Hahaha man, these forums, it’s like hotjoin but with words
Could you lend me a bit of that rope you both using to hang yourselves ?
Need to do so myself.
Taking initiative away > screwing thief in general (obviously)
PW is just a shard of the overall BAD state (read BAD BAD [size=120]BAD[/size]) state of the game, it’s obvious it was brought up to its actual level to counter the bunker meta, like S/D got buffed before, and ended up screwing every single none bunker spec on top of it.
Then it gets nerfed bcause it litteraly eats through anything that isn’t a bunker like it’s nothing. (Yea and please dont answer warrior, thanks)
Bunkering has to be toned down.
Meanwhile, burst has to be toned down. Power or condi.
Both have to happen at the same time.
Otherwise, the sad truth is, PW specs and alike are needed in the current state of the game otherwise there is no stopping the bunkers or warriors.
Freaking snake eating its tail.
Personally, I think it’s because of the evade frames it gives. I would be okay with the damage if I could turn around and stun/fear/KB the thief in the face to prevent it.
The skill does a whole bunch of stuff- It does good damage, has evasion frames, and stuns. I think one of those needs to get trimmed down.
And it cleaves. Moreover, it also has a tiny reach behind the char.
So, positionning yourself behind to setup a counter will just get you in pieces.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s not dumber than auto rotating blurred frenzy and such.
Why so much hate for legit counterplay… ?
No
Why ?
Because the stun cast part of the skill is the actual 1/4 second window where you can actually try to setup a counter.
edit – said before me
Make it pink please ?
Or rainbow
In GW1 you had 4 types of bows.
The flatbow allowed the longest reach and one of the shortest fire rate, but on the other hand you shot your arrows in an arc.
In pvp any smart opponent would straf dodge a ranger using flatbow. This is where you could bring RTW which was a 24s preparation which made your arrows fly twice as fast and in the case of the flatbow, in a straight line instead of an arc (at first it also gave added damage but that got removed in pvp).
Since there were other favored preparation (mainly apply poison) and only one could be used at a time, you had to make a choice.
> Long range with fast fire rate and condition pressure but poor accuracy
> Long range with fast fire rate and great accuracy (good for interrupts) but no poison pressureMaking choices
Something that tends to be forgotten in this game where everyone complains soon as they notice they can’t have everything, and leads to broken designs like the current warrior.
If anything, bring more crucial choices like the longbow’s pros and cons into the game, instead of “fixing it” so it makes everything better than other weapons sets.
Dude, no one used flatbow outside of Read the Wind pewpew turret builds in pvp/gvg. Everyone used Recurve in cripshot builds because it hit without fail with a few using longbow on some gvg maps for the extra range.
You’re also comparing this game to one where rangers were 100% bow use, there were very few if any gap closers, and you had to stop moving to use skills. Someone could sidestep and troll a ranger all day but then they also wouldn’t be accomplishing anything else.
I know thanks, you missed my point entirely.
In GW1 you had 4 types of bows.
The flatbow allowed the longest reach and one of the shortest fire rate, but on the other hand you shot your arrows in an arc.
In pvp any smart opponent would straf dodge a ranger using flatbow. This is where you could bring RTW which was a 24s preparation which made your arrows fly twice as fast and in the case of the flatbow, in a straight line instead of an arc (at first it also gave added damage but that got removed in pvp).
Since there were other favored preparation (mainly apply poison) and only one could be used at a time, you had to make a choice.
> Long range with fast fire rate and condition pressure but poor accuracy
> Long range with fast fire rate and great accuracy (good for interrupts) but no poison pressure
Making choices
Something that tends to be forgotten in this game where everyone complains soon as they notice they can’t have everything, and leads to broken designs like the current warrior.
If anything, bring more crucial choices like the longbow’s pros and cons into the game, instead of “fixing it” so it makes everything better than other weapons sets.
This thread is from an other age.
The current thief fotm revolves around S/P, crit/trick, 2 > 3333 > 4 > whichever shadowtep > 33333 and 3333, and in some other cases 3333.
Also, if you need to play defensively, don’t forget 3333.
