused and believes that even despite his self-imposed rules he is being competitive and that his pet build is optimal. So long as he can keep the fantasy apart from the reality (quite easy in an RPG actually) he will be fine.

dlonie.6547:

hybrid.5027:

Wethospu.6437:

So seems like some sort of a meeting to discuss rules

I figured this would happen. Weird how like 3 days ago I said, “I’ll bet there will be a meeting where ‘passionate’ rT members try to dupe the community into scrapping the restricted ruleset and totally destroy the SC community.”

I can already see it now. The destruction of the restricted rule set. Executioners Axes, harpy feathers, tonics, Hylek pots, watchwork portals. Have fun guys.

Hmm, I thought the discussion was trending towards keeping both rule sets, but making unrestricted runs more competitive by fixing the start time rules. I don’t think there’s any reason to completely do away with the restricted rules.

Let’s hope.

Wethospu.6437:

So seems like some sort of a meeting to discuss rules

I figured this would happen. Weird how like 3 days ago I said, “I’ll bet there will be a meeting where ‘passionate’ rT members try to dupe the community into scrapping the restricted ruleset and totally destroy the SC community.”

I can already see it now. The destruction of the restricted rule set. Executioners Axes, harpy feathers, tonics, Hylek pots, watchwork portals. Have fun guys.

Molch.2078:

Here is the thing. I wouldn’t mind seeing no-rule speedruns with everything allowed, like its the norm in other games.

We had that. It was a complete failure.

Just FYI if you want to do a run like that and record it you’re free to. Keep Running did it several times.

The community approval of the restricted ruleset was nearly unanimous and the popularity is quite well proven. That’s all that really matters.

Lets look at how active records were prior to restricted rules and how active it was after. People vote with their feet. Barely anyone did records before the restricted rules and after the restricted rules barely anyone ever did an unrestricted run. In fact, the only unrestricted record I ever remember being posted was Keep Running doing a COE path.

If unrestricted rules were so popular and fun why did that format die? Why didn’t all the speed running guilds use it? The fact is it was unpopular and it died because no one was interested in those records and no guild that I am aware of had the least interest in them.

Dub.1273:

Take sm64 without restrictions as an example. There has developed more new ideas on how to save time than there will ever be in any restricted case.

Restricted ruleset is like doing gw1 records but forbidding glitching enemies, forbidding hos and dc to change terrain, forbid taking quests before reapers attack, forbid basically anything. What would result is a kittenty boring thing that nobody would enjoy doing.

The difference is that this was how it was in gw2 and it was so boring and unfun that everyone decided to change it to the current system. What works for one game doesn’t necessarily work for another.

From what I understand the gw1 SC scene refuses to require videos of their records and is satisfied with time stamps on screen shots. I wouldn’t brag about their progressiveness.

spoj.9672:

hybrid.5027:

spoj.9672:

Rules limit innovation.

That’s not universally true. It could just as validly be argued that limitations encourage creative solutions.

True to a certain degree. But clearly not so much at the moment.

How do you figure? FGS gets nerfed and records get faster. People start using mesmer portal tricks and double portal tricks in places never done before. This is all creativity. If you think that the well is dry of ways to improve current records I think you are severely mistaken.

I’m not sure why jumping over the door in COE is being held up as some example of amazing creativity and innovation being that we did it in a record run over a year and a half ago. And I fail to see what;s creative about using harpy feathers and hylek poison posts to get around having to put thought into your party composition.

spoj.9672:

Rules limit innovation.

That’s not universally true. It could just as validly be argued that limitations encourage creative solutions.

spoj.9672:

Were going off topic by discussing rules.

Right, the point is that there is a reason this sort of thing was never really implemented at gwscr and that reason isn’t that cookie was lazy or that no one offered any ideas. It’s just that there isn’t a way to do it that pleases everyone. And if you fail to please Goku, as we saw when he was in Kr, he will just not participate and do his own thing. I imagine others in the boss solo community would be similar.

When it comes down to it you need to have a ruleset for solos that prohibits any consumables and/or shenanigans or you need to have it be anything goes. Or a third option is you are just explicit about what is and isn’t allow (like Dub’s old thread) and pray it pleases people.

Interpreting what is and isnt an identical tactic is a recipe for a nuclear bomb of drama.