Guild Wars 2

Iris Ng.9845:

Then make a simple rule that the principal attack on the target must be from player’s skills, not from consumables.

That doesn’t really solve the issue of a poison pot locking lupi in phase 1 or other similar or worse exloit.

Here is what happens when you allow anything goes solo competitions: People use every consumable in the book and then you have someone who uses poison pots or advanced skritt technology to cheese lupi and every other boss. Once you reduce the game to who can exploit the hardest, the competition is over. This is why restricted rules were created for regular dungeon runs.

frifox.5283:

I want class specific (solo) records. For example,

• Fastest Lupi kill
• Fastest Arah p1 completion
• Fastest Champ Krait Witch kill (open world pve)
• etc

I too want the fastest solo arah p1 completion.

You only wipe records when the times can no longer be realistically beaten. I can’t see how an arah record with that sigil being the only change wouldn’t be beatable.

To be precise you’re dealing 21% damage more. So even better.

Yes, but not everything in AC counts as a ghost. Check out gw2dungeons.net to get specific mob details.

As far as organizing rules updates, Debby and Menno from iV have been doing a good job with it. they have far more contacts than I do, especially with the smaller EU guilds who I have probably never interacted with.

We have the current rules per the last community meeting on our site and you can feel free to copy paste them. Whenever there is a change to the rules I would have no problem writing them since legal writing is my forte.

I think most minor things like sigil of paralyzation can be resolved with a quick thread here without invoking a major guild summit. Out of regard for people’s time and schedules we can reserve those for perhaps a once a year refresher and/or whenever there is a major change.

The last topic is meta resets. I think that meta resets are likely to be a less and less barring a major balance change. The only thing I could think of that would necessitate a meta reset at this point is ice bow being completely eradicated and/or the game mechanic of dodging being changed or some other major thing like crit damage being removed from the game. In the case of meta resets it should probably be something that the administrator (weth) proposes and the voting is left to guild leaders. In the past the consensus for meta resets has been universal so I don’t really anticipate this being a divisive issue in the future, but I could see how the concept of a meta reset could be manipulated to benefit or hurt particular guilds. So it is something we should be somewhat careful of.

Sounds like most people are for allowing it. unless someone wants to make a convincing case in favor of banning I think there is a general consensus.

Axias asked me in game if Sigil of Paralyzation in record runs vs Lupi is allowed. I told him the community would have to vote on it, and I could asked each guild leader I could find and make a vote, try to organize a big meeting or just make a thread here.

Let’s talk it out…

My personal opinions…

Pros: It allows us to see new things in record runs we never saw before. Keeping Lupi from swiping p2 or aoe life leech in p3 will speed up kill times

Cons: its obviously an unintended functionality and if anet was more on the ball they would patch it quickly.

Pros: it probably wouldn’t really have an effect on the records so no sense in banning something that isn’t a problem.

Cons: we have premptively banned things that arent yet problems like mini pets that are also obviously unintentional game mechanics.

Anyway, those are my thoughts what does the community think?

this technically isn’t my account so I don’t think I should edit it haha

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2rn39q/new_home_for_dungeon_speed_clear_records/

Upvotes please!

Guhracie.3419:

White knight
fanboy
troll
shill
haters
whiners
complainers
entitled
toxic
QQ

Awesome! BHB is not on the proscribed list.

Zenith.6403:

spoj.9672:

Think about what you are suggesting for a minute.

- I haven’t suggested anything so far. Inserting reward trigger on last boss’ death is certainly a normal way to code a game. I don’t think the coders anticipated that party composition would rapidly change at this point in the instance and that selling services outside trading post would become a social phenomenon for dungeons. It’s using three systems (freely joinable parties in LFG tool, gold transfer with mailing and dungeon reward) to gain unintended advantage.

Since this exact thing (dungeon selling) happened in GW1, what makes you so sure the developers didnt think it would happen here? You sound really informed about the topic you evidently care so much about.

Make your own group.

http://youtu.be/jra3jV_ckYg

It’s easy.

Zenith.6403:

Lifestealer.4910:

i love it when people complain about dungeon selling, do these same people complain about restaurants selling people cooked meals?

- Of course not. This is a complaint why a “looking for group” section is not actually used by people looking for group, but those attempting to exploit the dungeon rewards system for their own benefit.

What’s the exploit?

Buying a dungeon run is like buying a Where’s Waldo book where Waldo is marked with black circle on every page.

Buying a dungeon run is like paying a maid to clean my house. I could do it myself, but not as well or thoroughly and I’d rather just pay someone else to do it.

Astral Projections.7320:

hat inflation might be high enough

What evidence of inflation do you see in the marketplace?

