Guild Wars 2

I think what Thief needs most is condition removal and some form of 100% damage mitigation.

As far as condition removal is concerned, we need either reliable access to Resistance or something on a <30 second cooldown that clears 3 conditions. I shouldn’t have to burn my Stunbreak/“oh-kitten! button” to remove 3 conditions.

We need access to something more reliable for damage mitigation. Other classes complain and say Stealth is good enough, but surprise-surprise, being invisible doesn’t stop us from getting hit.
Look around… Warrior has 2 Endure pains, Guardians have blocks and invulnerability, Mesmers have their invulnerability and the sword-evade thing, ect, ect. I believe Thief is the only class which lacks a solid damage mitigation ability.
Give us Shadow Form or some crap which gives us a 100% chance to evade for 5 seconds… Idk.

Thief Damage and Utility is fine (except pistol/pistol). We lack good defense… 2 or 3 Dodge rolls and Stealth ain’t a good defense for a class with naturally low vitality and toughness.

Even S/D is outclassed by Ranger S/D – They have more evades than we do!

Hey dudes,

I’ve been enjoying all the fruits BWE3 has offered, and right now I’m loving Reaper.

More so than I thought I would. The sheer DPS we output in Reaper is intense. Now I’ve got less than 10 hours player on Necro’s, and I’ve never taken much of an interest in playing them until now.

I’m struggling pretty hard against Conditions and I’m not too sure what Utility skills I should be using.

So, I’m asking you guys. Got any tips or build ideas? I usually theory craft my own builds for Thief, but with necro’s I’m lost.

Any help is much appreciated.

Troublesome.5670:

---

On Another Note****

After watching some gameplay for Rev Shiro I couldn’t help feeling as though i was watching what Sword thief should have been….it gave me chills. Maybe it’s time to reroll to Rev? I’m beginning to think that’s what the devs want thieves to do. The animations and skills look amazing.

Already gathering stuff to reroll when HoT drops. Shiro looks incredibly fun and I too got the “S/D” feels from it.

Troublesome.5670:

Kill.3458:

DD is Acro 2.0 because the devs thought it was cool to destroy acro so we all need DD to be more evasive which apparently will be pointless in new content as not all damage can be dodged…

So, if I understand you correctly, they are giving thief back Acro just in time for it to be ineffective? That doesn’t seem to make much sense. Why give a class with very little base survivability a core survival mechanic (as well as base an entire “new” Elite Spec around it)while knowing ahead of time that will be generally ineffective?

I mean, that takes the redesign from the realm of lazy and uncreative into the realm of spitefully and knowingly aiming for failure.

Again, I hope I am missing something, because i love this game and love thief but am having a hard time justifying buying the expansion from what i’m hearing.

From past trends, Anet isn’t giving Thief as much (if any) love as other professions.

For example, Engi’s got their Magnet Pull fixed so that the target will always come to you… Scorpion Wire was ignored and is still buggy as kitten.

Consume Plasma claims to give all boons, but doesn’t give you Resistance and Quickness, two new buffs added in June.

Anet seem to be overlooking Thief at every turn and patch. Professions get QoL changes which Thief should also get, but we don’t.

But they buffed Pistols to a point where the damage is decent enough on Unload to actually use instead of Shortbow for more of a fighter presence. However, the pistol 2 is still not worth touching.

Seems like Anet is playing hard to get, if you get me.

Nocta.5274:

the key to making the idea really good would be some kind of redesign of Pistol 2 so the set get something unique to it that is useful.

The Bola shot is really bad. 4 Ini for a 1 second immobilize which is really easy to dodge ( you literally just need to walk to the side and you dodge it). It needs to be changed to something worthwhile. I’ve never used it and probably never will do. Ankle Shots does a much better job at controlling my opponent then Pistol#2 does.

Hey there guys,

For my stream today, I decided to test out P/P in WvW to see if it has any place with any current builds to replace Shortbow or whether a new build needed to be theory crafted for it.

I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. So much so, that I might just start running P/P on most of my Power builds.

So here’s the run down of what I used:

- D/P + P/P,
- 3 Valk / 3 Zeker (V-Z-V-Z-V-Z),
- Everything else Zerker,
- Runes of the Pack/Wurm (Tested both, both okay but there’s probably better choices),
- Air/Blood in D/P (Might swap Blood out for Intelligence),
- Air/Intelligence in P/P (Might swap Intelligence out for Blood),
- The build I used

Now, P/P on it’s own sucks kitten . It just simply doesn’t work. You need to run a weapon combo with built in utility like D/P (Stealth & Blinds) or S/D (Evasion & Teleports, I’ve not tested S/D yet) to give it some decent survivability. P/P is somewhat comparable to S/P and Pistol Whip, where P/P has extremely good ranged pressure, Pistol Whip has a short stun and Evade built in, with access to Infiltrators strike. The problems with Pistol Whip is that;

1. The enemy can just walk out of the area,
2. The Stun gets mirrored against Mesmers and some Ele builds,
3. If you miss with Pistol Whip, you’re locked in place for a brief period of time,
4. You need to expend a gap closer to reliably land Pistol Whip,

Unload, deals roughly the same damage, maybe a bit more, and does not have any of the problems above. It does kinda have a small problem with it’s 900 range but not that bad.

I found opening with Unload twice then stealing, weapon swapping then backstabbing does a massive, I mean massive spike damage.
Unload hits harder than Backstab in most cases. If Flanking Strikes procs, then two unloads hits for roughly 15k-18k depending on your crits within 1.5 seconds. Then Backstab with intelligence runes, for a further 5-8k.

Your single target DPS is off the kittening chain, but you’ll struggle with 2v1’s (Bring back Ricochet pls anet).

It’s got very nice access to defence as Blinding Powder inside of Black Powder grants 7 or so seconds of Stealth for easy repositioning. Refuge for resetting the fight or using the Dark Field to lifesteal with Pistol Sneak attack (100% Projectile Finisher), then a following Unload (20% chance). Finally with Shadow Step for quick repositioning, stun breaks or Condi clearing.

Always use Sneak Attack on Pistol over Unload as it hits for roughly 50% damage but is free of initiative costs and has a 100% chance to combo finisher. Unload is brilliant for major spike damage but requires some serious Initiative management.

Typically, the build struggles with condition bombs, as do most Thief builds.

Tomorrow, I’m going to try out an evasion build with P/P with S/D and see if it works as well as D/P.

For once, I’m genuinely excited to try out something new, as I have had good results today against most professions and builds (except mantra power mesmers, 17k-0 in <0.5 seconds isn’t fun).

And the funny part about this whole thing is, that once Daredevil comes out the build is going to get so much stronger with Bound being a Leap Finisher so P/P can get Utility through Stealth.

Edit: Here’s a pretty decent 1v1 against a Melee -Survival Ranger
it’s a 6 min long fight, but on several occasions I’m getting a single Unload to hit for 10k+.

wolfpaq.7354:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Last time I made a list of suggestions for the Daredevil, Anet took 8 (well, 7.5, half of one) of them and put it in for the next BWE.

