@nightblood
The problem with ac buffing in stealth is that it further frontloads SA as the premier option for Thief defense. Whereas, we need to be pushing for better overall options in Acro.
O.K. but my stance still holds on the crit from a heavy class on some giant weapon should pretty much destroy a thief in one blow.
Once again, Mighty blow is hard to land on a thief, they are fast, they move quick. Mighty blow is pretty telegrpahed in nature. (All that makes a ton of sense, you should be good at evasion, it should be hard to hit you with something that big and with that animation to warn you of it coming so you can use evasion to get out of the way) The fact that the crit from that mighty blow on a guard running 2.3k damage only does 4K damage to you guys?
Maybe a debuf to ac on the stealth trait line w/ a buff while in stealth.
I know I keep hearing from many and all people “But that is a heavy class, you should be slow, you should have a hard time catching thieves, should it be any other way? If you want to play something different then play a lighter class.” This is the constant I hear all the time about guards.
And while I dont want to agree with them they are right. The reason I dont want to agree is just in that, when I do catch you, and I land some big blast like mighty blow it doesnt do enough damage in one hit to counter the speed/mobility/stealth/damage ratio thieves can deliver. So if the above of heavy class definition exists and is true, then the times it does land, the lighter class should be downed or exceptionally close to downed in that one hit.
I mean I can hit a zerk necro for almost 8k at times with that same mighty blow, you guys take far less damage when that crits and have far more ability to evade. The evasion part I understand, but if it does hit and crit, you should be very close to death.
Like:
-Backstab damage being something that scares people (people other than glass cannons)
-The 1200 range on cluster bomb
-I’d like to be able to use stealth in pvp in an effective way (meaning be able to invest a bit in SA for things like d/d thief without gimping my team or myself)
-Not getting 1 shot by clases that stack might and tankiness but get guaranteed crits via traits and sigils to take 5k hp from an auto attack (of all things)
-Not having our only reliable and cosistent condi removal be tied to stealth (so basically more defense against condi outside of SA)Feel free to add to the list things you’d like to see the thief get back or get buffed in. WITHIN REASON and please no rage comments, this is a discussion to provide some contructive feedback for buffs that thief could use.
Believe it or not, I agree with this completely. Ive been analyzing thieves and trying to figure out why they are broken in this game.
And lets take Mighty Blow from a guardian running hammer. Its hard to land on a thief (as it should be), but when it does, it crits for 4-5K at best with a guardian running a significant amount of power while the thief is revealed.
Mighty blow should be a one shot from a guard running 2.3k power and ascended gear to a thief not in stealth if they land it.
In other words, while not in stealth you should take a significant ac hit and have all of the above.
And an ac buff while in stealth to the upper side of medium armor or lower side of heavy.
Yes and no, I know that thief was out there. EBG blue Keep on SoS side this weekend.
When I fought him, it was stealth, rapid fire from stealth and poison just wrecking my heals. But then again, I did just rebuild my guard at the time in something completely different than the past.
Yeah, the biggest thing Ive learned as a guard is get away from the meta builds in this game. Ive rebuilt my guard so many times its unreal, right now I like where he is (Im not sharing his build sorry) but I think the standard medi is too squishy and the bunker doesnt do enough damage. Ive been doing great 1v1 and even 1v5 at times (I can wreck someone before going down myself.) I just brought him in sPvP recently and hes doing pretty awesome there. It generally requires a response of 2 to 3 people from the other side to tie me up.
So, feel free to go off the beaten path with guard, there is a lot of potential there to not stay locked into a certain build.
I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.
Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.
That is going to make people scream OP.
*Noobs.
Yeah I think thats the point, a group of ten noobs should be able to put a stop to that and its likely the toxic reference was due to that bully nature.
And yes, I am on this forum because I like hunting you guys and studying your class mechanics to counter it, though P/D seems to be an issue as of late.
Issues?? Just walk away imo just like you would with PU mesmer. I have seen zergs falling for the necro spectral walk,war stances and actually chased him,zergs are usually dumb and promote lesser skilled players. I run both s/d and p/d in wvw with two different chars, I prefer trap thief because it makes for the damage and mobility boost it gives for less sustain.
Negating Sneak Attack is so easy as well,usually if you lose to traditional p/d with krait rune that is l2p,perplexity is another thing tough,just watch for your surroundings any damage focus thief will take advantage of it don’t forget it’s the roguish archetype.
Issues? Nah not really, I just mained a staff ele when coming back to gw2 and well you know the relationship of thief to staff ele. Poor little staff ele coming into WvW for the first time and hey look there is a nice thief. Insta death.
Plus I say that hunt thing all in fun. While I do like to hunt you guys, if I see you, Im coming, its due to what I see you accomplish. Therefore I want to fight that. I generally go after what I see do the best with some other counter to it so I theorize and change my builds constantly to play the game. Much like you do. Its a challenge.
Yeah actually I agree with this.
