Guild Wars 2

IllegalChocolate.6938:

hybrid.5027:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

hybrid.5027:

I wonder why people who don’t like this game don’t just quit? Seriously, if I disliked the core combat mechanics of a game so much that I resorted to making QQ posts on the forums about the core combat mechanics two years after the game launched I would simply uninstall.

The only thing that makes the pve in this game unique and interesting is the active combat, so ruining that is literally ruining the game. Thank heavens the devs aren’t so dumb as to take these absurd complaints seriously.

If you guys like, I can suggest a list of trinity games you can play where your main tank can soak up damage and heals from the pure healer while the DPS toons range the bosses down. You’ll be happier, since you get to play the type of game you want. I’ll be happier because I don’t have to read QQ threads about a game’s combat system two years after launch written by people who don’t have the faintest understanding of the system they purport to change.

Are you serious?

Bunker Guard which is for the most part a PURE tank with support requires a great deal of active play to play good with, you’re not gonna stand there and get double backstabbed by two sleight of hand thieves while a power longbow ranger pelts you from the ridge.

Tanky != no active play, TERA Online says otherwise, Dark Souls says otherwise, Global Agenda (RIP) says otherwise, Spvp says otherwise, WvW says otherwise.

The only reason as to why its this way in GW2 PvE is due to the fact that mobs are completely one dimensional. They don’t harass you forward into traps, they don’t reactively block, dodge, almost all attacks are easily telegraphed and avoidable, all of which are avoidable with the same methods using the same rhythms with no designs to try and break you out of auto pilot dodging. The same methods of engagement albeit one or two adjustments can be used to tackle a huge chunk of content without even understanding why it does what it does. You can quite literally enact one strategy and the AI will do almost nothing to counter play you or even live long enough for anything to register.

And what exactly about PvE in this game that is at all interesting? Mobs are predictable and are easy to dissect and break down everything will always do the same thing, you always expect the same outcomes the same behavior the same results, what is so interesting about monotone again?

Lupi dies to cloak and dagger backstab spam, you can literally dance circles around him while he struggle to land hits on anything until he tries to put you into bubbles. That isn’t interesting, it’s like watching a giant baby struggle in his crib.

You can spin Mai Trin in circles while first mate desperately tries to blow you up with a slow kitten cannon, that is interesting?

I honestly don’t see it, is it the jumping puzzles? well not a lot of other mmos have diverse platforming sequences anyways. I will admit that the environments are very beautiful.

This game has fantastic core mechanics, it has fantastic combat and great production values. We need PvE content that challenges us on all fronts, our ability to maneuver, to think critically, and to make core choices in our setups and forces us to really appreciate all the designs and choices we have available. Nothing in PvE does that innately.

You’re the guy talking about pvp in a pve thread. So yeah.

LOL is that all you have for me? I clearly mentioned examples of PvE CLEARLY and no comment on those?

Tera Online’s tanking practices in PvE require more twitch, reaction, and timing than any PvE in Guild Wars 2, this is sheer proof that content can be ton that would demand high reactive capability from everyone including toughness archetypes regardless of trinity or not.

I clearly mentioned examples of how content can demand utmost dedication from all archetypes with leg room in Guild Wars 2 without introducing the trinity system and WITHOUT blowing up berserker builds in my previous posts, still no comment on those?

The truth is clear, you just want your way to be the only way with no alternatives. The Zerker Meta is holding this game back, and it needs to disappear.

I’ve already said everything that an intelligent, objective person reading this thread would need to be said in order to arrive at the correct conclusions. I don’t need to pick nits with you. But I will say this, if Tera pve is so good, why don’t you go back to it?

IllegalChocolate.6938:

hybrid.5027:

I wonder why people who don’t like this game don’t just quit? Seriously, if I disliked the core combat mechanics of a game so much that I resorted to making QQ posts on the forums about the core combat mechanics two years after the game launched I would simply uninstall.

