Guild Wars 2

My advice is to check out the guild recruitment sub forum. Nobody here is looking to carry people through dungeons so they can farm a legendary and then disappear after. If you really want to run dungeons join a dungeon guild.

The weapons and utility skills you choose determines your playstyle. The traits you choose determines how effective you are at that playstyle.

Your gear determines how much damage you can soak up passive if you are bad at dodging. Your gear determines how hard the attacks you land will hit.

It would be nice if people understood how the character building system in this game works before opening new threads like this.

Ranael.6423:

Out of curiosity, for Meta groups, I’d like to know:

- How much time do you need for AC p1 ? What does this time become when you only change your stuff (not trais, not strat) if you redo the same with PVT gear ? How does it shift for Arah p1 ?
-If a Meta solo player open a LFG “AC p1 zerk Meta only”, how much time is required to fill the group? If now the LFG is “AC p1” ? How does that translat with Arah p1?

1. A full soldiers run using meta strats would be, at worst, about 20% slower. You run past trash mobs at the same speed regardless of build. Soldiers is like 40% worse dps than berserker, but boss fights are a minor aspect of time spent in dungeons.

2. Both fill quickly, anything goes probably fills fastest.

Marthkus.4615:

Ranael.6423:

Marthkus.4615:

Some sort of anti-stack measure would destroy every noob-zerk pug group out there.

Most the zerks I see that stack in pug groups do not know how to dodge. They should not be able to get away with that.

Can you explain a bit more your point? Naively I would think that stacking under a boss makes the entire group directly in the range of the things they have to dodge… so if those you describe are bad at dodging they are then more exposed while stacked no?

Here are the situations I see
1) Boss goes down before it can kill even zerkers
2) Enemies like kohler spawn adds that go down regularly enough so that zerkers do not even have to dodge the spin. Even if they go down, they just get right back up again.
3) Boon poop, Aegis/reflection spam negating all the damage without having to dodge.

I see dodges in zerker groups in crucible of eternity against the alpha subject AOE, In arah, and higher level fractals.

Aside from those situations, I do not see zerkers dodge. Heck, when I run zerker I do not need to dodge or even click my negate damage stances.

Stacking is fast, but I think it should be an awful idea. In practice it is only bad for non-80, non-zerk groups who don’t DPS fast enough.

Skill clicker identified. No wonder you complain, obviously jealous of people who use keybinds.

Vukorep.3081:

How does it negatively impact your game experience?
While all professions are able to go full zerker some professions just benefit more from it than the other.
Resulting in people wanting and picking only players with a specific type of profession (warrior,guardian,elementalist, some include thieves and mezmers cause of their stealth,teleports and reflections)

This results in players who dont play those classes getting rejected to enter dungeons. And those who do play those classes might be new to the dungeons and wish to learn the ways of speed clear zerker way…but people dont have patience ,and will kick you cause you are a noob.

It creates a group of leetists players who want to group with other leetists who are already geared and know how to speed clear dungeons.

This thread is a pretty bad idea considering the topic is done to death lately. It only makes matters worse when you have people saying things like the bolded section above that are patently untrue. If grossly inaccurate statements are repeated by people who don’t know any better, it will eventually become the “truth.” We don’t need more echo chambers for uninformed positions.

Marthkus.4615:

It is really simple.
Active offense scales with stats.
Active defense normally does not scale with stats.

Quick fix.
Instead of skills making you invincible, they massively increase toughness
Total Endurance scales with vitality
Endurance regeneration scales with healing power.

Bam done. Zerker meta broken without nerfing zerker damage.

You entire premise is flawed.

Passive offense scales with offensive stats
Passive defense scales with defensive stats

How well you dodge and how tight your DPS rotations are has everything to do with your play skill and nothing to do with your passive stats.

dlonie.6547:

hybrid.5027:

TIL $50 is a lot of money to people.

Definitely. When I was working two part time jobs as a full time student, that would have been considered a major investment to me.

Like, “do I buy this, or eat this week?” sort of thing :P

This game has a lot of students that play it, I suspect that many are in a similar situation.

I was a poor student once too. But I was also a grinder who figured out ways to make money and get things done. I really think most people are simply poor at budgeting. $50 for a game that will give 1000s of hours of content is too expensive but a handle of Titos for the same $50 is OK every weekend.

TIL $50 is a lot of money to people.

