Guild Wars 2

colesy y u so mean ;_;

Iris Ng.9845:

maha.7902:

how to mesmer in dungeons

re-roll to guardian

:D

For the love of Sandy, I banish you!

On a serious note, can someone please tell me what make wardens not spin when summoned?

I think the most reliable “tell” that wardens won’t spin is a ground-slope. If you’re on flat ground with no rocks or anything, it’ll spin 99% of the time. If you have a slight slope, or little rocks which make small slopes, you’re likely to encounter the bug.

Eventually you just learn where to expect it to bug out. Uncategorized Fractal, except for Old Tom and the 4 Champions? It’ll bug out, especially on the boss. CoF p2, killing the burrow things? Guaranteed bug. etc.

If you’re splitting hairs about accuracy vs perception, do yourself a favor and get ranger runes instead of Traveller. That’s going to make a much bigger difference in your damage.

GS warrior is not selfish. Banners, FGJ, Empowe Allies, and potentially Phalanx Strength means a berserker GS warrior is a huge amount of support. A GS Mesmer is selfish, as ranging in order to stay alive when the rest of your time is meleeing and sharing boons, slows down your team and only benefits your own survivability— that is selfish. Mesmers who are team players use swords.

relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAUY1J8KizU&feature=kp

but on a serious note, props to OP for listening! <3

For PvE, Ranger and Scholar are your best options. Ranger is slightly better if you have have trouble staying above 90% health. Remember to keep a mini-pet out to proc the Ranger bonus.

Take a look at the dungeon FAQ, linked at the top of this forum.

You can follow the link in my sig for some discussion on this for phantasm builds. For phantasm, even without taking into account that reflects are better when you have more precision, Assassin’s weapons and armor is preferred.

Not sure about shatter, but without the bleed-on-crit from phantasms, I’m guessing that Berserker will be your better option.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Why do you have Signet Mastery with no Signets?

Because it’s easier to flip in Signet of Ether when I need it. None of the other traits are any good, though the option to shatter with Mind Wrack for extra burst at the end of a fight, as frifox suggests, is possible.

pdavis.8031:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Actually, that’s wrong.
Traits usually enhance a weapon type, an ability or add an extra effect to it.
Mesmers, for example, go somewhat deep in Inspiration to get Warden’s Feedback. Each trait point in that branch grants the Mesmer 50 Vit and 50 Healing Power.
You wouldn’t argue that Vitality and Healing Power increases DPS, would you? Of course not, it’s about Utility.

Guardians’ Honor branch does that too, yet many Guards clad in Berserker gear spend points in it.

Traits and weapon combinations determine your playstyle; their stats complement it.

While this is true, a “build” includes armor, weapons, trinkets, traits, and utilities (skills). “Gear” includes armor, weapons, and trinkets. So for a traditional DPS beresker build, one would (presumably) need beserker gear (beserker stats armor/weapons/trinkets); A trait set up of 6/6/0/0/2 (or similiar) with the various traits complimenting their weapons of choice (i.e. forceful greatsword, slashing power, etc. if using a GS)

So while there is a technical distinction between a build and gear, the term “zerker build” or “soldier build” generally refers to the gear and the traits being used, and is often used interchangably with each other.

Yes, but the point is that no one runs 6/6/0/0/2 for guardians, for example. Even for warriors 4/6/0/4/0 is common in organized groups. Neither of these are the maximum “personal” DPS, but instead sacrifice damage for useful group utility. That’s where diversity lies in this game— do you want hammer guard for more defense, or s/f+gs for more damage and different utility? Do you sacrifice damage as an elementalist so you can might stack better for your team (6/6/0/0/2 is not the maximum DPS build for an ele, it’s the best might-stacking build!). You can continue to pretend to not hear us, but already half a dozen people have told you: there are many different builds which all use berserker (or assassin’s) gear.

Wearing berserker gear just says you’re ready to play hard-mode: no passive defense. Choosing your class, weapons, and traits after that are how you determine your role and play-style.

Jerus.4350:

THanks both of you, that’s basically what I was thinking (though much more detailed) but i just saw the synergy available there with both reflecting and faster attacking wardens. Giving up far more than you’re gaining especially when you consider that 100% reflect uptime is still possible without the faster attacking. Just thought maybe it had a use, but I couldn’t think of one.

The 2/4/0/4/4 is what you’re after, as draconx suggested— sacrificing the 200 power and 12% personal damage is better than the tradeoffs we discussed above. Definitely still a good consideration, though!

Jerus.4350:

Awesome guide, most every question I had was answered. So recharge traits do stack? that’s good to know.