I wouldn’t be so proud of contributing to what is looking to be far and away the most worthless elite spec in the game.

Savage

Shadow Sniper

Uses Rifle as it’s new Weapon.

Utilises Smoke Fields and heavy single target damage.

(Presuming Full zerker gear)

1 1st Chain Skill: Aimed Shot
1200 Range
Deals 1350 Damage
Applies 2 Stacks of Vulnerability
20% Combo Projectile Finisher

2nd Chain Skill: Precise Shot
1200 Range
Deals 1550 Damage
Applies 2 Stacks of Vulnerability
50% Combo Projectile Finisher

3rd Chain Skill: Snipe
1500 Range
Deals 1875 Damage
Rooted for 0.5 Seconds before the shot
Applies 5 Stacks of Vulnerability
100% Combo Projectile Finisher

Sneak Skill: Headshot
1500 Range
Deals 2450 Damage
Rooted for 2.0 seconds before the shot
Applies 2s of Daze
Applies 2s of Stun if the target was interrupted
100% Combo Projectile Finisher

2 Skill: Kneecapper – 4 ini cost
900 Range
Deals 400 Damage
Applies 5’s of Cripple to the target if they were not moving
Applies 2’s of Immobilize to the target if they are moving
100% Combo Projectile Finisher

3 Skill: Retreat – 4 ini cost
Break Immobilize, Cripple & Chill
Gain 3 Seconds of Swiftness
Flip/Leap 600 Units backwards
Combo Leap Finisher

4 Skill: Shadow Round – 4 ini cost
900 Range
Deals 1350 Damage
Teleport to your target when your bullet lands
Knock your enemy back 350 units
100% Combo Projectile Finisher

5 Skill: Smoke in the Chamber – 6 ini cost
Your next 1 skill is now automatically converted to sneak skill Headshot
Your next Headshot now creates a line smoke field 1500 units long
(This skill will automatically blind as Headshot is 100% Combo Finisher Projectile)

#Heal Skill: Reposition – 45 second cooldown
Targeted Teleport 900 Range
0.25s cast time
AOE Blind at both start cast location and then again target location
Heal for 4350 and an extra 1000 per blinded target in 600 units (max 3 targets)
Heal only procs at the target location
Blast finisher at start cast location and again at target location

#Utility skill 1: Ambush – 30s cooldown
0.5s Cast time
Gain stealth for 4 seconds
Gain 4 seconds of Swiftness
You are unable to be revealed for the next 20 seconds
Your next attack is a guaranteed critical strike
If Traited for Hidden Killer instead: Your next attack deals 33% extra damage

#Utility skill 2: Sniper’s Intuition – 40s cooldown
Instant Cast time
900 Reveal AOE around your character
Gain 5 stacks of might per Revealed target
Remove 2 conditions per Revealed target
(This works on things that are not in stealth, you’ll still get the might stacks)
Breaks Stun

#Utility skill 3: Shadows Defence – 30s cooldown
Block all incoming attacks for 4 seconds
Per attack blocked, gain 1 stack of Shadows Defence (Max 6 Stacks)
Once Shadows Defence has ended, consume all stacks
Gain 1s of Stealth per stack consumed
Gain 1 stack of might for 10s per 1 stack consumed
Breaks Stun

#Utility skill 4: Controlled Breathing – 45 second cooldown
Gain 5 Stacks of Focused Breathing (Lasting 10 Seconds)
Whilst you have at least one stack of Focused Breathing you have Resistance to all conditions.
Damaging a Foe will remove one stack of Focused Breathing,
After all stacks have been removed gain:
8 Stacks of Might for 10 seconds,
Swiftness for 10 seconds,
2 Stacks of Stability,
and also Remove immobilize, chill and cripple
If the 10 seconds pass and you still have stacks of Focused Breathing:
Self Inflict 10 stacks of Vulnerability
Self Inflict 5 Seconds of Cripple
Self Inflict Daze for 2 seconds

#Elite Skill: Dead-Man Walking – 120s cooldown
Mark an enemy for death for 10 seconds
All damage against the target is increased based upon their missing health
For each 1% of missing health the target has, deal 0.5% extra damage to them
If you down the marked target, the 10 second duration is refreshed
If the target is finished by you or you get an assist, reduce the cooldown to 30 seconds. Also heal yourself for 20% of your max HP.

CBA doing traits, but you get the general gist of it

When the patch comes out tomorrow, I’m going to laugh my kitten off when I see these Thief changes.

I guarantee that they’ll fix all the “bugs” Thief currently has, like Basi Venom lasting .5 second too long, further nerfing us. Whist giving pistol a damage increase… ’Cause pistol is the thing in dire need of a buff… >_>

I hold 0 hope for the patch notes tomorrow. The Devs have not posted anything supportive in these forums for months, excluding the BWE feedback for Daredevil (which is still a bad Elite spec, even after the “buffs” it’s getting).

Zero Day.2594:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Zero Day.2594:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Get more people on the profession so we can better influence anet’s descisions through statistics?

Wasn’t the goal to drop the thief population so low that they would actually notice it?

We get people on the profession and then convince everyone to reroll. Then we ask anet for 26k backstabs because numbers.

Good luck with that. RP-ers and casually PvE-ers won’t budge. If anything that will just help show that thief is “fine” (see all these people playing and not complaining!)

---

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mk8cj/we_made_a_song_about_thieves/

Well, GG. People are already hyped up by the cheery video!

Thief is fine people! We’re just whiny kittenes.

People in the kittening GW2 subreddit… I don’t even know why I bother reading anything Thief related in there. One massive circle jrek of moronic players who’ve never played thief, crying OP.

“A thief crit me for 15k waaaaaaaaaah, OP NERF NOW ANET WTFBBQ.”

We can get one shotted by 75% of all builds and two shotted by the other 25%, but that’s fair cause we can one shot too… Sometimes… For the cost of all our utilities and healing skill… That’s fair, right guys? Thief’s OP guys, duh. Get with the program. /s

sigh

Our buffs and nerfs are dictated by other professions and people who’ve never played a thief. How kittening ludicrous is that.

D/D Cele Ele is OP as kitten but I don’t see an outcry for their nerf.

This is an honest, open hearted question to any Dev reading. I mean no misconduct with this post. I mean no offence in anything I say, please keep this in mind…

Are you even listening? Not just reading, listening to us.

The Thief forums has been filled with nothing but anger, hatred, complaints, jealousy and full of ideas for Thief. Thief Balance, Thief Daredevil improvements, ect. To be fair, a lot of them suck kitten , but there are one or two floating around which are amazing and seriously need a look at by the Thief Devs (do you guys have them or did they get fired and replaced by the Ele devs? – I jest, this is a joke, please don’t take it seriously, refer to line 1 and 2 of the post).

Out of the 30 most recent posts, over 75% of them are in some way or form showing their dislike towards the way Thief is going (lets face it, we’re almost there. We’re heading to the Graveyard and the grave has already been dug by the Engi’s Sneak Bot, “beep-boop-kitten-Thieves”).