The only thing that makes the pve in this game unique and interesting is the active combat, so ruining that is literally ruining the game. Thank heavens the devs aren’t so dumb as to take these absurd complaints seriously.

If you guys like, I can suggest a list of trinity games you can play where your main tank can soak up damage and heals from the pure healer while the DPS toons range the bosses down. You’ll be happier, since you get to play the type of game you want. I’ll be happier because I don’t have to read QQ threads about a game’s combat system two years after launch written by people who don’t have the faintest understanding of the system they purport to change.

Are you serious?

Bunker Guard which is for the most part a PURE tank with support requires a great deal of active play to play good with, you’re not gonna stand there and get double backstabbed by two sleight of hand thieves while a power longbow ranger pelts you from the ridge.

Tanky != no active play, TERA Online says otherwise, Dark Souls says otherwise, Global Agenda (RIP) says otherwise, Spvp says otherwise, WvW says otherwise.

The only reason as to why its this way in GW2 PvE is due to the fact that mobs are completely one dimensional. They don’t harass you forward into traps, they don’t reactively block, dodge, almost all attacks are easily telegraphed and avoidable, all of which are avoidable with the same methods using the same rhythms with no designs to try and break you out of auto pilot dodging. The same methods of engagement albeit one or two adjustments can be used to tackle a huge chunk of content without even understanding why it does what it does. You can quite literally enact one strategy and the AI will do almost nothing to counter play you or even live long enough for anything to register.

And what exactly about PvE in this game that is at all interesting? Mobs are predictable and are easy to dissect and break down everything will always do the same thing, you always expect the same outcomes the same behavior the same results, what is so interesting about monotone again?

Lupi dies to cloak and dagger backstab spam, you can literally dance circles around him while he struggle to land hits on anything until he tries to put you into bubbles. That isn’t interesting, it’s like watching a giant baby struggle in his crib.

You can spin Mai Trin in circles while first mate desperately tries to blow you up with a slow kitten cannon, that is interesting?

I honestly don’t see it, is it the jumping puzzles? well not a lot of other mmos have diverse platforming sequences anyways. I will admit that the environments are very beautiful.

This game has fantastic core mechanics, it has fantastic combat and great production values. We need PvE content that challenges us on all fronts, our ability to maneuver, to think critically, and to make core choices in our setups and forces us to really appreciate all the designs and choices we have available. Nothing in PvE does that innately.

You’re the guy talking about pvp in a pve thread. So yeah.

One funny thing about the zerk meta bs…

The original strife-way meta was 3 zerk/knights mix warriors with ruby orbs, a zerk mesmer, and a full knights guardian with ruby orbs.

The whole “tanky gear as training wheels” argument that they want to deny so badly is so evidently true. Sure, I cannot imagine the devs sat around during the Pre-alpha days and thought it out like that, but the result of the game design is so evident based on what players have actually done in the game’s history that denying it is absurd. I suspect that part of the reason that some people are so angry with the idea of tanky gear as training wheels is because they are insulted by the insinuation that they use training wheels.

Acid bomb hits nearly as hard as Hundred Blades. Unlike Hundred Blades it isn’t a channeled skill, so while the Acid Bomb damage is ticking, you are able to do other attacks. Imagine a warrior who was able to use a Hundred Blades and while that is channeling he can swap to axe and do an axe auto chain at the same time.

So yeah, that is how over the top OP Acid Bomb is. If you don’t use Acid Bomb you might as well not be playing Engineer.

Faux.1937:

Stacking doesnt make the game less fun, the No need for any other mechanic makes it that way.

Yeah so besides reflects, offensive boons, defensive boons, CC, ressurection utilities, blinds, blocks and dodging the lack of mechanics is small.

More and more I am convinced that people who have never actually done a speed run think there is nothing happening mechanically because when they watch the videos it happens too quickly for them to understand whats happening. Maybe I should take a video of a record run and do slow-motion narration of what is happening in key parts to show the detail of what is happening?