I’m curious, is 60044 ever worthwhile? PH + Reflecting wardens seems like it’d be nice coverage for reflects, but you lose the precision bonuses of the dueling tree. Is it worth it?

Also, you mention that the 64004 build has a negative of longer reuse on wardens, wouldn’t it be the same as the 64040 build you list for reflects as you lose the illusion minor but gain the warden’s feedback? Only 60044 should be better in that regard right?

draconx had some really nice points, on this, but I’ll add a bit.

Phantasmal Fury, in dueling, is a must have— it’s the only way for your phantasms to get Fury, which is a 20% critical chance bonus, which is absolutely necessary for them (actually they can get fury from other sources, but all other sources cap at 5 and prefer players, so in dungeons your phantasms will never get fury from the party). Moreover, you get the minor in dueling for free when you take that, which gives 50% vigor uptime. This helps a ton in survivability. Final, Blade Training, gives an extra 50 precision and reduces the cooldowns on Blurred Frenzy, Illusionary Riposte, and Phantasmal Swordsman to ridiculously low levels. Again, it’s a huge defensive advantage to have low cooldowns on these, and your precision goes up by 250 compared to a build with 0 in dueling— that’s like a full set of Perception stacks from back in the day, and is basically another 20% critical chance for you and your phantasms.

So, you get a huge amount of defensive options, 20% personal critical chance, and 40% phantasm critical chance, from just 4 points. It’s really hard to argue against this, even if you’re not in reflect-heavy situations.

Wyrden.4713:

but isnt iSwordman dmg better than iDuelist over time cause of attack frequency?

i always thought thats the case

Yes, that’s why the DPS numbers are basically the same. I guess once you take into account the bleeds, which people have ignored previously but frifox included, duelist is 1% better.

pdavis.8031:

@OP

After much discussion with and about the Beserker community, I have discovered that it’s not the gear/build that is the issue. The reason why Beserker is the meta, and stacking and DPS is the prefered tactic for dungeons is simply because the Boss fight mechanics are flawed. Stacking in a corner prevents most bosses from doing a massive AoE attack, which means it can be taken down quicker and easier. The Spider Queen was a good example of this. Now she will use her AoE regardless of stack and requiring different tactics. Also the quicker Bosses can be taken down, means that most will not have the opportunity to use their party wiping attacks. The fix to this, and to make more builds “viable” (they already are btw, not OPTIMAL but VIABLE), they need to fix the mechanics. Instead of nerfing beserkers, or buffing other builds, why not make the boss do a massive party wipe AoE attack where players are stacked? Or have the Boss attack more frequently? With more attacks coming sooner, Beserkers will break like the glass they are as they can only dodge so much. Just some ideas.

Again, the reason Beserker became the meta, was because of broken boss mechanics, thus rendering anything else useless, Nerfing it, or buffing other builds, or even the boss won’t change it. The mechanics need to be fixed to achieve any kind of balance in PvE.

Stop spouting “stacking prevents boss attacks.” Stop stop stop. Kholer uses his most powerful AoE attacks. Alpha uses his most powerful AoE attacks. Lupi uses his most powerful AoE attacks. Destroyer of Worlds, dredge bombers, Tezza, Frost (except on the stupid pug hill), Howling King, Ghost Eater, Leurant, Alphard, whatever— just about every boss of worth is able to use their most powerful attacks when you stack (I think Colossus Rhomblus in the stupid pug stacking spot in ACp3 is the only one that doesn’t anymore).

Stacking lets you DPS faster, which means you are less vulnerable to these attacks. But the attacks themselves happen! They are just prevented by things like dodges, evades, and blocks.

gahhhhhh

Another solution: go play a game with less action-oriented combat, instead of ruining this one

deSade = grumpy cat confirmed

Warden is no good for damage— the advantages it has are entirely in utility (AoE damage, projectile absorption/reflection). Swordsman and duelist are preferred in terms of single target DPS by far, with Swordsman coming out ahead by a bit. If you are fighting a boss where you don’t need the Warden’s utility, it is almost always worthwhile to switch to pistol.

First build I got

I guess it’s slightly better than running 0/0/0/0/0?

Anyway it’s an amusing site. Visually very nicely put together. Would indeed be a real challenge to run some of these…

DigitalKirin.9714:

maxinion.8396:

When I played a different game on an RP-centric world, it was entirely expected that you think of your character as something “outside yourself” with their own desires/emotions/etc. You obviously shape those things, and their personalities, but asking “what would my character do in this situation” was the order of the day, not “what should I do in this situation.” That’s half the fun— you get to react to things in a way you personally never would, and experience the world quite differently than “yourself.”