This entire forum section has gone to kitten. You know why? Because you aren’t listening. And if you are, then you aren’t showing it to us. Tell us you’re listening, tell is you’re aware of the Thieves problems, tell us you’re “working on it”. Something, anything. Give us a sign or I fear a lot of people will just leave. Not just Thief, but the game in general.

I, myself, have stopped playing Thief for my Ranger. I find it 100% more fun and I actually stand a chance when fighting other professions. Being able to kill PU Mesmers and Cele Ele’s feels amazing… But I can’t on my Thief and that’s bad. I always play the sneaky rogue type, no matter what game I play. If it’s an FPS, you’ll find me with a silenced sniper at the back of the map. WoW from vanilla to WOTLK, I played a Rogue. Diablo 2, Assassin, ect, ect. You get my point. People want to play this type of class, and they don’t want to abandon it for more viable options. That’s not good!

You seriously can NOT ignore an entire profession from being balanced appropriately. You’ve twatted us with the Nerf Shovel straight in the face a million times, but that last time was savage. Meanwhile, you’re handing out buffs left, right and centre to other classes. We need Thief love and we need it soon. In the Druid reveal, you said you read the forum section for professions. Rangers complained and they got something amazing. Thieve’s complained and we got recycled animations and 1 extra, fancy dodge roll… ?_?

Yes, that does sell DD a little bit short, but comparison to the other Elite specs… Hah, I’ll be honestly blunt, and I’m sorry but: Daredevil sucks, and it pales in comparison to others. It doesn’t matter how long you spent working on it, you really need to read and listen to us. The concept is awesome! The execution… not so much. I know of people who really like it, and that’s fine. People are entitled to their own opinions, but the overall feeling is negative. The Silverwastes Shovel animation… Really!?

Now, I’m not going to spurt off balance idea’s, that’s not the point of this post. You can find loads of good idea’s on the front page of the Thief forums… But you should’ve already read them and informed the Thief devs for more idea’s ‘n’ stuff… Right? But the fact that you’re balancing Thief, based upon words from none Thief players is absurd. Other professions spout off the biggest load of bull kitten ever. Exaggerated lies and poor/low skilled players crying because they get killed by Backstab Signet Build.

Yes, we exaggerate too about how poor Thief is right now. I fully admit that Thief isn’t as kitten as we’re making it out to be. But if we’re to put all the professions on a “power” level, out of 100, Thief is currently sat at the lowest power level, around 50/60 depending on where you’re playing your Thief (50 for Solo-Roaming and sPvP, 60 for Group-Roaming and Zerging for Medic duties).

Please, take every word I’ve posted in this thread, go read the other threads and do something about it. Prove, not only to me, but to all Thieves, that you are listening.

Thank you for reading.

Trait: “Actually Steal something of worth”

When you steal to the target, steal 90% of all their Money, Karma, Laurels and any spare Gems they haven’t spent. Casting Steal now automatically types “/laugh @” in chat. Once you have stolen all of their currencies, teleport upto a maximum of 10,000 units away to the nearest Trading post to spend your newly hard-earned coin. If the Thief is killed within 10 seconds, then return the stolen goods.

You see, this has counterplay because all you’d need to do is carry around a “Summon Black Lion Trading Post” person and plonk it down whenever you see a Thief.

Anet pls hire me for balance team.

I agree with a lot in your post OP, but that’s probably because I’m a Thief main…

I don’t claim to be an amazingly good, top 1% Thief and I’ve only ever run into one or two of those Thieves during my entire time in WvW. They’ll hands down systematically destroy everything and it’s crazy to watch or even be on the receiving end and that’s good.

What’s not good is that a Thief who’s in the top 25% of skill, gets his kitten handed to him by PU mesmer or D/D Cele Ele who of which are in the 75% bracket level of “skill”. Some builds literally carry the player to victory and it suddenly changes to a game of “who’s got the better build”.

I have to regularly check a Mesmer’s food and utility, and if it’s condi then I start running for the hills. These are the things which need targeting for tweaks and nerfs. A perfect game should have equal balancing and lets face it, no game is perfect. However, Anet need to start with the absolute most broken builds and tune them appropriately.

Thief fares well against a lot of professions and builds but some are simply impossible. Absolutely not chance of killing them.

I suppose the bottom line is, whilst yes, the skill cap is distorted between professions (and in some cases, “extremely” distorted), its the builds of the professions which cause the distortion and need to be looked at.

Straegen.2938:

Anet should be analyzing traits and skills that are used too frequently and too infrequently. If some trait or skill is relied on too much, it should be adjusted downward. Likewise if some trait or skill isn’t used at all, it should be improved.

Straegen has pretty much hit the nail on the head as it would provide buffs for Engi/Thief and nerfs to the broken builds.

My name is meepeY and my Thief is called Shade Blackheart… And I too, am a Thief-aholic. I don’t enjoy playing but I keep on going and I don’t know why.

Oh god the shame

Shinjiko.1352:

I was running to a zerg on my staff ele that is in full zerker gear and a trapper thief thought I was an easy target. I just kept running as he tried desperately to stop me with traps and caltrops. Even when he realised he had to apply additional pressure he was obv in dire gear so his attacks hit like nothing. I just kept running on through.

Sounds like a really bad Ghost Thief to me ^^.

Gotta pace it all out, if you miss Trap #1 then don’t even both wasting more traps ‘cause you ain’t gonna land ’em.

Smart positioning also will help land traps. Stand sideways, steal and the Trap is placed lengthways towards the target so they get trapped if they’re moving directly away. Little things like that really do go a long way.

uglydan.1638:

One trapper thief killed nine of you? You all either suck or you’re lying/exaggerating. (I’d admit to the second one if I were you)

Two Ghost Thieves vs 6 – 10 Players at Splendans

Albeit takes longer than 3 minutes for Two of us.

Zodryn.4216:

My opinion: we are not masters of being revealed, we are masters of stealth (well we’re supposed to be, right now it’s debatable). I’d rather have a way to get back in stealth than a passive “I’m strong when I’m revealed” solution.

That’s why it’s Reveal Training. We’re masters of Stealth, but the training gives us a strength briefly exiting stealth. That’s the idea behind it, anyway.

So with everyone pretty much up in arms about more and more reveals being packaged with every single Elite Spec being released, it’s about time to turn Revealed into a double edged sword for people who wish to de-cloak Thieves.

When a Thief loses his stealth through reveal, he is denied damage from not being able to use his Sneak attack (The only class in the game to lose DPS on Reveal), he is denied condition removal (The only class in the game to lose condi clear on Reveal) and he is denied a large portion of his health regeneration (The only class in the game to lose a lot of healing capabilities on Reveal).

Now, as stated above, we will lose a kitten load because we’re un-stealthed by the push of a 20s cooldown button. This needs counter play, and I’ve seen loads of really good idea’s thrown about, so here’s mine:

Revealed Training needs to be reworked to give Resistance and/or protection for the duration of the Reveal as well as it’s +200 Power buff ONLY WHEN YOU ARE REVEALED BY SOMEONE ELSES ACTIONS. This will make enemies think about the choice of revealing a Thief. Do I give him the Resistance and/or protection? Is it worth it, right now? Should I save it for when he’s on the defence? Now this also applies when Thieves aren’t in stealth to begin with, but get revealed anyway. It would have an internal cooldown of 10-20 seconds.