I like the suggestion, I think there is something to it. It’s the one suggestion thus far I’ve read that wouldn’t be a huge problem in PvP. So kudos there.

This debate with Raine is fairly infuriating because you guys are arguing two different things but using the same words.

Raine: ramp up time is the trade off for dots
Wexxe: ramp up time is still a problem

So the issue here is that condition damage is inherently backloaded and direct damage is inherently frontloaded. That’s a given. In almost every other game with viable DoT pve DoT specs, the DoT has a higher top end. You give up a fast start for greater max damage. The problem, as Wexxe points out, is that in GW2 you have the drawback of ramp up time but the max damage is ALSO lower so its objectively worse.

Raine’s point is valid and correct so long as they buff condition damage to the point where a fully min/maxed condition toon with the full time needed to hit his ramp up has higher DPS than a berserker. This is a big change to the current system and hardly a given.

The problem is, as Wexxe described, two-fold. You need to buff condition damage so that a fully min maxed character has greater dps with condition after his ramp up time, and you need to account for groups that have multiple condition classes.

If you want my opinion, I would suggest that the easiest way to buff condition damage is a pve/pvp split where Might stacks granted 30 power (as it is now) and 45 condition damage in PvE. This would be better, in my opinion, than a straight buff to condition damage itself.

I’ve said that they should eliminate the Spear functionality and replace it with a 5% DPS boost. That would make up for the ridiculous nerfs to 100b and WWA. The trait isn’t used in PvP so the nerf made no sense then and less sense now.

Yeah, it hasnt happened to me in ages, but its a genuine concern especially since not everybody is going to use a thief for every path. I think we gain more than we lose by excluding it.

Marthkus.4615:

Harper.4173:

Still – playing as a full zerker is harder than playing as full PVT.

If full zerk wasn’t easy, then why are non-zerks considered carried?

High deeps means you have to dodge less attacks. Thus less skilled require.

Non-berserkers are carried because in a 5 man group with four berserker characters and one Nomads the Nomads fellow did not contribute 20% of the party dps. So in all probability he contributed below his fair share to the group, thus carried.

High deeps means less dodges. Right. Full nomads means zero dodges. Thus zero skill required. You sure this is the logical road you want to go down?

xDudisx.5914:

Tree.3916:

Your argument is not valid and is actually an ad hominem (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem).

The problem here is that there is no problem to fix. The people who balance this game are educated people with degrees in their respective fields. Are you saying that you know more than them and can offer better solutions given the restraints they work with? The fact of the matter is, non berserker builds are rewarded by being allowed to stand in one spot and soak all the damage. That not rewarding enough? Put on some berserker gear and stand in one spot.

“there is no problem to fix” yeah maybe that is why we are always getting class balance updates every few months. Because everything was perfect 2.5 years ago and needed no change. It is obviously the opposite. The devs saw the problem and are always moving away from the zerker easy mode in new content and updates. New bosses that you can’t do critical hits, some bosses with more armor, etc…

I guess people are too salty today becuase of losing 125 power hahaha.

Considering that Might is being nerfed to try to balance the pvp celestial meta and that they don’t make major balance decisions around pve you conclusions are dubious at best.

Let’s be fair. they did’t say the new zones would have vistas, hearts, POI or skill points. It’s safe to assume they will be included.

Carighan.6758:

hybrid.5027:

….is bad? And you want to replace those things with passive defenses that you soak up using 0 skill or coordination? LOL again. And you had the nerve to say that my last post was bad. shame on you.

You might get further in life with taking others serious instead of ridiculing them.

Anyhow, the point is valid. This is a RPG. RPGs are traditionally stat-based games, in older times even going so far as to exposing actual random rolls to capture the atmosphere of pen&paper die rolls.
It is entirely natural for a RPG to have a random chance to critically hit, scales by a stat of your character (you seem to accept this, instead of having to aim your weapon as a part of the enemy not showing armor). It is also entirely natural for such games (not GW2 specifically) to make you dodge a blow passively by some chance scaled by your character’s agility, awareness, perception, anything like that.

This isn’t a weird thing. This is actually what many would expect when playing a RPG.
Now ofc, GW2 never had this and was never advertised as having these systems (except crit!), either.
But at the same time, it’s not really in any way absurd for players to request more passive ways to influence the fight.

Actually his point was so far from valid that it was hilarious to me. His point, quite literally, is that effective use of skills, teamwork and planning makes the game too easy. That is seriously the beginning and end of his point. And you seem to find that particular conclusion isn’t absurd? OK, sure.