Absolutely one of the greatest joys of tabletop D&D, as well.

Exactly. This was actually an online implementation of DnD that I was playing

DigitalKirin.9714:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Interesting survey: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Research-about-MMO-players-and-avatars/first#post4110858

I felt a little uncomfortable with some of the questions. Seemed very weird. But it’s for science I guess.

I just took it. I can understand why, some of the questions were framed that way, though. You have to consider that her audience is going to be quite broad. Some people might view their characters as totally separate people, and some people might view their characters as themselves, and then there are people in the spectrum inbetween.

Some questions will speak to some people, and other questions will speak to others… and the rest of the questions will just be awkward. :P

When I played a different game on an RP-centric world, it was entirely expected that you think of your character as something “outside yourself” with their own desires/emotions/etc. You obviously shape those things, and their personalities, but asking “what would my character do in this situation” was the order of the day, not “what should I do in this situation.” That’s half the fun— you get to react to things in a way you personally never would, and experience the world quite differently than “yourself.”

lulz. Anyone want to summarize what he gets wrong?

haviz.1340:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Untraited wardens destroy everything, though.

Till the fix.

they…… they wouldn’t dare…..

A++, thanks KillerAngel

3 hours in, on Grenth

A++

Ooh ooh I know I know

GS mesmer!

For PvE, healing is just as bad as ever.

you gonna dieeeee

Eucalyptus.9784:

Hmm… life without Blink sounds dreary and non-fantastic, but in PvP it hasn’t really helped me all that much lately in truth. I don’t know the maps well enough for Portaling, but always a time to learn I guess.

I’d probably sooner drop Decoy than Blink though. Maybe I can get away with dropping Decoy for HP Signet, and Null Field for Disenchanter. Never really used Disenchanter, but conditions have been destroying me lately so might be a good time to start.

My only worry is, if I’ve got a Swordsman and Zerker already out, and I use Disenchanter, and then throw a Mirror Blade… is there a priority system for which one it’s going to replace? I guess it doesn’t really matter, it would just be nice if Disenchanter was at the top of the list to not be overwritten. I guess it’s only got a 16s cooldown traited though..

Pretty sure it’s the first phantasm that goes in that case, but Pyro will surely know.

maha.7902:

portal consumable

rip mesmer

y u do this to me colesy

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Jerus.4350:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

haviz.1340:

DigitalKirin.9714:

I would kite any projectile aimed at me into a teammate and then use his downed body as a “shield”, ressing him just enough to survive another hit if necessary. >.>;

…

I wonder if Warrior’s riposte/shield would block it and mesmer’s scepter/sword would block as well?

When projectile is unreflectable it usually means it’s unblockable as well.

Untraited wardens destroy everything, though.

Shield of the Avenger destroys as well, do you know if that works the same? Can’t say I have used it heavily outside of a few situations where it has worked fine, usually WoR is the go to and gets the job done very well.

SoA doesn’t do anything to unreflectable stuff.

Destroying that kind of projectiles seems to be the only niche unique to mesmers right now.

dat portal as well

Assassin’s for mesmer weapons always always.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

deSade.9437:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

EcoRI.9273:

Grawl Shaman in Volcanic Fractal is probably one of my favorite Boss fights because you can’t cheese him. There is no where to Stack there is no LOS spot, its just perfect.

And every single casual hates it.

I just hate it because it highly favors classes with reflects.

Of course.

Poor warriors. (That’s it right? Everyone else has a reflect? necromancer isn’t a thing)

Warriors have everything else though. :/

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Missile_Deflection

Stephen McBeaven.5640:

To me, both sides of the stacking debate seem to be saying the same thing two different ways.

Anti-stacking people: “Stacking is no fun and needs to be fixed. Here are some ideas about how to change the mechanics to fix it.”

Anti-anti-stacking people: “NO! Stacking is the natural result of the game’s mechanics!”

Am I missing something?

You’re missing this part:

Anti-stacking: “We do not enjoy stacking. Please change the game for everyone.”

Pro-stacking: “Make your own groups— you don’t have to stack. You can play how you want, and we can play how we want.”

Rasimir.6239:

So I did fractals level 34 with my regular fractal group last night, and got told off by our (wvw-)warrior for using one-handed swords in close quarters instead of the proper mesmer weapon greatsword sigh.

Is there any group on EU willing to adopt a moderately lousy mesmer (or ranger, or possibly even ele or guard) eager to learn and improve in the art of dungeon running? I guess I’m pretty good at picking up the theories, but slow at putting it into practice, so might require some patience .