Is this too powerful to give to Thieves? Maybe… For Arguments sake, make it so the Resistance and/or Protection only lasts for 2 or 3 seconds… We can nerf Shadows Embrace a little to add some counter balance so Thieves aren’t immune to Conditions completely. But remember this only applies to when you are revealed at the actions of another player, through things like Sick’em, ect, ect.

Please discuss and constructive feedback is always welcome.

Kocoff.7582:

Finally, the infamous OP came up with something completely reasonable. So with that sir, I completely back you up on this. Keep the faith, be patient.

When did Anet say they will have a balance path for Elites & Core specs? That is the real question.

They’re bringing out new variations and tweeks of the DD with the next BWE for more testing… So then I’d assume. However, they have said nothing in regards to core specs.

Lets be real. When HoT lands, Thief will most likely get looked at and hopefully receive the correct buffs it needs. My only concerns are: If they buff the wrong stuff and “balance” the buff by nerfing the right stuff and if they’ll give any substantialbuffs at all. We got very little in the June Trait changes patch, lets hope for more this time around.

Another great idea that will unfortunately never see light of day. I love how the Thief forum, whist it does have complaints (rightfully so), it’s got people like OP trying to come up with satisfying buffs or mechanics which could work with some professional dev balancing.

I’d love to see this in the game and when roamers complain that Thief is OP in WvW Roaming, we’d get to reply:

“Tough kitten, the game isn’t balanced for WvW Roaming” as we’ve been told many times before in regards to PU and Cele D/D Ele’s.

What really sucks is that good Engi’s are saying that they wont even take the Sneak Gyro. They’re happy with the Box Drop or the Elixer. Fair play if you think the Gyro isn’t great.

However, BAD Engi’s who struggle or dislike Thieves will take the Sneak Gyro and now they have the 1-button-press-go-kitten-yourself-anti-Thief ability. Now the bad Engi’s will be able to beat Thieves with another dumb thing that takes out the skill factor and keeps it to a “who’s build is better” orientation.

The skill ceiling keeps getting lower and lower for other Professions where as the bar of requirement for Thieves gets higher and higher. We slowly become a class which is either 100% Glass Cannon so we can 1 shot on a luck based percentage outcome, some form of Trap Bunker Condi or going to the cheesiest of builds in the “Ghost Thief” build (No idea what the “Ghost Thief” is? Click here, sorry for the blatant stream plug).

The moment I see the Stealth Gyro appear, I’m whipping out my Shortbow and downing that thing ASAP.

For that 20s Cooldown, 900 AOE Range, 6s Reveal, good god that’s OP against Thieves. Use it at the start of a fight to kitten my 2-5 Stealth Stack, by the time I’m crippled and have to use Shadow Refuge, he’ll just do it again.

I’m counting the days to the next BWE to try out so new profession elite specs r… Once I’ve got my hands on something more satisfying then I’m switching mains.

Sorry lads n lass’, Thief ain’t for me after HoT unless we get some love.

6/10

An interesting thought, however this would make D/P the indisputable king of Thief with no room for innovation. The other specs would just fall to ruin or be forced to take something that can leap or blast finish.

So… Not too far from the current meta. D/D would become useless in the upcoming HoT, kinda like it is now, but even more-so.

There’s a lot wrong with the idea and a lot right with it. It would take some serious balancing. Perhaps not through finishers but specific Thief abilities, that way D/P doesn’t become the absolute must have. Make it so that Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder and other Utilities give you the “Ghost” level of Stealth. It becomes more “Thief” like because it’s through our unique skills, not combo finishers.

You could even go so far as to provide bonuses for using Ghost stealth as it will be behind a long cooldown. If you blast finish the Blinding Powder then you would gain x2 the Ghost stealth, to keep it simple and fair. Also leaping or blasting a Smoke Screen would give Ghost stealth so it makes more sense.

Combo’ing through 1-5 skills doesn’t give Ghost Stealth… Gotta balance it somehow.

Heck, you could make it so that gaining Ghost stealth removes Reveal.

MrDire.6235:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The funny thing about this is that, while Karl is concern about balance _(not letting Thief be overpowered — which I support)

Nail on the head, but you cant blame him, because the moment thief is competent people will start crying

just accept it. Maybe if we try hard enough we’ll get nerfed again.

What’s left for them to nerf ?

Don’t tempt the Nerf Bat, for it shall strike fierce and hard against us like it has done many times before.

The Devs have obviously gone wild with their imagination when it comes to these new specs (Well, maybe not with Daredevil, but w/e, we’re long past complaining about what we got and now onto the plane of jealously at what other professions got).

Someone in the balancing department has obviously said out loud to the room:

“How do we help this Elite Spec deal with Thieves or Stealth in general”,

and someone cried back:

“AOE 900 RANGE, 6 SECOND REVEAL WITH A 20 SECOND COOLDOWN”.

Then Steve in the corner yelled: “Yeah, kitten Shadow Refuge”.

With the Devs “letting their hairdown” when it comes to making these elite specs has caused them to overlook a lot of simple things such as how a Thief can counter this.

I can foresee none Thief players saying “You can counter it! Just teleport away and dodge roll or whatever you Overpowered Heathen kitteny-Thief kitten do”.

What doesn’t shock me is the amount of knowledge none-thief players have of Thief. I had the “pleasure” of talking to a Mesmer main of 3 whole years who plays nothing but PU and claims it’s perfectly balanced, calling Thieves OP because (and I quote):

“You guys are OP cause of that Trait you have which auto-stealths you whenever you get CC’d by any skill”.

If this trait exists then whose kitten do I have to suck to activate it?

Kocoff.7582:

wow guys bottom right corner. It’s a lot worse than we thought.. 6 seconds..??

http://i.imgur.com/sxEMt8j.jpg

6 Second Reveal. AOE 900 Range. 20 Second Cooldown. Massive Daze AOE Spam. Constant Stability. Constant Super Speed. Access to Stealth themselves. The list goes on and on.

The final nail in the coffin. Next BWE I’m gonna test other professions and then re roll to the one I enjoy the most.

Daredevil pails in comparison. Not to say we got shafted… But we didn’t get exactly as much or so much.

Lets face it. Anet will never implement something so long winded and time consuming as a mechanic to deny other classes of their core abilities/mechanics. Not to say they’re lazy, but they’d probably all gather in their little meeting room and the dude who’d have to program it would raise his hand and say “kitten that”.

We should be asking for a counter to the real problem. We need to be able to remove or negate Reveal. Whether it be from a Grandmaster Trait in SA or tack on a Reveal Remove to an existing ability which could use some love, cough Signet of Shadows cough.

I could go on all day about how I think it should be done, and my opinion will differ to yours and the devs over at Anet.

At the end of the day we need Reveal Removal on a similar cooldown to abilities that Reveal to keep the balance in check.

Anet pls.