Please teach me how to have enough initiative to use Pistol Whip multiple times (more than three times) in a row; especially without hitting anyone with it, because all they need to do is to not stand next to you while you’re spamming 3. The only thing you’ll land while spamming 3 is the first half of your first Pistol Whip. Unless the player you’re attacking is afk, of course.
Do i really need to explain this to you ?
a/ It cleaves, and even better, it actually has a bit of reach BEHIND the thief
b/ 2 : Immob
c/ Devourer venom
d/ Haste / Critical Haste
e/ Enemy moves > steal / infiltrator signet
f/ 15ini + 1/s + 1/10s + 1/5s + 3/steal (21s)
g/ Use your last living brain cell to wait one or two second before the next 3
h/ You foe is actually here to fight you, strangely enough many of them need to be next to you to do that
i/ 3 times in a row without a single pause (nor a thought) is already A LOT
j/ I dont care, first comes the l2p, then comes the nerf.
He’s a bit angry but i do agree with Mr.Big about the immob part.
About the stun itself he’s referring to how it’s used as res counter. Most dedicated rezzers already secure the rez before they get in and that includes stability most of the time.
PW’s main issue comes from how it is a way too spammable multitool, it has to be fixed at the very least both of you agree on that point and i’m kinda relieved to see that, i’m already tired of all the randoms who’s name i never saw going all /ego on me because they 333’d my face down.
This thread is from an other age.
The current thief fotm revolves around S/P, crit/trick, 2 > 3333 > 4 > whichever shadowtep > 33333 and 3333, and in some other cases 3333.
Also, if you need to play defensively, don’t forget 3333.
Since the rank chests aren’t retroactive, that maybe because they consider the past reward chests to be valuable.
Which could mean that every “veteran” pvper may get to keep all the skins he earned into the pvp locker, for pve use ?
So I just got a steel mining pick from a rank up chest. Why are you giving me this garbage when I want to SPvP? There is no mining in SPvP maps so why would I need a mining pick? I already miss the excitement of getting new gear every hard earned level.
What rank are you ?
Maybe you got a “lower rank” reward which would suit a low level pve char.
I know people dont want “pve rewards” "but as it is many people have asked for valuable rewards, so those are necesseraly pve related.
Also, the excitement you speak of was very relative considering it would take you months to cross the next 10 levels past ~50
Maybe they aren’t done with the skyfarmer incident and once they are done kicking evey farmer out of the game they will make it retroactive…
v_v
It should be retroactive right ? Why not ?
Dunno, patch day, QQ day, i usually don’t fall for that but this time got the better of me…
They’re trying to push players into playing all aspects of their game. I understand that and those that WvW and sPvP will be happy, but strictly sPvP players have been shafted.
What would you strictly sPvP players want for rewards? Because there is no gear progression in sPvP, there cannot be gear rewards other than cosmetics – and from what I gather nobody here gives a kitten about it. So, leaderboards that work, and what else?
My freaking 11 chests ? _
Does it mean you only got one chest… ? No chest for 5 – 10 – 15 – 20 – 25 – 30 – 35 and 40 ?
I only got 1 chest upon achieving rank 45.
I was actually in a weird situation yesterday when I was only 1000 rank points away from rank 45. I felt that I had to stop queuing because I did not want to rank up before the update. I stopped queuing because if I gained another rank before the update, that rank would not be rewarded.
I think we should be rewarded for the ranks we obtained previously. Possibly have a bonus chest come up during the daily reset (mildly resembling what they do for WvW ranks).
WvW ranks are a static 5000 WXP each rank. PvP rank get’s harder to obtain every 10 ranks. If they do retroactively reward rank chests, I hope they don’t do it exactly like WvW where you get a bonus chest on rank up. I am rank 45 right now and I don’t think I will every get to rank 90. Those tomes of knowledge are a great way to level up my characters for WvW and right now I feel like I just lost 45 levels.
I cant kittening believe this.
So i’m at r58, that means i’m screwed with 11 chests.
I hope we’re wrong somewhere otherwise this is becoming pathetic.
Does it mean you only got one chest… ? No chest for 5 – 10 – 15 – 20 – 25 – 30 – 35 and 40 ?
That’s not “screwed” it’s kinda clunky that’s all, in the end everyone gets it.
What’s inside the chests on the other hand…
Really ?
People sitting at r70+ are going to be so happy.