You’re off on some bizarre tangent about pen and paper RPG and character building systems from games 20 years ago. Sorry dude, that isn’t particularly topical.

Youl should have had Night/Force on your gs already. Strength sigil is insane overkill with Forceful Greatsword. You just don’t need it.

After today’s patch the Battle sigil on Mace is bad and you should swap the battle sigil to Strength on the mace and you’ll be good to go.

xDudisx.5914:

Exactly, the risk goes to almost 0 due to blocks, reflecs, icebow #5 and the fact most stuff just dies before you take any dmg. For some classes your “skillful rotation” is mostly autoatk. Also full of passive playstile like: drop a banner, have signets that you never activate, summon AI (frost spirit), etc…

LOL.

So you mean using…

1. Blocks (active defense)
2. Reflects (using the proper utility skill for the encounter)
3. Crowd control skills to disrupt bosses
4. Proper DPS rotations

….is bad? And you want to replace those things with passive defenses that you soak up using 0 skill or coordination? LOL again. And you had the nerve to say that my last post was bad. shame on you.

My thoughts are we are going to see instanced boss challenges (aka raids but dont use the r-word around the casuals) that will very skill gated but less difficult as masteries increase. This will mean for the hardcore we will have intense bosses can have real challenge (and real reward) for killing before most people can, and later as people acquire masteries they will go on farm within the general community. But once the framework is there they could easily introduce new encounters on the same system.

xDudisx.5914:

The content is so easy that it let you avoid almost all the dmg, by the simple fact that you kill the boss so fast it wont be able to kill you. You shouldn’t be able to avoid all/almost all the dmg investing 100% in offensive.

Your first sentence is incorrect. I can solo Lupicus on multiple classes not because I kill him before he can kill me with berserker gear, but because I understand his mechanics deeply and I know my classes well enough to adapt as needed to the challenges the mechanics present me.

Your second sentence is your opinion and not a fact. And it isn’t even a particularly useful opinion because the developers clearly intended the game to such that a skilled player can avoid damage. So I don’t want to say your opinion is wrong, I’ll be generous and say that your opinion does not accurately reflect what the game is in practice, nor what the game is intended to be in theory.

xDudisx.5914:

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

Looks like you are trying to underrate the gear just to say that zerker is not a problem. Try running meta traits with nomads and see how much dps you will lose.

The DPS you’d lose is largely irrelevant when you consider that you’d be essentially unkillable.

Yeah, clearlly irrelevant. That is why we see everyone running nomads, clerics, dire, etc and no one running zerker/assassin.

The gear you choose is indicative of how much damage you believe you will be unable to avoid. If people running dungeons expected to receive as much unavoidable damage as a WVW commander, they would be running nomads. Did I really just have to explain that to you, or do you have a non-glib point to make?

You don’t see good players wearing tanky gear because they don’t need their training wheels or security blanket anymore. You probably don’t have as long a memory as I do, but two years ago the pve meta was guardians with 3k armor and warriors with some knights gears. People stopped valuing the extra defense these things gave them when they got better at avoiding damage in the first place.

Again, the DPS youd lose isn’t relevant because in full nomads it would be very difficult to die. Assuming you NEED the nomads gear (why else would you wear it?), it is by far the most efficient thing you can run. The problem you failed to see is that most people don’t need it since the game is 2.5 years old and people have have time to get good.

No, your response was correct. I just love when people post a “new build idea” and its the meta build with like, one change and for the worse.

xDudisx.5914:

Looks like you are trying to underrate the gear just to say that zerker is not a problem. Try running meta traits with nomads and see how much dps you will lose.

The DPS you’d lose is largely irrelevant when you consider that you’d be essentially unkillable.

I like the OP and the first response. Makes me think…

Interesting raid-like encounters will by necessity create highly mobile combat situations.

Imagine Lupi’s arena but with 4 beacons at opposite sides of the oval. Lupi has about 50x his current HP, and every so often as necessitated groups have to split and go to the beacons to accomplish some goal and/or to have a safe spot from a raid wipe mechanic. Usually the beacons will spawn adds or have something that needs to be done within a limited amount of time or else raid wipe. So you have a very active fight where smaller groups are breaking off to accomplish a variety of goals throughout the arena beyond just fighting the boss and his mechanics. This is a far cry from “lol stack and burn down the boss” mechanics and also not nearly as complicated as raid boss can and should be. I would be pretty surprised if whatever is passed for raiding in gw2 doesn’t have bosses at least as complex as the one I’m describing.