Here’s a quick fire list of stuff which Thief skills needs in terms of changes (all IMO):

- Sword 2, Infiltrators Strike, the return needs to be instant. Remove the cast time.
- S/P 3, Pistol Whip, reduce or remove the cast time.
- Shortbow 3, make the animation not teleport you back 50 range units (visual bug)
- P/P 3, Unload, reduce it’s initiative cost to 4 or 3.
- P 1, Vital Shot, increase it’s physical damage by double, maybe more.
- P 1, Sneak Attack, increase it’s physical damage by double, maybe more.
- D/D 3, Death Blossom, double/triple the evade time, double/triple its damage, reduce initiative cost by 1.
- Dagger 5, Cloak and Dagger, reduce initiative cost by 1 or 2. Add a Blind instead of Vulnerability. Increase its range to 250 or make it a small teleport (500-600 range).
- Hide in Shadows, reduce cast time to 0.5 seconds. Change it’s condi clear to same as Withdraw.
- Assassins Signet, change it to 20% increased damage. Maybe add a stun break.
- Signet of Shadows, like Cronicle.5691 said, make it remove the Revealed debuff and increase the cooldown to 40s. Change the 25% movement speed to 50% movement speed whilst in stealth and every 5th attack causes AOE Blindness.
- Shadow Trap, make the teleport more reliable. Right now it moves you very fast in a straight line to your targer or to the trap. If a tree is in the way, you’ll teleport to the tree. If the trap is up a cliff, you’ll get “no valid path”.
- Tripwire Trap, reduce it’s cooldown to 20 seconds.
- Scorpion Wire, make the pull more reliable, double it’s damage, cause 5 stacks of bleed and a 3s cripple.
- Haste, reduce the cooldown to 30 seconds from 60 (60 seconds?!?!?).
- Smoke Screen, make it an AOE Ring that when activated forms around you in a circle. Maybe make it so that they can’t see through the ring of smoke but you can see out. (Like Graves Smoke Screen from League of Legends but in reverse). Enemies inside the smoke screen circle get blinded every second for that they’re inside.
- Signet of Malice, increase it’s heal on hit to 300~. Change the active part to heal based on how much Initiative you have. Full Initiative: 4k – No Initiative: 2k. If you’ve only got 5 or 6 then it would be worked out proportionately
- Thieves Guild, increase the damage of the Thieves, reduce the cooldown to 120 seconds.

This is all excluding Traits. There’s loads of issues with our Traits. Things being where they shouldn’t. Traits being split into two traits which reduces our choices. Some Traits being completely useless… The list goes on.

Stinja.9612:

Roll a Rev before its too late so you can maintain your hated status(Sword 3 is op wah wah q q )!
.

Already started the preparations to insta-80 and gear it >:D. Can’t wait for Rev, as the last BWE was amazing to play it.

I don’t want to discourage you from playing Thief, but yes, right now we’re in a bit of a bad state PvP wise. A lot of people say it’s a matter of L2P issues but there’s a lot of match-up’s a Thief simply can’t take regardless of your build choice.
You’d need to be a monsterly good player to compete vs some cheese builds which don’t require much skill to play. You can’t afford to make mistakes, as even little ones cost you an arm and a leg + 60% of your health pool.

I mean, playing Thief is pretty kitten fun, but dying to a PU Mesmer or D/D Cele Ele isn’t very fun after the 6th or 7th time.

If you choose your battles carefully, and practice a lot with a specific build then you should be golden…

If you find yourself getting royally romped by specific builds, just try avoid them or think of a counter play-style with your build.

Whether I would recommend Thief to new people, I dunno, Ele is really strong right now. Thief might make a come back if we get some buffs in the right places.

Yo dudes,

It’s strange but where ever I look, if a Thief is ever mentioned outside of the Thief section, there’s loads of hate for some reason.

I’m kind of semi-new when it comes to the forums, I’ve never really found much’a reason to come on here.

Did we do something to offend everyone? I see a lot of people calling us over-powered, or we have broken stealth mechanics, ect.

Could someone please enlighten me as to why we’re getting the verbal boot?

Gonna’ need longer than 5 minutes.

I’m by no means a Thief master, but I’ve played enough to be able to chime in with my two cents.

I took a two month break from mid-May to towards the end of June. So when I came back, the new Masteries were a surprise to me.

I play exclusively WvW so hopefully I can cover that section for Thief gameplay. Oh boy, what a kittenfest it is for Thieves right now. We can scout, cap sentries and camps… That’s about it. Our dueling state is in a complete mess. We can hardly even gank players, as a lot of builds are super tanky or defensive. Only really glass builds die to Thieves as our burst potential has been kitten dramatically.

Yes, I can build my Thief to crit for 22k… But I also get less than 12k HP and all my utility skills are offensive, so even a lowly cripple can kill me, ezpz.

Anyway, it took me a long time to realise what the problem with Thief was. I mean, the big problem. The small ones are trait problems and choices… But I finally realised, the problem wasn’t Thieves. It was everyone other class being one-step-ahead of us.

Every class got a buff or upgrade in some sort. Some classes even got access to new extremely strong cheese builds. The burn condition got a massive buff, making cheese Guardians and Ele Condi builds unstoppable if you couldn’t instantly clear the 10+ stacks of burn (which tick for over 6k per second).

You know what we got? A buff to Trapper Thief. That’s it. That’s all.

Roaming in WvW is extremely difficult for Thieves, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Using D/P or any slight variation just isn’t as effective anymore. 6k-9k Backstabs don’t really do much anymore, we can’t burst hard enough because almost every class is farting out Protection, Blind or Aegis every few seconds. Mesmers are sweating perspiration made of invisible juice. They’re invis more than we are!

I fondly recall duelling a Warrior who was hitting harder than my Backstabs. 8k Rush? 7.5k Whirlwind? 3 or 4 hits of 100 Blades? 10~k ish?

My HP? 14k.

Their HP? 20k.

Are you kidding me? ?_?

I have to roll Wurm Runes, almost full Valk armour and Furious Maintenance Oils just to get some decent health at the cost of useful Runes and crit chance.

It’s killing me inside to play Thief. I love it so much but it’s getting really annoying to play. I stream every single day and the only builds I get decent success with are cheesey builds with specific niches. The Ghost Thief comes to mind.

I’m really considering rerolling sometime soon. I cherish my viewers who only come to watch Thief gameplay but dying or losing a fight purely based on class, not skill, is really kittening annoying to a very competitive person like myself.

When it comes down to the bottom of it, some days I lose every one vs one because I’m constantly running into PU Mesmers or some days I have relatively okay days where I’m performing well enough.

I shouldn’t have to run away from players purely because of their build. That’s just not good grounds for PvP in an MMO. Thief needs some loving, and it needs it fast, unlikely as it will be. Also, as Anet wants to balance classes around PvP, they should at least look into balancing in WvW, specifically towards things ONLY AVAILABLE in WvW. Perplexity Runes, I’m lookin’ right at you.

I could go on for hours on how to balance a Thief from a WvW stand point, but there’s no point right now. When Anet opens up for idea’s, I’ll personally post a 10,000 word essay on Thief balance if I need to.