How does one retrieve those ? I’m at rank 58 but no chest or anything.
To kill a healing signet warrior using a glass spec (berserker) you need to constantly stick to him otherwise every single second spent not doing it is a big portion of what you achieved negated through passive healing.
As a close ranged spec that means sticking up to his face. While doing so you take evry risks to eat a single attack from him which can instantly revert the situation and give him the upper hand.
When you’ve been dps’ing the guy since 10sec and he takes the upper hand because he landed ONE hit, people are right when they wonder why bunker dps is better on glass dps than glass dps is on them.
Especially considering how that one hit can be extremely easy to place (huge burning circle of death e.g)
Add to this zerk stance + double endure pain forcing you to do nothing but go away for the entire duration unless you like to throw your skills at nothing just for the beauty of it, forced to give the guy 10s of huge passive healing, it becomes ludicrous.
No it’s not impossible to beat a war, many of us do it on a regular basis, it’s just plain unfair, way too easily punitive, unsatisfying, and long. Well at least it’s not boring since you can’t allow yourself to do any single mistake.
That said warriors aren’t the only ones, some engies and necro specs are about as stupid. Warriors are just the worst offenders.
And yes that’s only one aspect of the general balance issue – but it’s a big one.
What else, let’s just swallow and move on once again, i guess.
What’s up with that new trend, threads about uninterruptible thieves popping everywhere like it’s some kind of nerf thieves spring.
If you people are so concerned about the state of interrupts in GW2, ask yourself first if stability uptime is not a bit to high and easily accessible on some specs. Ask yourself if many if not most devastating attacks, single target or AoE, should really be instant, i.e uninterruptible.
Expressing your concern about the lack of penalty ensuing a successful interrupt on a thief skill without even mentionning how this is actually an issue related to interrupts in general against every class, let alone a few skills here and there, feels extremely biased and narrow minded to me.
I could understand the “no retroactiv money for you” attitude considering how it may have been bad for the game’s economics on a scale larger than just pvp.
Then there was the 2x reward for soloQ and 3x for TQ.
Well, no retroactive rewards again.
As it looked more like a bonus than an actual balance i could deal with it, even though, well, ok, let’s move on.
But this ?
I don’t understand.
Ranks are a pvp only currency, where in the world would it be hurtful for the game not to say screw you no retroactive stuff this time again ?
Should i really shove my 6k games up my little cat and say forget it, i just lost thousands of rank points just because, hey look there’s something behind you /run ?
Is there a logical explanation that eludes me ? Would it be bad for the game’s economics ?
Anet ? Anyone ?
Same happened with AB a whiiile ago, got to rank 12 under the old reward system – and let me tell you it took a HUGE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF TIME (2k hours or so) considering i only did it through pvp, not by farming pve speedruns -
Then AB got updated, rewards had a massive boost to them plus other means to get faction XP were introduced.
Well, same thing all over again.
Not happy.
- I main Thief, d/p venom/power hybrid actually.
- As for scenarios, if you mean encounters, then of course it can be mostly broken during 1v1s.
Since this isn’t really relevant, i’d like to say instead that it’s especially broken against any class that rely on other means than /facetank to control an encounter.
The evade side of the skill negates any other defensive means than endure pain/block and such. Keep in mind that evading is the most powerfull defensive tool behind invulnerability. From my point of view : stand in black powder, 333 like a boss, evade the blinds .
- Compared to other classes, it’s right next to endure pain + berserker stance, and i support the other people in here who fear you’d be thinking about tweaking pistol whip before even thinking about toning down all the passive /facetanking that is plaguing pvp nowadays.
The difference lies mostly in movement, since fighting this spec requires clever movement and positionning, like against endure pain /zerk stance wars, a good S/P thief will hunt you using shadowsteps, while a good warrior will immobilize or cripple you in order to prevent you from stepping back waiting for the stances to fade.
But all in all it ends up the same, different means, same ending.
I could go on a lot more on the subject, i’ll just say that multitool offensive+defensive skills (all in one if you prefer, be it a built in skill spec or supported by passive buffs or traits behind)) requiring no active player management will always be detrimental for pvp.