Who am I kidding, I could make a video exactly like that and the reply would be “hur dur zek metah is boring lol”

I wonder why people who don’t like this game don’t just quit? Seriously, if I disliked the core combat mechanics of a game so much that I resorted to making QQ posts on the forums about the core combat mechanics two years after the game launched I would simply uninstall.

The only thing that makes the pve in this game unique and interesting is the active combat, so ruining that is literally ruining the game. Thank heavens the devs aren’t so dumb as to take these absurd complaints seriously.

If you guys like, I can suggest a list of trinity games you can play where your main tank can soak up damage and heals from the pure healer while the DPS toons range the bosses down. You’ll be happier, since you get to play the type of game you want. I’ll be happier because I don’t have to read QQ threads about a game’s combat system two years after launch written by people who don’t have the faintest understanding of the system they purport to change.

hybrid.5027:

RemiRome.8495:

Wethospu.6437:

But it was a good call back to reality. I had somehow restored my faith to humanity but luckily it’s gone now.

classypie was my favourite.

Most of those that understand the capping get around it by using tricks/exploits so they can have faster runs.

edit: in his defense there was http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/116dom/is_there_a_cap_for_stats/c6jq6xj this post that literally no one read or cared about.

I’m skeptical of that claim since you can hit that cap with just 6 in Power trait line and full berserker ascended gear. I’ll test it.

I went in Arah. I equipped full berserker ascended gear with 6 in power line. Put in two +5 power infusions to hit 2499. I then ate a steak and asparagus. My power went up. My tool tip damage went up.

Confirmed: this guy is an idiot.

1.26g seems fair for SEp1. That way people actually come out ahead when they buy it for levels or tokens and you still get decent coin for your efforts.

Wethospu.6437:

Perhaps I should update tactics on gw2dungeons. :P

I’ll contact Strife. We have work to do.

RemiRome.8495:

Wethospu.6437:

But it was a good call back to reality. I had somehow restored my faith to humanity but luckily it’s gone now.

classypie was my favourite.

Most of those that understand the capping get around it by using tricks/exploits so they can have faster runs.

edit: in his defense there was http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/116dom/is_there_a_cap_for_stats/c6jq6xj this post that literally no one read or cared about.

I’m skeptical of that claim since you can hit that cap with just 6 in Power trait line and full berserker ascended gear. I’ll test it.

If we dilute the term “win” to mean “whatever makes me happy” we are broadening the definition of “pay 2 win” so much that it isn’t really relevant for discussion anymore. Pay 2 win originally, and in my mind still does, mean paying real world money to have an objective gameplay advantage that someone who does not pay cannot obtain. If you label anything on the gemstore in gw2 as “pay to win” you’re simply using the term as a meaningless pejorative not unlike people who call politicians they don’t like “communist kittens.”

Wynne.3908:

In regard to your post I think adding some mechanics to existing bosses to punish stacking is a great idea. The bosses are just too easy in this game.

You know whats even easier than stacking? Everyone ranging from 1200 distance all spread out. There is almost no chance of even being hit by a single attack from the boss. Maybe they should add anti-ranging mechanics to every boss to force people to melee.

I said quite a bit in the reddit thread so I won’t rehash it all here.

The WP arguments boils down to, “there isn’t enough risk in using berserker because you have dodges and evades and blinds and blocks, so we would scale those things with defensive stats so more marginal players would be encouraged to use tankier gear.”

So let’s boil this down to “there isn’t enough risk in using berserker gear and not enough reward in using tanky gear.” Let’s pretend we all agree that this is true and a real problem.

Solution 1 (offered by WP): redesign the entire gear system to amount to a nerf of active combat ability of berserker gear and a buff to the active combat ability of tankier gear.

Solution 2 (offered by me): Introduce new content with complicated and challenging mechanics. Once the bad players who don’t deserve to wear berserkers die enough times they will figure it out and wear tankier gear on their own.

