Guild Wars 2

Pyroatheist.9031:

My question is why bother with power at all? The only capacity for power damage you have is in the iWarlock, and that’s not enough to sacrifice condition damage in a primarily condition based build for.

All direct damage attacks still benefit from power. Even the staff auto-attack can hit hard at close range with crits and good power.

This is why I called the build “Hybrid” — all your DPS eggs are not in one basket. All it takes is a player with an extreme anti-condition build to make your life hard. This includes condition-removal builds as well as players running Melandru’s runes with Lemongrass soup.

Build I originally posted in the PU forum topic (yeah I know this editor is out of date — add 150 condition damage when looking at stats with scepter as active weapon set):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7flwzKqXVTsGb9IhpHBH5A/kCmLdSKK9rB-jgyAIMAcWkJPAUIIqAcOsIasVzioxqsx0wER1WdAA-e

Goals of build:

1. Attack Power >= 2600
2. Condition Damage >= 1000
3. Armor >= 3000
4. Crit rate >= 30%
4. Maximize stealth (and therefore PU)

Gear
Staff and Scepter/Torch (Carrion)
Rabid Armor with Runes of the Undead
Knights Jewelry
PVT Back (but whatever you want here really)

Some rationale behind the build:
Having 2600 attack power keeps direct damage decent.
Having 1000 condition damage doubles the DPS on most condition ticks (some increase more than 2x)
Having 3000 armor reduces incoming direct damage 14% over the reference of 2600 armor.
Crits are still useful as they’re +50% dmg even without stat bonuses and allows for on-crit sigils if you choose to go that route.

Pros:
- good condition damage
- good direct damage with reasonable crit chances
- good survivability with toughness, phantasm boons, and PU boons
- good escapability with stealth
- clones are like little bombs crippling and applying conditions upon death
- Phantasms will pack some hurt
- Torch skills will clear a conditions on use

Cons:
- OOC movement (i.e. swiftness) sucks (like every mesmer without special runes in WvW).
- Reduced clone output over a dodge-clone shatter build
- Infrequent shatters as the build rewards clone deaths (plus no c/d bonuses to F1-F4).
- Lacking the burst of a pure shatter build

Feedback welcome.

I’m looking at something like this now for WvW:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7flwzKqXVTsGb9IhpHBH5A/kCmLdSKU9rB-jgyAIMAcWkJPAUIIqAcOsIasVzioxqsx0wER1WdAA-e

Decent power (not amazing, but not trash either), decent condition damage (about 1000 with scepter which doubles damage on almost every condition), great armor, and lots of PU stealth.

EDIT: Yes I know that build editor is out of date — you’ll have to use your imagination a bit and add 150 condition damage when scepter is activated to envision the stats.

Pick an orange item you already know and craft it again (not discover, craft).

Although you should be able to discover your way to 400 without a problem. Did you “discover” six pieces of every insignia that became available at level 125?

I’d love to see this stat combination in the game. As far as which attributes are major/minor I think I’d be happy with any as long as I have the three together!

It’s possible that this combination might be OP, but should any combination of three really be OP if the game is balanced?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Yeah it’s ridonk-a-donk! I couldn’t believe the patch notes when I saw it.

Run 0/20/30/0/20 or 20/20/30/0/0 with torch, decoy, mass invis and you’ll see how good it is.

Though I’m considering running 0/20/30/20/0 to see how much of an impact the extra 150 condition damage does with scepter.

Also toying with new build ideas as well similar to 0/20/30/20/0 or 10/0/30/20/10.

One challenge is I don’t want a pure condition build — they are near worthless against a profession that sheds conditions like water, they are slow to kill lacking burst, foes can just run away, etc. I still want good power in the mix.

Maybe 10/0/30/30/0 — so many choices…

EDIT: any prof can seriously kitten a condi build by using Melandru runes and Lemongrass soup. It shouldn’t be that easy.

Agree with the OP on all points. Would like to see IC removed from the game and the skills adjusted accordingly. We have 20% wep c/d’s already (and the tooltips don’t update correctly with IC and wep c/d traits together).

On some of the other posts: Fighting two mesmers at the same time makes identification of the real mesmers very difficult. The battlefield becomes too noisy and different player models make it a “where’s waldo” exercise instead of a sesame street “one of these things is not like the others”.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

I don’t understand… How do you expect to kill people like this? Or is it just a troll build?