- To tweak the skill i would either :
> Halve the sword strikes. On one hand the skill deals less damage and the evade frame is shorter, allowing for a better counter reaction before the next one comes.
On the other hand, the S/P thief gets to land another stun much faster, granted he manages his initiative properly (since the channel gets shorten, thats a few 0.x seconds less to recover initiative while being untouchable).
> Remove the evade frames, the second part of the skill would give the thief 1 second stability + protection instead. This way you allow direct counters while not making the thief a standing fleefleefleefleeflee sugar turret.
Please also consider that the set already has access to black powder. If the player running the spec truly needs to set a defense before attacking, the tools are there to be used. BP+shadowstep > land on your opponent’s feet, devour venom to fix him in the blind field and 33333333. You don’t need to make us invincible on top of that while doing so.
And please, pistol whip is not the only broken /facetank skill out there.
My probably not so perfect 2 cents ~
Thank you !
(edited by muscarine.5136)
A visual hint like changing the portion of your red bar (bubble) that will disappear to gray (or green or whatever), showing where you would stand at the end of the ticks would actually be a great feature imo.
I like the idea.
Man these topics are months late.
In 3 months from now, people will start crying at how S/P is broken but the actual thieves players will have moved on to something better way before that.
It feels weird to see all these threads, it’s like an afflux of new people to the forums only refilling the same old river of tears, countered by the same old unexperienced bad arguments.
I guess that’s WvW for you.
I have no intentions of playing much D/P. I’d rather get good fights in with my S/P anti-meta build and counter the cheese.
Come on. Come on. Please ? Seriously ?
come on.
S/P
3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
Please.
These forums.
nerf ninja nurse plx
That’s called being a game designer, not a lead dev.
Hello
This is what i’ve been rolling since a while after december the 10th.
Started with venom share, eventually dropped that for better survival.
If you’re interested try adapting it for WvW purpose ?
To sum up it revolves around might stacking, heavy leech while CC your opponent and press him into your smoke field, using HS>backstab at the last second of the field>stealth. If you like using every single skill of a weapon set then this is for you too.
Most problematic issue i’d see in a WvW environment would be no shortbow, i can see where it’d hurt your mobility.
What MrBig says.
I like MrBig.
Except when he pushes for s/p buff.
But nobody’s perfect.
Man, as a thief myself i was glad pistol whip was out of pvp a few monthes afters launch, now it’s back, wait a bit for all the kool kids to jump in, and get ready for some hardcore perma evade tears.
We already lose 1+ second for using a stealth based attack that fails to apply.
Attack animation > aftercast > repositionning is what it’s called.
Yea, about this.
Wasn’t there a statement by the dev team at some point, like litteraly monthes ago, where they said they were looking into a way to reduce AoE effectiveness ?
Between spammable large AoEs, cleave and AIs, single target damage is becoming less and less usefull.
You can queue for all 3 spvp types by yourself. No waits for hot join and more players per match. Team Arena has the best rewards but has a queue. Can you name one reason why anyone would bother with Solo Arena? Why is it even there?
I can answer that.
Team arena and solo arena both use a matchmaker to put players against others of similar skill level.
If you’re playing with four friends, using a voip program, you’ll be very, very efficient. If you choose to play by yourself on a team with strangers, you’ll be much, much less skilled in the eyes of the matchmaker.
Back when there was only one ranked queue, it was impossible to play a game with friends and then join solo later, or the other way around. The difference in your matchmaker level would just be too great to give you any semblance of a decent match.
With two queues, you can choose to play as a team one night and then play by yourself the next night, with a separate matchmaker rating for each queue.
Good sum up, thanks.
Details…
If you’re used to fight specific builds you should know what might come next, asura or not…
Your computer says your go from there >>> to there.
Server says what ? I didn’t understand, stay there.
You used your ability but got ported back to where you were. Happened sometimes even with heartseeker.
walk away… -_-
Hun hun, summon your warrior ~
If the area is large enough so you cankeep your distance, and patiently get in / get out, you may slowly wear them out, although even a 5% hp’d engi is still very hard to burst down.
Otherwise, in a close area, yea, walk away. Fighting against the camera while being showered with AoE (and FX) doesn’t help either.
As a d/p venom thief
- Nade engies (too), because nadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenadenade gg
Doesn’t help they are also ultra resistant.