It’s a sad day when you realize that you’ve outgrown your friends that taught you all the basics of dungeon running …

It’s always a wonderful sight to see a mesmer outgrow his greatsword. Congratulations!

Fay.2357:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsaRlsnpMtNoxGNUrRiqhc2mPRZ30kKQ56A

This is what I use, and it’s highly effective (use standard all zerker gear for it, I use double energy sigils).

The idea is that spamming mantra of pain allows you to keep your health up. Mender’s purity combined with the heal mantra and the condition removal mantra gives you tons of condie removal to clean up the cripple and weakness in phase 2. Warden’s feedback with focus allows you to use the warden and temporal curtain to block her attacks in phase 1. Temporal curtain also provides swiftness for better mobility.

Just spam mantra of pain and use temporal curtain to block her attacks in phase 1, while getting orbs down. In phase 2, run in circles with greatsword attacking her and spawning iZerkers right after a shadowfall. Use a condie clear to clean up any dangerous conditions you have on you, and make sure you watch for the orb that yanks you and kill it quickly with mantra of pain or a gs attack.

This is similar to what I used. I also put on Restorative Mantras (dropping the 2 from dom and putting them into dueling and inspirations), and use the Mantra of Recovery. Between charging my mantras (recovery and pain) I had a ton of heals, and tons of condition clear. I found the cripple on iZerker was also fantastic in keeping away.

I actually ended up switching to sword for the offhand though— the block provides an interesting alternative to more cripple (in that you can block a leap very easily with this), and the swordsman is more useful in putting out damage.

Double energy sigil + endurance food was super helpful as well.

But anyway, Pyro’s strategy is basically what I’ve seen a lot of successful players doing, though the details can vary as discussed.

But not if you’re leveling your PR. You only get a chest for the max PR level you have. So since my PR is 35, I can get a box for 31-40 (it will only be as good as a 35 box even if I do a 38 or 39), but if I then also do a 49, it won’t give me a box— my daily 31-40, which this counts as, is already done.

Congrats Goshawk, go [GOON]!

That’s normal. Ranger down skills are OP.

The trick with your down 2 is to try to time it to move just as the stomp is coming down. It won’t always work, but you have a chance to prevent the stomp.

I wouldn’t say he’s assuming they’re accurate: they’re the simplest thing which explains his quite detailed and complete observations. Leave it to ANet to be inconsistent and get ele tooltips wrong, and Mesmer more correct.

Fay.2357:

maha.7902:

A few months ago there was an age of enlightenment in this subforum where people were forced to accept that greatsword is bad for dungeons – so maybe that enlightenment has filtered down in to pug groups.

I can’t remember what my exact numbers were, but GS @ 900> range was like 60% of 1h sword’s dps – and then if you include the fact that duelist and swordsmen are higher dps phantasms than berserker, it pulls ahead even further.

“berserker” isn’t good enough, you should be using the right weapons.

At least personally, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I won’t ever kick someone on sight, I’ll at least give them a chance to fight the first boss and see what happens. That being said, if I see a mesmer using Scepter/torch + staff during a boss fight, I’ll kick them immediately afterwards, and I’ll tell them why. I’m accepting up to a certain point, but I’m not willing to drag random pugs through dungeons for no reason whatsoever.

saw a pug running torch in AC yesterday

speed run zerker exp group

qq

guanlongwucaii.3162:

IvanTheGrey.2941:

…male, heterosexual…

answered your own question lol

i heard it phrased once as “if you’re going to be looking at your character’s kitten most of the time it’s better to be looking at a female one”

exactly this

3
2
10

Go [GOON] go! (says the [SFD] member)

Ropechef.6192:

Iris Ng.9845:

I leveled from 25 to 50 by purely leeching off my group with 38-40 and 49. God save my soul!

Dont feel bad,

I have to PuG.

and at 3 am NA, its really hard to find a group.

this cramps my plans….

As i have a personal standard I am trying to achieve. And a guild i wan to apply for, but I need to get to 50. Which then begets the question. Having reached 50 purely as a PuG an accomplishment unto itself. what does that say of my ability and my “toolbox” if you will….

much ponder….

We’ll run more with you chef! Was fun so far

Rampager is better than Rabid, but the Warlock will still be better with Berserker because Ferocity transfers to the Warlock and he’ll hit harder. None of his damage is condition based, so he gets nothing from condition damage gear.

Casual groups don’t care about berserkers anyway, so just stick with those if you want to run something eclectic. Or stick with open world.