Since that isn’t too likely to happen soon I have a third solution…

Solution 3: Put on your full dps gear. Pretend the prefix is Clerics in your mind. Set your traits up to benefit healing or “support” or whatever. Play as a support healer who also contributes some dps. There, you can roleplay as a healer and also be a good party member.

I hate the current system/zerker meta. Let me list the things I hate about it.

1. Requires people to have experience and skill to maximize their potential. This is unfair.

2. Requires teamplay and coordination to have smooth, easy runs. This is unfair.

3. When I do fractals and get an Apothecary stat ring I get mad because it isn’t useful anywhere. this is unfair, all gear should be useful somewhere.

4. I want to play a tanky support healer since thats what I play in every other MMO I’ve ever played and people don’t want to play with me in gw2 dungeons. This is unfair.

Thaddeus.4891:

hybrid.5027:

moiraine.2753:

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

What advantage do you gain by pulling a boss into a corner. Please post a specific in game example where you have an advantage. I know of one, but I want to see your idea.

Well subject alpha in path 2 and 3 so you can dodge its attack while staying in place. AC path 2 where you need the boss to go through the trap, if you are behind the pillar he will go straight toward you, go thought the trap and don’t attack you with his white AoE. CM path 3, if you stack in the tunnel you can kill the boss before the Golem reach you (or course if you have enough dps you don’t need to stack, but for normal group it can help a lot).

But its true that a lot of pugs stack at place *where there is no longer a real advantage. *It just make things easier for them when the boss don’t move in a corner.

Of everything you cited, the CM one is the only accurate one. And I think you mean CM p1 final boss not p3.

Nonetheless you’re right about the bolded part. The important part is that it isnt the corner that is conferring the advantage in any of those cases.

moiraine.2753:

I think the stacking is not the problem.The problem are the corners.I don’t mind to stack with the group just don’t let bosses be pulled to the corners.Make them imune or something like that if they are pulled to a wall.

What advantage do you gain by pulling a boss into a corner. Please post a specific in game example where you have an advantage. I know of one, but I want to see your idea.

Stooperdale.3560:

hybrid.5027:

Stooperdale.3560:

So anyway, solutions to solve ‘stacking’ should first look at walls and corners. Players who can combine well with close play in the open field should be rewarded.

Please read what I wrote just a few posts above. The only people still using walls and corners for most bosses have no idea why they are doing and are actually just wasting their time.

Most bosses don’t need to be cornered, unless you move want to move the boss before you engage. Some bosses like Subject Alpha can still be positioned better with a wall than with skills. For trash though the corners still rule as the top method of crowd control. Trash are often more dangerous than bosses.

I guess the point is the bolded part. That is almost never necessary, and even your example of Subject Alpha it people in speed runs are killing him where he spawns and not using walls.

Pay2Unique is hardly something anyone should be mad about. If they are, I would suggest not playing any games with microtransactions anymore, because the state of the industry is not going in a direction you’ll be comfortable with.

Stooperdale.3560:

So anyway, solutions to solve ‘stacking’ should first look at walls and corners. Players who can combine well with close play in the open field should be rewarded.

Please read what I wrote just a few posts above. The only people still using walls and corners for most bosses have no idea why they are doing and are actually just wasting their time.

In the waaaaaay olds days we played groups with multiple warriors. having the boss against a wall is a big dps increase for warriors. Thus groups would LOS bosses or otherwise get them against a wall for better DPS. This was the origin of “stacking.”

In the slightly less old days, people began to use the fiery greatsword. To use effectively, bosses had to be against a wall. So this reinforced the concept of pushing or LOSing bosses to a wall or corner.

Today, we don’t use multiple warriors OR use FGS. Good group no longer bother LOSing or pushing most bosses to walls. However, a large minority don’t understand this. They continue to LOS or push bosses to walls even when it makes the fight take longer AND confers no benefit. They don’t know why they do it, and they really have no justification other than “thats how you fight this boss” or “I saw a speed run video do it this way.”