The point is, stop trying to shake up the “dungeon meta” with these horrible suggestions. It’s far superior for anet to just give us new combat with highly complex bosses that will by definition push players to the edge of their skill.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

When in zerker gear ele’s do more dmg than warriors by a small margin, but if you make an ele have the same toughness and vit as a warrior then the warrior does 60% more dmg than the ele.

Elementalists do, conservatively, 20% more dps than a warrior. If you count Ice Bow and Glyph of Storms in short duration fights its probably closer to 50% more.

Expanded field to 24 teams. Remember the current bracket is not final, the seeds will be reshuffled on March 20.

The current broadcast plan will be to broadcast half of the matches in the preliminary round while doing another “off camera” so we can get twice as many matches done in the prelims. We will also be able to then show every match up in the quarterfinals. It will still be a long day even with that, but should set up the semi finals and finals on sunday pretty awesomely.

Spoj The Second.7680:

They said new challenging group content as a major feature. But they didnt specify what that includes. Im with the people saying it would be pretty stupid not to include some kind of instanced group endgame content in an expansion. And we had the raid CDI a while back. So i honestly believe we will get something that isnt completely open world.

Spoj has joined me on the vessel of hope. I tried not to let hope creep into my heart, but it has and I am officially an optimist. Can’t wait to see how this turns out.

Why should ranged gameplay be rewarded beyond the fact that it’s already EZ mode?

Oddly enough, it seems a lot of people are hyping “stack with scepter and swap to staff for the fight” tactical meta whereas I’m sorta moving in the direction of finding Staff worthless in dungeons outside of static field. Most fights are 10-30 seconds and unless the boss has a huge hit box that gets annihilated by Meteor Shower I would be surprised if double staff killed faster than double Scepter/* Lightning Hammers for most encounters. People can do their records runs however they like, but from what I’ve seen and done it appears that 2x hammers is far superior.

Croc.5129:

Gameplay being dictated by gear is exactly what the ‘gear as difficulty slider’ is promoting though.

And it’s not. The encounter dictates the gameplay. If a boss has heavy CC you bring stability, if it has projectiles you bring reflects. The challenge of the encounter dictates how players answer it. Gear is irrelevant.

An inclusion of further base tools and abilities that could be used regardless of what you are wearing, but would become more advantageous depening upon whether you put on glassy gear or defensive gear, would follow the same philosophy that currently works where content can be completed naked, but putting on berserker gear ramps up your offense to cut down on the time to defeat the enemy further with greater effectiveness of abilities.

Translation: you want to be rewarded for wearing tanky gear beyond the fact that you are nearly invincible. that sounds like horrible game design.

It just sounds like the game would be better off without gear stats being a factor at all, and just expanding the trait system to have more interesting ability modifiers.

I’ve said for a while that it would be better if everyone’s gear was Celestial and the only meaningful gearing decision was runes/sigils. This would get the anti-zerker crowd to better understand the fact that gear is irrelevant to playstyle.

It sounds like even having the existance of an advanced difficulty level would just have people complain that they cannot complete that difficulty level due to their lack of skill or time to get said skill due to other stuff in their lives. The base enjoyment would still be there for anybody who does not have the time or will to go deeper, why not just include more for those who can afford to take their gameplay further?

You make it sound like the berserker crowd is the one opposing hard content. We want raids, dungeons and skill gated content. I think you’re quite mistaken if you believe that there are highly skilled hardcore pve players who wear tanky gear. You’re quite mistaken if you think the tanky gear crowd are the ones who would be most interested in challenging content: these people need tanky gear for CURRENT content, what do you suppose hard content would be?

Just because utopia is out of reach does not mean one can’t go for the next best thing.

What makes you so sure that we aren’t already there? It’s your highly subjective opinion that the current game isn’t good, or could be improved greatly by implementing your ideas. Well, my subjective opinion is that you’re completely mistaken and refuse to change your ideas even after I’ve thoroughly and politely presented a case that completely destroys your position. Since our two opinions cancel out, I don’t know what the next step is for you, but I would suggest you refer to the 3 options I presented a few posts ago since those 3 are still on the table.