The world will never know. I’ll admit it, I’m curious.

Warrior – hockey player

Ele – Figure skater

Necro – fat guy in a half shirt on roller blades.

Thanks to everyone who nominated, commented and voted!

edit: and donated the generous prize support!

Couple things for you to know…

1. Spider Queen dies faster than Kohler in organized groups.

2. So does collosus rumblus.

3. Even if condition damage became good in dungeons venom thief wouldn’t be part of the condi meta.

4. Good players change their traits and utilities as needed on an encounter by encounter basis. The more often you get used to doing it on the run the less rushed it will seem to you. Practice more.

5. In game design, there has to be good options and bad options. Identifying the good and the bad is the reward experienced players get. Not all options are meant to be equal and it’s very good that the game designers haven’t tried to make it so.

6. You can run whatever build you want and still clear all of the dungeons in this game. If you’re only goal is to run a venom share thief and that gives you maximum happiness, there is no reason you can’t do that. However, if you want to run those dungeons as smoothly and efficiently as possible, you’ll have to change your build. This is the difference between playing to win and having a scrub mentality. I don’t mean “scrub mentality” as a pejorative. If you are honestly happier playing a venom thief, by all means do that and have a great day. If you are happier speed running, you’re going to have to use a speed run build. Ask yourself what makes you happier and do that.

7. Lastly, let’s be honest and discuss you. You have a pet build. Your special snowflake venom build. You don’t want to change it. But you also want to be useful. This is a paradox. How does your human brain resolve this paradox?
Option 1: change my venom build and embrace playing to win.
Option 2: ignore the meta and play how I want in play how I want teams.
Option 3: Implore anet to re-balance the game in a precise way that benefits my build while ignoring the fact that it would make the game worse for everybody else.

My question is, out of those three options, why did you pick the one that harms the most other people?

Topical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLxA_jpE56Y

How can you compare the DPS of any engie build not using Acid Bomb to one that does?

Acid Bomb is a 100 blades that allows you to continue attacking while it does it’s damage. Imagine warrior hundred blades allowing you to do an axe auto chain during the 100b cast. That’s insane. Especially in short fights where burst damage matters most being able to acid bomb + jump shot + blunderbuss is an insane burst. There is no comparison in terms of DPS, even if your tool kit build was better DPS in other regards it would still be far worse as a result of not using acid bomb.

Flame Legion or Pack is my suggestion. Ranger runes with a mini pet is so undignified.

Krestfallen.8025:

The reality is that “build diversity” has nothing to do with the zerker meta, and no amount of buffs or nerfs to damage (direct or condi), support, or control is going to change that. The only way it’s going to happen is if Anet does what they’ve repeatedly said they don’t want to do: make drastic, radical, and rapid changes that see entire traits, traitlines, and utility families reworked and/or reimagined from the ground up.

But as they’ve voiced repeatedly their preference for slow, gradual (some would argue glacial) “tweaks” over genuine changes, I would expect the current handful of “status quo” builds to be around for a long time— I mean just look at how long it took them to fix the dhuumfire fiasco (at least seven months of that time was trying in vain to get Anet to accept/admit that the trait as originally imagined was a horrible mistake, but that’s a whole other can of worms…)

Change for the sake of change is almost never a good thing.

AFAIK the whirl finisher part of the skill is broken though it may have been fixed in the september feature patch?

The adrenaline gain seems fine.

The dps portion though is fairly dumb. If you’re fighting someone who will dodge your axe 5 but will just sit there and eat auto attacks I don’t even get that.

Elegie.3620:

hybrid.5027:

Offhand Axe. Sounds good.

In PvP, the Axe #5 does 50% more damage than in PvE or WvW. Considering the damage only, it’s not unusual to hit above 10k on a single target (my best being around 13k against an elem, IIRC), although one still has to prepare the skill, using both stability and cripple. Running the natural Axe/Axe or Sword/Axe sets provides you with plenty of cripple, so the combination is not hard to pull.

Aside from this, Axe #5 hits 15 times and cleaves. In this build, it works nicely, because:

• It can itself be used as a preparation for Eviscerate. Not only will it help build adrenaline quite fast, but it will also reduce the defense options of the opponent, who might consume dodges or teleports to mitigate the damage. Guardians, in particular, will find themselves quite vulnerable to it, because of the Signet of Might.
• As a whirl finisher, it can significantly affect the area, when fighting with teammates: cleansing with light fields, blinding with smoke fields, and so on. Last but not least, since you run the long bow, you get an additional self-combo with Combustive Shot.