Looking into my crystal ball two years into the future I envision a time when Deep Freeze is nerfed to a 1 second CC and pugs still do it for some reason even though bane signet is better and we have forum posts complaining of the DEEP FREEZE AND BURN META.

There are a few dedicated dungeon guilds who are always recruiting. I would suggest that first and foremost.

NCsoft literally talks about expansions in every investor report. Until they give a hard date I won’t believe it.

Ohoni.6057:

If ANet is keeping the value of Legendaries artificially high to deliberately incentivize players to buy them using gems, then they have committed a grave pay2win sin

What do you win? The Lions Arch AFK beauty pageant? 5 Achievement Points for the leaderboard? This is either intentional hyperbole or you aren’t familiar with actual pay to win games.

I can’t wait for some people to discover Aristocracy runes.

OP please post again when you are sobered up.

Jerus.4350:

hybrid.5027:

shion.2084:

This is great news! So you’re telling me that farming isn’t causing inflation, but is lowering prices? Awesome because I’d really like to buy a precursor since I’ve never had one drop (probably because I don’t farm enough).

So since I’ve been playing the enjoyable way to me, fractals, map exploration, a dungeon or two in a session, and saved almost every penny I’ve made for the last 809 days, I’m now closer to buying a precursor? I’ve got 401 gold Which one can I buy?

And when I get really lucky and manage to find a lvl 400 crafting material, can it sell for a lot to get me closer to my goal? Or has the majority of fairly “rare” things I am likely to come across now been devalued, while inflation has increased significantly for things that can’t be farmed?

Farming gold (dungeons) and farming mats (open world champ farms) have two different effects on the price of materials. In an ideal world the gold supply generated from dungeons will match the mat supply generated from open world and lead to price equilibrium/stability… which is basically where we have been for several months besides this last patch lowering material prices.

Not sure I agree that we’ve had prices being stable.

Since I started the game around march, prices of Powerful Blood have doubled. And this last month has been the most volatile of that time seeing quite the spike. Now, I just assume normal slow inflation for the majority of that, but they say that doesn’t exist so /shrug. Of course there are varying supply/demand shifts to explain some of the larger shifts.

Prices spiked significantly when the April feature patch introduced the wardrobe and created a demand spike. That demand spike subsided in about August and more or less prices have been stable since then, especially items like precursors which began to decline in price a small amount since their peak. This patch introduce a supply shock of silk, t5 and t6 mats (among others) which sent those prices down drastically.

The economy is (somewhat) balanced around the concept that 10g/hour is generated from the best gold farms and 10g/hour is generated from the best material farms, though obviously examples of better rates exist. That balance leads to price equilibrium. The SW farm lead to significantly more than 10g/hour of materials being generated per player and sent prices out of equilibrium.

Jesus doesn’t give anyone more than they can handle. The same can be said for Tazza. If you get the most autoattacks, its because she knows you can deal with it bravely.

Strength on the GS is overkill. You should probably have Force there.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

Woah, begging your pardon but where did I discuss politics? I was responding to the OP which talked about a similar thing.

Maybe you should find out the difference between economics and politics before you tell people what to do.

But I guess you know everything ;-)

No one who understands both economics AND politics could fail to see exactly where you stand on the issue of monetary policy. You discussed a politically charged economic issue and did so very one-sided and not at all taking care to come off objectively. So forgive us for noticing, as we forgive you for being unable to hide your biases.

shion.2084:

This is great news! So you’re telling me that farming isn’t causing inflation, but is lowering prices? Awesome because I’d really like to buy a precursor since I’ve never had one drop (probably because I don’t farm enough).

So since I’ve been playing the enjoyable way to me, fractals, map exploration, a dungeon or two in a session, and saved almost every penny I’ve made for the last 809 days, I’m now closer to buying a precursor? I’ve got 401 gold Which one can I buy?

And when I get really lucky and manage to find a lvl 400 crafting material, can it sell for a lot to get me closer to my goal? Or has the majority of fairly “rare” things I am likely to come across now been devalued, while inflation has increased significantly for things that can’t be farmed?