Jerus.4350:

Thaddeus.4891:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Well nothing lasts long in an optimised group. But say you are doing fractals which have long drawn out fights. What you want for that is D/F ele and a staff or second D/F ele. Easy 25 might when done right. And you also have to keep in mind almost every class can contribute a blast or two mid fight.

So with a staff ele and LH you should have no problem maintaining might no matter how sloppy you are in a dungeon. Its simply the best sustained might combination (ignoring phalanx) for regular dungeons. Phalanx only has the advantage if you lose time by prestacking might. But theres almost always a way to pre stack might without losing time. Sometimes it involves a short range portal.

D/F Elementalist can only keep a constant 7 might of stack over long period of time while doing 2-3k less dps than a staff ele. PS Warrior over D/F Ele without question for that situation, except for some fight where the utilities of D/F will be more important than the dps lost. But ppl usually bring a guardian in Fractal to take care of that part.

For other party member having some blast in mid fight. Unless you don’t take a meta build :

- Guardian have 1, but can keep 2-3 constant might
- 1 warrior can provide 4 with the help of other (banners), but only at the start of the fight.
- Engineer can blast 5 times, but only 3 are reliable (1 other is their elite and the last sacrifice their healing turret).
- Thief have a good amount, but switching to Shortbow in the middle of a fight? Really. Only blinding powder is a reliable blast mid fight.
- Ranger, Necro and Mesmer don’t have one.

Again, like I said. Engineer and Guardian can pick up the slack for 1 staff + 1 s/x Ele.

D/F with the rotation Zelyhn posted is more like 15 stacks of might, and i’ve heard you can even get higher than that, though I don’t run it smooth enough apparently.

It’s 15 with strength runes. Closer to 10 with Scholar.

Croc.5129:

If being a bunker was the only part of teamplay in a sPvP match, that would actually be a problem. But it isn’t.

And what is so wrong with opening a higher depth of possible play for other armour types, when those who are comfortable at their current level can still play in the same relaxed way regardless of what others do?

What you’re trying to do is enable a playstyle through gear. That simply isn’t what gear is designed to do. I have explain, at length, what gear does and what it can do.

If you want to see defensive support become more important need new encounters that are significantly more challenging AND you need to buff support traits so that they provide such an advantage that people are willing to sacrifice damage modifiers to get them. Notice I didn’t say anything about gear. Assuming the encounters are designed correctly and require coordinated CC and defensive support, they should and could still be completed by 5 characters in berserker gear. They would also be uncompletable by poor players because you raised the skill/organizational floor above what poor players are capable of. For what it’s worth, I hope raids come in the expansion and I hope they are actual skill gated content.

Just because he was fired for having a big mouth has nothing to do with the validity of the design philosophy. That is quite literally an attempt to discredit the evidence by attacking the person presenting it. Which is a logical fallacy.

The sad part is I have successfully explain how the game works, explained why it functions as it does, and offered proof that the developers intended it to be that way. And yet you continue to try to disagree. That’s very simple.

You have three options…

1. Find another game.

2. Accept that I am factually correct and enjoy the game for what it is.

3. Pretend I’m wrong so you can internalize the fact that you’re wrong and delude yourself. Then make another “anti-zerk meta” thread in a couple of weeks and I can be the hammer to your proverbial nail yet again.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

hybrid.5027:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2#Combat

Combat in Guild Wars 2 is built around three facets: damage, control and support. Damage is simply decreasing the enemy’s health, control is preventing the enemy from doing what it wants, and support consists of working together with allies. Each profession is able to perform any of these roles. While some professions may be better at an aspect than others, no character is a specialist in a particular role. For example, there is no profession which focuses on the healing aspect of support – the best healing abilities available in the game are the compulsory self healing skills.

Do you all get it now? Does it make sense?

This is the game. this is guild wars 2. this is what anet designed. this is what they delivered and this is what we are all playing. If you don’t like it, open steam and find another game with a combat system designed differently.

Can you post the part where they stated that the gear system was intended as a difficulty slider?

http://i.imgur.com/jJraP8Y.png

Was already posted on page one of this thread. Too bad the conversation didn’t end then.

Croc.5129:

hybrid.5027:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2#Combat

Combat in Guild Wars 2 is built around three facets: damage, control and support. Damage is simply decreasing the enemy’s health, control is preventing the enemy from doing what it wants, and support consists of working together with allies. Each profession is able to perform any of these roles. While some professions may be better at an aspect than others, no character is a specialist in a particular role. For example, there is no profession which focuses on the healing aspect of support – the best healing abilities available in the game are the compulsory self healing skills.