Axe #4 is less shiny, yet not bad at all. Its damage is decent, and more importantly it strikes twice, increasing the chance for a sigil to proc. The fury it provides directly contributes to the damage inflicted by a following Axe #5 as well.

Regards.

Even in PvP, axe auto attack is better dps than Axe 5. Face it, its trash.

Offhand Axe.

Sounds good.

You guys vastly underestimate Frailty. Even if Frailty contributes only one stack of Vulnerability, it is already producing significantly more DPS than Strength or Accuracy or Air or Fire or whatever else people use. Sure, you won’t always need the Vuln, but the times you do, and it contributes 3 or more Vuln make up for the times you don’t. And I would guess in daytime dungeons where most people don’t use slayer sigils for casual runs (CM, HotW) Vuln is needed in most of the boss fights, at least one stack.

I guess I should mention that making ectos cheaper makes rares cheaper makes precursors cheaper makes people QQ less. Introducing a 12% more time efficient ecto farm will have a chain reaction up to precursors. These are the subtle things Anet can do other than the brute force “hur dur increase precursor drop rates” to keep prices stable.

If you’re using the standard 65003 Gs+* build you can just save Whirl Wind Attack for when they charge rather than spam it on cool down.

When mobs have a mechanic, you should adapt your rotation to them rather than look for a different build in order to avoid learning how to mitigate their skillset.

gr8 thread m8 I r8 ur sarcasm 8/8

Nick.6972:

No you couldn’t.
My main is Guardian.
Over 1500 hours on it.

I guess that makes you an authority?

Make me a PvE Greatsword build that is drastically different from this one http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQFARlsApXolCxfH8DBA-TBBXgAA7PK/C1B0r+zjSQA-e
which completely changes my play style.

You didn’t pick traits. I could make a Strength rune based Empowering Might build, since I’m sure that isn’t what you’re using now.

It’s the same build I’ve been running since the open beta.

You used berserker gear and scholar runes on a guardian in open beta? Doubt it.

Utilities don’t change the way you play.

Fact: they do. If I am in a party where nobody can or will use reflect utilties my playstyle and tactics for an encounter will be drastically different.

Fact #2: Your gear prefix doesn’t determine your playstyle. Your weapon choices, traits and utility skills determine “what you do.” Your gear determines how much DPS you can dish out and how much damage you can soak.

Nick.6972:

Don’t be ridiculous.
Go to http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/PvX_wiki and count all Meta/Great/Good working builds for each profession, PvE, and PvP.
Then come back.
Thanks.

I could make just as long a list for gw2. Thanks.

Nick.6972:

I’ve no idea how people can even defend this system that was supposed to replace trinity.
Even GW1, a supposedly trinity based game had much more builds and viable play styles.
Even FPS games have more roles available than GW2.

In GW2 almost any build is viable. Almost any playstyle is viable.

Oh you’re talking about “optimal” meta builds?

Guild Wars 1 had meta builds for speed runs too that were just as strict and defined as gw2. Only if all you did was Heroway PvE you never encountered them. Livia was too nice to tell you your build sucks.

Belzebu.3912:

hybrid.5027:

This “issue” is actually not an issue. It is a good thing. It’s what makes the game well designed.

Till a certain point, I agree.
If support skills doesn’t scale with support-like stats, then what is the point of support stats?
I think those skills should scale better and some skills change the mechanic a bit, for example:
Protection: it would by default reduce around 15% damage and would scale with healing power up to about 40% damage reduction.
Aegis: would block the damage 80% of the time and would scale up to 100%

Something along this line, I agree that any gear set should be able to fill any role, but currently support role can be done with damage gear, but damage role can’t be done with support gear.

This is dumb for the following reason: there are no “support stats.”

Boon duration is just as powerful an offensive bonus as defensive. Vitality, Toughness and Healing Power are personal passive defensive boosts. Healing Power contributes to team support in a few corner case scenarios, but since the game was specifically and intentionally designed to NOT have a pure healer class it would be foolish to argue that HP was designed to facilitate one.

There are no support stats. There are only offensive stats and defensive stats. Boon duration is “both.”

Belzebu.3912:

Lifestealer.4910:

Its easy to spot when someone doesn’t know what they are talking about when they say everything is about dps, even for dungeons.

Facts: the reason people can go full glass is due to support abilities being extremely powerful.

For the most part anet got it right, every class fulfills dps/support/heal all in one build, thus there is no trinity.

True.
And complementing, a big issue is that support skills aren’t tied to support stats or scales very badly.
For example, aegis, protection, blind, etc … works exactly the same if you cast it in full glass build or in full support build, at best the duration will change and still it is an insignificant amount.

This “issue” is actually not an issue. It is a good thing. It’s what makes the game well designed.