Stuff dies — not much I can say. I also mentioned it was WvW (which should be obvious with the Centaur runes and Mirror)

I didn’t post that build to show off or anything like that. Someone specifically asked how I built around PU, so I posted it. I have a comment in there that the gear doesn’t match the trait/skill build. However my gear provides a good amount of power so it doesn’t rely completely on conditions to burn someone down.

Feedback is there to support my team. NULL field for the same reason plus I use it offensively against bunkers and other heavy boon users.

I’m running this build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNArfWl0zKqXVTqGb9IipH9GyBcoUgdZXJF42FC-jExAZvioxWzKiGryGTDTEVDA-w

Tiny: http://tinyurl.com/ohnnvmk

Good survival — can make some good escapes.

I may move the 10 points out of “illusionary elasticity” since it’s not utilized by scepter/torch. I haven’t decided. I was using scepter/pistol but the torch prestige is too much fun.

EDIT: This build isn’t fine-tuned for scepter/torch and staff. All my gear is based upon a different build — I was just messing around tonight and was really enjoying PU. I’m going to work on it over the next week. If anyone comes up with some cool variations, please share.

it also works if someone else puts stealth on you…. just incredible.

…and +1 sec of stealth. Also there’s +30% boon duration from specing that deep.

MI, Viel, torch 4, decoy

love it in WvW

This trait is now amazing!

Chaos Storm would get quite a bit more powerful in an interrupt-traited build — do you agree?

Dawdler.8521:

Its a money sink unless you get lucky with the TP prices. The only way you can “earn” money by crafting is getting the raw materials yourself and sell what you craft. Such as farming orichalcum and making blades/hilts/whatever. If you got like 5 characters, you make maybe ~6-8g for a couple of hours work. You may earn something with the more expensive weapons (30-100g+), but this assumes someone actually buy them.

I don’t think you’d make more money than simply selling the raw materials by themselves.

That’s what many “crafters” don’t realize. There’s one player in our guild who crafts stuff and sells it while saying “the mats didn’t cost me anything, I farmed them…”. While technically accurate, he’s missing out on lost profits from just selling the mats instead.

It’ll take some courage to not run AH in WvW. I’ll have to wean myself slowly. I can’t have AH, GS, 2HM, Signets, and Virtues… too many choices.

PistolWhip.2697:

Human mind is also to factor here. Consider this, the two most hated professions in this game are Mesmer and Thief, this is undeniable, there stigma is very apparent all over the forums. I would think this is due to being very ‘cheese’ in their victories. Now I’ve played both so I don’t mean it in a demeaning way I more so mean, they have styles which are literally built to rob the other player of a victory, hence their unique lore-wise concepts too.

This was my favorite part of your post. I think it’s spot-on.

I smell a GS + Signet build in my future. Bane signet also received a buff.

Signet of Judgement: This ability now breaks stuns. Increased cooldown to 30s.

This one made me very happy. I assume the cast time drops from 0.25s to instant to support the stun break.

I almost always have this signet slotted with Signet Mastery — making that skill a 24s stun break.

Also it’s a weakness applier, and that’s a buff in itself with the changes to weakness.

Super-signet!

Mesmers are very mobile in combat (and that’s where it counts mostly). Out of combat we suck for passive run speed… but that’s another topic.

Taran Redleaf.7912:

One aspect about Torment I would like to know is how the mechanic works. Is Torment on a player for a certain amount of time and does damage for movement during that time? For example, Torment is placed on me. I take a step and stop – realizing that I have Torment on me. Does the whole condition “fire” off for taking one step, or did I only get partial damage and no more since I stopped?

What if I’m a mesmer and instead of “moving” like running, I blink. Does Torment do damage then? How about if I portal but stay standing still, do I take damage?

How about if I’m a thief and I shadowstep, but do not press #3 (no leaping), do I take damage for shadowstepping? How about if I’m not running, but just pressing #3, does Torment “fire” for each of my leaps (death blossom)?

I expect torment will be a very short duration condition — just like confusion. It’s very hard to keep confusion on a foe for a long time. Most mesmer condi applications melt off in 3-4 seconds. It’s hard to time for effect, so it generally just gets applied as a “side effect” to whatever else we’re doing (i.e. shatters).