Farming gold (dungeons) and farming mats (open world champ farms) have two different effects on the price of materials. In an ideal world the gold supply generated from dungeons will match the mat supply generated from open world and lead to price equilibrium/stability… which is basically where we have been for several months besides this last patch lowering material prices.

I actually bought the game for pvp. In gw1 I didn’t care about the pve, I was in top gvg guilds from day 1 and I expected that sort of scene here. It didn’t work out like that for better or worse.

Only if you bought the game for the story.

You say “flaws” as if that was something apparent or true.

The things you see as flaws I see as elegant and good.

So my advice to you would be to think about what the game is and learning to appreciate it, rather than pining for what it is not.

Astralporing.1957:

Dalanor.5387:

Astralporing.1957:

NoTrigger.8396:

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

maha.7902:

Roles are separate from gearing.

This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.

It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).

wvw

Is not PvE.

It’s part of the game.

sPvP is also part of the game, and yet it can have separate stat sets. If there are some stat sets that exist for WvW, not PvE, then they should be acquirable in WvW, and WvW only.
Currently, it’s clear that for the majority of the game the action combat system and armor stat sets idea just do not work well together.

This is your mistake. You seem to believe that Anet created the meta and designed the different stat abbreviations top down to serve a specific function.

WRONG.

Anet designed a bunch of different stat combination and a bunch of different game play modes and released it all into the wild. It is us, the players, who decided what gear worked best for what challenge and created the meta for ourselves.

Rozbuska.5263:

Foefaller.1082:

Rozbuska.5263:

Jerus.4350:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Rozbuska.5263:

Azure.8670:

sorrychief.2563:

based on dps and utility

guardian
engineer
ele
warrior
mesmer
thief
ranger

not sure where you got thief has highest personal dps.
also bomb kit highest dps autoattack in game.

bomb kit doesnt have the highest dps auto attack, the meta engi pve build doesnt even use bomb kit.

That build what you called meta is sux then.

Bomb kit can have highest dps auto attack and still not be useful. Engi meta full rotation is higher dps than bomb auto.

Assuming you can hit max vuln though isn’t bomb kit going to weigh in higher than grenades though? Or is it just the auto and not the full rotation that’s higher damage?

Ofc its about autoattack. bombs hit for 9k and you can never compare it to grenade AA. But ofc you dont use grenades for AA but for shrapnel and freeze but thats another story:-)

The thing is, the current meta build for Engineers does not sit idly for autoattack at all, but is in a constant state of swapping kits for the hardest hitting/most useful 2-5 skills of their kits and rifle, so taking bombs for its autoattack dps, even if it is one of the highest in the game, is unnecessary, even if there was a spot in the build for it.

Now, that being said, if you’re not doing orginized speed clears, you would be perfectly fine with a Bomb Kit engi, and I doubt anyone pugging with you would complain (unless something goes wrong and they start blaming you for their own shortcommings, of course)

I use rifle + bomb kit + tool kit + mines rotation with SD and its quite easy rotation with like 14k dps. Ofc I dont use bomb 1 whole time its like 3x AA before rotation is ready to repeat. Meta build what you talking about is good dont get me wrong (I hope you talk about what ppl wrong call “DnT” build) but dps isnt top and rotation is more complicated than its neccessary with lot of space to mistakes like bad acid bomb interupt or blast dont do double dmg while in corner ect. And yes there are skills what has more dps than autoattack on single kit but kit swap take some time too and you simply loosing there.

Oh you’re the guy who commented on my engie video. If you aren’t using acid bomb you’re playing a low dps engineer build, period.

Bug report forum yo

stale.9785:

The guide is funny, but not practical. What actually happens now is the first moment you point out in party chat that you’re not stacking/skipping, you get kicked from the group you yourself started, and go back to waiting around for the next 4 randoms to join the group then kick you for not playing the “right” way.