Generally, it matters significantly more how a community uses a word in practice than how a dictionary defines it theory. When you are in a hobby or trade, those communities will define terms for themselves that might not match the dictionary definition of the term. To be hung up on the fact that plumbers use a different word to mean torsion wrench than the dictionary would recommend is the sign of a small mind.

The holy trinity in GW2 pve

Might / Fury stacking (DPS)
Wall of Reflect / Feedback (support)
Black Powder / Deep Freeze (control)

system is working as designed.

2015 PvEsports Update!

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/17916826-2015-tentative-tournament-schedule/page/1

February/March: Tour de Arah – Teams of 5 compete head to head in The Ruined City of Arah to achieve the lowest cumulative completion time across four explorable paths.

July: Trios – Teams of 3 compete head to head to win a best of 3 contest completing random selections of dungeon paths.

October/Nov: 2015 Guild Championships – Teams of 5 compete head to head to win a best of 3 contest completing random selections of dungeon paths.

Windsagio.1340:

Spoj The Second.7680:

The last point is just your opinion. There is a competative element. Its just not direct.

It also applies to a fairly small component of the population. Is there any place beyond the dungeon speedrun community where there’s a significant competitve element in PvE?

(Appearances aside, I’m always willing to be wrong)

The competitive speed clear scene is probably about the same size as the competitive pvp scene. and by “competitive pvp scene” i mean the guilds/teams who have a realistic shot at winning tournaments. Just like lowly hotjoiners adopt the builds of TCG or Abjured, pug zerkers adopt the builds of SC and DnT in pve.

I think a little perspective matters. GW2 is a niche game in china, fine.

Do you know how big even a small niche in china is?

Iris Ng.9845:

Croc.5129:

hybrid.5027:

Oh my the twists and turns of this thread.

On topic,

Someone made a rather unlettered recommendation that having higher Vitality should increase dodges.

I’m down.

so long as we’re doing that, though, increased Power should lower weapon skill cooldowns. Increased precision should increase the damage of my attacks the closer I am to my target. Increased Ferocity should increase my attack speed.

Sounds fair to me. Let’s do it.

The vitality idea is not one I agree with, but you could only equate it with power, ferocity and precision if those stats only affected your weapon auto attack, and absolutely nothing else.

And the simplistic way the core of the game currently works, that would still be offering more than raising any other stat.

Sure way. I approve! Let the warrior meta resurrect!

Nah, Lightning Whip and Lightning Hammer autos would be insane.

Croc.5129:

hybrid.5027:

Oh my the twists and turns of this thread.

On topic,

Someone made a rather unlettered recommendation that having higher Vitality should increase dodges.

I’m down.

so long as we’re doing that, though, increased Power should lower weapon skill cooldowns. Increased precision should increase the damage of my attacks the closer I am to my target. Increased Ferocity should increase my attack speed.

Sounds fair to me. Let’s do it.

The vitality idea is not one I agree with, but you could only equate it with power, ferocity and precision if those stats only affected your weapon auto attack, and absolutely nothing else.

And the simplistic way the core of the game currently works, that would still be offering more than raising any other stat.

Buffing auto attacks only is bad because then simply auto-attacking rather than utilizing a proper DPS rotation would become optimal, which is far less skill intensive. This is already a problem for certain classes, I wouldn’t want it to be a problem for every class.

Oh my the twists and turns of this thread.

On topic,

Someone made a rather unlettered recommendation that having higher Vitality should increase dodges.

I’m down.

so long as we’re doing that, though, increased Power should lower weapon skill cooldowns. Increased precision should increase the damage of my attacks the closer I am to my target. Increased Ferocity should increase my attack speed.

Sounds fair to me. Let’s do it.

People complain about server mergers and/or megaservers like its a bad thing. Either they add too few servers at launch and there are insane queues or they add a ton of servers and 6 months later every server is dead except two. The best solution is obviously to have sufficient servers at launch with a planned consolidation later when concurrent userbase diminishes.

Element Two.7316:

hybrid.5027:

Don’t know if people saw or not, but Frifox has made his DPS meter public.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/17728578-gw2dps-tool-for-hardcore-pve-players

Yada yada i don’t personally endorse the use of 3rd party programs yada yada use at your own risk.

It’s been public for a long time though…

Only so far as those who knew, knew. Now those outside the know, can know.

I want to add I think we should add metabattle.com to best visual guide. I think that site does a lot of work for the community.

Don’t know if people saw or not, but Frifox has made his DPS meter public.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/17728578-gw2dps-tool-for-hardcore-pve-players

Yada yada i don’t personally endorse the use of 3rd party programs yada yada use at your own risk.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

1) The only argument that is objective against FGS stacking is that it looked unnatural from a role play point of view.