Apologies for the long post.

Hey guys,

So reading around I can see the general consensus is that Daredevil is somewhat lacklustre. That’s fine, it’s a beta test weekend. That’s why they host these weekends. Now my complaint is that we’ve gotten nothing new in terms of profession specific skills.

A lot of people have suggested making the 3 new dodge rolls into F3-4-5 skills with a 10 Second cooldown. I believe that this would be the best solution for a Thief Daredevil and make the Grandmasters alter the way a specific one works in a dramatic fashion. Also making them extremely unique and difficult to chose between would be the best outcome.

Please keep in mind that the current Grandmaster traits would be the dodge rolls on F3 4 and 5. Choosing a new Grandmaster would alter the way the specific one works

Now what do I propose for these Grandmasters? I propose the following:

- Enforcer Training [Minor]:

Give access to F3 4 and 5. They are swappable through combat but switching between puts the other two on a 10 second cooldown. This keeps things balanced.

- Lotus Training

Using this Trait removes the physical damage, and applies 3 stacks of bleed and Torment instead of 1. The cripple time is increased to 5 seconds

[The saving grace of DD Condi builds. The physical damage is what was holing back the true condition damage potential because it was revealing you in Stealth]

- Unhindered Combatant

Using this Trait increases the speed of which you cover the distance by twice as fast, it now cures Immobilize as well as Cripple and Chilled. For each one of these Conditions cured, return 15 Endurance.

[Really good with an evasive build like Sword/Dagger, maybe Staff at a push]

- Bounding Dodger

Rename this trait to “Bounding Giant”

Remove the evade portion of the ability. Increase it’s base damage to roughly 1000-1300 or higher, when you land cause a shockwave (450 units wide) which causes anyone hit to be dazed for 1 second and apply 3s of Weakness. If an ability is interrupted apply 10 stacks of Vulnerability to the target.

Possibly, if it isn’t that appealing, make it cause the interrupted ability to become a Timebomb that if they activate the same ability again within 10 seconds it causes a pulmonary impact and a 1s stun.

[This skill would be nice with an interrupt build around Pulmonary impact]

I would also love to see Pulmonary Impact hit harder by about 1000 damage, as it can’t crit. This takes it to the middle point of between high damage and a crit. The trade off of the skill is you need to have good timing on interrupts, but the 2.5k damage isn’t very much. Also it needs to NOT reveal you from Stealth.

These are just some baseline things I thought of. They may be OP or really silly or whatever. Please feel free to post replies as to what you think they should be or what you’re ideas are.

I’ll gladly answer any questions and constructive criticism is always appreciated.

Bound Dodge Roll is extremely odd. The evade doesn’t last as long as the animation does, so it leads to some really head-tilting evades. The animation needs to be shorter to match the length of the stomp.

Sometimes you’ve gotta evade twice to dodge something channelled like a Rangers LB-2 but with this dodge roll you just can’t. It seems the animation is almost 1.5 seconds long, but the evade only counts for .75 of a second. You can’t spam if for evades, plus the slight instant where you cant move after landing really ducks you up.

Also, with Staff-2, after casting you’re character seems to stand still for a split second and this causes you to lose ALL momentum you previously had. It makes the skill clunky to use. Not fun at all. It also does duck all damage. I’ve never had it hit over 3k.

I think the Staff-1 skill should also hit harder. I think it’s a little weak. 1k Crits for parts 1 and 2. 2k Crits for part 3 if all swings hit… That’s really low compared to sword or dagger. Also the staff swing is really slow compared to the other melee weapons.

As far as figuring out what works… After 10+ Games of sPvp, I have no idea. I like to think of myself being a good Theory crafter, but man… I was so useless. Nothing which I tried really worked. The whole thing felt slow, sluggish and weighted – The complete opposite of what a Daredevil is suppose to be.

The only build which felt “fine” was a kittenty condi build I had thought up. I say “fine” but in reality it was still slow, sluggish and weighted. Just not as much as the power builds I tried.

Overall I’m disappointed. Really lacklustre right now. I feel that the staff skills just aren’t doing enough damage or enough in general. Staff 5 and Bound dodge do the most damage, so you’re spamming these clunky rolls and leaps. You’re miles out in the open as you’re animation locked, so you just get ducked.

I’m projecting that the Thief meta wont change very much with DD coming out. I still believe D/P will rule over all.

We’ll have to wait and see, to be fair. Hopefully Anet reads the Thief section of their forums (if they remember it’s here) and makes the changes required. I’ve read a lot of people sharing my opinion on certain aspects so it’s nice to see I’m not alone in my beliefs.

(Everywhere I’ve typed “Duck”, remove the D and replace it with an F.)

As a Ghost Thief player reading this Thread

PU Mesmer loses to almost every heavy condition build from a Thief. Ghost Thief is also really good at it because they never see you so they can’t prep invis or a teleport. The only way a PU mesmer can survive is if they teleport away very quickly before I can place my 2nd Needle Trap. However, I’ve seen Shatter mesmers die from just a Steal and the 1st Needle Trap. Whether they’re spamming spells when they panic stealth or something… I dunno.

At the end of the day, if you’re being harassed by a Ghost Thief, drop a reveal trap on the floor and stand on it. Ghost Thief with no stealth is really crippling to us. If you don’t reveal us, we’ll follow you until you die or escape into a tower. Simply Steathing away doesn’t work because of the animation effects you make when you go invis are still visible when you’re invis… Kinda like how you can see and hear Infiltrators Arrow from an invis Thief. Also works with Shadow Shot, you can hear and see that too…

Anyway, I digress. It’s a pretty OP build but it certainly has its counters. The only way to Nerf it is to make certain abilities reveal you, like the Caltrops. You can’t make all conditions reveal you or else every Thief Build gets kittened ’cause you apply poison with your Auto swing chain… Kinda kittens over power builds like d/p or d/d.

The Traps themselves shouldn’t reveal… Trapper runes then become useless.

Right now, our biggest problem is Rangers. That kittenin’ AOE taunt, man. Still gets us when we’re invisible >_>. It’s gotten me killed 8 times. I’m counting.

Daendur.2357:

Perma stealth condi thieves are so useless. No one would ever die from a perma stealth thief, maybe not even a guard

Uhh… You’d be VERY surprised at how much damage Ghost Thieves can do. They’re in NO way useless. You can zerg dive and totally screw over sieges of 20+ Players single handedly. If not, you delay them until your zerg can bomb them. You can even wipe entire small-scale groups from capping towers.

Now, if you bump the number of Ghosts to two or even three; It’s game over for anyone or group you come in contact with. If you’ve got Teamspeak or something, coordinating a condition bomb on someone almost insta-kills them, identify the commander or group leader and single him out. 15 Stacks of Confusion = RIP.

You can’t knock the build, unless you see it from everyone’s point of view, not just yours. Just because you can deal with it, doesn’t mean everyone else can. My favourite experience is when me and my roaming partner zerg-dived a blob stacking might before they clashed with our blob. Reaper of Grenth hits 10 targets with Chill and Poison. Caltrop field Cripples everyone. The Traps can hit 3 people, ect. The list goes on. It really kittened them over.