Lies and/or exaggerations.

sorrychief.2563:

rofl, there are meta builds for pve? don’t let these DNT guys play for you.

Why wouldn’t there be? When a specific job can be done in multiple ways there is always going to be an optimal way and a suboptimal.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Yes, there’s group support in zerker teams. There are some specs that are better at it than Zerker though.

If your definition of “support” is healing and length of boon duration, sure. But let’s look at that…

1. Healing – group healing was intentionally designed to be weak because a powerful pure healer class would invalidate every attack in the game that wasnt a one hit kill with no skill required. Each class was given a personal healing skill with the intention to relient on themselves for healing.

2. Boon duration (passive stat) is not as important as boon timing (player skill). Who cares, for example, if the Aegis a full boon duration guardian casts last 35% longer than a berserker, because what really matters is if he uses the Aegis right before the massive attack that will wipe the group if they don’t avoid it. when it comes to defensive boons, having them get cast at the right time is infinitely more valuable than the raw amount of time they last. As intended player skill > passive stats.

The core tenet of real speed runs (not random bad berserker pugs) is CC + damage mitigation/avoidance + group DPS buffs. Most of these things are improved by taking the right traits and skills and not by passive stats. Thus, berserker specs are usually just as good at real support.

Don’t like the so-called berserker meta? I have a guide to help you.

TIL that you determine which engineer build is best by comparing the auto attacks you shouldn’t use from different kits.

Ohoni.6057:

If there is no incentive to sell things at a profit on the TP there will be serious supply issues and many items people want to buy will have no sellers. Unmet demand is a serious problem for an economy. Far worse than the middle class being unable to afford superfluous luxuries.

If there is demand, then people will supply it. If there is no demand, then people won’t supply those things, and players that have those things can just salvage or vendor them. There are thousands of items on the TP that sell for vendor prices, it’s not a big deal if more items do as well.

Yeah you’re a genius. So the point I was making is that if there is a demand, and adequate supply there will be money to be made on the trading post. You said people shouldn’t be able to make money on the trading post. If there is no profit to be made no one will supply the items.

InfernoHero.5687:

Flamethrower engi in soldier’s gear is fun

I do not believe that many people would agree with that opinion.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Right now 8000 dps is the most any class can do with a full condition spec, regardless of what gear you are wearing. But you are correct, it is not the maximum amount of dps any class can do.

Right now a Sinister s/s+longbow warrior with Runes of the Aristocrat and proper sigils will make about 10.5k dps in an organized group with max buffs. Solo this warrior can produce about 8.5k.

For reference, a meta berserker warrior makes about 12k in an organized group and 7.5k solo.

Meta crowd: the game as designed encourages players to wear increasingly glassier gear as they get more experience. We like this design and we like guild wars 2. We don’t care if people who wear tanky gear don’t like it, because they are free to wear tanky gear anyway and aren’t trying to stop them.

anti-meta crowd: We don’t like the game as designed. we want the game redesigned so that tanky gear is optimally efficient even at high player skill levels. We don’t care if these changes lower the skill cap of the game or invalidate someone else’s playstyle so long as our playstyle becomes optimal.

Conncept.7638:

If you want to join something and there are nothing but zerker parties, just join anyway, it is none of their bleeding business what your build is

You are free to do that. and they are free to kick you when they figure it out, and you ought not to be mad about it when it happens.

Ryn.6459:

hybrid.5027:

coglin.1867:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Ropechef.6192:

if you read the reddit thread you will also see the link to the spreadsheet.

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles

This is outdated. In no way at the moment a warrior’s dps is better than a ranger’s or an engi’s

Wait a second. You just berated me in a previous post and said….

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Those tests were made with meta builds, meta gear, and yes they are legit. If you don’t wanna believe it and delude yourself, go ahead, I’m not going to search for further proof. If you wanna do further research do it yourself. I just posted the truth. I couldn’t care less if you believe it or not.