Actually the main argument is that the skill was being used for a purpose the developers did not intend, and that use was an over the top amount of DPS. You are creating a strawman. I didn’t object to Fiery Rush for roleplaying purposes, so suggesting something of that nature is a logical fallacy. Though, as we’ll see logical gaps are your strong suit, or weak suit if you prefer.

2) The fact that it dealt abnormal damage is irrelevant: mesmer portal is the only skill allowing group teleport, which makes it abnormal, yet no one complains about it. Like you say yourself: there is always one best thing.
The fractal tournament and the new dungeon records showed unambiguously that FGS was not as effective as people like you subjectively made it appear to be.

Not irrelevant at all. The game was designed with an idea of how much DPS a group should be able to create. Bosses were given HP pools and balanced around how much DPS a group could theoretically produce. When you take the numbers the game was designed around and multiply them by four, it becomes a major design flaw. You say its irrelevant, but clearly you’re wrong: the devs said it was relevant. When the devs comment about their intentions that ends the dispute about intentions, period.

Portal? What does that have to do with FGS? Portal is, by all accounts, working as intended. FGS, by developer statements, was not. You’re creating a false equivilancy. More fallacious thinking.

The new dungeon records also say nothing, the more I think about it. Everyone who has ever done a record knows that the boss fights are trivial and what matters is how fast you move through the dungeon. Not LOSing a boss like Spider Queen is a time savings because the time she takes to come to your stack spot is a real consideration. However, records may be faster now, but they would be even faster if FGS wasn’t nerfed. There are still plenty of bosses that would be faster to kill with FGS. What we would likely see is even faster records with some bosses killed where they spawn and others quickly fiery rushed when that is optimal.

The only people who expected FGS to dominate the fractal tournament was, no offense, rT. I tried to tell them not to run that comp, but I respected their agency to make their own decisions, however bad they were.

3) Begging anet to nerf FGS made people lock their minds onto it. This killed innovation. Therefore the nerf became useful: it would unlock minds. This is exactly the broken window parable.

What an insult to LuPi, Snow Crows, Intricacy, vS etc. You’re saying because I made a couple of forum posts saying Fiery Rush is over the top these guilds chose to stop thinking? Maybe I should be flattered that you think I’m so influential.

I main an ele, but you main a warrior. Your class was considered more optimal than mine before FGS became pervasive. Therefore I could return your argument and say that you were asking for more relative advantage for your class. But I won’t do this because I believe we are both debating ideas selflessly here, let me know if I am wrong.

I understood that even if FGS was nerfed to oblivion that it wouldn’t change warrior’s position one iota. Ele’s are omnipresent due to Persisting Flames, a fact you know very well, I assumed at least. Before Persisting Flames, groups needed a source of Fury and Might and multiple warriors could do that. Once persisting flames was changed to give Fury it made it much easier to keep 100% Fury uptime and stack Might. Even if Ice Bow gets nerfed Ele and warrior will stay where they are in the meta. I thought you knew this. Since it was an impossibility that warrior’s position was improved by nerfing FGS your accusation against me is incorrect. However, my hunch about you still stands. You are so defensive, make such irrational and silly arguments that I can only conclude you are overly emotionally connected to this because your class got its easy button nerfed.

Casuals ask for a change in the meta because they believe players are not taking enough damage so their defensive gear isn’t as useful as it could be. You asked for a change in the meta so that players wouldn’t deal as much damage so that your skills become comparatively more useful and players take more damage. Same logic, same mistake.

More strawmen and false equivilance. I don’t want you to “take more damage.” I want you to have to “avoid more damage.” This is a big distinction. Taking more damage = no skill, no reactions, passive game play. Avoid more damage = use skills, use tactics, use reactions. Clearly a big difference. One promotes passive gameplay, one promotes active gameplay. You love a strawman argument.

Windsagio.1340:

@Hybrid; I really don’t have anything to say to that except ’you’re wrong’. You’re confusing a relatively lenient Margin of error in even the hardest content with no errors.

And you’re wrong. You’re confused about the margin of error. It only seems lenient because we have had two years experience solving these puzzles. Turn back the clock 2.25 years and tell how how lenient and forgiving Arah p1 was for people then who didn’t know all the tricks in the book.

Glassy gear is only safer because the content is so old that even bads have mastered it.

Remember when silverwastes came out and people were praising anet for release really challenging anti-berserker content? It wasn’t actually challenging or anti-berserker, it was simply that the bads hadn’t learned the enemy movesets and got dumpstered.