And there are many ways for us ‘hardcore’ folks to tell what build someone is running (sigils, signets, stacking type, weapon choice, approximate damage output, how much damage they take from a hit, etc.). But again, stay away from “speed run” or “zerker only” groups and no one cares.

I’ll add— there’s quite a bit of build diversity available for all classes. Customization exists along many axes, and because there is a consistent choice along one set of decisions, does not mean choice is completely eliminated. And, almost all games have an “optimal” choice at the end of the day, no matter how diverse the build system. Anyway, for mesmers, you can check the link in my sig and see the current popular berserker builds— they’re all similar, but there are 5 or more different choices, and quite a few more choices inside each of those.

Veprovina.4876:

maha.7902:

Veprovina.4876:

I know berserker builds only use swords… I use both Sword/Focus and Greatsword… Sometimes Sword/Pistol… I don’t plan on using this build in dungeons, just general PvE i guess…

So basically what you’re saying is, conditions are useless? kitten …
Is berserker the only build that does any damage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tssCh7xThQE

…conditions not so useless

you just need to be solo and have a way to apply them heavily which a mesmer doesn’t

I wouldn’t say a mesmer can’t apply conditions a lot… My playstile use to be, pump conditions on something then summon a Phantasmal Warlock for massive damage… And when that something has more health, i can summon more Warlocks to do their stuff. Then i just added a trait that gives phantasms more health.

Staff skill 1 gives conditions and skill 5 adds ton of them. Pair that with the trait that makes them last longer and it’s more viable to use Warlock for damage. Also, a signet that adds condtition damage is nice too…

All in all, i haven’t had the experience that conditions from a mesmer are bad. Maybe other classes can do more damage with them, sure, but if nothing else, Warlocks do a lot of damage especially in parties or any group content when people pump conditions on a target. Maybe something changed from the last time i played a (kinda) condition mesmer but i found it enjoyable.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much damage 3 Warlocks can do, even when solo, but they’re better in parties. Maybe not now since everyone and their mother plays berserker, but still.

Basically anything on a scepter or a staff adds some kind of condition, and scepter 2 torment is always nice to have on an enemy. :P And torch has a Mage phantasm that adds confusion.

Staff skill is nice to have to boon your party (not quite the guardian boons but that’s not what mesmers are for anyway).

The problem with iWarlock and condition damage is that Warlock does… more damage if you go with Berserker (or Assassin’s). He gets 10% bonus per condition— but it doesn’t matter how many stacks there are, or how much those are doing. His own damage is purely power based. If you go with Rampager’s or Rabid to buff your condition damage, your Warlock is doing way less than it could be. And you can apply conditions just as well with Berserker, even if you don’t deal much damage with them.

Anyway, “good” condition builds (like warriors and necros) are able to do things like capping bleeds and poisons themselves. Mesmers can probably do that if they stack a few Duelists, at least with bleeds. But we don’t have a reliable way of stacking other useful conditions, and the bleeds are all rather short. Can it work? Well, sure, anything ~can~ work in open world. But it’ll be slower than it could be, which is up to you to decide if you can accept.

DE helps you instantly pump out 3 illusions for the p1→p2 transition. His AoE projectile attack scales with targets (up to a cap of 20 or something), so if you can get more clones out, you can get more targets, and reflect more damage.

Iris Ng.9845:

Ssshhhh… Dual wielding Infinite Light and the Minstrel (aka. sword/sword/focus). I’m a PvE mesmer.

Dual Whisperblades and Spirit Links here. Such purple.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Adamo.4201:

Almost every “boss” in the game can now ignore reflect world bosses, fractals, and of course dungeons, If they didn’t want us using that skill just remove it entirely. Imagine doing a fractal 50 with lava shaman knowing that your reflects won’t be able to reflect his infamous arrow lol.

Is this true? Didn’t have issues.

It’s not true, people are just exaggerating.

Devik.9852:

maxinion.8396:

Arah armor hasn’t been prestigious for a long while now. It’s just a skin. Hell, you can even get it in pvp.

That’s my point lol. At least before if you obtained it in PVP, you couldn’t wear it outside the area.

I mean, I understand that you want a prestigious armor. My point is just that Arah armor has never really been prestigious. Even back in the “good old days,” people were carried, people exploited, people ranged Lupicus, whatever. It wasn’t a sign you were a good player— maybe a dedicated one, but that’s different from prestige IMO.

Arah armor hasn’t been prestigious for a long while now. It’s just a skin. Hell, you can even get it in pvp.

Jeremlloyd.6837:

Sam = best mentor EU!

NA too!