Do you all get it now? Does it make sense?

This is the game. this is guild wars 2. this is what anet designed. this is what they delivered and this is what we are all playing. If you don’t like it, open steam and find another game with a combat system designed differently.

And their reasoning behind the way they implemented gear?

Gear is a bi-axial measure of how much damage you estimate you will be able to mitigate in a given game mode. In a dungeon where you envision being able to avoid almost all attacks you should want to have gear that sacrifices passive defense for offense. In a WvW zerg where you can’t avoid all the damage a player would be foolish to not wear gear with passive defense. In sPvP if your teamrole is to be a point bunker you’re going to absorb a lot of damage and need tanky/sustain gear. If you’re a far point roamer you’re going to want glassier more dps oriented gear. People who argue that they want their Nomads necromancer to be accepted in dungeon speed runs as equal to a berserker are just as irrational as someone who wants to play a berserker amulet bunker Thief in ranked PvP.

The other axis is what kind of damage you do, direct or condition or a hybrid of the two.

The typical response I get when I point this out is “but but but but anet couldn’t possibly have wanted tanky gear to be nothing but training wheels in PvE!” You’re absolutely right! Anet knew quite shrewdly that for many players they would NEVER progress to the point where they would be able to take off the security blanket in PvE. Thus, they designed the encounters to be such that there are no fights in the game that cannot be completed in any gear type. Thus, they accounted for the fact that some people be forever in need of tanky gear, or prefer it for roleplaying reasons, and they tuned their bosses to be defeatable regardless of gear type. For many players, tanky gear isn’t training wheels and it isn’t a step on the ladder towards glassy gear. For many players tanky gear is the be all end all of their gaming experience, and thankfully the game does not artificially gear gate those players out of any content.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2#Combat

Combat in Guild Wars 2 is built around three facets: damage, control and support. Damage is simply decreasing the enemy’s health, control is preventing the enemy from doing what it wants, and support consists of working together with allies. Each profession is able to perform any of these roles. While some professions may be better at an aspect than others, no character is a specialist in a particular role. For example, there is no profession which focuses on the healing aspect of support – the best healing abilities available in the game are the compulsory self healing skills.

Do you all get it now? Does it make sense?

This is the game. this is guild wars 2. this is what anet designed. this is what they delivered and this is what we are all playing. If you don’t like it, open steam and find another game with a combat system designed differently.

Updated prize pool to 3k gold which works out to be 500g per player to the winning team.

I mean once you got your two PS warriors and your banner regen warrior slots covered you certainly have almost all the bases covered.

Crysto.7089:

AC Story:
Room is filled with lots of coffins and 2 blue dusts. Opening a coffin may spawn an Elementalist, a Mesmer, a Monk, a Necromancer, a Ranger, Warrior or ~7 Spider Hatchlings or cause a knockdown. One of them will ALSO spawn a Gateguard.
This is worded to say that the gate guard is in one specific coffin and you have to open them until you find him ie. you could get lucky and find him on your first coffin. This is not true, he always spawns after a certain number of coffins (I believe it is 6-7 *its 7).

Let’s assume that is 100% accurate criticism. Will that change your approach to the encounter? Will the delta between the written guide and the player experience create a situation where the player is unprepared for the encounter?

I guess the point is that its a distinction without difference.

Sigil of Strength on your Mace is going to be significantly better than Battle after Tuesday, for PS builds.

A PS build should follow the exact same rotation as the DPS build, which is why you have Fast Hands. stacking Vulnerability is just as important as Might, and if you don’t follow the normal rotation you’ll be costing your team around 6 vuln. 6 Vuln is worth about 8 stacks of Might, which is to say, extremely important.

Essence Snow.3194:

I like how it seems that"meta" is generally accepted to have contextual definitions, but ask about p2w and holy cow……ppl get strict about 1 set definition to rule them all. Kinda odd that’s all.

That’s because the word “meta” is generally used as a positive term or at worst a neutral term. Most people don’t quibble about compliments. =)

The term “p2w” is almost always used as a negative or a harsh criticism. So when people use that label its helpful to know exactly what they are implying so you can address the criticism, or agree with it.