Yet now you claim it is out dated and not factually accurate. Hypocrite much?

That is the same spread sheet in that thread I was referring too. What was the term you used for this situation? “Delude yourself” I think it was?

Yes, the spreadsheet in that thread was from the old meta. Since that spreadsheet was done…

1. Warriors got two distinct nerfs to their dps.
2. Rangers got a massive buff
3. We improved our Engineer DPS rotation further

DeKeyz has not published full updated data but that ranking…

Thief, ele, engineer, ranger, warrior, guardian, mesmer, necro is accurate. I’m not upset if you won’t take my word for it, but you can adjust it yourself if need be. Take the warrior numbers from that spreadsheet and subtract 2.5% direct dps. Take the ranger numbers and add about 15% direct dps. That change should be more the sufficient to explain the flip flop of those two professions. As far as engineer goes, Grenade barrage, Acid Bomb, Jump Shot, Blunderbuss is the most powerful burst dps in the game, and they have very high sustained DPS now thanks to Detonate Flame Blast.

-Nike

Im working in my engi rotations. In the meanwhile, do you know how much dps is lost for (lets say worst escenario) just nade spamming?

The difference between a gs warrior using 2-5 on cool down vs one who just auto attacks.

The magnitude of the difference being an issue is a matter of opinion. Personally, my position is everyone should learn to melee in PvE so they should increase the differences even more to encourage skillful play as much as possible.

Ranged weapons tend to be pretty well internally balanced. Warrior rifle has significantly better dps than longbow, but longbow provide pretty exception utility, just to cite one example.

fireflyry.7023:

Dungeon speed clears are about repetition and memory retention.

Skill?lol

It should be easy for you and your friends to memorize the super simple encounters and break every speed run record. And since no skill is required I’m sure you could easily beat the current no-skill Lupicus solo times for multiple professions.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NoTrigger.8396:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why should “all glass cannon” be the most efficient way to run every dungeon?

because
1. its the way with the highest risk involved
2. its the only way that makes full use of the combat system
3. its the only way that 100% depends on player skill, teamwork and nothing else.

1. Almost true. When you kill enemies before they can even fire off their third attack (and a GC ele can even tank the first two), not so much. That’s pretty close to the lowest risk.
2. Well, no it doesn’t. The “combat system” involves a lot of parts that never see use in speedruns currently, such as conditions, boon removal, snares, etc.. Balanced groups actually make closer to full use of the combat system.
3. Not so much “player skill” as “rotations”, but I will agree with teamwork. Enemies in dungeons are currently too simplistic for player skill to be a large factor. It relies more on the limitations of enemies rather than player skill.

As an aside, has anyone done speedruns of Aetherpath? I’m curious about that one because it does feature more challenging enemies.

1. Very few enemies in level 80 dungeons die before they get to attack. Step out of Ascalonian Catacombs please.

2. You must never have been in a speed run. Condition removal, boon removal (or prevention) and snares (in fotm) are all extremely important. When you watch a dungeon speed run record video it all happens very quickly and with lots of particle effects so I forgive you for not seeing what is happening, but believe me everything you cited exists in one encounter or another.

3. There is a reason why running with a guild group of players using speed run tactics and meta builds is better than running with pugs using speed run tactics and meta build. Player skill is quite important. And part of “good rotations” is being able to do all the supportive and control roles you are required to do without harming your dps. this is rather important. oh, and not dying which I’m told “bad zerkers” do a lot, so it can’t be that easy.

Yes, people do atherpath speed runs. Guess what? The mobs there are easy. No trash mob in atherpath is immune to blind and most dont have stability. They are easily killed by the holy trash trinity of Black Powder, Binding Blades and Ice Storm like trash in every other dungeon.

You want to know what aetherpath seems hard? Because, as far as i am aware, none of the main dungeon guilds have bothered to do an indepth video guide with encounter by encounter narration. As a result, the strategies we use in speed runs hasnt trickled down to the pug level as they have in other dungeons.