If this is the case, then I expect torment to also be difficult to time for effect. It will just be spammed whenever it’s available with little regard for skilled play (because the reward is not sufficient).

arKRazor.8654:

As a ranged class I spend less than 5% of my time standing still in wvw. A stationary target is a free kill in small man combat, looking at you longbow rangers on this one.

Soooo true… I drool when I see longbow rangers standing still in WvW. Free badges!

It’s really the mechanic that’s over powered. Stealth in its current form is very difficult to play against. Same with mesmers and illusions — very hard to play against.

I think the skill floor for thieves is pretty high, and they should get rewarded for skilled play. However you don’t see the current GW2 stealth mechanic in any other game… I wonder why?

I like the idea of Torment. It’s analogous to Confusion except based upon movement rather than skill usage. Overall I think it’s quite clever and will be a fun mechanic. Another “shut-down” condition in the toolbelt of conditions.

I’m only concerned with the selection of professions that have access to it. I have a Mesmer and in-combat mobility is not an issue. Using Torment is not really necessary for a mesmer — it’s just DPS gravy. I feel similarly about thieves having Torment.

It really seems like a good condition for warriors and guardians. Warriors have disadvantages at range with a few gap-closers. Guardians are similar, and also have limited conditions at their disposal (you never see a condition guardian — no such option available!).

We don’t know the final implementation, or what “price” thieves and mesmers will have to pay to get Torment. Based upon previous experience, I don’t expect the best result in this first implementation.

Odokuro.5049:

I like working hard and farming those zones/dungeons for the “chance” of getting something amazing, how lame would it be if everyone was running around with legendary weapons, or pre-cursers just popping out of chests all the time. What I would like seen done is the spots people used to farm in droves to be slightly restored so thakittens worthwhile to be there and farm, because not everyone knows the ins and outs of the market and others would rather play the game than going zombie-mode infront of a tp npc for hours….

Getting a sweet RNG drop is very exciting. In GW1 is was awesome to get a black dye or a Superior Rune of Vigor — very.

Having a different experience from player to player for the same amount of “effort” is not very exciting. Example: My clover rate in the MF was 26%. My best friend’s was 30%. As a result I spent 40 more ectos, mystic coins, etc. Why? That’s where RNG is not any fun at all. This of course extends to MF use for precursors. Again not a good design.

Other games are very successful using a deterministic reward system for BIC gear. GW2 does this in many places, but not all.

I run a 0/15/30/20/5 build on my guardian for everything. I like it quite a bit.

The 15 points in radiance allows for blind on F1, recharge on F1 when something dies, and Signet Mastery. Since I run the healing signet and the damage reduction signet it plays nice.

When lots of things are dying, you can spam F1 a lot. This dishes out lots of blinds as well as lots of Might (from 5-pt Inspired Virtues trait). The Might then feeds back into AH.

Won’t stop a thief, mesmer, or ele stomp break. But it’s a good idea for stomping warrior, guard, engi. If they are smart they’ll tickle you once blinded then interrupt.

I think Torment should have been added to warrior and guardian over thief and mesmer. The former two are kited often and have limited sets of chase-down skills. The later two are already men in a field of boys when it comes to pvp class balance.

killahmayne.9518:

Playing as a warrior, it is extremely difficult to beat a great mesmer despite knowing how they work. Especially against cheesy phantasm builds.

With other classes like certain ranger builds and necros they aren’t so difficult.

Fighting a mesmer however is more challenging then any other class because they have two of the hardest mechanics to fight against. Clones and stealth, plus they have their blocks, teleports and invulnerabilities.

Constantly having to retarget the right mesmer is very annoying and really cuts your effectiveness.

Not necessarily OP, but they have a wide array of utilities and skills that can make them amazing at almost any role.

Exactly what I was saying earlier. It’s the mechanic that’s hard to play against. It’s inherently challenging. Same with stealth.

Nobody quakes at a ranger pet, a necro death shroud, engineer kits… whatever. Those mechanics are not hard to understand and they do not require special skilled play to surmount.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Two of the game’s strongest duelist gets exclusive access to the new condition , punishing those who make a subtle attempt at movement whilst they’re insanely mobile and potent in trickery.

#Keyboardturnersrejoice!

Yeah agree. I think warriors should have gotten torment instead of thieves and mesmers. Arguably maybe guardians but they are already in a good place. Thieves have no issue getting to a mobile class and jumping them from behind so I’m not sure why torment was added to their arsenal.