Why take a good D/D cele ele or good P/D thief out of the game, but instead create a good counter to it in ALL other classes but not a guaranteed counter.
Im personally not for seeing condi guards, but better protection from condi in guards, like renewed focus renewing all utility skills as well as virtues.
I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.
Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.
That is going to make people scream OP.
*Noobs.
Yeah I think thats the point, a group of ten noobs should be able to put a stop to that and its likely the toxic reference was due to that bully nature.
And yes, I am on this forum because I like hunting you guys and studying your class mechanics to counter it, though P/D seems to be an issue as of late.
I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.
Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.
That is going to make people scream OP.
From playing a medi guard, the biggest downfall of that build is no sustain. You use skills to stay alive, not hp or armor. Most run about 2600 ac at best and 12k hp(in WvW) and a little higher in sPvP. They have long cool downs on their blocks and at most 2 protections to reduce damage. Not to mention they are telegraphed as all out.
With that said, once on cool down, the normal meta medi guard is a sitting duck waiting to be blown up.
So keep hard pressure and put their skills on CD and then blow them up. Patience will win against the standard meta medi build.
This fact forced me to rethink the medi guard build and change it up pretty drastically.
And well Im not big on sharing builds (that causes nerfs), but my health is drastically improved, I have better CC’s and likely more consistent sustained damage with slightly less burst capability (though its still a pretty significant burst that after I soften people up it will eat them).
Most thieves that lost to me when I ran meta were the ones who thought they would just come in a thief me right off the bat. The smart ones just kite close, wait my skills out, and then burst me down.
Not just escaping abilities, Im use those as examples. Im looking for more viability and sustain in the greater odds of what I see everyday. Of which, stuns on block are a perfect combination with the guardian blocks.
In other words, I dont have as much mobility, but I have enough CC’s to do something else and your run away/kite card is just not as viable as it used to be. 1v4 out of no where, I can reset that fight fairly quick with shelter causing stun on each of its blocks.
Likely Ill be switching to warrior for roaming myself.
Its quite known that the lack of CC’s is a very big weakness on a Medi Guard as well as the ability to just run away from them because they cant catch you. Guard is my favorite class to play and even other guards I generally take their head off fairly quickly. Even from a perspective of being a medi guard, I find fighting others guards is so much easier of a fight.
Scepter does help with its one imob which is great as it defies stability.
Of which if you want to show me a video of any guard being able to find their way out of overwhelming odds to that of thieves, eles, mesmers or warriors. Ill happily resign my point and take the blame myself.
Well yeah 1v1.
And even 1v2 at times depending on the class. But roaming solo in WvW is almost never 1v1 or even 1v2 in upper tiers. In lower tiers possibly.
What Im noticing is ele’s being able to disengage in overwhelming fights and jet off, nike warriors enduring pain and nikeing away from these situations,and of course thieves and mesmers having stealth and misdirection to find their way out of overwhleming odds or even fight in overwhelming odds.
Guardians have none of that. Once you commit, you commit until death, and if 3 more people walk up on that fight. Its over.
If this were a 1v1 game I would have no complaints at all, but its not anywhere in the game. And well having shelter have an aoe stun for disengage, a stun on range to keep people from running away and resetting the fight while you are waiting on cool downs. Its needed.
And I think the stun on block (No not every block some CD in there to not make medi guards invincible.) fits the medi guard due to its blocking ability and times of blocks. If I could fit a stun in there somewhere, I can do ten times better getting out of tough situations, and be more viable in overwhelming odds.
Yeah dueling in OS were great, running around WvW maps solo, you have no where to go. The energy because I dont like wasting sigils on energy. Im likely going back to mes to run solo which I dont want to do, because I like guard. I just feel like I need one more thing and that stun on block I feel would really make the medi guard a good solo roamer.
(edited by nightblood.7910)
Im not going to go into the why every other class’s solo mechanics need to be nerfed. Im fine with thief stealth and even cele ele’s next to impossible to kill health regen.
I just want a stun on block and more vigor on crit to make medi guards more viable solo.
Well one its not crit damage (unless arcane power then the first 5 of the meteors), so more like 2k x 24 if a dodge is not used and thats distributed. Dont get me wrong damage yes, but I would happily give up some of the damage for knockdowns on that skill.
As far as an ele I Play it pretty much exclusively in gw2 and did so in gw1. And Im working on a D/D set up for those solo moments, but with that said, we tend to discuss something as OP. Well Theives are entirely OP. Rangers are OP. Eles have been nerfed down to not be OP.
We discuss OP as a bad thing, everything else is OP so why cant ele’s be?
Where is the knockdowns and Interrupts that meteor shower caused that was in GW1?
Ele’s pretty much have two places now in WvW. In the middle of a zerg and defending keeps.
Either way it puts Meteor shower as a useful tool, but it should have knockdowns and should waste a stability utility out of whoever is in it.
There are skills that combat the knockdown. Why does anet insist on making this a useless class?