- Some specs relying a lot on AIs, although not impossible to beat, because of hitbox blocking, instant heatseeking while leaving stealth, and because their owner only has to focus on defense. And because if you focus on clearing out the mess you either die to the rest of it, or they get instantly respawned anyway.
- Some hybrid bunker specs wich can deal way too much damage considering their tankiness. Yea i’m still aiming at engies here. Some warriors and necros too.
You have to get involved in a looong fight, slowly wearing them out, while even the most slightly mistake on your part will allow them to fully heal back to 100 / kill you in one chain.
- Overall
Engies
Necros
Warriors
I’m surprised there’s like 0 QQ about engies on the forums, so i keep telling myself i maybe just need to get better…
(edited by muscarine.5136)
I know this is a bug and should definitely be fixed, but I’ve played over a thousand tournament games and not once have I encountered this bug changing the outcome of the match.
Are you sure we’re not blowing this out of proportion? Obviously this bug has been around for a very long time and now that it’s more widely known I’m sure more people will attempt to exploit it. To which people could just chill by their gate/treb and “defend” it before the start of the game.
It’s not a plague yet, but let’s say it’s becoming a bit more popular every day.
Since your rank is still quite high, you’re probably teamed with very low ranks.
The team you’re up against may be made of players of much lower rank than yours, but still higher than your teammates.
MMR total is the same, but individually, it means you get a much harder “punishment” for losing this match than your teammates, because the system just says you lost against much weaker opponents.
Maybe.
I never managed to enjoy HoH in gw1 except with desperate pugs like me (because build wars : no sins allowed, and i persisted on playing my sin).
So eventually, never reached even bambi, quit before that, i stayed in RA.
There was no bambi in RA.
But there is no reason to complain, if i wanted my bambi, i should have joined the wagon and play an /authorized build.
Still, plenty of fun, just not as many cool features as you can get in HA. Or slower.
Well, it’s the same here.
Find a team or deal with “slower” ranking through soloQ.
It was most probably instantly reapplied.
At first glance it seems a good trait to give you an edge against condition bursts.
Now, conditions are so easy to reapply that the trait might as well only give you regen once you reach 75% hp, you wouldn’t even notice the difference.
Honestly, i do not see what makes the pro in gw2 so pro. Game is easy enough to play. Perhaps team coordination but individual skill is not that high because the skill ceiling is rather low
Used to be a time where i’d have answered :
Builds and classes aren’t hard to use, the difference comes from timing your attacks and counters, clever positionning… etc
Now it all comes down to whoever has the most hard hitting on demand AoEs or AIs to do the attacking part for you while you can safely and peacefully focus on maintaining yourself alive.
Almost totally negating the need to position or “aim”.
I thought devs said they were looking for a way to reduce AoE effectivness litteraly months ago.
Still waiting for that to even start to happen.
Single target attacks are in such a bad position considering you have to track your ever evading/bumping/stunning/blocking target, fighting against the camera in a crippling/freezing/blinding/life sucking landmine while being showered with death by heatseeking/hitbox blocking/instant reaction AIs.
Why in the world don’t we just start at the little cat starting point by toning down AoEs effectivness and AI reliance… ?
I know some of you will say the issue comes from the game mode, but even out of this the issues will persist.
I personnaly think Eles are actually a good example of balance.
Doesn’t mean they don’t need tweaking/bug fixes/optimization and such., but balanced as in not overpowered, and fair skill/efficiency ratio.
If anything, most classes/builds fotm’ing rampage through pvp need to be toned downed on par with them.
Not the contrary.
No power creep.
edit – on a side note, this comment is excluding instant cast abilites which are an abomination when they involve burst.
(edited by muscarine.5136)
To sum up, combat is mostly fun overall, with variation, until i meet an engineer.
Then it just becomes a blurry mess filled with smoke, explosions, conditions, cat like lives, and circles runs.
Ok I will start by saying the patch wasn’t to bad we have some options the main negative thing that came due to the patch was they broke sword. The is now no reason to equip sword main hand over a dagger atm.
This is so wrong.
Look, IR got badly nerfed it’s true, but sword is still very efficient.
Wait a bit and you’ll see how this is turning to a “new” S/P trend.