Vol.5241:

The new torment condition gives an unfair advantage to ranged classes. They should have just kept the way things are right now and stick with buffing confusion instead, since confusion is non-discriminatory among classes and melee/ranged

It will work both ways. A ranged class will take damage trying to kite you, just like you’d take damage trying to catch a kiter. I think we’ll have to see how it plays out.

The disappointing part of Torment is that it’ll be limited to thieves, mesmers, and necros. Two of those classes didn’t really need a buff by getting Torment. I think there were better choices including warrior.

@Darkace:

As I read it, I thought they are removing stun breakers from some of the cantrips. That’s your nerf, nothing else should be touched on them otherwise (based upon the article).

This is good news as I don’t want to be forced into a cantrip build for WvW (which I currently am).

Other MMOs have a reward system for performing difficult team-based content (be it raids, or otherwise). That’s a non-RNG system — and for good reason. Why do you think players continue to do LotRO, WoW, etc. long after the burn through the content. Because there’s a BIC gear treadmill and it’s rewarded by playing max-tier content (difficult max-tier content).

GW2 has these rewards as well in the form of dungeon tokens (including the daily fractal relic). Those are good systems. You put in a known amount of effort and you get a known reward. It’s deterministic.

I don’t mind RNG for some aspects of the game, including loot drops. What I despise is RNG for BIC gear.

The BIC gear should always be obtainable in a deterministic fashion (i.e. reward tokens, crafting, etc). An example where GW2 did this right: Ascended gear for fractal relics. An example where GW2 did this wrong: Ascended gear as a random drop from a daily fractal chest.

A precursor is essentially the BIC gear for weapons. You need it for legendary which will morph into ascended quality at some point. You can argue otherwise as it’s just an “exotic” but it’s the defining piece of a long legendary grind. It’s also the most expensive piece (except maybe fore 750 charged lodestones for bifrost — omfg).

Anyway, as I mentioned in another post: don’t expect the scavenger hunt to magically make things perfect. Based upon how things have gone so far, expect it to be a grueling grind-infused exercise. Something that’ll make you run to the MF with your stack of yellow greatswords….

The hours played is amazing for some of you players!

I have 1026 hrs over the last 9 months and that’s caused me plenty of wife-agro. I can’t imagine 3000-4000 hours.

RNG is horrible for something like a precursor (as we all know).

However wait until you see the scavenger hunt — there’s a reason it’s taking so long to produce. It’s going to make you beg for RNG again, trust me.

EDIT: Oh yeah, no precursor in my 1000+ hrs… not a sniff. I haven’t been with any other player during that 1000 hours who received one either — so that makes my data point like 6000+ hrs without a precursor.

The spear auto-attack is a 600m ranged single-target attack.

We already have a single target (or weak multiple target bouncy attack) on the trident.

I would love the spear to be a more melee oriented weapon with more multi-target aoe at close range. The auto-attack could be reduced in range and changed to the standard AoE three mobs, melee type.

Actually I drifted off in the wave of text… but now that I’ve reread it, why do you want to do this again?

You have the knockback on 5 which is a nice skill, why kitten it and make it a simple aoe attack?

You essentially made 5 worse, made 4 the same as the old 5, and lost all boon stripping (meager as it was).

Yeah you can argue that 5 does more damage overall now, but I already do a lot of damage with other skills. I would prefer we have the utility the skills bring, rather than just aoe damage.

GS already has a knockdown on 5. There’s a cripple with the phantasm on 4.

The boon strip is rather valuable in some situations.

My complaint would be more of the lock-in-place to use it, or the horrible small aoe-circle. Fix those and it enters the realm of awesome.

This has been beaten up many times in the past.

Mesmer is the slowest out-of-combat movement class, period. We have the fewest Memser-specific options for OOC speed. Those are:

(1) Focus (optionally spend trait points for 20% more uses)
(2) Signet with a lucky random chance at a 10s swifness buff

That’s it. All other options available are also available to other professions — they aren’t part of the discussion on Mesmer movement speed.

You can argue that “it’s not needed”, “we’re already OP”, “some other non-sensical logic”, whatever. We are the slowest OOC with the most limited options, period.

Korrigan.4837:

…There’s some things like housing and mounts that I hope to see in GW2 someday, but other things like raiding that would make me quit immediately.