The build is fun to play, hilarious to watch. I can’t count the number of times I’ve being whispered with either a rage comment + an instant block or someone accusing me of Hacking.

Here’s a video of a ‘confident’ Shout Guardian getting killed by my Ghost Thief

Yo dude,

I regularly stream the Ghost Thief build, perma invis killing and stomping. The enemy doesn’t even see you once if you do it correctly.

When people mock others who die to the build, they just don’t realise what they’re against. A smart ghost wont burn all their Condi on a high-cleansing target (Shout Warrior/Guardian, D/D Water attuned Ele, ect ect ect). They’d save the big damage things like Steal and one Trap, that’s more than enough to kill someone with 0 clear left. Plus, the fight lasts for as long as I want it too, since I can follow you with SB-5 whilst perma invis from Traps and Steal. If you stand your ground, I’ll just D/P 2+5 to stay around forever.

The counters to the build are as follows (In order of what kittens the build the most):

1. Reveal Trap [Costs 10 Supply to place]
2. Taunt from Ranger Pets
3. Standing in my Black Powder
4. That AOE Engi ability that reveals
5. Perma Chill (Longer cooldowns on Traps can kill you)
6. Sick’em from Rangers

This is the best build available for it (I’ve done A LOT of testing, being a human is almost a must):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAoaVlsMh2mYzTwvJwvGHIFl/Fuh5j3ABwCofyTYxA-TVyCABQoEEgTEAg6LCf/BDM/h8TAoJlfeq+DFHCASBAz0I-w

You can also watch the VoD from the stream I did today detailing the rotations and tactics used:

Twitch Automatically cuts it into hourly sections, this is part 1/4.

http://www.twitch.tv/meepeyplays/v/14214065

You’re build is a suboptimal version of the Ghost Thief.

Anywhere you can, run runes of the Trapper with Shadow Trap instead of Shadow Refuge. Refuge will get you killed 50% of the time when using it through Knockbacks + it puts giant bullseye on your location. Shadow Trap gives you an almost guaranteed activation, as you’re target is immobilized from the Needle Trap.

Here is my version of the build which I’ve had extremely good success with.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAoaVlsMh2mYzTw7JwvGHIFl/Fuh5j3ABwCofyTYxA-TVyCABQoEEgTEAg6LCf/BDM/1kyPPV/hiDBgEPBASBAz0I-w

The weapon Sigils need tweeking, but that’s about it for my build variant.

Cough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsulkt11rDw Cough

Thief can seriously dump condi’s on someone to kill them in less than 4 seconds.

The problem is sustained condition damage, not the conditions in the first place. Once they’re cleansed, you’ve gotta rely on your mobility and dodge skills until you’re cooldowns are ready.

Hey guys,

With the Daredevil spec being all out in the open now, this is going to open up a whole new can of builds.

In this thread, post your new build ideas, combos (you hope work), ect.

Lets see if we can come up with some stuff.

Some stuff I’m thinking about, is a nice CC chain.

Pistol 5 > [Bound] Dodgeroll (hopefully it works like Heartseeker, as it is the Leap Combo instigator) > Steal > Hook Strike > Fist Flurry / Palm Strike > Impact Strike [Elite] > Uppercut [Elite] > Finishing Blow [Elite]. It doesn’t necessarily need to finish the target, heck you could save Finishing Blow if the Window of Opportunity is long enough to still cast it later on in the fight.

If at any time the target breaks the CC Chain, then use Bandits Defense instantly to restart the chain.

It’s kind of a long shot, considering smart players will just TP away, but you never know when it comes to players in WvW

Cancel the heal and the trap is placed, heal goes on 3s cooldown. Trap still has its internal cooldown of 24s

Hello,

I run this build all the time, and I’ve pretty much min-maxed it.

Hide in Shadows, cause it stealths you,

Caltrops for more AOE damage (good for zerg diving),

Shadow Trap for more reliable stealth (Can’t get knocked out of an area like you can with Refuge) on shorter cooldown than Refuge or Blinding Powder.

No Trip Wire as it adds very little to the build,

Reaper of Grenth because more AOE condi. Poison for downing players easier whilst their mate struggles to pick them up.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAoaVlsMh2mYzTwvJwvGHIFl/Fuh5j3ABwCofyTYxA-TVyCABQoEEgTEAg6LCf/BDM/1kyPPV/hiDBgEPBASBAz0I-w

schloumou.3982:

My personal favorite part of the stream i watched is when you rage about revealtraps while running this build which is killing people without leaving stealth once.
Completely broken stuff in my opinion which hopefully will be gone soon. Enjoy it while it lasts but please stop saying stuff like : “Yeah i won this fight!” as if your opponent had a chance to deal with that.

I never “raged” about reveal traps. I was saying it was a cheeky move on their part purely for theatrics. And the second time I got reveal trapped, i “raged” (Again, Theatrics) about the Ranger and 1500 Longbow range, not the trap. I don’t mean to be rude, but it seems like you weren’t paying too much attention to the stream. In any other situation, that’s fine, but if you’re trying to call me out on things at least point at the things which actually happened.

Like it says in my Cons section, reveal traps counter the build 100%. I’m trying to make my stream entertaining for my viewers and being revealed isn’t going to help. I suppose it adds some sort of duress or pressure on me to perform whilst revealed which some people may find interesting to watch.

Completely broken? No, I disagree. If you’re smart and have (like most builds should) condition clear and mobility then you can easily just run away. But if you’re a complete potato then you’ll panic and die.

There’s a lot too it for every profession. But most builds that aren’t gimmicky can easily get away, people just don’t realise what’s happening so they don’t react or don’t react in time.

Also this build won’t be going away any time soon. It takes from different sources, trapper runes and traps, AOE Caltrops, Steal, ect. It’s very hard to nerf without gimping 10 other builds which aren’t “OP” or “Completely Broken”.

At the end of the day, it’s cheesy, gimmicky, fun to play and from the general reaction in my chat; fun to watch.

Apologies if I’ve come across as a bit of an (comment filter keeps changing the word to Kitten, think alternate name for a donkey-hole), I’m just trying to defend myself.

Quick note whilst I’m typing this novel of a comment; Tripwire trap doesn’t help the build very much in a surviving sense. Shadow Refuge is much better for long draw out fights, which most fights are with this build. Shadow Refuge is also much better for 1vX or 1vZerg fights as it allows you to stealth in tight spaces where a Heartseeker may accidentally tag someone and reveal you.

Cloudo.7315:

I have been running pretty much this build on and of since last update for giggles.. It gets quite silly after some time, cause its so cheese.. but can be quite fun form time to time aswell.

There is no need for the shadow refuge to keep 100% stealth uptime. I prefer tripwire instead to keep them longer in my caltrops and pressure striking for when tripwire interrupts (surprisingly quite often).

Yeah, I’m loving it as well. I’m going to try out Tripwire now. I used Shadow Refuge as a free long term stealth so i don’t need to worry about my timer for too long. It has a lot of uses, some downfalls too.