Amiron.1067:

And this right here is the issue. People see certain stat combinations as “training wheels”. That should never be the case. Every stat combination should be meaningful and add to the gameplay, not act as some sort of stepping stone to the almighty stat combination of power, precision, and ferocity. When one stat combination rules all, there is a clear issue in game design.

The part I bolded is your subjective opinion, and not factual statement. The faster you come to understand that the happier you’ll be.

Here are some true facts for you though…

1. Tanky gear in PvE might not be “training wheels” but it is a “security blanket.”
2. This is clearly intended based on self-evident trends in how players approach the game as well as developer comments.
3, For every person who, like you, does not enjoy the game’s non-trinity active combat system, there are AT LEAST as many who do.
4. Anet was quite clear in the lead up to this game that there would be no defined roles and every character would have to contribute DPS, support and control. This is, accurately enough, exactly the game they delivered.

I’m glad you are passionate about the game, but the game is what the game is. You are significantly better off embracing the game combat system for what it is than spending time worrying about what it is not. If what the game is not is too troubling for you to continue, I won’t begrudge you to find a more traditional trinity MMO that allows you to role play the tank or healer you want to be. But again, we enjoy Guild Wars 2 and enjoy the combat system as designed and implemented by Anet. Please stop advocating that our fun be destroyed for your roleplaying benefit.

Thaddeus.4891:

Support is a huge part of the game too. Protection, Reflect, Aegis, Condi Removal, Offensive Buffs, etc. But its right that CC isn’t present at all in PvE. They clearly figure out that it was too good against boss and added the Defiant buff as a cheap fix.

The entire speed clear pve meta strategies for almost every boss fight are based around one skill, Deep Freeze. CC is critically important in PvE, if you care about having the most efficient dungeon run you can.

You ignore CC, just like you can ignore Support or DPS if you feel like it. The dungeons are able to be completed by 5 Nomads necromancers. Most pugs and even low end organized groups ignore CC because it takes coordination to Deep Freeze and burn Defiant stacks. they can still beat the dungeons anyway, but saying that there is no CC is simply wrong.

I like that you complain about my definition of “build” without offering an alternative definition. But you did manage to offer a hyperbolic comment about dyes! Again, I like your rhetoric. From a comedy perspective, not from a meaningfully informative perspective, just so you are aware.

If I say a word, and you instantly understand what idea I am trying to convey with it, you cannot argue in good faith that I am misusing it. Words mean what “we” think they mean, not what Webster or Merriman or any other compiler of words 300 years ago thought they mean.

Amiron.1067:

Uh… what trinity? I mean, they wanted a Control, Support, and Damage trinity, and the only one really present is Damage.

I didn’t know my Damage reflected projectiles, blinded trash mobs, put Deep Freeze on bosses, managed their Defiant stacks, cleansed conditions and granted stability. I guess I wasn’t using Support or Control after all!

xDudisx.5914:

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

Guardian has at least 3 optimal trait set ups depending on the encounter
Mesmer has 3 (at least)
Ranger has 1
Necro has 2
Ele has at least 6, can be 12 depending on how you count variants like 66200 staff vs 64220 staff.
warrior has 2
thief has 4

You are calling very minimal changes a completely new build just to increase the number of “builds”

Isn’t it awesome how when you define the term “build” exactly how you need to define it to fit your narrow argument that you can carry any debate? I really love your rhetoric.

You said 12 builds and list 4. And all of them with the exception of 1 are pretty much the same.

If a 66200 Scepter/GS guardian build is “pretty much the same” as a 45005 Gs+S/f build I’m not sure what your definition of build is. Those builds all play significantly differently. If you choose to pretend otherwise, thats your problem but I have no time for people who are willfully unaware of the facts, or people who debate disingenuously. You are both.

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

Guardian has at least 3 optimal trait set ups depending on the encounter
Mesmer has 3 (at least)
Ranger has 1
Necro has 2
Ele has at least 6, can be 12 depending on how you count variants like 66200 staff vs 64220 staff.
warrior has 2
thief has 4

No. You can complete any instance with 5 necros. You don’t “2 heavies” to do anything in game. You’re solving a problem that doesn’t exist.

I like this. I enjoy the mental exercise of solving problems that aren’t really problems. Like, I am currently quite vexed by how to solve the problem of having too much money and having too many genuinely good friends and lovers.

Can we reiterate that “play how you want” wasn’t a quote about build diversity, it was about rewards. As in you can play how you want and still be rewarded for it. Meaning WvW and PvP would have good rewards.