Seriously?

Raiding would make you quit because?!?!?!?

I’m surprised you play GW2 at all tbh… I mean there must be at least one thing in GW2 you don’t like… yet you still play?

Just to be clear, I’m not saying 2HM will provide more damage than EM. My posts above state as much.

My point is 2HM brings some nice stuff to the table that I think out-weigh the few extra might stacks (and corresponding AH ticks) you get from EM — that’s all.

At range I’ve found the best AoE tagging options are:

1. iZerk, mirror blade, shatter
2. Lucky procs of GS + Sigil of Fire
3. Feedback (when not on c/d)

Single target at range is easily the GS auto-attack.

Staff is too slow of an auto-attack to tag much at range. Dolyaks for example will die before the projectile even arrives — and if it does arrive often one hit won’t be enough to count as a “tag”.

In melee you have more options for AoE tagging.

Clones and Stealth are harder to play against than any other class mechanic. Disagree, then pick one and try to argue it.

In addition, I think the skill floor on Mesmer is pretty low. It’s not hard to execute a shatter operation, summon three phantasms, use decoy/blink/etc. I’m not saying you aren’t rewarded for skilled play, just that you don’t have to try too hard to be effective as a Mesmer.

Considering these two points, Mesmers definitely have a leg up in PvP/WvW over other classes (the same argument can be made for thief).

When I play against another mesmer or a thief, I have to play hard. I’m on the edge of my seat trying to win those fights. Against any other class I don’t work nearly as hard. That doesn’t mean I win against every other class — it means I don’t have to work as hard to do it when it happens (and yeah it means I win against those other classes more often than I win against thief/mez).

It’s really not a discussion on nerfing skills since the imbalance is really integral to the class-specific mechanic (i.e. illusions/stealth). They are cool mechanics and a lot of fun to play, but obviously these are a notch above other classes in PvP.

Embolism.8106:

If you stay in melee range then you’re essentially face tanking everything. Things like Chaos Storming you and your target requires you to stay in melee range for only a while, and you usually have other defences up to compensate for the face tanking anyway (e.g. Chaos Storm). An effective Staff Mesmer (previously) flits in and out of melee range, closing in only when it suits them. If you always stay in melee range then you’d be taking far more damage than you need to, plus you won’t be taking full advantage of the Staff’s best defensive skill: Phase Retreat.

Besides, unlike PvE mobs PvP opponents do not always stand there and let you hit them, they’d be moving around too; and you might not be able to hug them all the time. I don’t think I need to explain the advantages of having the option of ranged combat over being forced into melee.

Yes I understand that — I sorta thought it was obvious. Saying that I like staff for melee doesn’t imply face-tanking, nor standing there like an idiot getting wailed on. You need to get into melee if you want to take full advantage of the self-shatter, 30pt mez trait.

My point was a counter to a pure mid-range use of the staff. Consider also using the staff in melee against non-melee opponents — again very effective.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Tarsius.3170:

Webba.3071:

I suspect, though I have no evidence for it, that the 20% less CD is by far most useful for the staff. I am not as familiar with the hammer as I should be, if you can get 100% prot uptime without the trait then its probably about the same as the gs.

The trait will give you the ability to proc retaliation off every single symbol of protection. You can using Mighty Blow after every auto attack chain, instead of every 2 chains, so it offers a shade more than the 20% dps increase the trait implies.

2HM actually has absolutely zero effect on hammer DPS. In the worst case, it’s actually negative. Interrupting your auto-attack chain to use Mighty Blow actually causes you to lose substantial amounts of DPS; you should only be using it after completing a full chain. As such, Mighty Blow’s effective cooldown is basically fixed at 7.5 seconds; you can only do it every two auto-attack chains, so it doesn’t matter whether it becomes available after four seconds or five.

The same applies to staff. Orb of Light does not benefit from 2HM because the trait reduces the recharge to 2.4s, which is pointless because you can only do it every three seconds anyway if you want to avoid interrupting your auto-attack and losing DPS. Meanwhile, traiting cooldowns on Symbol of Swiftness and Empower is useless because the cooldowns on those skills are between 10 and 20 seconds, which means they will always be available every time you swap back to the staff anyway. You absolutely should not ever be sitting on staff constantly in a PvE scenario, that’s just dumb.