I’m going live on my stream right now, and I’ll be testing trip wire.

You can easily reach over 20k Backstabs in WvW. In SPvP you don’t have access to foods and other odds n sods…

You can however, easily stack 25 Might solo as a Thief. Infiltrator & Assassins Signet ( +5 Might per Signet Trait) + Shadow Trap with the Trapper Trait (It’s gives 15 Might if you walk on it and he activates it) for a free 750 Power (25 Stacks of Might). Scholar Runes + 10% Inc damage if you have a condition on you, + executioner… There’s a lot of things to boost strength.

Hey guys,

I’ve been running a fun & cheesy build in WvW that utilises the Thief’s main selling point: Being Invisible. Forever.

We can kill players whilst invisible and they’ll never see you enter the fight and they’ll never see you leave. This build will generate a lot of agro if you reveal yourself next to your dead enemy. You will get reported for hacking, as it REALLY does look like they’ve been killed by a Hacker.

The build uses AOE condition’s as they will NOT reveal you and Trapper Runes with 2x Needle Trap (Second trap through traits) for prolonged stealth and super speed to keep up with fleeing enemies.

This build works best if you are a Human Thief, as you have access to Reaper of Grenth, another AOE condition ability that will also not reaveal you. If you’re not Human, then use Thieve’s Guild.

Here’s a link to the build

Keep in mind, if the opponent has lots or consistent condition clear, then the fight will last a very long time, but in most cases you’ll be able to easily win 1vX fights with no problems.

Pros:

- Tanky
- Infinite Condition Clear
- Very High Condition Burst Damage
- Very Strong 1vX potential
- Very Fun to play
- Can ruin Zerg Balls
- Can slow down enemy Zerg Tower Captures
- 4/10 Difficulty Rating

Cons:

- Susceptible to Reveal Traps
- Heavy Condition Clear lowers DPS significantly
- AOE Bombs on your location when Zerg Diving
- When Revealed EVERYONE will focus you
- You will most likely get reported for hacking
- Not really challenging to play
- Low physical damage
- 100% Countered by Diamond Skin Elementalists & Shout Guardians

Some notes to remember when using the build:

- Always keep one eye on your Stealth Timer. Being invisible is the whole point.
- Careful when stacking Stealth through Black Powder + Heartseeker. Heartseeker can and will bring you out of Stealth if you accidentally clip someone.
- Dodge roll is now an offensive weapon. Make sure to drop the caltrops at their feet.
- Open with a Steal + Needle Trap -> Caltrops (Utility Skill) -> 2nd Needle Trap -> Dodge roll x2
- Use Reaper of Grenth if they start to run away (Refreshing Chill is OP)
- In a 1vX, target the one with the least Condition Clear
- Turn off Auto Attack by CRTL+Right Clicking your #1 Skills

If you have any questions, then please feel free to post a reply below.

Media

I unfortunately don’t have any Youtube footage to back the build but I frequently stream this build on my Twitch.tv channel:
http://www.twitch.tv/meepeyplays

Hey guys,

Just hoping to share a pretty cool WvW build I’ve been running. This build absolutely decimates other Condi-Builds in 1v1 fights, as well as a lot of meta builds. The build also has some decent 1vX potential if played smart and correct. Overall, in my personal opinion, this could be the most brokenly strong build I’ve ever seen for a Thief.

Beware, this build is cheese heavy and not for the faint of heart.

This build uses a P/D + Shortbow for our weaponry. Full Dire gear with Runes of the Trapper. Our Weapons have Corruption/Doom Sigils on the P/D and Doom/Endurance on the Shortbow.

We primarily use the Shortbow for long range pokes and poison fields or to escape with Infiltrator’s Arrow. For every other situation we use the P/D for our upfront burst and damage.

The build focuses on surprising your foe with an immense condi bomb which will kill most players within 3-4 Seconds if they do not react with condi clear. Squishier targets can die before you even shoot them with your pistol (E.G. Shatter Mesmers who insta stealth in a panic).

We use certain mechanics and interactions with Trapper Runes and the Trait “Trappers Respite” to gain a “free” Needle Trap + Super speed/invis from our heal. The trap shares the same cooldown as my regular Needle Trap (24 seconds), so it’s not something we can spam easily and must be used carefully.

Through the use of Steal, and Needle trap, we have successfully pinned the target to a location and they already have a huge amount of conditions on them. Then with both Spider and Skale venom, we use the Pistol 1 (Stealth Attack) to unload the rest of the conditions. This causes the target to die extremely quickly. Even if they do manage to clear them all, they will find themselves on low HP.

The Build Link (Please note, there are several viable options you may wish to take instead of what I have chosen, see below the link):

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqYVlsMh2mYRTwpJw/EHyEFPH6hdwvFjxHq3zpIAA-TFyCABA8gAAUfQ47P4p6PJqEMLlfScGAo4QAEAABYmlZZOzAH9oHdoDdoNzZe0Ze0ZWKAYmGB-w

Options:

Potent Posion -> Improvisation = Brings more survivability or Utility to a fight.

Venomous Aura -> Shadow Rejuvenation = A large stealth up-time means more HP Regen at the cost of cooldowns and sharing the venoms.

HOW TO PLAY:

This build excels when your opponent doesn’t see it coming. Try ambushing players on Sentry Points. Learn where you can steal up or down cliff sides for even sneakier ambushes. Remember that once a player has been killed by you, they now know what build you are running. Some may even change their build just for you.

Open with a Steal+Needle Trap combo. Begin casting the trap before you steal, so you arrive and the trap is placed instantly. This way they can NOT avoid it unless they dodge roll (If a target is running directly away from you, you can look sideways and then place the trap and steal. this makes the trap appear length ways and will trap them even if they are still running).
Activate your venoms (Only use Basilisk Venom if the target can use instant clears, like a shout Guardian. This prevents an instant clear and allows some of the damage to go through) and use Sneak attack. If they are melee, follow this up with a Shadow strike for distance. If they are ranged, stay in their face and attempt to CnD when revealed wares off. If you have Basilisk Venom available, you can activate it to close the gap. Shoot them once, wait whilst running, then shoot them again to gain the max duration. Easy CnD if the target is petrified.
Do not be afraid to switch to your shortbow as it will give you enhanced mobility. Trickshot will apply a stack of venom per target it bounces to. This is very good for spreading out the damage when defending a keep or tower against Ram or Cata users.

The main counters to this build are:

- Necro’s who bounce the Condi’s back,
- Thieves with a lot of stealth-up time (Shadows Embrace Condi Clear),
- Shout Guardians,
- Projectile Reflection
- and certain Ele builds.

However it is absolutely possible to beat these builds if played correctly.

Any questions then please do post below and I will try to answer anything directed towards the build or myself.

I regularly Steam this build over on Twitch.tv. Links below.

VIDEOS & MEDIA

Burst Potential Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsulkt11rDw&feature=youtu.be

http://www.twitch.tv/meepeyplays

If you’re hungry for more video’s on the build, then go to my previous streams section on my Twitch page.