In fact, the same principle applies to greatswords too, if you are running the standard burst-and-switch rotation; the only skill that benefits from 2HM is Whirling Wrath. Otherwise, traiting Symbol or Binding Blade makes no tangible difference as to your rotation. And before you bring it up, you will get more DPS from unloading your greatsword skills on untraited cooldown then swapping to hammer or sword for ten seconds while they recharge, than you will just sitting on greatsword on traited cooldown.

And again, it’s not 20%, it’s 5% even in the best case. That’s about how much you can expect the greatsword to benefit in terms of overall DPS. It’s only going to be a 20% DPS advantage if ALL your skills have a cooldown and are instant-cast, and that’s never the case.

Sorry but I disagree — you’re over simplifying it.

There are situations where you will not switch weapons every time the weapon cooldown is up.

The 2HM is 20% more symbols, 20% more Empowerment, 20% more line of warding, 20% more everything. That’s 20% more AH from utilities that give out boons.

If you are constantly swapping weapons, your arguments on DPS are a bit different. You’re interrupting your DPS auto-attack chain on hammer/GS to switch to staff.

So loss of DPS from hitting more hammer #2’s for example is not a fair example when throwing weapon swapping into the mix. It’s a valid comparison when just staying in hammer to begin with. In that case you then have to look at the 20% more frequent boon application, etc. Using #2 is an AoE boon applier for retaliation, as well as a fast recharging blast finisher — yeah you prolly know that, but 20% improvement on that is useful.

If you are in staff longer than the weapon swap duration, now you have 20% more empowerment uses. That in itself may offset the might stacks from EM.

Both skills are good, but there’s no clear winner imho. I find more value in 2HM across the weps I use (hammer, staff, GS, trident, spear).

You can get near perma-swiftness with Centaur runes and Mirror as a heal. That would decouple you from the reliance on mantras. Mirror is also quite spectacular in WvW with the reflect and short c/d.

I like mantras when rolling with the +4% dmg per mantra trait, but otherwise I prefer to slot glamours in WvW. When solo roaming maybe mirror images and decoy (although mantras can be quite useful in solo roaming).

Totally agree on NULL field as an offensive weapon. It really excels against guardians, bunker ele’s, and bunker engi’s.

Also staff is not really a good “ranged” weapon. It is excellent in melee or near-melee situations.

I could see reducing the duration of the skill, but that duration reduction should come with a loss of “moa skills”.

If you think Moa makes you helpless, then let’s change the skill so you are truly helpless. Change the duration to five seconds. If it’s also an immobilize, then maybe 4s.

If I wan’t an insta-win button, it certainly isn’t moa. Especially when the foe can just turn tail and run away.

But meh… if you don’t agree, you don’t agree.

I’d prefer players whine about Moa to draw attention away from other skills.

I like the idea of “game metrics” in GW2. This includes many metrics like:

- DPS
- Damage Taken
- Self Healing
- Group Healing
- Damage Avoided

I’m sure people can add more to that list. While no set of metrics will perfectly address “am I a skilled player?” having metrics are important for self improvement.

Self improvement should be something everyone strives for (not just in-game). Metrics provide a mechanism to do such a thing.

Then we could have awesome arguments around data rather than opinions of how great we are (or are not).

Achievement completed with only one 1st place finish. I received credit for two 3rd place finishes.

It triggered on those 3rd place finishes when they were the very first race after zoning. Maybe that’s the bug.

Zone – race – get winning circle credit — repeat.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

EM is one of the guardian’s better traits if you have nothing else to put in that slot. It is better than Writ of Persistence or Two-Handed Mastery for greatswords (both are worth about 5% extra damage, same as EM, except EM gives that +5% to the entire party). Even for something like hammer (where Writ of Persistence is mandatory), it’s still worthwhile if you have 30 in Honor. A lot of the time there simply isn’t anything else worth taking with your remaining 10 points, i.e. in a 10/30/0/20/0 spread, you may not need Master of Consecrations and you won’t get as much mileage out of 10 more in Valor or Zeal.

For raw damage EM is better than 2H Mastery — but that’s not really a good comparison. 2H Mastery provides many other tangible benefits that outweigh EM imho.

I haven’t slotted Moa in forever… mass invis and time warp are far superior (even solo).

OP should be smarter about picking fights — next time pick a skill that’s actually over powered like portal.